Mark, I received your book “Favorite ways to train your bird dog”. It’s awesome, simple and easy. I’ve trained 3 dogs over the years for myself and am training a pup now. Over the years I’ve purchased every conceivable book and video on training pointing dogs and I’ve found myself taking little snibits and pieces from each to use to train my dogs. Your book is the first that I would use in its entirely to work with my dogs. It’s just about exactly what I do. Thank you!
This was great info....I moved to the Dakota's jus for the wild birds....I literally turn pups out and they develop over a period of time....Wild birds train them....I mainly focus on yard work n benching them.....God Bless
Thank you so much. To be honest, the Brittany was causing me to pull my hair out but I think that’s what makes the video so powerful. All dogs won’t point the second or third or even 20th bird that they’re exposed to. But if you stick with it and give them enough opportunities, their pointing instinct should kick in.
Mark- This video was excellent. Probably the best I have found. Excellent explanations about the techniques to simulate wild birds. Thanks. Best regards.
Great video and Ive watched a lot over the last few weeks! Very well delivered. Question for you. Do you have multiple launchers or just one? And if just one what are you doing to manage the dog in between launches, just have someone take the dog out of view and set the launcher in a different place?
Thats awesome. I have a 5 mo. Griffon pointer and he points at all kinds of things because he doesn’t know yet. Bout to get him on the quails in my yard.
Wow!!! This is going to be so much easier than I thought. I have been so pressed about starting my 9 month old lab. He’s got good drive like really high drive so I know he will do good!! This is my first bird dog and I’m super excited but I’m taking my time
Very cool! I have a Boykin Spaniel. She’s a flushing dog by nature. But I took her out (with no training) to hunt pen raised quail. She started out great. But when she learned she couldn’t catch the birds she started flash pointing them. But she would not stay on point or flush.
That's interesting. I've heard of labs that are not from "pointing lab" strains point occasionally too. My niece is engaged to a farmer with an Australian Shepherd. I think that his dog would point with a similar introduction to birds too.
Mark. I love your video and your methods. I can’t wait to implement these strategies with my new GWP pup. How frequently can you do the pointing sessions with the launchers.? Can you go every day or is 2-3 times a week more optimal?
@@jeremymoeller4797 With a dog that hasn’t begun pointing, daily workouts with a few birds is okay, but as they start to point, I normally have fewer workouts (with birds) per week. You can still work your dog but focus on other things like turning with you and coming to you.
Thanks. I have one that I'll be uploading in a day or two that showcases a few dogs from my local Quail Forever chapter taken at one of their four yearly fun trials, but I want to video my young pointer learning whoa from start to finish in a couple of months. If there's interest, I might do a force fetch video too filmed start to finish with one dog so that you can actually see what can happen with some dogs.
@@Payton1221 would love to see more I have an 11 week old GSP and just started bird introduction. I found your video easy to understand from a owner’s point of view. I will definitely be sharing your videos. Thank You
Love your videos. I think your training methods suit my style very well and make a lot of sense. I have ha Labs before but will be getting my first pointing dog this spring. I understand that each dog is different but on average how many reps of pointing and letting dogs chase do you begin to ask for steadiness? I understand that whoa needs to be taught in the yard first and I love your method of heel and whoa progressing though the buddy stick and check cord to teach that.
Every dog is different, but if your desire is to have a truly steady dog (normally defined as one that stands while you flush, continues to stand while the bird takes WING, and stands even after you've SHOT your gun, i.e., steady to WING & SHOT), I wouldn't even begin to take the dog's chase away until the dog has hunted one full season.
@@fishingwithmike7079 I use homers and rollers so that they do return, and I usually buy mine on craigslist or from people that I’ve bought from on craigslist in the past.
Thank you for this video. I think it’s the coolest method I’ve seen. Could a dog think that chasing the bird is the reward? That would mean that releasing it when they creep in would actually reward the movement. Is this ever a problem with some dogs? I will begin training my first dog soon and am trying to decide the methods I want to use. Thanks again for this good content!
There are a few things that we can do to make chasing less fun, but I never attempt it until after dozens and dozens of bird contacts. The Brittany in the video is a great example. He immediately enjoyed chasing, but after many birds, his pointing instinct took over. What I alluded to in the video but purposefully didn't mention was the whoa command. After a dog will point and hold for 30 seconds or so and after they've had one season of hunting and just enjoying the hunting experience, that's when I whoa break them and I overlay the remote training collar so I can enforce staunchness, or if they do decide to chase, I can quickly stop them to where they learn that it's just better to remain pointed.
Absolutely! I just got a pointing lab in a week ago for the trained retrieve, and I will be working her on weekends with pigeons and launchers for that very purpose.
Erik, I've not conducted any seminars, but I've worked with a lot of owners one on one, and I used to train for the public. I live in Southern Indiana just across the river from Louisville KY.
Like your videos very much . I have a 8 month old gsp out of grouse buster lines. Curious if we could get a video explaining launchers , pigeons, and possibly coop ideas. Thanks mike Roy Cincinnati
Very informative video. I just got my first bird dog , a WPG, and cannot wait to get him trained up and ready to bird hunt. Ill be training in a similar habitat here in Virginia to your training area.
Thanks William. Pigeons, launchers, and a solid, Solid, SOLID whoa foundation with the ecollar overlaid is a very useful combination for this type of work!
Books are $20 and that includes shipping in the continental United States. If you are interested, I can send you a request for the money on Venmo or PayPal or you can send me a check. Let me know if you want to proceed.
Hi I really enjoyed this video and like the technique. I’m completely new to this though and was wondering about your launcher. Is that a fake bird coming out every time? Or are they live birds? What launcher are you using? Thanks!
I'm using rollers. They'll home some but just not as far from their coop as an actual homing pigeon. And they're smaller too. If you'll watch my Steady To Wing & Shot video, at the end of it I show that launcher AND I'm actually going to give one away to a subscriber at the end of this year. Check out that video for more info on the random drawing.
Books are $20. I can either request the money from you via PayPal or you can send me a check. Email me at payton1221@yahoo.com with how you want to proceed. Thanks in advance!
Mark- this is the best content I have found online. I wanted to buy your book, but they are out of stock on Amazon. Do you have a way to get them? Also, please post more content. I would appreciate it and would really like to ask more questions.
Thanks for the kind words. I have more books being printed now. Email me at payton1221@yahoo.com and when they're available, I'll send you a "money request" from PayPal: $20 and that includes shipping. Also, I have a new whoa video that I'm starting today that will follow one dog from start to finish so you can "sit in" on the actual training sessions and get a sense of just how your dog might respond too.
@@spadelugs Definitely. I’m 95% finished with a video on building your own coop which will give you the info that you need if you want to keep birds yourself.
If my dog is from well-bred lines and has caught poorly flying birds (basically dead and put down hard by the bird guy) during his puppy test and then caught a couple birds when a helper was trying to help me last year, can he ever be cured? He has high prey drive and tries to go in like Reggie White going after a sack. I didn't find any wild upland birds last season but did shoot some ducks over him in January. I bought a launcher and did a workout with 5 pigeons last weekend. No pointing occured, but feel like my timing was excellent and as that of a wild bird that is spooky. I just don't want him to find chasing as a reward. Is there a good way to slow him down after the bird gets up, so he doesn't feel like the chase is the reward? I feel like this video keeps me optimistic going into his second season. I decided I am going to put the miles on my truck this year to find birds even if I have to panhandle to get there.
Your dog should be fine but there's just no way to predict if it'll take a dozen birds or a lot more before he starts pointing. If you watch my videos, all of the dogs loved chasing at first but then they loved pointing . . . for a while :D Then they loved pointing longer and longer and when I finally started killing birds over their STAUNCH points, then it made everything make sense: he points; we shoot! But if you're worried about him liking the chase too much, run him with a checkcord. Do not hold the checkcord to "force" a point, but continue as you've been doing by simulating spooky birds with your launcher. You initially don't want him to hit the end of the checkcord hard so run with him somewhat to ease the final stop. Over time, allow his "run" after the flush to be less and less distance.
thank you Mark! I appreciate your professional advice! I was thinking to just keep exposing him to the pigeons and launchers. I feel a lot better and your video gives me confidence .@@Payton1221
hi mark...video is by far my favorite explanation as a am training my first dog. in beginning I had poorly flying birds not knowing they were droppers. since I go to auctions and get great flying birds every weekend. it's costly and because my pup caught a few droppers she continues to bust in on the great flying birds and will not point. HELP....do I just continue to buy and launch!. ...im raising my own homers but they arent ready yet.....your response would be amazing!
thank you Mark! tthis is a great video. Have a 7 month old wirehaired pointing griffon who loves using her nose and great pointing instinct. can this be done during a cold, snowy, UP michigan winter as well? or do these bird launchers only work in dry weather? thanks!
I'm occasionally surprised thinking a particular day should be a good day to scent or a bad day to scent and I'm wrong, but launchers will work in winter too. Just don't allow bad habits: if she gets too close, launch that bird and say NOTHING. If it's a bad day to scent, then maybe she points fewer birds (maybe none). On a better scenting day, she'll point more but you should still surprise her with a launched bird every now and then to keep her convinced these birds are WILD ACTING.
Thanks for your interest. The book is $20 and that includes shipping. If you're interested, send me an email to payton1221@yahoo.com and then I'll request $20 through PayPal or Venmo (let me know which you prefer) or you can mail me a check.
It's a bird launcher. At 6:25 on the video I caution that proper launcher introduction is important. For nearly all dogs, it's a very short introductory phase that can take as little as 3-4 launches done in the yard and NOT while pointing. But I also recommend that the springs be replaced or adjusted so that the launcher doesn't throw the bird more than a few feet in the air.
They're bred to home but you have to spend a few weeks letting them know where their coop is. You initially just let them wander out. Do NOT flush them or make them fly out because they often get scared and fly many yards from the coop and then can't find their way back. When you first let them wander out, do it near evening and when food has been withheld all day so they're motivated to come back soon.
I have a few books left. Reply or email me (payton1221@yahoo.com) with your email address and I’ll send a request for payment to you via email. Thanks for your interest. If you haven’t already seen it, check out that old video of mine of a 4-1/2 month old Vizsla that would point, back, and retrieve.
Great video! I really like the simplicity of this method. Would definitely like to see other videos of your training methods for more advanced concepts such as complete steadiness and force fetch. Additionally, let me know how we can go about ordering your book.
I have very few books left, but I’m getting more printed. I can send a request/invoice to you via PayPal if you want to buy one (I’ll need your email address). And additional videos will be released in the upcoming months. Thanks for your interest!
Hi Mark. I have a 4 year old german wirehaired pointer. Recently acquired him from someone who could no longer keep him. He will not hold a point for more than a couple of seconds. Being that he is an older dog is there anything I can do?
I use rollers and homers which cost me less than $0.10 per day per bird. You definitely need a coop. Even a small one that might only hold eight or 10 birds.
@@Payton1221 as an alternative, if i got a pheasant wing with scent and made it so i could raise it quickly (maybe up a tree) when the dog gets close, would that be a worthwhile replication? I wont get a pigeon coop done this year, and with bird season in full swing here in MN i'm just trying to help my newly acquired started dog understand what he's looking for and firm up his point.
Grant, you need to be doing what I'm trying to do with my young dogs which is to get them into as many wild birds as possible. If you've introduced the gun properly, only shoot the birds that he points. Ideally, you'd only shoot those that he allows you to walk in front and flush, but for a young dog, I think it's okay to shoot the occasional bird if he holds it long enough for you to get close to him even though you might not actually get in front of him. No sense in trying to simulate wild birds when you can find wild birds ;-)
I do that initially to speed up the process. The dog realizes there's a bird there and he's learning what doesn't work (jumping in!). When their pointing instinct is awakened, then I move the bird to other locations where they learn that jumping in never works anywhere.
I'm eventually going to do a video on the main launchers and the pros and cons of each, but my preferred launcher is one that's not even available anymore. It was called an E-Z Launcher and was one of the first ones made starting back in the 70's. What I like about it is that it weighs about half as much as today's models. I can go out with a bag full of pigeons and just one E-Z launcher (setting them as I go) and will set one out every 100-200 yards or so as I walk my "course" for a more realistic hunt.
Mr. Payton, I like what you're shared for the most part. The only part I personally disagree with is that I NEVER shoot at or kill birds for a dog that doesn't complete it's training, meaning steady to flush, shot and then sent to retrieve. I see that you/your assistant shoot at birds even though the dogs breaks at the flush or shot. That still means he/she BROKE. I don't want my dogs - young as they are - to break on the flush or shot for a hunting season or two and then try to resolve an issue "I" imposed on the dog. Dogs are far more capable than what most folk realize. Furthermore, what MOST hunters do - as supported by 99% of the videos here-in - is simply adjust their "personal expectation" which is then supported by feeble excuses as to why a dog that breaks at the flush or shot is somehow advantageous!?!?!
It's to each their own, and the country has plenty of staunch dogs and plenty of steady dogs. But regardless, even if I wanted a steady dog I would let them go with the birds for a while (the two pointers in the video were just 9 months old). I like building or stoking that "fire in the belly" when they're young. You can always take the chase out of the dog (and you don't have to be heavy handed to do it), but if someone went too far, too fast, with a few dogs you could take something out that might be very difficult to put back in them. Thanks for watching!
@@Payton1221 With all due respect, that is very archaic thinking Sir. So, you can let a dog chase and then later when it has done so for a period of time, you "fix/correct" a dog for something you condoned/supported?!? I just sent a pointer home at 10 months - completely steady and retrieving - nothing new. This pup's style will leave you spell-bound - head and tail high, stretched out, stunning!! It's 2022 and folk still have a head-full of "This is how you will do this pup!" Good trainers will watch, learn, and see how to achieve milestones with young pups so that they actually gravitate ALL THE WAY towards the end goal. All of my dogs leave here completely steady and retrieving before 12 months. It's the ONLY thing I offer. This is not a leap for well bred dogs. It might be for some trainers. I enjoyed your training philosophy. It isn't THAT diverse from mine but then you pull the plug at the 1/2 way mark!?! Don't understand why you condone bad habits which you will need to "correct" later on? I know you are capable based on your video. It's the dated misunderstanding that you need to let dogs run and chase and...whatever to blossom. Then, later on, you have to fix issues YOU instilled. Some dogs don't take to that very well and you get exactly what you tried to avoid. Early development isn't about taking away style or intensity what-so-ever. I do this now for discriminating gun dog owners but I learned during my years trialing. Most of my pups ran in derby and most of my derbies ran in adult stakes, successfully. I did my fair share of winning horseback stakes from 1982 -2009. In trials, simply having a broke dog won't win squat. Your dog has to have what I call "Wow factor" in order for him/her to hold the judges' attention. Style on point is CRITICAL. I never traded/compromised that in my understanding of how well bred young pups learn. That has been my experience. I've judged a couple of championships as well, just to validate my credentials. For example, I was training with pigeons back in 1986 when everybody else was using pen-raised Bobwhite and saying, "Mah dawg ain't pointin' no stinkin' pigeon! He's a bird dog!!" Today, finding pigeons for training has become a real challenge. Hmmm.....?
I couldn't agree more with the steady to wing and shot. I'm yet to see one RUclips video where the dogs are trained this way. I'm surprised that a dog hasn't been shot yet. I read Robert Wehle's book many years ago and his Elhew line were always trained in this manner.
Not 100% sure what you mean by "bust that bird," but when a dog will point for that length of time that's when you can walk in to flush the bird. I'll caution you that when she sees your movement (because until now you've been stationary), that might cause her to jump in.
I was using an old EZ-Launcher with Garmin electronics that I added and with a car lock solenoid as the release mechanism. Since then, I've been using the Dogtra launcher that I like a lot. Check out this video that I did comparing the Dogtra and the DT launchers: @@hunterlingo1215
My SM learned to point in very similar way. We trained on wild birds in natural conditions (which are not many, so it took some time). In my country it is prohibited to train dogs using alive animals. Theoretically you can train a hunting dog only in hunting season. But it’s still not that clear, bc you can’t disturb game if you’re not on a hunt, and you can’t take an untrained dog hunting, so ..🤷🏻♀️ that’s absurd. Also I’m not a fan of launchers. Unless you have a great grasp of birds behaviour, it teaches dogs to point too close to the bird. So in natural conditions they flush before the dog gets to a point. I’m always amazed. Do you have some special kind of bird game? 😂 I could never flush a bird basically kicking it out of the bushes like you do. They usually flush when I get within 10 meter range. And I approach very slowly and quietly 😅
I don't think it takes anything special to grasp the bird's behavior as you wrote. After you've hunted for a while, you witness when the dog gets too close versus when they get the birds pointed like they should. With electronic launchers, we simulate that. And when in doubt: LAUNCH! In fact, you can purposefully flush one bird every workout before your dog even has a chance to point the birds. All of this will teach a dog NOT to point too close to the bird.
So how do you get those birds into that position over and over? Do you have to set the bird there every time, and if so, wouldn't that take you hours just to set a few birds? Just confused on how you got the birds there.
I'm loading the bird in a launcher. I can literally plant three or four birds in the same location in just a few minutes by keeping a bag of pigeons with me. I load the launcher and then the dog gets into the scent cone and either points or doesn't. When they move toward the bird after identifying the bird by scent, I launch; they chase; and I immediately put another bird in the launcher and I'm ready for "round 2." :D
@Mark Payton Gundogs a "bag of pigeons".. that's an interesting phrase. So how do you avoid having your dog pick up the scent of the birds you're carrying and/or being so distracted by them that you can't really train? I'm new to this so very curious about how you go about bird wrangling haha
@@UNOwen-pe1bj Some dogs will show interest in the birds by jumping up on you, but you discourage them just like you would any other dog that jumped on you. As far as how quickly you can reload a launcher, start watching my "Dogtra vs DT Systems: Launcher Comparison" video at about 2:55.
Every time when I take it for hunting. When he made them to fly i scolded him every time but in vain.now if it stop that for a few seconds 5 to 6not for long time he ran after pray every time
@@Payton1221 yes it points. A black bird having long tail he caught it 3 to 4 time who sit on goats but now i have separate d from goats this pointer. I search in best way but before my reaching it already make them fly. It stops on that black bird sitting on goats in field but i want to stop on wild quail and wild porridge. It make them fly. I can send my dog video if you have what's app
I have a few sellers in my contact list, but I check Craigslist on occasion too. I prefer “rollers” to homers, since they’re a little smaller,but with proper introduction to your coop when young, both will “home” to your coop.
Good eye, Compton. I allude to whoa by saying that there is something that we can do later to get our dogs to point longer and longer, but an old time dog trainer named Bill West said that "whoa" was the most abused word in dog training, and he was right.
Mark. I love your video and your methods. I can’t wait to implement these strategies with my new GWP pup. How frequently can you do the pointing sessions with the launchers.? Can you go every day or is 2-3 times a week more optimal?
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best educational video i have found on youtube for bird 🐶 🐶
Thank you!
Good example. Never seen his thought process so clearly.
Mark, I received your book “Favorite ways to train your bird dog”. It’s awesome, simple and easy. I’ve trained 3 dogs over the years for myself and am training a pup now. Over the years I’ve purchased every conceivable book and video on training pointing dogs and I’ve found myself taking little snibits and pieces from each to use to train my dogs. Your book is the first that I would use in its entirely to work with my dogs. It’s just about exactly what I do. Thank you!
@@deerhost Wow!!! That’s high praise. Thanks for your kind words.
This was great info....I moved to the Dakota's jus for the wild birds....I literally turn pups out and they develop over a period of time....Wild birds train them....I mainly focus on yard work n benching them.....God Bless
I couldn't agree more. And I'm trying to duplicate in my bird field what you have in the Dakotas: WILD BIRDS!
Mere words are not enough: of all the vids I’ve watched this is the best.
Thank you so much. To be honest, the Brittany was causing me to pull my hair out but I think that’s what makes the video so powerful. All dogs won’t point the second or third or even 20th bird that they’re exposed to. But if you stick with it and give them enough opportunities, their pointing instinct should kick in.
Mark- This video was excellent. Probably the best I have found. Excellent explanations about the techniques to simulate wild birds. Thanks. Best regards.
That is the absolutely best video I have ever seen on using the remote trap! Beautiful!
Don, I don't know how I missed this reply until now, but thank you so much.
Thank you for your excellent video. I found it most informative and very easy to follow. It’s the best video of its kind that I have seen.
Great video and Ive watched a lot over the last few weeks! Very well delivered. Question for you. Do you have multiple launchers or just one? And if just one what are you doing to manage the dog in between launches, just have someone take the dog out of view and set the launcher in a different place?
Excellent work Mark 👍👍👍
Thank you so much. What bird hunting opportunities do you have in Belgium?
great video Mark!
Thanks Ruven. Glad you enjoyed it.
Thats awesome. I have a 5 mo. Griffon pointer and he points at all kinds of things because he doesn’t know yet. Bout to get him on the quails in my yard.
Excellent.
Wow!!! This is going to be so much easier than I thought. I have been so pressed about starting my 9 month old lab. He’s got good drive like really high drive so I know he will do good!! This is my first bird dog and I’m super excited but I’m taking my time
Whos it working out for you?
Thank you for the video. It will be helpful with my 9 month old brittany. He is my first pointer. There's a lot to learn for me.
Very cool! I have a Boykin Spaniel. She’s a flushing dog by nature. But I took her out (with no training) to hunt pen raised quail. She started out great. But when she learned she couldn’t catch the birds she started flash pointing them. But she would not stay on point or flush.
That's interesting. I've heard of labs that are not from "pointing lab" strains point occasionally too. My niece is engaged to a farmer with an Australian Shepherd. I think that his dog would point with a similar introduction to birds too.
@@Payton1221 I think with launchers training like you showed here I could have my Boykin holding point in no time.
Thank you! It is very helpful to those, who has no field birds on hunting species list. :)
Quality training tips and techniques. Very informative.
Mark. I love your video and your methods. I can’t wait to implement these strategies with my new GWP pup. How frequently can you do the pointing sessions with the launchers.? Can you go every day or is 2-3 times a week more optimal?
@@jeremymoeller4797 With a dog that hasn’t begun pointing, daily workouts with a few birds is okay, but as they start to point, I normally have fewer workouts (with birds) per week. You can still work your dog but focus on other things like turning with you and coming to you.
Great video. Everyone wanting to start training should watch this.
Good video. Hope you do more of them
Thanks. I have one that I'll be uploading in a day or two that showcases a few dogs from my local Quail Forever chapter taken at one of their four yearly fun trials, but I want to video my young pointer learning whoa from start to finish in a couple of months. If there's interest, I might do a force fetch video too filmed start to finish with one dog so that you can actually see what can happen with some dogs.
Awesome information this was very informative.
Amazing video
Great video very informative I would love to see and learn more
Thanks. As noted below, I'm thinking of whoa, retrieve, and backing videos too.
@@Payton1221 would love to see more I have an 11 week old GSP and just started bird introduction. I found your video easy to understand from a owner’s point of view. I will definitely be sharing your videos. Thank You
Love your videos. I think your training methods suit my style very well and make a lot of sense. I have ha Labs before but will be getting my first pointing dog this spring. I understand that each dog is different but on average how many reps of pointing and letting dogs chase do you begin to ask for steadiness? I understand that whoa needs to be taught in the yard first and I love your method of heel and whoa progressing though the buddy stick and check cord to teach that.
Every dog is different, but if your desire is to have a truly steady dog (normally defined as one that stands while you flush, continues to stand while the bird takes WING, and stands even after you've SHOT your gun, i.e., steady to WING & SHOT), I wouldn't even begin to take the dog's chase away until the dog has hunted one full season.
I would love to see a video series on what you would do to get a pup ready for his first year in the field.
Thank you
Do your birds come back and where do you buy them ? Having trouble finding pigeons.
@@fishingwithmike7079 I use homers and rollers so that they do return, and I usually buy mine on craigslist or from people that I’ve bought from on craigslist in the past.
Thank you for this video. I think it’s the coolest method I’ve seen. Could a dog think that chasing the bird is the reward? That would mean that releasing it when they creep in would actually reward the movement. Is this ever a problem with some dogs? I will begin training my first dog soon and am trying to decide the methods I want to use. Thanks again for this good content!
There are a few things that we can do to make chasing less fun, but I never attempt it until after dozens and dozens of bird contacts. The Brittany in the video is a great example. He immediately enjoyed chasing, but after many birds, his pointing instinct took over. What I alluded to in the video but purposefully didn't mention was the whoa command. After a dog will point and hold for 30 seconds or so and after they've had one season of hunting and just enjoying the hunting experience, that's when I whoa break them and I overlay the remote training collar so I can enforce staunchness, or if they do decide to chase, I can quickly stop them to where they learn that it's just better to remain pointed.
@@Payton1221 That makes sense. Thank you for your response.
Would this work for pointing labs?
Absolutely! I just got a pointing lab in a week ago for the trained retrieve, and I will be working her on weekends with pigeons and launchers for that very purpose.
Very nicely explained thank you.
Thanks Afzaal!
Great video, do you do any in person seminars? Whereabouts are you located?
Erik, I've not conducted any seminars, but I've worked with a lot of owners one on one, and I used to train for the public. I live in Southern Indiana just across the river from Louisville KY.
This was an excellent example of using launchers to create what occurs in nature.
I use a similar method.
Like your videos very much . I have a 8 month old gsp out of grouse buster lines. Curious if we could get a video explaining launchers , pigeons, and possibly coop ideas. Thanks mike Roy Cincinnati
Very informative video. I just got my first bird dog , a WPG, and cannot wait to get him trained up and ready to bird hunt. Ill be training in a similar habitat here in Virginia to your training area.
Pretty damn good video, keep it up I learned a couple good thing
Thanks William. Pigeons, launchers, and a solid, Solid, SOLID whoa foundation with the ecollar overlaid is a very useful combination for this type of work!
Good content … 👍🏻
I’d love a copy of your book. How can I get a hold of one?
Books are $20 and that includes shipping in the continental United States. If you are interested, I can send you a request for the money on Venmo or PayPal or you can send me a check. Let me know if you want to proceed.
@ yes. How can I get your address so I can send you a check?
@@Payton1221how can I get your address to send you a check for a book?
One question if you wanted a duel dog for deer aswell , would the process be the same? Obviously using something like antlers instead of live game
I’m not sure how my training could be used to teach a dog to track deer or deer antlers. Seems like you’d need any entirely new system to me.
Hi I really enjoyed this video and like the technique. I’m completely new to this though and was wondering about your launcher. Is that a fake bird coming out every time? Or are they live birds? What launcher are you using? Thanks!
I'm using rollers. They'll home some but just not as far from their coop as an actual homing pigeon. And they're smaller too. If you'll watch my Steady To Wing & Shot video, at the end of it I show that launcher AND I'm actually going to give one away to a subscriber at the end of this year. Check out that video for more info on the random drawing.
Morning Mark Could I get a copy of your book?
Books are $20. I can either request the money from you via PayPal or you can send me a check. Email me at payton1221@yahoo.com with how you want to proceed. Thanks in advance!
Mark- this is the best content I have found online. I wanted to buy your book, but they are out of stock on Amazon. Do you have a way to get them? Also, please post more content. I would appreciate it and would really like to ask more questions.
Thanks for the kind words. I have more books being printed now. Email me at payton1221@yahoo.com and when they're available, I'll send you a "money request" from PayPal: $20 and that includes shipping.
Also, I have a new whoa video that I'm starting today that will follow one dog from start to finish so you can "sit in" on the actual training sessions and get a sense of just how your dog might respond too.
Do you have anymore books available?
I have a few more and I have another order being printed now. Let me know your email address and I’ll request funds ($20) from you on PayPal.
Do you use pigeons that return ?
@@spadelugs Definitely. I’m 95% finished with a video on building your own coop which will give you the info that you need if you want to keep birds yourself.
I will look forward to it thanks a lot
If my dog is from well-bred lines and has caught poorly flying birds (basically dead and put down hard by the bird guy) during his puppy test and then caught a couple birds when a helper was trying to help me last year, can he ever be cured? He has high prey drive and tries to go in like Reggie White going after a sack. I didn't find any wild upland birds last season but did shoot some ducks over him in January. I bought a launcher and did a workout with 5 pigeons last weekend. No pointing occured, but feel like my timing was excellent and as that of a wild bird that is spooky. I just don't want him to find chasing as a reward. Is there a good way to slow him down after the bird gets up, so he doesn't feel like the chase is the reward? I feel like this video keeps me optimistic going into his second season. I decided I am going to put the miles on my truck this year to find birds even if I have to panhandle to get there.
Your dog should be fine but there's just no way to predict if it'll take a dozen birds or a lot more before he starts pointing. If you watch my videos, all of the dogs loved chasing at first but then they loved pointing . . . for a while :D Then they loved pointing longer and longer and when I finally started killing birds over their STAUNCH points, then it made everything make sense: he points; we shoot! But if you're worried about him liking the chase too much, run him with a checkcord. Do not hold the checkcord to "force" a point, but continue as you've been doing by simulating spooky birds with your launcher. You initially don't want him to hit the end of the checkcord hard so run with him somewhat to ease the final stop. Over time, allow his "run" after the flush to be less and less distance.
thank you Mark! I appreciate your professional advice! I was thinking to just keep exposing him to the pigeons and launchers. I feel a lot better and your video gives me confidence
.@@Payton1221
hi mark...video is by far my favorite explanation as a am training my first dog. in beginning I had poorly flying birds not knowing they were droppers. since I go to auctions and get great flying birds every weekend. it's costly and because my pup caught a few droppers she continues to bust in on the great flying birds and will not point. HELP....do I just continue to buy and launch!. ...im raising my own homers but they arent ready yet.....your response would be amazing!
How old is your dog? How many birds did she catch? Are you using an electronic launcher? Is she running free or are you checkcording her?
running free...1.5yrs old...caught 4 birds initially...yes electronic launchers
thank you Mark! tthis is a great video. Have a 7 month old wirehaired pointing griffon who loves using her nose and great pointing instinct. can this be done during a cold, snowy, UP michigan winter as well? or do these bird launchers only work in dry weather? thanks!
I'm occasionally surprised thinking a particular day should be a good day to scent or a bad day to scent and I'm wrong, but launchers will work in winter too. Just don't allow bad habits: if she gets too close, launch that bird and say NOTHING. If it's a bad day to scent, then maybe she points fewer birds (maybe none). On a better scenting day, she'll point more but you should still surprise her with a launched bird every now and then to keep her convinced these birds are WILD ACTING.
Where can I buy your book?
Thanks for your interest. The book is $20 and that includes shipping. If you're interested, send me an email to payton1221@yahoo.com and then I'll request $20 through PayPal or Venmo (let me know which you prefer) or you can mail me a check.
whats the name of the device used to release the bird?
It's a bird launcher. At 6:25 on the video I caution that proper launcher introduction is important. For nearly all dogs, it's a very short introductory phase that can take as little as 3-4 launches done in the yard and NOT while pointing. But I also recommend that the springs be replaced or adjusted so that the launcher doesn't throw the bird more than a few feet in the air.
Does the pigeon goes back to their enclosure when let loose? How do you get them ready to make sure they'll come back?
They're bred to home but you have to spend a few weeks letting them know where their coop is. You initially just let them wander out. Do NOT flush them or make them fly out because they often get scared and fly many yards from the coop and then can't find their way back. When you first let them wander out, do it near evening and when food has been withheld all day so they're motivated to come back soon.
Mark -
Awesome video! I have a 5 mo Brittany who will be introduced to birds shortly. Any tips for someone without access to launchers?
If you don't have access to launchers, I'd try to get your dog into as many wild birds as possible.
Mark when will your book be available again? I have a 20 month old vizsla that i would love to get trained for uplandgame
I have a few books left. Reply or email me (payton1221@yahoo.com) with your email address and I’ll send a request for payment to you via email. Thanks for your interest. If you haven’t already seen it, check out that old video of mine of a 4-1/2 month old Vizsla that would point, back, and retrieve.
როგორ გადავაჩვიოთ ფრინველის დაჭერას? პირიქით
Great video! I really like the simplicity of this method. Would definitely like to see other videos of your training methods for more advanced concepts such as complete steadiness and force fetch. Additionally, let me know how we can go about ordering your book.
I have very few books left, but I’m getting more printed. I can send a request/invoice to you via PayPal if you want to buy one (I’ll need your email address). And additional videos will be released in the upcoming months. Thanks for your interest!
@@Payton1221 Great! Is there any way to provide the email address without giving it to the public?
@@austintisch2072 Sorry about that. Email me at payton1221@yahoo.com
Hi Mark. I have a 4 year old german wirehaired pointer. Recently acquired him from someone who could no longer keep him. He will not hold a point for more than a couple of seconds. Being that he is an older dog is there anything I can do?
@@KB1229YN Does he like chasing? How birdy is he?
@Payton1221 he loves chasing and he's super birdy. He lives for it lol
How many pigeons do you go through? Are they homing, they come back? I feel like I’m about to go broke buying pigeons 😅
I use rollers and homers which cost me less than $0.10 per day per bird. You definitely need a coop. Even a small one that might only hold eight or 10 birds.
@@Payton1221 as an alternative, if i got a pheasant wing with scent and made it so i could raise it quickly (maybe up a tree) when the dog gets close, would that be a worthwhile replication? I wont get a pigeon coop done this year, and with bird season in full swing here in MN i'm just trying to help my newly acquired started dog understand what he's looking for and firm up his point.
Grant, you need to be doing what I'm trying to do with my young dogs which is to get them into as many wild birds as possible. If you've introduced the gun properly, only shoot the birds that he points. Ideally, you'd only shoot those that he allows you to walk in front and flush, but for a young dog, I think it's okay to shoot the occasional bird if he holds it long enough for you to get close to him even though you might not actually get in front of him.
No sense in trying to simulate wild birds when you can find wild birds ;-)
Greetings from Kazakhstan! Did I get it right, you use to plant birds on the same place for several times?
I do that initially to speed up the process. The dog realizes there's a bird there and he's learning what doesn't work (jumping in!). When their pointing instinct is awakened, then I move the bird to other locations where they learn that jumping in never works anywhere.
@@Payton1221 Thank you sir
@@Payton1221 Today worked 5 pigeons in the launcher, 3 from one spot and two from another. Works great.
How can I find the launcher you have? I’m getting a Brittany puppy soon. Any help is appreciated
I'm eventually going to do a video on the main launchers and the pros and cons of each, but my preferred launcher is one that's not even available anymore. It was called an E-Z Launcher and was one of the first ones made starting back in the 70's. What I like about it is that it weighs about half as much as today's models. I can go out with a bag full of pigeons and just one E-Z launcher (setting them as I go) and will set one out every 100-200 yards or so as I walk my "course" for a more realistic hunt.
enjoy the video
Mr. Payton, I like what you're shared for the most part. The only part I personally disagree with is that I NEVER shoot at or kill birds for a dog that doesn't complete it's training, meaning steady to flush, shot and then sent to retrieve. I see that you/your assistant shoot at birds even though the dogs breaks at the flush or shot. That still means he/she BROKE. I don't want my dogs - young as they are - to break on the flush or shot for a hunting season or two and then try to resolve an issue "I" imposed on the dog. Dogs are far more capable than what most folk realize. Furthermore, what MOST hunters do - as supported by 99% of the videos here-in - is simply adjust their "personal expectation" which is then supported by feeble excuses as to why a dog that breaks at the flush or shot is somehow advantageous!?!?!
It's to each their own, and the country has plenty of staunch dogs and plenty of steady dogs. But regardless, even if I wanted a steady dog I would let them go with the birds for a while (the two pointers in the video were just 9 months old). I like building or stoking that "fire in the belly" when they're young. You can always take the chase out of the dog (and you don't have to be heavy handed to do it), but if someone went too far, too fast, with a few dogs you could take something out that might be very difficult to put back in them. Thanks for watching!
@@Payton1221 With all due respect, that is very archaic thinking Sir. So, you can let a dog chase and then later when it has done so for a period of time, you "fix/correct" a dog for something you condoned/supported?!? I just sent a pointer home at 10 months - completely steady and retrieving - nothing new. This pup's style will leave you spell-bound - head and tail high, stretched out, stunning!! It's 2022 and folk still have a head-full of "This is how you will do this pup!" Good trainers will watch, learn, and see how to achieve milestones with young pups so that they actually gravitate ALL THE WAY towards the end goal. All of my dogs leave here completely steady and retrieving before 12 months. It's the ONLY thing I offer. This is not a leap for well bred dogs. It might be for some trainers. I enjoyed your training philosophy. It isn't THAT diverse from mine but then you pull the plug at the 1/2 way mark!?! Don't understand why you condone bad habits which you will need to "correct" later on? I know you are capable based on your video. It's the dated misunderstanding that you need to let dogs run and chase and...whatever to blossom. Then, later on, you have to fix issues YOU instilled. Some dogs don't take to that very well and you get exactly what you tried to avoid. Early development isn't about taking away style or intensity what-so-ever. I do this now for discriminating gun dog owners but I learned during my years trialing. Most of my pups ran in derby and most of my derbies ran in adult stakes, successfully. I did my fair share of winning horseback stakes from 1982 -2009. In trials, simply having a broke dog won't win squat. Your dog has to have what I call "Wow factor" in order for him/her to hold the judges' attention. Style on point is CRITICAL. I never traded/compromised that in my understanding of how well bred young pups learn. That has been my experience. I've judged a couple of championships as well, just to validate my credentials. For example, I was training with pigeons back in 1986 when everybody else was using pen-raised Bobwhite and saying, "Mah dawg ain't pointin' no stinkin' pigeon! He's a bird dog!!" Today, finding pigeons for training has become a real challenge. Hmmm.....?
I couldn't agree more with the steady to wing and shot. I'm yet to see one RUclips video where the dogs are trained this way. I'm surprised that a dog hasn't been shot yet. I read Robert Wehle's book many years ago and his Elhew line were always trained in this manner.
Hey Mark, my pup she pointed for long periods around 40secs to 1minute should I bust that bird after a certain time if they don’t creep
Not 100% sure what you mean by "bust that bird," but when a dog will point for that length of time that's when you can walk in to flush the bird. I'll caution you that when she sees your movement (because until now you've been stationary), that might cause her to jump in.
@@Payton1221 yes, I meant walk up after a period of time. Thanks for the reply
Sir I’d love to know the dummy system you’re using. Thank you
Are you referring to the launcher that I use?
@@Payton1221 yes sir.
I was using an old EZ-Launcher with Garmin electronics that I added and with a car lock solenoid as the release mechanism. Since then, I've been using the Dogtra launcher that I like a lot. Check out this video that I did comparing the Dogtra and the DT launchers:
@@hunterlingo1215
My SM learned to point in very similar way. We trained on wild birds in natural conditions (which are not many, so it took some time). In my country it is prohibited to train dogs using alive animals. Theoretically you can train a hunting dog only in hunting season. But it’s still not that clear, bc you can’t disturb game if you’re not on a hunt, and you can’t take an untrained dog hunting, so ..🤷🏻♀️ that’s absurd. Also I’m not a fan of launchers. Unless you have a great grasp of birds behaviour, it teaches dogs to point too close to the bird. So in natural conditions they flush before the dog gets to a point. I’m always amazed. Do you have some special kind of bird game? 😂 I could never flush a bird basically kicking it out of the bushes like you do. They usually flush when I get within 10 meter range. And I approach very slowly and quietly 😅
I don't think it takes anything special to grasp the bird's behavior as you wrote. After you've hunted for a while, you witness when the dog gets too close versus when they get the birds pointed like they should. With electronic launchers, we simulate that. And when in doubt: LAUNCH! In fact, you can purposefully flush one bird every workout before your dog even has a chance to point the birds. All of this will teach a dog NOT to point too close to the bird.
Where do you find pigeons
I know of one pigeon breeder who sells me birds, and I'll buy from others on Craigslist too.
@@Payton1221 Ok, thanks for the information.
So how do you get those birds into that position over and over? Do you have to set the bird there every time, and if so, wouldn't that take you hours just to set a few birds? Just confused on how you got the birds there.
I'm loading the bird in a launcher. I can literally plant three or four birds in the same location in just a few minutes by keeping a bag of pigeons with me. I load the launcher and then the dog gets into the scent cone and either points or doesn't. When they move toward the bird after identifying the bird by scent, I launch; they chase; and I immediately put another bird in the launcher and I'm ready for "round 2." :D
@Mark Payton Gundogs a "bag of pigeons".. that's an interesting phrase. So how do you avoid having your dog pick up the scent of the birds you're carrying and/or being so distracted by them that you can't really train? I'm new to this so very curious about how you go about bird wrangling haha
@@UNOwen-pe1bj Some dogs will show interest in the birds by jumping up on you, but you discourage them just like you would any other dog that jumped on you. As far as how quickly you can reload a launcher, start watching my "Dogtra vs DT Systems: Launcher Comparison" video at about 2:55.
Breeding hunting dogs and water dogs equals the best hunting dog
This method is similar to what I have used for the last 10 years.
I have 12 month old pointer but doesn't stop on prey how to train it
How many opportunities has your dog been given to point? How many of those birds has your dog caught?
A number of birds like wild quail and wild porridge it made them fly
Every time when I take it for hunting. When he made them to fly i scolded him every time but in vain.now if it stop that for a few seconds 5 to 6not for long time he ran after pray every time
@@naveedahmed3315 Have you ever seen the dog point anything? Have you ever worked him on pen raised birds, and if so, has he caught any birds?
@@Payton1221 yes it points. A black bird having long tail he caught it 3 to 4 time who sit on goats but now i have separate d from goats this pointer. I search in best way but before my reaching it already make them fly. It stops on that black bird sitting on goats in field but i want to stop on wild quail and wild porridge. It make them fly. I can send my dog video if you have what's app
Where is everyone getting pigeons? lol and do they come back?
I have a few sellers in my contact list, but I check Craigslist on occasion too. I prefer “rollers” to homers, since they’re a little smaller,but with proper introduction to your coop when young, both will “home” to your coop.
Key point in this video: The word whoa isn't being used at all.
Good eye, Compton. I allude to whoa by saying that there is something that we can do later to get our dogs to point longer and longer, but an old time dog trainer named Bill West said that "whoa" was the most abused word in dog training, and he was right.
The poodle and that dog are saying it's us for this job instead of labradors and German shepherds
This dog needs to be breeded with the water dogs asap
I'm no
Have become big fan of bird launchers and Mark's strategy when to use them...gordonthompson
Mark. I love your video and your methods. I can’t wait to implement these strategies with my new GWP pup. How frequently can you do the pointing sessions with the launchers.? Can you go every day or is 2-3 times a week more optimal?