This is the best multiplication method for any type small group/organic church I've seen so far. It describes exactly what God has been drawing me toward for years. I love the difference of "shift" vs. "split"...it really is common sense...a completely natural process.
Thank you David for this video. I am a planter/pastor and writting up goals for small groups, i was looking for help in my thought process and this hits the mark. I will give you credit if i mention to my team any info from your video. God Bless.
Praise Jesus Amen 🙏 Your doing Absolutely wonderful ministry activities . Greetings from India to you Pastor Brother 🙏 please pray for our Indian people.
Brad, I would agree about sending them before they're ready, but remember the core group is all about equipping. I also think that ppl going out prematurely isn't are main problem. Our main issue is ppl NEVER going out. And to some extent our current models inherently lean towards a few key leaders and many long term spectators.
Praise God I found this video. My husband and I are about to pastor a house church and this is timely. May God continue to use you bless the internet community! Love from the Philippines.
Awesome, David! I really appreciate the concise, easy to understand methods. I was particularly impressed with your "True Multiplication" idea. In my house church, we discussed the need to multiply, but kept running into the same issue that you mentioned when using a typical method--people hated it. The "true" way, as you put it, seems more appealing. Also, this video is PERFECT as an equipping video for my group. It got all points across simply and effectively!! Thanks again!
This is an awesome and honest commentary and program. We need this kind or cell or discipleship group network where people can form REAL relationships for the purpose of growing in Christ and helping each other. Developing relationships that continue through this life and on into eternity.... We had that before america became to modern and swanky. A return to the simple and heartfelt is what most people want now and are longing to have. You'r right on target.
This is how Hillsong Church works. Its a great model and it creates really solid, deep friendships among the leadership. Its so, so much easier to pastor people who know that you love them. This model is the antithesis of a traditional church model where the Pastor gets burned out and people leave easily because "nobody cares". Do the math people! There are only 24 hours in the day. We can have meaningful, deep relationships with a handful of people.
Anthony Peterson, I think that you may have missed a key point here. This model is not about building mega-church institutions like Hillsong Church. This model is for small-group, local bodies of believers with biblical depth instead of the four sides (building, staff, programs, and budget). Those four are counter-productive biblically speaking for this model.
And some even display their diplomas and certificates in social media while Jesus' example was hiding away when people want to make them king. This fame has nothing to do with His ministry and He knows how to overcome this temptation.
Consider how Jesus sent His followers out. They really weren't "ready" and to emphasize their need to depend on God He also told them not to take anything extra with them. Then they came back and he taught them more. This is what I think we're missing today. We don't trust the Spirit enough and we create long term infants in the faith.
Hi, David. Thank you for this video. I know I'm a few years late in commenting, but I see a recent reply from Slavwave, so I'll toss in my two cents. 20 years ago, I learned about cell groups from a missionary. I didn't learn much more than a few basics, but I was driven to take the time to research and design a cell church model that might work in the USA. Like your model in this video, it was only a model, not actually put into practice. In my model, the core was started by two teachers, each having no more than one or two disciples. Like yours, it is disciple centric. Teachers and disciples must be compatible and communicate by phone and meet several times per week. When they have grown enough, the disciples become teachers to new disciples while remaining disciples of their teachers. Eventually, the group branches off with teachers and disciples. Each group may have a deacon, as they are called in my denomination, who checks on each member of the group every week and helps learn about and meet their needs. I've been calling these 'cell' groups, but I think I'll change it to 'disciple groups'. When the core group branches, they have corporate meetings for Sunday Worship and sermons by the pastor. (corporate just means all the members of all the cells being at the same time and place.) Having been in 5 or 6 churches that tried "small group ministries", I have come to the conclusion that an established B&M Church cannot convert to small group churches. The reason is the mentality. People don't want to change and they are established in the church. All the attempts I experienced did not focus on discipleship, but tried to either control the teachings, or to have untrained leaders teaching using audio/video courses. Disciple Groups are a new mentality. It's a commitment on both parties and with God. The purpose is to use a structured approach to train the disciple and for that disciple to train another. Disciples and teachers must be properly paired for it to work. Most of what I see on the Internet today, are people who are in rebellion against "organized religion" wanting to be like the early church and meet in homes. Their pastors then want to know how to get a full-time paycheck from a congregation of 20 members. Several, if not many, are becoming micro-cults as they don't understand the scriptures so they don't preach the Truth. The early church met in homes AND in the Temple, (And I think I read somewhere, in the synagogues.) Pastors could preach at corporate worship and visit home ministries the rest of the week for breaking of bread and teaching. I could write for hours, there is so much, but I need to sleep, too, LOL. I believe that a church started with and expanded by discipleship groups can work in the US and I long for the day I find one.
Thank you for sharing. I believe you are right on target. I've been envisioning something similar also. I think this might be the right time in human history for this type of Christ-following network of believers to start up. People are tired of 'cattle call' type churches where people just file in and out in masses never speaking or developing real relationships with each other. Small groups don't work either. It's a bandaid on people's heart hurt and need for real Christian relationship and fellowship where they can grow in Christ and make life-long freindships that will carry into eternity.
No worries - I love these conversations. Let me respond with some questions to consider. One, does outreach have to include inviting someone to another place? While gathering is great, I don't think that has to be seen as required. Why not live your faith out in normal everyday environments. Soon you may have 2 or 3 more friends hanging around and without even trying you have formed a new group - naturally (which is far better than forced).
Hey Matt. Thanks for the comment. I trust that God will lead you exactly where he wants you to be. For me it's about creating environments that enhance relationships. Both our relationship with God and our relationships with the people around us. Also I believe it is about helping people be able to multiply these types of environments in a natural way.
The "not ready to lead" issue is a major issue in our structures today. Many may disagree with me, but I don't think you need a lot of training to lead - especially if we believe the Holy Spirit is our true leader. The beauty of staying in your initial group while you begin your own group is you keep your connection with those who can help you continue to grow along the way. This may need more conversation, so feel free to reply here.
Hi Will! I'm not familiar with Peter's book, but it sounds like I should check it out! Thanks for the comment. Are you part of a movement that looks like this?
Second question (regarding leadership) what do we see in Scripture regarding leaders? Is it specific knowledge or is it more about your character? Is it about intellect or love for God and people? Is it about position or transparency? A friend recently asked whether I felt more vulnerable towards sin being "away from al larger church structure." The truth is I feel less vulnerable now because I can be much more transparent then those on staff at a church. Why? (Continued in next comment)
Yeah, that's valid. I guess when I talk about making sure leaders are ready, I am talking more about the need for Biblical qualifications laid out in the letters to Timothy and Titus for elders. Not necessarily that they all need to be the best teachers, but that they need to still meet a standard.
Hi Dave, I appreciate your video. I am doing a lot of thinking lately about house churches. It is now 2020 and this video is almost eight years old. So now, with eight years experience, how is it working out? Do you still have the same pattern? Is it working? Would you change any thing? Are you now overseeing a hundred small churches? If it's not working, then why not? What are your current thoughts?
I haven’t been to this page in awhile. Thanks for your questions. They are actually a good challenge/encouragement to me. Here are my answers. 8 years in I’d like to see more fruit, but the truth is I’m not tracking all of the groups that may have grown out of this one. What I can say is we have had people (great friends!) who have moved away from our area and they are now leading groups in their new locations. These are relatively new/young groups, but my prayer is they will continue to grow and multiply and continue to spread the Good News of God’s grace. We’ve also had a couple move back to China and while that can be a very difficult place for believers, they are continuing to grow and gather with others. And there are some who are involved with multiple groups in our area. So, yes, we continue to see it ”work”. As to following the same pattern, I’ve gotten a little lazy here. While I have encouraged those in our current group to grow and consider this multiplication in the past, I’ve not been as intentional more recently in equipping and encouraging them to continue to grow and consider this. I guess I’ve gotten a bit comfortable with our group. Your questions are giving me fresh empowerment to get back to my calling as expressed in the video, for the purpose of seeing all of us continue to grow and reach those around us! I don’t think I would change anything currently, but that does not mean we would never change things. I’m not overseeing more than just my couple of groups, as my desire is not to oversee, but to equip and set free to go and spread the Gospel. That does not mean that I’m not available for those who need me, but the truth is the groups “down line” from our original group would likely not know me at all. And I think that’s great! They have others who are equipping them. I hope this helps, and I do appreciate the questions.
Hi Brad, thanks for the question. What you're bumping up against is a difference between attempting to make this part of an institutional structure vs it being its own structure. In the institutional structure we often ask/expect people to be in more than one group. Most structures have multiple weekly events. So, if you try to ADD this to an already full "church" calendar, then most won't have time for this. However, of this is your primary structure then 2 groups at a time is not that hard.
Professor Dunbar recently published a paper on the most efficient factors in mens groups. He concluded there were five, namely 5 people (no more, no less), 90 minutes, twice a week, in a public place, with action of some kind. Sponsored by ......Guinness.
ANY IDEAS on to connect the dots and find a small home group??? After seeking decades - no luck. Tried putting out a local flyer and get told im gold-digging - The majority is BS denom churches who dont like it, gotta keep the paycheck ya know.
(Con't) Because like it or not most on staff know that if the stumble and are found out they will probably lose their job. I know we don't like to think of our ministry as a job, but if that's where you get a paycheck, it is. I'm opening all kinds of cans of worms now. :-)
How do you integrate this with an existing brick-and-mortar church? Could you replace a church congregation with the "core group" and just have everyone meet up every Sunday at church?
Slavwave, I doubt you could do this successfully. I think that is why Jesus said you cannot put new wine into old wineskins. The traditional pastor driven, auditorium style, pew sitting spectators type church is the old wineskin. Besides, then each of the home churches would have the burden of supporting the 'mother ship' and be tied to its control.
This can be difficult, but not impossible. It is hard for people to un-learn habits, and like it or not, the way we are used to doing “church” is a habit. However, when people experience deeper community and deeper relationships that come through that community, they will want more of it. I would start slowly. I would find those who would agree with this video and are willing to give it a shot. Again, as I said in the video, this takes time and it is NOT a race to see how fast we can get there. Focus on building the deeper relationships not on how quickly you can multiply. As far as continuing to gather the church on Sundays, I’m all for it. But I also believe we are just as much the church gathered when we are in our community groups.
Also part of the reason for the multiplication by division idea is that the groups grow by people inviting their friends. What if I'm a member of a group, but I'm not ready to break off and be a leader so I'm only in one group, and say this group is already quite large. Too large to keep growing and still remain a *small* group. What do I do with my friend? Do I try to convince him to go to a group where he knows no one? Btw, I'm not trying to debate, I genuinely am seeking your advice. Thanks
Again, somehow just seeing this question, but will reply either for your benefit or for others. If the group has grown to be that large, my question would be, “Have we really been discipling people to multiply?” I am currently experiencing exactly what you’re asking about here. So, I have to evaluate how well I’ve been discipling my current group to multiply. The truth is if we’re growing larger and larger over time and haven’t already seen people step out to start their second group, then we’re not really following this model. What you’re describing, and I’m currently experiencing, is where it will go naturally without an intentional effort to mature and multiply as I have described in the video. That’s on me (or you as the catalyst for starting such a group). We need to be discipling, encouraging and reminding our groups of our goals to spread the Gospel in this way. Which means we must disciple well, and continue to encourage people that they have the same Spirit within them and they can do this.
One more question, is the Spirit able to use us in spite of our weaknesses? I sure hope so. I do believe we mature in our faith (and that is the role of our primary group - to help is mature so we can then disciple others. I don't think our primary problem is a potential bad leader nearly as much as it is millions of passive believers who use all sorts of excuses to not follow the Great Commission. Jesus didn't tell the disciples to wait until they were good leaders. He simply told them to w
David, thank you for posting this. I am a leader in my church's small group structure (not a Simple church, but we're using small groups similar to how you describe it). I have a couple questions though and would love your feedback. I agree the multiply by division method gets a lot of resistance. But for one thing, I am afraid that too many people would not have the time/be willing to be active in 2 groups. Can you speak to this?
Brad Travelpiece Somehow I am just seeing this question. I have no idea where you are at today, but I’ll reply anyway in hopes of being helpful to you or there who read this. It’s a valid question - will people commit to two nights - and I have found this to be a bit of a challenge, but I think the bigger challenge is helping people believe they can do it. It’s more a lack of confidence versus a lack of time. Many people in “church world” already spend way more than one night a week attempting to keep church programs running. If that is the case, it may be helpful to evaluate all of the different things we’re committed to and determine where we believe God is leading us to focus our limited time resource.
That question was more about just inviting people. Say I am in a group of 12 people, and that is what we have said will be our group's max. Say 4 of them have broken off and become leaders (which could be a relatively high number, especially if the group is young). But maybe I'm not one of those 4 that have broken off, but I have a friend who I want to invite to small group with me, but my group is already too big and won't be splitting. If I'm not ready to lead, I've lost my outreach potential
And again, just to be clear, I don't know how this is coming across, but none of this is meant to be "standoffish" or as if I'm debating or anything. I'm not trying to win an argument with ya... I'm genuinely curious as to your thoughts, cause I'd love some input on this stuff :)
I understand that, but the Bible is also clear that we are to have clear guidelines as to who is qualified to be an elder... those who are our leaders. Sure, perhaps the training process doesn't need to be as exhaustive as it sometimes is, but at the same time I don't see it as wise or God-honoring to let just anyone loose as a leader who is willing, you know?
I went to a church and it split because of a disagreement between the Pastor and the elders but it created two churches and then the pastor's church split so there were three churches it works well they always eat together at church. I believe that the way things are going we will have to meet this way as the Government has many laws on the books to persecute Christians one of them are the Noahide laws signed into law by George H. Bush anyone can Google them and there is the fact we are classified as terrorists so home churches will be the way in the coming tribulation.
Interesting perspective... Lets say you start the "true" multiplication method and it grows, maybe even say it grows rapidly. You start in one group and by God's grace launch another. Then that particular individual that started in one group and then also leads another is inherently stuck into those two small groups indefinitely. Might sounds like a good idea but being with the same group long-term, with no new people coming in, has its own problems. Then after two multiplications you aren't even making disciples in your small group because no new people are added from what I understand with this model. I have personally found it easier to cast a vision to help people overcome the distaste for "typical" multiplication than dealing the downstream effects of "true" multiplication (lack of leaders, stale groups, no new believers in a lot of groups, etc). We need to be careful not to be overly reactionary to peoples likes and dislikes. That can lead us down some dangerous paths. Overall interesting perspective. Thanks for sharing!
Tyler Faust Hi Tyler, I appreciate your thoughtful reply. I would say this is the underlying model for true growth. It does not prohibit new people from joining a group, but it does encourage those within the group to be thinking missionally, overused word but accurate, from the beginning. Over time, those going out and planting a new group, may fade from the original group, as well. Think about our biological families. Is it detrimental to stay connected long term to your parents, assuming this a healthy relationship? How about staying connected to your spouse and children? I don't think staying connected long-term to healthy small groups is detrimental, either. This is what allows true trust and depth of relationship to take place. I'm not saying this is the only way to structure small groups. I am saying I'm living this out now in my life, and I have the most healthy community I've ever had. I trust the Holy Spirit to lead each of us to where He wants us to be, to experience life as Jesus revealed it to us - full and abundant. Thanks for the reply!
Thanks for the reply! How do the people in your church respond to having two nights of the week taken up primarily with small group (that would be a capacity problem for many of our leaders I would assume)? I guess our model is more traditional, by your definition, but we seek to maintain authentic, healthy relationships with people in our small groups even during multiplication or splitting the traditional way. The goal obviously being two health multiplied groups at the end of the traditional model. How do you implement leadership training for your future or potential small groups leaders?
Tyler Faust I appreciate the conversation. Since the initial small group is effectively their training group, this is where the new leaders (or hosts, or admin) people are originally developed. Once one starts their own group, they continue to be part of their original group - they continue these relationships and continue to be disciples/mentored. Every small group leader will spend at least one night in preparation for leading their group - why not do this preparation in community (in their original group)? In my current specific situation, the group I lead now has four other groups that have grown out of it. The original group is the place where these leaders still gather as prep for their own groups. So, the "additional time" issue isn't really true. Our leaders just do their prep time in community together. This also allows them to bring issues that their new group may encounter back to our original group to get our thoughts on issues. We're all continuing to help each other grow. Another advantage of not leaving your original group when you go start your own, is not all small groups "succeed" (take root). By having never left their original group, a new leader already has a place to return (because they never left), regroup, and give it another shot. Sadly, when a group does not take root, often the leader who attempt to plant that group now feels alone. This model helps avoid that situation. I hope this help!
Yeah, I certainly am not relying on degrees. But there still is a tension to balance between letting someone learn as they go and sending someone out who is genuinely not ready. We've gotta thread that needle.
I have never seen your model. What I have seen is the group falls apart and another is formed taking its place. They are so fragile, people so migrant, and the goal so vague, that the model is not at all like a model family. Everyone came from parents and some with children. Groups typically are formed, fall apart, reformed, fall apart, reform. etc. I can trace my family back generations. Small groups, not so much true, perfect, or even realistic Still, nice ideas and graphics.
Hi Jerry! I’ve had your same experience in the past, but the same can be said for our biological families. We may be able to trace our roots way back, but that does not mean it’s a health family. People can be difficult (myself included). But this does not mean we give up. What I am currently experience in our group is fantastic and has been going for eight years. Even with people moving away, what we see is them re-creating this where God has moved them. Here’s what I’ve found - a good meal to share breaks down barriers and brings people closer together. A solid focus on the Gospel of God’s grace and all that Jesus has done for us. We encourage each other on the good times and the rough times. A desire to really get to know each other (this is scary at first - it takes time to build trust). Look for these things and I believe you will find a community you will want to be a part of for a long time...and will want to help reproduce.
then we have to ask why this isn't working too well? of course some members of the family never do leave home, some might leave home, but never get married or have children, they live alone. so the family model is not 100$ working
It may be “working” better than you think. No, you won’t see advertisements and big buildings, but that’s the point. What you will see is people connecting with their friends and neighbors in deeper ways. Sure every family has some level of disfunction, and so do our spiritual families. But that doesn’t mean it’s not “working”.
I’m just seeing this, Jonathan. Sorry for the late reply. I understand your sentiment, but would like to respond by saying that I realize money can be a sticky subject for many, especially when it is connected with spiritual things. I’m not looking for or asking anyone for financial support, but I do believe in giving generously so that the Gospel of God’s grace can continue to be shared with a hurting world. At the risk of opening Pandora’s box, I believe the tithe (giving 10%) is old covenant law (Jesus said it was Law when rebuking the Pharisees) which as new covenant believers we are not under. Romans tells us, Jesus is the end of the Law for all who believe. Jesus said a new command I give to you, “As I have loved you, love one another.” What see under this new covenant is a people desiring to give generously as they are able. I love being able to give when I see real need - wherever I see it. So, I think I understand where you’re coming from, and I agree there can be a lot of financial waste within religious circles, but I would still encourage all believers to look for ways they can help others, including by giving financially, when they see a need.
Excellent video! Thank you David.
Blessed be the name of the Lord..
Now I just confirmed that I am not alone on what I receive from the Lord...
This is the groups of 12 concept that has been around for decades
This is the best multiplication method for any type small group/organic church I've seen so far. It describes exactly what God has been drawing me toward for years. I love the difference of "shift" vs. "split"...it really is common sense...a completely natural process.
This is very good. I like the way you explained how to multiply house churches.
Thank you David for this video. I am a planter/pastor and writting up goals for small groups, i was looking for help in my thought process and this hits the mark. I will give you credit if i mention to my team any info from your video. God Bless.
awesome thank you for this video,it helps alot in our home church planting
Praise Jesus Amen 🙏 Your doing Absolutely wonderful ministry activities . Greetings from India to you Pastor Brother 🙏 please pray for our Indian people.
Brad, I would agree about sending them before they're ready, but remember the core group is all about equipping. I also think that ppl going out prematurely isn't are main problem. Our main issue is ppl NEVER going out. And to some extent our current models inherently lean towards a few key leaders and many long term spectators.
Praise God I found this video. My husband and I are about to pastor a house church and this is timely. May God continue to use you bless the internet community! Love from the Philippines.
Wonderful insights! Very helpful. God bless you!
Amen, amen, amen! I agree completely!
Awesome, David! I really appreciate the concise, easy to understand methods. I was particularly impressed with your "True Multiplication" idea. In my house church, we discussed the need to multiply, but kept running into the same issue that you mentioned when using a typical method--people hated it. The "true" way, as you put it, seems more appealing. Also, this video is PERFECT as an equipping video for my group. It got all points across simply and effectively!! Thanks again!
I really appreciate this video. It's right on with what we are doing. I will be sharing. Thanks.
Great to hear!
This is an awesome and honest commentary and program. We need this kind or cell or discipleship group network where people can form REAL relationships for the purpose of growing in Christ and helping each other. Developing relationships that continue through this life and on into eternity.... We had that before america became to modern and swanky. A return to the simple and heartfelt is what most people want now and are longing to have. You'r right on target.
I appreciate your thoughts.
This is how Hillsong Church works. Its a great model and it creates really solid, deep friendships among the leadership. Its so, so much easier to pastor people who know that you love them. This model is the antithesis of a traditional church model where the Pastor gets burned out and people leave easily because "nobody cares". Do the math people! There are only 24 hours in the day. We can have meaningful, deep relationships with a handful of people.
Anthony Peterson These small groups don’t get into debt with a large building and then beg for money. Big difference
Anthony Peterson, I think that you may have missed a key point here. This model is not about building mega-church institutions like Hillsong Church. This model is for small-group, local bodies of believers with biblical depth instead of the four sides (building, staff, programs, and budget). Those four are counter-productive biblically speaking for this model.
Anthony, are you talking about Hillsong in Australia or a different Hillsong Church?
So good. I love this.
Home church Growth I hope it is beneficial for you. Thanks for the comment.
Wait for the Holy Spirit. We need to rely more on the Spirit and less on degrees.
And some even display their diplomas and certificates in social media while Jesus' example was hiding away when people want to make them king. This fame has nothing to do with His ministry and He knows how to overcome this temptation.
amen to that!
That is how Paul taught in 2 Tim 2:2
Thank you!
Samuel Rozolem You’re welcome. Thanks for the response.
This makes so much sense! I've thought of it too.
Sally Sommers good to hear from you. I pray you’ll be part of creating something like this for the people around you.
Amen!!!
Virginia Brown I’m glad you liked the video. I hope you are or will be able to enjoy such a community in your life.
Consider how Jesus sent His followers out. They really weren't "ready" and to emphasize their need to depend on God He also told them not to take anything extra with them. Then they came back and he taught them more. This is what I think we're missing today. We don't trust the Spirit enough and we create long term infants in the faith.
Hi, David. Thank you for this video. I know I'm a few years late in commenting, but I see a recent reply from Slavwave, so I'll toss in my two cents.
20 years ago, I learned about cell groups from a missionary. I didn't learn much more than a few basics, but I was driven to take the time to research and design a cell church model that might work in the USA. Like your model in this video, it was only a model, not actually put into practice.
In my model, the core was started by two teachers, each having no more than one or two disciples. Like yours, it is disciple centric. Teachers and disciples must be compatible and communicate by phone and meet several times per week.
When they have grown enough, the disciples become teachers to new disciples while remaining disciples of their teachers. Eventually, the group branches off with teachers and disciples.
Each group may have a deacon, as they are called in my denomination, who checks on each member of the group every week and helps learn about and meet their needs.
I've been calling these 'cell' groups, but I think I'll change it to 'disciple groups'.
When the core group branches, they have corporate meetings for Sunday Worship and sermons by the pastor. (corporate just means all the members of all the cells being at the same time and place.)
Having been in 5 or 6 churches that tried "small group ministries", I have come to the conclusion that an established B&M Church cannot convert to small group churches. The reason is the mentality. People don't want to change and they are established in the church. All the attempts I experienced did not focus on discipleship, but tried to either control the teachings, or to have untrained leaders teaching using audio/video courses.
Disciple Groups are a new mentality. It's a commitment on both parties and with God. The purpose is to use a structured approach to train the disciple and for that disciple to train another. Disciples and teachers must be properly paired for it to work.
Most of what I see on the Internet today, are people who are in rebellion against "organized religion" wanting to be like the early church and meet in homes. Their pastors then want to know how to get a full-time paycheck from a congregation of 20 members. Several, if not many, are becoming micro-cults as they don't understand the scriptures so they don't preach the Truth.
The early church met in homes AND in the Temple, (And I think I read somewhere, in the synagogues.) Pastors could preach at corporate worship and visit home ministries the rest of the week for breaking of bread and teaching.
I could write for hours, there is so much, but I need to sleep, too, LOL.
I believe that a church started with and expanded by discipleship groups can work in the US and I long for the day I find one.
Thank you for sharing. I believe you are right on target. I've been envisioning something similar also. I think this might be the right time in human history for this type of Christ-following network of believers to start up. People are tired of 'cattle call' type churches where people just file in and out in masses never speaking or developing real relationships with each other. Small groups don't work either. It's a bandaid on people's heart hurt and need for real Christian relationship and fellowship where they can grow in Christ and make life-long freindships that will carry into eternity.
No worries - I love these conversations. Let me respond with some questions to consider. One, does outreach have to include inviting someone to another place? While gathering is great, I don't think that has to be seen as required. Why not live your faith out in normal everyday environments. Soon you may have 2 or 3 more friends hanging around and without even trying you have formed a new group - naturally (which is far better than forced).
Good presentation. Made me think more about the issues we face in starting groups in our church plant. Lots of choices but few correct answers IMHO.
Hey Matt. Thanks for the comment. I trust that God will lead you exactly where he wants you to be. For me it's about creating environments that enhance relationships. Both our relationship with God and our relationships with the people around us. Also I believe it is about helping people be able to multiply these types of environments in a natural way.
A great book that explains about small groups is 'Mission for Groups'.
Thanks for the feedback, Phillip. Keep me posted as you experience this with your gathering of the church.
The "not ready to lead" issue is a major issue in our structures today. Many may disagree with me, but I don't think you need a lot of training to lead - especially if we believe the Holy Spirit is our true leader. The beauty of staying in your initial group while you begin your own group is you keep your connection with those who can help you continue to grow along the way. This may need more conversation, so feel free to reply here.
Good info. Thanks for sharing.
Hi Tonya! Thanks for the reply.
Brilliant! This is exactly the multiplication method advocated by Peter Farmer in his book 'Pioneer Mission'.
Hi Will! I'm not familiar with Peter's book, but it sounds like I should check it out! Thanks for the comment. Are you part of a movement that looks like this?
mabye you can see this movie :
ruclips.net/video/jnRKs4_E8ks/видео.html
i have one small group now, and we grow, so we need to separate now. ;)
Second question (regarding leadership) what do we see in Scripture regarding leaders? Is it specific knowledge or is it more about your character? Is it about intellect or love for God and people? Is it about position or transparency? A friend recently asked whether I felt more vulnerable towards sin being "away from al larger church structure." The truth is I feel less vulnerable now because I can be much more transparent then those on staff at a church. Why? (Continued in next comment)
Yeah, that's valid. I guess when I talk about making sure leaders are ready, I am talking more about the need for Biblical qualifications laid out in the letters to Timothy and Titus for elders. Not necessarily that they all need to be the best teachers, but that they need to still meet a standard.
Hi Dave, I appreciate your video. I am doing a lot of thinking lately about house churches. It is now 2020 and this video is almost eight years old. So now, with eight years experience, how is it working out? Do you still have the same pattern? Is it working? Would you change any thing? Are you now overseeing a hundred small churches? If it's not working, then why not? What are your current thoughts?
I haven’t been to this page in awhile. Thanks for your questions. They are actually a good challenge/encouragement to me. Here are my answers. 8 years in I’d like to see more fruit, but the truth is I’m not tracking all of the groups that may have grown out of this one. What I can say is we have had people (great friends!) who have moved away from our area and they are now leading groups in their new locations. These are relatively new/young groups, but my prayer is they will continue to grow and multiply and continue to spread the Good News of God’s grace. We’ve also had a couple move back to China and while that can be a very difficult place for believers, they are continuing to grow and gather with others. And there are some who are involved with multiple groups in our area. So, yes, we continue to see it ”work”.
As to following the same pattern, I’ve gotten a little lazy here. While I have encouraged those in our current group to grow and consider this multiplication in the past, I’ve not been as intentional more recently in equipping and encouraging them to continue to grow and consider this. I guess I’ve gotten a bit comfortable with our group. Your questions are giving me fresh empowerment to get back to my calling as expressed in the video, for the purpose of seeing all of us continue to grow and reach those around us!
I don’t think I would change anything currently, but that does not mean we would never change things.
I’m not overseeing more than just my couple of groups, as my desire is not to oversee, but to equip and set free to go and spread the Gospel. That does not mean that I’m not available for those who need me, but the truth is the groups “down line” from our original group would likely not know me at all. And I think that’s great! They have others who are equipping them.
I hope this helps, and I do appreciate the questions.
Hi Brad, thanks for the question. What you're bumping up against is a difference between attempting to make this part of an institutional structure vs it being its own structure. In the institutional structure we often ask/expect people to be in more than one group. Most structures have multiple weekly events. So, if you try to ADD this to an already full "church" calendar, then most won't have time for this. However, of this is your primary structure then 2 groups at a time is not that hard.
Professor Dunbar recently published a paper on the most efficient factors in mens groups. He concluded there were five, namely 5 people (no more, no less), 90 minutes, twice a week, in a public place, with action of some kind. Sponsored by ......Guinness.
There is a great new book that explains about this 'Mission for Groups'.
Good teaching! i can use some examples!
God bless.
Daniel Hamidovic thanks for the feedback!
ANY IDEAS on to connect the dots and find a small home group??? After seeking decades - no luck. Tried putting out a local flyer and get told im gold-digging - The majority is BS denom churches who dont like it, gotta keep the paycheck ya know.
(Con't) Because like it or not most on staff know that if the stumble and are found out they will probably lose their job. I know we don't like to think of our ministry as a job, but if that's where you get a paycheck, it is. I'm opening all kinds of cans of worms now. :-)
How do you integrate this with an existing brick-and-mortar church? Could you replace a church congregation with the "core group" and just have everyone meet up every Sunday at church?
Slavwave, I doubt you could do this successfully. I think that is why Jesus said you cannot put new wine into old wineskins. The traditional pastor driven, auditorium style, pew sitting spectators type church is the old wineskin. Besides, then each of the home churches would have the burden of supporting the 'mother ship' and be tied to its control.
This can be difficult, but not impossible. It is hard for people to un-learn habits, and like it or not, the way we are used to doing “church” is a habit. However, when people experience deeper community and deeper relationships that come through that community, they will want more of it. I would start slowly. I would find those who would agree with this video and are willing to give it a shot. Again, as I said in the video, this takes time and it is NOT a race to see how fast we can get there. Focus on building the deeper relationships not on how quickly you can multiply.
As far as continuing to gather the church on Sundays, I’m all for it. But I also believe we are just as much the church gathered when we are in our community groups.
Also part of the reason for the multiplication by division idea is that the groups grow by people inviting their friends. What if I'm a member of a group, but I'm not ready to break off and be a leader so I'm only in one group, and say this group is already quite large. Too large to keep growing and still remain a *small* group. What do I do with my friend? Do I try to convince him to go to a group where he knows no one?
Btw, I'm not trying to debate, I genuinely am seeking your advice. Thanks
Again, somehow just seeing this question, but will reply either for your benefit or for others. If the group has grown to be that large, my question would be, “Have we really been discipling people to multiply?” I am currently experiencing exactly what you’re asking about here. So, I have to evaluate how well I’ve been discipling my current group to multiply. The truth is if we’re growing larger and larger over time and haven’t already seen people step out to start their second group, then we’re not really following this model. What you’re describing, and I’m currently experiencing, is where it will go naturally without an intentional effort to mature and multiply as I have described in the video. That’s on me (or you as the catalyst for starting such a group). We need to be discipling, encouraging and reminding our groups of our goals to spread the Gospel in this way. Which means we must disciple well, and continue to encourage people that they have the same Spirit within them and they can do this.
One more question, is the Spirit able to use us in spite of our weaknesses? I sure hope so. I do believe we mature in our faith (and that is the role of our primary group - to help is mature so we can then disciple others. I don't think our primary problem is a potential bad leader nearly as much as it is millions of passive believers who use all sorts of excuses to not follow the Great Commission. Jesus didn't tell the disciples to wait until they were good leaders. He simply told them to w
David, thank you for posting this. I am a leader in my church's small group structure (not a Simple church, but we're using small groups similar to how you describe it). I have a couple questions though and would love your feedback. I agree the multiply by division method gets a lot of resistance. But for one thing, I am afraid that too many people would not have the time/be willing to be active in 2 groups. Can you speak to this?
Brad Travelpiece Somehow I am just seeing this question. I have no idea where you are at today, but I’ll reply anyway in hopes of being helpful to you or there who read this. It’s a valid question - will people commit to two nights - and I have found this to be a bit of a challenge, but I think the bigger challenge is helping people believe they can do it. It’s more a lack of confidence versus a lack of time. Many people in “church world” already spend way more than one night a week attempting to keep church programs running. If that is the case, it may be helpful to evaluate all of the different things we’re committed to and determine where we believe God is leading us to focus our limited time resource.
That question was more about just inviting people. Say I am in a group of 12 people, and that is what we have said will be our group's max. Say 4 of them have broken off and become leaders (which could be a relatively high number, especially if the group is young). But maybe I'm not one of those 4 that have broken off, but I have a friend who I want to invite to small group with me, but my group is already too big and won't be splitting. If I'm not ready to lead, I've lost my outreach potential
And again, just to be clear, I don't know how this is coming across, but none of this is meant to be "standoffish" or as if I'm debating or anything. I'm not trying to win an argument with ya... I'm genuinely curious as to your thoughts, cause I'd love some input on this stuff :)
I understand that, but the Bible is also clear that we are to have clear guidelines as to who is qualified to be an elder... those who are our leaders. Sure, perhaps the training process doesn't need to be as exhaustive as it sometimes is, but at the same time I don't see it as wise or God-honoring to let just anyone loose as a leader who is willing, you know?
I went to a church and it split because of a disagreement between the Pastor and the elders but it created two churches and then the pastor's church split so there were three churches it works well they always eat together at church. I believe that the way things are going we will have to meet this way as the Government has many laws on the books to persecute Christians one of them are the Noahide laws signed into law by George H. Bush anyone can Google them and there is the fact we are classified as terrorists so home churches will be the way in the coming tribulation.
Interesting perspective... Lets say you start the "true" multiplication method and it grows, maybe even say it grows rapidly. You start in one group and by God's grace launch another. Then that particular individual that started in one group and then also leads another is inherently stuck into those two small groups indefinitely. Might sounds like a good idea but being with the same group long-term, with no new people coming in, has its own problems. Then after two multiplications you aren't even making disciples in your small group because no new people are added from what I understand with this model. I have personally found it easier to cast a vision to help people overcome the distaste for "typical" multiplication than dealing the downstream effects of "true" multiplication (lack of leaders, stale groups, no new believers in a lot of groups, etc). We need to be careful not to be overly reactionary to peoples likes and dislikes. That can lead us down some dangerous paths. Overall interesting perspective. Thanks for sharing!
Tyler Faust Hi Tyler, I appreciate your thoughtful reply. I would say this is the underlying model for true growth. It does not prohibit new people from joining a group, but it does encourage those within the group to be thinking missionally, overused word but accurate, from the beginning. Over time, those going out and planting a new group, may fade from the original group, as well.
Think about our biological families. Is it detrimental to stay connected long term to your parents, assuming this a healthy relationship? How about staying connected to your spouse and children? I don't think staying connected long-term to healthy small groups is detrimental, either. This is what allows true trust and depth of relationship to take place.
I'm not saying this is the only way to structure small groups. I am saying I'm living this out now in my life, and I have the most healthy community I've ever had. I trust the Holy Spirit to lead each of us to where He wants us to be, to experience life as Jesus revealed it to us - full and abundant.
Thanks for the reply!
Thanks for the reply! How do the people in your church respond to having two nights of the week taken up primarily with small group (that would be a capacity problem for many of our leaders I would assume)? I guess our model is more traditional, by your definition, but we seek to maintain authentic, healthy relationships with people in our small groups even during multiplication or splitting the traditional way. The goal obviously being two health multiplied groups at the end of the traditional model. How do you implement leadership training for your future or potential small groups leaders?
Tyler Faust I appreciate the conversation. Since the initial small group is effectively their training group, this is where the new leaders (or hosts, or admin) people are originally developed. Once one starts their own group, they continue to be part of their original group - they continue these relationships and continue to be disciples/mentored.
Every small group leader will spend at least one night in preparation for leading their group - why not do this preparation in community (in their original group)? In my current specific situation, the group I lead now has four other groups that have grown out of it. The original group is the place where these leaders still gather as prep for their own groups. So, the "additional time" issue isn't really true. Our leaders just do their prep time in community together.
This also allows them to bring issues that their new group may encounter back to our original group to get our thoughts on issues. We're all continuing to help each other grow.
Another advantage of not leaving your original group when you go start your own, is not all small groups "succeed" (take root). By having never left their original group, a new leader already has a place to return (because they never left), regroup, and give it another shot. Sadly, when a group does not take root, often the leader who attempt to plant that group now feels alone. This model helps avoid that situation.
I hope this help!
For a great house church handbook, google ONE by Henry Hon.
Thanks, pulled up his book and the website and will definitely be looking into further!
Gotcha, I see what you're saying. Hmm...
Blog - Project Relevant dot com backslash blog
Yeah, I certainly am not relying on degrees. But there still is a tension to balance between letting someone learn as they go and sending someone out who is genuinely not ready. We've gotta thread that needle.
I have never seen your model. What I have seen is the group falls apart and another is formed taking its place. They are so fragile, people so migrant, and the goal so vague, that the model is not at all like a model family. Everyone came from parents and some with children. Groups typically are formed, fall apart, reformed, fall apart, reform. etc. I can trace my family back generations. Small groups, not so much true, perfect, or even realistic Still, nice ideas and graphics.
Hi Jerry! I’ve had your same experience in the past, but the same can be said for our biological families. We may be able to trace our roots way back, but that does not mean it’s a health family. People can be difficult (myself included). But this does not mean we give up. What I am currently experience in our group is fantastic and has been going for eight years. Even with people moving away, what we see is them re-creating this where God has moved them. Here’s what I’ve found - a good meal to share breaks down barriers and brings people closer together. A solid focus on the Gospel of God’s grace and all that Jesus has done for us. We encourage each other on the good times and the rough times. A desire to really get to know each other (this is scary at first - it takes time to build trust). Look for these things and I believe you will find a community you will want to be a part of for a long time...and will want to help reproduce.
This year (2016) I have begun daily writings at www ShatteredByTheGospel dot com
then we have to ask why this isn't working too well? of course some members of the family never do leave home, some might leave home, but never get married or have children, they live alone. so the family model is not 100$ working
It may be “working” better than you think. No, you won’t see advertisements and big buildings, but that’s the point. What you will see is people connecting with their friends and neighbors in deeper ways. Sure every family has some level of disfunction, and so do our spiritual families. But that doesn’t mean it’s not “working”.
Stop over analyzing. Just start a house church and see how it goes.
Ditch the building, the 501c3, salaries and titles. 👍🏼 stop taking people’s money.
I’m just seeing this, Jonathan. Sorry for the late reply. I understand your sentiment, but would like to respond by saying that I realize money can be a sticky subject for many, especially when it is connected with spiritual things. I’m not looking for or asking anyone for financial support, but I do believe in giving generously so that the Gospel of God’s grace can continue to be shared with a hurting world. At the risk of opening Pandora’s box, I believe the tithe (giving 10%) is old covenant law (Jesus said it was Law when rebuking the Pharisees) which as new covenant believers we are not under. Romans tells us, Jesus is the end of the Law for all who believe. Jesus said a new command I give to you, “As I have loved you, love one another.” What see under this new covenant is a people desiring to give generously as they are able. I love being able to give when I see real need - wherever I see it.
So, I think I understand where you’re coming from, and I agree there can be a lot of financial waste within religious circles, but I would still encourage all believers to look for ways they can help others, including by giving financially, when they see a need.
Take a look a t No Place Left. T4T