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Palia's Housing and its issues
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- Опубликовано: 12 авг 2024
- Today we’re talking about Palia’s housing as shown off in last week’s gameplay stream. A lot of things were shown, so let’s talk about what we’ve learned and what was talked about.
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Instanced housing? As a person who played Free Realms for years I see this as an absolute win!
I only play games with instanced housing.
Non-instanced housing is awful.
I dont mind the housing wait times as much as the principle and general design philsophy that it suggests the game might adopt that concerns me. If it all goes the mobile direction ill be out.
If the idea is to charge people to build faster then I'm out also but I don't think this is there intentions.
I don't mind that as much, as long as its not like you have to wait on a lot of things at the same time that could prevent you from progressing in the game. If its just the house I have to wait on, its fine I go do something else in the mean time. But that's my opinion ofc.
They throw in sliders here and not in character creation?
How did I miss that?
I'm sure they will eventually add those, games nowadays have character creation standards, and this feels a bit short. The good news? You can change the looks of your character by the looks of it at any time as shown in the 1 hour video, but it seemed more like hair, and outfits. If they will allow you to change your face/body and customize everything again from 0, that is the real question.
EQ2 had layering of objects which made my house infinitely more cool with a fountain half in the wall or upside down lamps and mirrors etc etc etc
The wonders of the Z axis, and allowing item clipping. I loved it in many games I've played.
I saw the 4 hour wait timer and instantly was so upset. Most adults don’t have time to play 4 hours a day let alone wait 4 hours for a PART of their house in game to be done. I get a small timer for crafting (5 min?) but 4 hours??
Omg I didn’t notice the 8 hour wait time on the hover over!! wtf!
Sadly it seems the game is catering the casual players. Those that have 1-2 hours to play and log in after 1 or 2 days. That's how community sim games are, not for the hardcore 20 hour game sessions. Which makes me sad.
@@redxivmods Even then an 8 hour wait time makes no sense. I’ve been playing Stardew for almost 7 years, and ACNH since launch, both are for casual players. ACNH does have wait times but they allow people to skip ahead if that’s their play style. I don’t see how an 8 hour wait for what seems to be the main aspect of the game (housing) is okay. Unless it’s how they plan to make money which will piss people off more
@@ChiiBomb Not saying it's ok, I hate it lol. Time gating is horrible.
so what exactly is the problem? you say you have no 4h but play games like this for years? how does that work. You build a House Part and when you log on next time it is done.. i dont realy see why this would be bad. You wont have everything in this Game on Day one. Sounds like people are being pissed just to be pissed about something
Having come from FFXIV's ward housing, I'm glad Palia has chosen the instanced option so that every player can get a house.
In FFXIV ward housing is limited. Especially when it comes to medium and large plots.
Before FFXIV introduced the lottery system, botters and RMTers would near instantly snatch up all the desired plots.
Even the random placard timers which were introduced before the lottery system only made the botting problem worse.
Also there were multiple years on NA servers, where there were not enough houses including smalls for players who wanted a house.
This has improved with more servers but yeah artificial scarcity for housing in a video game is stupid.
It'd be better if it was inspired on what ArcheAge had, or Ashes of Creation, where you can build your house on the open world, maybe have a timer linked to it to remove houses that are not being used after say 2 months of inactivity. Instanced housing in a community sim game, feels disconnected.
@@redxivmods FFXIV does have auto-demolition for houses which have not been entered for 45 days. But that still doesn't address the problem of supply especially when it comes to dream mediums/larges in desired locations.
I get that it would be cool to walk around neighborhoods and see other people's houses but artificial scarcity/gating housing in Palia seems worse.
I like Doiti's idea of having shared instanced neighbourhoods where friends can get together and build in the same instance.
@@zaetia im making a 2nd comment, don't want to be breaking NDA lol.
I know XIV, been playing since 1.0 and own 2 houses myself x)
All I'm saying is the purpose of the game is to be a community sim game (in the words of the developers "Massively Multiplayer MMO", sorry but I don't see anything Massive about 25 players), and by the looks of it from what we know, it's very limited. Capping instances to 25 people, you can't have venues with that kind of limitation, one thing I love of XIV is how the RP community creates content out of thin air because the game allows for it, but with 25 people, i don't know.
At least with non-instanced out in the world houses you'd be able to see other plots, we don't even know if there's going to be guild houses as there was nothing shown on the 1 hr stream for that :( and there wouldn't bee a limitation of how many houses can be built out in the world, as iirc Ashes of Creation allows you to put it anywhere you want. And I know how the visit system works but due to NDA I cant say anything about it :3
I agree to a point, but also dont break NDA. I would need to delete comments then.
Honestly, I've seen the problems of the Archeage system, the FFXIV system, and the purely instanced system. None of them are perfect, or even usually that good. Archeage led to land rushes when zones were opened that would leave later players either without a home or in places so terrible that they might not bother to go there. FFXIV didn't even have housing on my server that was available, so I needed to join a guild that I didn't care about to get a lousy apartment in their plot. SWTOR had a purely instanced system, but that was only the beginning of their housing system's faults. It left you feeling alone and devoid of connection to other players.
From what S6 has described, they seem to be going down the SWTOR path, which is likely the worst for community but best for housing. Honestly, I think this is a terrible decision, with a better one being to combine the Instanced system with the FFXIV system in some way. Create smaller instanced housing locations that act as communities in their own right. In the video, I expressed wanting 4-5 person communities, and this is mostly to tackle some of the issues of all of the housing systems we've had. With that said though, it would be much better to have these communities be much larger, but I doubt that would be realistically doable under the circumstances.
Basically, there are no perfect answers.
Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts, and for not breaking NDA
@@DoitiEtokNews I agree with your points, however, we're thinking you're joining an instance with 25 people per zone. I don't know if they're going to increase that number however, if that'd be the case then and only then there'd be enough space as it's still instanced but in the open world. That brings other problems however, since what would happen if your friend dropped their house in one instance, and you put it in another one, then if the AI thing they're using to join your friends would need to know who has their house where which could lead to problems if 2 players dropped their house on the same location.
What I'd love to see however, would be Wards like in XIV, but each house (Large / Medium to choose, no small) would have different instances you could preset to load, say, your friends. Your house would always show your instanced house decorations, but if you chose to be in ward 1, and your friends also chose that ward, the AI could load those by default unless you expressly change it.
Say, housing, when you enter the Apartment selector window would load, once selected, it'd load the selected house decorations / settings.
This would be the best of both worlds. You have the neighborhood, enough space for everyone, and housing instanced so server resources are saved, encouraging the community aspect of the game.
We need something innovative, not just a copy-paste we've seen over and over. Right now it seems like it's coop instead of MMO.
I hate the timers from crafting and house building. This seems to be an incredibly divisive issue among the Palia community and I don't understand why it is. To me, it unfairly punishes players with busy schedules. Plus, as you suggested they could have added a much more immersive building mechanic. People say, well if they don't add timers, people will rush through gameplay. This can also be prevented by adding content, or adding a step by step building system that is much more rewarding.
I also love the idea of having instanced small communities.
On the gameplay side, during my first reaction to the stream I talked about an idea that might be the best middleground for players who don't want to collect. Essentially you keep the timers as they are, but that is the "maximum build time." If you want it built faster, you do the step by step building at your own pace. I wonder how people would react to this, since at least in my mind it allows for many playstyles to get the same results from building.
Also, thanks for watching and for taking the time to share your thoughts!
paying for rush: game creator love time
same with fitness and nutrition : sell you stuff to be fit and lose fast quickly.. cause eating well everyday and exercising everyday for 0$ (and cheaper avoiding unessential junk, staple food is cheap).. so paid to get fit and healthy? or pay to buy scam and "dream to lose weight by paying" instead of losing weight for real and getting paid (paying yourself for the cake you didnt buy)
You just said what I have been saying since the early alpha tests. It feels like a cellphone game with timers. The game is fun but the timers make it something that will keep it from being a main game.
Definitely a bit disappointed by the chosen implementation of instanced housing. I would have liked them to go the LOTRO route and do instanced neighbourhoods, that way you could build next to friends and all hang out together while still accessing your own resources etc.
I can see them changing the wait times to a lesser amount but I dont see them getting rid of them all together, It is a way to make games seem longer than the content available, also Even though they have already exclaimed that nothing but clothing options would be available for purchase with real money.. at some point if enough people start asking for a way to speed up builds, I can see them putting that in, there are plenty of gamers out there who are Very willing to throw money at games to speed them along
I don't really see why people complain about the waiting times. In Stardew Valley for example, constructing buildings also takes time, multiple in-game days for most buildings. And everyone is fine with that. It's not like there was nothing to do while you wait for your house to be constructed, so I personally really don't see an issue with that.
However, being able to spend money in order to shorten these wait times is a step towards monetizing gameplay features, which I do strongly dislike ^^
In stardew, you can just sleep to skip the timer. You can't really do that in an always online game. It also comes across as either lazy or predatory game design, especially when the alternative to timers is to make the game more fun to play instead of telling the players that they now cant do that thing they wanted to for 4-8 hours.
@@DoitiEtokNews I definitely see your point that the waiting times are a little long, and the idea of gathering resources for the flooring, walls, ceiling etc does indeed sound nicer, but I don't at all agree that the waiting times are that big a thing. I just did other things while waiting, and at some point came back to happily look at and start decorating the new part of my house.
Also, in stardew you cannot sleep to skip the entire timer, as there are other things you *need* to do, like feeding animals, watering crops, etc. In my Palia experience so far, there were definitely enough other things to do while waiting for your house to finish.
Do agree on the lazy design point tho, there are definitely better ways to go about this
@@tetwa9350 30 minutes for 2 days versus hours. Or sleep the days away.
I mean, I didn’t know this before I placed my house but luckily I was playing before bed so I just let it run and went to sleep! I played the next afternoon and it was done so I’ll definitely be doing this for future house upgrades!
The time gating is really inconsiderate to working adults, younger people still in education, we just don't have that sort of time. But as long as there isn't a way to pay for it to be quicker, I guess I'll endure.
They should get rid of the timer aspect and make it like building a house in Skyrim.
I was the one that made the feedback thread of the village type housing that gained traction. Fingers crossed for the future!
I like the art direction, lovely looking houses. That said, I see nothing to win over the time I plan to invest in enshrouded.
It's 8 hours for large room. How did you get those bay windows? I don't see that option.
I don't have a problem with the build wait times. Maybe something that will seem like serious thought and planning went into it, and a sense of accomplishment when it's finished. Three days to add on a room where it would be three months in real time?
As someone who grew up near amish territory, I can say that if you got people and want to make a house, you can do it in a few days. Im betting if I put them to a race against Palia's timers to make 1 empty 11x11 room, they'd probably win.
Actually since 1 day is 1 hour irl, then taking 8 hours or 8 in game days to build a house seems more likely to real life. Just adds to the experience and the satisfaction is nice.
They know exactly what they're doing, and I imagine they're baking things like crafting wait times in to get extra $$$ options.
I can see tying the crafting timers to in game skills and having it be fine. But I will agree that it is an area that can be exploited for monetization. I think the longest timer I was ok with in an MMO style game was 12.5 minutes, which could be lowered by a few minutes if you leveled the profession, but that was for making some of the best endgame stuff in it. If they're following a similar model, it could be ok in my eyes.
Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment.
@@DoitiEtokNews If that's what they go for, I'll agree with you. Considering we still don't know for sure I'm just being cautious. I really don't want them to botch this, but time will tell...
@@SuicidalImpulse They have stated that they won't do any P2W, in this case you won't be able to buy speed ups from the cash shop. But then again, other companies have said the same and we know where that always ends. Only time will tell.
game like farm together where real time needed. I kinda like the idea of it. i hope there is a way also you can lower the timer.
It would make sense to lower the timer through some sort of skill, whether as a byproduct of the Furniture Making skill or through some other skill they add in the future related specifically to structure building and maintenance. I do like the idea of adding more elements for the construction process, such as mini-games in several discrete sections to show progression of construction. Maybe these will be things they add to the game after launch or through the Beta. Either way, excited to see how it develops.
house placement decor works more like free realms lol
I would like it to be communities I would love to have neighbours you could get to know and then if the community suddenly seemed to be empty you could move to another active one :)
I've been playing Palia for two days and I will say that with housing the biggest issue is the timers. The last straw for me is when I saw a hallway blueprint say it was going to require 8 hours to pop into existence. This also doesn't take into account the amount of time you already have to spend farming the gold for said blueprint (3000 gold), farming the raw mats, and waiting for the raw mats to be turned into planks and bricks. It's far too much for what I thought would be a casual exploration/gathering/crafting/decorating game.
Also side note; from what I've seen you cannot sell furniture. This feels like a huge oversight to me. Why should I not be able to sell excess furniture I do not want? Farming gold in this game already feels meh.... the least I could get is 100 gold for an ugly nightstand I wasted materials on, especially considering you unlock more crafting recipes BY crafting. But no, guess we all will have to continue selling bugs/flowers for 10-20 gold a piece and hope we get some good pearl RNG
Honestly, this. Why can't we sell the furniture we make? Literally every other skill in the game, allows you to sell the output for gold, Furniture Making is the ONLY skill who's item's can't be sold. I mean, they already have clearly priced the furniture, as you can buy the very furniture that you can make, from Tish's shop, so they already have a working buy price for these.
So why we can't sell them for 1/4 of the asking price in Tish's shop is really weird to me... Why is there a skill in the game, that can't make you gold? I simply don't get this.
@@bluekat7712 I personally also find the fact that our items only sell for 1/4 of the price of NPCs to be kind of bs haha there is no in game player economy, no trading.... nothing, so what is the point of limiting gold to that extent? This game has time and gold walls left and right to hinder your progress in simply enjoying what the game was ultimately designed for- decorating a house. I extra kind of feel done after finally having enough gold to buy a small room blueprint only to realize that it is a one time use item. Idk though. I've been trying so hard to submit feedback through their site and even on the Palia discord.... so hopefully some things can change so that this game can truly be the casually enjoyable, chill game I think a lot of people expected it to be.
A bit late to the party, but this just makes me miss Wildstar's housing all over again.
Well, i have no issues if they make an option for paying to have no timer for a room. In the end the game is free to play and producing hosting and developing the game also costs money + they want to deliver us fresh content in a constant way. so without money, they can´t do that.
i think it is very fair to take money for simple things like a reduced timer, as we also need to gather the materials for the next room and also crafting maybe needs copper. to be honest: even Eco has a mechanic like that, while you need to wait to craft all the blocks for building a room/house as every workbench needs time to produce and better things need more material and time. So with a good planning (starting to build a fresh room before going to bed can be a routine as you always need to gather material first and maybe doing some quests before).
My point is clear: I have no issues with paying for things like that as in most building-simulations (sims doesn´t count xD) you need to wait until your material is produced. In the end we all want to have a nice game to dive in for years, but that doesn´t work with only selling some cloth, as most people have one "gown" until the server dies (saw this in several games for centuries now, and myself even in Disney wear always the same thing - only changing for Dreamsnaps).
Especially with a full-time job this timer is no issue, cause you can build up when you are not at home or sleeping. And if i want to build something instant i have no issue to pay for it, cause when i go to the bar and drink something i will spend less time as for decorating this room. I always see the relation of the price when i go out. Well, but we are all clear here, that i mean to a fair price (!) like 5 € for every room (so the small won´t be 2 € and the very big room 10 €). I have also no issues if they start to sell instant grow (if people want to spend money why not?) and i have also no issues if there will be a section at the auctioneer with this items, so people can choose if they want to spend cash or gold. That was something I liked at ArcheAge, while they broke the game with a lot of p2win-shit - but getting Apex for buying some cash-shop-items was cool. In the end Singularity 6 can also prevent china-farmers from being here while people purchase the gold directly vs. item they want to put for real money to the auctioneer.
Well, i was playing "real"MMO´s before since 2003 based on a monthly fee about 20 € and no f2p was available yet (and everywhere i almost bought one yalm or mount or something in the optional-cash-shop because i fell in love with something what i already had, but not in this style). I saw also models like in BDO, ArcheAge and Allods Online where you need to buy things or game won´t make fun with a very small inventory, not plot or no Life/Damage without a constant cash-shop-buff. And Disney....well atm. you get most Moonstones back, but if they change something the prices are much higher than everything - straight said xD.
Sorry for the wall of text, but while i saw nearly everything - i give this model so far until now an AAA+ as the clothes are optional - and even if they make instant-room-cash-shop-items it is also optional to have one more room as it is not necessary for gameplay or crafting in general (you only have a smaller house until the next day). Developing a game costs money and i´m glad Singularity 6 started Palia - as i knew their work from the early WoW-Days and BC was the best addon ever made and everyone who played misses. So I understand that they need to make some money to provide a good game as this is a very new project + MMO have constant monthly costs like power and lines for the servers etc..
I don't know, it's becoming clear to me over the years that if I want player housing the likes of EQ2 or Aion, I will have to play those games. Player housing in the games over the years has dropped off a cliff
I just want devs to learn from the successes of past games. There's no reason that games from the late 90s through the 2000s should realistically be so much better in terms of practically every design decision. But it still happens.
@@DoitiEtokNews yeah but that is the sad reality I am starting to realize. I 100% agree. I don’t get why games I was playing back in the early 2000s had player houses down to a science and you jump to 23 and it’s like so basically it’s scary.
I don’t know, I guess I think back to playing those MMOs back in the day thinking. “Wow, if this is what we have now, I CAN’T WAIT to see what is in the future!”, I feel like I needed a magic 8 ball saying “outlook not so good” 😆
This game looks like this was all made by prefabs only. There was the program for novice game designers that had easy templates to copy and paste things with these specific graphics and this game looks like it for sure. The movement mechanics are extremely limited and janky. You can't swim for some reason. The time thing for crafting in general is stupid. I honestly don't see this game going too far over the years. Maybe it will bring a lot of players short term, but long term, absolutely not.
Aaahw i hoped it be like wildstar.. there youd make walls and furniture with anything... like jist 10000 planks or chests as wals
im wondering if youll still be able to see other players running around in the world while youre on your plot. im guessing not since its instanced
Typically you cannot see players outside of an instance if you're in it yourself, although I guess you could see outside players in SWTORs mission instances, so idk. My guess would be no.
The game is still in Beta. 🙃
I wish you could sell furnitures
Coming fro the closed beta the timers are 8 hours, and like everytime has times, crafting silver bars takes 3 hours, the 60 wood planks you would need for the house extension would take an hour. It is endless. It is a very grindy game filled with timers. And the housing editor is very bad, nothing special, they should have like you said look at past good examples like Wildstar, where you can place an item literally however you want, resize it, change you plots skybox, music, have mini games, etc. But this game has nothing to do, you can't even interact with furniture. There are plenty of other current MMOs, like FFXIV with better housing.
I didnt like it at first, having to wait 8 hours, coming back the next day to see my house but i kind of like it now. Ive been playing 12-16 hours a days since the closed beta started and its kinda satisfying to have it complete. Everything takes a while to craft. For instance, a glow worm farm takes 1 hour real time to get 1 glow worm. So i have multiple and can get many more over night. This also forces me to be more conservative with them, it changes the play style of the game. It does feel as though they are setting it up to be a pay to speed up time feature, but claim only cosmetics will be premium. If they do start charging to reduce time, then ill be deleting the game since ill feel at a disadvantage from other players. Great game, i hope it does well. You just have to grind to get anywhere and maybe thats what i really like about it. I spend a lot of time foraging, hunting, fishing, doing npc quests, etc. Online play is nice with friends but the instance housing plot isnt great right now, hopefully will change it to be more of a community thing like you were saying.
I should say it's not really about competition, though there is if your playing with friends, but more that it shows that the devs are more interested in making money then an actual fun game. I will not play any games that I feel only revolve around money. The content just feels bad and feel I'm forced to buy something. So about 95% of mobile games 😂.
Wait times to build is such a silly thing to complain about imo. Especially when you have things like Animal Crossing makes you wait until the next irl entire day for your builds that are insanely expensive. Wait times make the effort feel rewarding, and instantly being able to build things would get very boring very quick.
Idk, the furnishings look so fairytale basic and uninteresting. Doesn't excite me. Maybe I'm spoiled by ffxiv housing, which is amazing.
I like how many of them feel like a collection of stuff thrown together for a purpose, but I'm also hoping to see a larger variety of furnishings at release and after launch.
I know they can take time, so I'm hopeful.
@DoitiEtokNews yes, I hope so. Excited for the game no matter what, tho.
Sorry, but it seems you didn't do your research properly. You can actually disable the grid and place decoration where you want them without snapping.
And that doesnt fundamentally change anything about the decorating process. Snapping is just a simplified X,Y placement. Removing it doesn't suddenly add X,Y,Z placement?
Disabling the grid does change the decoration's placing behavior, preventing it from snapping to the default increment.
They didn't show in the stream that you can change the Y placement.
@@noripie8641 That'd be super cool if they allowed us to float items without the forbidden stuff, like in xiv (XIV doesn't allow it normally but there are ways around it).
I don't think they will allow us to freely place decoration without anything supporting it, since they might want to make it feel more realistic.
The main killer for me on this game is that the housing is in an instance rather than out in a real world where people can simply walk by your house and shit..they took a great idea of a game and simply made it stupid and boring....why?
Timer will be reduced under monetization
It's easy forehead, so that you can pay real world money to not have the timer.
howzing not how sing
so you work buy stuff and buiold everything to die and leave everything behind to your kids that abandoned and ignroed you
so its RL in mmorpg,. but you pay for pixel of color.
no wonder people buy NFT lol...
paying for rush: game creator love time
same with fitness and nutrition : sell you stuff to be fit and lose fast quickly.. cause eating well everyday and exercising everyday for 0$ (and cheaper avoiding unessential junk, staple food is cheap).. so paid to get fit and healthy? or pay to buy scam and "dream to lose weight by paying" instead of losing weight for real and getting paid (paying yourself for the cake you didnt buy)
Welcome to life. To make it even simpler: you're born, you do stuff that ultimately has no purpose, you die. That doesn't really mean anything though, as your life is the collection off purposeless stuff that you do. Some people strive to enjoy it, some pass it along, and some do nothing with it. Thus is the human condition.
HAVE YOU PLAYED IN ANY OF THE ALPHA TESTS, nO, WELL HOW ABOUT YOU JOIN THE BETA (NOT FULL RELEASE) AND HELP DEVELOP THIS GAME WITH THE REST OF US AND NOT JUST MAKE NEGATIVE COMMENTS ON A GAME YOU HAVE NOT PLAYED.
Yes I have, and I’ve submitted feedback. Thanks for asking.
I hate when people like you make all these negative comments on a game you have not played yet and on stop of that this game is not FINISHED !!! SO get your ass in beta HELP US BUILD THIS GAME from the inside not the fraking outside.
You know what I hate? People being toxically positive about games. People trying to shut down others opinions. And people assuming, wrongly so, that others haven’t played the game. I’ve been in multiple tests, helped people figure things out, and have gone out of my way to not just give feedback on systems as they are, but regularly communicate with other players to help test things. Have you played the game?
u complain alot lol