Ethical dilemma: What makes life worth living? - Douglas MacLean
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- Опубликовано: 19 окт 2024
- Puzzle through a classic ethical dilemma and decide: can human existence be meaningful without its creativity and culture?
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Life on your planet depends entirely on Nuronium for normal cognition. Unfortunately, its source has been compromised and you are now at risk of extinction. Scientists have found an alternate energy source, Polixate, but it can’t sustain cognition and would mean the loss of people's creativity. So, what shall it be: extinction or life without culture? Douglas MacLean explores this classic dilemma.
Lesson by Douglas MacLean, directed by Asparuh Petrov, Compote Collective.
This video was produced in collaboration with the Parr Center for Ethics, housed within the renowned Philosophy Department at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. The Parr Center is committed to integrating abstract work in ethical theory with the informed discussion of practical ethical issues, and prides itself on the development of innovative and inclusive approaches to moral and civic education.
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Whatever you'll choose, it's crucial to:
1. At least get Polixate while we can, even if we'll not use it
2. Obviously work on ways to preserve fertility with Nuronium
3. Immediately test Polixate on people who want it. Try to lower the side-effects of Polixate
4. Let people choose. Work on a way to allow both people who want to stay with Nuronium or chose Polixate to live on the same planet or solar system. At least build enclosed Nuronium-only and Polixate-only enclaves so both groups can live the way they want. Connect them via the Internet and some safe passage, so Nuronium users can continue to help people who chose Polixate for as long as possible
5. Create educational materials that allow Polixate users to learn the most important things in case of the total extinction of Nuronium users
6. Preserve copies of everything crucial all around the planet and in space, so people will eventually be able to rediscover it. In worst case scenario it'll take millions of years of evolution but humans have a chance to get smarter again
Correct me if I am wrong, it's a dilemma right ? So you have to make one of the choice. other options are not available.
It isn't a question with an answer, it is about an opinion on what is life.
Trying to actually solve the problem is not the point.
I am guessing you are an engineer, (joke) :))))
Fun thought experiment both you and original comment are right
Let's change the story a bit so a third option is not available: you would have to explode the comet for it's material to disperse in the atmosphere. Therefore, capture and preserve for later is not an option.
Do dilemmas really exist in life? There is almost always a third option) If it's a dilemma, I prefer survival because after millions of years of evolution it can lead to even better culture and intelligence. The option where we do nothing just leads to extinction @anandyadav-588
If you think about it rationally, in both scenarios culture and meaningful memories eventually disappear, yet in one life continues. I believe life in and of itself is valuable and beautiful, and I think that’s why people like observing nature and everything it has to offer. I also think part of the question has to do with how you want the species to be remembered, but no one will even be around to do the remembering.
People die eventually
but the thing is, we people like to "observe nature and everything it has to offer" because we give it a meaning. Why? Coz we are conscious and use our cognitive skills to give it meaning. Without it, it just... is. Things like value and beauty are part of higher cognitive skills, animals don't think about it.
For me the main complication is the existing humans. To me losing all higher brain function, memories, creativity, is tantamount to death. Would switching to Px cause that to happen to even the humans currently living? Choosing Px frankly seems more like mass murder than any strain of using and would
@@msliperbut just because there’s no one to experience the beauty doesn’t mean it isn’t beautiful. We would all die knowing we left behind something beautiful, instead of simply nothing
Art and culture are wonderful, but that doesn't mean life doesn't matter. It's great that there are people who don't look at this issue so... one-sidedly.
The personal value that culture and creativity has added to my life is immense. As a species were always looking out for our survival so it would make sense to choose Polixate. But the loss of beauty, art and creativity would isolate us from each other and kill us anyways. That's like becoming robotic. Surviving not living. Which is why I'm more inclined towards Nuronium. Also bearing the greater hopes that in the 100 years some other solution might present itself and our existing science might help us research on it .
Lots of people are surviving and not living now. Even with culture.
Furthermore, A lot of animals don't possess creativity and I don't hear you calling them robots.
@@yuvalbar1775those animals are not as intelligent as us or intellectually advanced, there creative capacity is not as developed which is therefore why we (humans) have a higher right to live then animals and although some animal species are very smart none are classified the same way as humans which makes us superior
I know this is supposed to be a philosophical question, but there is probably a way to contain the new resource in a way that does less harm to people's minds. In real life, we should find ways leave a choice in the moment, to leave more time for research in the future
@@Juniper6 who decided that we have a "higher right to live" than animals? what a load of nonsense. human constructs to justify human cruelty. we are not as smart or superior as we would like to think.
When I was in deep despair due to schizophrenia, I sought answer for suffering and meaning of my life.
After several years of struggling, I started getting better. Though I still have handicaps today, I'm pretty contented with my life without any meaning.
(In this video context) Would you subject your all descendants to that same schizophrenia? That is basically Px just milder yet thorough.
@@ultimaxkom8728Comparing the suffering of schizophrenia to the low cognitive happiness of Px doesn't make sense. One often comes with a lot of torture and a high suicide rate. The other is being like a happy pet.
Also the child of a schizophrenic parent has a 12% chance of also having schizophrenia.
@@ultimaxkom8728
It was kinda hard to decide one for me first.
For my happiness, I do enjoy learning and interaction with others, but seeking meaning of my life, if there is such thing, is not my thing. I accept myself as it is, including my deficiency and disability.
Also, for my happiness, I don't need family or children. Actually I've never wanted one for other reasons than schizophrenia, so there's no descendent for me. So I don't have to care about leaving anything for others after my life.
Since I don't think about the meaning of my life, I first thought to choose Px. But the world with Nuronium would serve my life with contentment more, I think.
I have schizo-affective and understand the struggle of anhedonia and the acute suffering that can happen to you: stay strong my friend! And I am so proud of you!
Stay strong 💕dear friend. You are worthy. Fighting with your battle. Take medicine properly. Don't bother about other people around you. Be happy with your mental health. Remember that you are not alone in this battle.
This is a very interesting dilemma, but I think I have to go with Polixate. Yes, we might not be able to keep our culture, and it's possible that doctor was wrong and that happiness would be lowered, but it's possible that at some point, we might be able to evolve and regain everything, after all, that's how some other species came to be, right? For example, insects gained larger sizes back in the past, but due to the oxygen being lowered, they changed back to nearly the very same form they were before, so it's possible we could discover one last bit of Neuronium, or a substitute, and regain the culture and everything!
But finding a "last bit" of Nuronium would still have the consequences as stated in the video that fertility rates will go down and the population would last only 100 years. Reducing concentration doesn't completely remove the problem. And if you find another source, since our creativity, memory and imagination will go away due to the use of Polixate, we wouldn't be able to use that source. We wouldn't even be able to remember the fact that our planet is sustained using Nuronium/Polixate or how they function. The very fundamental idea of the implementation of Polixate is the loss of evolution, so we won't be able to regain anything.
Or we could design artificial ecosystems which provided artificial natural selection which would selectively breed humans with the most cognitive capability until we evolve a human which can have the same cognitive capabilities (as with Nu) with Px. Then raise him and introduce him to preserved knowledge about everything humanity has discovered.
I agree, survival means infinite chances, but extinction just have no chances anymore.
@@zenedhyr7612 That relies heavily on the assumption of endless survival, which is impossible given that nature is merciless, and that mutations and diseases exist.
@@ultimaxkom8728 at least there is still a chance even endless survival near to zero, rather than nothingness. Is that the meaning of life? Can life have any meaning if you know you will gone extinct in 100 years without any hope whatsoever?
The difference between Nuronium and RL is that in RL we know human eventually gone extinct during judgement day/apocalypse, but we still don't know when. This uncertainty mixed with after-life salvation makes religion concept so successful throughout human history. In other hand, with Nuronium you know exactly when it gonna end, and that's make huge difference imo that did not mentioned in the video.
Ofc, some people will act differently about this certainty. Like someone with terminal disease will make many meaningful memories with their family for example.
I am on the side of Nuronium where I realize the importance of our precious lives. There are many things that I have learned, both important and unimportant, which show how big the ethical dilemma we are testing is and how difficult it is for us to face various trials and obstacles, which proves that we are truly human.
I think there's a path that can leverage both sides, and as conscious beings who are also capable of experiencing strong emotions -- we are that product. It's just many people are misguided and feel lost trying so hard to search for meaning, ignoring this other side of themselves in the process (experiencing happiness).
I'm on team nuronium.
In my opinion, humanity's history, cultur, imagination and memories are what making life worth living, not mindless reproduction.
agree
Yes right, consciously history, culture, creativity, and memories are making life meaningful. However, subconsciously our genes are telling us to reproduce that is to keep the genes exist forever.
without it we live like animals and it increase sufferings not happiness there is no meaning of life life form and extinct we should except it safe future generations from life full of scuffing@@kikou_
What about other species? Are their lives not worth living just because they don't have history, culture, imagination, creativity, etc?
What about our ancestors? If they didn't have "mindless reproduction", humanity wouldn't be here to have all those things in the first place.
Btw I don't care about picking side, just challenging perspective.
i understand but i choose not being born rather than live like our ancestors or any other animals that live in jungle that is why i choose that option @@nomnomyourmom
I love Ted ed cause it tells so many diverse topic
From philosophy to mythology
From science to religions
From war to conservation
The animation and narration
Everything is superb ❤
Love from India 🙏
_In the end, only three things matter: how much you loved, how gently you lived, and how gracefully you let go of things not meant for you._ ―Attributed to Siddhartha Gautama (the Buddha)
*_Without love and sense of humor there is unhappiness and life is meaningless._* 💕☮🌎🌌
The only thing any of us truly own in this terrifying world are the connections we make with each other.
Beautiful, except it is a fake Buddha quote.
wonderful, thank you.
As someone with schizoaffective disorder and OCD, I can say that creativity gives my life purpose, meaning, color. It allows me to explore connections with other people so that I am not so lonely. Obviously in a psychotic episode I am not very creative, but in between episodes, I need meaning in my life. Otherwise it is just not worth being alive.
I realize that my own personal preference shouldn't decide what's moral, but I can't see a world where people connect with each other, learn, and grow without culture, music, the arts. I feel we would be isolated zombies. Very lonely. Possibly end up killing each other if not ourselves.
Schizo😮🗿😨😱😱😳!?!???!
“Life is complicated. I killed people, smuggled people, sold people. Perhaps here, things will be different.” Niko Bellic
"I saved the world" - Other Niko
Trophy for whoever gets this obscure reference 🏆
Proceed to casually run over everyone on the sidewalk.
Brother your comment was highlighted and it got me in the first round 💀
Existential crisis doesn't mean compromising others lives. That is so twisted. That doesn't justify finding the meaning of life. I'd say if his life has no meaning then kill his own self things will be different for the lives of the people he took.
@@EEE-1409The character in my pfp, isn't it? :)
Im definitely on team Nuronium. Our mental capacity to imagine and come up with creative solutions to problems is what makes us truly human. Even if our species go extinct, we die out along with the rich culture cultivated for centuries. If we choose Px, we would lose the sense of living life to the fullest and succumb to millions of years of living with mediocre minds incapable of imaginative thinking
The outcome for society would nearly be the same, there is nothing glorious in extinction but Px offers the possibility of evolving into a new world however cruel it may be.
@@raph2k01 There would be no evolution with Px, only world full of suffering with no medicine or whatsoever to lessen it. I don't see how exactly can "every member contribute in small but constant ways to the betterment of their people" in society that lost the ability to preserve and multiply knowledge.
Everything one day has to end. There is something beautiful in going out on your own terms
@@raph2k01Why does it have to be our species though. We had our chance we did our thing it's time for us to go. Make way for other species to do the same. We just join the other 99% of others that have gone extinct too like we supposed to. Nothing special about us.
@@raph2k01 But there's no option of re-developing high cognition, as stated in the essay
I'm pro Polixate/Px. Animals also don't have (complex) culture but I still think their lifes do have meaning, and they can feel emotions like happiness or sadness.
They have meaning because WE give them meaning.
If we can't also do it for ourselves,nothing else will.
nowadays new studies and observations are coming that suggests there is culture in animals also. Especially among Elephants.
@@sivasankaransomaskanthan8264 that's why I said complex culture :)
I don't think this mosquito over here has anything else other than being a mosquito. You need the capacity to process meaning to have meaning and _"free will"._
@@ultimaxkom8728 but obviously there are not only mosquitos out there...
Once again, ted-ed has pulled off an amazing, beautiful and exuberantly awesome video that everyone admires and cherishes
It's some non sense. Snap out of it lol
Philosophical thought experiments are not nonsense. These kind of decisions are made by us all the time@@Heldan
@@Heldan Most intelligent Post-Px sapient:
Prime example of the kind of pseudo intellectual babble this chanel appeals to. Boring moral grandstanding that boils down to current year Americas left offensive politics and interesting logic puzzles that are actually just esoteric math weenie nonsense.
@@ultimaxkom8728I was going to be on the fence but your comment changed my mind. Definitely picking Nuronium😅👍
I side with nuronium. Because even if we live for a short time we should live to the fullest. And hoping for a better future is what gives us happiness. We all go through problems in daily life and to all the people struggling like me out there:- "You've got this !!!". 😃❤.
Choosing Nuronium given the context of this video is to choose no future at all, for that future is extinction. So I would argue that this choice isn’t in accordance to your reasoning though.
@@DucHoang1112 The same goes to Px; it will also lead to no future and definitive extinction just with a very long delay. Either by disease, competition, disaster, or mutation.
@@DucHoang1112The value of life isn’t derived from what our species as a collective will amount to in the future. It has value right now. That our cars or everything we use on a daily basis shall one day end up rotting away in a junk yard some day in the future doesn’t imply those things have no value right now. My car gets me from point A to point B, and it serves that purpose right now, and that’s all that matters. I see absolutely no reason to care whatsoever whether my species as a whole will some day come to be extinct. The species isn’t a holistic entity of value independent of the value of each individual member that comprises the species anyway, so if extinction comes about through failing to reproduce the next generation, what can possibly be intrinsically bad about this?
@@johnchesterfield9726 That last half is what I would disagree on, even if I'm pro Nu in here. Human legacy is a responsibility... and I reached my YT self-imposed word limit.
@@ultimaxkom8728 yeah nobody can live for eternity
Some where life is cease to exist
Death is in our fate wheter we choose px or nu
so why not choose nu which gives us meaning to live and we might develop some kind of tech which would be the best alternative to nu cuz its for our survival
All people will be united and will work for same goals
This is basically asking which one is more hopeful:
To keep the culture and achievements, and possibly use them to develope a method to resolve the matter,
Or to begin again, pass the torch to the next generations which may evolve again to the hight they once were.
I think more conditions are needed to make the decision.
honestly no dilemma here for me: nuronium would be the obvious choice. it's interesting though to read the other views on this, makes me realize just how differently we think and approach life which is so cool except when we're at each other throats because of it
Exactly, no dilemma for me. It is very arrogant to think that only a particular "way" of living is worthy, it is totally subjective and counter-intuitive. Life must be preserved, otherwise it is simply genocide.
I value consciousness above living, I think it's the greatest gift I could've ever received from anyone. Thanks mum and dad. I didn't always believe this though.
Gratitude is the second 😉
I bet this guy is a beautiful mf.
An undeniably evocative conundrum... This will definitely have me scratching my head for a while.
Thank you, TED-Ed! Keep up the amazing work.
My initial thought was that we have a subsection of people on Nuronium and reserve them to highly complex jobs and give the rest of the planet on Polixate. This would always for the advancement of the species while preserving life. As I continue to think about it, that may end with these two factions essentially becoming separate species with those on nuronium being “better” than those on polixate, even though they live shorter lives.
If I had to choose one, I would have to choose Polixate. Even if we don’t rekindle civilization in the near future, having hope in that future would ultimately be better than essentially sanctioning your own extinction.
The only stated harm from Nuronium is sterility. There's presumably some age where that ceases to be of any particular concern - for humans, that's normally around the mid-40s, I think? At that point there's nothing to lose from exposure, so... gerontocracy? Reverse Logan's Run? When you hit the magic age, you lose the chance to expand your family but you gain a mind.
I agree. Not much difference with the current capitalism system anyway. Those with more resources can afford appreciation of culture, but those without focus on survival anyway.
but why is the preservation of life so important? more important than people living to their fullest while they were alive. the universe has billions of planets and life will begin and cease to exist in many of them. we don't have any obligation to prevent that, nor to bring new life into existence by procreation. ceasing to exist by dying of old age doesnt harm any existing life but choosing Px would cause harm by disabling everyone.
i think it's granted that it's an either or question, you can't choose polixate for some and nuronium for others. so, is it better for humanity to live for a hundred years with their own cognitive abilities or be disabled and live for a much longer time.
@@notrhythm Forcing everyone to die of old age does harm people alive tho. People who want to have kids, people who will see their civilization fall into disarray as it breaks down.
This is a condundrum without a moral solution. You may chose what you personally would prefer, but the story is setup so you force it on everyone else despite their protestations.
The best would probably be other options.
Use the polyxate as the energy source and whatever stored neuronium to sustain people's minds, prioritizing the young people that had no kids and giving the corrupted neuronium to the older that already did or don't want them.
I would vote that a global referendum be taken on this. If a global referendum is not possible, then I would vote for the
Polixate solution with this stipulation that as much of the memories, data, technology, culture and art be preserved with massive structures that could last for millions of years and be easily accessed but protected. There is a possibility that even if just one person is immune to the effect of Polixate then he could access the information and teach the others.
Exactly - give evolution a chance, and sooner or later, the civilisation may be reborn, in some form or other. Ending it all in ~100 years, or having a good chance to get back on their feet over much longer time (at least until their sun starts to inflate too much, if it's similar enough to _our_ sun)? Not much of a question, if you ask me 🤷♂...
@@CoPoint We are in agreement regarding this hypothetical situation.
There is zero chance you could get a global consensus in the time taken for the comet to remain near enough to mine the Px
@@davea6314 You made a possibility outside what being presented so this is as valid as saying by Nu there's a possibility of finding a hidden solution, or immortality, in 100 years.
@@citizenmattify If they're as similar to humans as they're supposed to be: horribly sad, but sadly true 😔...
Definitely team Nuronium on this one. As I truelly believe in the abilities of this species when it has a common goal that unites it and everyone can work together. Any obstacle found can be overcome. I understand the video doesn't provide such posibillity but it is the one I believe in, because I would like to believe that it can be possible for all of us to put our differences aside and all live in one unified society that strives for the best of all of us.
If we can't remember our past and lose the capacity to make new long term memories, creativity and imagination, then there's no point in living anymore. And since no living being will be harmed by keep using Nuronium, then we should keep using it since at least we'd go down as who we were and maintain our dignity
This has the energy of _"I'd rather eat grenades and pull down a horde of zombies with me rather than slowly becoming one myself"_ which is a made up quote.
@@ultimaxkom8728 You should make that your quote. It's a darn good one.
@@kurtmatteson4914 Hey, it seems like it is worth it after all. Thank you, and run. **Clink clink clink** I don't have a wife nor kids so don't worry about my farewell.
Im on team polixate...
We may lose ojr memories but as simple species, we still carry signs of joy and emotion which is enough to bring life meaning.
Finally someone who simply pick Px without modifying the binary question _in their favor._ I like it.
The problem with this is that it treats the value of positive emotions like joy as primary, and the value of people as derivative. On this view, people are only valuable insofar as they serve to be mere containers for intrinsically valuable emotions. I think this is the wrong reason why we value joy and other positive emotions. Joy isn’t valuable for its own sake, rather, it is valuable because it makes life for people _better off_ than it otherwise would have been. Because of this, I see no ethical reason to create more happy people. As the philosopher Jan Narveson said; “we are in favour of making people happy, but neutral about making happy people.”
@@johnchesterfield9726If you believe that animals lives have worth, then Px is not the worst thing to happen.
@@johnnyearp52 For me, Px would not be good. I do think the lives of animals have worth, but only the lives of animals already in existence. It’s more that I think their continued existence has worth, but not their being brought into existence. I do not believe it would be good or better to bring more of them into existence.
@@johnchesterfield9726 can you explain your argument a bit more. Because it seems you are arguing that it’s not the pleasure that’s inherently valuable, it’s the people that are valuable. Fair enough, I’d agree. But I don’t see how that commits you to the idea that choosing Nt is the better option. On the contrary, Px seems like it would make more sense under your view because it allows for the creation of more intrinsically valuable people that are still capable of enjoying life (to be clear, not arguing we are obligated to keep procreating under either view, just that I don’t see how your argument leads you to the Nt conclusion)
I hope ted-ed make the continuation video based on each ending choice
up
I see the comments arguing about choosing Nuronium, and I'm with y'all on that. But at the same time, why can't we just mine the Polixate and preserve it, so we could further the debate while still having a supply of both?
This is super interesting, my take on what makes life worth living is both the experience of living it and helping others. With just the first I would see no point. I believe we have only this lifetime to experience life and I give all people the base respect of wanting them to live the best life possible, you cannot lose that respect. In a situation like this I wonder what to pick, life won’t be great if Px is what’s chosen but things might change and so I don’t know what to pick.
In thought experiments such as these it is typically assumed what not being said should not be considered. So Px will only result in Px, and nothing else. So don't add things yourself.
That's a very sweet and intelligent view on life, you sound like a good person. I wish more people understood how incredibly important kindness and respect are.
We have the same philosophy and outlook on life. If more people think this way, I am sure the world would be a better place to live in.
@@ultimaxkom8728Absolutely understand that and I agree with going about these that way.
@@sundance1372I’m still young which is why I have such a view. And yeah, I wish more people thought like I do even with how unrealistic it ends up being.
I choose Nuronium. It is not enough to just be alive, we must live! In museums we have artifacts from millennia ago that we visit and marvel at. Contemporary symphony halls play the music from composers four hundred years old. I still read classic works by Shakespeare, Dostoevsky, and Steinbeck. My dinner tonight was made possible because of the innovations brought on by the Industrial Revolution. I am currently typing all these words on an iPhone. To think that these arts, these histories, these inventions, these geniuses of literature could all be wiped out and forgotten and never be remembered to inspire another generation, is heartbreaking. I would retain all these memories and knowledge and culture, but let civilization go extinct, than to have us all live forever as robots without them. Again, it isn’t enough to just be alive, we must live! Art and beauty and history and innovation permit us to live. Creativity allows us to live. Nuronium would be my deciding vote.
I feel like this is a huge loss-loss situation because one is extinction in a little while and the other is practically the same thing as extinction tommorow.
I like to ask the question as more like what you want to lose the least, then what you want to retain more.
Also, PLEASE keep in mind that this thought experiment was meant for this simple question: would you rather choose gradual extinction or remove our functions that make us so advanced psychologally speaking.
As interesting as it is to think about, don't think about how extinction by lower birthrates will effect the socio-economic status of people a few years before extinction or how whilst they are using Polixate they discover an alternative source of consciousness or whatever of the sort, because that's not what the dilemma was about.
As someone who is mentally ill I would choose Px. Better to be a happy pet.
@@johnnyearp52 neurodivergent in what way?
@@somerandomguy___ My main problems are PTSD, bipolar and autism.
@@johnnyearp52 I see. I feel bad for you then.
@@johnnyearp52 It would be great if it's just to be a pet. Problem is, there is no owner, only other competing _"pets"_ in the wild. Oh also parasites, diseases, and disasters.
I think I'd stick with nuronium. Not necessarily because I think it's the best choice but because I think it'd be immoral to impose a species-wide lobotomy on people. This dilemma is a thought experiment to expose modes of thinking but I think the question as to whether you'd even have a right to do this is just as interesting, if not more so, as the one it presents. Also, the polixate team's arguments about collective happiness are unconvincing: In the absence of our species, others would take our place. The collective happiness would reach a similar equilibrium. The argument that it has to be *us* who achieves that degree of happiness is just species chauvinism. The only argument to be made that our happiness is somehow superior would rely on the complexity of thought surrounding it; the degree of appreciation. In the absence of that, let the streets fill with grass and let the cows form great herds. They're capable of love and joy. Call it an apology for the horrors of animal husbandry.
Learning Warhammer 40k lore makes life worth living
Hail the God Emperor brother
Henry Cavill is that you?
I love having a crisis at 8 am, thanks Teded!
I would choose Nuronium, for me personally the quality of life is much more valuable than its longevity, and the same can be applied on the specie’s existence.
Life doesn't have to be cognitive to be worth something; yes it could lose "meaning" in terms of conscious purposeful living, but butterflies for example are worth something, they embody a certain beauty in life, even without a conscious observer around to give more worth to its beauty.
Beautiful to the observer, but what of the butterfly, does it dream, does it yearn, does it mourn a world it can never know?
Worth something? What is that something?
They are worth something because you as a sentient being are giving it value, otherwise there would be no value as that is a only a concept created by sentience
@@bluetears2the butterfly cant certainly mourn the world it doesnt know. But aliens in the transition, that remember the beauty of the world but are starting to lose it? Then those aliens would mourn it. Afterwards when the culture is lost to time? Then no one will be concious enough to mourn it.
@@capuchinosofia4771 then I suppose it’ll only be sad, for as long as we remember
It's very interesting to me to see this dilemma now, as I wrote an essay on Longtermism two semesters ago in Philosophy.
I'd personally choose Polixate as anything can happen with evolution.
Anything can also happen in a 100 years with technology. AI anyone? What's up with the Nu discrimination in the comments? If Px can recover then it is fair to think Nu can too.
@@ultimaxkom8728ehh, the comment section is about 50/50 now, but yeah, there needs to be more context. For example, the video said we’d lose our creativity, does that mean we’d lose the ability think of new ways to acquire food? Also, if we lose our long term memory, does that mean we’ll also lose are ability to read or recognize our own kin? These factors all determine whether actually giving our species a future or are merely pushing back extinction a few hundred years.
This video removed me of my friend who's husband went on to a brain death... He could breathe but can't move or think or do anything. I haven't completed this video yet, but she concluded his life in realisation of worth of living instead of just life...in my language ജീവിതമില്ലാതെ ജീവനെ വിലയില്ല.
I don’t want to lose my creativity, even if it means becoming extinct faster. I’d go with Nuronium
Being a fireworks rather than a dim candlelight.
@@ultimaxkom8728I love your analogy
Team Nuronium all the way. Art, Culture and Ingenuity are what makes us who we are.
With Nuronium you preseve the scientific and cultural mind, there by allowing you to over come more challenges and maybe even hopefully one day find a way to reproduce through artificial means.
The other alternative is a dystopia, where the whole species is one pandemic / natural disaster away from being wiped out.
Our recent win over Covid already shows us how important science and culture are.
Pro Neuronium here
Many comments HOPE for the best of evolution while using Px, but if it implies that the creativity is lost forever when we choose Px( which is very much possible), I'll choose Neuronium and LIVE. LIVING and BEING ALIVE are two different things 😊
I respect the optimism on the Pro Px squad though.
If Px squad argue evolution then Nu can also argue AI, immortality, clones, space exploration, etc. Equal right equal left.
Culture doesn't necessarily mean a high quality of life.
@@johnnyearp52 Yes... you're right.
Thinking power would be the one I'd be sad to lose in the Px situation I think. You're right about the culture part.
Interesting. I think there are more than two choices here. Especially looking at the c0v!d experience, I doubt very much that anyone would agree on anything, rationally or consistently. There's a 100 years of Nu left. So "get" Px but protect people from being fully immersed/exposed to it. That way creativity/knowledge is preserved (at least to some degree) and we can spend 100 years trying to find an alternative solution or a way to neutralize/counteract some of the negative side-effects of Px. Save people, for sure, but keep fighting and searching. Then it will not be the end.
@@moonhunter9993 Yes...I think the scientists would consider this as their action plan too
I think there is much more meaning in life when there is hope, selflessness and faith in good. The polixate group has this to anchor on. Give a fighting chance for the next generations, they might discover a new life source that contain both the polixate and nuronium benefits.
Time for daily existential dread from Ted-Ed! :D
This is one of the best videos i have seen in my entire life! Thanks to the writers and the makers of this video!
I choose Neuronium. Within the story, that gives people 100 years to develop some kind of workaround to the fertility problem. That seems like a better bet than all accepting the elimination of culture within a few days. There's also a chance that some small percentage of the population is immune to the pollutant's fertility effects: better to take a massive hit and then repopulate than alter our atmosphere and entire species forever all at once. THAT would be as much of a "mass-murder" as choosing dignified extinction would be, if the fertility problem couldn't be addressed.
Polixate...cause of this old saying i used to hear when I was a kid
"When there is life, there is hope".
It isn't only a philosophical thought experiment, it has a very practical application when many couples decide whether they want to have children or wish to remain childless.
Could you explain further? I don't seem to grasp how living a robotic non creative life as with Polixate is akin to bearing a child
in a sense, but does having children make you forget everything learned up until that point than? make you less creative? i think not. which is why i don’t really think it applies to that kind of scenario :)
@anastasiasaratlic7019 I think it somewhat applies. For example, our future children will have a much harder lives than us. With the planet crumbling as we speak and population growing continuously, the future generation might not even have time for art and creativity. They will have to focus more on survival and competition with limited resources available. So not having children is implying that we are ready to die with what we have now. And choosing to have children implies that even if lose most of what makes us human, it's better to keep our bloodline alive.
@@anastasiasaratlic7019 Yes they 'forget' in a sense, because their belief, teaching, and dna mutation ends with the childless person. If they have child, then information passed down through generation.
@@asuka7892 interesting take! i see where you’re coming from
To me, life has value because of the things that we as sapient, self aware beings can accomplish and experience in the society we have constructed around ourselves. Friends, family, loved ones. The memories we share with them and the many experiences we have interacting in meaningful ways with science, and the technological advances we’ve made and benefitted from. So I, personally, wouldn’t Flowers for Algernon an entire planet’s worth of people just so we can unga bunga around in a cave for another few centuries.
It's a question of living for a short while, or subsisting forever.
It's interesting to see that humanity has long since chosen Polixate.
Our genes ensure that we continue on.
@@johnnyearp52 I was subtle referring to the fact that the time we were able to free up through agriculture and specialization to develop culture and art has long since been eaten up again by a system that has people working (multiple) jobs just to subsist, let alone exist.
@@Celis.C I was agreeing with your first statement. Actually hunters and gatherers have a lot more free time than previously thought. Anthropologists were surprised when they studied some of the last remaining tribes.
We are definitely too busy now.
I like this kind of arguements. They tickle my brain.
I'm more with ploxate because probably we are not the only one who have a meaningful life but there are other also including Microorganisms, insects, birds, and every lifeform. As meaning of life is the primary inspiration for doing anything
What if px only affected us badly
As someone who has been in the hard sciences, I initially wanted to answer Nuronium. Because what is it to live if not for the diversity and the art? Then I realized, with Polixate, we can survive and later on evolve to become smarter. Not only that, we can also leave behind a legacy, a firm instruction, to find other sources of energy other than Polixate. So in the bigger picture, humanity may suffer a period of a great amnesia of culture and arts, but that's just it -- a period.
Px. Because at the end u never know what will happen in the far future if you keep surviving but u do definitely know that u would extint if you choose Nu.
Live and figure out just like all other evolution
All good things must come to an end. I stand with team Nu.
Id choose Nu. I think music and art and culture are so important and I also think it would be unfair to procreate for the sake of carrying a bloodline or carrying on life, stripping away the elements of life that one generation could enjoy but future generations would never experience.
This is my attitude on daily life: Life is difficult. Life is a series of problems. Do we want to moan about them or solve them?
This is my attitude on how important I am: Although the child of three has come to accept the reality of the boundaries of its power, it will continue to attempt to escape into the world of superhero. By the time of mid-adolescence, young people know that they are individuals, confined to the boundaries of their flesh and limits of their power, each one a relatively impotent organism, existing only by cooperation within a group of fellow organisms called society. -M.Scott Peck,M.D.
Choosing polixate would roll us back to the stone age for a while... But I believe in evolution and we would adapt to it and regain cognitive abilities, develop a new culture in many generations... This is why preserving life matters.
*[ECHO]* You _created_ a possibility outside what being presented so this is as valid as saying by Nu there's a possibility of finding a hidden solution, or immortality, in 100 years.
no it wouldnt roll us back to the stone age
@@ultimaxkom8728 This is true too!! Maybe synthesize a new kind of substance by deriving from polixate or by some other way using the cognitive abilities from Nu within the 100 years...
@@abhishekreddy2425 Or make a successor AI, or make clones, or try cryogenic and explore space, there's many possibilities for Nu yet people only give it to Px.
you are missing the point. by choosing polixate you would lose your Imagination and understanding of everything but just exit forever because you use polixate. so there won't be such a thing as regain.
I like this as an individual question more, as it answers the question “what makes life worth living” better, on a species wide scale it becomes more about “what makes a species worth surviving”… ultimately either way i think I’d side with Nuronium
While I'm with Team Polixate in that it supports the preservation and continuation of life, I wouldn't want our species to lose it's creativity in favour of becoming breeding presses, pumping babies. At the end of the day, all things come to an end which makes me see the beauty in life and makes it worth living, being there for the whole ride until we run out of gas. With a heavy heart, I have to go with Team Nuronium.
Hey, you might have missinterpret it for immortalty, humans wouldn't become immortal, but the spiece would. giving you the guaranty we could conquer close space and eventually, the universe it would be a goal worth living for, at least for a few hundred generations, basically turning our humans race into Warhammer 40k... wait i'm not so sure its the best choice either now... meeh guess i'm glad i'll die in a few years and never find out then! lol (sorry for my english and farewell!)
Things do come to an end, but that doesn't mean we accept it. We create medicine to prevent the end, we develop great logistical systems to prevent the end, heck we readily accept the end if it means preventing the end of the people we love and care for.
Life has no inherent meaning, life's meaning comes from ourselves, we give it meaning. We could do that because of the emotions we have, as long as we have emotions we can have meaning.
I'm surprised I'm going to use an argument against suisight, but. By condemning the species to death, we will remove any chance that it will grow and be better. How do we know that we wouldn't be able to refine the PX and with some effort turn it to a substitute to Nuronium? How do we know that we wouldn't be able to reverse the effects of Nuronium and change it back? We don't know what'll happen in the future.
@@alexandretremblay6817I think they understood the message, what they ment was that its more meaningfull for a few people to have to the full experience of being human, rather than for future generations to live a life feeling only a fraction of what it means to be human. But the potential of finding a way for humans to become immortal is very clever and would drastically change the tie in favour of nuromium.
Fleeting moments of happiness should not be underestimated. Something is better than nothing. Polixate gets my vote.
To me this seems like a question of having hope or succumbing to hopelessness. We choose hope, even with its uncertainty, because it offers a chance of something greater. If we choose the path of hopeless, the situation that showed us this option goes from possible to absolutely certain. Do we want to live and have the possibility of growth or be certain in our deaths and make it impossible for us to ever have a future at all?
Uhm, not this is not the case. On the contrary we are sure of the results of our decisions, without any opportunity for the chance, not in the framework of the problem. Please take a sip of neuronium, my dear
That's not what the video says. Either way, I'd prefer to give the species a chance rather than direct obliteration, which is my opinion, not a fact.@@youerny
I did not guess the comment section to be this equally divided. As in most other youtube videos that I have come across, there has always been a somewhat unified concensus on people's view on the topic, but in this case, the two views are somewhat equally supported and our values in life come out to be the main deciding factor.
So the answer I theorize from this observation is that our personal life values are essentially what make life worth living.
I know that this whole video is a parable and should probably not be taken literally but
How about having half nuronium and half polixate in the atmosphere
Or using nuronium in helmets instead of throwing it into atmosphere
Or giving the smart ones nuronium and everyone else polixate
Or using polixate and letting everyone have a turn at nuronium
I guess, when used as an analogy, these solutions mean that to ensure our survival, we can afford to get rid of *most* outlets for creativity, but not all.
Interesting. I kind of agree. I think there are more than two choices here. Especially looking at the c0v!d experience, I doubt very much that anyone would agree on anything, rationally or consistently. There's a 100 years of Nu left. So "get" Px but protect people from being fully immersed/exposed to it. That way creativity/knowledge is preserved (at least to some degree) and we can spend 100 years trying to find an alternative solution or a way to neutralize/counteract some of the negative side-effects of Px. Save people, for sure, but keep fighting and searching. Then it will not be the end.
The universe may be vast and empty, but my body is teeming with life. Every cell is fighting and sacrificing to keep me alive, so that I can continue to experience the full range of emotions and experiences that this world has to offer. Even in the darkest of times, I will keep trying to survive, because life is a precious gift.
My thoughts:
As per the video's say, there's no possibility for the generation after 100yrs to experience art,culture, cognition, memories and all.Or if we decide to stay on with Nuronium there's no life after 100 years from now.And now all I will say is, "To live is the culture", " To survive is culture, To exist is culture" on the planet.Rather than nothingness after 100,if there is something after 100 is better and there's a way possible to adapt to the Polixite's situation and there comes a new terms and definition for happiness, cognitive and all what you say, but if that's the case you can't say that there will be less happiness when compared to nuronium's happiness, cognition, etc.., etc...., Because that is the world there. You damn sure I will vote for Polixite.
The temptation of breaking the rules of the mental experiment is proper of a lack of philosophical discipline. If the rules of the game are that “polixite is erasing everything intrinsic of our being humans, forever”, there is no room of “hope”, “adaption”, “evolution”. This is because the choice must be taken and discussed in exactly this conceptual framework, not the one you feel comfortable. Otherwise we play a different game. Neuronium is the only possibility
It's interesting to see people trying to solve the problem.
There is no solution.
It is a thought exercise on what you consider to be the meaning of life.
Existing or experiencing.
Wow this got me thinking . I'm pretty sure if I had to make this decision in real life it would take me much longer to decide but for now I'd go with team "Nu" I'm not thinking of humans but of other species. They too should have a chance to live and thrive without us humans making them go extinct. Humanity has caused enough damage to the world too so now its their time to pay the price. Leave the world with dignity rather than live a life devoid of meaning. A meaningless existence scares me and I don't want my future kids to question their purpose.
I do think about this topic from time to time but when asked like this I think I have some inkling as to what I think is a meaning of life. I chose Nuronium. Simply living a robot life just for the sake of existing is not meaningful enough for me. The culture, values, experiences is what makes life beautiful!
The simple life that Px would give you isn't exactly bad. Sure it would not be the same as consciousness but being alive is what ultimately matters when you're trying to evaluate happiness. Your people can't enjoy existence if they don't exist.
If I knew my kids were to be born disabled in the wild, and all their descendants as well, then I'd rather not make them and simply choose to go out in dignity myself.
I would choose Polixate. I totally agree with this! Our creativity and intelligence are too important to give up, but they are not 100 percent good things. When we look at history, it still is, it brought us a lot of wars, pains... Sometimes I wish I could live like a cat, away from the thoughts in my head. it wouldn't be bad. They have feelings too. I think they feel comfortable as long as their bellies are full and they are not in physical pain. So being comfortable is good.
I'm team polixate, no matter how creative human beings are or how many different memories and culture we have everything can be reset as years go by....no one is gonna remember this comment in a 100 years from now...but those people will still enjoy every moment of their life at that time....humans can live a normal peaceful life just by existing and experiencing emotions and love...rather than dying out with heavy hearts and brains that will help none after we go extinct...we can accept the fact that we still can have normal lives and can keep going with our species
For me...fascination, passion, and creativity 😊
Easy answer, keep human life going. Animals are living just fine without creativity or keeping historical records of stuff. Selfish of one generation of humans to say "nope, no further humans need to live if WE can't enjoy our music"
I think making a poll could give us a lot of information on what people think now versus in the future.
I personally think it's lot different from past 10,20 years and present
For the last couple of days, I have been wondering about Life and Multiverse, Timelines and stuff, and then comes Ted-Ed to the rescue....♥️ you guys...
I'm here in this world to experience life. Enjoy it while you can.
Person who drew the animation for this video is definitely using excessive amount of Neuronium😌
My life philosophy is to improve by learning from everything. But I value surviving and continuing to live on more. So I'm team Px thing
I think it should be very worth to do research on how to get fertility back and if this is possivly than I definitely go for Nuronium
I've been reading Camus a lot, truly, and I've learned a bunch of things. That makes my vision of life transform and I will definitely choose Nuronium. Perhaps life ends earlier, but I prefer to life less with the culture I know, with the art, our ability of imagination, with our history. I think expand our lifes even more is nonsense, even knowing we probably inure to the unhappiness of losing all we know. We have to take advange of being alive now and learn from our history. We have to learn about all the mistakes that people have already made and just trying to live. That's the challenging thing, the hardest one.
Nuronium = death with dignity
Polixate = life as a zombie
I choose death.
A famous Persian poet, Hafez Shirazi has a beautifl verse which translates to: "The one who's heart hasn't met love, i announce them dead while alive"...while translation doesn't do this verse the tiniest bit of justice, i think my opinion is conveyed that I believe we live to experience and realize our endless capacity for love. Love even if felt for a split of a second towards any being in the world will leave aark beyond memories it leaves growth marks...so if there is possibility for that growth i would vote for it!
I think a religious POV changes a lot. Being a person of faith that would risk losing their faith makes Polixate a near impossible choice. To large of a risk. I’m choosing the other one.
I also have faith but it opens up other choices and considerations. My faith tells me to save people but also that miracles are possible. I think there are more than two choices here. Especially looking at the c0v!d experience, I doubt very much that anyone would agree on anything, rationally or consistently. There's a 100 years of Nu left. So "get" Px but protect people from being fully immersed/exposed to it. That way creativity/knowledge is preserved (at least to some degree) and we can spend 100 years trying to find an alternative solution or a way to neutralize/counteract some of the negative side-effects of Px. Save people, for sure, but keep fighting and searching. Then it will not be the end.
Definitely knowing you exist the gift of experience is the meaning of life
The video actually made the problem even more complex to me. If it was just a question of "live with no conciousness or die with some of it", then I would choose death. But in the concrete situation provided by the video, there are numerous ways of resolving this seemingly two sided situation. What if we decreased the overall usage of Nuronium by only allowing some individuals to have it? Or maybe only allow a limited supply of it? Or maybe we vastly cut the population to use less Nuronium overall, but keep their conciousness so that there is a chance of them finding a new source?
Actually a good take, if not the best. I like it.
And people would kill to get the Nu!
Definitely going with Polixate on this one. As long as life goes on, there’s always a chance for that spark of creativity to come back too. Haha!
I’ve got to side with Team Nuronium for this one. Us humans are the most intelligent life form on this earth (as far as we know) and only we have a consciousness for a reason. If there is no meaning to life, then what are we even living for? We’ve built our entire culture and society based on meaning across eons of time. Why would we want to turn back now?
I use to think I was better than most people ,"all of them contribute to their advancements" just answered my question about where I think the world is headed.👏🙏❤
There's a common idea to both of them to let the future go on to its fate on its own with or without intervention. Taylor wanted dignity in the fate giving a hypothetical point that their extinction doesn't affect the stability of the universe as it will get its stability by the adaption or formation of another species. Kahan wanted happiness in the hope that their species would find the worth of living by adapting themselves, not by the universe like Taylor thought. Taylor decided to be part of natural selection and wanted to see what the fate awaited, until their extinction to keep silent. Kahan on the other side morally wanted to keep the living dead future offsprings so that they could avoid mass murder. Coming to my point, I prefer the adaptation of the universe over the adaptation of that species, cause the future species will do much better to exceed the limits of the current species... Sometimes silence becomes worth it.
One big problem: Nu path is not that of mass murder. Choosing not to have kids does not equate to murders.
Wow this is my favorite ethical dilemma now
I mean, you don’t have to pick now, you could just get the comet into low earth orbit and not use it for now, but you’d still have it if you wanted to use it later
Good idea. Interesting. I think there are more than two choices here. Especially looking at the c0v!d experience, I doubt very much that anyone would agree on anything, rationally or consistently. There's a 100 years of Nu left. So "get" Px but protect people from being fully immersed/exposed to it. That way creativity/knowledge is preserved (at least to some degree) and we can spend 100 years trying to find an alternative solution or a way to neutralize/counteract some of the negative side-effects of Px. Save people, for sure, but keep fighting and searching. Then it will not be the end.
I'll be honest and frank, I believe in Dr. Kahan's philosophy. All these things such as culture and creativity are things that we have made up to make some sense amongst the senseless, but the continuation of life is the ultimate goal in all this.
Polixate forever. Great video, loved the dilemma and the animation!
This channel teaches me more than school
I think, the definition of what is 'meaningful' is the real argument here. One scientist sees just being alive is meaningful, and the other sees preserving their cultures lifestyle etc is meaningful.
It became a philosophically umanswerable question because, it is questioning the axioms of our innate moral itself. Axioms are just believed to be true, we feel that is correct. inherently. Generally we fix to one of the two perspectives, and then morally discriminate the all other questions. But here you are questioning the axiom itself.
No matter how hard you try, you have to believe something is true, blindly, without any logic, and then discriminate what is right and what is wrong based on this belief.
So what is meaningful and what is meaningless is just what you fix, you can fix anything(it is meaningless). And the rest of the things will be meaningful or meaningless according to what you fix to meaninglessly.
So everything is meaningless
But if everything is meaningless, then what i have written is also meaningless
*Not only what I have written, but, the statement 'everthing is meaningless' should also be meaningless.
**But that * statement should also be meaningless
***But that ** statement should also be meaningless
**** and so on.. it is a never ending paradox
***** but saying that **** statement is also meaningless.
So, I effectively reduced this question into this paradox. Not only this question, any question series which start with why will end up in this paradox. This is called the liars paradox.
A man broke math with this logic. But he couldnt break the paradox
Im currently exploring the solution for this paradox. I think i will get an answer from the Bhatruhari Subhashita(Sanskrit poem)
When i find the answer, I will post a reply to this comment.
Nive one 👏
Bro got logic!
Nuronium. I couldn't live without the ability to understand and appreciate the things around me
Na uh. That's Dystopian. I will rather stake on choosing Noronium and make a great sacrifice by dedicating all the resources in finding a habitanl planet or finding other solutions than becoming a " SOULLESS PUPPET." I'd rather die.
When you think about it, it's crazy that humans as a creature can make the conscious decision to die even with the absence of pain or other direct influence that leads into such decision.
Polixate forever !
Life is simple, yet we insist on making it complicated
-Confucius my fav philosopher 🤩🤩🤩
Typically when a star is born, they expel matter(rocks, dust and elements) and they crash together making planets. If the aliens live in a solar system composed of different planets, there is a high chance that Nuronium that they need is in different proportions in the other planets. If they had the tec to go to a comet, just why don't they mine Nuronium out of the other planets?
Im Pro-Polyxate. You always give life a chance. Who's to say that in the future, the people don't evolve, or another twist enables formation of another change in the atmosphere enabling creativity?