The REAL reason Germany doesn't want Tesla to make 1 million EV's
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
- The REAL reason Germany doesn't want Tesla to make 1 million EV's
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IMO the German Unions can either get behind Tesla and have some jobs or fight/disrupt Tesla and eventually lose all auto manufacturing jobs to China. The old adage of 'change or die' applies very well to this situation. From a consumer point of view the $25k Tesla can't come quickly enough.
Are Tesla going to allow their factories to be unionised?
If not why should the unions get behind them?
@@ChristopherFynn001true
@@ChristopherFynn001 what happens when they are no humans left at all ??? It is 70% robot now. Who will join the union?
@@callmebigpapa If everything is automated there wont be jobs hence whoever owns the machines will own everyone else great future really.
You are ignoring the point.
The German govmt would have partially funded Tesla to build a factory there on the condition that the factory provide a minimum number of jobs.
Essentially Tesla took their money and then didn't deliver - not a surprise given their past practices.
This has nothing to do with innovation of car costs - this is to do with Tesla/Musk essentially stealing money from the govmt and getting away with it.
I have been involved in automation in the engineering industry for over 40 years. Automation does not lead to job losses but increases the amount of jobs that have more value. Instead of all day putting a bolt in a hole, thats a job a machine can do, more people are needed in the maintenance/tooling of robots and other ancillary jobs, also it increase the need for people to write programs to enable these machines to do a job.
Instead of humans doing menial jobs, we can now be freed to do jobs where we can use our brains and imagination, far more fulfilling jobs.
And yet, the number of middle-class blue-collar jobs has cratered. The median IQ (half the population) is 100. Automation has moved large numbers of workers to the lower class because there aren't enough middle-class jobs for the ex bolt turners with an IQ of 100 or less.
Do you think the correlation of lost bolt turner jobs with the rise of right-wing ideology is a coincidence? This has happened in Germany before.
It takes far less people to maintain that equipment than has been replaced by same equipment. Fact.
Automation reduces the overall workforce needed. The only way that works out for a society is if there is economic growth that generates new jobs offered by new enterprises.
The degree of automation will exceed growth, thus we are looking at massive unemployment. The only wild card is how fast the workforce contracts because of demographics.
@@markrosenthal9108 The crisis is certainly a suitable ground for any type of extremism, be it left or right. In Germany in the 1930s, a socialist party was in power that cultivated racism and nationalism, it was both left and right.
if automation didn't reduce salary expenses, u think companies would implement it??? without a doubt automation kills jobs.
The workers council in Germany, by trying to protect the workers slows down innovation. I worked for 5 years in a German multinational and all the innovation was being done outside of Germany. Inside German the speed of change was hampered and slow which is going to harm them in the long run.
This sounds a lot like my experience in Canada’s mining industry. Once a specific job was done by a union member it could never be taken away from them. Tesla not allowing the hampering of unions is clearly working in their favour regarding progress
I just tried to put in place a 10-25% efficiency engineering boost for legacy auto without the stupid 100 hour a week work culture to compete with Tesla. It was killed in the 3rd of 5 "Gate reviews" after confirming the solution was desirable by workers and management end users, because the people making the decisions are all over 50 and have not done engineering work in the last 10 years.
It’s in the culture. Things change very slowly
@@rendezoneI’m all in favor of progress. Looking back anywhere from 1 decade to 5 centuries, the speed of innovation has been growing exponentially, and I don’t see much discussion as to the associated risks. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not defending bureaucracy or anything related, I just believe that our world works based on a very complex set of interconnected, mutually beneficial (yet conflicting in good part) “systems”. Statistically, things go wrong (more often than generally considered, in my humble opinion). Bottom line: I worry about big decisions being made too quickly and definitively (mostly AI and energy related). Any thoughts appreciated. Cheers
I have mixed feelings about unions. They are necessary to avoid employers doing what they want with their employees. On the other hand they are often slowing down innovation and changes.
However it should be noted that not all unions behave the same. There are unions which tend to be very employer-friendly (maybe even too employer-friendly), some are employee-friendly and some are in between and trying for balance and see the necessity for changes, if they are actually necessary.
Having a union does not automatically mean that progress and innovation is slowed down.
whilst i think slashing worker numbers is harsh, the auto industry is bloated with under achievers. Tesla flagged EVs 15 yrs ago. So they have themselves to blame for being obstinate idiots. as for less workers, thats something for society to work out, not the role of industry and thats a separate agenda altogether
And yet more and more single men from low literacy countries with alien cultures continue to invade and flood Europe just as jobs disappear. It makes no sense, why is this invasion being tolerated? No one voted for immigration, ever, especially by people who never integrate not assimilate, often because of backward belief systems. Democracy isn't designed for this, big trouble looms (look at France) unless action on immigration and deportation is done by a new leader soon.
Machines are replacing humans in menial job situations and freeing us to do much more worthwhile jobs especially in the area of automation, these machines need to be made, maintained and programs written for, rather than putting a bolt in a hole and tightening it up
@@stevehayward1854this works only if there is economic growth soaking up lost jobs.
@@AndreAngelantonitrue
@@stevehayward1854 i call BS. machines take over and we are left holding the candy. I dont mind the machines taking over but you better have something for me to do or a level of income that doesnt make me destitute. Thats society's job for sure but it needs to be said. Its only all roses for those in the minority
Elon should make it obvious that there are many other countries in the EU that would welcome tesla
But those do not have the same number of highly educated engineers that really want to work for Tesla, even though unions, politicians and competitors keep saying that this isn’t the case
It’s too late to threaten to move to another country. Tesla have made their choice and now they have to live with it.
They can build in other eu countries. Which is what they are looking to do.
@@2068648falsch Tesla wollte in Valencia eine Fabrik aufbauen hat sich aber zurückgezogen nachdem die Verhandlungen geleakt worden sind. Viele Länder haben reichlich Ingenieure und zu wenig Beschäftigung für diese.
Poland, Czech, Hungary and Romania would all love a Tesla factory. And they would make good use of it.
Tesla’s plan increases the employee count from 10,000 up to 22,000.
The union concern is not automation but the move of union jobs from struggling OEM’s with their unionized workforce over to the growing but non-unionized Tesla factory.
Yep the fat cat union bosses are worried about their income stream!
Spot on.
@@user-zo2pc5lu5q Lol it will be the employees complaining soon enough given Tesla's past actions.
Employee friendly they are not.
German employees like to be unionized, but with Tesla they don't get to choose. Why would anyone want the Anglosax slavery and a CEO that is the richest person in the world??
@mnomadvfx why because they weed out the lazy and unmotivated employees for the best they can get I don't see a problem with that maybe for the lazy and unmotivated person there mite be a problem
Think it's bad in Germany? Imagine the trouble Tesla would experience in France! It would be insane to build there.
But Tesla should probably threaten to build in France (or more realistically in Spain (close to solar power) or the Netherlands (a better labour market).
Message to Germany should be: you don't want to see us increase production in Germany? We're going to increase production elsewhere. Won't stop scaling production - but Germany will lose ANY benefit.
Should build in Poland next to Ukraine 😂
@@dxelson poland,welcome tesla. Thier will do anything to hulimation german
@@dxelson Romania is cheaper.
@@dxelson L😂L
I think you are confused about the entire point of the discussion.
It's not about how many cars Tesla makes - it's about HOW MANY JOBS their factory supports.
The German govmt will have given them tax incentives and perhaps more besides to build in the country on the condition of a minimum number of jobs.
That Tesla is not doing so is likely the reason for the ire being sparked here.
Let's get real it's hardly the first time that Musk has promised x and delivered x-y.
Unions just create another layer of bureaucracy and bureaucracy is intrinsically anti-progress.
Automation increases quality. People make mistakes.
But only people buys things and they do that only if they have a decent job. Robots dont buy anything. We have to accept that the majority is simple who need simple job, but also they buy anything. They keeping this capitalist system alive. Maybe this new industrial revolution will demolish the current system.
It's a good excuse but the reality is just that Musk doesn't want to pay more wages.
He's not even paying rent on Twitter office spaces FFS.
The "automation" must be programmed. By people. Who make mistakes.
The people must have jobs, or "people experiencing homelessness", starvation, and crime will increase.
@@AllDogsAreGoodDogs it's not about programming wrongly, it's about inconsistencies. A machine making a mistake can be fixed once and it will pump out the same product for 30 years or more if maintained.
@@bastianm5478 .I was a systems programmer and software author for over 40 years, writing assembler code for mainframes. One client enjoyed bug-free use of one of my products for 37 years.
But hey, thanks for your feedback.
Talk about a country shoting itself in the foot. Afterwards they will problably complain about limping !
lol
The Unions are probably the MAIN reason why VW, Ford, GM et al have been so inflexible over the last 30 years!
The unions are led by people whose heads are still in the 1930s when business owners WERE basically 'slave' owners, and needed union protections.
But those times are LONG gone, and businesses have known for a long time that happier staff are more productive and motivated = greater chance of business success!
That is the biggest reason Musk decided early on to not have unions having any say in his companies!
German car companies like VW, Mercedes etc. have been loosing money yearly for a long time. They set themselves on fire.
Nonsense
@@wjekat VW, $192 billion in debt. Mercedes-Benz $90 billion Debt. BMW $76 billion debt. They've been loosing money for years to achieve such astronomical debt!
@@tigersharkzh Sorry, you're confusing debt with profit/loss. Look up the Q1/2023 profits for VW, Daimler and BMW. All are in the black.
There are a lot of good reasons to take on debt, for example to modernise your products or production facilities or to finance customers' purchases. For example Apple Inc had a Q1/2023 total debt of $109.61 billion. VW, Daimler, BMW (and Apple) are all profitable companies.
I'm not denying that VW, Daimler and BMW are facing many challenges, but none of these companies are about to collapse. It will be interesting to see how things develop, I wouldn't write off these companies (yet).
Unions have one goal, keep their workers employed so they can keep paying dues into the union coffers.
Didn't each Giga-Press eliminate 300 robots. Are the Germans going to legislate against using them?
No, but SkyNet is getting a bit worked up about it...
The activists complained about water usage in Berlin factory. Less workers means less use of the toilet and drinking water. The complaints are ridiculous.
Unions represent their members just like businesses represent their shareholders and politicians represent their constituents. Each of these groups uses government to protect its own interests, often in conflict with the common good and its own long-term benefit. After all, they are made up of people whose stake is time-limited. Easy to see from a distance--harder from up-close.
yes and its always portrayed as either or with no other options available. No body is willing to come up with another way because you guys will call them socialists, lol.
unions are in it for the unions benefit, hot the workers benefit. the workers are fools if they think the ynions put their needs first.
Read Karl Marx.
At every price point VW cars have inferior cars - half the features of alternative cars - and - crap software. For every car with comparable features VW is 50% more expensive than alternatives. During these days when car buyers have more information to make better decisions, do VW think that they can continue to trade on their brand name?
Thank you so much for summarizing so much info related to this industry. You have no idea how useful it has been for me. You have a new subscriber.
In the UK, the unions with their job protection rules, where a big factor , along with poor management, in the demise of manufacturing. The Industrial revolution started in the UK but was finished off by Unions and the Germans are about to go the same way.
...but think of the environmental benefits of killing off your industry!
It has been said that the future factory will be run by a man and a dog. The dog will be there to keep people away from the machines. The man will be there to feed the dog. I suspect that the dog will be replaced by a robot and the man will be redundant.
This union driven manufacture has always been the case in Germany and France, building a Gigafactory in Germany is going to be Teslas biggest mistake.
Tesla need to get on with their UK factory.
Spain has more land and at a cheaper price inland plus lots of sunshine for power generation.and a lot of car factories. Plus you don´t have VW funding environmentalists to complain.
The Tesla Model 2 hatchback will go head to head with the Volkswagen Golf. No wonder VW are worried.
Germany should be grateful that they will still have one car maker when the dust settled in a decade. Without Tesla, they would likely have none at all.
as you said - at least they are making them in Germany. Thats a plus for something new - you added value to your presence.
Decades ago, there was a lot of discussion in Germany of shifting to a 35 hour work week (some suggested an eventual 30 hour work week), which was not realized. It was a dream for some. This was before robots and automation presented a real threat. It wasn’t realistic. Finding a practical middle-ground is very challenging.
Why isn't it realistic? Most studies show that people are just as productive in 32 hours as in 40. They could run a four day and a three day shift and produce cars 7 days a week.
It was a left-wing politician in northern Sweden in Kiruna who also thought that companies should hire people. It was a newly opened kiosk He apparently thought they should have already hired people
similar idea in Sweden by the Green Party. that people would work fewer hours, they thought well that companies would hire more people because of shorter working hours. the problems we might also that people would not get lower wages. Tried in some municipalities
It was said that in the 1930s people broke machines in factories they thought the machines were taking their jobs away
They should be happy! Soon they will have a zero hour work week!!!
GM in 1970 "Those damned VWs are taking away our sales. They gotta be stopped. Call the Union heads - QUICK."
VW in 2023 "Those damned Teslas are taking away our sales. They gotta be stopped. Call the Union heads - QUICK."
So many options in Europe, as cheap labour in Poland. Just move
Its like asking a union member to calculate 2 large numbers, give them a choice of pen / paper of calculator - if they choose the calculator. Then ask them why can't Tesla use one to.
Own the companies who build and own the robots and automation.. thats survival in the age of automation.
Not that unions give a crap about the general welfare and economy but Tesla is the best hope for future German auto manufacturing.
Unions naturally are fearful of automation, but they need to realize it’s not just about them.
@@fractalelf7760 Just as management has the singular focus of increasing short term profits, all else be damned, unions have the singular focus of protecting jobs in the short term, all else be damned. So you can say that unions are needed as a counter-balance via collective bargaining, but you can also see how they're no less crooked and burdensome than a specific breed of managerial class.
So all unions are exact the same? You have solid knowledge of how businesses (which is what unions are) cooperate in Germany?
What has happened in the U$A when manufacturers have been allowed to do whatever they want, regardless of human consequence?
Is it conceivable that in the U$A we have been propagandized that corporations need libertarianism on the way up and socialism when fail?
If you still beliece in the fantasy of free market capitalism, then consider that a union isa capitalist's business selling labor.
@@fractalelf7760 Before unions, there were massive violent riots all over Europe agains the loom. It cut the cost of clothing allowing a better life for all, but it put a few garment workers out of a job, and the few didn't care about the general welfare.
@@rabokarabekian409
Robots don't pay union fees.
Plus they work 24 hour shifts
The human workers also get higher pay than equivalent workers in other German plants, if the other manufacturers were forced to pay equally, they would close.
It’s the old age problem of technology replacing human. I’m in IT and worrying about AI to take our job away. With the speed Tesla moving with robot development, there will be no human in their future factory.
Countries with high tech electronics technology will dominate future car industry. Unfortunately for Germany, time is ending.
Car manufacturers need to become battery manufacturers. They won't be cost effective or have control if they don't have their own batteries.
That only shows you have your head so far up Musk's anus that you fail to keep up with current events.
All EU govmts are bidding their &sses off to gain new semiconductor fab plants in the future, including Germany - and given it's historical associations with that industry I think it likely that they will gain at least one interested party, if not several.
THAT is high tech electronics.
EVs are hardly "high tech" electronics.
EVs are just the downstream commercialisation of technologies made or researched elsewhere.
The only thing correct in your statement is that EVs are the future - and the multiple auto makers that are based in Germany are well aware of that with ongoing plans to shift manufacturing output to that end.
Contrary to popular belief Tesla is not even at the forefront of EV automated driving tech - Mercedes Benz is.
Care to guess which country that Mercedes Benz is based in?
Yup, that's right! It's Germany sucka! 😂🤣😆
This is the information/knowledge age. The employee has been taken out of the asset column and placed in the liability column. Get used to it. This isn't going away.
Tough turkey. Tesla has no obligation to give German workers a free lunch. German workers deserve to be paid for their efficient work performed, not deliberate inefficient performance.
on Facebook In Sweden, a person told me that they had several different ice cream machines for the staff
You must remember that reducing the rate of growth is often mislabeled as a cut. Have 5, look for 5 more, stop at 8 is erroneously called a cut or reduction of 2.
Spot on! It's the unions that holds back the electric car. The UAW in USA too.
Legacy issues-what about the horses and craftspeople that were displaced when the ICE car became mass produced??
Or the reduced need for pack animals when the wheel was introduced? Won't people spare a thought?
In Germany corporate boards are required to have 50% worker representation. In most cases this insures the German companies function in the country's interest. Like Musk operates in the intrest of Musk.
Musk operates in the interest of innovation and their shareholders.
He done a mistake opening the factory in Germany.
But someone has to build those robots, don't they?
Other robots
@@juliahello6673 its robots all the way down, until its turtles all the way down
Donuts? The best company I ever eorked for had a cold breakfast buffet free every morning. And they only put out enough for 90% of the employees, to give you incentive to get there early. It works.
For tens of millennia at least, there has been increasing tech, going back even to Neanderthals. It's why we live in modern homes with supercomputers in our pockets, not stone lean-tos with parasites. Luddites don't like to admit it, but productivity, which means the amount produced for a given amount of labor, is what makes modern wages possible. In other words, ever increasing automation. Yikes, how do people in a modern country not see this? It's not like this hasn't been accelerating for generations. Or maybe Germany is inherently stagnant...lignite coal replacing nuclear...design, build, then shut down the fastest train in commercial operation, for no reason. I used to think of Germany as a technically focused country, not a backwater tearing down its most modern stuff.
Maybe it's not your job that is at stake? Maybe you would have a different view if it was.
Your analysis is absolutely right. The enviremently group “BUND” seems to be massively influenced by VW. The lack of water in the region of Grünheide is normal for a at least 30 years because of the sandy ground, restricting private water use every summer and becoming worse for the last 5 years because of climate change. I am from Berlin, visiting Grünheide for 20 years, talking to people who lived there forever. All of them say the same except of a few dumb a..es which don’t want the region to be crowded. They seem to have there jobs being not interested in the goals of Tesla and the future for the next generations.
The dumbest thing was to fire Herbert Diess replacing him with the head of Porsche (was Porsche ever interested in normal workers jobs or the environment?). Nice channel, Viking!
"They seem to have there jobs being not interested in the goals of Tesla"
Why should they?
You seem to be under a false impression that anyone that doesn't work for Tesla should give a flying fµck about them.
If Tesla goes under it won't take long for some other company to fill that breach in the market.
The writing has been on the wall for years. Now, some can read it.
Future progress versus keeping workers employed. German labor unions versus industrial disruption. For any industrialized country, there is the option in which taxpayers could support laid-off, displaced workers for life, but this is politically very unpopular. Unfairness does not have an easy solution. The ultra-wealthy never pay their fair share of the overall financial burden of creating the resources and infrastructure which they are taking advantage of. What should we do?
What should we do? Let the buyers and not politicians decide if they want the EV or the ICE. The answer is clear. The market wants ICE. The workers can stay at their jobs and produce affordable cars.
Who says that EV's are the future? The car market doesn't. Our country spends billions of tax money on EV's because despite the robots they are to expensive. And they still are to expensive.
@@andrevanrossum8408 "The answer is clear. The market wants ICE." I was not aware that aspects of reality which we object to can be changed by simply denying them.
There's one very simple and obvious fact: Tesla don't _have_ to make cars in Germany.
Would the unions be happier if they closed down the Berlin factory, laid off their 10,000+ workforce and imported their cars from other countries instead? The cars will sell just as well in Germany as they do already, maybe even more quickly, but Germany will lose the already substantial export revenue that it is enjoying right now. That income will become larger still, if Tesla is allowed to expand.
Also remember that far more than the 10,000 employees are earning a decent salary, because of the increasing need for supplies of raw materials and many of the components in each vehicle that they make. It's also important to remember that people have to design, build, program and maintain every robot and associated car construction hardware which Tesla uses.
People are consumers as well as workers. If transportation becomes half the cost because of automation (factory automation and autonomous driving) all 8 billion people will benefit. If automation is prevented, a few million will have to find other careers. I think we can do the math and figure out what benefits people more. 200 years ago 95% of people were farmers, toiling in the fields. People didn’t have much more than a house, some farm animals, and one set of clothes. Automation came and took the jobs of 95% of those farmers. Nobody thinks that was a bad thing.
As for job loses, Tesla hires a lot of people. Building cars, chargers, powerwalls solar tiles and installing same - seems like a lot of jobs.
You are literally spouting whataboutism over lost jobs.
Just because they hire lots of people worldwide doesn't mean that they are doing it IN GERMANY.
Follow the topic and stop drinking that Musk flavored koolaid.
This is about Germany - not anywhere else.
Did you think that the German govmt just gave Tesla all sorts of tax incentives with zero conditions?
There's loads of jobs in the energy transition. But folks will need to reskill and folks who own, say, engine factories will be sad.
They dont built any solar tiles that whole thing was a fraud. They buy them from china and sell them under their name. Just fake promises which is all Elon can really do, or where are the since 2014 every year promised self driving cars? Or 1 million Robotaxis by 2019? Havent seen any of those
In the US hunters were the first environmentalists. They helped to stop market hunting and they paid taxes to fund environmental work.
If you can design the manufacture of vehicles in such a way you can possibly remove robots from the production line as well. Reduce processes and assemblies, faster, cheaper.
YA great prez. The Germany labour relations angle hasn't been covered in the UK media, as far as I can see.
RIP Legacy Auto
For the n-th time: the mine does not use water. It just pumps it to lower the local water table and dumps it into the next river without needing to treat it. Tesla needs clean water and luckily is able to recycle water efficiently. The local communities need water as well. Neither one can get water from the mine because... bureaucracy and anything taking forever in Germany.
The situation for VW is unclear. They sent home one fifth of their temps and closed some lines early - July 17th until August 4th is a vacation closedown that got extended a week, accompanied with a reworking phase June 19th until August 25th for starting id3 manufacturing in Wolfsburg.
I just care about Tesla getting their s*!t together, playing by the rules and producing an affordable Model by 2027 for me to buy.
I wish we could replace politicians with robots!
The conflicts in our economic system are not surprising, just look at the very low moral values it is based on: profit above almost everything else, self interest, undemocratic control of productive enterprises. It is not a fair system
Forcing a company to pay unnecessary workers is the same as forcing that company to be a welfare provider. Only the government has an obligation to pay welfare. If a company no longer has need of a worker, then it is that worker's responsibility to find another job or else apply for welfare from the government. It is foolish to require companies to manufacture only a third as many cars per day just to keep people doing jobs that can easily be done much faster by machines.
As a consumer, part of me understands the Auto Industry concerns. However as a consumer the bottom line is this...Make a well built car at a good price. If it means its made by robots..Well, so be it. If it can be done by large groups of humans...Well, so be it.
I find it ironic when German car makers come to the US to build cars/trucks, they are located in SC and AL, which are right to work states with low unionization. German OEMs only give lip service to the benefit of unions/work councils when their legacy operations demand it.
The unions should have seen this coming and started cross-training their members for new or different skills to match the paradigm. Insisting on keeping inefficient, unprofitable manufacturing methods is infantile thinking.
The fact that we even need a adversarial underfunded Union to oppose management direction is a clear sign of why corporate government is sick. It receives near zero oversight by stockholders, and actually zero oversight by those most familiar with what is wrong with the company, the employees. It is hideously corrupt, and will continue to be until employees gain substantial say over corporate governance.
After all, if employees got to vote on their own leadership, would a union be needed to oppose layoffs? Would AAPL be doing stock buybacks to the tune of $700k per year per employee? Would there be a shortage of childcare at work?
That's the thing. There *are* no skills that can protect you from what's coming in about 15 years.
And millions of jobs are going away over the next 5 to 10 years. Many for people in their 50s.
Clearly the EV is an inefficiënt product as it is far more expensive than an ICE that is mainly produced by people instead of robots.
Furthermore I think you are not one of the 500.000 people that will lose their job at a robot.
@@andrevanrossum8408 It's not clear at all. And over low end estimates in the united states *alone* are for 3 million jobs (about 2% of the working population).
So your guess of 500,000 is crazy low.
And EV's are more expensive to produce but the *g.d.* dealers mark ICE cars up $10,000 to $15,000 *or more* making them more expensive to buy than EV's.
And EV's get about 5% cheaper to produce *every single year* .
@@macmcleod1188 The 500.000 people are the people that produce combustion engines in Germany alone. Also a lot of people that repair cars will lose their jobs. Musk is rich and the people get poor thanks to the EV. The people can't even effort an EV. The only reason that combustion cars are expensive are the rising taxes on the cars and the fuels. EV sucks for most people.
Great Video as Always Viking!
Is the environmental group still only complaining about tesla but not the COAL PLANT DOWN THE ROAD????
You think they are pissed now? Wait till Teslabot shows up on the factory floor in Germany.
Did you see the Kuka name on at least one of those robots? That's a German company. Oh wait, the Germans permitted a Chinese appliance maker to buy it. The Germans already sold out their auto making future to the Chinese even before the push to EVs.
Tesla is on a roll! The point is other German car builders need to improve and very fast so they can provide cars for lower prices! Dies was the required future! Amazing that governance at VW knowing what is going on, just don't seem to care about the long term ...
Tesla Fanboys are INSANE wow, not only have they been fooled for over 10 Years by Elon and still think that Tesla is actually come up with a self driving car next year every year again and again. Even tesla itself admitted their cars cant even get up to Level 3 autonomous driving what Mercedes did almost a year ago. But they still think Tesla is superior in every aspect and invented the whole modern auto industry its just insane keep dreaming guys. And enjoy your failing Level 2 dogshit cruise control while sitting in your plastic cars which have some of the poorest building quality ever while worship ELON
VW group and the rest of Europe’s OEMs better step up before they’re clobbered by Tesla and BYD.
Musk has repeatedly offered help and was thoroughly rebuffed. I begged several friends to buy Tesla in 2016. Not everyone wants advice.
Look what happened at YELLOW here in the states. 22,000 union jobs lost.
I think the unions in Germany will focus on protecting jobs. Transitions are tough. Too bad the customer doesn't care about jobs.
When life gives you Union blues bring in the Tesla Bots!!
The government will introduce a Robot tax.
Tesla can always move to Slatina in Romania, will have reliable hydro electricity there and an aluminium refinery close by, and unions are tame after they helped the deindustrialization of the 1990s
This is not a new story. In the early 1920’s automotive jobs replaced harness and buggy whip makers.
It is not Tesla’s responsibility to provide employment. It is a company that makes cars. If Tesla replaces human performed jobs with automation, workers need to get training for jobs that are available.
Change is always disruptive. Plan, adapt or perish.
We need to dig a hole. Hire an excavator and operator at $150 an hour. The hole dug in 4 hours. Total cost $600. No no no. Must be done with workers. Must pay workers $30 an hour, need 10 workers with shovels. It takes 10 hours to dig the hole over a two day period. Cost $3,000. OMG. What would you be willing to pay for the foundation hole for your new house ????? 🇨🇦
Tesla could announce they would use recovered rain water for much of the production.
Tesla made an error building in Germany. really should have built a few miles East, in Poland or Southeast, in Slovakia.
I am from Germany. Tesla is increasing production the same time VW sales go down. This year a friend of mine bought a Tesla Model 3, nothing special just the basic. Electric cars are funded from the government so at the end he paid just 35.000€, which is quite a lot of money. I would say an averrage yearly income in Germany, at the lower side of averrage.
Comapring this Tesla to other cars, I would rate it a middleclass sportscar. Another friend of mine bought a small electric car, a Renault Zoe but with the full interieur and large battery. This is still a small car, with lower range, lower speed and less features for about 32.000.
My husband and I we bought a two year old Hyundai Kona, which is a compact SUV with middle interieur and small battery and still paid 28.000.
The upkeep for a Zoe or a Kona is far less than for a Model 3, but just this comparison showed what a good deal a Tesla in Germany is. I sat in my friends Tesla twice and I think that even a basic Tesla is an impressive car.
I was a IG Metal unionist for several years and I think that the trade unions especially in the car industry are strong. The workers in this industry earn a lot of money. But even workers at Tesla earn quite more than average workers, for example carpenters or locksmiths. The later are also part of the IG Metal contracts.
So complaining is a bit strange. Instead of worrying about car workers earning a bit less, trade unions should worry about other workers earning more. Because these have a problem especially at the moment, while car workers haven´t.
Tesla workers get stock options at below market price IG Metal union members don´t. Stock options are only taxed at a low rate when you sell the stock in most countries.
This is very good news for Tesla in terms of it's identity as a corporation that might want to grab as larger piece of the market as possible and very bad news for any other manufacturer that continues to bury it's head in the sand and refuse to embrace similar manufacturing innovations that will make EV's (or any other industrial product) cheaper for the consumer.
The very bad news is that if people don't have jobs then they cannot afford to but these products and everyone, including the manufacturers will loose out!
Elon Musk is a far sighted individual and has spoken of the possible need for a 'universal iincome'.
But creating an environment where such things are possible is a very difficult thing requiring governmental and legislative policies, possibly on an international level. Protectionist trade and isolationist policies might work in some areas but not in all.
It's a very very difficult problem to address and continuing to follow the conventional free market economic model and thinking will work against such ambitions.
We will definitely need some radically new and original ideas let alone action upon them.
Intriguingly Green Energy creates FAR MORE JOBs like exponentially more jobs than fossil, yet costs SIGNIFICANTLY LESS / kw…….. perhaps this is a solution to manufacturing automation in Germany …………. Create a smooth pathway for auto workers to work in Green Energy jobs?
That was a greedy smile when you talked about unions. Unions are the reason for Germanys wealth and social peace. Not everyone is only focused on profit.
If German auto makers don’t get more efficient and go 100% EV, they’re all going to die under the boot of Chinese and Tesla EV competition. At least they’ll still have Tesla and the jobs that it does provide as long as they are allow the company to expand. Having Tesla in your country is a great honor and it’s better than no auto makers at all which is where they will be heading if they don’t change their ways.
Robots are tools that make life easier by increasing the power of our mind. Animals don't use tools like we do, and struggle to stay alive. To reject tools is inhuman, ignorant, self-destructive.
Every business has to be competitive. If not it will eventually have to close. In this day and age for manufacturing to be (stay) competitive it has to use automation (including robotics) wherever it is viable.
Presently VW's EVs are not competitive taking 3 to 4 times longer to produce than Tesla EVs. Even if Tesla's German factory is *forced* to shut down, VW is still not competitive - and thus eventually ALL JOBS ARE LOST in both Tesla Germany AND in VW.
Why are so many people so shocked at the inevitability of automation? Fear? Ignorance?
There is no alternative to most efficient production to compete other car manufacturing companies. If the old German companies have slept, their problems. Forget Unions, they are sleeping too.
Do the German workers and their unions think other companies are not moving toward more and more automation? Perhaps they would prefer Tesla move the new production to Poland, Romania, or an country?
Germany's self-view of being an environmentally-conscious state is delusional. Not only does Germany have the highest per-capita carbon footprint in all of the EU, it is also the largest absolute largest carbon emitter in the union. They have a collapsing population due to low fertility rates and an aging population, just like the rest of Europe. Soon there will not be enough workers to build the cars. Automation is a solution, not a problem.
There's no stopping automation. Of course unions are unhappy, but nothing can be done. On top of everything else work is taxed but robots are not. In principle it would be good to shift taxes from income to company profits, except it's very difficult to keep companies from moving profits out of the country with accounting tricks.
If true, this is insane. Could also go back to charriots and horses. WTF? Change, adopt or die.
A woman complained she kept her hunting dogs dangerously short of water to drive them to kill other animals. This is madness.
I'm not sure who's pulling the levers but it's seems like some powerful group wants to bend Tesla to be like the other automakers in Germany struggling to even make money on luxury cars. It's safe to say the future of Tesla is to become a mainstream product
As I understand it, the current plant just produces Model Y. The expansion could add the new version (Project Highland) of Model 3.
Making Model 3 would make sense because it as an aspirational luxury car for affluent middle class in major markets. Would not make sense to make Model 2 unless it was intended for Eastern Europe. As I understand it (I could be wrong) the Tesla plant is located in northern Germany near the Polish border; while the traditional German automotive industry is in southern Germany. So, politically the unions would be a national issue because (with a north south flip flop) it would be like Michigan complaining about a non-Union plant in Tennessee.
Lol at "traditional German automotive industry".
Mercedes Benz is German and beat Tesla to L3 automated driving certification in California and Nevada.
The German automotive industry is on the move toward both self driving and EV tech.
It may take longer for these older corporations to get fully in motion - but once they are Tesla will be buried under an avalanche of better and cheaper product from all sides.
If TESLA doubles production in Berlin, it is the beginning of the end of German automotive leadership
A sixty odd percent increase in ev sales in Germany - but from what base figure ?
100 ? Not many I would imagine.
Right now, Tesla is far from saturating the model-Y market. At Berlin they should focus on batteries and model-Y.
Also, they should focus on another plant in Europe, doing batteries, powerwalls, megapacks, and model-2. Somewhere else in the EU, for instance in Spain.
I’m pro-union, but only for real jobs that really exist. This IG-Metall demand will kill innovation and, ultimately, kill jobs. Tesla should be allowed to proceed with its plans. There are plenty of other jobs that IG-Metall can unionize - like Starbucks baristas, for example.
I've often wondered whether countries are doing themselves a disservice by putting job creation above efficiency. Seems to me that the more efficient economy would actually have more opportunities and innovation which would actually increase employment. I like to see research on this matter, if it exists.
Exactly efficiency creates wealth, which creates more jobs in the long term.
learn to code... that is what you end up with. a labor force that cant not adapt to the new landscape. on paper, it sounds great that old boring labor intensive jobs goes away and new more rewarding ones come in... but the current workforce is not trained, or too old to do the new jobs that will grow over time.
@@8ettieP46e Cry me a river, people go through many jobs in their lives (personally i've had about 10, over ~6 different fields).
@@AORD72 Can we list them? Lets see, Radio repair at 10 years old, sold magazines at 12, worked haying for 14 hours a day at 14, raised eggs on a farm at 15, rebuilt Piper Cubs at 16, worked in a lumber yard until it got burned down, worked in a bakery, worked for a clothing manufacturer, worked on a dairy farm until 18 then went to work in an underground mine in Franklyn, N.J. went into the USAF just before my 19th birthday for 4 years, 1963-1967. Got a job as a radio-TV repairman until the company went bankrupt. Went to work for APS in Phoenix for 8 years as a radio engineer, then as an operations supervisor for 8 years. Went to work for the state of Arizona as the manager of the Ariz Power Authority for 18 years, retired in 2001. Don't cry for me, I had fun.😁
Would've been better to build it in Slovakia or Poland.
Sad (as someone with one quarter German ancestry) when the place for a state of the art, profitable car plant, with a modern product, is clearly no longer Germany. Nothing at all against those other countries; time for them to surpass. Probably Ukraine too after the war and accession.
Absolutely ... Elon seems to be politically naïve in the extreme.
Whatever possessed him to take on the German Unions & their environmentalists when he could have set up in Poland or Slovakia? He's now flirting with India, a place where madness in the extreme rules the day. Mexico is his best call so far for a new location.
They should try to get Tesla to make the robots that make the cars in Germany, and the batteries and other parts , and the chargers , and the software etc. in Germany.
I wonder how many ex VW workers will be building Teslas.
I never understood why tesla did not go to Poland or the Czech republic or some other eastern European country. Then they wouldn’t have to put up with all the union bullshit and government bullshit in a country like Germany.