Persona 5 Analysis [Part 5]: This is Totally Fine. // Codex Entry
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
- this game is haruible haha the commodification of rebellion routinely undermines sincere political movements that actually seek to have beneficial impact on the world for the sake of churning a profit by selling people the illusion of aiding in social change be sure to buy my Phantom Thieves Brand Masks to learn more
★Complete Persona 5 Playlist:
• Persona 5 Analysis
★ Patreon: / codexentry
★ Ko-Fi: www.ko-fi.com/...
★ Subscribe: bit.ly/2qwQw4Q
★ Twitter: / codexentry
★ Twitch: / codexentrytv
Source on the Chibi Grenade Launcher Haru:
/ 866692057317986304
Chibi Haru Pichu for those whomst want it:
/ 1211781211229581313 
Игры
![Persona 5 Analysis [Part 4]: Futaba Breaks Persona 5 // Codex Entry](/img/1.gif)
Your description is godlike.
So...we're finally at the unavoidable point where we can't ignore that P5 is just a bit scared to examine power. This was great! Wonderful send off to the decade. Here's to an even better 2020.
lol
“...An even better 2020” lmao
this did not age well
Haha I hate myself my comment aged like milk
@@HeronHero lmao i am so sorry buddy
"I've been in Ohya before."
I really enjoyed this installment because you raised a very thought provoking point about P5's priorities that I hadn't considered before. I love the game, but I do think its doubling down on waifus and presentation are to the detriment of its story and theming and that really shows the further you get into it.
Your analogy was really good at explaining this. P5 wants to be the cool kid who is up to date on the issues plauging our society but when asked for a solution he has nothing to say outside of "it's bad and we should do something about it". It's great at recognising the problems, and people can relate to them, but not so good at exploring these problems and offering solutions. Problems tend to be magicked away, which is all part of the power fantasy that's being sold. It wants simple solutions to problems that have no simple solutions and that doesn't make for the most enriching of stories at times.
That said, the game's strengths lie elsewhere and I look forward to you discussing them at some point.
The thing in harus storyline that especially ticked me off is when harus dad was speaking to morgana rather then haru.
Morgana is NOTHING to him. Not even a competent thief in his eyes considering he got his tail handed to him when he tried to solo the palace.
So why was he "come to the dark side"ing a nobody over his daughter who now has super powers and he has always had a strong hold on?
Well he tried first with Haru but she quietly turned him down. I agree that he asked Morgana was wired but meybe he figured out that Morgana knows a lot about the Metaverse. Some one like that may proves useful.
@@sofaris576 true. Fair enough, but his grip on haru was clearly slipping. She may have turned him down, but he still had no reason to assume a flexing of his authority wouldn't bring her over.
Secure your assetts before trying to make a new investment.
I guess the big thing is that every other character had a big showing of rebellion against their abuser.
Even ryuji who was traded out half way through his introduction palace was given a chance to tell off kamoshida.
Haru just quietly said no.
Then morgana gets the full attention of the palace boss and the game.
In harus dads palace.
From harus dads shadow.
In harus month
It just feels like they forgot to make room for morganas arc so they shoved him into her palace when it wouldnt make sense.
Haru Pichu is the only good thing you've ever made me draw
but you drew Box-chan
Even people who love the game to pieces generally agree that this section of the game was the weakest. I think you did a good job digging a bit deeper into exactly why that's the case.
Honestly I did not found the Palace that bad and I really like the boss. But while I love Morgana as a character to an abnormal degree I hate this story arc. My love and respect fore the character makes this even worse fore me. My biggest problem is that I think its just dumb fore Morgana to think he is useless. Even with Makotto and Futaba taking over as brain and Navigator he still has a lot to offer to the team. His car transformation on his own is absolutly vital to the team. Without it they would not have been able to even touch Futabas palace ore make it out alive.
And his cat form also proved to be useful. I could go on. And its not like his teammates dont give him any credit. In mementos they often praise his car from.
Honestly I think Morgana actully does live up to his own hype more ore less.
Even disregarding gameplay where its up to the players playstayle and preference he is too good fore it to make sense to think he is useless.
And taking gameplay in to account this is even worse fore me since he is, Joker aside, my best most useful party member. He turns even the new game plus super boss in to a cakewalk but without him I can bearly stay alive even against normal bosses and minibosses. Even after saving the team twice in Okumuras palace he still goes on about how he does not compare to the others.
THISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHIS
*THIS!*
I really liked P5 when I first played it but I didn't love it. I didn't tought about it for weeks after finishing it like P3 or break out crying when I had to say goodbye to this people I had come to know in P4.
It felt hollow.
I remember seeing the ending and the song and thinking "is like P4 but without the heart"
AND THIS IS WHY
When the trailer that first showed Yusuke came out I remember thinking "he looks just like Jun, wouldn't it be awesome if we got that gay option back?" and then I played the game and Yusuke first apperance was the writters trying REALLY hard to make him straight and it was a "no, I HATE this guy" they made him be a creepy stalker to Ann and a blackmailer - they made me hate one of my favorite characters in the whole game just to say "Look! he's not _Gay_!" (even if I don't believe he is, I personally headcanon him as ace, but that's not the point)
Then there was Futaba who I also _adore_ (yes, Futaba is the best character) but the moment they let me chose to iniciate a romantic relationship with her made me so mad. Trought her confidant and Sojiro's it made me feel like the protagonist was getting a familiar relationship just for the game to ask if I wanted to date the person I was starting to think as my little sister.
It felt slimy, as someone in a suit scare to add LGBT+ characters to their game about rebellion and being ostraziced from society (worse than that, making us a joke). It just felt like they wanted to sell more bodypillows.
And that makes me sad. I really enjoyed P5, I love the art direction, the combat, the music, the world, the characters... but I couldn't fell in love with the game itself, like I did with P3 and P4 and it took me a while to understand that it was because it didn't care as much of it's theme
btw, that anarchy dude from highschool is literally SMTIVA.
...
also, am I the only person that didn't had a hard time in Okumura's palace????
I found that last puzzle really fun...
I adore Persona 5, it was the single game that I feel defined me this decade. I went through a very very similar event to what happened to Futaba, and her arc made me feel not so alone about the way I handled grief and the way other people reacted to the event concerning me. To the point that even listening to her Palaces song makes me bawl my eyes out.
Still, though, the game has a lot of glaring issues, and while it's my favorite Persona game due to the emotional connection I have to it, I still look forward to this series because I'm invested in what you have to say about the game. It was well worth the wait, even if I disagree on some points you make in this series, viewing criticism is important for any content you enjoy, especially ones you're emotionally attached to.
Happy 2020 and I really look forward to the next video
Thank god it wasn't just me, I thought this game was going to be some inspirational even anarchist story. The black and red, punk rock aesthetics, themes of rebellion, generational injustices, and concept of unjustified authority harming people really seems to suggest some sort of revolutionary ideology. But the game routinely balks at making any concrete statements or societal reform and falls back on individual failings. It betrays itself. That's not even to say anything about the fucking bizarre God of Control ending. Like what does that suggest about humanity
Yoshida was the first social link I completed. Seeing you relate his flat arc to Luffy in one clip made me realize why I cried at his level 10 out of sheer respect for the man.
I have a couple objections to your analysis in this specific video, which I think come from a slightly uncharitable approach to what Persona 5 says and doesn't say. That said, I really like this video and this series overall, so I hope I can continue engaging with it even if it's no longer your focus for now. I'll get right to it. By the way, I agree with the vast majority of your points throughout, the following are the areas where I think your analysis falls a little short when analyzing the game.
My first point is that they game does have an affirmation of what justice is. It's vague, I would say it's rather safe too, but it's there. It affirms a certain moral stance in which subjugation (willing or unwilling) is wrong. It holds to a certain realism regarding the validity of some norms, which carries with it its own moral stance. It also clearly delineates what an abuse of power is, and that it should be combated. Hell, you get examples of that in many different fields (such as law, politics, capitalism and even smaller-scale forms of power such as a school). With that in mind, it seems that there are instances or examples of "what you should be rebelling against". These seem pretty standard in my opinion, but the game presents clear moral lines against such behavior.
Second: We don't need to necessarily come to the conclusion that institutions and power structures are the problem. I, like you, think it's something the game misses, but I don't think P5 is worse for it. The game gives another message: institutions must be improved. Going back to the affirmation part I mentioned earlier, it seems that P5 is not aiming for an anarchic system, rather, it affirms the usefulness of institutions (the characters that best exemplify this are the Niijima sisters, in different ways), while not falling for a view of them that would equate institutional legality with justice. Rather, the game seems to view justice (and I concede it is not suitably defined,) as something that can exist within the person. It's not exclusive to institutions, but it can exist in them through just individuals, and that's their formula for social reform. Is it naive? Probably. This view invites questions and might seem disagreeable, even unacceptable to some, but it seems undeniable that such a view exists in the game's message. In a sense, it balances the need for strong, just institutions, with checks that exist outside them, in this case, a form of vigilantism (I think Watchmen or some Batman stories do this much better). This, for me, is a theme that is not hidden away. My main argument here is that this is not an oversight or a failure to look at power structures. We may not like the ethical and political stance the game leaves us with, (I know I find it naive in philosophical terms) but it's there for the player to see. As such, attributing the lack of revolutionary change in the game's world to a failure on its part to consider specific ethical ramifications or indeed prescriptions, seems to me to be a misreading of the message the game is trying to tell and the goal it sets for its story.
Let me stress another point. This is not a defense of the game's theme, rather, it is an argument for the existence of its depth. I'm not going to debate whether or not it does it better than the previous two. I think that you couldn't make the same incredibly deep videos you made on the other two about this one. That said, it seems to me that a well thought out theme is there and in an examined form. It is definitely true that it doesn't seem to be the deepest examinations of said theme, but your attacks on the specific effort seem a little unjustified in how vicious they come off as.
Lastly, the analogy. I think that it overstays its welcome in a way. First of all, it sneaks in a premise that Persona 5 is by definition shallow, inconsistent and with ulterior motives to boot. Hopefully, my above points made that consideration at least questionable. Secondly, it also presupposes that the conclusion/goal of anti-authoritarianism is some of form of revolutionary workers-party-style anarcho-communism. I don't think that is what the anarchist tradition thinks, and there are others ways of thinking about and affirming resistance. Additionally, I think there is a far longer-running tradition of resistance and civil disobedience, from de la Boétie, Locke, Rousseau, Emerson and Thoreau, to Bakunin, Foucault and beyond (and the many, many I missed) that is more akin to what this game wants to argue for with its view on justice and unjust uses of power. Granted, I also think that this game itself, for several of the reasons you mentioned, wouldn't fit neatly in such a tradition. It's not lost on me that this game is clumsy and sometimes unsuccessful. The point is analyzing what the goals are that made the game fall in instances of failure to meet them, this is what I think you don't fully identify with your analogy, because it doesn't capture the goal of the game.
It is important to look in detail at what the game is trying to say (and how and when it fails in this effort), rather than at what we are frustrated it doesn't talk about. As for the questions you ask concerning "what does that mean" and "how was X allowed to happen", I think the game does face up to that. Again, not on the most satisfactory way, but to say that it simply falls silent when presented with those questions is false. As strong example is this: Sae has a whole bit about how the system aims for convictions in all persecutions, which is a clear criticism of Japan's borderline authoritarian justice-system (which focuses so strongly on convictions and success, not on innocence or guilt). The game goes to great lengths to show you and make you feel just how far one has to go in such a system to get a conviction to be overturned. I think the game essentially being kicked off by a case like this, and two palaces being dedicated to that twisted way of looking at the law and justice are both examples of how this game is not afraid to tackle a fairly strong issue, even if it is one that is more strongly felt in home soil. I'd argue this satisfies the condition you mentioned of examining power in a specific context and how the deployment of authority can be considered wrong.
With the above in mind, I will say that it does feel like this game is more interested in just telling its story rather than examine a specific question as part of such a story. It's certainly, as you put it, a shift in priorities.
More importantly, my main argument here is this: we should resist the idea that the only real examination of power that can come of an effort like the one P5 seems to set up (or any other game, book, movie, etc.) is the one that in your opinion it fails to address. This replaces analysis with specific prescriptions of how to play by specific political-philosophical rules. I then would argue that this game doesn't just outright refuse to talk about complicated ethical questions. I will certainly concede that it is not my favorite examination of such a theme, and that I don't like where it goes with its analysis of unjust power in most instances. Hell, I feel like I'm defending the indefensible just by writing this comment in a video where you talk about Okumura, one of the biggest failures of this kind in the game (I fully agree that this part of the story was not exploited for what it could have been, particularly in the case of capitalism rewarding a specific kind of unethical behavior and the connection of massive corporations to political institutions). As a result, I do think that this game has major slumps along the way, from thematic dissonance to missed opportunities. That said, I would hardly call it immoral or complicit, at least not more so than any other videogame in the market.
As for the message being self-righteous, I think that is more of an issue with repetition and the stating or establishing of a theme (which I do think is clumsy in this case, as there are better devices to do this) combined with an inherently political message such as resistance. Any one who goes on about a specific ethical, political or moral point eventually looks self-righteous regardless of the message thanks to repetition and constant affirmation. It might be a length issue as well as a writing one.
In any case, I had some of these thoughts since back when this video released, but I didn't want to replay P5 a third time or watch a full playthrough in order to refine, abandon or confirm some of my views, but with Royal I ended up doing just that. I sincerely hope this isn't standoffish. Rather, I hope this is a counterpoint to some of the arguments I saw from this video which I liked but didn't fully agree with. As I said in one of my much older comments in another part of your series: I appreciate this kind of work, it forces me to reconsider some fairly shitty and great aspects of my favorite games. Some of those points, some of which are here on this video, have made me seriously examine my own opinions on games I liked without fully knowing why (Persona 3) or to fully change my opinion about games I hold dear (Persona 5, DMC 4, and others). So when I make criticisms like the ones outlined above, I hope they can be seen as contributions to a philosophical conversation, rather than an attack on your effort here. If anything, I would like this to be me offering a different consideration of what the game does, and the beginning of an interpretation of that.
Feel so called out by that Kropotkin bit. It's on my to do list I swear
To be clear: The point isn't that your beliefs are invalid if you haven't read some book or whatever, but rather the act of not caring about exploring them, about having no curiosity about what they actually involve. It's the difference between having sincere beliefs vs just enjoying an aesthetic.
EDIT: Part 6 isn't happening for the foreseeable future. After trying to play Royal I discover that I do, in fact, just kind of straight up hate this game, especially in the face of what the world has become over the past few years. This combined with the much stronger success I've had talking about other games, my desire to talk about art I love over art I hate, and the fact that, frankly, I don't think I'm gonna be able to change anyone's mind about this game means that I just do not give enough of a shit about this game anymore. Maybe one day. But not today. Sorry if that's anti-climactic, but I hope you still learned something all the same. I know I did. Thank you for watching.
Did you at the game it's obviously about corrupt people so yea
Codex Entry i completely forgot you were doing these sooo I’m gonna be watching these when I go to work but I gotta say that intro is actually fire
Haven't played this game. Haven't watched any of your series on it. Still gonna watch the video cause I miss you boo.
Okay so I missed this when it came out because I was on self-imposed-Persona-embargo to avoid P5R spoilers. I really like a lot of what you've got to say here - for my money I think that the whole Okumura Palace section is deliberately designed to feel a little dissatisfying to reflect what's actually going on behind-the-scenes at that point in the story, but obviously that's a really difficult line to walk and I can fully appreciate why it doesn't connect that well as a result.
The reason I'm replying instead of commenting is because I think that the new content that P5R brings does pose a new and interesting question, and that it is answered with considerably more conviction than the questions that are posed in the base game. I'd be really intrigued to hear your opinions on it if you get around to making a video on it, but for now I'm just looking forward to the rest of the P5 series!
Edit: oh yeah the other bit I meant to mention was that Haru's Confidant also offered a great opportunity to examine not only structures of corporate power and how to dismantle them from the inside but also tackling the notion that adults are either inherently 'untrustworthy' or 'good' through the narrative of Takekura's repeated attempts to get Haru to cede the presidency and/or looking into the balance Haru now has to find between not wanting to relinquish any of her ideals in running Okumura Foods and the effect that has on the well-being of both her and the company and/or evaluating whether it's better to try and reform a company as crooked as Okumura Foods or just smash it down and start again with the consequences that has on all of its employees whooooooooooooooooops
Super excited to sit down and enjoy this wonderful video once new years is over and I can actually relax.
I enjoyed the vid, I'm always excited to see this series on P5 return each time you put it out.
I gotta say, I don't agree with alot of your criticisms of this game, but I think that that's why I watch these videos.
It's good to get some differing opinions on the media we love, helps us round out our opinions.
Keep up the good work!
I don't expect or even want everyone who listens to my opinions to completely agree with them by any means. That's basically impossible and would make discussions around art be almost instantly boring. That said, I do always want them to be understandable and approachable, so it always makes me happy to hear people say stuff like that because it means I'm succeeding in that. Thank you for taking the time to listen to a differing opinion!
I'll be honest, Yoshida and Ohya are two of my favourite confidants when I initially didn't think they'd be good. I'm glad I gave them a chance now that I'm partly through them
I really agree with your point about the thematic cowardice of P5. It really refuses to examine how power is distributed and used.
For me (as someone who is probably more libertarian than you), that was most clear in how the power to change hearts was never examined critically. Sure, the rival character is, in a way, a vision of how the power can be abused, but P5's answer to that is just, "well, he was bad so he used the power for evil, but you're good so you used it for good." And that's such a shitty answer. They tease but never really explore the possibility that, hey, maybe invading someone's mind, changing their thoughts without consent, possibly even mentally killing them, is a power that should never be used for any reason.
It would be fine if P5 ultimately expresses the idea that there are situations in which using the Phantom Thief power is justified (Kamoshida is great example). But P5 never even argues the point, it sidesteps it. Hell, the gang lose the power at the end of the game, completely removing the need to deal with what to do with the weapons of rebellion once the rebellion is successful. It's just kind of disappointing.
I am glad this is last thing I get to see before the year ends.
This may sound stupid, but I just thought Yoshida had left political views because of his red tie. His calls for unification are a means toward accomplishing political goals, not an end in and of themselves.
Your use of "Hell March" was masterful, btw.
I basically assumed Yoshida was the opposite of the right-wing ultranationalist Shido. It would have been great if his confidant arc had tied into the main villain directly, maybe he could help the player oppose Shido. But then you have to take into account that players might not have built a relationship with him.
Honestly, if you want to find faults in something, you can, without exception. Noticing them, isn't the same as hating something. I love a lot of things that have a lot of flaws, and so does everyone else.
I personally think, Yoshida's political stance is unimportant. The whole point of his story is, ven when society has broken you, you can still make a difference, and change people's lives for the better.
Like the situation you created for Makoto, after she becomes corrupted after serving for ten years as a police officer. She can still become a better person, and change lives for the better, despite hitting the lowest point in her life.
Haru in a nutshell :
"I'm just gonna drink coffee until someone else solves my problems for me."
I never got that impression. We must have been playing different games.
@@GrubKiller436 every confidant is her drinking coffee somehow, then bam "I'm a ceo that can fix your problems. So keep drinking coffee."
All her problems are fixed. Yay starbucks
And then I’m going to fuck around with my plants cause it’s soothing or some shit
hopefully this series can end before P5R releases in the states lol
Platinum_Strawhat whoops
This didn't age very well, did it?
Hey there...sorry to be the barer of bad news but...
...like a fine wine.
I felt so conflicted on those three confidants specifically and your breakdown really help me understand more why I feel that way, also it's clear you love persona 5 and the series after all if you didn't you would not put so much effort into these videos being critical of the game. Now if only it doesn't take a whole year for the next part that would be great
I've been waiting on this installment for so long, thank you Codex 🥰
To bring up the question on wether or not its a matter of a lack of confidence or passion I'm leaning on lack of passion. It really stems from a thought I had a while back
"For a game that's supposed to be about rebellion, P5 (and Atlus for that matter) sure does love telling me what I can and can't do"
TLDR: I don't quite think you are right in thinking that Persona 5's theme is about rebelling against the system, rather I think it's a continuation of the themes of Persona 3 and 4, it doesn't seek to rebel against any system, just against the people that prevent you from living your life the way you want and I think the Calendar System is not out of place in Persona 5 because, much like Persona 3, it's a countdown, but not to your death, but to Joker's freedom.
I mean I don't agree with everything you've said but I will say that you have made many good points when it comes to the flaws of this game but I feel like I have to add my two cents into this because a few things you said caught my attention:
I'm gonna use your previous analysis of Persona 3 and 4 because I really liked those analysis, the themes and how they conect with one another. Persona 3 is all about how life is finite and thus you must live your life to the fullest, Persona 4 is how to live life you must be honest with yourself about your virtues, your flaws and what you want to do with life, since, up until this point, Persona has tried to conect the themes with one another I believe that Persona 5 is about having the will to live life the way you want it, not how others want you to live it:
You said in your Persona 4 video that the game despises people that seek simple answers, I would argue that Persona 5 also despises a certain type of people, and that is those who are lazy, complacent and dependent, let's be honest here how many times did we just accelerate the scenes from the train or in the loading screens because we couldn't stand those ignorant people judging us when they didn't know anything about us, especially towards the end? Being lazy in the game lands you the worst endings, being complacent towards society just leads you to bad endings in general. And then there is Mishima, Mishima is a representation of the worst of society in the game, he is whiny, clingy and attaches himself to the Phantom Thieves to get a sense of worth, it's not until the end of his Confidant that he truly becomes his own self, and it is only then that the scene with Yaldabaoth is unlocked, because he is truly standing up for himself against a society that didn't care.
And that leads me to the two things you said, first you said that the calendar system is out of place in the game because it doesn't tie in to anything. This is false, from the beginning the game has told you that you must break free and to take your time, much like a prison break that you would see in a movie you must pick your moment and in this case the game makes it explicit that without friends you will never break free. As the game progresses one could notice that the options in dialogue begin to be limited but this can be dismissed as an oddity, but it builds up to the last choice in the game, Joker, not the player, choosing to go to jail, with this act Joker has essentially broken all chains, from Yaldabaoth, from the player, from society, and become his own man. I read in a comment that they found it nonsensical that Sae would place faith in the system that she knew was bad to treat him fairly, this is a misconception, she is not placing faith in the system, much like any other Confidant she has none in it, but she has faith in herself and her abilities to get Joker out of it, no matter what society decries.
And the second point, you said that Persona 5 did not dabble in it's themes, but I think you mislead yourself by concentrating in the part of "rebelling against the system", Persona 5 doesn't care a lot about politics, no political party is ever introduced in this and that's not an accident. Persona 5 asks the players to live life the way they believe to be right, not led by other people, it doesn't matter who they are, or how powerful they are, they have no right to tell you how to live your life. In this lense the game constantly questions the rammifications of this through the question of whether the Phantom Thieves are right or not, because by rebelling against society they are inadvertedly saying that society should listen to them, which results in the bad ending of accepting Yaldabaoth's offer. The Phantom Thieves do not care about political parties or capitalism, or communism, or any of those things, they merely want a society where those who are strong do not lord over those who are weak and choose every aspect of their lives, I know you are probably gonna rant about the Holy Grail but that's the thing, Yaldabaoth is no less a Deus Ex Machina than Izanami ever was, he is the representation of what you have to fight in the game, people telling others how to live, and weaklings who can't stand up for themselves.
In essence Persona 5 tells you to fight against the concept of normality, none of your Confidants are normal people, but they are people who knew what they wanted but since the current order didn't like it, they were beaten until they accepted that that was their lot in life but you must guide them back to that same resolve, because they weren't wrong. Persona 5 celebrates abnomarlity, it celebrates individuality, and it tells you that weird people are not to be feared, rather it's the seemingly "normal" people that have to be opposed, because only you get to decide what you want for your life, and it doesn't matter if it's your teachers, a celebrity, criminals, corporations, politicians, or even the concept of God, they are not your masters, and they don't get to decide how you live. Persona 3 taught us that life is finite, and thus must be lived to it's fullest, Persona 4 taught us that to live life you must be honest with yourself and connect with those around us to become better, and Persona 5 tells us that we all are individuals that are worth something, and we all deserve to live the life and make the decisions that we want to make.
I know this is a 6 month old comment but you really put into words why I love the game so much. It might not be strong in the political sense but that doesn’t matter, what matters is it’s focus on the people in it’s story.
@@phillemon7664 Thanks man! It's true, the game isn't very strong in the political sense but I don't think it was ever trying to be to begin with, I played Persona 5 for the characters and did they deliver!
Haru is my favorite main cast character... Aesthetically.
I hate her everything else basically.
BTW the last few minutes made me realize: In a way, that's what our modern society is. We have hundreds of thousands of the next generation on their phones, convinced that canceling people on Twitter is what will make the world a better place. That the individuals that they remove in their communities will inevitably make everyone's life a better place, even if they're not removing the structures in place that put those people there in the first place.
It's, in a weird way, almost an exact mirror image of the very real problem facing modern and future societies: No one wants to remove the actual structures in place, or question them, because not only do they partially benefit from their existence, part of the problem is people are either too afraid to address them on their own or have found organizing against people in power to be too difficult. It is, in the end, much easier to convince yourself that attacking That Guy on the internet will subsequently improve your and everyone else's life, even if there is evidence of the contrary.
Love that Eva parody
When a company makes an aesthetically pleasing game with a theme that really appeals to people in a society BUT realizes how divisive it would be to really examine that them because it would hurt profits.
Well let’s just look pretty and say nothing at all other a surface level examination on the human condition.
Theme meant to say theme instead of them
Put a than after other also
Even if that wasn’t the original intention that Atlus had in mind it is the reality we are living in so...
We literally go inside people's hearts and explores it througholy did you play the fuckin game cause I don't think you have beyond kamoshidas palace mate
@June what did you do her confidant yknow one of the most useful and best in the game it was done in a similar way to toriumi from persona 3 the difference is that she has to do it because her student died
I really hope we get the rest of this. These videos are a great way to learn in depth about the game. I know with royal it got a lot more complicated but I would so love to see the feast analysed as well, be it "just"vanilla or the royal parts as well
Man I hate finding these amazing analysis that are perpetually unfinished masterpieces
Your point on P5's priorities really got me thinking about it on a level I'd never really thought about. As much as I love P5, P3 and 4 were always superior games imo, but I could never quite figure out why exactly. I always had it chalked up to "I liked P3's characters, themes and story (really everything about P3) more" or "I feel like P4 represents the "Persona" style best and I like it's story more". But I think the point on it's priorities is hitting the nail on the head. I could tell that the commercialisation of waifus in P5 was a detriment to the characters, but I hadn't considered it being a detriment to the SLs, the story as a whole, as well as the themes of the game.
Man, I missed these so much.
I know it's been a while since your last upload of this series, but I appreciate your work on this analysis
It’s always good to watch these videos, even if I disagree with a lot of he stuff you said. But that’s okay. I personally love both the beach and Hawaii scene, I love the jovial banter between the characters and I love spending time with my friends. I do agree a lot with the palace though, that sucks. I guess I am a little bias with the game seeing how it got me through a rough period in my life. P.S. just got done watching the whole thing and while I do agree that the game should have taken some more time to expand and explore it’s themes, I still think that when it came to the characters, it touched in them very well. While it may lack in substance in tackling more broader issues like corruption, greed, sexual abuse, etc. when it came to the characters the theme of freedom and being yourself and living for yourself was really great and honestly really inspired me. Again, I may be bias since the game helped me out a lot while I was in a very dark place mentally. And I do agree that sometimes the waifus can be a little obnoxious, I can forgive it if it doesn’t get in the way of character development, which I really think it didn’t. Ann, while yes she was sexualized, I think it was actually very empowering how she used it in combat and owned it, rather than letting society at large choose how and what she would do with it. As for Haru, yeah, she is a bit of a wasted opportunity and I do wish they focused a lot on her more, but it was nearing the end of the game, so idk. Lastly, I see Morgan’s gets some flack for being a loud mouth, but honestly I think, while the execution could have been better, I think this ark really helped him grow. Plus, the gang was WAY too hard on him sometimes, like how dismissive they were of him being absent. So, I’m conclusion, while I may disagree I still love these videos and your analysis on them. Keep up the good work!
i'd kill to have my own character development narrated by you like i'm some kind of Persona confidant thank you
Okay, I just found this series and binged the whole thing. Pretty good so far, hope it continues someday.
I personally didn´t love this game because I hate the fact that it pretends to make a deep analysis of its theme, but it´s incapable or too scared to portray that, but I love the multiple and different analysis it allows, and yours has been the best one I found, especially the parts in which you analysis how it handles the confidants' themes and stories; I can´t wait for the next part.
(Sorry for my English, and Happy New Year).
Yo Ruby, I freaking love your series on Persona 5, but since it's been a while since the last episode (this one) I was just wondering if you were going to continue the project at all, and if so, if you were gonna take Persona 5 Royal into consideration. Thanks again for the amazing videos!
found myself rewatching these videos and realizing there was never a conclusion. Great video series, and thoroughly enjoyed listening to the breakdowns art by arc.
Now that I've had the chance to actually digest this, I have to say fucking A right.
You've summarized the reason why I was able to beat this game twice in the first month of having it, and then never touching it again.
I kinda feel bad that people who got into Persona and SMT did so through this game, because even though it is good enough to inspire that love, I always feel like the grumpy old asshole thinking the older ones are better. They grew to love a series the same level I did, but through a game I don't think deserved it.
That ending was fantastic.
I waited so long for this. Thank you so much. It’s so difficult to have the motivation to make these sorts of videos with a smaller audience. So I’m glad you’re continuing to express more of your passion for this video game.
What a way to end your year and start mine.
I am so glad you are continuing this series, especially with P5R seeing a western release really soon!
As someone that played Persona 4 Golden first it set a precedent of what I expected a Persona game to be. That being freedom to choose to do whatever you want on a free day and every now and then a scripted event would take place that would spend your entire day. Honestly I enjoyed both equally when I played the game, but 2 years later from finishing the game the moments that first come to mind from Persona 4 would be the days the cast just hangs out together over the murder mystery plot. The game isn't better or worse for this, just an observation.
Afterwards I played Persona 5 which was a great experience and made me a better and more passionate person, but when it comes to the first thing I remember from the game only one moment comes to mind. In Hawaii when Ann tells the us that she's comfortable sleeping in the same room as the guys. It is a moment that surprised me and was a nice moment that fleshed out her character, but that is pretty much all I can remember of the top of my head.
Then I played Persona 3. It, unlike the other Persona games this one had the best of both worlds. I remember the moments with the characters, but also the core themes of the games.
It might just be that I've matured more so could be the case for enjoying the game the most, but from what I can remember in Persona 3 and Persona 4 I never had to look deeper to enjoy the games i just did, however watching this series made me enjoy the little details I've missed however also pointing out the flaws I looked pas
P5 best gameplay
P4 best characters
P3 best story in my opinion
while i respecfully disagree with alot of the end portion of the video when it comes to stuff like what the game should be saying vs what it is saying, and i do think the game makes statments about power structures, but just that instead of saying they should be abolished it instead says they should be improved on to reflect the will of the people. I also think it states that its the indifference of the people at large is what causes these men to stay in power, since the ending also implies that if people realized the full extend of the harm the status quo is causing society that they would have started protesting a long time ago, and that conservatism is what causes that indiffrence. so ultimately the game comes to a libreal conclusion on all of this, which to be frank i agree with politically more than the conclusion you propose the game should come to. but regardless you are very well spoken and you got me to look at my favorite games in a diffrent light. this video series in some ways made question why i liked the game, and in doing so made me think more critically about media i like, especially when it talks about overtly political themes such as in persona 5. it made me recognize some of the games flaws, new strengths I hadn't realized, and examine what the game said, which ultimately made me more confident in its well done, all be it not as well done as the previous games, themes and messaging. also cant wait for part 6.
OMG I'm glad to know I wasn't the only person who played Eternal Sonata
Didn’t even watch the video. Just replayed the first two seconds over and over again.
Really glad someone appreciated that, spent more time making that seemless than I really should have lol
Codex Entry your editing is pretty goddamn good dude
This is my opinion. Freedom and rebellion is treated as "the answer" concept in Persona 3. Each person has his or her own answer, no one can tell you what it is but yourself.
With that said, the problem with this analysis I see is it skips the problem that freedom and rebellion haa different shapes.
There is political freedom (That's why we don"t know the politician ideas but we do know he oppose the corruption and authoritarianism in Shido's party) and emotional rebelion.
Emotional freedom and rebellion is a thing, we as humans need to grow and the society sometimes stop us to persue what our emotions told us to persue, that opression of the psyqui.
Sadly I am spanish speaker so I don't know how to call exactly some concepts of sociology and political studies that apply in this game, but shortly explaining... there is some shapes of power that utilizes the contacts you have to secure your power, those contacts could use any means for the sake of oneself goals, there is when the emotion came in place.
Hifumi as example, she is in a problem and she doesn't know how to deal with it, some people simply don't have the means to go ahead, and as I say "If nothing change, nothing could change", and there is when you as player go as start to open the path to those that there emotions has been opressed by the powers abode them.
I empathize with Hifumi because of that, I once was in a situation like that where I didn't see the scape route to go on and another one opened me the path. Then I continue and helped other who need opening theid paths better as I can.
That's one way of freedom and rebellion, one that connects with the society thing, the power stuff, and the subconscious of the people, their emotions.
I read the bread book this year and it was so gosh dang enlightening.
I cannot express how desperately I need to hear your opinion on Akechi and how that may have changed in playing Royal.
Still waiting. The waiting hurts so much! Lol
A good way to start of the new year!
This is glorious. It has so much worth really talking about for better or worse. And why I'm never gonna stop watching 1, 2, 3, 6 hour long projects.
Wish I had buckets of money to shovel at every beloved mad artist who takes on such projects. But the reasons that is the case deserves its own series of Palaces.
Still love this series so much and I cannot wait to see the rest!
Been coming back to the end of this video on a weekly basis. Makes me want to play P4 again.
Thanks for another great video! Tbh i didnt think you were that harsh to p5 so far so no worries. About those two dudes being the only non light skinned...well there is a dark skinned black guy npc at the bar (which i personally appreciated). In any case thanks for the great content!
Wasn't there also that one Hawaiian guy, who instructed them on where to find their busses during the school-trip?
My man, came back at last. Can't wait for another Perfect Parry Podcast, listening to the old ones more than 3 times gets a little stale, but i do watch your other stuff too of course. Just nice to hear you again
This deadass got me motivated to edit the current P3cast audio I've been sitting on, expect something soon
@@CodexEntry *Pterodactyl screeching*
I don't get why people would think you hate the game. I even remember watching your first video about how you really like it. You're just acknowledging the flaws of what it is otherwise a spectacular game. It's something fans of series and franchises should really do instead of blindly hating or loving it. I am surprised to see this video since it's been a long while from the last part but I do appreciate it either way
I will always love my pancake boy akechi. You wont be able to convince me otherwise lol
I'm still praying for the day we get part 6
That intro was (pretty) cool
at 24 min..
"They dont tend to like that in japan."
"She feels real"
Oo sick burn.
I love the analysis of ohya! this is such an insightful part
What a pleasant notification to receive! Thank you for continuing this excellent breakdown.
I’m glad you’re addressing the super homophobic throwaway bit-it’s by far the thing that threw me most the first time I played this game.
Happy New Year!
Love your analysis on Persona 5!!! Binged all 5 parts!!! I can't wait for part 6!!! I'd love to see an analysis of Persona 3 or 4 when you're done with this series.
His point on the most amount of time is so shit... just cuz it has the most means nothing lmao
44:11 MOVIES WITH MIKEY!
I feel like the only person who understood the way the airlock puzzle worked, but even then it felt so tedious.
I just kept running like a chicken with his head cut off. I eventually came out the other side feeling... Dirty
I somehow managed to do it firsr try, no guide or whatever, the first time i played it.
Second time.... god it took what felt like years
I got the idea pretty quick, it was just a matter of figuring out how to set it up right. But now I feel weird for getting it
Very great and thought-out video. Ohya is actually one of my fav confidants in the entire series. She's pretty realistic and her design, as you said, is good too.
Lol it having most amount of girls means nothing what a shitty point lmao
I mainlined this entire series today and I am so, SO, SOOOO looking forward to you ripping Akechi apart because I hate him as much as I liked the game as a whole.
Your critique of the game is very interesting and well reasoned. Thank you for sharing it. I hope to see part six soon!
Make one for sae palace!!! Ill literally pay you to continue this series
Glad you enjoy it! This series will very much still be continuing in the near future and will 100% be completed next year, scripts are already being written. That said, if you wanna help make it easier for me to get around to it as soon as possible, then supporting me on Patreon would go a long way towards making that happen while also letting you see previews and early cuts when I do begin working on it :D
@@CodexEntry for sure man! Ill hit up your patreon! Me and the phantom theives are paitiently waiting for your next persona video ^_^
Been waiting a year for this damn video lmfao. Glad its finally hear.
I just found your channel and have watched all the P5 analysis up to this point and ultimately decided to sub because the intro to this video is fcking fire.
also I completely agree with you that this section of the game is the absolute worst like dude...if I didn't love Sae's palace so much, idk if I could bother playing through Okumura again.
I need more of this series
"It does not make me want to die... yet."
Happy new year!
Editing was godlike, well done.
These videos are so great, as always. Are you planning on talking about ...P5R?
It's mainly a matter of seeing how much it changes, but knowing what i currently know about it, I don't expect it to meaningfully change what it is I'm here to talk about. It seems more like an enhancement more than a proper new version a la P3 Portable, so while I may talk about specific differences at some point or maybe even do a bonus video, I don't really think it's that vital. We'll see when i play it first hand tho.
@@CodexEntry YOUR LAST POINTS HAVE BEEN FIXED IN ROYAL AS ITD GOING INTO KASUMIS TRAUMA AND DEPRESSION SO
@@CodexEntry Based on what I know, I think a bonus video would be the best way to tackle what is added in P5R. Most significant additions/changes are lategame anyway. Thanks again for the videos. They've really helped me understand why I felt so lukewarm on P5, having been awestruck by the integration of meaningful themes in P3 and P4 previously.
53:00 - How come capitalism seems to give massive power to cruel bastard men?
The interplay of different contradictory answers to this question could make a more interesting set of confidants. The following is a list of some answers and writers who would agree with them.
1.) The problem lays with meddlesome bureaucrats preventing the free market from doing what it is supposed to do. (Mises, Rothbard, Hayek, Ridley)
2.) The problem lays in some inherent flaw with the free market which interference might help alleviate. (Keynes, Marx, Malthus)
3.) It is the nature of power, and no system could ever cure it. At most it can only be tempered. (Burnham, Pareto, Machiavelli, Hobbes)
4.) It is part of a cycle that fluctuates between virtue or vice. (Possibly Courage or Cowardice) (Spengler, Strauss, Howe)
I think the part about P5 simply relies on a deus ex machina to solve problems should be nuanced a bit.
** Spoilers **
Basically all the game's scenario brings the Phantom Thiefs to target bigger and bigger fishes that plague society, just to discover after taking down Shido that it ultimately didn't change anything.
This is pretty much the statement the game is trying to make, not always in the clearest or most subtle manner (and no, the game isn't subtle, but that's not a flaw in itself as long as it hits its target): what plagues the world arn't the deeds of evil people but the general indifference toward those deeds. The PT don't beat Yaldabaoth on their own, they lose against him. Yaldabaoth's defeat only comes when people realize that their indifference actually brought them into hell and decide to fight-back. In my mind, this is what the game urges the player to rebel against: not single terrible individuals but the certitude no good can or should be done. This point is interesting, its problem is just that it is only brought at the very end and can feel a bit disconnected from the game. Actually, this is probably why they chose the arc of Maruki in P5R, it allows to undelrine that providential powers are not a solution to the world's problems.
I do agree on the fact that this issue is poorly portrayed in the game until the very end, the theme lacks foreshadowing and should have transpired in a more transparent way. As it is, the PT spend 80% of the game chasing wrong targets by trying to change the hearts of evil people without tackling the root of the problem, and we don't get to see them gaining insights from what they've learnt from their misguided super-hero attempt to improve the world around them on their own (maybe it was done in Persona 5 Scramble, I didn't play it yet). This is a flaw, but I don't think we can criticize the game for defending the idea that super heroes are what's needed to fix the world. In fact, the game is making the opposite point.
But great video, really look forward for the 6th if it's still prevuced (will it be modified based on P5R?). The point about waifus and the lack of analysis of social mechanisms that generate corrupted people are still completely valid though.
23:38 I have to whole-heartedly disagree. As someone who only likes Tae, Oya, and Kawakami; Oya was the only one who felt the most real in the whole game. "Real" in how she acts and how you realistically got to regularly hang out with her without seeming like a desperately clingy person.
24:00 O_O but if that's what you think then no amount of discussion will explain Oya's appeal.
I felt like this is exactly what I said in that section. She feels grounded and relatable and I really dig that. I personally don't find the drinking to be an unattractive trait, but it's not something most people would put down as a dream feature for someone they want to romance which, imo, is a good thing. Most of the femme characters in here don't have those kinds of rough edges and they feel a little alien at times as a result. Ohya's the only one who doesn't have that and I think that's cool.
In Persona 5 Royal the okumura boss fight is so bad, that you are happy that Akechi shot him.
29:29 YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I SAID THE SAME THING!!!!!
"No good Tora" is EAISLY one of my fav confidant I played Persona 5 while I was in college trying to get my Crim degree and he single handedly inspired me to get shit done and even if its unpopular it's important to stand by my principles of justice and progress. He taught me that making mistakes (although nowhere near as bad as him mind you) does not mean you have to lose sight of yourself even when others deem your actions as "performative" or "fake" because of past mistakes. "Good people often need power to do good things" is very well said and if theres anything I've learned in 2020 its that there are many bad people in power and the good ones out there need to step forward to fight against oppression.
Edit: I will agree that Persona 5's politics can be.....for a lack of a better word ambiguous sometimes. I get the vibes its heavy left leaning but it doesn't want to commit to outright calling out conservativism by its definition as being backwards thinking and counterproductive for social and economic change for those living in the country,
But I also think that a game like Persona 5 being made in Japan, a country that is known for its demand of conformity for its population, a country that literally had threats of a coup just based on the action of disarming it's country's military by the "hawks" of its country ie: "Yukio Mishima" the fact that this game exist at all is fucking incredible to me and as much as I do agree with your stances in these videos I also kind of get the "why" this game is so inconsistent. Otherwise they couldn't make these dumbass dancing games. Speaking on institutional issues would be difficult for a game like this as much as I want it.
I always thought mementos and yaldabaoth were supposed to represent how society or the system has faults that lead to bad people getting power, that it is a systemic problem, that it's not just the fault of individuals abusing their power (although I think they should have spent more time delving into that instead of doing it at the end of the game). I also feel that it does point to some systems that we should rebel against the major one in my opinion being the police (lots of anti-cop sentiments in the game). However, I do agree to some degree that it is afraid to make bolder statment, especially in terms of what exactly we should do to stop injustices or which or type of people lead to these things happening (I would have loved if they brought up specific laws that should be put into place or called out a specific political party or something). Personally, I think it's due to the game wanting the player to decide those things (as well as to be more marketable as you mention) but I think it should have hit harder. The game at least points to problems and says enough for me to be ok with it, but it could have been way better (don't get me wrong, anyone who could be reading this. I love this game with all my heart but it has problems and it can be fun to discuss them).
Good video, even if I disagree a little. It's refreshing to hear people discuss things like this with the game.
Super good analysis here! Keep making awesome content!
So I'm a bit late to the party here, but did part 6 get taken down or did it just never happen for some reason?
It didn’t happen because Royal came out and changed some issues and that would be too much work to incorporate into the pre-existing review and yada yada you get the idea.
I have a complex relationship with these games. My favorite game is Persona 5, but give me a choice of which game I like better out of P5, P4, and P3, and I'll tell you Persona 4. But ask me which of those 3 is the best and I'll tell you that Persona 3 is the best.
I really don't know how to put this, but While my favorite game is Persona 5, I don't know why. I love the game, don't get me wrong, but I can much faster point out problems rather than strengths (I mean, I'm LGBTQ, Imagine my reaction to those two who shall not be named). But, I fell like this was my favorite game, out of all games. I feel it may have something to do with the fact I literally am just Yusuke (not the blackmail part) and a bit of Futaba (and not the part that makes you feel bad for her, the shut yourself away part) but these two aren't really my favorite characters. I just like the game.
But Persona 4, out of the Persona games, is my favorite. It just resonates better (not Kanji, I love him and I am LGBTQ, but most LGBTQ characters are hard for me, someone who met no real issues with it, to relate to). I feel the message is uplifting, and the game is just enjoyable, yeah.
But Persona 3 is the best made Persona game. Best of them all. The message is down, the game is down, so is the characters, and it just works.
This is starting to sound like you would enjoy mainline SMT a whole lot more. It deals a whole lot more with the actual ideologies themselves.
These have been really great analyses, but to end it here really DOES feel like you’re leaving it at contradicting your initial praise. You’ve said a *couple* positives about the game, and mostly it’s been negative. Not “this game sucks” but “this is such a letdown and inferior by comparison.”
I’m also really interested to see your analysis of how the theme continues forward (the petty uses of power are directly addressed toward the end as “we lost our way”-we’re *supposed* to feel anxious and confused about the real meanings of rebellion and justice), but it’s been four months now.
As much as I understand and even sorta agree about your point regarding Persona 5's biggest weakness, I also feel like it's exactly the same weakness that Persona 3 and especially 4 had:
The writers of these games are either not allowed or not brave enough to discuss sexual and political topics outright.
Persona 3 had it the easiest, because those themes weren't necessary for it to explore its central topic of death.
In 4, the writers decided to tackle many sex-related topics, but honestly, if I remember correctly, there was NEVER a point in that game when someone stated outright "Kanji is gay" or "Naoto is trans". Oh sure, it was very, very, very heavily implied, but never stated outright. Hell, the sexual undertones around Chie's, Yukiko's and Rise's Shadows are never really acknowledged or explored. And (spoilers!) Adachi's killings have sexual undertones that are never brought up again.
But even aside from the whataboutism, tell me this: what would the game really, really GAIN from telling us these things outright? What would we gain from Ryuji saying "You raped Shiho and Ann!" or from Yoshida saying "I'm a democrat!"
(BTW, he's apparently based off of a Prime Minister of Japan, Shigeru Yoshida, who was a Liberal Democrat. Like all Confidants, he's named after an important, rebelliant historical figure to signify his own rebelliant nature)
This game is intended for young teenagers, ages somewhere from 16-18. They would know and understand these themes and what was being implied, just as we have understood the queer themes in Persona 4 when we were at that age.
Sure, it would be better to have an outright confirmation, but it wouldn't really change my opinion or understanding of the games.
As for Haru, I do agree that it was a lot of wasted potential, but I call that the "Naoto syndrome." Because this is by all intents the final character we recruit to the team, it's harder to have that sense of time passing and leisure enough to explore these topics and not feel like it's rushing too fast past them. Besides, the players would usually be more focused on finishing the Confidants that they've already started instead, so the developers have to decide where they want to direct their resources.
Hifumi and Chihaya? I agree they're the worst Confidants, but again: every Persona game has kinda worthless Side Social Links to pad out the Arcana roster. Wish it hadn't, but dem's the breaks. If anything, I'm more pissed off at Ann's Confidant Link, since she's one of the most important characters in the game.
While I'm on this gigantic tangent, let me adress "Phantom Thieves solve everyone's problems and no one grows."
I understand and respect that view. But ya wrong.
What the Confidants are an analogue for, for me, is seeking help through other people. That's another major theme in Persona 5: you can't fix the problems of society on your own. Sometimes, there are problems whose fixes are just beyond your reach. And what you need to do, is find people you can have enough trust in to share your problems. To set up a support network that can help you when, on your own, you can't do anything. I think that's a great message and that's how I saw it when playing the game for the first time.
But, to close it all out there is one final problem that I will have to agree with yoi on.
This game.
Has too.
MANY.
GOD.
DAMN.
WAIFUS!
I won't give you lazy bastards a TL;DR but I'm sorry for meandering
This is a good, well thought out comment that is basically touching on a point I'm planning on discussing later. That said, I do think you're overlooking one key difference: Person 3 and 4 were about psychological and philosophical issues first and foremost. Persona 5 is about cultural and societal issues. One has it's lens focused outward, the others inward, and that changes a lot of priorities imo.
It doesn't matter much if Dojima was, say, an aggressive conservative or whatever cause that's not what his story or the story he was in really cared about. Rather, it cares more about exploring Dojima's trauma from being widowed and how that feeds into his sense of inadequacy as a father so that he can self-actualize, which you do not need to get political to meaningfully explore. That doesn't mean you can't bring a political lens to his story, just that it isn't really the focus of the text itself. You can get a lot out of his story because it's a much more universal experience that, in a lot of ways, transcends any one culture. Same could be said of P3's focus on death with it's characters. Death and self-love are very broad, abstract subjects so it's kinda fair that we talk about them in more broad, abstract ways.
Japanese society, however, is a fairly tangible thing. You can study it, you can see results what it results in, you can influence it by voting, and you can respond to that, and if you're going to make a piece of art about it then you should be prepared to do that. Using Yoshida as an example, as is, his arc doesn't mean a whole lot. Now, assuming, as you said, he's supposed to be representative of a PM there, that does a good bit to express a fair amount. It clearly shows that the creators respect Liberal Democrat politics and do think of them as, on some level, rebellious. That is a step towards them taking a stance on what they think the real issue at hand is and what we can do to address it.
But, like...why? What makes those politics rebellious? What makes those politics better than the other guys? How do they differ from the 'bad' politics? How do we know that's the actual option we should be going with? That's something you can't answer while staying as vague as this, but it's something you really should if you're going to make a 100 hour story about this subject. As is, it's the functional equivalent to spending between 30-50 million dollars to make a billboard that just says 'Vote for Joe Biden' and nothing more.
I'm not asking for this to be blatant or literal either though. Outer Worlds is super exaggerated and hyperbolic, but underneath those layers of artsy, it has a clear and transparent critique of the dehumanizing nature of corporate capitalism. You can approach this stuff in any number of ways, but when your story is grounded in how real people are affect by societal systems, you need to come prepared to talk about those systems and their alternatives, especially given that the implied reason for making the thing in the first place to convey to people what you should believe is a serious problem with how the world works. That is the general point of sociological storytelling after all. Upton Sinclair didn't write The Jungle for casual reading. That, however, is not as much of a serious concern when talking about topics rooted much more in things like the philosophical issues 3 and 4 look at.
They still should have said that Kanji was gay though.
@@CodexEntry Hmm... maybe Persona 5's biggest problem is that it tried to bite off more than it could chew?
It's hard to say if this game wanted to focus more on societal rebellion or on personal rebellion. The main story and that constant "ratings meter" between the days suggests the former, but the way the Confidant arcs are done suggests the latter.
There *is* a difference between "We've been wronged by individuals and demand justice" and "The system allows for injustice and we need to change the system."
Maybe I'm a bit more charitable to the game because it trying to cover such a topic as complete societal upheaval seems impossible if it also wanted to be a JRPG Dating Sim focused on a small cast of characters. Maybe it could've been done, and I sure would love to see ut done well, but I'm not sure if Persona is the right kind of game to do that. Again, more than it can chew.
The okumura boss isnt even fucking hard at all. Even on a first playthrough, AT MOST, IT WILL PROBABLY JUST TAKE YOU 10 MINUTES.
The one that will probably take more is the Royal boss since it’s genuinely pretty fucking difficult, specially on a first try that actually requires strategy or else the robots will respawn infinitely until you beat them in 2 party turns
I do think his palace is way better in royal, still the weakest and worst arc in the game though
The transfer line in persona 5 is a easy puzzle especially if you use you map slow yes
Missed the part where I said it sucks even knowing the solution?
Sure but we'll get to the mouse puzzle with some pancakes and that sucks forced bosses and the mice where you can't fight
@@JetblackJay The cant fight thing is not a problem becuse you can put enemies to sleep with infiltration tools. I love to walz through the room like I own the place while the guards taking a nap. It might be a bit overused but I like that mouse puzzle.
You can put enemies to sleep with inflitraton tools
Why do people keep thinking that Haru is a poor character because all she is, is nice and sweet? I got a different impression. She never complains about any of the things she's going through despite the fact that we're worried about her because she's going through a rough situation (death of father) along with her additional responsibility of having become the head of a international corporation. With all of this baggage being so sudden, I actually found myself shocked to find that Haru was so competent.
People take one look at her exterior and see her as a stereotype. And that's just wrong. The truth is that she's no pushover. Along with her money that's so powerful, I think she is much more of a badass than what people assume she is.
This is not a character who needs to rely on you. This is the kind of character that if someone was worried about her, you would exclaim, "She can handle herself." This is the character that you would rely on.
You say she didn't really need our help, but A) she lacks the emotional strength to just ask the company president for some amount of control over the business she owns and still continues to commits to a marriage with a shitheel ostensibly because she doesn't want to disappoint anyone. She, objectively, needs some kind of outside help. The game just decides to have that help be for a coffee shop instead of a real problem. And B), then what's the point of her arc? Just watching a young girl deal emotional suppress all her recent traumas so she can pretend to be okay? Even if that is the case, that only lowers my opinion of her arc, it makes it meaningless and begs the question of 'why are we wasting our time helping someone who doesn't need it?' She never really helps us, hell, Haru basically vanishes from the main story after her arc, if she's not in your party it becomes very easy to forget she's even there. She is not really that aspirational imho.
@@CodexEntry What did we do to help her?
@@CodexEntry Your counter-argument against me here is not really effective considering that she helped herself.
And what is the argument that you are making at "B"? That we have to help her so that her arc has a point? Is it difficult for you to face the fact that she was able to help herself? Because I don't get it.
You are downplaying a character by saying "a young girl deal emotional suppress all her recent traumas so she can pretend to be okay" (on a side-note, your sentence has some grammatical issues). How do you know that she's "suppressing" or just "pretending to be okay"? These are ridiculous retorts to the things I've said.
And what's with the "She never really helps us"? As if she had a special obligation towards you? This is petty. What are you expecting her to help beyond her role? The point of the Phantom Thieves is to find bad people and to change their hearts so that they will no longer be bad. And as a group, that's what they do.
Honestly, these things you are saying, I liken it to the behavior of mischievous girls from high school: gossip and attempts to ruin another's social image, but no care for seeing things in a way that matters, is substantial, or true. I find this quite absurd, actually.
@@CodexEntry I had to edit my most recent comment, because I'm not trying to come off as a smart aleck. As an example, I change my "Your argument is pretty weak" to "Your counter-argument against me is not effective". Because the former sounds like an attempt to just be snide, as it can be read in that tone; the latter is my intention.
I am sending this reply now in case you read my unedited comment and think I was just coming off as an ass. But I do believe in the most genuine and honest way that your way of seeing this is flawed. And I have edited my comment to represent that.
@@GrubKiller436
'As if she had a special obligation towards you? This is petty.'
Okay, so here's the thing: You realize that she's not real, right? She's a character in a video game, a game with very specific, pointed themes that basically every other character has to. She isn't a human, she is lines on a script, read by an actor, animated by illustrators, and coded as a PC. If she were a real person, yeah, I wouldn't critique her like this, but she's not. She is one small part of a greater work of art. So, again, even if we assume you're right and her 'helping herself' was the point, then it's still a really weak point. What insight does that give us to the themes the game is here to talk about? How does it inform us about who Haru is as a person? etc. Those may not be your metrics for good storytelling, but they are mine, mainly off the basis of what Persona 3 & 4 were able to accomplish. As is though, you could very easily cut everything about Haru from the main story and her absence wouldn't be felt at all. This is why her, in some way, helping us is important. Someone in these arcs has to do some growing and changing, otherwise we're just doing the Yoshida thing of watching someone perfect be perfect. If it's not going to be her growing, it needs to be us, and she needs to do that by giving us something, be that a physical object or just someone to respect and aspire to. Failing to do that is, while not objectively bad, ultimately counter to the clear intent behind the Confidants of having them be more small scale, intimate stories that helps us to better get to know these characters while reinforcing the game's main themes. This fails at that. Again, what do we learn about Haru in her Confidant? Basically nothing. It's a wasted opportunity.
'How do you know that she's "suppressing" or just "pretending to be okay"? '
How else am I supposed to read her actions? She watched her fucking father die after nearly being sold into slavery, and she then spends what is, for us, the rest of her time not talking about that at all and instead talking about coffee and how hard it's *going* to be to ask for the marriage to be dissolved. She doesn't deal with it at all, and that is flat out unrealistic for a story that may not care about scientific realism, but definitely cares deeply about emotional realism. No one, and I mean no one, is so emotionally strong that they can immediately back pocket the trauma of watching their only family who they loved die, and act like it was nothing. Hell, this is basically the core premise of Yusuke's arc. So, she's got two possibilities in front of her that I can see: Either she's repressing the trauma and it just never gets dealt with, or she actually is supposed to be portrayed as totally fine. Whatever the intent, it's kind of bad writing that wastes the potential of what she's supposed to be. In both cases, they don't show us a whole lot more about Haru than we knew going in and fail to continue her already existent plotline in a compelling way. It's a massive downgrade in stakes that leaves the whole thing feeling limp and meaningless.
Anyways, the ways we help Haru:
-Her entire main story arc where we keep her from being sold off
-We help her garden every day after school
-Generalized emotional support for the coffee shop
-Rank 2: She asks, and you give, advice on how she should handle the president
-Rank 5: Helping her decide how to handle the marriage is basically the whole rank
-Rank 7: We make her take a break after she's worked to overexhaustion AND we're the ones who suggest just talking to the President about all these problems. She does not come up with it on her own.
-Rank 9: We sit in on the meeting with the company president because she wants the emotional support while having such an important conversation because she is and always was meant to be one of the meekest, non-confrontational characters on the cast.
-Rank 10: She starts to date us after thanking us for helping her have the confidence to talk to such an important person. She literally says, word for word, 'You were there for me when I needed it. I can help you now. I have the strength to do so.', strongly implying that at least SHE thinks she didn't have that strength before *we* came along which shuts down the idea that she's some stoic zen master capable of dissolving massive traumas pretty thoroughly.
She helped herself in the same way Makoto or Futaba help themselves. Yeah, they're ultimately responsible, and that should be appreciated, but we are objectively responsible on some level for that growth. Otherwise it wouldn't happen in a confidant story, stories about how interacting with the main character affects the lives of other characters and are only canon if you complete them before the end which is why Futaba is still in the care with her fiance when the game's main twist plays out.
*Remembers where in the game we are at
*Sees length of video
"Oh shi-"
So... Any information about part 6?
Or not yet?
Great vídeo tho
Shit I missed this so much
A year? Damn, i thought it was a few months
Well now I feel weird for not having a hard time with the airlock puzzle. I understood it pretty much instantly, but even then it still blows.