I wanted to add this trouble shooting advice from Larry one of my subscribers. In response from a question another subscriber that was running high fuel trims but only at idle. THE FIX WAS TO REPLACE THE O-RING AT THE OIL FILL PIPE TO BLOCK CONNECTION. I would agree with your assessment that you have a vacuum leak at idle. I also would like you to reevaluate the MAF reading once we find the source of the issue. I would think that the MAF would be greater than 8 g/ps at idle warm engine. Unfortunately it is difficult to know exactly where the leak is. What I would suggest is a inspection and diagnosis that goes from least intrusive to most intrusive so we don’t miss something obvious or create a problem that didn’t exist prior to you working on the vehicle. I would like you to look closely at the air intake pipe where the MAF is connected, looking for poor fit or cracked pipe. Carburetor cleaner could help with the search. Also inspect for any cracked/ deteriorated hoses or port plugs on the engine, if bad enough you could possibly here it leaking. Probably would be a good idea to have the engine cover off. You should also check the oil fill pipe for cracks in the rubber connectors and proper fit. Without getting too long winded on this, anything that is going into the intake manifold is suspect and needs looking at. Including but not limited to map sensor o-ring, injector o-rings, egr block of plate on rear of manifold, throttle body gasket and hose connector, and intake manifold gasket. Don’t disregard the intake gaskets could fail in the internal area of the engine as well. If this were the case you could have a abnormally high oil consumption. If you have any questions please feel free to contact me, Regards, Larry
I purchased the scan gauge you recommended and I wanted to thank you for making it so ez to understand. Much appreciate your making my life easier . Thank you 🙏
A week ago I was ignorant to fuel trim data....thanks to you and some additional research, I now am getting a grasp of the dynamics of the data. I live close to Brazels RV (they installed Banks and Ultra Power on my WH) and have spoke to Jon and Adam....thanks for all you do. And Scan Guage should make you an ambassador for their product.
Another great video, I am out west and climb mountains regular, very seldom does my 8.1 go into open loop, when it does its usually full throttle 6% grade, but will go closed loop once I am off the throttle, crest of the hill. Yes altitude does play a factor in readings, for instance I am at an elevation of 5000ft, and can only get MAF reading at WOT to about 210g/s, once I get to the coast around sea level I can get 220g/s That is crazy just the oil dipstick will raise your fuel trims, great job on explaining by introducing a small vacuum leak how it will affect your fuel trims as well. Learned something......even after you plugged the TPS back in, the 8.1 still ran like crap, it was not until you cleared the code, that the engine returned to run normal. Can you imagine replacing a bad TPS with a new one without clearing the code, you would still have the same symptoms therefore confusing things. You will never see another video explaining everything you explained, excellent job. When you disconnected the 2 coils at the end of the vid, The scan gauge 3 actually told you which coils had the issue, coil E and coil G, thinking that the letters represent firing order.
@@ktoutdoor MAF is 3 years old, maybe 3000 miles on it. Even when it was new, I never saw above 210g/s at home, My fuel trims look good, next time I start the RV up Ill take a pic of them at different RPMs, I have noticed now that all the OEM sensors, including the MAFs are now made in China.
Last winter while traveling out I-40 near Winslow Az, I was climbing a grade and I got a code that I had a bad O2 sensor and the engine started to lose power and sounded really rough. I hit the clear code on my Scan Gauge II and everything went back r
I just wanted to tell you that as a former tech I find your channel and advise spot on and very informative. We’ve been toying with the idea of selling our 8.1 powered 2001 Safari Trek, but with your information and the fact that the resell value isn’t that great anymore, I’m looking forward to another 20 years of owning this little jewel. Thanks again and keep your videos rolling. BTW, maybe you could give some cleaning and detailing pointers if you haven’t already. Your unit looks great.
Thank you for the kind words I made a video on how I cleaned our engine ruclips.net/video/wYXpBiGNZVI/видео.html If you have any questions just call or text my cell 606-875-0125 Kevin
Thank you Kevin for your excellent videos. I clicked the link to buy a ScanGuage 3 but link says unavailable. Is there a different gauge you’d recommend?
Two years ago when we bought our 2004 Adventurer 33V/Workhorse 8.1 (52,000 miles) it would intermittently go into limp mode and throw code's P1516, P2108 & U0107, I replaced the Throttle Control Module and never had any issues since. I was always able to reset it using my ScanGauge 2 but it was a nailbiter sitting on the side of the Interstate and not knowing if it will! Last fall I upgraded to the ScanGauge 3 and I like it even better!
You would think so but noooooooooo Workhorse in there wisdom chose not to monitor fuel trims MAF, OPEN or CLOSED LOOP check out this video at the 2 minute mark ruclips.net/video/ZaGG7e7KoGU/видео.html also email me at kc5210@gmail.com and I will send you some interesting documents about this
Kevin, another great video, still chasing a problem on bank 2. I have replaced the knock sensors, both 02 sensors and the MAF Sensor. The New MAF is reading a little over 4 grams per second at idle, yes the air filter is almost new. All parts were genuine ac Delco/Delphi. The 02 for bank 2 is all over the place it will read 2 then jump to, I’ve seen 89 then back to 12, then 0 this in a matter of seconds. Now the LTFT on both banks are about -4 pretty much steady. I think I may have a vacuum leak affecting bank 2 Supposed to be a nice day tomorrow so going to check it out. Oh BTW I have also replaced the exhaust manifold to tailpipe donut 🍩 before I replaced the 02 sensor on bank 2 which was leaking. Thanks again for another great video, I haven’t got the scan gauge 3 yet….but it’s on my radar for sure.
Very interesting, I would love to see warm engine idle data. Long and short term trims along with map one MAF readings. 4g/s is very low for that engine. Don’t disregard a restricted exhaust or catalyst, if the exhaust can’t escape fresh air can’t enter, reducing your MAF reading.
Kevin, after watching this series, I finally ordered mine, using your Amazon link; it arrived today, and I should have gotten this a long time ago. As of this post (8/26/23), the most current software version is 1.22. I do have a question for you, though. When I go to the "Scan" section and go to "Pending" there is a "Check VIN" button that shows up only when the engine is running, and when I press that button, I get 1GTJK33G34F202522, which is for a 2004 GMC Sierra 3500. Considering our Monaco coach was built on a 2005 W24 chassis and that is NOT the VIN, I'm wondering if the upgraded ECU and TCU I bought from Brazel's is feeding the ScanGauge III the incorrect VIN? Great video, btw, very informative.
Very common all that really matters are the calibration IDs that can be copied from one ECU to another. Glad you got you a scangauge 3 don't leave home with out it..lol
Hi Kevin fantastic video again do you have a link for a Mass Air Flow Sensor as I think it is a good idea to keep one in my spare parts just in case Many thanks Steve --- over in England
Yes it does.. but very little out of all my video links I made $42.31 last month lol But I do take that money and buy RV tools to test and review I just got a torque multiplier and a digital torque adapter so we can remove and install our large RV wheels when needed.
When I open the throttle momentarily about half way when idling or when I am accelerating moderately at 55mph the LTFT on bank one jumps to 25. Why? When driving the long term shows more activity than the short trims. Again why?
This engine doesn’t have one. You can see the block off plate on the rear of the manifold where the egr cooled would be. I believe it was omitted due to gvw/ epa requirements of heavy vehicles.
I wanted to add this trouble shooting advice from Larry one of my subscribers.
In response from a question another subscriber that was running high fuel trims but only at idle. THE FIX WAS TO REPLACE THE O-RING AT THE OIL FILL PIPE TO BLOCK CONNECTION.
I would agree with your assessment that you have a vacuum leak at idle. I also would like you to reevaluate the MAF reading once we find the source of the issue. I would think that the MAF would be greater than 8 g/ps at idle warm engine. Unfortunately it is difficult to know exactly where the leak is.
What I would suggest is a inspection and diagnosis that goes from least intrusive to most intrusive so we don’t miss something obvious or create a problem that didn’t exist prior to you working on the vehicle.
I would like you to look closely at the air intake pipe where the MAF is connected, looking for poor fit or cracked pipe. Carburetor cleaner could help with the search. Also inspect for any cracked/ deteriorated hoses or port plugs on the engine, if bad enough you could possibly here it leaking. Probably would be a good idea to have the engine cover off. You should also check the oil fill pipe for cracks in the rubber connectors and proper fit.
Without getting too long winded on this, anything that is going into the intake manifold is suspect and needs looking at. Including but not limited to map sensor o-ring, injector o-rings, egr block of plate on rear of manifold, throttle body gasket and hose connector, and intake manifold gasket. Don’t disregard the intake gaskets could fail in the internal area of the engine as well. If this were the case you could have a abnormally high oil consumption.
If you have any questions please feel free to contact me,
Regards, Larry
I purchased the scan gauge you recommended and I wanted to thank you for making it so ez to understand. Much appreciate your making my life easier . Thank you 🙏
Thank you for the kind words John
A week ago I was ignorant to fuel trim data....thanks to you and some additional research, I now am getting a grasp of the dynamics of the data. I live close to Brazels RV (they installed Banks and Ultra Power on my WH) and have spoke to Jon and Adam....thanks for all you do. And Scan Guage should make you an ambassador for their product.
Thank you I will pass your comment on to them. They make a great product and with updates it will only get better.
Another great video, I am out west and climb mountains regular, very seldom does my 8.1 go into open loop, when it does its usually full throttle 6% grade, but will go closed loop once I am off the throttle, crest of the hill. Yes altitude does play a factor in readings, for instance I am at an elevation of 5000ft, and can only get MAF reading at WOT to about 210g/s, once I get to the coast around sea level I can get 220g/s
That is crazy just the oil dipstick will raise your fuel trims, great job on explaining by introducing a small vacuum leak how it will affect your fuel trims as well.
Learned something......even after you plugged the TPS back in, the 8.1 still ran like crap, it was not until you cleared the code, that the engine returned to run normal. Can you imagine replacing a bad TPS with a new one without clearing the code, you would still have the same symptoms therefore confusing things.
You will never see another video explaining everything you explained, excellent job.
When you disconnected the 2 coils at the end of the vid, The scan gauge 3 actually told you which coils had the issue, coil E and coil G, thinking that the letters represent firing order.
Thanks for the info.. how old is your MAF ?
Good catch about the coils I did not notice that.
@@ktoutdoor MAF is 3 years old, maybe 3000 miles on it. Even when it was new, I never saw above 210g/s at home, My fuel trims look good, next time I start the RV up Ill take a pic of them at different RPMs, I have noticed now that all the OEM sensors, including the MAFs are now made in China.
Thats sad... what do your fuel trims look like?
Last winter while traveling out I-40 near Winslow Az, I was climbing a grade and I got a code that I had a bad O2 sensor and the engine started to lose power and sounded really rough. I hit the clear code on my Scan Gauge II and everything went back r
Thank you so much for the extra tips. I'll be looking for new potential vacuum leaks. Appreciate the info.
-David
Thanks for watching.
I just wanted to tell you that as a former tech I find your channel and advise spot on and very informative. We’ve been toying with the idea of selling our 8.1 powered 2001 Safari Trek, but with your information and the fact that the resell value isn’t that great anymore, I’m looking forward to another 20 years of owning this little jewel. Thanks again and keep your videos rolling.
BTW, maybe you could give some cleaning and detailing pointers if you haven’t already. Your unit looks great.
Thank you for the kind words I made a video on how I cleaned our engine ruclips.net/video/wYXpBiGNZVI/видео.html If you have any questions just call or text my cell 606-875-0125 Kevin
Enjoyed it Kevin. I have the Banks Sys on mine so some numbers will be different but this think is amazing!
Thanks
Yes your trims will be a little higher, your flowing more air.
Awesome Kevin, hopefully now I can figure out the dang recurrent knock sensor bank 1 code.
Call me when you get some fuel trim numbers 606-875-0125 Kevin
Another great video.
Awesome, looking forward to road test.
Great video! So much information! Thanks!
Thanks Paul
Good information, thanks so much!
Kevin, what did you do to get the transmission temperature to work?
It scanned and found it on its own
Baro pressure is measured through the MAP sensor when the key is turned on before the engine starts.
Thanks for sharing
Thank you Kevin for your excellent videos. I clicked the link to buy a ScanGuage 3 but link says unavailable. Is there a different gauge you’d recommend?
Buy direct www.scangauge.com/
Okay thank you. Wanted to give you the benefit if that Amazon link was a benefit for your channel. Love your content, you’ve helped me a lot!
Thanks for watching, stay tuned more to come @@mikerasmussen7367
Two years ago when we bought our 2004 Adventurer 33V/Workhorse 8.1 (52,000 miles) it would intermittently go into limp mode and throw code's P1516, P2108 & U0107, I replaced the Throttle Control Module and never had any issues since. I was always able to reset it using my ScanGauge 2 but it was a nailbiter sitting on the side of the Interstate and not knowing if it will! Last fall I upgraded to the ScanGauge 3 and I like it even better!
At 25 percent positive fuel trim you should get a lean code and check engine light. Did you?
You would think so but noooooooooo Workhorse in there wisdom chose not to monitor fuel trims MAF, OPEN or CLOSED LOOP check out this video at the 2 minute mark ruclips.net/video/ZaGG7e7KoGU/видео.html also email me at kc5210@gmail.com and I will send you some interesting documents about this
Kevin can you do a video of your fuel trim and Maf data while driving 60 mph? Just a quick video at steady speed. Thanks
Yes I hope to be heading to Florida in a week or 2 plan on making video then.
Great information. So Brazells RV has a list of normal values for all these parameters?
I have some cheat sheets from where we talk.
Kevin, another great video, still chasing a problem on bank 2. I have replaced the knock sensors, both 02 sensors and the MAF Sensor. The New MAF is reading a little over 4 grams per second at idle, yes the air filter is almost new. All parts were genuine ac Delco/Delphi.
The 02 for bank 2 is all over the place it will read 2 then jump to, I’ve seen 89 then back to 12, then 0 this in a matter of seconds. Now the LTFT on both banks are about -4 pretty much steady.
I think I may have a vacuum leak affecting bank 2
Supposed to be a nice day tomorrow so going to check it out.
Oh BTW I have also replaced the exhaust manifold to tailpipe donut 🍩 before I replaced the 02 sensor on bank 2 which was leaking.
Thanks again for another great video, I haven’t got the scan gauge 3 yet….but it’s on my radar for sure.
Call me when you can chat 606-875-0125 Kevin
Very interesting, I would love to see warm engine idle data. Long and short term trims along with map one MAF readings. 4g/s is very low for that engine. Don’t disregard a restricted exhaust or catalyst, if the exhaust can’t escape fresh air can’t enter, reducing your MAF reading.
Kevin, after watching this series, I finally ordered mine, using your Amazon link; it arrived today, and I should have gotten this a long time ago. As of this post (8/26/23), the most current software version is 1.22. I do have a question for you, though. When I go to the "Scan" section and go to "Pending" there is a "Check VIN" button that shows up only when the engine is running, and when I press that button, I get 1GTJK33G34F202522, which is for a 2004 GMC Sierra 3500. Considering our Monaco coach was built on a 2005 W24 chassis and that is NOT the VIN, I'm wondering if the upgraded ECU and TCU I bought from Brazel's is feeding the ScanGauge III the incorrect VIN? Great video, btw, very informative.
Very common all that really matters are the calibration IDs that can be copied from one ECU to another. Glad you got you a scangauge 3 don't leave home with out it..lol
Hi Kevin fantastic video again do you have a link for a Mass Air Flow Sensor as I think it is a good idea to keep one in my spare parts just in case Many thanks Steve --- over in England
Is the link for ScanGauge 3 in your description provide you some monetary value on each purchase?
Yes it does.. but very little out of all my video links I made $42.31 last month lol But I do take that money and buy RV tools to test and review I just got a torque multiplier and a digital torque adapter so we can remove and install our large RV wheels when needed.
When I open the throttle momentarily about half way when idling or when I am accelerating moderately at 55mph the LTFT on bank one jumps to 25. Why? When driving the long term shows more activity than the short trims. Again why?
Added note: When I go back to idle or go a steady speed for a second or so the fuel trims become normal.
Text me so I can call you back my cell phone number is 606-875-0125 Kevin
Where's your EGR valve?
This engine doesn’t have one. You can see the block off plate on the rear of the manifold where the egr cooled would be. I believe it was omitted due to gvw/ epa requirements of heavy vehicles.