Fun! The aluminum rail expands and contracts with the heat/cold so leave more of a gap when laying cold track in the winter. In the hot summer you leave less of a gap.
@@StanFerris Called Buckling and it can happen without warning, especially so when a loco (a very heavy one) passes over that section and the track "buckles" like a slithering snake - for as far as the eye can see. Not a problem if traversed slowly enough (or at speed if a little buckle) as the flanges don't have time to jump the rail - they simply push the track back into alignment for that heavy wheel/axle/load to pass, before immediately stepping out of alignment again when the weight is removed. Check this one out, that was seen by an in cab video - in Australia. Rough - but still on the rails ruclips.net/video/_LoXgN1QWZM/видео.html
You can look up values for metal expansion online - but if you just wanna do it the easy way, leave a hair's breadth gap on a really jot summer day. The gaps will get larger towards cooler weather
I have 1200' of 7.5" gauge railroad. You worry about 20' radius turns. I have 14' radius turns! Not only that, I run a 10 wheeler steam engine on it. I did have to make extensive modifications to the undercarriage to make this happen (broader central driver with no flange & extensive modifications to the pilot truck to permit it to swing 4 times farther & adjust axles non-parallel). My track is aluminum ties & rail, held together with 6-32 stainless steel machine screws & nyloc nuts. I made all the custom hardware (joiners, tapered washers so the bolts holding rail to tie have a square surface to bear against, 5 switches, & 2 criss-crosses). This is laid over treated wood ties on the 200' of trestles I have, & over concrete block for the ground track. Track is banked on the turns. I plan to replace the wood with Hahn "ultra" plastic for the trestles. (Buying the plastic stock from Hahn plastics, advertised in Steam Magazine, is a pain because the raw stock is made in Canada & not routinely sold in USA. I had to submit a document to Homeland Security to buy it! most of the plastic wood is too weak for trestles.) A comment about your screw placement holding rail to ties: the screws should be staggered in OPPOSITE directions on the 2 sides of the track. That way, no matter which direction the track tries to skew, there is a set of screws to block the movement. On tight radius turns, you will have trouble with truck frames skewing & the lead outside wheel trying to climb over the rail. I had to disassemble the trucks & braze inserts where the side frames meet the cross-frame (too sloppy!) The frame must be able to twist to equalize the load, but there most be no freedom to "rack" (as viewed from above).
Generally, real railroads place track joints on a tie because over time if not placed right the track will bend out of shape. This depends on how much weight the track will support. Love their stuff, well made.
@@minnesotaeerailroad8471 Been planning a backyard layout for awhile now and I've got a tire recycler lined up that'll make me ties from old tires for about a buck apiece.
M&M Rails Ha! You’re right on!! ...For us, it’s the shipping that will kill us if we go with Accu-Tie. But to be honest, the product is expensive, but worth the price if you’re into it! Or maybe we’re just crazy... About $1.35 per foot for rail and about a dollar per tie, plus the screws etc. This is a very fair question, though, and one that many want to know. For this video/test, I paid $27 for the rail, $1.80 for the joiners, $12.74 for 13 ties, $3.18 for the screws and then the kicker, $58 for shipping 😳 for a grand total of $102.72. So, we’re still shopping. That’s expensive, yeah. 😁
I paid $500 for shipping, but that was everything for my railroad including a switch. Approximately 250 total feet of track, I think all in worked out to around $8-9 per foot of track not including ballast, I could have broken it up into smaller sections but the extra shipping would be too much. So yes, not cheap, but worth it to use the best product
For the track thermal expansion gap, look at the max and min annual temperature in your area then look up the coefficient of thermal expansion for aluminum. In standard units it's about 0.000013 per degree F. So if you have a 10 foot length of track, it will lengthen 0.000013 feet for every degree F of temp rise. You can then calculate how short it will be on the coldest day of the year and how long it will be on the hottest day of the year and set the gap between rails appropriately for the intermediate temp on the day you're installing them.
Ah - you've been told a right porkie there at 1:20 USA railways offset their joints to "try" and alleviate joint bouncing (axle wheels bouncing in unison when going over directly opposite joints) However that in itself results in adverse twisting motions as rolling stock wheels "shift side to side as the frames flex when one wheel dips before another on the same axle. Do that fast enough, or have the joints far enough apart - and you get an unstoppable "rocking" motion - which if it gets out of control - will eventually rock a wagon off the rails - for no other reason than it rocked too violently. New Zealand Railways as do many others world wide, use same position joints, to allow for MUCH FASTER speeds, as the rolling stock simply goes down into and out of joints the same - without causing axle twists to occur in the same bogie, or as wagons rock from side to side - and start oscillating the entire train at certain speeds. Yes - we get problems here too - but that is ONLY in that joints get hammered down at the exact same time each time an axle set passes over them, but good planning of track ballast - rail "top" slightly higher at joints, and stronger rails in general - joint bounce can be all but eliminated. Welded rails are the best - as they have no joints, (except for one every four or five welded normal lengths). All welded rail - simply has no joints at all. period, no axle bounce and definitely no axle twists
So why wouldn't one just center a tie under aligned joints, reducing any drop?? I just visited a 7 1/2" gauge track in Muskogee, Oklahoma. That gentleman has his joints aligned together and says that he has never had a problem with them.
In addition to any other issues having both track joiners at the same spot may cause, it will cause an annoying "wham!" when the axles hit it vice the traditional "clickety-clack".
I also am using 20 foot radius on my railroad, any larger and I wouldn't fit. I was told by the builder that my SW1 will handle it (and could go tighter) I will let you know once I test run it. Something to keep in mind when you are looking for a locomotive. So any 2 axle units should be totally fine.
I have been following your backyard build and have been taking a lot of notes. I have an acre to play with !!! Do you know what the recommended mininum radius TITAN trains requires for their 4-axle and 6-axle locos?
Boy, I’d call them up and ask! I’d hate to give bad info, especially on a 6 axle loco. We can already recommend NOT going 20’ like us 😊 especially if you have the room. I’d be willing to bet that you and Jim at Titan Trains talk about 32’ radius or more if you call him. titantrains.net/
Yup, I believe so. I recommend looking into www.midwestscalerail.com and accu-tierailsystem.com ...But shipping is the hard part because it’s so heavy making it expensive. You might try and find a distributed near you? Good luck!
All hobbies have a cost. It just matters as to how big/fast you want your models and if you're going to model a particular scale/prototype or freelance. That Titan GP-30 looks interesting... However, not so much that I acquire one.
Fun! The aluminum rail expands and contracts with the heat/cold so leave more of a gap when laying cold track in the winter. In the hot summer you leave less of a gap.
Ah, makes sense! Thanks!
@@minnesotaeerailroad8471 At our club (Maricopa Live Steamers) in the desert heat, the rail will actually kink and push out due to the expansion.
@@StanFerris Called Buckling and it can happen without warning, especially so when a loco (a very heavy one) passes over that section and the track "buckles" like a slithering snake - for as far as the eye can see.
Not a problem if traversed slowly enough (or at speed if a little buckle) as the flanges don't have time to jump the rail - they simply push the track back into alignment for that heavy wheel/axle/load to pass, before immediately stepping out of alignment again when the weight is removed.
Check this one out, that was seen by an in cab video - in Australia.
Rough - but still on the rails
ruclips.net/video/_LoXgN1QWZM/видео.html
You can look up values for metal expansion online - but if you just wanna do it the easy way, leave a hair's breadth gap on a really jot summer day. The gaps will get larger towards cooler weather
I have 1200' of 7.5" gauge railroad. You worry about 20' radius turns. I have 14' radius turns! Not only that, I run a 10 wheeler steam engine on it. I did have to make extensive modifications to the undercarriage to make this happen (broader central driver with no flange & extensive modifications to the pilot truck to permit it to swing 4 times farther & adjust axles non-parallel).
My track is aluminum ties & rail, held together with 6-32 stainless steel machine screws & nyloc nuts. I made all the custom hardware (joiners, tapered washers so the bolts holding rail to tie have a square surface to bear against, 5 switches, & 2 criss-crosses). This is laid over treated wood ties on the 200' of trestles I have, & over concrete block for the ground track. Track is banked on the turns. I plan to replace the wood with Hahn "ultra" plastic for the trestles. (Buying the plastic stock from Hahn plastics, advertised in Steam Magazine, is a pain because the raw stock is made in Canada & not routinely sold in USA. I had to submit a document to Homeland Security to buy it! most of the plastic wood is too weak for trestles.)
A comment about your screw placement holding rail to ties: the screws should be staggered in OPPOSITE directions on the 2 sides of the track. That way, no matter which direction the track tries to skew, there is a set of screws to block the movement.
On tight radius turns, you will have trouble with truck frames skewing & the lead outside wheel trying to climb over the rail. I had to disassemble the trucks & braze inserts where the side frames meet the cross-frame (too sloppy!) The frame must be able to twist to equalize the load, but there most be no freedom to "rack" (as viewed from above).
Generally, real railroads place track joints on a tie because over time if not placed right the track will bend out of shape. This depends on how much weight the track will support. Love their stuff, well made.
Thanks for that bit of info!
Far out Man! This is cool. Don't seem like alot of money if its your hobby. Most hobbies are always expensive. I'll be following your progress.
BFU Railroad ...Thanks! And welcome!
@@minnesotaeerailroad8471 Been planning a backyard layout for awhile now and I've got a tire recycler lined up that'll make me ties from old tires for about a buck apiece.
@@bfurailroad1104 ...Nice! Where will you be building? Where are you?
@@minnesotaeerailroad8471 I'm in Kansas. And you?
@@bfurailroad1104 ...St. Paul area in Minnesota.
I love Accu-Tie... Using it for my own railroad in Nevada.
The machining on truck wheels is really nice, track looks great👍
Very neat! I can’t imagine the price tag on that small section. “Dad, when will the circle be completed?” When you’re 16 son.
M&M Rails Ha! You’re right on!! ...For us, it’s the shipping that will kill us if we go with Accu-Tie. But to be honest, the product is expensive, but worth the price if you’re into it! Or maybe we’re just crazy... About $1.35 per foot for rail and about a dollar per tie, plus the screws etc. This is a very fair question, though, and one that many want to know. For this video/test, I paid $27 for the rail, $1.80 for the joiners, $12.74 for 13 ties, $3.18 for the screws and then the kicker, $58 for shipping 😳 for a grand total of $102.72. So, we’re still shopping. That’s expensive, yeah. 😁
Hey! That our music! Cool!
thank you sooo much
that is such a cool project man. maybe one day when wifey and i buy a house.
I paid $500 for shipping, but that was everything for my railroad including a switch. Approximately 250 total feet of track, I think all in worked out to around $8-9 per foot of track not including ballast, I could have broken it up into smaller sections but the extra shipping would be too much. So yes, not cheap, but worth it to use the best product
For the track thermal expansion gap, look at the max and min annual temperature in your area then look up the coefficient of thermal expansion for aluminum. In standard units it's about 0.000013 per degree F. So if you have a 10 foot length of track, it will lengthen 0.000013 feet for every degree F of temp rise. You can then calculate how short it will be on the coldest day of the year and how long it will be on the hottest day of the year and set the gap between rails appropriately for the intermediate temp on the day you're installing them.
Sugarsail1 ...Nice! This is FANTASTIC, in depth info! Much appreciated!!
Ah - you've been told a right porkie there at 1:20
USA railways offset their joints to "try" and alleviate joint bouncing (axle wheels bouncing in unison when going over directly opposite joints)
However that in itself results in adverse twisting motions as rolling stock wheels "shift side to side as the frames flex when one wheel dips before another on the same axle.
Do that fast enough, or have the joints far enough apart - and you get an unstoppable "rocking" motion - which if it gets out of control - will eventually rock a wagon off the rails - for no other reason than it rocked too violently.
New Zealand Railways as do many others world wide, use same position joints, to allow for MUCH FASTER speeds, as the rolling stock simply goes down into and out of joints the same - without causing axle twists to occur in the same bogie, or as wagons rock from side to side - and start oscillating the entire train at certain speeds.
Yes - we get problems here too - but that is ONLY in that joints get hammered down at the exact same time each time an axle set passes over them, but good planning of track ballast - rail "top" slightly higher at joints, and stronger rails in general - joint bounce can be all but eliminated.
Welded rails are the best - as they have no joints, (except for one every four or five welded normal lengths).
All welded rail - simply has no joints at all. period, no axle bounce and definitely no axle twists
So why wouldn't one just center a tie under aligned joints, reducing any drop?? I just visited a 7 1/2" gauge track in Muskogee, Oklahoma. That gentleman has his joints aligned together and says that he has never had a problem with them.
In addition to any other issues having both track joiners at the same spot may cause, it will cause an annoying "wham!" when the axles hit it vice the traditional "clickety-clack".
Nate Hill ...Thanks. Yeah, we want a nice clickety-clack!
Hi, well that’s the beginning. See ya.
I also am using 20 foot radius on my railroad, any larger and I wouldn't fit. I was told by the builder that my SW1 will handle it (and could go tighter) I will let you know once I test run it. Something to keep in mind when you are looking for a locomotive. So any 2 axle units should be totally fine.
I do 30 ties per 10 feet. I put the nuts on the inside of the track but they Clear the flange of the truck. Normally the nuts is on the outside
I have been following your backyard build and have been taking a lot of notes. I have an acre to play with !!! Do you know what the recommended mininum radius TITAN trains requires for their 4-axle and 6-axle locos?
Boy, I’d call them up and ask! I’d hate to give bad info, especially on a 6 axle loco. We can already recommend NOT going 20’ like us 😊 especially if you have the room. I’d be willing to bet that you and Jim at Titan Trains talk about 32’ radius or more if you call him. titantrains.net/
@@minnesotaeerailroad8471 -COOL !! Thanks !!
I like to know if it will ship to canada cuz im canadian
Yup, I believe so. I recommend looking into www.midwestscalerail.com and accu-tierailsystem.com ...But shipping is the hard part because it’s so heavy making it expensive. You might try and find a distributed near you? Good luck!
Where at in Canada??? Why not drive down. They're in Geneva, Ohio which isthat far from the Falls.
Rich man's hobby. Me, I'll be over here going through my box of rocks...
pegbars ...Well, I’m a testament that you don’t have to be rich. But we have had to give up some other things to put money into this.
All hobbies have a cost. It just matters as to how big/fast you want your models and if you're going to model a particular scale/prototype or freelance.
That Titan GP-30 looks interesting... However, not so much that I acquire one.