I like the stagger system because it adds an escalated sense of urgency and importance to not get hit. I also like that it gives an opening for attacks akin to the Pile Bunker, it would never get used if the system wasnt there.
Agreed on stagger, agreed on quickmatch unranked, turnspeed would probably need to be tested but frankly I think the netcode is a bigger culprit to heavies eating lightweights. Doesnt matter how well you kite around them only for to caught out by a KRSV that fired into nothing. If nothing else changed I want more team coop/pvp because its funny and Ive found you can sort of work around some issues as a team
i think gamemodes that have objectives other than pvp could be quite fun, a capture the flag type gamemode on grid 86 with catapults and fodder enemies or something. It feels like theres a lot of untapped potential for modes outside of 3v3 and 1v1. Imagine an infection gamemode or king of the hill, I think theres a framework in ac6 where alternative more arcadey gamemodes could be fun.
Honestly had a lot more fun at lower ranks when it felt everyone was just screwing around or experimenting with builds that fit their play style. But after reaching B Rank, I faced way too many kites that actually discouraged me from playing the game for a bit. Nowadays, I feel compelled to only use a quad minugun "rat catcher" build these days.
Im currently having the same problem, so many kites in ranked and very few actual builds The worst part is if i build twords catching kites, i dont have the fire power for heavies, but if i build for fighting heavies, i can't catch kites i cant even use the weapons that bring me joy i mean im still going to bring them but i hate how little they work but i switch to double zims boom no more issues or much less issues like is melee even worth it still when it can be trivalized by sticking on a fourth gun and back peddling slowly picking away at someone while using long range weapons and if the have more speed they just win? Speed trivalizes a lot in the game as long as nothing hits you. You can't be hurt. Missiles are easily dodged or left trailing behind after a certain amount of speed while in advertantly making thier own weapons more accurate at the same time as your opponent will be building up stagger over time unless they have instant stagger weapons then at that point its just who staggers who first with the one backpedling at a advantage as they set the pace for the match
Perhaps ACS overload could make your movement slow and uncoordinate, not disabling booster but made the AC move like it was drunk. FCS could also take a hit but not completely disable your ability to hit back
This is a cool idea, maybe to expand on it you could have regain your booster usage slower or faster depending on if you're moving or not. For example if you know the enemy has everything on cool down you can sit stationary and get your boosters back faster or move and be mobile still but prolong your booster loss. Could also diversify leg choice. Reverse joint can still jump, Tank legs drive faster than walking, etc.
Mine may be the least popular opinion, but I genuinely enjoyed gen 5's (Verdict Day specifically) multiplayer. PVP mixed with PVE, conquest, and the ability to design an entire UNAC unit to beat actual players.
one thing I'd love to see experimentation with would be repair kit availability, feels like the game was balanced around them. not having them in pvp feels too quick
Just like the 1v1 fight against Rusty and his Steel Haze Ortus in Fires of Raven route. Thought you got him, boom, terminal armor pops on and he repairs. Thus the fight continues.
RIP Primal Armor. It was one of the most balanced game mechanics I've ever witnessed. Now everytime someone sneezes in the general direction of my RJ it freezes and blows up 😂 The lighter parts had a better ratio of PA to AP + Overed Boost would drain your Primal Armor. Meaning ACs had their own unique vulnerabilities but could intelligently choose when to trade blows while remaining mobile. The PA attenuation stat too (damage vs PA Shield). It made people experiment with weapon combos and strategies to setup their damage spike. Edit: An unranked PVP quick match would be a godsend. People would care less about winning and more about playing then
Finally, another person that understands the glory of Primal Armor. It really did promote different weapon combinations and was one of the reasons participating in tournaments was so much fun...until you face dual blades that exploited the netcode...
@@dsaBOSS Dual blades in Gen 4? Oh you mean Mastered Ultra Instinct. 😅 Agreed, PA was amazing. Players lost a massive chunk of build creativity w/o it. If we get a follow up, I hope the individual part tuning system makes a return. Maybe they could incorporate some way to extend your Pulse Armor time or Strength?
@@DGENexMACHINA Ha, they were definitely the precursor to Ultra Instinct. 😂 I miss tuning and they should bring it back into the fold, maybe not as complex as it was in 4th gen, but a nice middle ground for newer players to not feel overwhelmed while still making it familiar enough for veterans to understand.
2 дня назад+10
At the moment I’m S ranked. I play a mid weight Zimm Blade with an Alba core. Defense isn’t great but it looks cool and is actually my single player AC as well. Win rate is about 30%. Sad times but every match is still fun! The second I change to a heavy weight zimm (increase defense) and put a couple of earshots on, my win rate goes up but the matches aren’t really as fun because I know I’m just tanking shots, waiting for that stagger, double ear shot followed by another double zimm shot the AC also looks ugly 🤣 I think the main thing that I’d like to see improved, and I have no idea how this works, is the crazy latency. Sometimes on my screen I’ve dodged a kick by 60m and I still take the hit. Dodging Karasawas and still getting hit. This is pretty annoying 🤣 Still love AC6, easily my favourite game!
My main issie with Stagger in AC6 is that whenever anything is staggered it just floats there. In reality when the system is overloaded and shuts down it would fall like a rock. Think of the Gouf Custom versus the Ez8 when the Gundam got shocked and shut down, it had to get rebooted. During that time it went limp. The same should happen with stagger. Another thing that's odd is when the AC goes into a firing stance there are no thrusters being used to keep it airborne and to counteract recoil.
Paying closer attention to these details, it does take you out of it. Nice comparison to Ez8 vs Gouf, 8th MS Team had the best grounded battles in the series IMO.
It only really works on bosses that have enough HP that the fight doesnt end in 30sec, and frankly that could actually use a tune up aswell, they can have quite long stagger windows
@@felixonline1825Stagger extensions are the big problem. While it makes sense to have some sort of control so someone doesn't instantly jump out of every Laser Slicer, the number of weapons that can be fired one-handed without a firing stance that stunlock is way too high.
@@Schpoonman micro stagger and stagger extensions, yes. Bane of my life I didnt play the older gens but I hear that stagger in those would slow you down slightly, so smart use of gap closing and weapons could get you into melee range. Melees could also stagger on hits so that moving ACs didnt just QB out of range but it would still leave room for counter plays without a combo cutscene (To clarify, in my mind this version of stagger would maybe just jolt your AC a bit without stopping you in place and lose velocity)
@felixonline1825 I haven't played 2nd or 3rd in a very long time, but I remember most weapons having a very small amount of knockback, with maybe a minute flinch in your controls. Quick Boost didn't exist until 4th gen and I didn't play enough of 5th to remember what it had. Taking a direct hit from a grenade launcher or even one of the big cannons or rockets didn't have the stunning effect a microstagger in AC6 has from the likes of kicks (remove them from the game, holy shit) or charged melee attacks. Dark Souls relies on its massively i-framed rolls to get away with its game design, and I still think it sucks. I think it's pretty clear a number of design choices were imported, with the degenerative effects on gameplay pretty clear.
1)Rotate Maps each season 2)Improve Netcode and Matchmaking System 3) Change MMR system to stop JP players from stat padding 4)Add Limit Ping Filter 5)Delete Shields @Fromsoftware #Fromsoftware @BaindaiNamco #BandaiNamco
I like the idea of the stagger system being replaced with a restricted movement. Regarding meta, I sometimes think that FS doesn't know what they're doing when it comes to weapon adjustment. We've seen this with the THERAPISTS and recently the Ducketts. The latter of which was fine pre-1.07. But then was nerfed almost to the ground after a week. It's even stranger that they gave it higher reload than the Zimmermann's 2 second reload. Granted I haven't played many of the other entries of the series as you have. But the meta has been kind of frustrating with hardly any additions to weapons and parts. Along with weird adjustments. Some things make sense, for example, the melee specialization for arms and others don't. Idk, I still love the game dearly and have played it religiously since day 1. This is a good video. Very informative and straight to the point.
@@thor9356 Some of the issues with certain weapons stems from stagger system being overtuned. Therapist probably didnt need a reload speed nerf if electrify didnt micro stagger you all the time. I also really want to use vertical missiles but its a wasted slot in pvp(and pve a lot of times aswell), but FS seems scared that they could be too op for some reason
Thanks, I don't like to waste anyone's time. Also, you reminded me of how inconsistent some of these buffs/nerfs are. Etsujin had a full season to shine as the best weapon in the game before it got nerfed, while Duckett immediately got hit for being one of the few weapons to compete with Zimms...except against kites.
@dsaBOSS Wanted to reply last night but didn't have a chance, lol. Etsujins are still somewhat prevalent with kites and basho box builds. But if we need to adjust weapons to put them on the level to compete with the Zimmermann's, then I think we need to nerf the zimms again. Now I'm not talking a damage or impact nerf, but definitely a longer reload. Upping it from 2 seconds to between 3 and 3.5 seconds. Namely, because by the time you stagger someone with zimms, and boost kick. They're ready to fire off again. In regards to missile boats, I feel that shortening the height ceiling would help. Not to the point where it would make that style of play pointless, but it gives the opponent a chance to close the distance a bit easier.
@@thor9356 Yeah, increasing the reload speed of Zimms would help or decreasing its effective range. Something that prevents it from being the weapon that exploits the stagger system so much and does not make it useless in the process.
I doubt it will “fix” ranked being filled with only meta builds but I think more weapons and pieces that fill more niches with could improve it. I haven’t played any AC game other than 6 but from what I have seen from the older games it would be awesome to “modernize” some of those weapons into Ac6 like a ballistic version of the stun launcher for long range builds without needing to rely on missiles.
Yes, more variety means more options, BUT they also have to be viable enough or they'll simply collect dust like most of the already available weapons in the game.
As someone that has played a fair bit of the coop mod, vanilla PvP and modded PvE, I personally hope that if we ever get an other AC entry, the focus of online play is much more oriented to please casual players, like a PvPvE mode in the style of Titanfall 2's Attrition or coop missions. While I respect people that play PvP competitively, and love to see videos of cool 1vs1 fights, I usually tend to find it pretty unenjoyable due the pretty unreliable netcode and the psychological pressure of seeing your rank slowly go back down every time you lose.
Oh boy did you pick a hot topic. As someone who has also played the PvP since the demo disk I can’t say anything without people screeching “you just want 3rd gen/ACFA/5th gen, ect” I am all in favor of certain builds requiring more thought, effort and yes mechanical skill to play. So I fall into the camp of bring back turn speed, get rid of ACS completely, no more hard lock, and so on. All of these things make the game harder to play yes, but they increase the skill ceiling and reward effort put into deliberate practice in a way that has fallen to the wayside in the series. Also, all the quads in ACFA tournaments were raiden arm monstrosities lol.
That's why they're the best topics to talk about. I remember as soon as RAIDEN arms got buffed, they were everywhere. I'm guilty of using one myself lol.
Ohhh you pressed the hard lock button 😂 . I remember hard lock being labeled a " suggestion" and was defended. Untill double laser tanks became popular. Now folks are mad a tank can just hold forward until and tap buttons like a 6 year old. I refuse to use tanks especially nebula tanks
Win against someone in S rank and gain 2 points but lose to someone in S rank lose 29 points thats needs to be sorted out as well. Player dropouts should not be classed as draws but victories. Mainly, I wish they would just unlock more of the maps for multplayer like the grid 086 maps, both wall sector maps, the old space port with the docked ships, xylem. Things that have obstacles would open up far more stratagies and in my opinion help balance out some of the matches.
100% agreed. One of the things that SHOCKED me when I first hit the top 100 was how little you gain and how much you lose. Absolutely makes no sense and punishes players that genuinely want to climb to the top. 😒
The ELO system should really be changed. there should be a threshold of a minimun 5 points when winning against a very low rank player. It just plain stupid to lose 25-30 points just cause they use a broken build such as a basho core or dual zimm heavyweight It's like youre giving 100% and the opponent just assault boosts or kite away and win. Map rotation should also be changed like youve said. The current selection of maps caters to the lamm kites since there isnt enough overhead cover. High stagger weapons should have low direct damage. ( zimm and etsujins)
Here are some of my perosnal opinions. 1. Pvp map pool should be changed. Almost all of the maps caters to the lammkites and kites 2. Zimms should not have both stagger potential and hi direct damage multiplier. ( Even the 2 secs reload is crazy. ) Average AC is 1800 stability. Just 3 shots and youre done for. Shields are not that efficient anymore since zimm users can alternate firing to iverheat your shield. 3.Basho core should have been hot fix since the update. Top 100 is littered with these bug abusers. Spray and run. And even with ocellus fcs they are a pain to play with 4. ELO system should be revamped. No pint in climbing the rank when you lose to a scrub using a meta build which just assault boosts and spray zimms and lose 30 points. Win gets 2 😂. 5. Stagger time duration should be doubled to heavy weights and less on lightweights. So you can dish out more damge to the chonky bois Matchdroputs in s rank should give 10 pts automatic
My biggest thing is stagger extenders. If I get staggered, then I expect to get hit and take damage, but it shouldn't lead to a 4 stage combo that can infinitely repeat itself. There's also too few maps in ranked. I think it's 4 different ones, I like them, but there's better maps in ac6. Most of the skill expression is map awareness, but the maps don't have enough. Xylem alone would make ranked feel like a whole different pvp
Literally playing pvp right now with meme builds lets see what we got here. Bottom A rank is where I feel the builds are too sweaty for me to try and push further so I just try stuff for laughs
1. IMO FromSoft should balance the Target Lock System / FCS. In previous titles you would trade off defenses for speed in order to remain outside of the other player’s targeting window and remain offscreen, but Target Lock ignores this. There should be FCS penalties for the more heavier / defensive parts in the game, allowing lightweight to outmaneuver the Heavy Defensive builds with devastating weapons. 2. For Lightweight Kites there should be a heavier EN Consumption penalty for certain boosters that are favored within this play style and especially the EN Consumption for Tetrapod Legs while in hover mode. 3. There should be an adjustment or cooldown for Assault Boost kicking for certain leg types, specifically reverse joints that like to abuse the Cone hit registration they offer. These adjustments alone would even out the playing field in terms of build crafting and balancing out the META.
This makes Elden Ring pvp look healthy. I dunno about From making their own banlist, I think it's best that the community decided on an unofficial banlist and just have people acknowledge it via awareness, like how in Elden Ring we have the ER pvp discord official rules that everyone who is somewhat aware would use.
dsaBOSS, I have to add that maybe some additional parts would spice up variety. Having just 1 tank tread, hover tread and "fast" tank tread aka wheelchair compounds this problem. Most of the variety is in the bipedal leg selection, so if we're going by these trends, I want a heavyweight energy defensive type for every leg type. Next having sniping limited to linear cannons is questionable. We suffer from missile rats because there is no dedicated back sniper weapon, and the FASAN doesn't count because the projectile speed is too low
More parts does mean more options. Don't get me started on snipers...I have a couple videos covering that. The one game we don't have long-range weapons and kites/rats dominate. 🥺
the point on build redundancy is a shame, there really isn't a good solution to this because from the test of time, any game with choice, creative players are always outnumbered by "copy what works." the whole 'we live in a society' schtick. i do think if we had more parts this wouldn't be an issue, i think numbers wise ac6 isn't that bad in comparison to older games but the way they are distributed, it certainly feels small, i can't really put my finger on it though. i do think a good portion would like to be creative but don't know where to start so they default to blueprints and any failures will result in blaming the build over particular adjustments. the documentation for this game is all over the place and most will be lucky to find a quarter of it past the basics. and this is pretty important for knowing how to counter play different weapons or what weapons can excel in different situations to avoid defauling to certain weapons only. we can't expect people to adapt and be creative if they don't have answers to pull from in the first place. Then don't get me started on latency. its even an issue in jp playing ac6 and they all live next to each other in comparison to our connection.
That's the thing, AC6 has a decent amount of parts compared to other first time entries. However, it has the least amount of competitive weapons. That's why it seems like there's less than what's actually available. As for latency, that's for pretty much any of their online features and I could probably dedicate an entire video talking about that lol.
I have dumb idea but makes Stagger recover ways faster (like in 1 second if no impact taken, the stagger bar will start reliving) and have a impact falloff which use different stats from ideal and effective range. Closer you are, more impact you get. And the falloff has to be steep too My idea is that it will make high impact weapons like pistol and Zimm less forgiving but this would lead to kites being strong so impact falloff is there to ensure ransetsu and Harris can't stagger you 200M away and Quick recovery means missile can't build oppress you kilometer away even if you dodge almost all the missile, maybe increase missile reload times too even.
There was heat in previous versions as well. Kinda stagger. Also while turn speed was low on tanks, AP was 3 times the AP of avg LW. FCS lock distance dictated more the combat flow for both kites and aggro builds where midrange rifles could also be used. The need for a radar. No incoming shot noise + visual Q. Plasmas had FCS/radar interference. There were more parts.
Bring back cores that have built in missile interceptors, bring back shoulder extensions that have missle flares as well as other utilities such as shields and mines and even specialized boosters. Bring back cores that had exceed orbits, both shell and energy types. Bring back shields especially solid, more heavy shields that can be carried on either arm that has a health bar to it. Bring back duel blades builds. Tone down the damage accumulation concerning stagger so the matches can last longer. One of my most memorable pvp fights was when both I and the opponent ran out of ammo which resulted in using blades to finish the match. Bring back, back unit radars to increase range of enemy detection. Make sniper builds viable with quads being able to plant all four feet into the ground for optimal sniper artillery fire, bipedal has to kneel like the the older gens to make use of sniper artillery. Make taking cover more important for survival in battle so that matches don't feel like brainless dps races. This requires well thought out maps with good sniper positions. Check GBO2 maps for inspiration. Make limbs have a certain amount of health so limbs can be blown off which will encourage players to take cover more. Implement arena maps and battlefield maps; arena maps obviously being smaller with less cover, battlefield maps having more distance with more cover. That way people can choose what kind of AC battles they want. Last but most certainly not least, bring a compilation of all the previous ost if that's possible so we can hear those funky songs again and make tuning your mech the way it was in fourth gen. I'd even like to see stabilizers return. Implement all that's mentioned here Fromsoft, and you'll have a far more happier, more creative fan base than what you have with AC6. Oh my God how can I forget, BRING BACK CO-OP! Now I'm done.
There are plenty of things you could address, but I think the easiest ways to improve things are: -nerf zimms. -buff lots of different arms so half of all builds aren't using basho. -slightly improve the output of low-capacity generators to widen their loadout options. -make shields less effective vs melee. -a timeout is a draw unless the AP difference is at least 1000.
As someone who has played all the original entries in the franchise except for Formula Front, i guess the biggest issues in terms of AC6 PvP are: [ Stagger system ] - something that basicly forced majority of people to come up with the most busted builds in order to abuse said mechanic, while at the same time reducing the skill level required by players in order to be decent in PvP. Also, i'd rather not compare AC4's Primal Armor to the current Stagger system in AC6 since they're quite different mechanics. Having an extra layer of protection that can eventually turn into AoE damage is one thing, while being entirely unable to react while taking massive damage is another; [ Weapon balance ] - there's some weapons that are obviously way better than others, reducing the viability of the overall arsenal that the game offers you, while not providing reliable parts either to counter specific weapons( for example: proper missile decoys ); [ Matchmaking ] - with the current netcode setup, it's just a recipe for disaster. Playing against people that might eventually teleport every few seconds while being damaged by phantom hits is not fun at all, but let's move on; [ Ranked system ] - now this is a total mess. The majority of people that got into top 100 do not play in ranked anymore except for very few of them( at least on PS5 ) because they tend to go into custom lobbies instead just to avoid loosing their precious numbered tag, since at high level you loose way more than what you can gain after being defeated by a lower rank. That system itself creates a pool of low-mid level players that will never manage to get into top 100 simply because they don't have enough chances to get points and keep them. Having a fixed amount of points gain by same/higher/lower rank would have been way better and would have promoted active play in a fair way, instead of making people grind for enough points just to get into top 100, and then never touch ranked again. This comes from someone who's already been in S rank twice and still is by the way, both in single and team pvp. Long story short: they probably made the current game with specific features changes compared to the previous entries in order to make AC6 more accessible for new players, since their focus was mainly the single player experience. Problem is, at the same time they lowered a lot the skill level that was once required in pvp in order to be decent, and the overall balance between weapons was something that was, sadly, not done very well.
i want hard-lock gone: i want *some* amount of mechanical skill to matter in this game. and thank you for pointing out that the meta game has just devolved into rock paper scissors, no one else seems to want to admit it
I always said that the problem with the stagger system was getting staggered altogether. The lore mentions something like ACS being responsible for the minute movements that caused incoming fire to impact at less damaging angles e.g. cause less AP damage. When we go into ACS overload, this system goes down and a portion of our defense is also ignored. Stagger should be removed, only a miniature stun (like getting hit with HMMR) when our ACS is overloaded. Then, your ACS bar should remain red and you should take direct hit damage while it is that way. LWs will go into ACS overload quicker, but they recover in like 2 seconds. Heavies will take longer to overload, but they remain that way for 4-5 seconds. This way, weapon impact is slightly less of a factor, and there won't be anymore stagger extension that only a few competitive weapons (shotguns, zooks) can even exploit. Melee should obviously stun a bit more, but they would also need to adjust cool down times. There definitely needs to be a more obvious difference in ACS overload times between the weight classes, as it seems to be a very little difference between an ultralight and an ultraheavy.
Yeah there are a couple things i think they could tweak. Like reducing air time on mech. Make it more ground based like the older gens. Balance direct hit damage between the weaker and stronger attack power weapons. Weapons getting up there close to the 1000 atk power point dont really need,if any, big bonus damage. Should be only weaker weapons can punish stagger. Also maybe adjusting stagger so lighter impact weapons do the base stagger while heavier impact weapons will throw your mech back on or during stagger to mitigate combo punishes with heavier weapons. Cant say how this will help in practice but feels like they would
i can't see any way removing or even reducing the stagger mechanic does anything except narrow the meta in favor of kites even further. what am i missing about this idea??
It's really simple and I mentioned this in the video, but being able to respond allows for a counter attack instead of sitting there helplessly. Kites are dominant partly because when they do stagger you, they can backpedal even farther while the staggered player has to sit there, get chipped at, AND make up for the loss in distance.
Something that I think really needs improvement is netcode. On multiple occasions, I've dodged a pulse laser or oscillator hit by 50+ meters and it still registers as a hit and I get staggered and die. Also, I would absolutely adjust the stagger mechanic. Probably just make it a state where you only take the increased damage and maybe reduced speed. Being stopped entirely is too harsh.
Honestly one solution I'm not sure if mentioned could be a budget system in pvp. Give the player a certain amount of coam to use when building a mech. This could be interesting as it would allow different tiers in pvp as well as make it easier to balance as devs could kust increase or decrease the price of parts if they feel stat nerfs/buffs inappropriate. I would also like effective range to be removed as having fcs and weapons that can hit longer ranges would help with catching rats and have a meta less centered around shotguns and lasers
Never been a fan of the idea of limiting a player's access to building an AC, but I can see its merits. I do agree about range in this game, damage drop off from weapons is the main contributor to rats and kites being overused.
Imo if stagger mechanic can be fixed by basically just the game turning off boosters (like youre forced to WALK) and shields instead of an outright stun, it would make it so you cant just fly up and deny melee punish while also making sure you can still somewhat retaliate when someone w melee comes in, it also would make some missile types (the verical normal missile thats absoluty dogshit) to be a punish tool It also lets leg jump speed be waaaaaay more impactful, and to balance around RJ being able to leap far make it have extended disabled booster duration as they get one free out of jail card off punishes
I feel you, I get S rank since ranked comes out, also 2 seasons I was around 43 and 12 in the leader board (with my own build I don't need a meta #### for win) and what I see in 1 year are desperate for win,people that are a copy of a copy a copy ecc. when needed for win is put on top instead fun, real competition does not exist anymore..
I say buff every weapon, reduce ammo, lightweights goal is outlast ammo supply before moving in for the kill. Add new weapons such as sniper rifles and traps that lightweights can use to widdle health down while retreating.
you know what i learn from you, you can have all the fun creativity and expression but you have to be ready to rank up too...thats the sad part know you can make the diference and also know what you need to do, all the soultion you name it are grate anything will be a good call to make the pvp more fun but i see too the pvp in any FROM game is like...a second thought something that is just there...i hope some change come for AC6 is a good game but i think is gonna be a the end (I HOPE NOT) in the mod comunity hands...i hope the best for every raven out there and im ready with any of my ACs.
Many parts needs different characteristics in PvE and PvP, because in PvE some weapon have advantage in ammo, but in PvP ammo issue is disappear and this weapon just becomes worst wariations of other, like Xuan-ge is just worst wersion of majestic and advantage is just a reload time, but with less damage and bigger EN+weight cost what's make majestic more usable in most of situations
I feel like I'm taking forever to fall in this game! I miss being able to cut thrusters and fall like a stone, only to pump'um just before landing to avoid staggering.
Hard Lock and Assault Boost are what really fucked movement all up. Remeber when Buerzel was uncatchable at launch? Why do we have a mechanic that automatically closes distance with two button presses? Why does it massively buff both ACS offense and defence? Why can it ignore QB weight penalties? It's like someone played DBFZ and said "Super Dash is the best mechanic I've ever seen, but it needs a few buffs."
@@Schpoonman From needs to add an overheat mechanic to Assault Boost or allow us to Assault boost backwards like in AC5. That game did a lot rightvin terms of balance. I had some greivances with Verdict day but compared to AC 6 ooff. In AC 6 You can ignore half the mechanics and just spam Assault boost with dual zimms and hit s rank😂.
Well, for starters, I'd balance for pvp first campaign second, so i have a solid foundation to work with when i add co-op I would reduce the damage of energy weapons first. And increase reload on explosive weapons. And reduce the number of aoe weapons as thier are just too many that or make it so they arnt spammable as much (such as making so it actually effects everyone that way thier is a downside to point blank shooting) id also reduce the dmg of stagger from 3x down to like 1.5 or 1/2 extra dmg and increase staggered time for all weights as ppl come out of stagger to quickly at times (sometimes you cant land a punish due to them recovering to quick) id increase AP for all bipeds along with stability so that heavy bipeds are closer to tank stability (add arm stability) I'd fix stun guns by making them deal only stagger build up with little dmg (when you prock the stun itll give a big boost to the stagger bar instead of massive dmg) I would have parts actually make sense with heavies having high recoil control and high melee but low fire arm specilization with lighter arms focusing on firearm specilization Id rework how missiles work alltogether they are so inconsistent they suck when AB but are way to accurate when back peddling, Id let the chainsaw and hmmr charge while ab This would only be the start of the balancing id do
Surprised you didn't touch on hard lock. According to some, it's an insult to gamers and everywhere and completely destroys any competitive integrity the game could possess. Anyway, I like that you offer a balanced take of what has worked before with what is currently working. It's often boring when games don't evolve bewtween entries.
The only reason I didn't go over hard lock is because it's something that also heavily impacts single player. Outside of the stagger system, everything else I covered revolves around pvp. As someone who enjoyed the challenge of keeping your targets within your FCS lock box, I don't see it working with today's mechanics.
I don‘t think the way the balance is right now, the game can recover. There are obviously some favored weapons, that deal far more impact per second than any counterpart. And as we all know, it‘s either two stagger gg or 2 minute gg. Btw I love the build in the background quick swapping wlt and rebula. That would actually be fun to face.
Kites killed the motivation for me, honestly. If they capped the max movement speed to 350, I think that would fix a lot. No more watching 370 speeders just casually gliding sideways as missiles all miss.
The problem is this game is very flawed on so many levels. For example Stagger is definitely a problem, but it's also because of its terrible enablers, Hardlock + assault boost. It is less of a problem IF you have a shield, but not every build can afford one because its not an inner part. I personally wouldn't mind stagger but the state of these mechanics show just how much pvp was an after thought, because they heavily ignore any player interaction. The gap between the meta builds and non meta is massive but making more parts more "viable" could also mean Some parts and weapons would essentially be skins because so many parts and weapons do the exact same things. I think Would be interesting if some parts had unique properties or if some weapons actually did 0 impact damage. I also think the absence of a proper tuning system affects the lack of variety in the meta.
The death of turnrates is nonsense. What you want is a more complex relationship with turn-rate, associated with the preferred domain of that leg-type so their bonuses distribute differently. Without turn-rates, the positioning game is dead and it boils down to ranging and DPS. What's likewise also needed is for arms to have different firing arcs, so the right and left arm can fire further out angle from the left or the right with that angle changing depending on the stability offered by the leg and then to have an advantage which comes with being aligned with the target in terms of recoil management, or stabilization. The robot's body needs to be part of the fight, not just an animation stack which gets cycled. Mecha combat is supposed to be some form of vehicular combat, even if its very fast and highly automated because that's where the balancing emerges: your ability to select a build, your ability to make decisions and your ability to drive the robot. What the game needs is a scoring system where the most commonly found builds and parts which win matches get a lower number attached to them and those which are used less win more points -- along with a second score which says how many of those points came from meta builds (eg, how dirty the number is). You do this and you let a matchmaking system exist associated with this and you're going to see very good things happen where people try cracked builds.
I had a dude crash out on me on Xbox ranked pvp because I used a new non-meta build that used one Zimmerman and he said that it was fault of players like me that nobody played ac6 anymore 😂 So I told him the old From motto: GIT GUD kid. (He was also using a pretty meta kite build...).
I liked a few of your suggestions, but there's a lot of really flawed design baked way too deeply into AC6. Beyond anything else, before I get into EN mangement or hard lock or kinetic shotguns stunlocking staggered enemies despite no stancing on the shooter's part, the absolutely miserable netcode needs overhauling. Easy Anti-Cheat is a joke. It has not stopped cheaters on PC but it has negatively impacted game performance, and it's done so in such a way to leave bad actors free to manipulate game conditions to win games they should not. I know EAC is a PC-only problem, but it exacerbates issues inherent in AC6's design that still plague Xbox and Playstation.
The lack of communication is unfortunate. If you host a lobby with banned parts, you have to be watching the host's stream or be invited to the hosts stream with a password and a list of rules and banned parts. This wouldn't be necessary if there was simple communication. Sure, it would be mostly salt, but it is indispensable as a utility to talk to players. I also think an option to "eject" and forfeit a match should be included, so that you can expedite the match to the results screen and report a cheater rather than wait for a match to end.
IMO, FROM's PvP is best when it's not just 1v1 players. The Soul's community has a very active PvP community (even more so than AC) but they tend to avoid stuff like Arenas and do more Invasions. FROM missed a possibly large opportunity to introduce the Invasion mechanic which would have made doing missions more enticing and players having access to co-op would have also been a nice boon for the AC community. As much as I hate AC5, I will admit that at least FROM tried something different with the base systems (though it was done very poorly). Another missed opportunity for the competitive side would have been time trials for missions - speedrunning in games is very common and having a way for players to compete with each other in different ways would have been another way of giving missions more longevity as players try to outpace each other for first place in missions. Another problem I have that's more related to the parts is having a bunch of parts (mainly weapons) that feel like copy/pastas of each other in their respective categories. Adjusting stats with small differences doesn't make two parts stand out that much in practice, and players will normally default to the better of the two. Name a weapon type, and chances are this phenomena will be shown. I'm hoping that FROM experimenting with Elden Ring will mean that they will do the same with AC.
I'm honestly surprised there isn't some sort of invasion mechanic and I like the idea of time trials. Add some unique rewards and it would be a nice addition.
I feel the meta having at least 3 currently viable archetypes is actually already pretty good - especially since they still have slight variations in the builds themselves. Yes, it would always be better to have more viable options, but it's not like 'only zimmerman meta' and trying to make meta 'more varied' is swimming against the current. That said, PvP could still definitely become more fun! I feel a lot for some form of 'stagger is not a complete stunlock', or some other way that makes 1v1-damage potential less relevant (the bornemissza basically has such a large health pool that they create their own reality where 1-hit combos don't exist). Tangent alert: The 'meta' is by definition always trying to find 'the best build for this purpose'. Over time this converges into one (or hopefully several) builds that is 'the best' in a given context (weapon balance, game rules, average player skill level*, average opponent build archetype). Once the context is changed (balance patch, new mechanics, rank up/down, counter-builds appear), this process restarts - but it still converges to a single point. Add more different game modes, and all you're doing is spreading the (kinda small) player count over multiple buckets of 'meta convergence' (3v3 is dead), as well as making it hard to keep everything balanced across all modes. I think we can only really prevent this by changing the context more often, before the meta gets stale. But that is pretty hard to automate: like you said, if you restrict parts, most people would simply not play. It's also hard to do this periodically since the time to convergence varies - if something becomes super powerful suddenly, you get the post-patch ducketts situation where suddenly everything is using the new weapon and they get hotfix-nerfed. \* Average skill level I include here too, because parts have different skill floors/ceilings. A weapon like the oscillator is far more deadly if the opponent can't dodge, or when you can do the flick trick. The meta generally focuses on the highest levels of skill mastery, but a weapon can be super problematic if it takes little skill to make effective, and much more skill to defend against (shield reaction and anticipation), even if that doesn't technically make it 'meta'.
Fair enough, but the issue with a small umbrella of meta builds means only slight variations due to a limited amount of weapons that have similar performance. That doesn't lead to a healthy metagame in the long-term. Also, the main reason why 3 vs 3 is the way it is isn't so much due to spreading the player base thin, rather it's the way it was implemented. Not being able to group with friends or other players and rank restrictions are the main culprits to the mode's downfall.
I suggest we MIGHT focus on Things all we can agree to have for the Story Mode, like Co-op Mode (local and online), more Parts, weapons and From banning Kites.
Shields should have a longer deployment time (0.2 seconds ish) and melee weapons need a quality of life improvement across the board. (Damage is in a good spot)
I think the game would be a lot more enjoyable without Stun extension. I think regardless of most opinions being able to stun lock and 100% to 0% someone with a long combo turning it into a cutscene execution is terrible. Playing against those builds is unfun and obnoxious knowing if they get a single stagger it’s game over regardless of AP. (I’m talking fist, shotgun, kick and then melee execution of a single stagger.)
Yep a stun from dual zimms equals 60% or more of life is gone. If they took away that shotgun stagger extension Id be able to out play the build but as it is now you have to have a huge skill gap over the zimm user to beat them with a non meta build. I get close then they get a stagger 😂 . It is dumb. Outside that the game is very fun to play. I just get tired seeing bugged basho builds, lil zimmy builds, and Lammekites. Outside those archetypes the game mechanics can shine.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
I like the stagger system because it adds an escalated sense of urgency and importance to not get hit. I also like that it gives an opening for attacks akin to the Pile Bunker, it would never get used if the system wasnt there.
I feel the same way and why I don't think removing it outright is the solution. Some refinements can really make a difference.
Agreed on stagger, agreed on quickmatch unranked, turnspeed would probably need to be tested but frankly I think the netcode is a bigger culprit to heavies eating lightweights. Doesnt matter how well you kite around them only for to caught out by a KRSV that fired into nothing.
If nothing else changed I want more team coop/pvp because its funny and Ive found you can sort of work around some issues as a team
And when your connection is good, heavy just can't do anything against the kite, which is even worse.
i think gamemodes that have objectives other than pvp could be quite fun, a capture the flag type gamemode on grid 86 with catapults and fodder enemies or something. It feels like theres a lot of untapped potential for modes outside of 3v3 and 1v1. Imagine an infection gamemode or king of the hill, I think theres a framework in ac6 where alternative more arcadey gamemodes could be fun.
Agreed, the games always had an objective based single player and can certainly be translated into multiplayer.
I’ve been wanting either a control mode or even a race mode like igpx or something.
Honestly had a lot more fun at lower ranks when it felt everyone was just screwing around or experimenting with builds that fit their play style. But after reaching B Rank, I faced way too many kites that actually discouraged me from playing the game for a bit. Nowadays, I feel compelled to only use a quad minugun "rat catcher" build these days.
A rat catcher in the making, my man! ✋
Im currently having the same problem, so many kites in ranked and very few actual builds
The worst part is if i build twords catching kites, i dont have the fire power for heavies, but if i build for fighting heavies, i can't catch kites i cant even use the weapons that bring me joy i mean im still going to bring them but i hate how little they work but i switch to double zims boom no more issues or much less issues like is melee even worth it still when it can be trivalized by sticking on a fourth gun and back peddling slowly picking away at someone while using long range weapons and if the have more speed they just win? Speed trivalizes a lot in the game as long as nothing hits you. You can't be hurt. Missiles are easily dodged or left trailing behind after a certain amount of speed while in advertantly making thier own weapons more accurate at the same time as your opponent will be building up stagger over time unless they have instant stagger weapons then at that point its just who staggers who first with the one backpedling at a advantage as they set the pace for the match
I've had the idea of the stagger mechanic only disabling boosters, making you walk like in pre 4th gen, you'd be slower but not stationary.
Peak
This!!!!
Perhaps ACS overload could make your movement slow and uncoordinate, not disabling booster but made the AC move like it was drunk. FCS could also take a hit but not completely disable your ability to hit back
Would be nice to see ACs walking again. Since AC4, it's a big deal just to have their feet touch the ground. 😅
This is a cool idea, maybe to expand on it you could have regain your booster usage slower or faster depending on if you're moving or not. For example if you know the enemy has everything on cool down you can sit stationary and get your boosters back faster or move and be mobile still but prolong your booster loss. Could also diversify leg choice. Reverse joint can still jump, Tank legs drive faster than walking, etc.
Mine may be the least popular opinion, but I genuinely enjoyed gen 5's (Verdict Day specifically) multiplayer. PVP mixed with PVE, conquest, and the ability to design an entire UNAC unit to beat actual players.
That would be fun as hell as a coop mode, especially 3v3
My favorite thing about ACV/VD was the multiplayer.
ACV/VD is immaculate
one thing I'd love to see experimentation with would be repair kit availability, feels like the game was balanced around them. not having them in pvp feels too quick
That would make things interesting and probably prolong matches.
Just like the 1v1 fight against Rusty and his Steel Haze Ortus in Fires of Raven route. Thought you got him, boom, terminal armor pops on and he repairs. Thus the fight continues.
RIP Primal Armor. It was one of the most balanced game mechanics I've ever witnessed. Now everytime someone sneezes in the general direction of my RJ it freezes and blows up 😂
The lighter parts had a better ratio of PA to AP + Overed Boost would drain your Primal Armor. Meaning ACs had their own unique vulnerabilities but could intelligently choose when to trade blows while remaining mobile. The PA attenuation stat too (damage vs PA Shield). It made people experiment with weapon combos and strategies to setup their damage spike.
Edit: An unranked PVP quick match would be a godsend. People would care less about winning and more about playing then
Finally, another person that understands the glory of Primal Armor. It really did promote different weapon combinations and was one of the reasons participating in tournaments was so much fun...until you face dual blades that exploited the netcode...
@@dsaBOSS Dual blades in Gen 4? Oh you mean Mastered Ultra Instinct. 😅
Agreed, PA was amazing. Players lost a massive chunk of build creativity w/o it. If we get a follow up, I hope the individual part tuning system makes a return. Maybe they could incorporate some way to extend your Pulse Armor time or Strength?
@@DGENexMACHINA Ha, they were definitely the precursor to Ultra Instinct. 😂
I miss tuning and they should bring it back into the fold, maybe not as complex as it was in 4th gen, but a nice middle ground for newer players to not feel overwhelmed while still making it familiar enough for veterans to understand.
At the moment I’m S ranked. I play a mid weight Zimm Blade with an Alba core. Defense isn’t great but it looks cool and is actually my single player AC as well. Win rate is about 30%. Sad times but every match is still fun!
The second I change to a heavy weight zimm (increase defense) and put a couple of earshots on, my win rate goes up but the matches aren’t really as fun because I know I’m just tanking shots, waiting for that stagger, double ear shot followed by another double zimm shot the AC also looks ugly 🤣
I think the main thing that I’d like to see improved, and I have no idea how this works, is the crazy latency. Sometimes on my screen I’ve dodged a kick by 60m and I still take the hit. Dodging Karasawas and still getting hit. This is pretty annoying 🤣
Still love AC6, easily my favourite game!
Despite its flaws I do love AC6 and yes...the game's netcode is a different story lol.
My main issie with Stagger in AC6 is that whenever anything is staggered it just floats there. In reality when the system is overloaded and shuts down it would fall like a rock. Think of the Gouf Custom versus the Ez8 when the Gundam got shocked and shut down, it had to get rebooted. During that time it went limp. The same should happen with stagger.
Another thing that's odd is when the AC goes into a firing stance there are no thrusters being used to keep it airborne and to counteract recoil.
Paying closer attention to these details, it does take you out of it. Nice comparison to Ez8 vs Gouf, 8th MS Team had the best grounded battles in the series IMO.
Yes please! Anything to get rid of these “cutscene” combos
It only really works on bosses that have enough HP that the fight doesnt end in 30sec, and frankly that could actually use a tune up aswell, they can have quite long stagger windows
@@felixonline1825Stagger extensions are the big problem. While it makes sense to have some sort of control so someone doesn't instantly jump out of every Laser Slicer, the number of weapons that can be fired one-handed without a firing stance that stunlock is way too high.
@@Schpoonman micro stagger and stagger extensions, yes. Bane of my life
I didnt play the older gens but I hear that stagger in those would slow you down slightly, so smart use of gap closing and weapons could get you into melee range. Melees could also stagger on hits so that moving ACs didnt just QB out of range but it would still leave room for counter plays without a combo cutscene
(To clarify, in my mind this version of stagger would maybe just jolt your AC a bit without stopping you in place and lose velocity)
@felixonline1825 I haven't played 2nd or 3rd in a very long time, but I remember most weapons having a very small amount of knockback, with maybe a minute flinch in your controls. Quick Boost didn't exist until 4th gen and I didn't play enough of 5th to remember what it had. Taking a direct hit from a grenade launcher or even one of the big cannons or rockets didn't have the stunning effect a microstagger in AC6 has from the likes of kicks (remove them from the game, holy shit) or charged melee attacks.
Dark Souls relies on its massively i-framed rolls to get away with its game design, and I still think it sucks. I think it's pretty clear a number of design choices were imported, with the degenerative effects on gameplay pretty clear.
1)Rotate Maps each season
2)Improve Netcode and Matchmaking System
3) Change MMR system to stop JP players from stat padding
4)Add Limit Ping Filter
5)Delete Shields
@Fromsoftware #Fromsoftware
@BaindaiNamco #BandaiNamco
I like the idea of the stagger system being replaced with a restricted movement. Regarding meta, I sometimes think that FS doesn't know what they're doing when it comes to weapon adjustment. We've seen this with the THERAPISTS and recently the Ducketts. The latter of which was fine pre-1.07. But then was nerfed almost to the ground after a week. It's even stranger that they gave it higher reload than the Zimmermann's 2 second reload. Granted I haven't played many of the other entries of the series as you have. But the meta has been kind of frustrating with hardly any additions to weapons and parts. Along with weird adjustments. Some things make sense, for example, the melee specialization for arms and others don't. Idk, I still love the game dearly and have played it religiously since day 1.
This is a good video. Very informative and straight to the point.
@@thor9356 Some of the issues with certain weapons stems from stagger system being overtuned. Therapist probably didnt need a reload speed nerf if electrify didnt micro stagger you all the time. I also really want to use vertical missiles but its a wasted slot in pvp(and pve a lot of times aswell), but FS seems scared that they could be too op for some reason
@felixonline1825 omg yes! I really wish vertical missiles were actually useful and it's a shame too because plasma missiles because of their aoe
Thanks, I don't like to waste anyone's time. Also, you reminded me of how inconsistent some of these buffs/nerfs are. Etsujin had a full season to shine as the best weapon in the game before it got nerfed, while Duckett immediately got hit for being one of the few weapons to compete with Zimms...except against kites.
@dsaBOSS Wanted to reply last night but didn't have a chance, lol. Etsujins are still somewhat prevalent with kites and basho box builds. But if we need to adjust weapons to put them on the level to compete with the Zimmermann's, then I think we need to nerf the zimms again. Now I'm not talking a damage or impact nerf, but definitely a longer reload. Upping it from 2 seconds to between 3 and 3.5 seconds. Namely, because by the time you stagger someone with zimms, and boost kick. They're ready to fire off again. In regards to missile boats, I feel that shortening the height ceiling would help. Not to the point where it would make that style of play pointless, but it gives the opponent a chance to close the distance a bit easier.
@@thor9356 Yeah, increasing the reload speed of Zimms would help or decreasing its effective range. Something that prevents it from being the weapon that exploits the stagger system so much and does not make it useless in the process.
I doubt it will “fix” ranked being filled with only meta builds but I think more weapons and pieces that fill more niches with could improve it.
I haven’t played any AC game other than 6 but from what I have seen from the older games it would be awesome to “modernize” some of those weapons into Ac6 like a ballistic version of the stun launcher for long range builds without needing to rely on missiles.
Yes, more variety means more options, BUT they also have to be viable enough or they'll simply collect dust like most of the already available weapons in the game.
As someone that has played a fair bit of the coop mod, vanilla PvP and modded PvE, I personally hope that if we ever get an other AC entry, the focus of online play is much more oriented to please casual players, like a PvPvE mode in the style of Titanfall 2's Attrition or coop missions. While I respect people that play PvP competitively, and love to see videos of cool 1vs1 fights, I usually tend to find it pretty unenjoyable due the pretty unreliable netcode and the psychological pressure of seeing your rank slowly go back down every time you lose.
Oh boy did you pick a hot topic.
As someone who has also played the PvP since the demo disk I can’t say anything without people screeching “you just want 3rd gen/ACFA/5th gen, ect”
I am all in favor of certain builds requiring more thought, effort and yes mechanical skill to play. So I fall into the camp of bring back turn speed, get rid of ACS completely, no more hard lock, and so on. All of these things make the game harder to play yes, but they increase the skill ceiling and reward effort put into deliberate practice in a way that has fallen to the wayside in the series.
Also, all the quads in ACFA tournaments were raiden arm monstrosities lol.
Id like to keep hardlock but the penalty needs to be greater on your tracking
That's why they're the best topics to talk about. I remember as soon as RAIDEN arms got buffed, they were everywhere. I'm guilty of using one myself lol.
Ohhh you pressed the hard lock button 😂 . I remember hard lock being labeled a " suggestion" and was defended. Untill double laser tanks became popular. Now folks are mad a tank can just hold forward until and tap buttons like a 6 year old. I refuse to use tanks especially nebula tanks
Win against someone in S rank and gain 2 points but lose to someone in S rank lose 29 points thats needs to be sorted out as well.
Player dropouts should not be classed as draws but victories.
Mainly, I wish they would just unlock more of the maps for multplayer like the grid 086 maps, both wall sector maps, the old space port with the docked ships, xylem. Things that have obstacles would open up far more stratagies and in my opinion help balance out some of the matches.
100% agreed. One of the things that SHOCKED me when I first hit the top 100 was how little you gain and how much you lose. Absolutely makes no sense and punishes players that genuinely want to climb to the top. 😒
The ELO system should really be changed. there should be a threshold of a minimun 5 points when winning against a very low rank player. It just plain stupid to lose 25-30 points just cause they use a broken build such as a basho core or dual zimm heavyweight
It's like youre giving 100% and the opponent just assault boosts or kite away and win.
Map rotation should also be changed like youve said. The current selection of maps caters to the lamm kites since there isnt enough overhead cover.
High stagger weapons should have low direct damage. ( zimm and etsujins)
Here are some of my perosnal opinions.
1. Pvp map pool should be changed. Almost all of the maps caters to the lammkites and kites
2. Zimms should not have both stagger potential and hi direct damage multiplier. ( Even the 2 secs reload is crazy. ) Average AC is 1800 stability. Just 3 shots and youre done for. Shields are not that efficient anymore since zimm users can alternate firing to iverheat your shield.
3.Basho core should have been hot fix since the update. Top 100 is littered with these bug abusers. Spray and run. And even with ocellus fcs they are a pain to play with
4. ELO system should be revamped. No pint in climbing the rank when you lose to a scrub using a meta build which just assault boosts and spray zimms and lose 30 points. Win gets 2 😂.
5. Stagger time duration should be doubled to heavy weights and less on lightweights. So you can dish out more damge to the chonky bois
Matchdroputs in s rank should give 10 pts automatic
I've been advocating for a map rotation since forever, let's hope they finally do something about it!
Lets hope they shuffle things up in the upcoming update. Its a rank reset but who know what they have in store
The PlayStation underground disk. Man. You just took me back 🐦⬛
I still have mine, good times. 💽
@ gen 1 pilots stand up, if you can 🤣
My biggest thing is stagger extenders. If I get staggered, then I expect to get hit and take damage, but it shouldn't lead to a 4 stage combo that can infinitely repeat itself.
There's also too few maps in ranked. I think it's 4 different ones, I like them, but there's better maps in ac6. Most of the skill expression is map awareness, but the maps don't have enough. Xylem alone would make ranked feel like a whole different pvp
Literally playing pvp right now with meme builds lets see what we got here. Bottom A rank is where I feel the builds are too sweaty for me to try and push further so I just try stuff for laughs
In the same boat, tbh...
1. IMO FromSoft should balance the Target Lock System / FCS. In previous titles you would trade off defenses for speed in order to remain outside of the other player’s targeting window and remain offscreen, but Target Lock ignores this. There should be FCS penalties for the more heavier / defensive parts in the game, allowing lightweight to outmaneuver the Heavy Defensive builds with devastating weapons.
2. For Lightweight Kites there should be a heavier EN Consumption penalty for certain boosters that are favored within this play style and especially the EN Consumption for Tetrapod Legs while in hover mode.
3. There should be an adjustment or cooldown for Assault Boost kicking for certain leg types, specifically reverse joints that like to abuse the Cone hit registration they offer.
These adjustments alone would even out the playing field in terms of build crafting and balancing out the META.
This makes Elden Ring pvp look healthy. I dunno about From making their own banlist, I think it's best that the community decided on an unofficial banlist and just have people acknowledge it via awareness, like how in Elden Ring we have the ER pvp discord official rules that everyone who is somewhat aware would use.
dsaBOSS, I have to add that maybe some additional parts would spice up variety. Having just 1 tank tread, hover tread and "fast" tank tread aka wheelchair compounds this problem. Most of the variety is in the bipedal leg selection, so if we're going by these trends, I want a heavyweight energy defensive type for every leg type. Next having sniping limited to linear cannons is questionable. We suffer from missile rats because there is no dedicated back sniper weapon, and the FASAN doesn't count because the projectile speed is too low
More parts does mean more options. Don't get me started on snipers...I have a couple videos covering that. The one game we don't have long-range weapons and kites/rats dominate. 🥺
@@dsaBOSSSo much for Core Theory.
the point on build redundancy is a shame, there really isn't a good solution to this because from the test of time, any game with choice,
creative players are always outnumbered by "copy what works." the whole 'we live in a society' schtick. i do think if we had more parts this wouldn't be an issue, i think numbers wise ac6 isn't that bad in comparison to older games but the way they are distributed, it certainly feels small, i can't really put my finger on it though.
i do think a good portion would like to be creative but don't know where to start so they default to blueprints and any failures will result in blaming the build over particular adjustments.
the documentation for this game is all over the place and most will be lucky to find a quarter of it past the basics. and this is pretty important for knowing how to counter play different weapons or what weapons can excel in different situations to avoid defauling to certain weapons only. we can't expect people to adapt and be creative if they don't have answers to pull from in the first place.
Then don't get me started on latency. its even an issue in jp playing ac6 and they all live next to each other in comparison to our connection.
That's the thing, AC6 has a decent amount of parts compared to other first time entries. However, it has the least amount of competitive weapons. That's why it seems like there's less than what's actually available.
As for latency, that's for pretty much any of their online features and I could probably dedicate an entire video talking about that lol.
I have dumb idea but makes Stagger recover ways faster (like in 1 second if no impact taken, the stagger bar will start reliving) and have a impact falloff which use different stats from ideal and effective range. Closer you are, more impact you get. And the falloff has to be steep too
My idea is that it will make high impact weapons like pistol and Zimm less forgiving but this would lead to kites being strong so impact falloff is there to ensure ransetsu and Harris can't stagger you 200M away and Quick recovery means missile can't build oppress you kilometer away even if you dodge almost all the missile, maybe increase missile reload times too even.
I'm just happy to see someone posting about the game in 2025...
Definitely need a rando quick match option to give us peace of mind when grinding through the same meta builds in rank
There was heat in previous versions as well.
Kinda stagger.
Also while turn speed was low on tanks, AP was 3 times the AP of avg LW.
FCS lock distance dictated more the combat flow for both kites and aggro builds where midrange rifles could also be used.
The need for a radar.
No incoming shot noise + visual Q.
Plasmas had FCS/radar interference.
There were more parts.
Bring back cores that have built in missile interceptors, bring back shoulder extensions that have missle flares as well as other utilities such as shields and mines and even specialized boosters.
Bring back cores that had exceed orbits, both shell and energy types. Bring back shields especially solid, more heavy shields that can be carried on either arm that has a health bar to it. Bring back duel blades builds.
Tone down the damage accumulation concerning stagger so the matches can last longer. One of my most memorable pvp fights was when both I and the opponent ran out of ammo which resulted in using blades to finish the match. Bring back, back unit radars to increase range of enemy detection.
Make sniper builds viable with quads being able to plant all four feet into the ground for optimal sniper artillery fire, bipedal has to kneel like the the older gens to make use of sniper artillery. Make taking cover more important for survival in battle so that matches don't feel like brainless dps races. This requires well thought out maps with good sniper positions. Check GBO2 maps for inspiration. Make limbs have a certain amount of health so limbs can be blown off which will encourage players to take cover more.
Implement arena maps and battlefield maps; arena maps obviously being smaller with less cover, battlefield maps having more distance with more cover. That way people can choose what kind of AC battles they want. Last but most certainly not least, bring a compilation of all the previous ost if that's possible so we can hear those funky songs again and make tuning your mech the way it was in fourth gen. I'd even like to see stabilizers return. Implement all that's mentioned here Fromsoft, and you'll have a far more happier, more creative fan base than what you have with AC6. Oh my God how can I forget, BRING BACK CO-OP! Now I'm done.
There are plenty of things you could address, but I think the easiest ways to improve things are:
-nerf zimms.
-buff lots of different arms so half of all builds aren't using basho.
-slightly improve the output of low-capacity generators to widen their loadout options.
-make shields less effective vs melee.
-a timeout is a draw unless the AP difference is at least 1000.
As someone who has played all the original entries in the franchise except for Formula Front, i guess the biggest issues in terms of AC6 PvP are:
[ Stagger system ]
- something that basicly forced majority of people to come up with the most busted builds in order to abuse said mechanic, while at the same time reducing the skill level required by players in order to be decent in PvP.
Also, i'd rather not compare AC4's Primal Armor to the current Stagger system in AC6 since they're quite different mechanics.
Having an extra layer of protection that can eventually turn into AoE damage is one thing, while being entirely unable to react while taking massive damage is another;
[ Weapon balance ]
- there's some weapons that are obviously way better than others, reducing the viability of the overall arsenal that the game offers you, while not providing reliable parts either to counter specific weapons( for example: proper missile decoys );
[ Matchmaking ]
- with the current netcode setup, it's just a recipe for disaster.
Playing against people that might eventually teleport every few seconds while being damaged by phantom hits is not fun at all, but let's move on;
[ Ranked system ]
- now this is a total mess.
The majority of people that got into top 100 do not play in ranked anymore except for very few of them( at least on PS5 ) because they tend to go into custom lobbies instead just to avoid loosing their precious numbered tag, since at high level you loose way more than what you can gain after being defeated by a lower rank.
That system itself creates a pool of low-mid level players that will never manage to get into top 100 simply because they don't have enough chances to get points and keep them.
Having a fixed amount of points gain by same/higher/lower rank would have been way better and would have promoted active play in a fair way, instead of making people grind for enough points just to get into top 100, and then never touch ranked again.
This comes from someone who's already been in S rank twice and still is by the way, both in single and team pvp.
Long story short: they probably made the current game with specific features changes compared to the previous entries in order to make AC6 more accessible for new players, since their focus was mainly the single player experience.
Problem is, at the same time they lowered a lot the skill level that was once required in pvp in order to be decent, and the overall balance between weapons was something that was, sadly, not done very well.
The stagger system adds intensity and makes everything you do matters but however it can be perfected
i want hard-lock gone: i want *some* amount of mechanical skill to matter in this game. and thank you for pointing out that the meta game has just devolved into rock paper scissors, no one else seems to want to admit it
I always said that the problem with the stagger system was getting staggered altogether. The lore mentions something like ACS being responsible for the minute movements that caused incoming fire to impact at less damaging angles e.g. cause less AP damage. When we go into ACS overload, this system goes down and a portion of our defense is also ignored.
Stagger should be removed, only a miniature stun (like getting hit with HMMR) when our ACS is overloaded. Then, your ACS bar should remain red and you should take direct hit damage while it is that way. LWs will go into ACS overload quicker, but they recover in like 2 seconds. Heavies will take longer to overload, but they remain that way for 4-5 seconds. This way, weapon impact is slightly less of a factor, and there won't be anymore stagger extension that only a few competitive weapons (shotguns, zooks) can even exploit. Melee should obviously stun a bit more, but they would also need to adjust cool down times.
There definitely needs to be a more obvious difference in ACS overload times between the weight classes, as it seems to be a very little difference between an ultralight and an ultraheavy.
Redoce all impact damage by a significant amounts as in 70% to 80%, and only by 20% to 30% to Shotguns, Bazookas and certain melee weapons.
Yeah there are a couple things i think they could tweak. Like reducing air time on mech. Make it more ground based like the older gens. Balance direct hit damage between the weaker and stronger attack power weapons. Weapons getting up there close to the 1000 atk power point dont really need,if any, big bonus damage. Should be only weaker weapons can punish stagger. Also maybe adjusting stagger so lighter impact weapons do the base stagger while heavier impact weapons will throw your mech back on or during stagger to mitigate combo punishes with heavier weapons. Cant say how this will help in practice but feels like they would
i can't see any way removing or even reducing the stagger mechanic does anything except narrow the meta in favor of kites even further. what am i missing about this idea??
It's really simple and I mentioned this in the video, but being able to respond allows for a counter attack instead of sitting there helplessly. Kites are dominant partly because when they do stagger you, they can backpedal even farther while the staggered player has to sit there, get chipped at, AND make up for the loss in distance.
Something that I think really needs improvement is netcode. On multiple occasions, I've dodged a pulse laser or oscillator hit by 50+ meters and it still registers as a hit and I get staggered and die. Also, I would absolutely adjust the stagger mechanic. Probably just make it a state where you only take the increased damage and maybe reduced speed. Being stopped entirely is too harsh.
Honestly one solution I'm not sure if mentioned could be a budget system in pvp. Give the player a certain amount of coam to use when building a mech. This could be interesting as it would allow different tiers in pvp as well as make it easier to balance as devs could kust increase or decrease the price of parts if they feel stat nerfs/buffs inappropriate.
I would also like effective range to be removed as having fcs and weapons that can hit longer ranges would help with catching rats and have a meta less centered around shotguns and lasers
Never been a fan of the idea of limiting a player's access to building an AC, but I can see its merits.
I do agree about range in this game, damage drop off from weapons is the main contributor to rats and kites being overused.
Imo if stagger mechanic can be fixed by basically just the game turning off boosters (like youre forced to WALK) and shields instead of an outright stun, it would make it so you cant just fly up and deny melee punish while also making sure you can still somewhat retaliate when someone w melee comes in, it also would make some missile types (the verical normal missile thats absoluty dogshit) to be a punish tool
It also lets leg jump speed be waaaaaay more impactful, and to balance around RJ being able to leap far make it have extended disabled booster duration as they get one free out of jail card off punishes
I feel you, I get S rank since ranked comes out, also 2 seasons I was around 43 and 12 in the leader board (with my own build I don't need a meta #### for win) and what I see in 1 year are desperate for win,people that are a copy of a copy a copy ecc. when needed for win is put on top instead fun, real competition does not exist anymore..
I say buff every weapon, reduce ammo, lightweights goal is outlast ammo supply before moving in for the kill. Add new weapons such as sniper rifles and traps that lightweights can use to widdle health down while retreating.
you know what i learn from you, you can have all the fun creativity and expression but you have to be ready to rank up too...thats the sad part know you can make the diference and also know what you need to do, all the soultion you name it are grate anything will be a good call to make the pvp more fun but i see too the pvp in any FROM game is like...a second thought something that is just there...i hope some change come for AC6 is a good game but i think is gonna be a the end (I HOPE NOT) in the mod comunity hands...i hope the best for every raven out there and im ready with any of my ACs.
I'm sure FROM is taking notes. Elden Ring: Nightreign is proof that they're looking at what modders are doing.
@dsaBOSS i hope so boss
Your build in this video is killer
Thanks for noticing, it was my attempt at a Coral build. 🪸
you were doing well with it, man! What booster & FCS were you using?
@@tyzombie89 I'll probably do a full build breakdown of it eventually. Not sure if I'm completely satisfied with it yet.
Many parts needs different characteristics in PvE and PvP, because in PvE some weapon have advantage in ammo, but in PvP ammo issue is disappear and this weapon just becomes worst wariations of other, like Xuan-ge is just worst wersion of majestic and advantage is just a reload time, but with less damage and bigger EN+weight cost what's make majestic more usable in most of situations
Not to forget drop speed based on weight. Gen 6 nullifies this.
I feel like I'm taking forever to fall in this game! I miss being able to cut thrusters and fall like a stone, only to pump'um just before landing to avoid staggering.
Hard Lock and Assault Boost are what really fucked movement all up. Remeber when Buerzel was uncatchable at launch? Why do we have a mechanic that automatically closes distance with two button presses? Why does it massively buff both ACS offense and defence? Why can it ignore QB weight penalties?
It's like someone played DBFZ and said "Super Dash is the best mechanic I've ever seen, but it needs a few buffs."
@@Schpoonman From needs to add an overheat mechanic to Assault Boost or allow us to Assault boost backwards like in AC5. That game did a lot rightvin terms of balance. I had some greivances with Verdict day but compared to AC 6 ooff. In AC 6 You can ignore half the mechanics and just spam Assault boost with dual zimms and hit s rank😂.
Drop 10 of us in a map from the story all with 1 repair kit, if you kill someone you get another.
Well, for starters, I'd balance for pvp first campaign second, so i have a solid foundation to work with when i add co-op
I would reduce the damage of energy weapons first. And increase reload on explosive weapons.
And reduce the number of aoe weapons as thier are just too many that or make it so they arnt spammable as much (such as making so it actually effects everyone that way thier is a downside to point blank shooting)
id also reduce the dmg of stagger from 3x down to like 1.5 or 1/2 extra dmg and increase staggered time for all weights as ppl come out of stagger to quickly at times (sometimes you cant land a punish due to them recovering to quick)
id increase AP for all bipeds along with stability so that heavy bipeds are closer to tank stability (add arm stability)
I'd fix stun guns by making them deal only stagger build up with little dmg (when you prock the stun itll give a big boost to the stagger bar instead of massive dmg)
I would have parts actually make sense with heavies having high recoil control and high melee but low fire arm specilization with lighter arms focusing on firearm specilization
Id rework how missiles work alltogether they are so inconsistent they suck when AB but are way to accurate when back peddling,
Id let the chainsaw and hmmr charge while ab
This would only be the start of the balancing id do
6:48 ABSOLUTE #1 takeaway from this video.
Surprised you didn't touch on hard lock. According to some, it's an insult to gamers and everywhere and completely destroys any competitive integrity the game could possess.
Anyway, I like that you offer a balanced take of what has worked before with what is currently working. It's often boring when games don't evolve bewtween entries.
The only reason I didn't go over hard lock is because it's something that also heavily impacts single player. Outside of the stagger system, everything else I covered revolves around pvp.
As someone who enjoyed the challenge of keeping your targets within your FCS lock box, I don't see it working with today's mechanics.
I don‘t think the way the balance is right now, the game can recover. There are obviously some favored weapons, that deal far more impact per second than any counterpart.
And as we all know, it‘s either two stagger gg or 2 minute gg.
Btw I love the build in the background quick swapping wlt and rebula. That would actually be fun to face.
Kites killed the motivation for me, honestly. If they capped the max movement speed to 350, I think that would fix a lot. No more watching 370 speeders just casually gliding sideways as missiles all miss.
I'm just sick and tired of playing against kite builds.
I have brought up banning parts multiple times in some of the armored core discords i am in.
The problem is this game is very flawed on so many levels. For example Stagger is definitely a problem, but it's also because of its terrible enablers, Hardlock + assault boost. It is less of a problem IF you have a shield, but not every build can afford one because its not an inner part. I personally wouldn't mind stagger but the state of these mechanics show just how much pvp was an after thought, because they heavily ignore any player interaction.
The gap between the meta builds and non meta is massive but making more parts more "viable" could also mean Some parts and weapons would essentially be skins because so many parts and weapons do the exact same things. I think Would be interesting if some parts had unique properties or if some weapons actually did 0 impact damage. I also think the absence of a proper tuning system affects the lack of variety in the meta.
The death of turnrates is nonsense. What you want is a more complex relationship with turn-rate, associated with the preferred domain of that leg-type so their bonuses distribute differently.
Without turn-rates, the positioning game is dead and it boils down to ranging and DPS. What's likewise also needed is for arms to have different firing arcs, so the right and left arm can fire further out angle from the left or the right with that angle changing depending on the stability offered by the leg and then to have an advantage which comes with being aligned with the target in terms of recoil management, or stabilization. The robot's body needs to be part of the fight, not just an animation stack which gets cycled.
Mecha combat is supposed to be some form of vehicular combat, even if its very fast and highly automated because that's where the balancing emerges: your ability to select a build, your ability to make decisions and your ability to drive the robot.
What the game needs is a scoring system where the most commonly found builds and parts which win matches get a lower number attached to them and those which are used less win more points -- along with a second score which says how many of those points came from meta builds (eg, how dirty the number is). You do this and you let a matchmaking system exist associated with this and you're going to see very good things happen where people try cracked builds.
Change DCS Range standard / Close: 0-100m , Midium: 100-300m, Long: >300m
close range build with nobrain overboost is too good.
I had a dude crash out on me on Xbox ranked pvp because I used a new non-meta build that used one Zimmerman and he said that it was fault of players like me that nobody played ac6 anymore 😂 So I told him the old From motto: GIT GUD kid. (He was also using a pretty meta kite build...).
I liked a few of your suggestions, but there's a lot of really flawed design baked way too deeply into AC6. Beyond anything else, before I get into EN mangement or hard lock or kinetic shotguns stunlocking staggered enemies despite no stancing on the shooter's part, the absolutely miserable netcode needs overhauling.
Easy Anti-Cheat is a joke. It has not stopped cheaters on PC but it has negatively impacted game performance, and it's done so in such a way to leave bad actors free to manipulate game conditions to win games they should not. I know EAC is a PC-only problem, but it exacerbates issues inherent in AC6's design that still plague Xbox and Playstation.
Yes, any changes discussed can easily be considered for future entries too, not strictly for AC6.
PS3 days?
What was your username?
Mine was badadda.
Got to play against WingedAngel 1 time.
Same username as it is now. There's a few tournament matches of me floating around on RUclips. I'll have to link some of them in another video.
Best way to improve pvp is to add 5v5
The lack of communication is unfortunate. If you host a lobby with banned parts, you have to be watching the host's stream or be invited to the hosts stream with a password and a list of rules and banned parts. This wouldn't be necessary if there was simple communication. Sure, it would be mostly salt, but it is indispensable as a utility to talk to players. I also think an option to "eject" and forfeit a match should be included, so that you can expedite the match to the results screen and report a cheater rather than wait for a match to end.
An eject feature to forfeit sounds interesting. Not sure if I'd use it often, but I did have a recent encounter where it would've come in handy.
Come back to AC4A sometime
the PC scene is pretty active
Remove staggers. Make lightweights speedy again.
Easy: play AC2 AA multiplayer
IMO, FROM's PvP is best when it's not just 1v1 players. The Soul's community has a very active PvP community (even more so than AC) but they tend to avoid stuff like Arenas and do more Invasions. FROM missed a possibly large opportunity to introduce the Invasion mechanic which would have made doing missions more enticing and players having access to co-op would have also been a nice boon for the AC community. As much as I hate AC5, I will admit that at least FROM tried something different with the base systems (though it was done very poorly).
Another missed opportunity for the competitive side would have been time trials for missions - speedrunning in games is very common and having a way for players to compete with each other in different ways would have been another way of giving missions more longevity as players try to outpace each other for first place in missions.
Another problem I have that's more related to the parts is having a bunch of parts (mainly weapons) that feel like copy/pastas of each other in their respective categories. Adjusting stats with small differences doesn't make two parts stand out that much in practice, and players will normally default to the better of the two. Name a weapon type, and chances are this phenomena will be shown.
I'm hoping that FROM experimenting with Elden Ring will mean that they will do the same with AC.
I'm honestly surprised there isn't some sort of invasion mechanic and I like the idea of time trials. Add some unique rewards and it would be a nice addition.
I feel the meta having at least 3 currently viable archetypes is actually already pretty good - especially since they still have slight variations in the builds themselves. Yes, it would always be better to have more viable options, but it's not like 'only zimmerman meta' and trying to make meta 'more varied' is swimming against the current. That said, PvP could still definitely become more fun! I feel a lot for some form of 'stagger is not a complete stunlock', or some other way that makes 1v1-damage potential less relevant (the bornemissza basically has such a large health pool that they create their own reality where 1-hit combos don't exist).
Tangent alert:
The 'meta' is by definition always trying to find 'the best build for this purpose'. Over time this converges into one (or hopefully several) builds that is 'the best' in a given context (weapon balance, game rules, average player skill level*, average opponent build archetype). Once the context is changed (balance patch, new mechanics, rank up/down, counter-builds appear), this process restarts - but it still converges to a single point. Add more different game modes, and all you're doing is spreading the (kinda small) player count over multiple buckets of 'meta convergence' (3v3 is dead), as well as making it hard to keep everything balanced across all modes.
I think we can only really prevent this by changing the context more often, before the meta gets stale. But that is pretty hard to automate: like you said, if you restrict parts, most people would simply not play. It's also hard to do this periodically since the time to convergence varies - if something becomes super powerful suddenly, you get the post-patch ducketts situation where suddenly everything is using the new weapon and they get hotfix-nerfed.
\* Average skill level I include here too, because parts have different skill floors/ceilings. A weapon like the oscillator is far more deadly if the opponent can't dodge, or when you can do the flick trick. The meta generally focuses on the highest levels of skill mastery, but a weapon can be super problematic if it takes little skill to make effective, and much more skill to defend against (shield reaction and anticipation), even if that doesn't technically make it 'meta'.
Fair enough, but the issue with a small umbrella of meta builds means only slight variations due to a limited amount of weapons that have similar performance. That doesn't lead to a healthy metagame in the long-term.
Also, the main reason why 3 vs 3 is the way it is isn't so much due to spreading the player base thin, rather it's the way it was implemented. Not being able to group with friends or other players and rank restrictions are the main culprits to the mode's downfall.
I suggest we MIGHT focus on Things all we can agree to have for the Story Mode, like Co-op Mode (local and online), more Parts, weapons and From banning Kites.
Shields should have a longer deployment time (0.2 seconds ish) and melee weapons need a quality of life improvement across the board. (Damage is in a good spot)
Melee weapons are fine the way they are
@recyclomaster @MobiGeeksOut has a great video about this, interviewing 9 top melee players about it.
How to FIX Armored Core 6's PvP?
Delete it.
I think the game would be a lot more enjoyable without Stun extension. I think regardless of most opinions being able to stun lock and 100% to 0% someone with a long combo turning it into a cutscene execution is terrible. Playing against those builds is unfun and obnoxious knowing if they get a single stagger it’s game over regardless of AP. (I’m talking fist, shotgun, kick and then melee execution of a single stagger.)
Yep a stun from dual zimms equals 60% or more of life is gone. If they took away that shotgun stagger extension Id be able to out play the build but as it is now you have to have a huge skill gap over the zimm user to beat them with a non meta build. I get close then they get a stagger 😂 . It is dumb. Outside that the game is very fun to play. I just get tired seeing bugged basho builds, lil zimmy builds, and Lammekites. Outside those archetypes the game mechanics can shine.