Europe is Building a Massive Undersea Power Network
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- Опубликовано: 9 май 2022
- Why an interconnected energy system makes a lot of sense.
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Executive Producer and Narrator - Fred Mills
Producer - Adam Savage
Video Editing and Graphics - Kurt Fernandes and James Durkin
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I was hoping you would mention the other cable projects going on and you did. Really nice video. I totally agree that being connected is better for us all in the long term. Just need to get the massive solar fields potential installed in north Africa and get that connected.
Has been already tried. Turns out that building a massive solar filed in Africa and transport that energy to Germany (or even to Spain) is not actually that effective. It turns out you could reach the same supply of solar energy with conventional roof solar or building smaller solar fields across more municipalities closer to the end consumers. Look it up on the Real Engineering channel.
@@giovannifacci question is are they utilising the same wire technology or is it more to do with temperature? Or is it more political? Etc
@@giovannifacci I've seen some of their videos before but not that one. Thanks for the tip.
Its not better for all of us, sweden and norway have been forced to import german coal energy and pay the same electricity prices due to the connection
@@birgerjarl4391 the important part of that line is "in the long term"
The good part of such an interconnection is that forces countries to cooperate for mutual benefits. It's not an assimetry connection where there is one supplier and others are buying energy, it's more complicated. Everyone needs everyone for the grid to work properly, that's how a network works.
100% - this is how the future should be!! 👏
@@TomorrowsBuild A video done to compare European and American links would be interesting. From this little information, this feels Texas connecting to to the eas coast.
Indeed
50/50 is the new trend
@@Travlinmo I feel like our system in the US is similar, but Texas was somehow able to maintain it's individual sovereignty on its electrical grid and refused to connect to the other states. Why one state got the option to follow the Constitution and not participate in the interstate grids is unknown.
The result is Texas has more authority over it's electricity network than other states because there are no interstate connections. Congress uses trade between the states to justify it's authority. If a single electrical connection crosses state lines Texas would have to restructure their entire system which would cost billions.
If I understand correctly, in the European Union structure each sovereign nation has the ability to join the super grid or not, and they can negotiate the terms. There will still be some compromise where one nation agrees to a power deal they may not like in exchange for another nation allowing a factory to be built.
Denmark is really taking part in some huge infrastructure projects
Too bad its going to be buried in water (thankfully)
@@stevves4647 how did they hurt you?
@@stevves4647 why thankfully?
@@emiliovincent5903 Because he's a troll.
I love the Danes. Such great people. Sending love up to my viking brethren from Germany
More on the "sun cable" between Australia and Singapore here - ruclips.net/video/wAv6GGDGeJM/видео.html
Crazy how in 2015i was writing papers in my masters degree about the need for super smart grids spanning multiple countries to balance the energy demand. Now in 2022 it's becoming a reality and I even operated the LiDAR machinery in a light aircraft that captured the GIS modelling data for this project!
That's super cool. Thank you for your efforts for this continent and ultimately for our planet
Thank you for more great content. Keep it going.
Thanks for the great feedback, we will 👍
Living most of my life here in Stockholm, Sweden 🇸🇪 I think I can speak for all of the Vikings and say we have absolutely no interest in invading Great Britain 🇬🇧!
Didn't a lot of the Swedish Vikings historically go east not west?
That’s what an invasion force would say
Speak for yourself ... I'll invade them whenever the opportunity is right..
Yeah, they can have that to themselves
No invasion. Just a special military operation.
Great video, it would have also been worth including the recently announced Morocco - UK connector (comes straight from Morocco solar power generation fields)
Wouldn’t it make more sense to connect it to Spain and the UK can purchase the flow on from Spain etc. ?
@@Freshbott2 Maybe, but the direct link would be a DC Link which is much more efficient than transpoting through the AC lines in spain.
After being dependent of Russia for gas…
Now we are pushing to be dependent from another foreign power for electricity… not sure it is a great move.
@@shuaige3360 it's not the same
@@robotraider not the same?
If it is with a country outside EU like those in North Africa… it is worst… as electricity is harder to store than gas.
If it is within EU (or with UK) then it is more a positive things.
One extra feature is that they also carry optic fiber with "Terra-bits per second" flow.
The nice thing about fiber is that you can often upgrade the speeds by changing the equipment at both ends. It definitely makes sense to add a few fiber cables if you need to lay the line anyway, and it's great that there's no interference with the high voltage line the way there would be with telegraph cables.
Do they carry optical fibre with a power line operating at very high voltage (kV)?
@@qpr543 Why not!?
@@nathanbanks2354 fiber does need power, specially repeaters every 60km to 70km (which amplify the signal when long distances are involved) so it adds complexity.
@@qpr543 the interconnector lines are low voltage
You should do a video on SunCable, the crazy undersea powerlink planned between Australia and Singapore
Here in Norway, there isn't much love for the cables going to Germany and Great Britain. Because exporting a lot more power, is the main reason why prices have skyrocketed here in Norway, especially in the southern half of the country. And it has caused shortages in the southern part, making power MUCH more expnsive compared to north. So now there's a debate going on about better (but extremely expensive to build) connectins between north and south, which north fights again to protect its cheaper prices. So I would be surprised if we make any new international connections anytime soon.
Another big issue with this is that Europe does not understand the Nordic climate and policies. In Norway its illegal to use fossil fuel for heating, and during winter when the demand for electricity is highest we need a lot of energy for every home. Additionaly the winters are longer and colder, i have friends and family that have spent about 1 500€ to 3 500 in electricity bills for two - three months, and those are not the worst examples. The prices has soared and are approximately 14 times higher now then last year. While we can wear shorts and t-shirts in central Europe right now, we have to keep our electrical ovens on in Norway until summer comes.
I sympathise with with you and your country ; we got very little benifit either from our north sea oil fields here in the UK.
Regards WKK
Probably a lot of space up your coast to build more wind turbines as wind strengths are very good there and another export for you lucky guys!
WHY THESE CABLES WILL HELP YOUR COUNTRY & YOU:
You will get more money from exporting energy, making your governments get more tax revenue from "us foreigners" than from you paying taxes.
+ more Hydro energy/ wind will be profitable in Norway & Sweden, making you have more domestic jobs, making you richer & increasing the amount of renewables in the EU grid overall.
It will also incentivise less energy usage/ using other means of heating (hydrothermal, wood, communal systems) etc...
Economics work in such a complicated, but often a long-term beneficial way.
I work on the stock market, with a bachelor's in Electrical Engineering - Power generation & transmission. This type of economics is what we do.
With Love, from Slovenia
@@elektrotehnik94 I also have a BSc in engineering, a BA in business, and an MSc in finance. What you have stated is, to some extent, true. However, one of the most prominent issues is that cheap energy was Norway’s main competitive advantage. As Norway was already high costs, we have dulled another edge of our heavy industries.
Some of the wind parks have been created by foreign actors, exporting some of the workers and businesses taxes abroad for offshore wind farms. I know more engineers and technicians working offshore who believe offshore wind farms are a complete joke and mere theatrical. Firstly, due to its costs and complexity, and secondly, because of the environment, the waves in the North Sea can reach 25 meters, with wind, snow, and ice to match. In other words, it is more challenging to build and maintain windmills out there in the open sea than on a field in Europe. It is also one of the most expensive forms of energy we can create to this date.
The incentive to use "other heating means" is not entirely relevant as Norway and Sweden have quite spread populations. Making it more challenging and certainly more expensive to develop hydrothermal or communal systems. As for wood, it is no longer legal to fire with wood in most cities due to pollution. On the other hand, it is still legal to use fossil fuels for heating in several European nations. I don’t have to mention the Nordics are significantly colder than Europe, therefore we also use more of our budget on heating.
Additionally, our electrification of the Nordics has led to severe strain on the energy infrastructures as we should all drive electrical cars, use electrical heating, and whatnot. So we are forcing a total overhaul of the Scandinavian power grid, even though it is about time. We also have a reasonably developed central heating system in big cities, but most people do not live in a city.
There have already been numerous implementations to combat the tremendous usage of electricity in the Nordics. For example, introducing building standards in insulation and ventilation decades is more advanced than anywhere else. Advanced pure burning ovens for those who can still use them and many more. If someone had seen the immense pressure on the man in the street to become greener, you would have been shocked.
Nevertheless, we have a 14 times higher electricity bill than last year. I live in Switzerland and got an electricity bill with quite reckless electricity usage for 200€ for three months this year, ten to fifteen times less than my friends in Norway who was sparse with their energy consumption. It got so bad this winter that the Norwegian government had to step in and provide crisis packages due to the immense electrical costs. Even the students got 300€ as an aid for the increase electricity prices.
What has been stated in the previous comments was not “we do not want you to have our green energy” or “other people bad, we like cheap”. It was merely a statement of what has happened, and the complexity around the topic. We are aware of its long-term effects, but I do strongly disagree with its implementation.
To summarize, it creates long-term gain for the government as most Norwegian energy companies are partly linked to the government, no matter the size. However, the ramification for the commoner in the street is so immense, therefor I do not believe these new policies are a just cause to this day.
Another major proposed interconnector is the x links from Morocco to the UK. 3800km long cable with 3.6GW cable.
Thought it would've been mentioned here?
@@chrisdalrymple6850 It still a very new project that I'm sure will face huge lobbying pressures by the nuclear power supporters to prevent it construction. The last thing they need is more renewables to compete with. I suspect they share a large responsibility for keep tidal power down and out.
@@DavidKnowles0 I think you mean NIMBY!
Finally!! Something is getting done to address this problem of the electrical grid. Great video as usual.
Fixing it by taking water from the Norwegian people and leaving them dry and with the most expensive power in Europe. Nice fix
@@matrimhelmsgaard Taking water from the Norwegian people?!? What are you talking about?
@@thomasfholland Those Hydro dams that you get your "cheap renewable" power from. Well after this horrible deal, they are now empty and we in Norway went from paying 15cents kw/h to 250kw/h for electricity.
For a 100 years we had the cheapest power in Europe. Now its one of the most expensive.
@@matrimhelmsgaard Thanks for helping me understand what you said. I live in Stockholm and I have seen our politicians time and time again make terrible decisions regarding our electricity production. These political decisions made that put second after the EU are horrible and must be reversed.
Man as a future urban planning major I appreciate your content immensely. Thank you so much!
A tip for a future video - the transformation of Sweden's industrial north! 2 fossil-free steel factories and a giant battery factory are being built in the subarctic, making use of existing hydro, wind and nuclear, but still requiring tons of new green electricity, new housing for perhaps a 100k people(10,000 staff in the factories alone), and fun spin-off effects such as perhaps growing farm salmon or shrimp for the entire EU with the waste heat produced by the steel making process. Fossil-free steel could slash world CO2 emissions by 7%.
Great Video. I Love your content. Keep it up boys&girls!
Coming soon; the Celtic Interconnector, which is a 700 MW high-voltage direct current (HVDC) submarine power cable between the southern coast of Ireland and the north-west coast of France.
At 575 km (357 mi), it is
These cables are super unpopular in countries with high domestic electricity production. We’ve seen sky-high rises in electricity prices as a result of selling power to the European market
You can always choose to not sell energy if the domestic demand is too much. The problem isn't interconnects, but companies/governments trying to squeeze the most amount of money from consumers.
If there's additional generation capacity and a place to sell it there is more motivation to build out the capacity and it will bring overall prices down in the end. Whether people benefit from excess energy generated in their country depends on how that country deals with natural resources.
@@tmoney1876 That's true but even in the cases where a lot of these profits go to local municipalities it's often consumers who end up having to deal with higher electricity prices. It's nice that the county can spend electricity profits on improving metro service but it doesn't do much in the end to solve the cost of living crisis.
@@Felix-nz7lq I assume you are talking about the situation in Norway. If so, its entirely up to the government how much of the burden they want to remove. With the energy subsidies that were put into place this summer we ended up with less effective CPI difference than other European countries. Without the cables we would be having the same situation in 2025 when we are projected to enter a power deficit.
If this is Norway, then not using the interconnectors would effectively lead to blackouts c. 2-4 weeks a year (early winter basically). Your criticism is a typical have your cake and eat it problem.
Besides if excess production were to persist in Norway, much of that capacity would close down in the medium term, it would increase climate change and deprive the country if an alternative revenue source to oil and gas...
Amazing! Love it!❤
Thanks for another excellent presentation - very exciting news.
I really wish Canada eastern provinces got past their historical differences on power and built something similar. There have been plans on the table for a very long while, but very little, if any movement at all to build theses links. The combined renewable ressources of eastern Canada could easily allow theses provinces to fully decarbonise and even become a major power provider for the northern US states. Hydro Québec has surplus electricity that it has been trying to sell to the northern US, but opposition to new lines has been a major problem. Newfoundland has been building a new dam and has plans for another on the Churchill river. Underwater links might just be the ticket to getting power from eastern Canada to the northern US states.
Yeah these cables might seem cool, and the construction is impressive, but they are not well recieved by the public in Norway. Electricity-prices in southern Norway have gone up several hundred percent since they were put in use… And its much harder for the poorest to stay warm during the winter. In general, for those less fortunate, the standard of living will go down because of these cables.
WHY THESE CABLES WILL HELP YOUR COUNTRY & YOU:
You will get more money from exporting energy, making your governments get more tax revenue from "us foreigners" than from you paying taxes.
+ more Hydro energy/ wind will be profitable in Norway & Sweden, making you have more domestic jobs, making you richer & increasing the amount of renewables in the EU grid overall.
It will also incentivise less energy usage/ using other means of heating (hydrothermal, wood, communal systems) etc...
Economics work in such a complicated, but often a long-term beneficial way.
I work on the stock market, with a bachelor's in Electrical Engineering - Power generation & transmission. This type of economics is what we do.
With Love, from Slovenia
@@elektrotehnik94 profitable for who though? Only the generators. The Norwegian government already has plenty of revenue. So much that they need to put it in holdings to stop it from inflating the cost of living into oblivion. No Norwegian in their right mind is lamenting the government’s want for more money, especially while their costs go up. More integration is supposed to smooth out both demand and supply curves which in theory should lower prices. But it hasn’t cause those other countries aren’t putting in as much when Norway’s demand is high/supply is low. More integration should have come with more demands on the countries on the other end of the wires.
hey Fred impressive video as usual, thanks.
Thank you for your wonderful and educational channel.
while i think we're at least 5 years behind of where we should be on interconnectivity, it's kind of hard to complain while we have such a huge lead on the rest of the world.
great video. you could of mentioned xlinks UK to morroco 10.GW. 3600 km
Thank you for sharing this information.
Cool stuff. Ambition much needed.
There a proposal to build a 4,200km undersea link between Australia and Singapore, with a massive solar farm in Australia supplying 2.2GW of green power. The cost is around A$30 billion.
Totally absurd!
@@arturoeugster2377 The idea or the post?
@@scottdd2 The proposal, look at the mess of abandoned wind.mills in Palm Springs.
Solar power on the roof is good.
When large companies get involved, the public loses.
Easier to ship to them (Singapore) liquified natural gas on those LNG carriers, from the Australian Source and huge liquefaction "ship" west of Perth.
using the CC systems the power efficiency is 62%
GE aeroderivatives. All tried and proven, infrastructure exists.
We, in Bolivia need for our high altitude agriculture desperately higher co2 content, now an insufficient 0.28 grams/m³ to grow GREEN vegetables and wheat. Think about the near famine of about 1 million indios
living above La Paz. low air density at 14 600 feet.
Take a trip to El Alto airport and see for yourself.
The video was full of interesting information but I would have liked to have seen a more numerical analysis, like what are the losses in these cables and what are the costs plus some info on the cable technology itself. Another point I would like to know about is that considering the France-England connection is roughly symmetric, then why did it blow up our end? Can we not get the staff or what?
The losses are generally less than 5% on the cables, even the gargantuan ones in China (as in, I don't know of any project where more than 5% is lost in the cable itself), there is also a couple percent lost in transformation.
There was a fire at the converter station in Sellindge, Kent last September. The cause of that fire is not very clear.
Great video that show the risks of these large network. Costs of creating these large networks need to be compared to the costs of alternatives. Like large local storage. Likely both have their use until a certain level. Storage being the local provider for stability and need for power, being filled up over longer term from larger network connections
Brilliant!
Beginning steps to get from type zero to type one civilization on Kardashev scale
It would be nice to see the United States kind of joining a grid like that it would be interesting to see and also here’s an idea for generating power what about using undersea water currents and putting generator systems in place at those and having turbine being propelled by a blade like propeller to generate energy as well
A lot of states use a similar system with other states in the US actually minus Texas because Texas is being Texas
I really enjoy the way you present these upcoming projects and why they are potentially necessary. A lot of these kind of videos clickbaits the title going something like "CouLD ThIS NeW POWERsoUrce SAVE THE WORLD???" only to say that it's only made progress in a laboratory, it's been undergoing trial and error for 20 years and could be on the market in another 20. This was well made and gave a lot of useful information to on a basic level understand what's going on.
Subbed, looking forward to more videos like this!
Really interesting approach to integrating transnational renewable grids! It would be interesting to also get an understanding of the environmental impact and analysis prequirements for these projects.
a sure fire way of making sure every country in this super grid is paying the highest possible energy prices
One thing you might have mentioned for those who are passingly familiar with electrical principles (or just the history of the battle between AC and DC power) is that the interconnectors are ultra high voltage DC, that over a long enough distance, DC with a monstrously high voltage suffers less losses than AC over the same distance.
It also disconnects the frequencies of the two grids so variations don’t cause cascading issues as much.
Thank you, I was looking for an explanation like this.
How is frequency managed when connecting countries with AC ?
@@agentblueuk Generally the grids have to be synchronized for AC links.
This makes so much sense.
9:03 Producer Adam Savage
Wow, I just learn He's working with this channel.
Very interesting, European connected power grid, it's a wonder they never thought if this during the 70s or 80s.
Energy was dirt cheap back then.
Norway - Sweden - Finland chain has been quite strong in the north for decades and is made stronger again soon when another line is opened. Also in last couple decades two strong DC link has been built between Finland and Sweden. But it is important to keep these networks stable as we have synchronized networks.
Iron curtain and many countries hadnt joined the EU yet, Europe was less united.
It's not new but the scale of it is just bigger and bigger, like the demand.
New Zealand built an undersea cable like this between its North and South islands decades ago, in the 1960s. Nice to see the rest of the world catching up.
Killing it! First b1m now this. Great job
Larry, you are right when talking about the birds!
Thanks for the positive message! 😊
Are these under the sand on the bottom of the sea? Are they protected from strong jawed fish?
Yes
Norwegian consumers are pretty unhappy that these cables increase the electricity prices pretty substantially. Especially now that there is dwindling supply in the Hydro reservoirs due to drought snd late snow melting.
As some of the UK’s large offshore wind comes online in the next couple of years, Norway should reap some of the cheap electricity associated with that
Sounds like a distribution problem to me. Average prices globally go down with more interconnections, even as local prices go up. Someone is clearly making money from this in Norway then and this money should not fully remain in their pockets but go back to the consumers who are shouldering the temporarily higher prices.
@@unvergebeneid I think the only issue in these countries will be who benefits from the use of the natural resources. In the US, regular people often don't benefit from the possible price reductions because capitalism creates a perverse incentive. Even if the cost of energy goes down, the consumer may not see it because it presents an opportunity for the company that owns the generation capacity to make more money.
Europeans should eventually see a net benefit (eventually) from the additional flexibility that the interconnects offer as long as those benefits don't all get concentrated and handed to rich people...
@@unvergebeneid somebody also has to pay for the cable cost and Norway is blocking new onshore development. Their own fault
Make Norway great again, cut the cables, build a wall....wait a minute... that didn't sound right!
These cables are so important. This is how we reduce the need for batteries. It is important that all countries involved also build out their production capacity, otherwise power will just be very expensive for everyone
This cables are a disasterclass for the Norwegian people. Norway selling their spare energy to Europe and getting Higher prices of energy back.
Offshore construction ships are really amazing ships. They are such fascinating vessels. I just wish you can buy a model kit of them instead of trying to scratch build one of these over years and hope they look convincing as a model.
This will only work if there are no disagreements (political/economical) which at the moment is fine in the most of EU/Europe in the countries mentioned in the video.
I do however think that each country should attempt at meeting it's own energy needs within it's borders, else others may play ransom games, like we'll switch off the power when you need it the most if you don't agree to this and that. As I said earlier, at the moment, it's all good, but in few years time, who knows so these solutions should be thought of as backups! Also maybe the converter stations should be connected to large battery systems to act as a buffer?
I would think any one nation threatening a neighbour would be met by having their own supply threatened. Isn't that how nuclear weapons work?
There would be deterrence because the opposite can also happen
@@geoffhaylock6848 You're missing the point. If countries start to rely on energy from someone else, they can easily get stuck in that game, and some countries will find it easier to simply continue purchasing surplus energy from neighbouring countries then to invest in their own energy production. All good when relationships are fine, but the times the relationships are strained is when it will matter. Always best to meet your own energy supplies, that should be the aim for every single country.
@@bennyceca And your plan for small countries is?
@@geoffhaylock6848 smaller countries especially are most likely to get bullied when it comes to these sort of deals, again, best to be as self sufficient as possible. I am not their planner, it's down to them ;p
One positive side effect from building interconnectors and offshore windmills, it may create habitats for fish and decrease trawling👍
Offshore wind farms are indeed no-fishing zones. As you say, this is good.
@@DavidOfWhitehills Generally, fish avoid these vibrating man-made structures as much as possible. Above? Birds get slaughtered.
@@earlysda Untrue and untrue. Just out of interest, what are your other objections to windfarms, undersea interconnectors and renewables generally?
@@DavidOfWhitehills "The paper continued: “Of the 23 priority bird species killed at renewable energy facilities, 11 (48%) were either highly or moderately vulnerable, experiencing a greater than or equal to 20% decline in the population growth rates.” At the greatest risk are raptors such as golden eagles, kites and owls. These birds are often all-year residents around wind farms, where they require open skies to catch wind currents, perform mating rituals, defend territory and dive for prey. For their part, modern wind turbines generate enormous air fluctuations, while massive blade tips travel at over 150mph.
Published in the journal Royal Society Open Science, the paper examined numerous wind and solar facilities in California. The state was selected since it was said to be a “global diversity hotspot” and a big developer of alternative power. Few details of bird kills have been available in the past but the report notes extensive previous slaughter caused by collisions with wind turbines and photovoltaic panels. In addition birds are killed by beams of light from concentrated solar power towers."
"Merrimam concludes that 1.17 million birds are killed by wind turbines in the U.S. each year."
"“About 200,000 bats are annually killed at onshore wind turbines in Germany alone. These numbers are sufficient to produce concern for future populations, as bats are long-lived and reproduce slowly, so cannot quickly replace such losses.”"
I wouldn't expect you to know these facts if you believe the mass media that pumps out propaganda for its religion of "Climate Change". But now that you do know, maybe you can flee that cult religion.
@@earlysda The only solution to have no impact on nature is if we all kill ourselves tomorrow. All ways of generating energy have downsides.
WIndmills kill birds, hydro prevents fish migration and mess up river flows, fossil : apart from CO2 there is the fine-dust which causes lung disease, nuclear: the waste.
If your plan is not to kill yourself or to return to caves we'll have to mix it up and minimize the downsides. Wind is a perfectly fine option, you just cannot rely on it for all your energy.
STUNNING SHOT !!!
great video
You should also have mentioned that Ukraine has been rapidly linked into this grid to keep their power going during the war.
A smart idea to offset the negative aspects of IRE (intermittent Renewable Energies) like Sun and Wind which indirectly produce A LOT of CO2 as their intermittent aspects is ALWAYS offset by gas turbines!
So a new era Pangea. I love it!!!
Hey, great to see content on one of the more important aspects of the renewable energy transition! Other people seem to forget how important interconnections are. Also great to hear you mention that a huge cable can become a liability; the stability of the electricity supply network is so often overlooked. Very nice video!
One minor complaint I have is that Spain has no need of French energy to power their trains, that comment was odd and even felt it had some derogatory undertones. In fact, Spain has more installed capacity to peak demand ratio than France, it is France that sometimes struggles to meet demand when their large Nuclear power plants are under maintenance; which never happens in Spain (expensive gas kicks in instead). The interconnections in the Pyrenees serve the very same purpose as in any other two countries: get the cheapest electricity possible. The trains run just fine in Spain without French power.
We have “inter-connectors” over here in the good ol USA. We just call them power cables. They take electricity even farther than them things y’all have over there.
@@khaldrago911 • My understanding is that the transmission cables in the U.S.A. cannot carry the amount of power that will be needed in a "green" future. I don't recall the source, so I can't provide it for you, but you may want to look into it on your own.
OK, this is how Europe should have been connected 10 or 15 years ago if not further back. The first Irish wind farm was in Bellacorick, Mayo in 1993 and the Danes and others were at it for years before. Pumped storage in Norway primed by Spanish sun or Scottish wind could be used to power the grid when the wind isn't blowing from Ireland to Italy.
I'm baffled as to why this has not been done fully already and we wound down from Russian gas and oil years ago - or even better, choose to have at least one redundant system.
The delay is just more grist to the theory that the EU/US got Russia dependent on us. To whatever end I wouldn't like to speculate.
It's all about what's cheapest in the moment, as well as what can be completed in-between party elections I suppose.
The inter connection with Russia was an attempt to bring Russia into the world community. Similarly with the international space station. Russia being a dictatorship doesnt have to follow benneficial norms. There was no way to know that Russia would be so suicidal in there energy policies. Thank Putin for that. If by chance we get a reasonable leader in Russia. We could bring peace and prosperity to the world. Example China.
Micro tunnel, you know? a 'pipe'
Been waiting for your content on main channel
The XLinks HVDC cable connection between Morocco and the UK is very impressive in that field.
These projects are so important! In Norway this cables has become extremely unpopular. With record high electricity prices, these cables are getting most of the blame in the eyes of the public. This is a challenge that needs to be dealt with, to have support for building more
Without these cables Norway would have blackouts 2-4 weeks a year and it's excess capacity would be shut down over the medium term...
@@pm3390 I know, people forget how important these are during the winter..
@@Whalebay WHY THESE CABLES WILL HELP YOUR COUNTRY & YOU:
You will get more money from exporting energy, making your governments get more tax revenue from "us foreigners" than from you paying taxes.
+ more Hydro energy/ wind will be profitable in Norway & Sweden, making you have more domestic jobs, making you richer & increasing the amount of renewables in the EU grid overall.
It will also incentivise less energy usage/ using other means of heating (hydrothermal, wood, communal systems) etc...
Economics work in such a complicated, but often a long-term beneficial way.
I work on the stock market, with a bachelor's in Electrical Engineering - Power generation & transmission. This type of economics is what we do.
With Love, from Slovenia
The concept is great... but it's wildly unpopular because it's increasing the prices in the "production" country far beyond normal levels.
Lets say the production country normally has €0.2 per kw/h. The consumption country has prices around €1.5 per kw/h.
Now, instead of the production country keeping their regular price, and sending the excess supply to the consumption country (which is the ideal), what is actually happening is that the production country prices increase to €1.5 per kw/h, because that's the "marked price" for the connected area.
Then in addition to this, when the production country has lower production, the prices increase to maybe €2 or €3 per kw/h, while the consumption country still sit at €1.5 per kw/h.
So in theory these are great, in practice this is just lining the pockets of power producers and squeezing everyone else.
That capacity would be shut down medium term as it's not profitable.
Also no European country could avoid blackouts during some days without interconnectors
It's like if Netflix would increase the subscription cost because they need investments for new, expensive contents. Why not let other parties throw upfront investments instead?
WHY THESE CABLES WILL HELP YOUR COUNTRY & YOU:
You will get more money from exporting energy, making your governments get more tax revenue from "us foreigners" than from you paying taxes.
+ more Hydro energy/ wind will be profitable in Norway & Sweden, making you have more domestic jobs, making you richer & increasing the amount of renewables in the EU grid overall.
It will also incentivise less energy usage/ using other means of heating (hydrothermal, wood, communal systems) etc...
Economics work in such a complicated, but often a long-term beneficial way.
I work on the stock market, with a bachelor's in Electrical Engineering - Power generation & transmission. This type of economics is what we do.
With Love, from Slovenia
AFAndersen, while your analogy is true, the price points mentioned are wild. As of September, 2021, the most expensive electricity per kwh was in Denmark at 0.36usd.
This sounds like the guy from the B1M.. such a soothing voice!
Nice video.
It is pretty hated here in Norway as it helped the prices on electricity go up like crazy to the point the government had to help poorer familes out and ppl could not stay warm in the cold nordic winter. We otherwise would have had a better time pricewise if the energy companies didn't export energy for a lot of money... hope it will be positivt longterm
Pretty sure your Government/energy companies aren’t giving away the electricity they export!
@@martinwinlow No, as I said they are making a killing of exporting it. My English might be a little off...
@@Anirossa My point was that your government earns revenue from exporting electricity some of which they use to support those that need it.
@@martinwinlow they did have a act where they help the small number of people that already get money support to have a roof over their heads, besides that did they cut out the tax for a period in winter. So yeah, they did do something, but they still getting rich while citizens sell their houses and others cut down where they can to try makes ends meet with the fuel, eletrical going up like crazy as well as food prices going up. So not great for a country that have more than enough crudeoil and hydropower to be fine. If we were not exporting it to buy back dirty energy from europe at a premium as stated.
This sounds good when you say it, but in actuality its its such a bad deal for the Norwegian people
It's not. Norway can make money by exporting electricity.
With the current energy issues in Europe this sort of project seem extremely important.
WHEN YOU WANT GOOD YOU CREAT AAMAZING STUFF AND WILL BE ALOT MORE
765km of cables at 70 tonnes per km is ALOT of stuff! And it only carries power not makes power… Where are the molten salt Thorium reactors capable of 2 cents per kWH carbon less power?
Present a reliable documentation for profitability. All parts of such projects are recyclable, no eternal pollution issues, known and reliable technology. Nuclear power has none of these essential benefits.
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I love the extreme high voltage 480KV AC towers the are stafe and wind and even ef3 tornado proof
Clever stuff really
Why is no one talking about Geothermal energy?!
We have a massive heat generator below everyone's feet and a lot of skilled drilling companies that can reach it. Basic thermodynamics would tell you that using hot water at high pressures will make steam that could turn a generator. Push the return steam through a valve that expands the pressure to return it to water. From that you can easily create a *closed-loop* where the cold water flows down and the hot water flows back up to the generator... Iceland does this on a grand scale... And you don't have to be located on the Ring-of-Fire to make it work...
Best part about this: no fatal byproducts. We already have the tech to make it happen thanks to the Oil industries. We don't need to constantly wait "20 years" for Fusion tech to mature...
Why do you come to a video about interconnectors and ask why nobody is talking about a type of production plant?
For homes I think renewable is cheaper ? So maybe that's the reason. But still used for heating more and more often.
@@autohmae Geothermal is renewable.
He isn't talking about earth to air/water heat pumps, he is talking about geothermal electricity production.
As in what Iceland generates its electricity from.
@@freedomfighter22222 I know, it's just the only comparison I can make. I know extremely little about the other kind. Other than the one that comes from hot springs. Like Iceland. I imagine the drilling being similar in costs in case of the geothermal you speak of
@@autohmae
yeah, the drilling costs and laying pipes to pump a liquid around in to extract the heat is the huge upfront cost of it.
for heat pumps it is a bit different though because you have the air/air solution that is usually just cheaper, but earth/air heat pumps does get used in places where it becomes very cold in winter.
Geothermal also just isn't being installed in high number and could probably be done cheaper if it was selected as a solution, just like wind and solar has drastically been reduced in price over the past decade after people really started wanting them and more industry has been dedicated to scale up production.
Geothermal while more expensive does have the benefit that it can deliver constant power regardless of weather, it can be installed basically anywhere and out of sight unlike windmills and also doesn't affect local wildlife like birds.
They are basically nuclear power plants without the nuclear, single huge plants with constant output of power harvested from a heat source that boils water and drives a steam turbine.
the only difference is the heat source.
It is probably the most environmentally friendly energy source, it doesn't kill wildlife, it doesn't require special minerals, it takes up a small amount of space, it doesn't require extra energy storage since it has a constant output that can easily be regulated according to demand.
It is superior to all other energy sources except for price.
Are these underwater cables a new invention? Why didn't we build a interconnected supergrid 20 years ago?
On average Denmark gets 57% of the electricity from wind, but on a good day we can get over 150%. On those days, Germany will pay Danish windmill operator to turn them off, because they can't handle the excess electricity and there is no connection from North Germany to South Germany. It all seems like a terrible waste.
Undersea power transmission has to be high voltage DC, because AC loses too much to capacitance. So even if there was enough incentive (and without renewables there probably wasn't), the technology may not have been there.
@@concinnus Interesting, but I'm kind of confused. I thought it was AC that was best for long range high voltage transmission.
@@Maitch3000 In air, there's no capacitance issue. Underwater, it's dominant.
Do you find it surprising that there are tens of thousands of underwater cables since close to 100 years ago in Europe alone.
@@hurri7720 Those are communications cables, using much lower power, and nowadays the signal is optical. The first undersea cable (telegraph) failed probably because of pushing too much voltage.
The DC to AC inverters also have to synchronise the imported supply to the phase of the receiving grid.
Currently working on Viking Link and other similar projects. Press event coming up, should come along.
Anyone else catch that they said its converted from AC to DC to transmit? This is the new tech and it's exciting but also Edison might end up winning the power war in the long run. High voltage DC is way more efficient to transmit than AC
I was wondering if this was a mistake. Interesting stuff 👍🏻
No, DC cables and the transformers are too expensive. It only makes sense through the sea - and over very long distances from point A to B like the one in China, where HUGE solar and wind parks are in the Gobi desert and the power is transported to the megacities on the coast.
Edit: I confused AC and DC, sorry. Corrected.
AC-DC-AC conversion is complicated but AC undersea cable cannot be really that long (less than 100km) to work effectively. DC does not have anything else than resistive losses in transmission, and AC suffers from capacitive and inductive losses on long sub sea cables a lot. So it is about choosing the correct line for correct use. On shorter lines and above ground AC is usually the better one as transformers are cheaper than AC-DC-AC conversion.
DC link also gives the possibility to transmit power between networks which are running on different frequency area, meaning same frequency but not in sync.
@@Karjis Is the difference between undersea and in air transmission at all related to water being a polar molecule?
@@Karjis don't forget the additional skin effect losses which affect AC transmission only.
Well the cables have been a major blunder for Norway though.
Since they where laid, the energy prices skyrockeded.
We were quit self sufficient with clean hydro based energy.
Now there is always talk of low water levels in or hydroplants, and their destroying our landscape with huge noisy wind turbines.
Are you sure it's not due to the moon or jupiter, ps could it be you have at times had less snow like in so many countries. Quite frankly I would accuse your wife for all of this.
Sounds political to me. The initial reason for the interconnection was to sell surplus power and to stabilize the grid,
Power flows in both directions depending on demand and supply. Just might be that energy prices would have increased even if the interconnection wasnt there. Huge noisey windmills? Where did you get that slogan from? Do i sense fascist propaganda?
"Well the cables have been a major blunder for Norway though.
Since they where laid, the energy prices skyrockeded."
It's because Norway can make more money by exporting electricity.
"destroying our landscape with huge noisy wind turbines"
You'd rather have someone else do that? (Besides, wind turbines aren't all that noisy.)
I never knew Europe has such an efficient power distribution infrastructure. Great Video!
Europe is killing itself with "green energy".
And this is just the start
@@earlysda how come?
@@Sedna063 Sedna, were you not aware until now that many people have died because of the high prices of so-called "green energy"? Also, many birds are being killed by wind turbines and farmland is being destroyed by solar farms.
@@earlysda
1. How many people died of high energy prices? By the way, oil and gas are up whereas my photovoltaic cells are not… Please; give me a number.
2. And you think the air pollution, the smog and mining / drilling, does not? Kill birds and ruin farmlands? Just check how many heavy metals are deposited on farms by coal firing plants through their chimneys? Tons of mercury, lead, Uranium..:
I also read a paper about how the electromagnetic fields generated by the cables effect the migration patterns of brown crabs 🦀.
Hey why dont we join the EU
It would be so good
Why has no one thought of this before :/
Lower prices? Who is paying for these cables? Infrastructure. How long till these need replacing? I'm all for infrastructure, but we should take Frances system as an example and build new nuclear power.
The generation price (£/kWh) of solar and onshore wind is already much cheaper than nuclear, and the price of offshore wind is falling rapidly year on year. Thus the price of electricity should be cheaper long term with more renewable energy in the grid. Although I do agree that nuclear is also an important source we need to utilise.
If we start planning a new nuclear power plant tomorrow, by the time it goes online, we will already have failed to meet the 1.5 degree goal.
@@unvergebeneid I am not encouraged that we will achieve that goal at our current trend. I am hopeful but realistically we should have started this 40 years ago. Think where we would be now! Oh well, hindsight. ..... (Even though the warnings began in the 60s)
@@markhonea2461 well, I agree but we have to work with what we have and I believe the plummeting cost of renewables and storage is the only glimmer of hope we currently have. Nuclear might've saved us 30 or so years ago but it's too late now. But then again, had we invested heavily into renewables back then, we might be in a different position now as well.
You mean France which will have to replace quite a few nuclear power plants in thr next decades and which will be unbelievably costly
Great video! Glad to see Europe taking advantage of habing such short distances
You missed the only one I knew and that the link from Devon to Morocco as they are sharing their solar panels with us the size of London :)
Meanwhile, the USA and Canada are like:
"Man, we do not need that. We are better off passing possible costs and outages to our users..."
Grow strong, EU!
Germany, meanwhile has gone right ahead with solar and wind, and shut down their nuclear and coal plants because they were unnecessary, until they WEREN'T.
Germany has discovered they were sold a load of green manure.
@@SeattlePioneer yes, Germany made a big mistake: a too fast change (from nuclear and coal to renewables), while relying too heavily on energy imports (gas from Russia).
The shift from nuclear and fossil to renewables should be gradual, in order to assess the risks at hand in relation to the specific needs of the energy network.
Moreover, energy plants which are able to fire up quickly should make part of any energy network!
@@hitardo
I'm currently reading Stephen Kotkins excellent biography of Joseph Stalin. One thing is clear from that: The Communist Party NEVER made a mistake! Not about ANYTHING! If someone pointed out mistakes, they were shot or gulagged until people got the idea and quit pointing such things out.
Aren't we seeing the same thing today with the "woke" cancel culture and such?
Elon Musk!
@@SeattlePioneer I would not say that we - the majority of the Western countries - are living in a oppressive manner, neither from the State, nor from Social Media.
Examples of that are the rising of Extremists inside our own borders, e.g., Le Pen in France, Trump and his supporters in the USA; and they all have voices which are not oppressed.
Moreover, we can have a fairly good and constructive discussion.
That said, there are many risks, namely concentrating the powers of communication on a group of people (Bezon with the Washington Post, Zuckerberg with Facebook and WhatsApp, or Musk possible acquisition of Twitter).
These type of concentrated powers of communication is something we should look out for.
Regarding the rest of the World, the panorama is far more complicated:
In India where protesters were attacked, Iran where people are oppressed, Russia and Belarus where people are prosecuted, or China and Hong Kong where people are incentivize to follow the Leader.
What do almost all have in common?
Extremism, either from the far Right, or from the far Left.
To avoid such state of affairs, we shall combat everyday the extreme views we may encounter.
We shall tell people that:
- One reason for this inflation (namely in the USA and the UK), is from not having enough migrants coming to work at jobs many natives do not want to, namely construction;
- In the current Global economy, having a closed country is simply not sustainable; otherwise, we will be left without many goods and inflation would rise sharply (cobalt and many other chemicals for batteries are extracted from a fine number of countries);
- Healthcare, Education, Justice, and the supply of basic goods (Energy and Water) are duties from the State, thus, we shall fight for their continued investment.
@@hitardo
>
I would say that the left is engaging in censorship on a mass scale. You guys consider anyone who disagrees with some element of your politics to be "extremist" and want to prevent such views from being heard. Obnoxious ---- and dangerous.
Not even Biden makes that claim ---and he's grasping at any straw available to explain away the inflation caused by excessive Federal spending.
The global economy is already a dead letter, and it's not coming back. China is locked down, shipping can't be loaded or unloaded and shipping containers can't be delivered. WHAT global economy?
From a world of incredible plenty for most people, we are now a world in which many nations are experiencing food and oil famines. The lights are going out across the world as those oil and gas supplies run out, and people will soon be starving by the billion.
Environmentalists should CHEER this development, about the only evidence that anyone is actually beginning to live a zero co2 life and sourcing their food locally. And all brought about by their hero, Joe Biden, and his desire to expand NATO still farther upon the borders of Russia.
Germany should reopen their nuclear powerplants first and start making their own power. Almost all of european countries have a electricity deficit
Yes! And stop chopping up so many birds.
@@earlysda Are you paid by the Koch brothers? 😉
Driving down nuclear power in Germany was like Brexit, a decision made on feelings not on facts. Sadly.
@@hurri7720 Hurri, Brexit was one of the 3 greatest voting outcomes of that decade. It is paying more and more dividends as the EU slowly strangles itself with regulations.
@@earlysda
Misery loves company.
You forgot the signature words, "...the definitive video channel for construction, subscribe to Tomorrow's Build"
Great video, however, I would have liked to have known what the voltages were (DC and AC). Some of the DC appeared to be 800-kV and the AC appeared to be 500-kV. The voltage structure/overlays are different in Europe than North America, so I'm sure the CEGB standardized voltages were probably 275-kV and 400-kV AC for Great Britain to Norway. However, standards may have changed. Don't know what the overlays are in Europe. Information would be helpful.
I'm no expert on electric engineering, but as far as I've learned, an major advantage of AC is the relative (in theory) ease to change voltages with transformers, which is somewhat different when talking DC. One reason for using DC, technically speaking HVDC (High Voltage Direct Current) is the AC frequency which may be an issue for a few reasons: 1. In Europe, AC power is transmitted at 50 Hz., but for technical reasons different power nets isn't working in sync which might cause problems; in such cases HVDC is easier to handle as long as the input/output voltages is correct and +/- connected correctly. 2. In some other parts of the world, power is permitted at 60 Hz., so in order to connect power nets working at either 50 or 60 Hz. some sort of conversion is required; therefore using HVDC might be the easiest and/or most practical method.
These cables are ruining the norwegian economy so bad we feel it evidentley every day!!🥺 Fearing for the future, even as a norwegian .. Everything just collapsed on us with this. No elecritcity, sky high prices from everything to trying not freezing to death to heating food. Its bad!
👆🏽Denne personen trenger mer medisin.
@@Jay-ho9io Hakke råd etter strømregningen🤔
So you think without those cables it would ve different?
@@Sedna063 it was different last year, then they activated the british cable.
Prices have increased 10x
@@retroftw Correlation =/= causality
Second!
0:05 I think undersea power cables typically also include fiber optic cable.
An important advantage of a DC link is to avoid a direct AC link, wherein overloads or faults on one side can drag the other side down, if protection equipment and/or control centers don't react properly and quickly. With a DC link, a control center can control and limit the level of power transfer.
But I thought DC have greater transmutation losses, this is why we use AC for that. How come DC is better for these extremely long distance cables?
Also not being able to use air gap insolation I assume these lines can't transfer as much if a voltage which must reduce effectiveness further.
@@bergonius DC has lower losses for a given voltage than AC. Also, the cables are cheaper.
It would have been nice to get some more detail, like the voltages used, the losses, downtime and so on.
What are the cumulative grid losses from shifting power from north to south - east to west in Europe vs short travelled power ? What are the cumulative investments for all these interconnectors vs using the same capital for batteries or other technologies for peak load and power management. Would love to hear someting on long haul interconnectors vs short travelled power and storage etc. What are the price impacts for consumers in each country. Its said that Norway had Europes lowest electricity prices which made it a global European hub for power intensive industries. What are impacts for these industries as a function of the new interconnectors? What are the impact for European countries with mostly hydro reservoirs as their national security of supply ? What are the electricity and grid tariff price impacts for Europes consumers as a function of these new interconnectors ?
Bringing us together 😁
This idea will work very well when every consumer/producer entity decides (or is forced) to go into net energy consumer mode.
can you make a video of that vlas bridge they build in Netherlands please?
@04:55 I toughed AC is more efficient in transporting, at least that's what I got from Nikola vs Edison rivalry. So what am I missing?
For a given voltage DC is more efficient than AC. Edison wanted to use *low-voltage* DC.
Nice.
how is this any different oil? if I have more power here, sure I could just share it but what would prevent me from setting a price I want on the power I generated?