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As an avid reader of classic novels, I got a little bit of understanding about the social rules of the time. But nothing compares to the in-depth of your videos! Thank you so much for explaining the details. Now I love Mr. Darcy even more! Such respect for Lizzy!! 😍
I was hoping Ellie would mention the incident where Lady Catherine visits Lizzie. This video ust changed my understanding of that scene, since I always thought it was a mark of Lizzie's shock that she needed to be reminded to introduce her mother! But obviously it was more of a sign of rudeness of Lady Catherine that she didn't even ask for an introduction until well after barging into Mrs Bennet's home!
Thank you for returning to be back in literary & historical action!! For future videos, could you compare 1) England’s differ et n’y classes in relation to same social situations (other classes more loosely followed economic & social ideas & behaviors. 2) Similarly,for other contemporary societies A) Rest of W Europe B.)!E Europe C) US &! Canada E) Mexico, C & S America in cluding Caribbean F) Philippines, Cape Verde, Seychelles, Mauritius, etc. Most likely,,all those societies followed common mores, so research & presentation could be reduced, due to your great work on Regency England. Thank you again.Kansa hamnida. What about Korea in same period?
I’d like to know what rules applied when dealing with tradespeople. For example if someone is looking for a new tailor or wants to ask a land agent some questions about an estate.
I adopted two guinea pigs a couple of weeks ago, and decided to call them Darcy and Bingley. They are polite gentleman, have amazing side burns and yes fellow ladies they do have 10,000 poos a year.
It might be misanthropic of me, but as a person with very high anxiety (not social anxiety, but anxiety about everything and everyone) I’m perfectly comfortable telling my friends that they can skip introducing me to an acquaintance if we pass one one the street. Maybe I should have been born a lady 😂😂
I think it's really just an extension of this, though. If you don't introduce them then you're basically saying you think one of them isn't good enough to be introduced to the other...that the other person would be burdened by having to know them. So the change isn't in introductions, the change is in our (un)willingness to tell people they're not good enough.
@@kray3883 In modern day Ukraine and Russia being the first to introduce yourself and greet the other person is a sign of deference actually. A person of lower status makes the first move. To not initiate contact is a sign of disrespect or challenge to authority.
I kept thinking of the line from And Then There Were None: "We tell the story in Ireland about the two Englishmen who were cast away on a desert island for three years and never spoke to each other, because they hadn't been introduced."
Bowing acquaintance: The equivalent of knowing someone from work or school. Social Calls: Becoming friends on social media and/or texting, phone calls, etc. Dinner/Party: Hanging out
I don't know about the social media thing. I would consider someone that I am friends with on FaceBook, but we've never really DMed each other to be a "bowing acquaintance." DMing each other on a regular basis puts you in the "social calls" category.
I always thought that Mr Darcy, introducing Elizabeth to his sister, was kind of getting his sister to meet and hopefully approve of Elizabeth. He had already decided to renew his attentions to her
Yes. I think it was also a way of getting Elizabeth to see him in a better light. Georgiana idolized him and he doted on her. He probably knew Georgiana would to make his sensitivity more apparent.
For me it has always seemed like a way to get some closer connection to Elizabeth via his sister. And now, knowing the meaning in actually asking her for permission to do so, I see no reason for changing my opinion.
Great video. I am thinking about Emma not wanting to acknowledge the farmer who courted her friend and about lady Catherine refusing to be introduced to the Bennets despite being on their door step at some weird early hour. Super cool!! Plus how Lucy Steele got herself introduced to the right people to score an invitation to the right neighbourhood to meet Eleanor. Hmmmmmm!!!
One question. Mr Bennet called on Mr Bingley even without an introduction as he was a new neighbor. Was this an exception to the rule? Were there social obligations like someone moving into the neighborhood which could excuse the lack of a mutual acquaintance?
Exactly! There were special rules about calling on new families that moved to the neighborhood. I cover more about social call etiquette in this video: How Did the Victorians Social Network? Calling Card and Paying Calls Etiquette 101 ruclips.net/video/QtlpjS_nGpU/видео.html
He probably just left his card, which is a sort of request to be acquainted without putting anybody on the spot or making them feel obliged to accept it.
@@mouseketeery Wouldn’t it be rather rude though to leave a card if the person is at home and willing to receive visitors? Chapter 2 did say he visited so I assume he actually… went to Netherfield? Also in Chapter 3, Mr Bingley is said to have returned the call by spending 10 minutes with Mr Bennet in the library. I assume he wouldn’t have done that if Mr Bennet merely left a card.
28:30 "a salutation that Mr. Darcy just deigned to return." That doesn't sound like a cut. That sounds like Mr. Darcy returned the greeting. I checked in the dictionary in case I misunderstood "deign", but it's "do something that one considers to be beneath one's dignity", so it's the _mot juste._
Yeah her reading and interpretation of that line made me wonder if maybe she doesn't know what the phrase "deign to" means 😬 The scene is definitely an illustration of how coldly Mr Darcy feels towards Mr Wickham, but it's not an example of cutting.
In Persuasion, Elizabeth Elliot goes back and forth on this in her acquaintanceship with Captain Wentworth. On the day that he first comes to Bath and walks into Mollonds, Anne Elliot steps up to acknowledge him and they chat. Captain Wentworth sees Elizabeth and she sees him, but Elizabeth does not acknowledge Captain Wentworth, in spite of his knowing her sisters well, his sister is renting their house, and their having been introduced to each other in the year 1806. Anne feels that Elizabeth is being unreasonably rude. Then, at the concert, when Anne again steps forward to meet Captain Wentworth as he is coming in, Sir Walter and Elizabeth make a slight acknowledgement of him. Once Lady Dalrymple sees Captain Wentworth and thinks that he is good-looking, then Elizabeth and Sir Walter take a much greater interest in becoming closer acquainted to Captain Wentworth because he'd look well walking around in her drawing room. When next she sees him, she speaks to him more than once and makes a particular effort to give him one of her cards. So in the course of about two days, Elizabeth goes from cutting Captain Wentworth to giving him her card and inviting him to come call on the family for the evening party. He is clearly annoyed by her previous rudeness and her change of conduct without any sort of apology.
Thank you for a fascinating, detailed video! And for a bit of humor... There's a point in Alice Through the Looking-Glass (the book) when Alice is made a Queen and there's a big dinner party. Alice is introduced to the leg of mutton, and when she offers to carve it for serving, is told that "It isn't etiquette to cut anyone you've been introduced to."
Well, a gentleman wasn't supposed to publicly cut a lady, so he's really being quite rude and it's no wonder that all of her friends are against him for it
This was really interesting. We still use "a nodding acquaintance" or "on nodding terms", at least here in Britain, which seems to be the modern equivalent of a bowing acquaintanceship.
Thank you so much for spending your energy to make this video - I really appreciate you! Also, I actually had one of these situations. I was walking with a good friend, M, when someone came up to talk to them. I thought it was very weird that M did not introduce us. As we walked away, M apologized for not introducing us, but 'that was not a good person she had just talked to, and she did not want them to know my name.'
I think my ONLY quibble with the ‘95 pride and prejudice was how Elizabeth introduced the gardeners to Darcy. It confused me that she highlighted her aunt, when it’s her uncle who is her blood relative.
I think it was because Mrs Gardiner was from the town of Lambton, 5 miles from Pemberley. And being a native of Derbyshire might make her more socially accessible to the Darcys?
@Toriolees Actually I think the opposite. Even though Darcy was being really courteous and she was embarrassed to be there, she kind of tested him because Aunt Gardiner was of lower social status, and she wanted to see how he reacted.
Oh, and might also be that introducing the woman first was polite, but I still think there was a bit of "let's see how he responds to that" vibe going on.
This was super interesting - I love the context this gives to my rereads of P&P! Only one thing, when I read the scene where Wickham and Mr Darcy meet each other, I didn't interpret it as Mr Darcy "cutting" Wickham. Jane Austen mentions that "Mr Darcy *just* deigned to return [the salute]". When one "deigns" to do something, it means that one decides to do it, so Mr Darcy actually did respond to Wickham's salute (but only just). If it said "he did _not_ deign to return [the salute]", then I'd interpret it as Mr Darcy "cutting" him
I instantly thought about Mrs. Elton wanting to introduce Emma to all her friends in Bath and Emma is like "That would be an embarrassment for me! I don't want to be associated with THAT persons friends"
I’m pretty sure Mrs Elton’s wealthy relatives feel the same about the people of Hertfield. I wonder how long they would have put off visiting before Mrs Elton realized that?
Thank you for making such a long luxurious video LOL. Love it!!! ETA: OMG. Thank you. I now understand that whole scene between Mr. Collins forcing to introduce himself to Mr. Darcy, why Elizabeth was like 'NOOOO'...and how the whole thing unfolded...no wonder Mr. Darcy's coldness was justified.
19:20 Mr. Collins's self-introduction It's another instance where Mr. Collins shows that he isn't familiar with the social rules appropriate to his status. It's an especially strong contrast with Mr. Darcy, whose formality is consistent with his coming from a _slightly_ higher standing than the Bennetts.
Mr Collins had had a university education, where he would have mixed exclusively with other elite young gentlemen for several years. I'm intrigued as to how he could graduate from that environment still not knowing the rules of upper class behaviour. Instead he seems overly reliant on books for guidance on social conduct ( e.g. the behaviour of "elegant young females" he has read about). He also frequently misreads/misses/can't predict other people's emotions - which is why he is blithely oblivious to Charlotte' Lucas's true feelings about him. I sometimes wonder if he might be neurodivergent .
@@a24-45 I think Mr. Collins does know the social etiquette but disregards it due to the fact that he's a clergyman and so have the privilege to socialize with everyone in society regardless of class, and the fact that Mr. Darcy is the nephew of Lady Catherine de Burg.
@@hippolyte90Yes, I agree that Mr Collins has convinced himself that he is in uniquely elevated position. Oddly enough, Mr Darcy and Mr Collins actually share some traits -- both are proud, both are snobby, both are noticeably more formal in their manners than their peers (such as Mr Bingley).
Great video! Lots I didn’t know, and it helps make sense of these Jane Austen books. Curious to know if these norms applied only to the educated/upper class or if they were for everyone. Curious about how they would have applied to Harriet and Robert Martin from “Emma.” Also interested in Ellie’s thoughts on the secret relationship in Elizabeth Gaskell’s Wives and Daughters.
I might be remembering this wrong since it's been a bit since I've read Emma, but I think Mrs. Goddard was acquainted with the Martins and made that introduction.
Thank you so much for this. I fall even deeper into Elizabeth and Darcy's world after watching your videos. Most of all I understand how much Darcy must have loved Elizabeth to have negotiated with Wickham and organize his marriage to Lydia. If acquaintanceships were important then how much more so would a possible in-law relationship be.
4:30 drawing back from introductions So _that's_ why the recommended form is to ask the higher-status person for leave to introduce the lower-status person. I used to think it was just a matter of precedence, but now I see it's a genuine request which might well be denied.
There is a scene in Persuasion that beautifully illustrates the thought that went into introductions. The scene where Elizabeth and Sir Walter are discussing whether or not to introduce Lady Dalrymple to Admiral and Mrs. Croft. They are worried that Lady Dalrymple will be offended by the introduction and decide not to attempt it and decide to "Let them find their own level".
I am old enough to remember my 3rd grade teacher teaching us how to formally and informally introduce people. Even to know who was the social superior and to say their name first.
That's why Catherine was so crestfallen that she knew no one at Bath in Horthanger Abbey. Oh I just realised, that's why it was so easy for Wickam to seduce Georgina, he literaly was the only man who wasn't a family member or a servant she could talk to! Since she wasn't out yet and he was a "childhood friend", still I believe it was pretty improper to spend time with a young girl without the knowledge of her gardien, Wickam and Mrs Young were really despicable
Hi! I'm actually outlining a novel set in the 1810s in Sweden and am currently looking for information about the social structures of the time. I know you are very knowledgeable about everything British in the regency area, do you know if it was similar in other European countries? Or can you recommend resources to research? Cheers
As someone who reads Pride and Prejudice variations, this might be one of my favorite of your videos. I felt you thoroughly explained things, reinforcing things where necessary, without belaboring any point. I especially liked your explanation of Mr. Darcy asking to introduce Georgiana to Elizabeth. I will be saving this so I can reference it again as it really adds dimension to what to us is a common occurrence. Thanks!
Is it possible for you to explore about balls? And how/who threw it and why....is it a normal thing to throw, comparison between 'village' or 'town' type of balls. Also, I have a question on 'calling on someone.' What's the etiquette on that, because we remember how in the beginning Mrs. Bennet was so insistent that Mr. Bennet go to call on Mr. Bingley.
This was a fascinating video 😮 Suppose that someone received the cut unjustly due to a misunderstanding, like false gossip. Was there any way to "appeal" to that person or did the person receiving the cut just have to live with it?
This is sooo interesting to learn about and has helped me understand PandP so much better. I always thought that Elizabeth's good opinion of Darcy was formed way too quickly but knowing that Darcy showed humbleness, respect, and appreciation for Lizzie's character and family through those introductions makes a lot of sense. Edit: and I always wondered why Darcy was so pissed at Collins in that scene xD. Cause I never saw what was so wrong about introducing urself to someone you esteem
Thank you for doing the research and providing such an understandable explanation of this subject. I've never seen this area so well explained before. You've given me a new appreciation and perspective on Austen's character interactions. I hadn't realised the full significance of introductions and acquaintances in regency society.
This concept of "the cut" is pretty scary for me. I'm faceblind!! What if an acquaintance I was fond of saw me and I didn't recognize them??? I mean obviously if they made eye contact and acknowledged me, I would do it back, but still 😭 Also this is really juicy stuff for one of my stories! My MLI is unfairly labeled a "scoundrel" because his much older brother, who raised him, is one. He would be ostracized! He's a good young man, kind and polite but the scandal his brother caused was very serious. His love interest is a naive and innocent girl who no one would ever introduce him to! I think their introduction might have to be a bit...more on the down low. Maybe an accident? Something that circumvents the rules
Thank you for your entertaining and enlightening videos. My goal is to re-read all the Austen books over the winter and I believe I will understand so much more due to your videos.
Back then, social connections were as important as wealth in high circles. That’s probably why it was so structured. Instead of meeting someone, imagine it as giving 20 quid to someone. You probably wouldn’t give 20 quid to a stranger, and if you did give 20 quid to a stranger and everyone knew about it and they went on to like, buy drugs or do something bad work the money it would be embarrassing to you
Hi Ellie! 👋🏻 My name is Erica. Nice to meet you. Now we've been introduced! 😁😊 Edit: do you know if this was the same in the States or were we slightly less rigid? 🤔
Speaking of Kitty and Lydia: why were they so obsessed w officers? Would their father be completely okay w them marrying an officer, was that really socially acceptable for a gentleman's daughter?
As the daughter of a military man, social status in this regard has never really changed! 'A uniform will get you into the best circles.' The military has it's own hierarchy of enlisted men and officers, based on responsibility level rather than birth, breeding, wealth or education, and therefore could bypass some of the hierarchy of civilian society. Many officers of course were already younger sons or otherwise attached to the upper classes, so the military was seen as a 'noble' profession alongside the church and the law. Your family would associate socially with the clergy, officers and family solicitor even when their families were beneath yours; you'd let your daughters dance with them. It was based on respecting the PROFESSION over the person. But to MARRY them, the officer would need to display the right level of birth/wealth: Mrs Bennet mentions being happy with the idea of one of the girls marrying 'a smart young colonel', like Colonel Forster married Lydia's friend. But Wickham wasn't even an officer and had no background; marriage SHOULD have been out of the question unless he became a war hero and got a field promotion and potentially rewarded with a title!
I would love to have you explain all about “the regiment”. How did people just buy a commission, and why? Was it for gentlemen or just anybody? Was it a non-heir occupation? What were the ranks? And so-forth? You great deep-dives!
It seems that there must’ve been some slightly different rules for work relationships, such as that between Mr. Knightley and Robert Martin, or lady and her maid. Odd to think of being dressed by someone you wouldn’t call an acquaintance!
Hi. First let me say how much I admire your insights and enjoy your analysis of the topics you select. I wonder if I might invite you and your follower’s views on the one relationship that I find most puzzling in Pride and Prejudice - that of Mr. Darcy and Mr. Bingley. They appear to have little or nothing in common yet for much of the novel they seem joined at the hip. The liberties Darcy takes to ensure that Bingley will not fall in love with Jane seem to go well beyond the loyalty of friends. Would such behavior have been acceptable in these circles? I have seen very little discussion of this relationship and would appreciate your views and those of others.
There are still some questions left after I read the book and watched the movie. Maybe someone here can explain. 1. Why was Darcy's home open to visitors in his absence? Was that a common thing in the Regency era? To give people a sightseeing tour no matter who came over? What was the reason behind this? Did they get some extra money for it like today? 2. Why did everyone become silent in the ball scene when Darcy, Bingley and his sister arrived? Sure they are rich and Darcy descents from an Earl, but there was also Sir William Lucas at the ball who is higher in rank than Darcy, isn't he, since he has a title of his own? No one gives him the same treatment. Or is it just because Sir William Lucas isn't a good looking single man?
Very interesting! I've often wondered why Sir Thomas was angry about being introduced to the Hon. Mr. Yates since Mr. Yates was the son of an earl. I'd have thought that would be a good connection but Sir Thomas would have rather avoided the acquaintance. Nothing is said about Mr. Yates having a bad reputation (that I recall) but perhaps this scene is meant to imply that he did. A nuance that Regency Era readers would have appreciated more than modern readers.
Enjoyed the part of a previous video about Mrs. Darcy using the best linens for her guests. It brought back old memories. My Grandmother's family were linen farmers in Poland and she learned the skill of pulling threads from woven linen to create patterns
I just had the whole Henry Tilney meets Mrs Allen and Catherine Morland scene in my head the whole time this was playing and him having to get the host to introduce each other. And then Caroline Bingley deciding she would like to hardly know Elizabeth Bennett
Ellie, could you explain the role of a Master of Ceremonies? This role of "introducer" I saw in the J.J. Field version of Northanger Abbey seems to be in a category of a professional introducer in a public ball setting. I would love to understand this better. I enjoyed this video!
I'd love to listen to a series where you read the Jane Austen books and explain things as you go, like a book explanation/analysis and audio book all rolled into one.
I can't imagine the work you put into these videos. It's so helpful, the stories make so much more sense knowing these social rules. I wonder if people that live in England/Britain today are more familiar with these old etiquettes rules, either through heritage or from watching movies and reading books. The people that make the movies must know, since they know how to show it. Anyway, I'm babbling. Thanks for the great content!
I think the remnants of these rules still apply in Britain. Just walking up to a stranger in a bar (or pub) and introducing oneself, as mentioned in the video, would be a definite no-no - at least amongst the middle classes. Also, the junior person is usually introduced to the senior one, though these days that's more likely to be senior in age, or position at work, say, than social rank. Amongst the aristocracy, the rules are pretty much still in full sway.
Okay, so I have a quick question re: Introduction Algebra - does status trump gender in the who gets introduced to whom? Or is it the other way around? Does the degree of status difference matter?
Modern example of the cut: Harry and Megan at the church wedding- they arrived late on purpose. There is video of them waiting at the door afterwards, it seemed like someone had been assigned to stand with them as they waited for their car to arrive. Lots of booing from the crowd as they descended the stairs- because the crowd didn’t have to restrain themselves.
Hi Ellie! Wow, you looked great during this video! You gave a wonderful presentation too. I always enjoy your P&P videos. Please take care of yourself and remember to have fun. I hope your mother is doing well. Keep being awesome!
I love those videos! ❤ I listen to Jane Austen audiobooks to fall asleep every night and every time when I learn something new from you, it adds a new layer to the books 😊
While I consider a lot of this snobbish and overly complex, there ia a part of me thinking what a relief it would be to understand the rules and have someone carefully introduce me, but I am an indepenent woman, and being a bit socially awkward still existed then.
As a true lover of Jane Austin's books, in this case, "Pride and Prejudice", I have loved the 1995 BBC production since it came out because it brought the book to life on the screen perfectly for me. I went to see the 2005 version of "Pride and Prejudice" and could not even recognize Jane's book in it. It actually made me mad, which is sort of funny and just goes to show how much I love her book. I have read all of Jane Austin's books and been charmed by each one. "Sense and Sensibility" was well done on the screen with Emma Thompson, Kate Winslet and the great Gemma Jones, etc., also done in 1995. Thank you for your great videos, Ms. Dashwood.❤(Your name, too, gives me a memory and a smile). Interestingly, born in 1948 in America, I was taught to always introduce the younger to the elder person as a sign of respect. I didn't realize this came from my ancestral homeland, England.😊
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As an avid reader of classic novels, I got a little bit of understanding about the social rules of the time. But nothing compares to the in-depth of your videos! Thank you so much for explaining the details. Now I love Mr. Darcy even more! Such respect for Lizzy!! 😍
Aw, I’m so glad you enjoyed it!!! 😊💕 And there are so many reasons to love Mr Darcy!
I was hoping Ellie would mention the incident where Lady Catherine visits Lizzie. This video ust changed my understanding of that scene, since I always thought it was a mark of Lizzie's shock that she needed to be reminded to introduce her mother! But obviously it was more of a sign of rudeness of Lady Catherine that she didn't even ask for an introduction until well after barging into Mrs Bennet's home!
Yes, good point! I always interpreted it the same way, but now I'm wondering.
I just started reading Pride and Prejudice and this was helpful! Thank you ❤
Aw, I’m so glad! And that’s amazing that you just started reading Pride and Prejudice!!!
Thank you for returning to be back in literary & historical
action!!
For future videos, could you
compare
1) England’s differ et n’y classes in relation to same social situations (other classes more loosely followed economic & social ideas & behaviors.
2) Similarly,for other contemporary societies
A) Rest of W Europe
B.)!E Europe
C) US &! Canada
E) Mexico, C & S America in
cluding Caribbean
F) Philippines, Cape Verde, Seychelles, Mauritius, etc.
Most likely,,all those societies
followed common mores, so research & presentation could
be reduced, due to your great
work on Regency England.
Thank you again.Kansa hamnida.
What about Korea in same period?
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻so happy to see this kind of content back on your channel!! 🤟🏻
I’d like to know what rules applied when dealing with tradespeople. For example if someone is looking for a new tailor or wants to ask a land agent some questions about an estate.
This was super interesting. Did similar rules apply between members of the working class? Or were things more relaxed?
I’m glad I didn’t live in the regency- I was HORRIBLE at this stuff in middle school!
Very well done!
My life as a socially inept person would be more easy with this rule, I would be like: do you want to meet him/her...No thanks
What about the introduction that happens in "the rooms" at Bath by some sort of serimonial person? Where does that fitt inn?
So in light of this, what do you all think about the introduction of Mr. Tilney to Miss Morland in Northanger Abbey? :D
They were introduced by a master of ceremonies, which was also part of the "rules."
I adopted two guinea pigs a couple of weeks ago, and decided to call them Darcy and Bingley. They are polite gentleman, have amazing side burns and yes fellow ladies they do have 10,000 poos a year.
Should have as many likes 😂
That's cute😊
Lol
You honestly couldn’t have picked better names, that’s awesome
Wait a sec, they should have at least 15,000 poos a year between the two of them 😂
It is interesting that nowadays if you walk down the street with a friend and meet another friend it is rude to NOT introduce them.
Right?! Things change so much.
It might be misanthropic of me, but as a person with very high anxiety (not social anxiety, but anxiety about everything and everyone) I’m perfectly comfortable telling my friends that they can skip introducing me to an acquaintance if we pass one one the street. Maybe I should have been born a lady 😂😂
The rise of egalitarianism?
(A good thing, imo)
I think it's really just an extension of this, though. If you don't introduce them then you're basically saying you think one of them isn't good enough to be introduced to the other...that the other person would be burdened by having to know them. So the change isn't in introductions, the change is in our (un)willingness to tell people they're not good enough.
@@kray3883 In modern day Ukraine and Russia being the first to introduce yourself and greet the other person is a sign of deference actually. A person of lower status makes the first move. To not initiate contact is a sign of disrespect or challenge to authority.
I kept thinking of the line from And Then There Were None: "We tell the story in Ireland about the two Englishmen who were cast away on a desert island for three years and never spoke to each other, because they hadn't been introduced."
that line had me in stitches.
Bowing acquaintance: The equivalent of knowing someone from work or school.
Social Calls: Becoming friends on social media and/or texting, phone calls, etc.
Dinner/Party: Hanging out
I love the modern translation! 🔥
And cutting is ghosting 🙃
I don't know about the social media thing. I would consider someone that I am friends with on FaceBook, but we've never really DMed each other to be a "bowing acquaintance." DMing each other on a regular basis puts you in the "social calls" category.
@@aeonarinmore like cancelled, since it has to be public
Oh is this why Mr Collins received such a reaction for tapping Darcy on the arm to introduce himself?
I always thought that Mr Darcy, introducing Elizabeth to his sister, was kind of getting his sister to meet and hopefully approve of Elizabeth. He had already decided to renew his attentions to her
Yes. I think it was also a way of getting Elizabeth to see him in a better light. Georgiana idolized him and he doted on her. He probably knew Georgiana would to make his sensitivity more apparent.
@@Aelffwynn because he didn't have a cat .....
For me it has always seemed like a way to get some closer connection to Elizabeth via his sister. And now, knowing the meaning in actually asking her for permission to do so, I see no reason for changing my opinion.
Great video. I am thinking about Emma not wanting to acknowledge the farmer who courted her friend and about lady Catherine refusing to be introduced to the Bennets despite being on their door step at some weird early hour. Super cool!! Plus how Lucy Steele got herself introduced to the right people to score an invitation to the right neighbourhood to meet Eleanor. Hmmmmmm!!!
One question. Mr Bennet called on Mr Bingley even without an introduction as he was a new neighbor. Was this an exception to the rule? Were there social obligations like someone moving into the neighborhood which could excuse the lack of a mutual acquaintance?
Exactly! There were special rules about calling on new families that moved to the neighborhood. I cover more about social call etiquette in this video: How Did the Victorians Social Network? Calling Card and Paying Calls Etiquette 101
ruclips.net/video/QtlpjS_nGpU/видео.html
Thanks! I had the same question😊
It would have helped if I read the comments before posting my own comment where I raised this question as well. At least it'll help the algorithm. 😂
He probably just left his card, which is a sort of request to be acquainted without putting anybody on the spot or making them feel obliged to accept it.
@@mouseketeery Wouldn’t it be rather rude though to leave a card if the person is at home and willing to receive visitors? Chapter 2 did say he visited so I assume he actually… went to Netherfield? Also in Chapter 3, Mr Bingley is said to have returned the call by spending 10 minutes with Mr Bennet in the library. I assume he wouldn’t have done that if Mr Bennet merely left a card.
28:30 "a salutation that Mr. Darcy just deigned to return."
That doesn't sound like a cut. That sounds like Mr. Darcy returned the greeting. I checked in the dictionary in case I misunderstood "deign", but it's "do something that one considers to be beneath one's dignity", so it's the _mot juste._
Yeah her reading and interpretation of that line made me wonder if maybe she doesn't know what the phrase "deign to" means 😬
The scene is definitely an illustration of how coldly Mr Darcy feels towards Mr Wickham, but it's not an example of cutting.
Perhaps got it mixed up with "disdained"?
In Persuasion, Elizabeth Elliot goes back and forth on this in her acquaintanceship with Captain Wentworth. On the day that he first comes to Bath and walks into Mollonds, Anne Elliot steps up to acknowledge him and they chat. Captain Wentworth sees Elizabeth and she sees him, but Elizabeth does not acknowledge Captain Wentworth, in spite of his knowing her sisters well, his sister is renting their house, and their having been introduced to each other in the year 1806. Anne feels that Elizabeth is being unreasonably rude. Then, at the concert, when Anne again steps forward to meet Captain Wentworth as he is coming in, Sir Walter and Elizabeth make a slight acknowledgement of him. Once Lady Dalrymple sees Captain Wentworth and thinks that he is good-looking, then Elizabeth and Sir Walter take a much greater interest in becoming closer acquainted to Captain Wentworth because he'd look well walking around in her drawing room. When next she sees him, she speaks to him more than once and makes a particular effort to give him one of her cards. So in the course of about two days, Elizabeth goes from cutting Captain Wentworth to giving him her card and inviting him to come call on the family for the evening party. He is clearly annoyed by her previous rudeness and her change of conduct without any sort of apology.
Modern day ho
Moral of the story: “And I suppose one can’t be introduced in a ballroom?”
Thank you for a fascinating, detailed video!
And for a bit of humor... There's a point in Alice Through the Looking-Glass (the book) when Alice is made a Queen and there's a big dinner party. Alice is introduced to the leg of mutton, and when she offers to carve it for serving, is told that "It isn't etiquette to cut anyone you've been introduced to."
When Marianne sees Willoughby in the ball, he tries to cut her, isn't it? And she insists on talking to him, poor thing. I love your videos!"❤
Well, a gentleman wasn't supposed to publicly cut a lady, so he's really being quite rude and it's no wonder that all of her friends are against him for it
This was really interesting. We still use "a nodding acquaintance" or "on nodding terms", at least here in Britain, which seems to be the modern equivalent of a bowing acquaintanceship.
We also still use the phrase-
“Please allow me to introduce _____”
Now I'm wondering if "passing acquaintance" is related
Thank you so much for spending your energy to make this video - I really appreciate you! Also, I actually had one of these situations. I was walking with a good friend, M, when someone came up to talk to them. I thought it was very weird that M did not introduce us. As we walked away, M apologized for not introducing us, but 'that was not a good person she had just talked to, and she did not want them to know my name.'
Finally, Ellie has made the video she really, really wanted to make.
😂 I like to think everyone is equally obsessed with meeting Mr. Darcy.
It shows 😅 and we live it
I think my ONLY quibble with the ‘95 pride and prejudice was how Elizabeth introduced the gardeners to Darcy. It confused me that she highlighted her aunt, when it’s her uncle who is her blood relative.
I think it was because Mrs Gardiner was from the town of Lambton, 5 miles from Pemberley. And being a native of Derbyshire might make her more socially accessible to the Darcys?
@Toriolees Actually I think the opposite. Even though Darcy was being really courteous and she was embarrassed to be there, she kind of tested him because Aunt Gardiner was of lower social status, and she wanted to see how he reacted.
Oh, and might also be that introducing the woman first was polite, but I still think there was a bit of "let's see how he responds to that" vibe going on.
@annbsirius1703 I agree. She was watching him for hints of snobbery. He passed the test.
Ladies first!
This was super interesting - I love the context this gives to my rereads of P&P!
Only one thing, when I read the scene where Wickham and Mr Darcy meet each other, I didn't interpret it as Mr Darcy "cutting" Wickham.
Jane Austen mentions that "Mr Darcy *just* deigned to return [the salute]". When one "deigns" to do something, it means that one decides to do it, so Mr Darcy actually did respond to Wickham's salute (but only just).
If it said "he did _not_ deign to return [the salute]", then I'd interpret it as Mr Darcy "cutting" him
I instantly thought about Mrs. Elton wanting to introduce Emma to all her friends in Bath and Emma is like "That would be an embarrassment for me! I don't want to be associated with THAT persons friends"
I’m pretty sure Mrs Elton’s wealthy relatives feel the same about the people of Hertfield. I wonder how long they would have put off visiting before Mrs Elton realized that?
Hmm, do my homework, or learn about meeting people in the past? Well, it is educational
Excellent priorities. 🔥
Thank you for making such a long luxurious video LOL. Love it!!! ETA: OMG. Thank you. I now understand that whole scene between Mr. Collins forcing to introduce himself to Mr. Darcy, why Elizabeth was like 'NOOOO'...and how the whole thing unfolded...no wonder Mr. Darcy's coldness was justified.
What a gorgeous cat! He steals the show.
The cat is the real main point of this video. 🐈⬛🔥😂
Thanks for your Masterclasses!!! No one should read Austen without watching your videos! Have you considered talking about the Brontës?
I agree! If you haven't already, you should look at Dr Octavia Cox's videos. She discusses literature through the lens of historical context, too.
The inappropriate introduction reluctance is so apparent when lady Catherine visits Elizabeth at longbourne.
AHHH!!! Thanks so much for the long video! You're my favorite RUclipsr and have gotten me back into history content :))
Ahhh! Thank you so much! And I'm so glad you enjoy the videos!!!! 😃☺️💕
19:20 Mr. Collins's self-introduction
It's another instance where Mr. Collins shows that he isn't familiar with the social rules appropriate to his status. It's an especially strong contrast with Mr. Darcy, whose formality is consistent with his coming from a _slightly_ higher standing than the Bennetts.
Mr Collins had had a university education, where he would have mixed exclusively with other elite young gentlemen for several years. I'm intrigued as to how he could graduate from that environment still not knowing the rules of upper class behaviour. Instead he seems overly reliant on books for guidance on social conduct ( e.g. the behaviour of "elegant young females" he has read about). He also frequently misreads/misses/can't predict other people's emotions - which is why he is blithely oblivious to Charlotte' Lucas's true feelings about him. I sometimes wonder if he might be neurodivergent .
@@a24-45 I think Mr. Collins does know the social etiquette but disregards it due to the fact that he's a clergyman and so have the privilege to socialize with everyone in society regardless of class, and the fact that Mr. Darcy is the nephew of Lady Catherine de Burg.
@@hippolyte90Yes, I agree that Mr Collins has convinced himself that he is in uniquely elevated position. Oddly enough, Mr Darcy and Mr Collins actually share some traits -- both are proud, both are snobby, both are noticeably more formal in their manners than their peers (such as Mr Bingley).
@@a24-45 Never thought about Mr. Darcy and Mr. Collins being alike, but you're right! And they both propose to Elizabeth and fail miserably.
Great video! Lots I didn’t know, and it helps make sense of these Jane Austen books. Curious to know if these norms applied only to the educated/upper class or if they were for everyone. Curious about how they would have applied to Harriet and Robert Martin from “Emma.” Also interested in Ellie’s thoughts on the secret relationship in Elizabeth Gaskell’s Wives and Daughters.
I might be remembering this wrong since it's been a bit since I've read Emma, but I think Mrs. Goddard was acquainted with the Martins and made that introduction.
Yay! More Ellie videos :) Glad to see you back with the historical ones 🙂
Thank you so much for this. I fall even deeper into Elizabeth and Darcy's world after watching your videos. Most of all I understand how much Darcy must have loved Elizabeth to have negotiated with Wickham and organize his marriage to Lydia. If acquaintanceships were important then how much more so would a possible in-law relationship be.
4:30 drawing back from introductions
So _that's_ why the recommended form is to ask the higher-status person for leave to introduce the lower-status person. I used to think it was just a matter of precedence, but now I see it's a genuine request which might well be denied.
Anyone else get the feeling that this is just the live-action version of managing Facebook friends? The cut direct = unfriend...
Great video! A follow-up about Ballroom etiquette and introduction would be appreciated 😊
There is a scene in Persuasion that beautifully illustrates the thought that went into introductions. The scene where Elizabeth and Sir Walter are discussing whether or not to introduce Lady Dalrymple to Admiral and Mrs. Croft. They are worried that Lady Dalrymple will be offended by the introduction and decide not to attempt it and decide to "Let them find their own level".
I am old enough to remember my 3rd grade teacher teaching us how to formally and informally introduce people. Even to know who was the social superior and to say their name first.
Thank you for all the research that went into this video Ellie! This adds so much more dimension to actions in the films.
Thank you for all the time and energy you put in this video!! A half hour long! You must have been doing a lot of research for this❤
Thank you so much! That means a lot. I really, really appreciate it! ❤️
That's why Catherine was so crestfallen that she knew no one at Bath in Horthanger Abbey.
Oh I just realised, that's why it was so easy for Wickam to seduce Georgina, he literaly was the only man who wasn't a family member or a servant she could talk to!
Since she wasn't out yet and he was a "childhood friend", still I believe it was pretty improper to spend time with a young girl without the knowledge of her gardien, Wickam and Mrs Young were really despicable
Hi! I'm actually outlining a novel set in the 1810s in Sweden and am currently looking for information about the social structures of the time. I know you are very knowledgeable about everything British in the regency area, do you know if it was similar in other European countries? Or can you recommend resources to research? Cheers
I’m surprised you didn’t cite Tilney seeking his introduction to Catherine and Mrs. Allen in the pump room.
As someone who reads Pride and Prejudice variations, this might be one of my favorite of your videos. I felt you thoroughly explained things, reinforcing things where necessary, without belaboring any point. I especially liked your explanation of Mr. Darcy asking to introduce Georgiana to Elizabeth.
I will be saving this so I can reference it again as it really adds dimension to what to us is a common occurrence. Thanks!
Is it possible for you to explore about balls? And how/who threw it and why....is it a normal thing to throw, comparison between 'village' or 'town' type of balls. Also, I have a question on 'calling on someone.' What's the etiquette on that, because we remember how in the beginning Mrs. Bennet was so insistent that Mr. Bennet go to call on Mr. Bingley.
This was a fascinating video 😮
Suppose that someone received the cut unjustly due to a misunderstanding, like false gossip. Was there any way to "appeal" to that person or did the person receiving the cut just have to live with it?
I have always wondered why Katherine Moreland never introduced the Tilneys to the Thorpes. Now I know.
I love the way you talk about history, it just addictive
Aw, thank you! I’m so glad you’re enjoying it!
Your regency etiquette guides are invaluable to the lady-authoress who wishes to accurately depict the period. :)
This is sooo interesting to learn about and has helped me understand PandP so much better. I always thought that Elizabeth's good opinion of Darcy was formed way too quickly but knowing that Darcy showed humbleness, respect, and appreciation for Lizzie's character and family through those introductions makes a lot of sense.
Edit: and I always wondered why Darcy was so pissed at Collins in that scene xD. Cause I never saw what was so wrong about introducing urself to someone you esteem
No wonder being presented at court was such a huge deal!
Excellent video Ellie. You did a phenomenal job explaining minutiae that is quite foreign to many modern people. This is you at your best.
As usual, the video is wonderfully and professionally done. I learned so much. Thank you!
Thank you for doing the research and providing such an understandable explanation of this subject. I've never seen this area so well explained before. You've given me a new appreciation and perspective on Austen's character interactions. I hadn't realised the full significance of introductions and acquaintances in regency society.
This concept of "the cut" is pretty scary for me. I'm faceblind!! What if an acquaintance I was fond of saw me and I didn't recognize them??? I mean obviously if they made eye contact and acknowledged me, I would do it back, but still 😭
Also this is really juicy stuff for one of my stories! My MLI is unfairly labeled a "scoundrel" because his much older brother, who raised him, is one. He would be ostracized! He's a good young man, kind and polite but the scandal his brother caused was very serious. His love interest is a naive and innocent girl who no one would ever introduce him to!
I think their introduction might have to be a bit...more on the down low. Maybe an accident? Something that circumvents the rules
A new debutante who wanted to take an adult role and introduce a new friend to a misinderstood relative?
@@rawilliams5881 an interesting idea! I'll consider that for sure!
Thank you for your entertaining and enlightening videos. My goal is to re-read all the Austen books over the winter and I believe I will understand so much more due to your videos.
Back then, social connections were as important as wealth in high circles. That’s probably why it was so structured. Instead of meeting someone, imagine it as giving 20 quid to someone. You probably wouldn’t give 20 quid to a stranger, and if you did give 20 quid to a stranger and everyone knew about it and they went on to like, buy drugs or do something bad work the money it would be embarrassing to you
Hi Ellie! 👋🏻
My name is Erica. Nice to meet you.
Now we've been introduced! 😁😊
Edit: do you know if this was the same in the States or were we slightly less rigid? 🤔
Wow - this is going to bring a new level of understanding to my regency reading! So helpful! Thanks Ellie! ✨
Speaking of Kitty and Lydia: why were they so obsessed w officers? Would their father be completely okay w them marrying an officer, was that really socially acceptable for a gentleman's daughter?
As the daughter of a military man, social status in this regard has never really changed! 'A uniform will get you into the best circles.' The military has it's own hierarchy of enlisted men and officers, based on responsibility level rather than birth, breeding, wealth or education, and therefore could bypass some of the hierarchy of civilian society. Many officers of course were already younger sons or otherwise attached to the upper classes, so the military was seen as a 'noble' profession alongside the church and the law. Your family would associate socially with the clergy, officers and family solicitor even when their families were beneath yours; you'd let your daughters dance with them. It was based on respecting the PROFESSION over the person. But to MARRY them, the officer would need to display the right level of birth/wealth: Mrs Bennet mentions being happy with the idea of one of the girls marrying 'a smart young colonel', like Colonel Forster married Lydia's friend. But Wickham wasn't even an officer and had no background; marriage SHOULD have been out of the question unless he became a war hero and got a field promotion and potentially rewarded with a title!
I would love to have you explain all about “the regiment”. How did people just buy a commission, and why? Was it for gentlemen or just anybody? Was it a non-heir occupation? What were the ranks? And so-forth? You great deep-dives!
It seems that there must’ve been some slightly different rules for work relationships, such as that between Mr. Knightley and Robert Martin, or lady and her maid. Odd to think of being dressed by someone you wouldn’t call an acquaintance!
Hi. First let me say how much I admire your insights and enjoy your analysis of the topics you select. I wonder if I might invite you and your follower’s views on the one relationship that I find most puzzling in Pride and Prejudice - that of Mr. Darcy and Mr. Bingley. They appear to have little or nothing in common yet for much of the novel they seem joined at the hip. The liberties Darcy takes to ensure that Bingley will not fall in love with Jane seem to go well beyond the loyalty of friends. Would such behavior have been acceptable in these circles? I have seen very little discussion of this relationship and would appreciate your views and those of others.
Too bad people today are not as careful of who we become acquainted with and friends with in today's society
This vid was so interesting! I really enjoyed it. Could you talk about how things were handled at ballrooms in a part 2?
Thank you for the video! 😊
Aw, thank you for watching! 😃
I always wondered how Mr Bennet knew Mr Darcy and Mr Bingley to be able to introduce his daughters to them... (I haven't read the books yet)
My mom and I typically groan whenever we see Mr. Collins on screen so it's awesome to have a NEW reason to hate on Mr. Collins 🤣
There are still some questions left after I read the book and watched the movie. Maybe someone here can explain.
1. Why was Darcy's home open to visitors in his absence? Was that a common thing in the Regency era? To give people a sightseeing tour no matter who came over? What was the reason behind this? Did they get some extra money for it like today?
2. Why did everyone become silent in the ball scene when Darcy, Bingley and his sister arrived? Sure they are rich and Darcy descents from an Earl, but there was also Sir William Lucas at the ball who is higher in rank than Darcy, isn't he, since he has a title of his own? No one gives him the same treatment. Or is it just because Sir William Lucas isn't a good looking single man?
Very interesting! I've often wondered why Sir Thomas was angry about being introduced to the Hon. Mr. Yates since Mr. Yates was the son of an earl. I'd have thought that would be a good connection but Sir Thomas would have rather avoided the acquaintance. Nothing is said about Mr. Yates having a bad reputation (that I recall) but perhaps this scene is meant to imply that he did. A nuance that Regency Era readers would have appreciated more than modern readers.
Enjoyed the part of a previous video about Mrs. Darcy using the best linens for her guests. It brought back old memories. My Grandmother's family were linen farmers in Poland and she learned the skill of pulling threads from woven linen to create patterns
the people want the ballroom introductions video (please)!!!
I just had the whole Henry Tilney meets Mrs Allen and Catherine Morland scene in my head the whole time this was playing and him having to get the host to introduce each other. And then Caroline Bingley deciding she would like to hardly know Elizabeth Bennett
Ellie, could you explain the role of a Master of Ceremonies? This role of "introducer" I saw in the J.J. Field version of Northanger Abbey seems to be in a category of a professional introducer in a public ball setting. I would love to understand this better. I enjoyed this video!
This was a great video! Thanks for such a clear, fun explanation🙂
I'd love to listen to a series where you read the Jane Austen books and explain things as you go, like a book explanation/analysis and audio book all rolled into one.
I can't imagine the work you put into these videos. It's so helpful, the stories make so much more sense knowing these social rules. I wonder if people that live in England/Britain today are more familiar with these old etiquettes rules, either through heritage or from watching movies and reading books. The people that make the movies must know, since they know how to show it. Anyway, I'm babbling. Thanks for the great content!
I think the remnants of these rules still apply in Britain. Just walking up to a stranger in a bar (or pub) and introducing oneself, as mentioned in the video, would be a definite no-no - at least amongst the middle classes. Also, the junior person is usually introduced to the senior one, though these days that's more likely to be senior in age, or position at work, say, than social rank. Amongst the aristocracy, the rules are pretty much still in full sway.
Okay, so I have a quick question re: Introduction Algebra - does status trump gender in the who gets introduced to whom? Or is it the other way around? Does the degree of status difference matter?
Usually, yes. But sometimes 'marriage intentions' could complicate it further!
Finally! What a pleasure to watch a new video from you on the Regency era, Ellie. Thanks for sharing
Super cute top hat. Very enjoyable video. THANK YOU!
I’m starting to understand why Mr. Darcy doesn’t like balls 😂
😂😂
This video was so informative! It’s definitely going to help me navigate social interactions in books of this era!
Modern example of the cut:
Harry and Megan at the church wedding- they arrived late on purpose. There is video of them waiting at the door afterwards, it seemed like someone had been assigned to stand with them as they waited for their car to arrive. Lots of booing from the crowd as they descended the stairs- because the crowd didn’t have to restrain themselves.
Hi Ellie! Wow, you looked great during this video! You gave a wonderful presentation too. I always enjoy your P&P videos. Please take care of yourself and remember to have fun. I hope your mother is doing well. Keep being awesome!
I love those videos! ❤ I listen to Jane Austen audiobooks to fall asleep every night and every time when I learn something new from you, it adds a new layer to the books 😊
So now I wonder if it is on Mr. Denny for Lydia getting tangled up with Wickham? He is the one responsible for introducing Wickham to the Bennets.
While I consider a lot of this snobbish and overly complex, there ia a part of me thinking what a relief it would be to understand the rules and have someone carefully introduce me, but I am an indepenent woman, and being a bit socially awkward still existed then.
As a true lover of Jane Austin's books, in this case, "Pride and Prejudice", I have loved the 1995 BBC production since it came out because it brought the book to life on the screen perfectly for me. I went to see the 2005 version of "Pride and Prejudice" and could not even recognize Jane's book in it. It actually made me mad, which is sort of funny and just goes to show how much I love her book. I have read all of Jane Austin's books and been charmed by each one. "Sense and Sensibility" was well done on the screen with Emma Thompson, Kate Winslet and the great Gemma Jones, etc., also done in 1995.
Thank you for your great videos, Ms. Dashwood.❤(Your name, too, gives me a memory and a smile).
Interestingly, born in 1948 in America, I was taught to always introduce the younger to the elder person as a sign of respect. I didn't realize this came from my ancestral homeland, England.😊
Great video!!!!! I learned a lot.
Aw, I’m so glad you enjoyed it! 😃😊💕
Happy Friday, Ellie!😊😎☀💙💙💙💙💙💙🌷💖💖💖💖💖💖🎇👍.
As someone who is not good at small talk, I like the structured responses they had for conversation.