What about the Apache? Now that it’s available. It’ll be the most likely air support available and sent. Though if too similar to Heuys then no problems.
Good to see that Cap' s voice is turning back to normal. His voice was deep and dark as a Sith Lord. It seems that the journey to the Dark Side of the Force is over. Kidding aside, wish you a full recovery, Cap.
@@grimreapers Good to see puberty finally hit.. ;) Love the series btw. New viewer. Care to take on a challenge? The Swedish airforce Viggens (AJ37) locked onto the sr71 several times when the speedbird did its baltic run. Question is.. could we have shot it down? Could the Gripen?
Agreed. Precision targeting, agile, can loiter all over the battlefield. That 30 mm chain cannon and hellfire missiles strikes would make short work of the Somali footmen or technicals while not minimizing both collateral damage and friendly fire incidents.
@@absolutezero6423 The Blackhawks were shot down when they were orbiting. Also, the RPGs were aimed at tail rotors. As far as I know, both Blackhawk and Apache are supposed to withstand strikes of 12.7mm fire on the tail rotor mechanisms. Army doctrine for Apaches generally has them hover instead of strafe like Marine Cobras. The Apaches have better armor around the cockpit as I understand.
I was there and air support was not an option for most of the battle. There were times we were in contact with Little Birds but we couldn't call them in even though they want to try it. It was just that close. Like Cap said, there were many times it was danger close, or worse.
Yeah, been on the receiving end of a DC strafe and that was scary in a relatively wide open area where the pilot could see the positions. Never would want to see it tried in an area like Mog.
@@nicolivoldkif9096 I saw a vid a few tears ago of an Air Force JTAC describing his experience in a large Iraqi city similar to the Mogadishu environment. His unit was surrounded and trapped under heavy, close fire. Most of his unit including himself were wounded. The closest enemy was only 10 meters away behind a brick wall actively shooting at his position. He marked it with a laser and called for a strafe run on it but the A-10 pilot said it was too close and couldn't comply. The JTAC explained that if it wasn't neutralized they would be overrun and pleaded for the strafe. The A-10 pilot radioed higher ups and explained the situation. With much resistance he finally got permission. He told the JTAC to cover themselves the best they could and was rolling in. His strafe was accurate and effective not causing any friendly casualties. The JTAC then had him make more strafing runs until the other threats were neutralized. He had nothing but praise and admiration for the A-10 pilots. I would have included a link to the interview but RUclips has removed it because it contains "hate and/or violence" and does not conform to their community standards.
A few AC-130 gunships and forward air controllers would have made the difference. NOT the A-10. In this scenario, you're looking at close quarters combat and you need more precision weapons.
If I remember correctly according to a book I read the two Black Hawks were to provide fire support when needed. Black Hawks are troop carriers but are often equipped with two door guns manned by two of the crew. The two door guns are either .50 cals, mini guns, or some other GPMG like M-60’s. A third one was up doing command and control for all the forces involved.
I think a lot of the improved score with the War Birds is due to having had a practice run with the A-10s. The pilots got to see the target environment and where the enemy were on the first run, and so did better on their second go even though their aircraft were different.
During the actual battle, the UH 60's were armed with miniguns and able to lay down suppressive fire. May have to come back once that is updated for the UH 60 or just swap out with Hueys for now. AH 64 would have worked much better than either A 10 or war birds... but we still have to wait for that. Could try the hind as a stand in.? I would like to see a go with Hueys, Hinds and use some armor!
+{UCVlfMyIlcHpSMXjjZ9xGbbQ} *The Kamov-50 module is available in Eagle Dynamics DCS:World, should Cap decide to revisit the Battles of Mogadishu.* Introduced in the DCS:Black Shark spinoff. The main issue this coaxial-rotor type would be aiming the fixed Grjazev-Shipunov-30-1 without excessive drift in firing position. Don't know if grapeshot night-tracer, the most appropriate antipersonnel round, is available for the GSh-30; impact-fuzed HE night-tracer is a reliable fallback.
@@rickb1973 That's awesome man, I live near Camp Hale where the 10th used to train. It's a historical site now and all the buildings are gone, but always cool to go read the plaques.
@@MOTO809 Cool, I've always wanted to visit there. I've read all about it in the unit's history. That was back when they had world class mountaineers and Olympic skiers in the 10th. The funny thing is, there's not a mountain in sight at Ft. Drum NY, where most of the Division is now and where I was stationed back in the early 90's.
The best American warbird for this would probably be the P38 which you may not have in game.. The guns did not have to converge since they were in the nose. If you were worried about collateral damage the runs could be done with just the 4 fifty cal without the cannons.
Love the vid GR, CAS in urban envirement is a pain in the neck! think especially with TACP/JTAC on the ground, guys in Ramadi, Baghdad and Falluja had minuts to find the bad guy and direct air support on it
The psychological impact of having air cover from A10s should not be underestimated. Even with just a few kills in the open streets would have made a lot of fighters that day question their motivations.
I would like to see this done again, with a couple changes if possible - 1: Lower buildings - looking at satellite pictures of the area, during the battle, it seems like there are way taller buildings in your battlefield here than at the actual crash site, which obstructs the view and aim, which could have helped in the A-10 runs. 2: Change the scenario of air support for the troops moving in, to protecting the crash sites. The street to street engagements, unless were talking throwing caution to the wind on gun runs with civilian casualties, are at best a headache, and trying to not hit your guys at the same time. Defending the crash sites it's more fixed and just running down streets to keep the mob off them till help arrives. Though I don't think the game can simulate the psychological effects the strafing would have.
It was a moving fight up until the strike force reached crash #1 then the infantry was forced to dig in. The convoys on the other hand were definitely moving fights. The fight at crash site #2 could have benefited from CAS because the sheer number of attackers forced all survivors to fight for their lives. The pilot for the helicopter of crash #2 was the only survivor and the two Delta operators who fast roped in to protect the site were killed. The movie Black Hawk Down does a good job portraying the events.
I've never listened to the briefings in the videos until I heard my callsign @6:34. Maybe when the 3rd series of the Funday Campaign kicks off we should have Elk-- Centurian say the word "Pickle" every few minutes. Edit: After watching the video I saw a few things the A-10 had going for it: The gun-pack(?) keeps the plan stable for "precision" work, the higher-velocity gun seemed to require less windage adjustment, it needs ~2 lucky shots from an AK to bring it down rather than one in a warbird, it could keep station longer and overnight for a 15-hour battle (not in simulation). Obviously, you're right though. It's way too much for this scenario. If the GAU could be dialed back to 600rpm rather than 6000, if they made a hollow-point or thump round for it, and it somehow had an even lower stall speed it *might* suit the task. I remember there were some who criticized the littlebirds using their miniguns on mixed crowds of belligerents and civilians.
Cap was a pure Jedi warrior, filled with light and joy. Then he went to the Dark Side for a while, where he got this deep and menacing voice. Now that he is back to the light side again, he still retains some of the dark side, this the slightly deep voice
like the movie portrayed there was supposed to be ac130's supporting , it would have been an entirely different battle with those over head. the mission was much better suited for the gunship than the a-10, so try the ac-130 on this one
@@mikesmith-wk7vy I am aware of the request for Gunships but the "splash" damage would have been far worse than the A-10. Helicopter gunships were a closer reality that most people forget about when they hear "gunship" . People generally think of the AC-130 gunships.
@@michaelsublet3283 i have, it was cute to watch the Bronco try to turn away , i was surprised the f16 went for guns and not an aim-9 but a small nation missiles are a big expense
I'd like to see this with an AC-130 since the commander of Task Force Ranger requested one for the mission and was denied by the politicians. Also great to hear Cap sounding human again!
I think that a decent aircraft to be tried in this scenario would be the F/A-18C Hornet. Nose mounted 20mm M61 gun (Not as brutal as a 30mm) But if there are any guns who are more accurate/precise, you would want to use them (which might mean that you would want a different aircraft) I also wonder, what if you tried something like an AH-64 Apache or AH-1Z attack helicopter with nothing but its gun?
Based on the parameters that you are operating under, I think that Apache or other helo gunship would have been the best option. I would like to see simulate that and try a AC130 gunship.
You're right the a-10 can be used danger close if you're careful enough but the engagements that happened goes far beyond danger close. There would have been more blue on blue than effective strikes
Glad your voice is better Cap! Great experiment! Maybe retry this with door gunners VS. attack helicopters? KA-50,/Hind, versus Huey door gunners to see which would be more effective (then do this again with only Apaches when the Apache is ready in game). Maybe helicopters would be more accurate with aim, but at the same time be more vulnerable to being shot down by the enemy.
Counter argument… the A-10 would have been incredibly effective… as a DETERRENT. The psychological effect of having that big bird doing overflights would have kept the crowds and militia more at bay, buying everyone on the ground time to do the job and get out. A-10 doesn’t have to wipe out the enemy forces. It needs to make them keep their heads down with some zoom passes and a few wisely placed BRRRTs, small bombs, or Hellfires.
Blaine yes and no..... yes it might have been a deterrent but if they took the opinion that it's to populated to use they might have called the Americnas bluff and assumed they would not have used it. so it's possible they could have been deterred or they could have called their bluff we'll never really know
@@TeenTeenFpv I don't think they had MANPADS. A relatively fast moving A-10 zooming in and out that you see for a few seconds would be much more difficult to hit with RPGs and technical mounted HMGs than an slow MH-60 with a steady orbit.
I get that black screen effect too. I'm not sure if it's a DCS thing or a track IR thing. I just pan my head to the left or right to get rid of it. It goes in and out and you have to pan your head every time. I have a 3080Ti, Ventus 3x by MSI.
Ah Cap, something that I forgot to mention is that there would be massive Civilian casualties no matter what. IIRC at some point the "Hostiles" even started using civilians as human shields... Yeah...
The best weapons systems that they didn’t have were armed up armor humvees and MRAPs. In that environment planes are too fast and helicopters too vulnerable. MRAPs, especially the ones with the RPG defeating steal fences on them and the internally controlled multiple weapon system (50 cal, 30 cal. 40mm grenades, optical and thermal) are designed for that exact environment. You should use combined arms and buddy up (driver and gunner) for this scenario in MRAPS and Bradley’s.
the problem with the RCWS is someone STILL has to stop the vehicle. Form an all round defence. And reload that gun without the turret access and gun shield. In a built up environment with multiple contacts. A 150 or even 300 round belt can disappear within minutes. In a prolonged contact some poor bastard has to step out in enemy territory without the support of the RCWS to reload it. Multiple times. A lot of guys prefer the ability to slap in a new belt from a turret.
Talk of the GAU-8 and loss of innocents by it made me think of the demonstration scene in "Blue Thunder"... where for every 10 rounds fired, number of enemy hit, a cutout representing an innocent was shown being blown-up. And I was like "Wow... talk about the population explosion!" [:\
with the need for 'close' CAS, an AC-130 mixed with 'Little Birds' buzzing around would have made an enormous difference.. In all, the entire original BHD mission was a huge 'cluster fuck'.
A thing to note is that when the fighting began and was going there were a ton of civilians in the streets and even marched on one of the crash sites so collateral damage was rampant because of that.
A-10s probably would have been very good at interdiction of large groups moving towards friendlies and chewing them up (would require good air recon and FAC). Though perhaps the mere presence of those monsters periodically doing starting runs would freak out the Somalis and slow them down.
You should do this with a 130 Spectre. There was some controversy about that in real life. I think they requested Specters but where denied or something. Would be interesting to se if that would have made a difference...
Weren't McKnight and Garrison complaining that they didn't get some AC-130 Spectre Gunships they asked for? I'm wondering what advantage they would have provided.
I think the war birds will do better than the A10. I also think war birds with Blackhawks, Kiowa's, Apache's, Cobra's, PaveHawks, and Sea Stallion's will do an even better job. Nice job on the content of this channel really enjoying it.
Hey Cap just an FYI we do not use feet when it comes to doing measurements in any form in the military, especially CAS. We use meters believe it or not, even here in the US military.
Once you move into a Close Quarter Battle scenario, no air asset is a game changer (with the exception of an AH64 in stand off). Not a single A/C would drop anything or even fire guns once soldiers got into CQB in Irag or Afghan, the risk of Blue on Blue/Blue on Green is to great. Having said that the use of modern small drones and advanced NV capability would have made a significant difference in 1993.
The Hog was designed for killing lots of Red tanks coming through the Fulda Gap, in conjunction with MLRS and Patriot batteries. Also, Apache and Longbow. Once that threat went away, their usefulness kind of went away.
CAS is a funny case. I think the manufacturers have been selling their solutions instead of studying the problem closely. As noted during this sortie, the GAU-8 is h-overkill… The feedback I was hearing was a BONE with a ton of JDAM’s aboard was great for your countryside role. The Apache is fine if the TIC has comms and someone with some sense. Used to be arty and mortars that shut down the near threat. Which, they were not considered or deployed during this op. But it was Clinton era. Lace panty State Dept time.
For this particular sim, Cap, it seems like you were kicking serious ass with the A-10. Your sight picture was always stable and you seemed to be sniping very accurately with the GAU. The GAU was racking up kills much faster than the 30mm and 13.5s in the Dora. Two points... Who on your team is as good as you in the A-10? You only need about 4 of "you" to get it done. You need the "best of the best" in this situation to keep collateral damage down. And...I think there would be zero civilians buses running around during those firefights. Unless all the civilians had shopping coupons about to expire no one is taking the bus downtown.
Just clarify a few mistakes, a reinforced U.N. battalion consisting of Pakistani's, Malay's and 10th MTN conducted the recovery. The figure of 3,000 is incorrect. That was the approximate number of U.N. troops in the city. Next, in the Black Sea and Bakharra Market areas, there was no such thing as civilians. Women flayed alive some of my protection party at Radio Mog on 5 June. Finally, the Blackhawks were armed with mini guns. Hope that helps. I was there from Mar - Nov 1993 inclusive.
Great video! Just a technical note - the game sound, even more so in "out of cockpit view", is very loud compared to voices and it makes it hard to hear you guys talking.
I understand it's a game. Collateral damage is a thing some veterans have to deal with. It lays on your shoulders till you put it down, if even possible. It's better (Mentally healthy?), as you can't change the situation anyway, to look at it another way. Did the mission succeed. Did you extract any more soldiers. How many friendlies did you save. How many enemy did you neutralize? Did you see your mistakes? Will you develop a change in you? You said nothing of that. I'm not angry at Cap. I love this stuff. At least a vid a day. Till I build a rig. See you up there.
Idk if DCS has it, but it would be interesting to see an AC130 in this scenario. While the howitzer would obviously cause collateral damage, I think the precision of the of the 40mm and the gatling would be pretty useful.
Cap, PLEASE TEST PAKISTAN VS INDIA, over kashmir conflict the geopolitical situation is very interesting and both side are in a conflict for that area for about 70 years now. It'd be perfect for the valued viewers who dont even know about Grim reapers.
In DCS do they have the Ac130 gun ship? They wanted to bring that to the fight but were denied for some reason. Maybe try adding it in if it's possible in DCS
So I figured I should finish the video and revise my comment I was going to post. In short I think the findings from this video are highly inaccurate due to the improper tactics applied. One of your own guys mentioned in the video that you should turn your FLIR pods on....lets take that a step further. 1. When dealing with danger close situations like this, 1 player should be designated the JTAC, either by land or air 2. stack your planes properly, don't just run in nilly willy however you choose. listen to the instructions from the jtac 3. USE YOUR FLIR, JTAC can laze a target or group of hostiles, provide any supporting information all within a matter of seconds before you start your run. Then all you have to do is pick up the laser and fire away with the directed munitions called for by the JTAC I think if you were to try this again (and this comment applies to the Vietnam battle of Ia Drang Valley video) you'd find a massive increase in points. Remember, at the actual battle there were C2 (command and control) helicopters hovering high above the city directing in little birds for strafing runs as well as other coordination efforts...the same could be done or mimicked in DCS with a A10 or HMMWV player JTAC that knows what he's doing. I've met and talked to Mike Durant. He said he felt like the whole city was out trying to kill them all...take that as you will in regards to collateral damage and civilian loss of life. On a separate note...You are getting better and better with your camera angles and it makes for very good looking videos. Keep it up.
I don't think the A10 would be setup for it...maybe dropping BDU-50's. I know training units were dropped (not so much during this particular scenario) to destroy enemy units in buildings and outside of buildings with low collateral damage. I mean a 500 lb chunk of concrete with no explosives does some considerable damage.
Paused it to agree with your easement. This is way outside what an A10 was built for! Overkill!.. I'm not even sure the AH-64 could have been of any value .thanks for the test mission.
I'm at 3:47 you're absolutely right, the A10 would not have been useful in this battle. Bottom line, the problem for US forces was tactics, if this had been a Russian operation they would have torn that city apart, civilian be damned. The US has been plague by having ambitious military goals, but being to screamish to do what is necessary to accomplish them. If you don't have the stomach to send in 5,000 men in tanks, don't send in 160 men in lightly armored humveys.
@@chrisstopher2277 just some Jarhead with 26years experience with military bureaucrats and stupidity that cost lives and wasted billions of tax dollars in more ways than to count. Semper FI
Maybe jets with smaller caliber, for a test in between warbirds and A-10? And for fun, try the A-4 Skyhawk mod with all 3x gunpod loadout for maximum ammo. The jets might have more fine control with flight surfaces and avionics to aim better than the warbirds -- but smaller caliber than the A-10 GAU to reduce splash damage?
Mogadishu Series:
A-10C & Warbirds: ruclips.net/video/2O2rdkzKOiA/видео.html
Tucano, Pucara & Huey Gunship: ruclips.net/video/e-1qxBuPANc/видео.html
OV-10A Bronco: ruclips.net/video/n-4CL6nWG6A/видео.html
What about the Apache? Now that it’s available. It’ll be the most likely air support available and sent. Though if too similar to Heuys then no problems.
Good to see that Cap' s voice is turning back to normal. His voice was deep and dark as a Sith Lord. It seems that the journey to the Dark Side of the Force is over. Kidding aside, wish you a full recovery, Cap.
thx
@@grimreapers Cap definitely sounds like Mark Strong when he's sick!
@@grimreapers Good to see puberty finally hit.. ;)
Love the series btw. New viewer.
Care to take on a challenge? The Swedish airforce Viggens (AJ37) locked onto the sr71 several times when the speedbird did its baltic run. Question is.. could we have shot it down? Could the Gripen?
Please do this scenario again with the Apache once we get it. I believe this is the proper platform to be effective.
Agreed. Precision targeting, agile, can loiter all over the battlefield. That 30 mm chain cannon and hellfire missiles strikes would make short work of the Somali footmen or technicals while not minimizing both collateral damage and friendly fire incidents.
Are there cobras available? It was a marine rescue operation...and the latest cobra model isn't far off from an apache
I wonder if Apaches would have been just as vulnerable as the MH-60s. Marine aviation doctrine with Cobras would probably be better.
@@wjhung2 Apaches have armor and dont have to be targets like the Blackhawks dropping off and picking up soldiers.
@@absolutezero6423 The Blackhawks were shot down when they were orbiting. Also, the RPGs were aimed at tail rotors. As far as I know, both Blackhawk and Apache are supposed to withstand strikes of 12.7mm fire on the tail rotor mechanisms. Army doctrine for Apaches generally has them hover instead of strafe like Marine Cobras. The Apaches have better armor around the cockpit as I understand.
I was there and air support was not an option for most of the battle. There were times we were in contact with Little Birds but we couldn't call them in even though they want to try it. It was just that close. Like Cap said, there were many times it was danger close, or worse.
RLTW
@@92HazelMocha Hooah!
NSDQ
Yeah, been on the receiving end of a DC strafe and that was scary in a relatively wide open area where the pilot could see the positions. Never would want to see it tried in an area like Mog.
@@nicolivoldkif9096 I saw a vid a few tears ago of an Air Force JTAC describing his experience in a large Iraqi city similar to the Mogadishu environment. His unit was surrounded and trapped under heavy, close fire. Most of his unit including himself were wounded. The closest enemy was only 10 meters away behind a brick wall actively shooting at his position. He marked it with a laser and called for a strafe run on it but the A-10 pilot said it was too close and couldn't comply. The JTAC explained that if it wasn't neutralized they would be overrun and pleaded for the strafe. The A-10 pilot radioed higher ups and explained the situation. With much resistance he finally got permission. He told the JTAC to cover themselves the best they could and was rolling in. His strafe was accurate and effective not causing any friendly casualties. The JTAC then had him make more strafing runs until the other threats were neutralized. He had nothing but praise and admiration for the A-10 pilots. I would have included a link to the interview but RUclips has removed it because it contains "hate and/or violence" and does not conform to their community standards.
A few AC-130 gunships and forward air controllers would have made the difference. NOT the A-10. In this scenario, you're looking at close quarters combat and you need more precision weapons.
You should redo this scenario with Apaches, once they come out.
Exactly what I was thinking.
I was thinking the same
apaches or cobras not sure if dcs has cobras
rgr
I want to see a Spooky or Ghostrider!
If I remember correctly according to a book I read the two Black Hawks were to provide fire support when needed. Black Hawks are troop carriers but are often equipped with two door guns manned by two of the crew. The two door guns are either .50 cals, mini guns, or some other GPMG like M-60’s. A third one was up doing command and control for all the forces involved.
I think a lot of the improved score with the War Birds is due to having had a practice run with the A-10s. The pilots got to see the target environment and where the enemy were on the first run, and so did better on their second go even though their aircraft were different.
agree
Watching the A-10s criss-crossing against each other while on attack is pretty awesome.
11:25 Love seeing all The A-10's taking off every time, very cinematic! Plus the formation flying as well of course👍
During the actual battle, the UH 60's were armed with miniguns and able to lay down suppressive fire. May have to come back once that is updated for the UH 60 or just swap out with Hueys for now. AH 64 would have worked much better than either A 10 or war birds... but we still have to wait for that. Could try the hind as a stand in.?
I would like to see a go with Hueys, Hinds and use some armor!
AH-34 uses a 30mm cannon.
+{UCVlfMyIlcHpSMXjjZ9xGbbQ} *The Kamov-50 module is available in Eagle Dynamics DCS:World, should Cap decide to revisit the Battles of Mogadishu.* Introduced in the DCS:Black Shark spinoff. The main issue this coaxial-rotor type would be aiming the fixed Grjazev-Shipunov-30-1 without excessive drift in firing position. Don't know if grapeshot night-tracer, the most appropriate antipersonnel round, is available for the GSh-30; impact-fuzed HE night-tracer is a reliable fallback.
Didn't they also use AH-6 Little Birds?
i fought there. it was brutal to say the least. all i can say is that i wish we had more LAW rockets on hand an a Hell of a lot more air support.
@grog Vaughan, would you be available for an interview?
Who were you with, man? I was there too....2-22INF 10th MTN.
@@rickb1973 That's awesome man, I live near Camp Hale where the 10th used to train. It's a historical site now and all the buildings are gone, but always cool to go read the plaques.
@@MOTO809 Cool, I've always wanted to visit there. I've read all about it in the unit's history. That was back when they had world class mountaineers and Olympic skiers in the 10th. The funny thing is, there's not a mountain in sight at Ft. Drum NY, where most of the Division is now and where I was stationed back in the early 90's.
@@tahbit i'd have to think about it.. i tend to cuss an awfull lot
The best American warbird for this would probably be the P38 which you may not have in game.. The guns did not have to converge since they were in the nose. If you were worried about collateral damage the runs could be done with just the 4 fifty cal without the cannons.
Love the vid GR, CAS in urban envirement is a pain in the neck! think especially with TACP/JTAC on the ground, guys in Ramadi, Baghdad and Falluja had minuts to find the bad guy and direct air support on it
The psychological impact of having air cover from A10s should not be underestimated. Even with just a few kills in the open streets would have made a lot of fighters that day question their motivations.
I would like to see this done again, with a couple changes if possible -
1: Lower buildings - looking at satellite pictures of the area, during the battle, it seems like there are way taller buildings in your battlefield here than at the actual crash site, which obstructs the view and aim, which could have helped in the A-10 runs.
2: Change the scenario of air support for the troops moving in, to protecting the crash sites. The street to street engagements, unless were talking throwing caution to the wind on gun runs with civilian casualties, are at best a headache, and trying to not hit your guys at the same time. Defending the crash sites it's more fixed and just running down streets to keep the mob off them till help arrives.
Though I don't think the game can simulate the psychological effects the strafing would have.
It was a moving fight up until the strike force reached crash #1 then the infantry was forced to dig in. The convoys on the other hand were definitely moving fights. The fight at crash site #2 could have benefited from CAS because the sheer number of attackers forced all survivors to fight for their lives. The pilot for the helicopter of crash #2 was the only survivor and the two Delta operators who fast roped in to protect the site were killed. The movie Black Hawk Down does a good job portraying the events.
I've never listened to the briefings in the videos until I heard my callsign @6:34. Maybe when the 3rd series of the Funday Campaign kicks off we should have Elk-- Centurian say the word "Pickle" every few minutes.
Edit: After watching the video I saw a few things the A-10 had going for it: The gun-pack(?) keeps the plan stable for "precision" work, the higher-velocity gun seemed to require less windage adjustment, it needs ~2 lucky shots from an AK to bring it down rather than one in a warbird, it could keep station longer and overnight for a 15-hour battle (not in simulation).
Obviously, you're right though. It's way too much for this scenario. If the GAU could be dialed back to 600rpm rather than 6000, if they made a hollow-point or thump round for it, and it somehow had an even lower stall speed it *might* suit the task. I remember there were some who criticized the littlebirds using their miniguns on mixed crowds of belligerents and civilians.
Helpful would be a spotter plane or platform loitering at a higher elevation acting as an air controller while marking enemy formations
The psychological effects of the A-10 might have been more effective then anything else
Agreed, If I was a baddy I wouldn’t be hanging out on the reserving end of the A-10 cannon. But CAP is correct as the A-10 mission is for anti-tank.
Glad your voice is almost back cap, good to have your narration. Although I will say I'm enjoying the slightly deeper voice...
Cap was a pure Jedi warrior, filled with light and joy. Then he went to the Dark Side for a while, where he got this deep and menacing voice. Now that he is back to the light side again, he still retains some of the dark side, this the slightly deep voice
like the movie portrayed there was supposed to be ac130's supporting , it would have been an entirely different battle with those over head. the mission was much better suited for the gunship than the a-10, so try the ac-130 on this one
An AC130 with a full ammo load and liberal rules of engagement would have made a major difference to the battle.
I think the OV-10 Bronco would have been perfect for this close air support.
ac-130 would have been better and they almost used them in real
@@mikesmith-wk7vy I am aware of the request for Gunships but the "splash" damage would have been far worse than the A-10. Helicopter gunships were a closer reality that most people forget about when they hear "gunship" . People generally think of the AC-130 gunships.
You should watch the video of a F 16 shooting down a Bronco
@@michaelsublet3283 i have, it was cute to watch the Bronco try to turn away , i was surprised the f16 went for guns and not an aim-9 but a small nation missiles are a big expense
I'd like to see this with an AC-130 since the commander of Task Force Ranger requested one for the mission and was denied by the politicians. Also great to hear Cap sounding human again!
I think that a decent aircraft to be tried in this scenario would be the F/A-18C Hornet. Nose mounted 20mm M61 gun (Not as brutal as a 30mm)
But if there are any guns who are more accurate/precise, you would want to use them (which might mean that you would want a different aircraft)
I also wonder, what if you tried something like an AH-64 Apache or AH-1Z attack helicopter with nothing but its gun?
some of the uh-60's were armed with door gunners (miniguns) and they had little bird support as well
Based on the parameters that you are operating under, I think that Apache or other helo gunship would have been the best option. I would like to see simulate that and try a AC130 gunship.
Cap's sounding much better! Wish you a speedy recovery cap!
I think Hellos is the way to go on this mission, I bet a squad of apaches would make a difference.
You're right the a-10 can be used danger close if you're careful enough but the engagements that happened goes far beyond danger close. There would have been more blue on blue than effective strikes
32:45 Talk about close!👍
Lmao brilliant landing😂👍
Glad your voice is better Cap! Great experiment! Maybe retry this with door gunners VS. attack helicopters? KA-50,/Hind, versus Huey door gunners to see which would be more effective (then do this again with only Apaches when the Apache is ready in game). Maybe helicopters would be more accurate with aim, but at the same time be more vulnerable to being shot down by the enemy.
Another great video. I suspect a flight of apache's would have mopped up. With the pilot flying and the gunner wholly concentrating on shooting
Counter argument… the A-10 would have been incredibly effective… as a DETERRENT. The psychological effect of having that big bird doing overflights would have kept the crowds and militia more at bay, buying everyone on the ground time to do the job and get out.
A-10 doesn’t have to wipe out the enemy forces. It needs to make them keep their heads down with some zoom passes and a few wisely placed BRRRTs, small bombs, or Hellfires.
Blaine yes and no..... yes it might have been a deterrent but if they took the opinion that it's to populated to use they might have called the Americnas bluff and assumed they would not have used it. so it's possible they could have been deterred or they could have called their bluff we'll never really know
@@TeenTeenFpv I don't think they had MANPADS. A relatively fast moving A-10 zooming in and out that you see for a few seconds would be much more difficult to hit with RPGs and technical mounted HMGs than an slow MH-60 with a steady orbit.
I get that black screen effect too. I'm not sure if it's a DCS thing or a track IR thing. I just pan my head to the left or right to get rid of it. It goes in and out and you have to pan your head every time. I have a 3080Ti, Ventus 3x by MSI.
That was supposed to have been fixed in the most recent update. Just a couple days ago.
Same. It is incredibly annoying. The recent update helped a bit it seems, but it still happens - especially in MP. 😵💫
Ah Cap, something that I forgot to mention is that there would be massive Civilian casualties no matter what.
IIRC at some point the "Hostiles" even started using civilians as human shields... Yeah...
The best weapons systems that they didn’t have were armed up armor humvees and MRAPs. In that environment planes are too fast and helicopters too vulnerable. MRAPs, especially the ones with the RPG defeating steal fences on them and the internally controlled multiple weapon system (50 cal, 30 cal. 40mm grenades, optical and thermal) are designed for that exact environment. You should use combined arms and buddy up (driver and gunner) for this scenario in MRAPS and Bradley’s.
the problem with the RCWS is someone STILL has to stop the vehicle. Form an all round defence. And reload that gun without the turret access and gun shield.
In a built up environment with multiple contacts. A 150 or even 300 round belt can disappear within minutes.
In a prolonged contact some poor bastard has to step out in enemy territory without the support of the RCWS to reload it. Multiple times.
A lot of guys prefer the ability to slap in a new belt from a turret.
the issue with the buses made me think of the movie Blue Thunder.....
..now we need a blue thunder and airwolf mod for DCS!!!! :D
23:07 BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRT!!
"Bus Down!"
Cap: Sigh....
🤣😅🤣😅
I expect no less! Classic Grim Reapers and I love it! :D
@@TeenTeenFpv Cap was actually pretty accurate on the Gau-gau
Good to hear your normal voice again Cap. 😀👍
What most people don't realise is this was a deliberate trap set by the Somail Warlord/General...
it was really cool to watch you guy did nice job keep up the nice work!
I like how cap was using small surgical bursts while his teammates were just unloading into a building😂
Silly boys... they killed EVERYTHING
Does the game have the A-1 Skyraider? Sandy would probably do good here. Harrier might be good too.
🤣 are you sure about that?
The aa situation in somalia was like the jungles of Vietnam.
Sandy got shot down in vietnam.
Addicted to wargames 💯💯💯
Talk of the GAU-8 and loss of innocents by it made me think of the demonstration scene in "Blue Thunder"... where for every 10 rounds fired, number of enemy hit, a cutout representing an innocent was shown being blown-up. And I was like "Wow... talk about the population explosion!" [:\
with the need for 'close' CAS, an AC-130 mixed with 'Little Birds' buzzing around would have made an enormous difference.. In all, the entire original BHD mission was a huge 'cluster fuck'.
A thing to note is that when the fighting began and was going there were a ton of civilians in the streets and even marched on one of the crash sites so collateral damage was rampant because of that.
Since you had a blackhawk down, you should run a rescue. Support fixed wings over heli rescue.
A-10s probably would have been very good at interdiction of large groups moving towards friendlies and chewing them up (would require good air recon and FAC). Though perhaps the mere presence of those monsters periodically doing starting runs would freak out the Somalis and slow them down.
I think this wasn't just about what platform could be employed but also that there were hundreds of civilians intermingled on the battlefield.
Indeed. GAU-8'ing a whole street with hundreds of combatans (like in the movie) AND civilians would have been a outcry.
The 60's used in the battle were the MH-60A and MH-60L that are used exclusively by the 160th SOAR and likely had M134 7.62mm miniguns mounted.
They had 7.62mm machine guns.
Great editing and great video. All around arousal.
Arousal is important
You should do this with a 130 Spectre. There was some controversy about that in real life. I think they requested Specters but where denied or something. Would be interesting to se if that would have made a difference...
Weren't McKnight and Garrison complaining that they didn't get some AC-130 Spectre Gunships they asked for? I'm wondering what advantage they would have provided.
I think the war birds will do better than the A10. I also think war birds with Blackhawks, Kiowa's, Apache's, Cobra's, PaveHawks, and Sea Stallion's will do an even better job. Nice job on the content of this channel really enjoying it.
You guys should do these sort of missions with the A-10A instead of the A-10C.
That was an ugly time..armor and AC130 gunships were denied and not deployed…took about 11 years before I could watch the movie… well done Cap..
I can't imagine getting shot at by a GAU-8, or even seeing my friends turn into red mist.
Using a jackhammer to hammer in a finishing nail.
Finally "The Voice" Is coming back
In Canada we call it the Somellie Affair
Hey Cap just an FYI we do not use feet when it comes to doing measurements in any form in the military, especially CAS. We use meters believe it or not, even here in the US military.
Once you move into a Close Quarter Battle scenario, no air asset is a game changer (with the exception of an AH64 in stand off). Not a single A/C would drop anything or even fire guns once soldiers got into CQB in Irag or Afghan, the risk of Blue on Blue/Blue on Green is to great. Having said that the use of modern small drones and advanced NV capability would have made a significant difference in 1993.
Cap's a bloody good shot with the GAU8!!
I finally found something I'm good at!
The generals wanted AC130 gun ships for cover, but they were denied by the White house. you should see if that would make a difference.
rgr
The Hog was designed for killing lots of Red tanks coming through the Fulda Gap, in conjunction with MLRS and Patriot batteries. Also, Apache and Longbow. Once that threat went away, their usefulness kind of went away.
Their battlefield close air support effectiveness is unapproachable. Urban warfare is a different kettle of fish.
CAS is a funny case. I think the manufacturers have been selling their solutions instead of studying the problem closely. As noted during this sortie, the GAU-8 is h-overkill… The feedback I was hearing was a BONE with a ton of JDAM’s aboard was great for your countryside role. The Apache is fine if the TIC has comms and someone with some sense. Used to be arty and mortars that shut down the near threat. Which, they were not considered or deployed during this op. But it was Clinton era. Lace panty State Dept time.
That UH-60 takeoff looked like it was about to be BHD before the actual BHD.
A10C with APKWS, ideal for pinpoint taking out 2-3 guys.
For this particular sim, Cap, it seems like you were kicking serious ass with the A-10. Your sight picture was always stable and you seemed to be sniping very accurately with the GAU. The GAU was racking up kills much faster than the 30mm and 13.5s in the Dora.
Two points... Who on your team is as good as you in the A-10? You only need about 4 of "you" to get it done. You need the "best of the best" in this situation to keep collateral damage down.
And...I think there would be zero civilians buses running around during those firefights. Unless all the civilians had shopping coupons about to expire no one is taking the bus downtown.
For naval target have you considered napalm? Does DCS track surviving manpower on naval vessels?
How do you get you MP running so smooth? Everytime I join a server it's stuttery and jerky to the point of hurting my head in VR.
Just clarify a few mistakes, a reinforced U.N. battalion consisting of Pakistani's, Malay's and 10th MTN conducted the recovery. The figure of 3,000 is incorrect. That was the approximate number of U.N. troops in the city. Next, in the Black Sea and Bakharra Market areas, there was no such thing as civilians. Women flayed alive some of my protection party at Radio Mog on 5 June. Finally, the Blackhawks were armed with mini guns. Hope that helps. I was there from Mar - Nov 1993 inclusive.
Great video! Just a technical note - the game sound, even more so in "out of cockpit view", is very loud compared to voices and it makes it hard to hear you guys talking.
Hogwise, I think the best weapons would be APKWS and unfuzed LGBs, you're right everything else is too big/inacurate
When I saw the film I would often wonder what aircraft would have been the best air support. Apaches? A10s?
I love how the Fw-190 gun sight vibrates from the engine. That's a simulator!
It was a nightmare aiming that thing!
So how long was it between the Blackhawk mod and Black Hawk Down recreation? That’s gotta be a record.
Not so much A10s. But what about re doing this but TF Ranger was able to get AC130 Spooky approved for over head cover?
I understand it's a game. Collateral damage is a thing some veterans have to deal with. It lays on your shoulders till you put it down, if even possible. It's better (Mentally healthy?), as you can't change the situation anyway, to look at it another way. Did the mission succeed. Did you extract any more soldiers. How many friendlies did you save. How many enemy did you neutralize? Did you see your mistakes? Will you develop a change in you? You said nothing of that. I'm not angry at Cap. I love this stuff. At least a vid a day. Till I build a rig. See you up there.
3:55 using warthogs is a great way to kill as many friendly’s as enemies
Idk if DCS has it, but it would be interesting to see an AC130 in this scenario. While the howitzer would obviously cause collateral damage, I think the precision of the of the 40mm and the gatling would be pretty useful.
When the Apache comes out for DCS, you need to redo this mission
15:12 Even better than a " WATCH THIS!!! 😃😃😃🙂🙂🙂😐😐😐😮😮😮😥😥😥 "
Cap, PLEASE TEST PAKISTAN VS INDIA, over kashmir conflict the geopolitical situation is very interesting and both side are in a conflict for that area for about 70 years now. It'd be perfect for the valued viewers who dont even know about Grim reapers.
The 60s were armed in the real life. They had crew chief/door gunner stations armed M134s.
A great video and great adaptation in the mission. Is there a download possibility to be able to fly that mission?
Alright, the "wow" dude popping up out of nowhere is freaking me the #$%& out.....LMAO
In DCS do they have the Ac130 gun ship? They wanted to bring that to the fight but were denied for some reason. Maybe try adding it in if it's possible in DCS
there is a mod for it, but afaik the guns aren't working properly yet. Once the mod is more finished, this would be a great test!
Would love to see a Spooky or Ghostrider just circle above and resolve the issue on its own!
So I figured I should finish the video and revise my comment I was going to post. In short I think the findings from this video are highly inaccurate due to the improper tactics applied.
One of your own guys mentioned in the video that you should turn your FLIR pods on....lets take that a step further.
1. When dealing with danger close situations like this, 1 player should be designated the JTAC, either by land or air
2. stack your planes properly, don't just run in nilly willy however you choose. listen to the instructions from the jtac
3. USE YOUR FLIR, JTAC can laze a target or group of hostiles, provide any supporting information all within a matter of seconds before you start your run. Then all you have to do is pick up the laser and fire away with the directed munitions called for by the JTAC
I think if you were to try this again (and this comment applies to the Vietnam battle of Ia Drang Valley video) you'd find a massive increase in points. Remember, at the actual battle there were C2 (command and control) helicopters hovering high above the city directing in little birds for strafing runs as well as other coordination efforts...the same could be done or mimicked in DCS with a A10 or HMMWV player JTAC that knows what he's doing.
I've met and talked to Mike Durant. He said he felt like the whole city was out trying to kill them all...take that as you will in regards to collateral damage and civilian loss of life.
On a separate note...You are getting better and better with your camera angles and it makes for very good looking videos. Keep it up.
I don't think the A10 would be setup for it...maybe dropping BDU-50's. I know training units were dropped (not so much during this particular scenario) to destroy enemy units in buildings and outside of buildings with low collateral damage. I mean a 500 lb chunk of concrete with no explosives does some considerable damage.
Paused it to agree with your easement. This is way outside what an A10 was built for!
Overkill!.. I'm not even sure the AH-64 could have been of any value .thanks for the test mission.
I'm at 3:47 you're absolutely right, the A10 would not have been useful in this battle. Bottom line, the problem for US forces was tactics, if this had been a Russian operation they would have torn that city apart, civilian be damned. The US has been plague by having ambitious military goals, but being to screamish to do what is necessary to accomplish them. If you don't have the stomach to send in 5,000 men in tanks, don't send in 160 men in lightly armored humveys.
send in a 1000 lb jdam, boom problem solved (/s)
I agree that the hog wouldn't have been helpful since its not designed for urban warfare. AC130 on the other hand...
Interesting that the game engine sound is pretty darn realistic!
Proper newb question - how do you set up the various different views you have? E.g., enemy positions or so you can watch a missile's impact?
My guess is that attack Helicopters might be more helpful. What about mouse holing and adding Bradleys to the mix
?
This is why you don’t perform surgery with a chainsaw! You need a scalpel and skilled surgical team, to do this sort of operation.
Tried to write something similiar but you worded it perfectly.
@@chrisstopher2277 just some Jarhead with 26years experience with military bureaucrats and stupidity that cost lives and wasted billions of tax dollars in more ways than to count. Semper FI
Maybe jets with smaller caliber, for a test in between warbirds and A-10? And for fun, try the A-4 Skyhawk mod with all 3x gunpod loadout for maximum ammo. The jets might have more fine control with flight surfaces and avionics to aim better than the warbirds -- but smaller caliber than the A-10 GAU to reduce splash damage?