I was a clubmaker in 60's and 70's in the Craigton golf company. We made MacGregor woods on behalf of MacGregor . Perhaps I made those woods! I loved the job and we made beautiful woods.
@@thecadman99 The Craigton Golf Co was in Glasgow Scotland, we made clubs under license for MacGregor for sale in the UK and Europe. MacGregor had their own factory I believe in Ohio. Perhaps the Gorman clubs were made there. We also made our own brand and signature clubs for Arnold Palmer, Gary Player, Bobby Cole, Peter Townsend, Neil Coles, Barbara Romack.
@@ng8981 John Frew made his own clubs in the late 70's. He was based at Bury St Edmunds golf club in Suffolk and produced a number of different irons. One was called Punch which were a rip off of the Ping. Played with him in a few pro ams. I seem to remember he had a polish guy working with him making the clubs.
I had a 'Matzi' persimmon driver for years. And a Tommy Armor 4 wood, solid persimmon as well that I played until I broke the damn thing. THAT was a great club. I have an Armour 5(metal) wood, gotta be 20 years old, that still hits so pure...
I used to play a Toney Penna Jupiter Slammer driver 10º DynamicGold R400. Deep face. Couldn't believe it when I first tried a TaylorMade "Original One", (~ 1985?) also 10º - and hit the Titleist balata almost 25 yards past it! And, the TaylorMade could be used off the deck. There was no going back after that.
I walk 9 at the local course playing classic clubs frequently. I have a lot of fun doing it. Some of my playing partners don't get it but to each his own. I really love that bag! Enjoy!
I just picked up a full set of Ping Eye 2+ irons with matching Ping 1-3 Wood (real wood) for £50. Took them out and played my best round in ages! The Ping Laminated maple 3 & 5 woods in particular are just divine,... who needs a hybrid?...
@@davidmacdonald8021 Wait until you get hold of a Ping Eye 2 six or seven wood. Funny to look at but lovely to hit. I currently play a set of Ping Zing 2 irons that must be coming on 40 years old. Not a mark on them. Wonderful irons.
I love the old clubs. I bust out my old Powerbuilt Citations 2-SW with matching persimmon woods when ever I need to work on my ball stricking needs work. Love the feel and it just makes me appreciate golf that much more. You have to hit the middle or pay the price.
A note on the golf ball comparison... older wound golf balls lose significant performance as they age, much more so than solid core balls. The tension in the elastic windings lessens with age, robbing the balls of distance. A test with a newly manufactured wound ball may show considerably less difference. Love this video. :)
@@A-FrameWedge I found evidence that may not be 100% true. Six or seven years ago (or so), I found a small stash (for sale) of Maxfli HT-100s with actual balata covers. They appeared to have been manufactured in Japan only a couple years prior, at most. Bought a couple dozen, they were fairly interesting. :)
Yep, my dad and I once tried playing with an 80s-vintage sleeve of Titleists, and they were D-E-A-D. You could hit a perfect drive and it would go nowhere. They went in the garbage after a couple holes.
Thanks for doing this vid Joel, it was a trip down memory lane for me as my first full set of clubs were VIP's which were given to me by my Uncle as a present when I went off to Uni. I chuckled to myself at the size of some of your divots, back in the day the fairways weren't as closely mown so the ball tended to sit up more on top of the turf, you learnt how not to take a divot. Chamfered sole relief only became necessary when groundsmen started to mow the fairways like Greens, to this day I still struggle to take a divot.
In 1970, Jack was in an 18 hole playoff for the Open Championship at St Andrews (Old Course). Against Doug Sanders, Jack was just 1 shot ahead teeing it up on the 18th hole - a par 4 of 356 yards. A tee shot close to the green could win it..... but there's out of bounds right.....a bad shot could lose it! Sanders had already hit the fairway, and Jack decided to go for the green - 356 yards away - with a balata ball - with a 42.75" persimmon headed driver, and some wind assistance. Could he hit it that far, that straight, under that pressure??? A great shot is a thing of beauty. Jack hit it flush, and put it through the green! THROUGH THE GREEN!!! Thats gotta be at least 380 yards - unbelievable!!! Of course he won - a good chip, a good putt. Birdie...... Best. Golfer. Ever.
Jack was in the top ten constantly. Sam Snead had more tour victories, but Jack had more majors. Tiger had an equipment advantage. I am not berating Tiger’s performance because he was a great talent, but how great would he have been playing at the same time with Jack, Sammy, Arnold, Gary and Ben. Hogan had the best swing ever except for Moe Norman and Ben hit fairways and greens more consistently. The newer players hit the ball a mile and find themselves in the rough or trouble constantly. Calvin Peete had an unconventional swing but was the most consistent fairway to green player ever, even better than Hogan. Today’s equipment gives the modern players a distinct advantage in many ways. Tiger is the best player in the modern era for now. Now then, look at players that have stuck with the game through the champions tour. There are a lot of great names in that group. I have enormous respect for anyone that sticks with their passion through their entire life.
Really enjoyed this review. I expected any review of older clubs to focus on all the negatives but you took a positive & appreciative approach I found wonderful. As you say being a good ball striker is key to using these clubs and the skill it requirers. I think the ball is key as well, older balls have a shelf life and they spin/curve so much more than modern ball which again reveals any flaw in the swing or strike. Note: I started in the game with these types of clubs and still have a set of the Macgregor Eye O Matic persimmon woods 1-4 on my wall produced in 1955. I bought them as "playable classics" in the 1970's and used them. They were the best persimmon clubs in the history of golf.
I have the exact same MacGregor bag in white and green too! Bought it 1994 and I still use it. Great quality because mine also looks like it’s new. Nice to see, I haven’t seen that exact model anywhere else.
I've got a set of MacGreggor Great Scott irons from the late 70s or so. I love playing them. When you hit them well it's like spreading butter on toast!
Joel much Aloha to you for this video, brought back dear memories of the good old days and my younger years using my MacGregor Eye-O-Matic driver and 3 wood, Wilson Staff fg-17 irons 1 thru SW and a 8813 putter, golf ball of choice the titleist balata 90 compression, all in a HotZ golf bag and wearing leather metal spike shoes. Green fees were $4.00 a round at either the AlaWai, Pali and TedMakalena Municipal Golf Courses and split $12.00 with my buddy for the golfcart and off we went, then go home at 2 in the morning and do it again next week. That’s how we rolled chasing the Sun in Hawaii.
I have an original set of Nicklaus Muirfield irons, set number 62. Used them for 3 years as a junior and mu scores were identical and qualified for u.s amateur using them as well
I'm 54, and, if all the claims from ball and club manufacturers that I have read about "revolutionary breakthroughs" were true, we should be hitting 400yards and holing nine out of ten putts . Golf is the ultimate game for marketing B/S.
As a 56 year old I agree with you, for me, the game is really all about developing as consistent and neutral a swing as possible. This guys obviously a good player with a nice swing, we should all endeavor to emulate this. BTW: the so called Tiger Woods 'stinger' is a great example of marketing - it's just a punch shot :-)
SuperTrader Mikey I'm 36 so have no where near your insight, but I have used permission in my teens and found a couple of titleist balata 90's in an old bag last week which I played a round with today. Lost about 30yds on the drive and more than a club on the irons. They don't spin as much as a prov1x either. Huge difference!
You need to do a bit of research. There's zero question today's clubs and balls are longer than ever. The ball in particular is revolutionary. Pros used to hit drivers with 3500-4000 rpm of spin now they're in the low 2000s while retaining more than enough spin to stop balls on greens even with fairway woods and long irons. There's probably at least 50 yards difference off the tee between the modern ball/clubs and classic balls/clubs.
Johnny Penso Research unnecessary because I play every day with the latest equipment. I know that the clubs and ball are better. I’m taking about the total exaggeration by manufacturers over the 45 years that I have been playing and reading
I remember watching good pros in Florida in the late ‘60’s, and the drivers would start out low and then ballon up because the balata balls spun so much. I think Nicklaus and Chi chi learned to tee the ball really high to take that spin out a bit and carry it further.
I started playing golf in the 1970s using the same VIP irons, Citation persimmon woods, and balata balls. Today people talk about game improving irons versus blades. . .well back then they were all blades!!
You hit the ball 40 yards shorter with the old driver and then another 15 yards shorter with the older ball. Combine the two and that is about 20% less distance. Instead of driving the ball 290 to 300 yards you are now down to 240 - 250 yards. That's huge. The older irons don't hit as far, so now you are a 5 iron into the green instead of a wedge. I love the modern equipment, but the downside is the older course were never designed for this massive leap and it take some of the charm out of playing them.
Nice review. I bought those clubs (used) in 1968 when I started playing You’re missing the 4,5 wood from the set. Yes, divots were “strip steaks”. It was crucial to stare just ahead of the ball during your swing. This prevented fat shots as you hit the ball clean and the divot followed.
My brother has a set of M/T McGregor irons that he learned to play golf with. He used to take huge divots with the razor sharp edge on those tiny heads.
Pretty cool to see how far golf technology has come it’s been a great thing for the sport allowing a lot more people to play at all skill levels will the level of forgiveness in the clubs back them I’m sure it was a bit of a deterrent for the hand eye coordinatedly challenged lol while it’s cool to take them out on the range or the course we are never going to be able to get that original feel how it was back then because of the ways the courses are set up not only the length difference but with tightly trimmed fairways and greens making them much quicker than when these clubs were actually used ive heard Jack say several times going over old shots that in this position today this would be dead because of the speed of the greens he likened them to putting on some of these closely clipped fairways the guys play on today and their fairway being like the primary cut of rough. I will say if you ar struggling with your ball striking these old relics are a great training tool to clean that up the blades compared to now have about a quarter sized sweet spot it’s instant feedback
I have a set that I recently had semi restored of MacGregor Tourneys that came to me in 1959 as 6 year old clubs. The 4 matching woods, Driver 3,4,5 come with it. No PW, irons are 2 - 9 and with a 10 iron. Matched that with an old Bulleye putter, have them in my office in a Ryder Cup Bag from 1991. Play a few holes with them about once every 6 months.
If I recall, the smaller ball was the standard in the UK, and golfers in the US used to use them, because, since they were smaller in relation to the hole, than the slightly larger US standard ball, they were more likely to go in the hole, rather than rim the cup.
4 месяца назад
Got a set of these 4 years ago for cheap on Marketplace as a starter kit. It feels like you have to commit and it forces you to focus to hit good and not just relly on the technology of modern clubs. I really like these as a new comer. And makes people talk when they see my 2 iron and the brown "papi" woods.
I had one of the first Ping Answer putters to come to the UK. Ping had no salesforce in the UK in those days and their putter was marketed/sold by the Slazenger company. Nicklaus played Slazenger clubs in the UK back then and the Ping Answer putter was stamped on the back with all the Ping wording but on the bottom of the putter it was stamped Jack Nicklaus and Slazenger. The shaft had a Slazenger/Ping foil label. I used it for many years until I had my car broken into and golf clubs stolen. There can't be many of them still around.
Had a Powerbilt persimmon driver, the one with the brass on the back of the head. It was heavy and stiff but it was what we used and I liked it. I currently use a Toski driver from the 90's that has what would now be considered a smallish head but it has the hottest face I've ever seen. Haven't been able to hit anything else as good so in the bag it stays. I used the same baseball glove for 5 seasons, 9 counting summer. Maybe I just don't like change.
There are a lot of older clubs out there. The feel is great, especially the VIP series. I found a set at thrift 3-PW for $13US. A bit of rust from sitting for 30 years. Faces perfect. Cleaned them up, added 1/2” to length, and changed the grips. Felt great. I hit the 3 iron 220 on a par 3, and hit the green. Great feel.
Thanks for this, my first set was a Jack Nicklaus Golden Bear set of blades, very similar to these, still easy to hit, much heavier than new gear but feel great, especially on a links course
I have a 2-SW 1978 Wilson staff tour blades, 2-SW 1969 Wilson bullet backs, and a set of low profile 3-PW sam snead blue ridge. I love taking those old clubs out for a spin once in a while. I have a ping eye 2 persimmons that I use off the tee. For the putter I use the Arnold Palmer AP personal. Great sets. I am kind of a Wilson fan boy, for my gaming Irons I use the Wilson V6.
I shot a 72 on a legitimate course back in the day with a set just like this.....I probably couldn't break 100 with them now. Technology has come SOOOO far since I (us old timers) started playing the game.
Now you're playing real golf! You're connecting with the soul of the game, and it's not dependent on distance but on feel. I have a classic set myself, with Ben Hogan persimmon woods, Walter Hagen forged irons, Wilson wedges, and a Bulls Eye putter. Want to groove a solid, repeatable swing? Play classic clubs. They won't hesitate to let you know when you hit a bad shot.
I started playing golf with a 2nd hand half set in 1978 - I remember it had a Bobby Locke bladed 4 iron with a brown leather grip. I used to play it off the tee and averaged about 180 yards. 😀
I use to play MacGregor Golden Bears 20th ann Murfield Village.... If my mind serves me well. Back in the late 80's they got destroyed on the Brabazon fairway with all the bricks in them it used to be famous for it's hardcore fairways, I worked there and played it hundreds of times over the years. I think I hit the best 3 iron I ever hit in my life with those irons out of a bunker, they were lovely blades. We're always up sold with all these innovations, a set of 10-20 year old irons are just as good as the new ones in the same condition stamped out yesterday only they don't have a poster child in all the magazines and a 100K marketing budget, no profit in trying to sell folks clubs they already own. I spoke to someone at a local course last year and he had spent close to 3K on his bag and clubs, not just one set, his remote control trolley, his putters, he played off around 24 on a great day, I asked him why not spend a bit more and pay to have someone hit the balls for him and drag him around the course too. He was the personification on Rodney Dangerfield.
Very interesting. I played at CAL in the early 70's. It was very common for guys to carry their 7 irons (3/4 shot) about 150 yds +or-. This guy only hit the MacGregor 7 iron 141 yds. With todays 7 iron the guy carries 164 yds. Looks like today a smooth 7 iron would carry 170+.and the trajectory is higher. That's a big deal. Then theirs the woods.
One of my most enjoyable golf shots was when I was given the chance to try the local pro's old wooden driver. I hit the ball really well and the feel and sound it gave me was just fantastic. I'm seriously considering replacing my modern driver with one of these. I only play for fun so I might actually be willing to sacrifice 30 yards for something that is just a lot more satisfying to hit the ball with.
I would have had a pretty tough time with those clubs lol. But I would have tried for sure. Looks like fun. You handled them well Joel and it was a pleasure to watch you do it. . Good analysis of those old clubs. Peace my friend. Spider Dubiel
I remember, I put a Ben Hogan Legend driver in my bag for fun. I pulled it out on the last hole and hit my best drive of the round. Never underestimate old clubs. Or maybe I just suck and got really lucky. Either way, I bring it sometimes and it still hits well.
I started playing golf at my first job out of Engineering College in the mid 80's and my first set was MacGregor with real woods, and metal shafts though they certainly were not the top of their line likes Jack's clubs. The balls (if you could afford them) were balata balls that were buttery soft around the green but tore very easily and if you really hit one hard would dent them...very expensive to play.
I just bought a full set of mint condition Wilson signature Cary Middlecoff clubs. I think that are around 70 years old. I'm having a blast playing them and getting respectful scores with them. Golf is a game of skill and concentration and the clubs are just a tool.
L J some of the older irons, pre 1970s or so, have much shorter staffs-possible an inch less or so. This could also attribute to distance loss. Given same length shafts and modern balls, you distance loss shouldn’t be less significant.
@@ScratchArkkitehti in the first year (1980) that the PGA took official Driving distance stats, Jack Nicklaus' driver average was 269.1 yards. Dan Pohl LED the tour that year with a average drive distance of 274.1. Clearly, even at age 40, Jack was still one of the longest hitters in the game. Early in his career and up until this point, golf clubs/balls technology changed little....forged irons, persimmon woods, and wound, balata balls were the standard. At age 25-35, Nicklaus easily could have averaged 275-280 yds. off the tee. He had power but it was controlled power that he didn't often need to utilize. Believe it..I watched him many times on tour and he was phenomenal. Don't judge him by his current 80 year old self. the guy was a stud/alpha male on the golf course. Hitting 280 yard drives with these clubs were nothing for him.
Shows how good jackie was and the other great players from the 70s......modern players haven't got the skill factor a ton Watson had....you had to be a great ball striker the compete. Great vlog
@@kalebzehr6850 No its not ffs, all good players but they can't strike a ball like Watson or trevino or a seve..... Even the modern players actually says this
@@Scatterpattern Explains why Rory couldn't hit a 96 callaway for toffee.... They all tried Palmers 62 open winning wilsons, they were too heavy and only 2 could actually hit them. There was not custom fitting and modern players would adjust but the real greats like Jack were a class above in ball striking.
My Dad had those. I couldn't hit those clanky things when I was in my late teens/early twenties, but back then I had no clue how to develop club head speed. My Dad played some excellent rounds with them. He didn't have the great swing, but he had great hand-eye coordination.
I had Tourneys from the 70s as my first adult sized set, then for my 18th in 1982 got MT Tourneys 1-10 plus SW. MacGregor normally stamped 10s instead of PW. And yes, 1.62s maybe went further and definitely didn’t balloon. I remember switching early to a 1.68 ball because I knew they were coming. It felt like using a beachball when the wind blew!
Very similar to the clubs I began playing with back in the 70's. Totally unforgiving, especially the driver. Those balls cut so easily too. One thinned shot and the ball was scrap!
I bought a full set of macgregor's mt iron set ones from the 60s 2-pw and 1-3-4-5 woods found a 2 wood aswell I use them but the my irons are the same design as the vips but I don't know how old they are
I recently tried a round with an old set of First Flite irons (popular with Arnie in their day), with much less success than you enjoyed. The old muscle-backs are challenging. Makes you think that, if amateur handicaps have stayed basically the same over the years, our grandfathers must have been far more skilled than we are. I'd love to see you play a round with a set of early game improvement clubs, say Ping Karsten or early Eye irons.
Just this year I had to end using my old 1974 Hogan Producers. Just couldn’t continue hitting a 6-iron 130 yards if I missed slightly. Had to abandon my old Joe Powell woods back a decade earlier for similar reasons.
At last someone recognises that people play in different conditions. It's mostly windy in the UK, so you don't want to get the ball high off the tee with a driver. It's all very well trying golf clubs in a studio where the conditions, are as near perfect, try getting the same results on a cold damp day. Far too much emphasis is on distance when it should be on accuracy and ball striking..
Back in the day when 250 was a good hit. I've done the persimmon/wound ball vs. titanium/solid ball combination. I found 20-30 yard difference on solid hits. Mishits? Forget it about it.
Modern clubs to me are more forgiving which is a good thing, infact it’s a confidence booster to know that even if your not hitting it flush your going to get a decent result.
I had a set of MacGregor Murfield irons and they felt incredible. They were tiny by today’s standards and way beyond my ability. They looked nice though.
“Custom fitting” of those clubs was a meeting with the club pro who set about them with a wood file & lead tape, hours of work😳😳 Today’s pro's only need the wrench to move the head around, set in seconds🤣🤣
Bear in mind those old balls degenerate over time. Great test though mate. You should do an episode on my dad. He was a pro for 40 years, and was pro at the home of the stableford points scoring system. Glamorganshire Gold Club
I did enjoy this, I myself have a MacGregor persimmon driver to keep me honest. People who played both say the smaller British ball flew further than the larger American ball but so far I’ve not seen that tested. It would be one option for tour players, make them play an even larger ball.
I had a set of vip’s. I recall that it had a 10 iron rather than a PW. I seriously yearned for a set of Muirfield irons - which I never got. Their design was described in a book by David Graham, Your Way to Winning Golf. I think he designed them?
My first set of clubs were from the 50s.. i had an amazing persimmon 4 wood i could hit from anywhere. First time i got on the green in 3 on a par 5 i hit my 4 wood and 2 two irons. Good times. I'm not much of a better golfer now with $1000 modern clubs.
Nobody is that much better. Modern clubs are a bit more forgiving and comfortable, but it's still the swing that determines the shots. Just goes to show you didn't need to spend a grand on clubs either. :)
I had no problem hitting that persimmon driver 260-270 in the air in my younger days. And the feel from the wood was fantastic. Just wish we have had some launch monitors to measure my swing speed in those days. This really put a big question mark on whether its worth the money to invest 3000 pounds in a set of new clubs, when you can buy cheap stuff from Golfbidder and play just as good.
One of the significant differences not really mentioned in the video is the difference in course conditions. Courses in the 50s and 60s didn't really have the irrigation systems they have now so they were much drier and played much firmer most of the time. Therefore, the lower launch angles and shorter carries off the tee would spend more time on the ground rolling. I even remember this being the case in many places into the 80s. So factor in the higher launch angles of today with the firmer courses of yesterday and the 16 yard difference off the tee may be even less. Regardless, taking equipment from a different era our for a spin once in awhile is a great way to inject some newfound joy into the game, imho.
Got a very similar set handed down as my first set. The wooden 4&1/2 was my go to club long after I got new irons. I would probably still have it in the bag if I didn't crack it. The feel and ability to work shots is different than anything people are putting out now.
That’s a nice set , I have that same bage just in a newer model . Only things I don’t like about old irons besides the sharp face angles is the soles leading edge ; they made them so sharp that you’d have to pick it clean otherwise it would dig to china .
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I was a clubmaker in 60's and 70's in the Craigton golf company. We made MacGregor woods on behalf of MacGregor . Perhaps I made those woods! I loved the job and we made beautiful woods.
I have a set of Gorman woods and irons, and heard they were actually made by Macgregor, any truth to that?
@@thecadman99 The Craigton Golf Co was in Glasgow Scotland, we made clubs under license for MacGregor for sale in the UK and Europe. MacGregor had their own factory I believe in Ohio. Perhaps the Gorman clubs were made there. We also made our own brand and signature clubs for Arnold Palmer, Gary Player, Bobby Cole, Peter Townsend, Neil Coles, Barbara Romack.
@@TheCampsies Don't forget Brenda Blumberg, Christy O'Connor and John Frew
I do remember the Craigton Thunderer driver.
@@ng8981 John Frew made his own clubs in the late 70's. He was based at Bury St Edmunds golf club in Suffolk and produced a number of different irons. One was called Punch which were a rip off of the Ping. Played with him in a few pro ams. I seem to remember he had a polish guy working with him making the clubs.
The sound of a well struck ball using a persimmon driver cannot be matched.
Beaten only by the echo off the trees around the tee
I had a 'Matzi' persimmon driver for years. And a Tommy Armor 4 wood, solid persimmon as well that I played until I broke the damn thing. THAT was a great club. I have an Armour 5(metal) wood, gotta be 20 years old, that still hits so pure...
Agreed!
I used to play a Toney Penna Jupiter Slammer driver 10º DynamicGold R400. Deep face. Couldn't believe it when I first tried a TaylorMade "Original One", (~ 1985?) also 10º - and hit the Titleist balata almost 25 yards past it! And, the TaylorMade could be used off the deck. There was no going back after that.
Hitting modern drivers isn't as pleasurable , the game is also in decline at club level , is there a link ?
I walk 9 at the local course playing classic clubs frequently. I have a lot of fun doing it. Some of my playing partners don't get it but to each his own. I really love that bag! Enjoy!
I just picked up a full set of Ping Eye 2+ irons with matching Ping 1-3 Wood (real wood) for £50. Took them out and played my best round in ages! The Ping Laminated maple 3 & 5 woods in particular are just divine,... who needs a hybrid?...
@@davidmacdonald8021 Wait until you get hold of a Ping Eye 2 six or seven wood. Funny to look at but lovely to hit. I currently play a set of Ping Zing 2 irons that must be coming on 40 years old. Not a mark on them. Wonderful irons.
I guess it is quite randomly asking but does anybody know of a good website to watch newly released series online?
@Julian Taylor flixportal
@Vincenzo Brennan thanks, signed up and it seems to work :) I really appreciate it !
I love the old clubs. I bust out my old Powerbuilt Citations 2-SW with matching persimmon woods when ever I need to work on my ball stricking needs work. Love the feel and it just makes me appreciate golf that much more. You have to hit the middle or pay the price.
A note on the golf ball comparison... older wound golf balls lose significant performance as they age, much more so than solid core balls. The tension in the elastic windings lessens with age, robbing the balls of distance. A test with a newly manufactured wound ball may show considerably less difference.
Love this video. :)
I surmised that that might be the case.
NRJyzr They stopped making wound Balata balls in the 90’s.
@@A-FrameWedge I found evidence that may not be 100% true. Six or seven years ago (or so), I found a small stash (for sale) of Maxfli HT-100s with actual balata covers. They appeared to have been manufactured in Japan only a couple years prior, at most. Bought a couple dozen, they were fairly interesting. :)
Yep, my dad and I once tried playing with an 80s-vintage sleeve of Titleists, and they were D-E-A-D. You could hit a perfect drive and it would go nowhere. They went in the garbage after a couple holes.
In the U.S. the dunlop 65 was a store line ball,, not a pro line ball. back then it made a difference,,
Thanks for doing this vid Joel, it was a trip down memory lane for me as my first full set of clubs were VIP's which were given to me by my Uncle as a present when I went off to Uni. I chuckled to myself at the size of some of your divots, back in the day the fairways weren't as closely mown so the ball tended to sit up more on top of the turf, you learnt how not to take a divot. Chamfered sole relief only became necessary when groundsmen started to mow the fairways like Greens, to this day I still struggle to take a divot.
In 1970, Jack was in an 18 hole playoff for the Open Championship at St Andrews (Old Course). Against Doug Sanders, Jack was just 1 shot ahead teeing it up on the 18th hole - a par 4 of 356 yards. A tee shot close to the green could win it..... but there's out of bounds right.....a bad shot could lose it! Sanders had already hit the fairway, and Jack decided to go for the green - 356 yards away - with a balata ball - with a 42.75" persimmon headed driver, and some wind assistance.
Could he hit it that far, that straight, under that pressure???
A great shot is a thing of beauty. Jack hit it flush, and put it through the green! THROUGH THE GREEN!!! Thats gotta be at least 380 yards - unbelievable!!!
Of course he won - a good chip, a good putt. Birdie...... Best. Golfer. Ever.
Great Story, heard and read of it many times❤...I just prefer Tiger over Jack
Jack was in the top ten constantly. Sam Snead had more tour victories, but Jack had more majors. Tiger had an equipment advantage. I am not berating Tiger’s performance because he was a great talent, but how great would he have been playing at the same time with Jack, Sammy, Arnold, Gary and Ben. Hogan had the best swing ever except for Moe Norman and Ben hit fairways and greens more consistently. The newer players hit the ball a mile and find themselves in the rough or trouble constantly. Calvin Peete had an unconventional swing but was the most consistent fairway to green player ever, even better than Hogan. Today’s equipment gives the modern players a distinct advantage in many ways. Tiger is the best player in the modern era for now. Now then, look at players that have stuck with the game through the champions tour. There are a lot of great names in that group. I have enormous respect for anyone that sticks with their passion through their entire life.
Really enjoyed this review. I expected any review of older clubs to focus on all the negatives but you took a positive & appreciative approach I found wonderful. As you say being a good ball striker is key to using these clubs and the skill it requirers. I think the ball is key as well, older balls have a shelf life and they spin/curve so much more than modern ball which again reveals any flaw in the swing or strike.
Note: I started in the game with these types of clubs and still have a set of the Macgregor Eye O Matic persimmon woods 1-4 on my wall produced in 1955. I bought them as "playable classics" in the 1970's and used them. They were the best persimmon clubs in the history of golf.
Seeing those woods give a whole new reference to the saying hit it on the screws!
I have the exact same MacGregor bag in white and green too! Bought it 1994 and I still use it. Great quality because mine also looks like it’s new. Nice to see, I haven’t seen that exact model anywhere else.
I've got a set of MacGreggor Great Scott irons from the late 70s or so. I love playing them. When you hit them well it's like spreading butter on toast!
Love the sound of of a well hit wood driver
I remember taking apart an old Dunlop golf ball and its a small jell filled soft rubber ball wrapped with elastic then the white outer coating.
Joel much Aloha to you for this video, brought back dear memories of the good old days and my younger years using my MacGregor Eye-O-Matic driver and 3 wood, Wilson Staff fg-17 irons 1 thru SW and a 8813 putter, golf ball of choice the titleist balata 90 compression, all in a HotZ golf bag and wearing leather metal spike shoes. Green fees were $4.00 a round at either the AlaWai, Pali and TedMakalena Municipal Golf Courses and split $12.00 with my buddy for the golfcart and off we went, then go home at 2 in the morning and do it again next week. That’s how we rolled chasing the Sun in Hawaii.
Wonderful memories...I too have great memories of yesteryear playing on those warm Southern California evenings
I have an original set of Nicklaus Muirfield irons, set number 62. Used them for 3 years as a junior and mu scores were identical and qualified for u.s amateur using them as well
And to think a young Jack Nicklaus hit that driver over 300 yards, regularly.
@David Hargreaves If it's a Tommy Armour 945 like Jack's then it's surely worth a fortune.
I'm 54, and, if all the claims from ball and club manufacturers that I have read about "revolutionary breakthroughs" were true, we should be hitting 400yards and holing nine out of ten putts . Golf is the ultimate game for marketing B/S.
As a 56 year old I agree with you, for me, the game is really all about developing as consistent and neutral a swing as possible. This guys obviously a good player with a nice swing, we should all endeavor to emulate this. BTW: the so called Tiger Woods 'stinger' is a great example of marketing - it's just a punch shot :-)
Kenneth Marshall Have you tried custom fitting?
SuperTrader Mikey I'm 36 so have no where near your insight, but I have used permission in my teens and found a couple of titleist balata 90's in an old bag last week which I played a round with today. Lost about 30yds on the drive and more than a club on the irons. They don't spin as much as a prov1x either. Huge difference!
You need to do a bit of research. There's zero question today's clubs and balls are longer than ever. The ball in particular is revolutionary. Pros used to hit drivers with 3500-4000 rpm of spin now they're in the low 2000s while retaining more than enough spin to stop balls on greens even with fairway woods and long irons. There's probably at least 50 yards difference off the tee between the modern ball/clubs and classic balls/clubs.
Johnny Penso Research unnecessary because I play every day with the latest equipment. I know that the clubs and ball are better. I’m taking about the total exaggeration by manufacturers over the 45 years that I have been playing and reading
Love the VIP Macs. I'm still playing the newer 1025M today and haven't found anything better.
I remember watching good pros in Florida in the late ‘60’s, and the drivers would start out low and then ballon up because the balata balls spun so much. I think Nicklaus and Chi chi learned to tee the ball really high to take that spin out a bit and carry it further.
You killed it with the 1 iron. Bravo.
I started playing golf in the 1970s using the same VIP irons, Citation persimmon woods, and balata balls. Today people talk about game improving irons versus blades. . .well back then they were all blades!!
It's so refreshing isn't it? I have been using vintage irons and persimmon woods for 2 years now. Love it! Just play from the whites and enjoy!
You hit the ball 40 yards shorter with the old driver and then another 15 yards shorter with the older ball. Combine the two and that is about 20% less distance. Instead of driving the ball 290 to 300 yards you are now down to 240 - 250 yards. That's huge. The older irons don't hit as far, so now you are a 5 iron into the green instead of a wedge.
I love the modern equipment, but the downside is the older course were never designed for this massive leap and it take some of the charm out of playing them.
Nice review. I bought those clubs (used) in 1968 when I started playing You’re missing the 4,5 wood from the set. Yes, divots were “strip steaks”. It was crucial to stare just ahead of the ball during your swing. This prevented fat shots as you hit the ball clean and the divot followed.
I used to call a good divot a "beaver pelt"!
My brother has a set of M/T McGregor irons that he learned to play golf with. He used to take huge divots with the razor sharp edge on those tiny heads.
Love my old ben hogans. 1961 power thrust. Currently in the bag... scoring the same as my modern clubs too.
Pretty cool to see how far golf technology has come it’s been a great thing for the sport allowing a lot more people to play at all skill levels will the level of forgiveness in the clubs back them I’m sure it was a bit of a deterrent for the hand eye coordinatedly challenged lol while it’s cool to take them out on the range or the course we are never going to be able to get that original feel how it was back then because of the ways the courses are set up not only the length difference but with tightly trimmed fairways and greens making them much quicker than when these clubs were actually used ive heard Jack say several times going over old shots that in this position today this would be dead because of the speed of the greens he likened them to putting on some of these closely clipped fairways the guys play on today and their fairway being like the primary cut of rough. I will say if you ar struggling with your ball striking these old relics are a great training tool to clean that up the blades compared to now have about a quarter sized sweet spot it’s instant feedback
I enjoyed this video!! Keep it coming!
Some of the best clubs ever made memories brilliant.
I have a set that I recently had semi restored of MacGregor Tourneys that came to me in 1959 as 6 year old clubs. The 4 matching woods, Driver 3,4,5 come with it. No PW, irons are 2 - 9 and with a 10 iron. Matched that with an old Bulleye putter, have them in my office in a Ryder Cup Bag from 1991. Play a few holes with them about once every 6 months.
If I recall, the smaller ball was the standard in the UK, and golfers in the US used to use them, because, since they were smaller in relation to the hole, than the slightly larger US standard ball, they were more likely to go in the hole, rather than rim the cup.
Got a set of these 4 years ago for cheap on Marketplace as a starter kit. It feels like you have to commit and it forces you to focus to hit good and not just relly on the technology of modern clubs. I really like these as a new comer. And makes people talk when they see my 2 iron and the brown "papi" woods.
Really nice to watch types of clubs my father played. Great sound the driver made on the course
When Ben Hogan hit his three wood in the fw, the "crack" that was heard on impact was terrifying and caused heads to turn.
I have dreamed of watching Hogan in his prime
I actually have 3 or 4 Jack Nicklaus Macgregor clubs from the sixties leather wrap original they are quite nice to hit
I had one of the first Ping Answer putters to come to the UK. Ping had no salesforce in the UK in those days and their putter was marketed/sold by the Slazenger company. Nicklaus played Slazenger clubs in the UK back then and the Ping Answer putter was stamped on the back with all the Ping wording but on the bottom of the putter it was stamped Jack Nicklaus and Slazenger. The shaft had a Slazenger/Ping foil label. I used it for many years until I had my car broken into and golf clubs stolen. There can't be many of them still around.
They sell for silly money now too, £300 to £400
I got a couple of persimmon woods myself recently, last Friday, I played with a persimmon 2 wood and managed to get a couple of good shots off the tee
Had a Powerbilt persimmon driver, the one with the brass on the back of the head. It was heavy and stiff but it was what we used and I liked it. I currently use a Toski driver from the 90's that has what would now be considered a smallish head but it has the hottest face I've ever seen. Haven't been able to hit anything else as good so in the bag it stays. I used the same baseball glove for 5 seasons, 9 counting summer. Maybe I just don't like change.
There are a lot of older clubs out there. The feel is great, especially the VIP series. I found a set at thrift 3-PW for $13US. A bit of rust from sitting for 30 years. Faces perfect. Cleaned them up, added 1/2” to length, and changed the grips. Felt great. I hit the 3 iron 220 on a par 3, and hit the green. Great feel.
I love hickory golf clubs, except hickory drivers have small clubs which makes it harder to strike the ball
Mac Drivers and irons are coveted in the ball striking purist realm. I play some 1959 Mac irons and they are fantastic.
I still have a couple of Dunlop 65's brand new
Thanks for this, my first set was a Jack Nicklaus Golden Bear set of blades, very similar to these, still easy to hit, much heavier than new gear but feel great, especially on a links course
I have a 2-SW 1978 Wilson staff tour blades, 2-SW 1969 Wilson bullet backs, and a set of low profile 3-PW sam snead blue ridge. I love taking those old clubs out for a spin once in a while. I have a ping eye 2 persimmons that I use off the tee. For the putter I use the Arnold Palmer AP personal. Great sets. I am kind of a Wilson fan boy, for my gaming Irons I use the Wilson V6.
I shot a 72 on a legitimate course back in the day with a set just like this.....I probably couldn't break 100 with them now. Technology has come SOOOO far since I (us old timers) started playing the game.
Now you're playing real golf! You're connecting with the soul of the game, and it's not dependent on distance but on feel. I have a classic set myself, with Ben Hogan persimmon woods, Walter Hagen forged irons, Wilson wedges, and a Bulls Eye putter. Want to groove a solid, repeatable swing? Play classic clubs. They won't hesitate to let you know when you hit a bad shot.
I started playing golf with a 2nd hand half set in 1978 - I remember it had a Bobby Locke bladed 4 iron with a brown leather grip. I used to play it off the tee and averaged about 180 yards. 😀
I use to play MacGregor Golden Bears 20th ann Murfield Village.... If my mind serves me well. Back in the late 80's they got destroyed on the Brabazon fairway with all the bricks in them it used to be famous for it's hardcore fairways, I worked there and played it hundreds of times over the years. I think I hit the best 3 iron I ever hit in my life with those irons out of a bunker, they were lovely blades. We're always up sold with all these innovations, a set of 10-20 year old irons are just as good as the new ones in the same condition stamped out yesterday only they don't have a poster child in all the magazines and a 100K marketing budget, no profit in trying to sell folks clubs they already own. I spoke to someone at a local course last year and he had spent close to 3K on his bag and clubs, not just one set, his remote control trolley, his putters, he played off around 24 on a great day, I asked him why not spend a bit more and pay to have someone hit the balls for him and drag him around the course too. He was the personification on Rodney Dangerfield.
😂😂😂 funny stuff!
Jack Nicklaus could hit that driver around 280yds. Thats impressive.
Very interesting. I played at CAL in the early 70's. It was very common for guys to carry their 7 irons (3/4 shot) about 150 yds +or-. This guy only hit the MacGregor 7 iron 141 yds. With todays 7 iron the guy carries 164 yds. Looks like today a smooth 7 iron would carry 170+.and the trajectory is higher. That's a big deal. Then theirs the woods.
I'd like to see modern players using a full set of these and see how they do. Modern clubs are much more foregiving
One of my most enjoyable golf shots was when I was given the chance to try the local pro's old wooden driver. I hit the ball really well and the feel and sound it gave me was just fantastic. I'm seriously considering replacing my modern driver with one of these. I only play for fun so I might actually be willing to sacrifice 30 yards for something that is just a lot more satisfying to hit the ball with.
I would have had a pretty tough time with those clubs lol. But I would have tried for sure. Looks like fun. You handled them well Joel and it was a pleasure to watch you do it. . Good analysis of those old clubs. Peace my friend. Spider Dubiel
I remember, I put a Ben Hogan Legend driver in my bag for fun. I pulled it out on the last hole and hit my best drive of the round. Never underestimate old clubs. Or maybe I just suck and got really lucky. Either way, I bring it sometimes and it still hits well.
I started playing golf at my first job out of Engineering College in the mid 80's and my first set was MacGregor with real woods, and metal shafts though they certainly were not the top of their line likes Jack's clubs. The balls (if you could afford them) were balata balls that were buttery soft around the green but tore very easily and if you really hit one hard would dent them...very expensive to play.
I just bought a full set of mint condition Wilson signature Cary Middlecoff clubs. I think that are around 70 years old. I'm having a blast playing them and getting respectful scores with them.
Golf is a game of skill and concentration and the clubs are just a tool.
Your 7 iron loft versus the VIP is way stronger. Hence the higher spin and less yardage with VIP. You should have compared your 9 iron to the 7 VIP.
L J some of the older irons, pre 1970s or so, have much shorter staffs-possible an inch less or so. This could also attribute to distance loss. Given same length shafts and modern balls, you distance loss shouldn’t be less significant.
Yea, and I would suspect the pros would have them bent to a stronger loft.
Fantastic video I have an old set of Johnny Miller think I might take them out after this 👍
Wow! That’s the exact same bag model as I have. Same color, same everything. Mine is from 1994 and still looks great!
The first non-Kmart clubs I every used were Nicklaus murfields
I learnt with John Letters “Dai Rees” irons, pure blades. As soon as the peripheral weighted cavity back irons came out the blades were traded in!
Great. I've still got a Snead 3 wood. Wonderful out of the screws, but if not...!
To think Jack averaged almost 280 with that driver and ball combo
Throughout his career, Nicklaus would consistently hit mammoth 330-yard drives. And his driver was only 43 inches long.
@@galdessa1 42-3/4"
@@galdessa1 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
@@galdessa1 thats a lie. Go watch one of the Shells from the 60s
@@ScratchArkkitehti in the first year (1980) that the PGA took official Driving distance stats, Jack Nicklaus' driver average was 269.1 yards. Dan Pohl LED the tour that year with a average drive distance of 274.1. Clearly, even at age 40, Jack was still one of the longest hitters in the game. Early in his career and up until this point, golf clubs/balls technology changed little....forged irons, persimmon woods, and wound, balata balls were the standard. At age 25-35, Nicklaus easily could have averaged 275-280 yds. off the tee. He had power but it was controlled power that he didn't often need to utilize. Believe it..I watched him many times on tour and he was phenomenal. Don't judge him by his current 80 year old self. the guy was a stud/alpha male on the golf course. Hitting 280 yard drives with these clubs were nothing for him.
This was great. We need to see more historical set reviews.
Ha! I still play those exact irons.
I know it's been a few years but I loved this vid
Shows how good jackie was and the other great players from the 70s......modern players haven't got the skill factor a ton Watson had....you had to be a great ball striker the compete. Great vlog
Lmao its laughable when people say this. As if modern tour pros aren't good ball strikers.
@@kalebzehr6850
No its not ffs, all good players but they can't strike a ball like Watson or trevino or a seve..... Even the modern players actually says this
Nick Deakin absolute nonsense. Rory, Tiger, DJ, JT, Adam Scott, Fleetwood and more all still play blades.
@@Scatterpattern
Explains why Rory couldn't hit a 96 callaway for toffee.... They all tried Palmers 62 open winning wilsons, they were too heavy and only 2 could actually hit them. There was not custom fitting and modern players would adjust but the real greats like Jack were a class above in ball striking.
I believe the great ones would be great in any era. They would find a way. That's what they do.
Still use my Wilson Staff Tour Blades fg.17s from 1978. With modern balls they loose a little, but if you are good!
Great video
my first proper set after my junior clubs was a macgregor MT tourney set ( with the split level sole) happy days
My Dad had those. I couldn't hit those clanky things when I was in my late teens/early twenties, but back then I had no clue how to develop club head speed. My Dad played some excellent rounds with them. He didn't have the great swing, but he had great hand-eye coordination.
I had Tourneys from the 70s as my first adult sized set, then for my 18th in 1982 got MT Tourneys 1-10 plus SW. MacGregor normally stamped 10s instead of PW. And yes, 1.62s maybe went further and definitely didn’t balloon. I remember switching early to a 1.68 ball because I knew they were coming. It felt like using a beachball when the wind blew!
"Out of the screws" isn't a pun. These clubs are where that phrase comes from, because they have toe screws in the face.
On the screws
Very similar to the clubs I began playing with back in the 70's. Totally unforgiving, especially the driver. Those balls cut so easily too. One thinned shot and the ball was scrap!
My 'highly forgiving' modern Titanium 460cc driver isnt doing me any favours these days either! ))))).
I bought a full set of macgregor's mt iron set ones from the 60s 2-pw and 1-3-4-5 woods found a 2 wood aswell I use them but the my irons are the same design as the vips but I don't know how old they are
I recently tried a round with an old set of First Flite irons (popular with Arnie in their day), with much less success than you enjoyed. The old muscle-backs are challenging. Makes you think that, if amateur handicaps have stayed basically the same over the years, our grandfathers must have been far more skilled than we are. I'd love to see you play a round with a set of early game improvement clubs, say Ping Karsten or early Eye irons.
Course conditions are also drastically different..they weren't tossing away strokes on lightening fast greens..I'm sure that evens out the comparison
Just this year I had to end using my old 1974 Hogan Producers. Just couldn’t continue hitting a 6-iron 130 yards if I missed slightly. Had to abandon my old Joe Powell woods back a decade earlier for similar reasons.
That is a beautiful vintage set! I live that bag too!
At last someone recognises that people play in different conditions. It's mostly windy in the UK, so you don't want to get the ball high off the tee with a driver. It's all very well trying golf clubs in a studio where the conditions, are as near perfect, try getting the same results on a cold damp day. Far too much emphasis is on distance when it should be on accuracy and ball striking..
Back in the day when 250 was a good hit.
I've done the persimmon/wound ball vs. titanium/solid ball combination. I found 20-30 yard difference on solid hits. Mishits? Forget it about it.
Wilson and Hogan also had muscle back blades back then also, possible other brands as well.
Power kit. A forgotten golf company. There were some Scottish companies I think too but those are all gone now.
If Jack was in his prime today with all the advances in equipment, nutrition and training people would be saying Tiger who?
Modern clubs to me are more forgiving which is a good thing, infact it’s a confidence booster to know that even if your not hitting it flush your going to get a decent result.
I had a set of MacGregor Murfield irons and they felt incredible. They were tiny by today’s standards and way beyond my ability. They looked nice though.
Just goes to show how talented those guys were, jack regularly hit that same driver 300+
“Custom fitting” of those clubs was a meeting with the club pro who set about them with a wood file & lead tape, hours of work😳😳
Today’s pro's only need the wrench to move the head around, set in seconds🤣🤣
Bear in mind those old balls degenerate over time. Great test though mate. You should do an episode on my dad. He was a pro for 40 years, and was pro at the home of the stableford points scoring system. Glamorganshire Gold Club
I did enjoy this, I myself have a MacGregor persimmon driver to keep me honest. People who played both say the smaller British ball flew further than the larger American ball but so far I’ve not seen that tested. It would be one option for tour players, make them play an even larger ball.
I had a set of vip’s. I recall that it had a 10 iron rather than a PW. I seriously yearned for a set of Muirfield irons - which I never got. Their design was described in a book by David Graham, Your Way to Winning Golf. I think he designed them?
My dear friend Brian carried those for years until he scored some Pings. I wager those VIPs are in his Sister's garage to this day.
I have a set of those irons also including the 1 iron. Very rare.
that shot at 7:18 was beautiful.
My first set of clubs were from the 50s.. i had an amazing persimmon 4 wood i could hit from anywhere. First time i got on the green in 3 on a par 5 i hit my 4 wood and 2 two irons. Good times. I'm not much of a better golfer now with $1000 modern clubs.
Nobody is that much better. Modern clubs are a bit more forgiving and comfortable, but it's still the swing that determines the shots. Just goes to show you didn't need to spend a grand on clubs either. :)
I had no problem hitting that persimmon driver 260-270 in the air in my younger days. And the feel from the wood was fantastic. Just wish we have had some launch monitors to measure my swing speed in those days. This really put a big question mark on whether its worth the money to invest 3000 pounds in a set of new clubs, when you can buy cheap stuff from Golfbidder and play just as good.
As some one once said: "It's not the arrows, it's the indian".
Lol....sure you did
One of the significant differences not really mentioned in the video is the difference in course conditions. Courses in the 50s and 60s didn't really have the irrigation systems they have now so they were much drier and played much firmer most of the time. Therefore, the lower launch angles and shorter carries off the tee would spend more time on the ground rolling. I even remember this being the case in many places into the 80s. So factor in the higher launch angles of today with the firmer courses of yesterday and the 16 yard difference off the tee may be even less. Regardless, taking equipment from a different era our for a spin once in awhile is a great way to inject some newfound joy into the game, imho.
Got a very similar set handed down as my first set. The wooden 4&1/2 was my go to club long after I got new irons. I would probably still have it in the bag if I didn't crack it. The feel and ability to work shots is different than anything people are putting out now.
Jack occasionally drove the ball well in excess of 300 yards with that driver!
This is really well done. I enjoyed it very much. Subscribed.
Today I bought a set of Macgregor MCX forged blades. 3-10 iron + SW. Anyone know anything about those irons. What year id they make those?
The look at 7:21 was "I am in love".....LOL
Very cool video....thanks for posting
That’s a nice set , I have that same bage just in a newer model . Only things I don’t like about old irons besides the sharp face angles is the soles leading edge ; they made them so sharp that you’d have to pick it clean otherwise it would dig to china .
great content