The fact that Reese was not even in the discussion and found her way in the discussion is just remarkable. The fact we are getting 2 of the best rookies in the same year is incredible for the game and nobody can be a loser in this race because everybody LITERALLY are winning. CC AR WNBA Ratings Social Engagement just everything
That was a very bad explanation of efficiency. Generally offensive efficiency is 40-50-90. Clark's offensive efficiency is hurt by her 40% field goal percentage, 33% three point percentage. She's at 88% free throws so that's in line. I still have her as ROY, but her line and the 6 TO per game impact her efficiency much more than her having the ball all the time or the blowouts early in the season. She's an amazing player, there is no shame in acknowledging her full game, warts and all. Same with Reese, there are things she can improve upon. Both of these women are ballin'.
Sean, you pulled that out of your ass. Complete garbage. No basketball efficiency breaks 40, 50, 90. 40% 3s is above average and very few players hit 40% who play regularly. 50% FG is too general. It depends on position and how many 3s a player takes. Reese averages .5 FGs more than Caitlin per game but Caitlin average 2.4 more points per game on 1.2 less shots. Caitin is 33.3 from 3 but 53% from 2 where Reese is 41% from 2 and didn't make a 3 until Saturday. Caitlin's shooting is more efficient. Reese's rebound is very good..11 9, but is aided by Cardosa getting doubled. Caitlin's 7.4 assists are very good, and has faced the toughest coverage of any player in the league. Both avg 1.4 steals. Caitlin has .8 blocks, Reese had .3 - how is that even possible. She's a 6'3" Forward. I block per game should occur by accident. Caitlin's rebounds at 6.0 is 2nd of all guards. Angel has 1.8 assists. Low even for a forward. Caitlin is 88.8% FT. Reece I believe is up to high 77-78% FT. Reese is much better with with 1.5 turnovers to Caitlin's 5.4. Lastly, Caitlin is #1 in point production in the WNBA (points and points off assists.) That's efficient.
U see they don't like Angel Reese and that's sad she's a baby both are babies and playing hard but angel RESSE play both ends of the floor she play the best every night.
@@KewonJackson No, they are both 22. That's 4 years beyond the age of maturity, legally. It's just that one of them has a problem acting that way. How exactly is Reese playing both ways? 'Rebounding' may sound like a defensive stat, but it's kinda broken out today to better represent what it is. Reese has a disproportionate number of offensive rebounds than defensive ones. This is just a matter of poor shooting ability for your team, not extra quality in terms of rebounding prowess. The Sky have the league's lowest shooting from inside 5' @ just 54%! Damn near 1/2 of their layups present a rebound opportunity. They are the 3rd worst from 5'-10' @ 32%! You see the effect this has? A'ja has less than 1/2 as many offensive rebounds than Reese, not because she's not good, it's because her teammates are not missing. Defensively, Reese has 140 rebounds, Clark has 122. Clark is leading the league in this category for all guards. The WNBA is a post player league, it's just the way it is. The goal is, for all teams, to play through the middle. So explain how Reese only has 6 blocks. She plays in the middle, she's tall, she's long, this is part of her job. If you're going to go all in about how she plays both ends, you need to provide evidence of that, and offensive rebounds is not that. Clark has 17, and is tied for the most in the WNBA for all Guards. Steals - They have the same number. How is one playing D and the other not? Sure, Clark plays more minutes, but Reese plays in a more contested floor space. Reese has only been exceptional at offensive rebounding. When her team improves their shooting ability, her numbers are going to suffer for it. Whereas, when Clark's teammates get better, her numbers will only improve. More assists, fewer turnovers...
This seems so silly. Its like comparing a goalkeeper in football (soccer) with a forward. They are going to be doing different things. ROTY must be decided relative to the position they place. Obviously because CC223D is a "play maker" she will have the ball for a higher % and in some analysis this is considered "inefficient". Crazy talk.
@@onlylikemindedbwWow! You do know that CC won Rookie of the Month for May don’t you? There’s only so many rookies and each month they have to choose one..😂 what a homer.
The ADVANCED STATS USED BY ESPN are useless. That stats guy used the Hilinger formula, which was designed to measure a teams performance over entire season. "Money Ball" with Brad Pitt was about that formula.
Reese averaged 18 ppg her senior season. She currently averages 14 ppg playing better competition. That's -4 differential. Caitlin averaged 31 ppg her senior season .She now averages 16 ppg . That's a -15 differential in points production playing better competition. Clark's assist rate doesn't make up for that significant of a drop in points production. To be fair , I'll use Angel's -4 differential on Clarks stats. If Clark was only -4 differential in scoring from her last season at Iowa, she'd be averaging 27 ppg. That would put her in the race for league MVP instead of being neck and neck with Reese for ROY. This is why the race for ROY is closer than what people think. Reese should win ROY because of that.🎉
It's not a game stat, it's a media narrative stat. It's an insultingly low number, It's why the women's leagued have been mocked in the past when they talk about how great everyone has been. As iv tried to explain to you before, and has Paul has just done here as well. The NBA, puts almost no weight on it because its not very meaningful. How many dunks per/game after eating 10 ihop pancakes pregame, could be a stat too. But, if the girls want to keep pushing this as an important static, let us know when you get to 227
Stats can create narratives that don't really describe truth. Bottom line is ppg/rebounds/assists/steals/blocks/turnovers. Anything else and things get muddy...
Not really if their used intelligently. They put things like pts into perspective: ie maybe a player ( Clark is a example) scores a pretty good amount of points except when needed. All coaches use them
Caitlin is also the highest rebounding guard. And it isn’t close. She is 13th in defensive boards. It is amazing actually. If her shooting efficiency goes back up and she starts generating more points per game, it isn’t even a discussion. The break will help her more than anyone.
You know that DR is much easier to get because a team shoots and you just stand there and grab the miss. Offensive rebounds is much more difficult because you are standing around opposing players and have to hustle for either her miss and teammates misses and put them back in
-Angel Reese is currently the only rookie ranking top 25 in PER, Win Shares, Player Offensive Rating, and Player Defensive Rating among all WNBA players. -Angel Reese the fastest player in WNBA history to record 200+ points, 175+ rebounds, and 25+ steals.
You think Angel gonna be sleeping knowing Clark will be working during the break? She's got a way higher ceiling than Clark. Clark ceiling is just being able to shoot the 3 at a higher percentage and a little mid range game. As for Angel the Sky is the limit
-Angel Reese is currently the only rookie ranking top 25 in PER, Win Shares, Player Offensive Rating, and Player Defensive Rating among all WNBA players. -Angel Reese the fastest player in WNBA history to record 200+ points, 175+ rebounds, and 25+ steals.
Monica McNutt made the comment before Reese made the history on making 13 consecutive double doubles. Don't fail to mention that!!!!!!! Also, they have 20 more games to go and the Fever had played two more games than the Sky, don't fail to mention that either.
@@ransom6892 listen harder, no one has be able to do it consecutively like Reese. Which means she has to work harder due to the team not being the best. You have to look at the teams. This matters. AR has to best offensive and defensive for the team to win. If she takes a break+/- will be minus ratings. Men lie, women lie, numbers don't.
Angel has more impact! Angel set a league record! CC set a rookie record.The sky is a new team. The fever has more All stars and experienced players. So CC is working with more team wise, and AR is working with fewer allstars and experienced players. AR is ROTY
Just think if she didn't want to be a team player like angel. CC could just go out their and pad my stats She is humble and praised her players all the time. Watch angel talk it's all about me me
-Angel Reese is currently the only rookie ranking top 25 in PER, Win Shares, Player Offensive Rating, and Player Defensive Rating among all WNBA players. -Angel Reese the fastest player in WNBA history to record 200+ points, 175+ rebounds, and 25+ steals.
That’s cool / but CC has more steals and points per game than AR …. If AR truly deserves ROTY then great … but if it’s a tie .. then I have to cheer for CC, as a Fever fan!!
(1 triple double) no way compares to 13 consecutive double doubles and more on the way. .. . do the math. Which one would you want to have on your team. Reese will be Rookie of the Year!!!!! Reese is breaking league records not just Rookie records!!!!
That's complete BS. REESE had the entire Storm team helping her out yesterday. Everyone moved aside so Reese could do her thing unimpeded. Reese is getting major help. from everyone on the floor. Go watch the Storm Sky game to see how Angel is highly favored by both teams.
-Angel Reese is currently the only rookie ranking top 25 in PER, Win Shares, Player Offensive Rating, and Player Defensive Rating among all WNBA players. -Angel Reese the fastest player in WNBA history to record 200+ points, 175+ rebounds, and 25+ steals.
@@nolamoneysaver2029 Nice try because if you take another metric than steals and rebounds Cc has her beaten on every other combination involving points and assists.
Angel R.- 14.9ppg OR 4.9,DR 7, that's 4.9= 9.8 off. giving her the benefit- 14.9- 4.9 = 10 ppg ,we all know she doesn't pass out that much ,she puts the mss layup back up
No what's silly are the manufactured records for Clark that were never mentioned before thus season : first alleged 6ft ( she's less) brunette who scores 19 pts in the first full moon of July. Lol in case you don't know coaches use advanced stats like pie/pet, plus/minus etc to evaluate their players
Reese ‘broke’ a record already in existence; CC ‘established’ a record never accomplished in the existence of the WNBA. CC record was like capturing a Unicorn in comparison.
It’s a rookie record now she break the all time triple double record only 13 then she got somthing . But comparing a rookie to a league record is not comparable.
Candace Parker changed the entire game and positions. She was highly skilled in all areas and played both sides of the floor. From her offense to defense and from her footwork and ball handling skills… before Candace, people were limited to their positions and roles. Candace was a HUGE game changer on the floor for women’s basketball. A goat plays both sides of the floor. Candace played both sides at a HIGHLY skilled level; Taurasi has always played one side of the floor. She has always “pretended” to play defense when she decided to at least fake it.
Caitlyn leads in points, assists, steals, blocks and shooting percentage. Reese only leads in rebounds. Caitlyn is the best all around player putting up historic stats in every category for a rookie point guard. She's easily ROTY.
-Angel Reese is currently the only rookie ranking top 25 in PER, Win Shares, Player Offensive Rating, and Player Defensive Rating among all WNBA players. -Angel Reese the fastest player in WNBA history to record 200+ points, 175+ rebounds, and 25+ steals.
@@nolamoneysaver2029 Caitlyn is us the ROTY. She's the fastest WNBA player to record over 350 points, 100 rebounds and 150 assists. Put up a triple double while having 3 consecutive double-doubles in points and assists. She's scoring or assisting on over 55% of her team's points. Not to mention her impressive stats in rebounds and steals for a rookie guard. She's ROTY. Period.
-Angel Reese is currently the only rookie ranking top 25 in PER, Win Shares, Player Offensive Rating, and Player Defensive Rating among all WNBA players. -Angel Reese the fastest player in WNBA history to record 200+ points, 175+ rebounds, and 25+ steals.
@@aqilnaqi7901 CC is putting up historic stats for a rookie point guard. She's a complete player and is putting up records that no one has ever done. Reading is fundamental.
"Advanced stats" = manufactured stats that favor Reese, it's hilarious! CC is going to have to make it not even close for the rest of the season or the fix is already in. As "woke" USA Today said, "we need to make basketball black again."
Exactly. The WNBA just cannot accept that a hetero classy humble high I.Q. white girl is already the face of the WNBA and put the league on the map single-handedly. The resentment is real.
@dschutterrr First of all, it's not all that there talking about. Sounds like, that's your interpretation, what you want to believe. Saying all that: Reese, is not just rebounding well for a rookie, she's rebounding well period! That's for starters. She's also scoring at 14 pts a game (and rising); she averages 2 steals a game, and plays great all around defensively (period), but especially for a rookie, and she's already featured in the offense, and her role keeps expanding. She's also not turning the ball over a lot for a rookie, unlike that other Rookie we know about. And more importantly, the game seems to come easier to her the more the Sky plays. With the other girl, it seems the opposite. This is one of the big reasons, Reese leads in almost all of the aforementioned analytics vs Clark.
AR is not even close, period. I see CC is impacting her team the way it rarely happens. Her play motivates her teammates and the team is getting more bonded and better each game
Robin it’s nothing against AR but you will never get me excited looking at a rebounder that chases after her missed shots and layups. Seeing how CC moves the ball on the court those kamikaze passes that she throws they don’t always land but when they do magic happens. Yes they generate turnovers but I am hopeful that as chemistry improves between her and her teammates there are passes that she won’t attempt or try something different and there are passes that her teammates will learn to receive. I am still hopeful to see her go back to her NCAA heyday and revert to the scoring threat that she was but this time doing it in the WNBA. I have heard that she suffered from an ear injury I am wandering if it is not taking her off from her 3 pointers and scoring game in general because if her balance is slightly impaired it is definitely affecting her scoring ability.
No matter how hard you try, you can’t minimize what Angel does. Even if we assumed that she’s getting rebounds from missed layups, she’s doing what most players can’t do. She’s an athlete. She’s a phenomenal player; Cailin is too, but, some people, including pro basketball players, coaches and other experts believe that she is the front runner for ROTY. Some believe it’s Caitin.
@@sim2g2013 oh man go buy a dictionary there is more than one sense to the word excited and it does not always a have to do with the brain that you carry in your pants.
*I think it is way too early for any of these players to be caring about end of season rewards... but it is worth noting that when Angel was named rookie of the month (for have 9 consecutive double-double at the time?,) the every next game CC out of no where gets 12 rebounds. You're still a baby if you think CC is indifferent to rewards and records* 😂
Reese getting her own rebounds is a fact. 129 double doubles for points/rebounds is more common easier (129 in the entire league). Whereas there are 19 Double doubles from point and assists.
If you have to parse stats to elevate a losing player (losing in games, losing against Clark, losing standing, etc...), that's already a losing (no pun intended) proposition. Nobody has to say "Clark is excelling in these particular 2 or 3 stats..." because she's dominating across the board. You have to take ALL the stats to judge a player, not just those that favor either player. I could crush the whole Clark VS Reese with one stat: Clark has broken or set 12 WNBA records while Reese just broker her first a day or two ago in the SAME half season. Marinate on that.
I am still not sure why people ignore defense. Net rating, EFF, and plus minus all favor Angel because she's defending well. She just guarded Ezi back to back and held her own.
Finally a non biased sports reporter! Thank you! Too many hateful people refuse to give Angel Reese her just do, and credit! Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese, are two elite basketball players! But, too many racist out here that won't give Angel her flowers!
Here is the only stat you need. Which player can go on the road, fill not the normal arena, but a larger arena specifically used for just this away team, and fill THAT larger arena, and then get a standing from the AWAY crowd. There is only one nickname that is appropriate for Caitlin- MONEY HONEY
-Angel Reese is currently the only rookie ranking top 25 in PER, Win Shares, Player Offensive Rating, and Player Defensive Rating among all WNBA players. -Angel Reese the fastest player in WNBA history to record 200+ points, 175+ rebounds, and 25+ steals.
Difference is AR doesn’t hurt you or lose possession for her team. CC is amazing offensively but she gives minimal effort on defense and turns the ball over far too often. Because Angel doesn’t hurt her team in any way I would give the slight nod to her. SLIGHTLY. I also observed Reese is a better leader and assist in team chemistry. CC is a loner.
The ratings are so bad to relate to. Clark is better defensively than her team: 107.2 vs 108.4 (Clark is better defensively than her own team's defense) Angel is too. Unlike Clark, her team is RANKED 5 in defensive rating (but losing that spot over time since Williams went down) so her numbers are high. Her Offensive rating is really high relative to how she actually is would only happen because Chennedy Carter is a ridiculous +20 increase in ORTG by herself. Carter ranks in the top 10 of PER for any player in the league. This means that Carter is so good that they can carry an offense on her own. Reese has officially dropped any lineup combination by 10 points offensively in rating when you add her in instead of replacing her with a forward on the team (Harrison/ Williams/ etc.) as Reese is a bad offensive player. The "defense" is also not very good since when you pair her with any player, Williams actually ends up having the better defensive rating in place of Angel. Harrison actually has better net rating since she's actually good at scoring, and the defensive side is still good. Unfortunately, Reese is paired next to Harrison so you can't really see how Cardoso does in her place as a comparison and Williams is injured. Nonetheless, Reese is roughly 7 points worse defensively than Williams (this number is growing as the year goes on) and destroys the offense by 10 points. She is a bad "big" and cannot play alone without someone like Williams or Cardoso there to save her. If she's alone, then her defense is exposed since she does this: - Allows the most points scored in the paint (even more than most third stringers) at her position. - Allows the most offensive rebounds + second chance points for the team to collect over her. - She gives up nearly 32 points per game in the post on defense. - She fouls the most in the league, and is literally at a 3.9 Fouls Per Game rate. The two over her are basically injured. Angel is very poor at these things. Numbers don't lie--just the way you choose to read them do. Angel may be an impressive defensive player on the perimeter (though we have no tracking stats to see how many times she gets blown by), but her post defense is so bad that she's projected to be unplayable as a post defender. She should play the 3 in the future seasons.
@@whatisit-d8b I did not. The issue isn't who they picked, the issue is why they picked that person based off of the "variables" they used for the criteria. 1) Standings. There is no merit in using this to determine a ROY for a sport. Otherwise, Wemby wouldn't have had it over Chet. Nobody has ever used standings as an assessment. 2) Net Rating between two different teams. This is an issue with using advanced stats incorrectly. All the net rating/ defensive rating/ offensive ratings provide to a team is the way players mesh together in lineups. You cannot use it to compare players relative to other teams over the course of the season because that makes absolutely no sense--not only due to team defense being different, but also team pacing and playing styles being different. The stats do not conform to this measure, though. Clark's defensive rating is 107.2 The Team DEF rating is 108.4 This suggests that Clark is a better defensive player than the team's average. This means that on the team, Clark's a great defensive player. The numbers match the eye test as good defenders are shown this way: Temi (103), Hull (103), Boston (107) and bad defenders are worse for their rating; Smith (108.5) and Mitchell (109.5) are two examples. In regards to the net rating (overall), the Fever have been blown out by teams like 8 times this year, so obviously the net values would be insanely low given that reality--they have mostly won in clutch game situations and haven't truly had a massive swing in their favor to boost the stats. So, this is why they're at this position. Reese hasn't been blown out as much, I believe 1 game, and she's been on the team that blows out the other team--her numbers are definitely boosted to a better stature due to that. Her team's defensive rating is 100, which makes that team have a bigger gap compared to the team that is the bottom of defense. Regarding this "net rating" spectacle, we would then have silly conversations of Reese being better than Aja because of her number being higher despite that being true. The reality is that you only use these numbers to compare players on the same team relative to the team defensive metrics. Using it for other purposes just makes it seem insidious and trying to push a false narrative. Much like Clark, Reese is a better defensive player on her team than her team's net average--whatever that number may be. So, we're basically going to have to discuss defense differently since both players have "defensive" ability relative to their team. 3) According to them, Angel's numbers are "grown women" stats and efficiency is higher--or whatever narrative they try to push her as a better player at her position or relative to Clark. I feel, related to the commentator, this is incorrect. It is also a sad way to try to argue your case for a player. Season averages suggest that Clark's on pace to shatter records and make history. Reese is not on pace to shatter records or create history. Her pace is actually third best among rookies towards the set records. She's not doing anything "new" for her position either. Angel is on pace to have her shot blocked the most by any post player, on pace to lead the league in fouls, on pace to have one of the lowest shooting efficiencies for a post player of that ilk, and several others. Clark's going to break the turnover record and probably any other shooting woes like most misses or whatever that rookies have set before. Those are historic lowlights for both players that make them seem like they're not the best they are. But reality is that Angel's a great rebounder and is on pace to average a great deal of rebounds--regardless of how they are garnered or padded or whatever the complexity of her rebounds come about. She's on pace to have a top 5 rebounding push. The double-double (consecutive) streak is a record; although she doesn't have a single season record yet. After all, a lot of players have averaged double-double figures for a season before. And there are three players with more total rebounds as a rookie than she has right now in history. Her defensive numbers are a little inflated given that her post defense is actually pretty poor for someone being a post player. Therefore, she is positionally inferior at defense relative for her position. Even her own team has better post defenders than her available (injured or not) to replace her value. She shoots near the bottom of her own team (the worst shooting team in the league) and ranks pretty low in the league at her position in shooting splits. So, offensively and defensively, she's actually pretty bad towards both qualities. I wouldn't really call them grown numbers, either as they're basically lying about that. 14 points on 41% at 13 attempts. (4.1 from FTM) and among FORWARDS, she ranks: Points - 9th Rebounds - 1st FG% - 40th FTM - 3rd AST - 19th T/Os - 18th Steals - 9th Blocks - 28th Fouls - 3rd BPM (For her position) - 20th ORTG - 25th DRTG - 28th TS% - 47th She ranks near the bottom for giving up 2nd Chance Points, Points in the Paint, and Fast Break Points for her position. For her position, she actually doesn't rank that well relative to the forwards in the league. Clark, meanwhile, ranks better: Points - 11th Rebounds - 2nd AST - 1st FG% - 44th FTM - 6th T/Os - 1st Steals - 9th Blocks - 3rd Fouls - 4th TS% - 13th ORTG/ DRTG - beyond top 50. Meanwhile, Clark actually ranks top in her position for a few categories... Her abilities are shown better (even with the low RTG for O/D due to team structure) When you compare them: Reese is a higher level of a ppg scorer on a bottom tier efficiency rate. Clark is a lower scorer for her position, but on an elite efficiency rate. Reese is a good rebounder. Clark is a good rebounder, only Bonner had higher stats than her. Reese ranks near the bottom for her defensive abilities at her position. Clark has high values for "steals/ blocks" at her position, but the metrics for advanced stats rank her lower than her position. For the 12 players in the league that start, Clark would rank as a starter for her position on practically all of the stats. Which make her far more valuable than the other players. For the position that Reese occupies, she probably wouldn't really classify as a starter given how poor her metrics represent her--they suggest that you can find more effective players with that skillset combo, besides rebounding. If you want defense, then Reese isn't it for a big. If you want scoring, then Reese's shooting percentage doesn't make her a good scorer--just a volume shooter. All she ranks highly in is rebounding, fouling people, and shooting free throws against teams. As stated before, neither player hurts your team in the advanced stats side since both Clark and Reese are better defensively than their team defense is currently. They're good defenders. So, regardless of the scheme, both players can be effective on defense. One player is more able to do things on her own though, where as the other seems vastly dependent on team defensive schemes. Offensively, Clark is simply the better option since she not only scores at a better rate, but she provides scoring options for other players as well. Reese is flawed in comparison to Clark for those reasons. Besides rebounding + drawing fouls (mercy of the refs), she doesn't impact the game in any unique way that helps her at her position. She is a glorified role player and doesn't add any significant impact over an atypical forward of the league. More so, she is a vulnerable piece that relies on a standard forward to protect her glaring flaws. Clark is on the other hand able to provide two elite skill-sets among others that benefit every team. 4) You can't simply argue that someone works harder, or has more duties in a game, when the reality is that the players are uniquely proportioned to their position and the performance related to it. Yes Reese ranks higher in NET RATINGs than Clark. No, she's not better than Clark because of it. The team is simply a better defensive/ offensive team than Clark's team. Yes Clark ranks higher in PPG. No, she's not entirely better at getting PPG than Reese. The reality is that Clark's more efficiently scoring that PPG than Reese is--her value is that Clark's shots are more productive than the points that Reese scores in a game. Reese, however, has an easier path to scoring per game than Clark. After all, 97% of her shots are near the rim. 30% of her points come from the free throw. Clark has to work much harder for her PPG on the other hand, hence why her scoring is on a vastly different scale and fluctuates as much as it does. Without referencing the coverages or defense that they face, the reality is that Clark is working far harder in a game than Reese is. She's elite in many facets and Reese is suboptimal at many facets. 5) Based off of the data, the rookie of the year is pretty much Caitlin Clark's to lose at this point. Stats suggest that her season is far more superior, even without referencing the historic values of her projections. Reese is merely a basic top 20 player at her position... Someone elite at one thing, and sub-optimal at others. Clark is having a season where she's elite at multiple things, especially for her own position.
I agree people shouldn’t discredit Reese. But people are angry bc the media is not fairly representing them - it’s all about angel. Same with the players in the league
Efficiency is a major component of advanced stats, angel will be more efficient because she handles the ball probably 60-70 percent less than CC. But look at the pace each team is on and this year compared to lasts year. The Fever are on pace to win more games this year than last and the sky are slightly behind last year. Who is actually making their team better?
Clark's plus/minus ranking is bottom of the league- Reeses us near the top. The Fever do worse when she is on the court and better when on the bench: its the opposite with Reese. Clark fans forget how when no one would pass het the ball against the Dream they won:give her the ball and they would have lost. Other 'advanced " ( their not really advanced: bootstrap theory for instance is) stats like p.i.e. also indicate her weakness beneath a occasional surface glitter.
Sky has basically all new players... Its a young team... Fever is what you would call a young team team as well but they have 3 first round draft picks.. Last years rookie of the year and one of the leagues best scorers with mitchell ... Stop it
Robin, she really isn't leading FORWARDS in advanced stats for the third stringers. I don't really think people know how stats work. She is rated as the "third" worst on her own team in ratings, for the advanced stats. Angel's actually only good at REBOUNDING, like generationally good at it--even though you could make an argument that the rebounds are inflated: - CHI is the worst shooting team that shoots 80% of their shots for 2s. - Angel is a 40% shooting that shoots 97% of her shots near the rim. - Cardoso shoots 44% near the rim too, at the same high rate of 98% of her shots there. - Mabrey is shooting basically worse than Angel at like 38% off the floor. - There are two players shooting 25% on the floor. lmao. This is VERY bad for a team to do all this. By the way. Angel is also "getting" rebounds from her own shots being blocked + her own misses--which is why REESE and CARDOSO are historically HIGH for offensive rebounds. Literally, she's TERRIBLE at the rebounding on the defensive end since she ACTUALLY gives up the most second chance points among forwards in the league. She allows opponents to score more than her, which is why she's so mid at defensive rebounds--a lot of teams have backed off crashing the glass because Carter burns them in transition offense. This is why the entire picture is so jarring because Reese is literally padding the rebounds--her whole team is SO bad that you literally get 8 rebounds per quarter with them.
@@Vadimony Of course we do. But yours are wrong. So wrong. But I'll deal with yours (if at all), after I've had a drink. We already know your type. In a nutshell: This is why Reeses is the leading Candidate for ROTY, and leads in all the Analytics over Clark. But keep cherry picking statistics. SMH/LMAO!! See ya.
@@msl5253 Actually, you're wrong. I listed why Reese isn't the ROTY and why she's actually worse than a bench player at her very own position in the league. There are 12 teams and she ranks somewhere around the 30 to 20 in forwards around the league. Technically, she would be even lower on her own team.
In Reese's 13 straight double-doubles her team is 5-8 -- in Clark's triple-double, and all of her near triple doubles, her team is undefeated. One of them is stat padding (adding rebounds on your own missed shots), and the other is making her teammates better. What's the definition of a great player again? Historically, it has been someone who makes their teammates better. Can you be rookie of the year, if you aren't a great player?
The only problem I have with her analysis, if you're going to use that metric, it should be based on position. CC is a guard, which Angel Reese is not. Hence, that is comparing apples to oranges. Therefore, IMO, the argument is misplaced.
To show you how bogus Net rating is: there are 38 players ranked better than Aja Wilson. 115 out of 150 players are ranked better than Arike. 103 players ranked better than Derica Hamby. Kate Martin is ranked higher than all the starters on the Fever. In fact, 67% of WNBA players are ranked better than every one of the Fever staring 5! How do the Fever ever win a game with such lousy bunch of players much less being the 7th seed? It is a bogus data point that does a disservice to the word “advanced”. And saying Angel Reese is better than Clark because of her net rating is a joke.
Simple solution to the argument. How many double doubles and how many triple doubles have ever been accomplished in the WNBA? Bet it’s close to 200 to 1. I think there have only been 30 triple doubles in the WNBA history.
Although I still think CC is the clear ROTY, I'm really beginning to think that no matter what happens the W is going to award them as Co-ROTY just like Grant Hill and Jason Kidd back in the day
In the history of the WNBA there have been over 4,000 Double Doubles … and it’s climbing rapidly. On the other hand, there have only been 35 Triple Doubles in league history. That makes it more than One-Hundred Times rarer to achieve a Triple Double … and Caitlin Clark did it in 22 games. 😏
None of that takes into account that Caitlin played 11 games in 20 days with two back-to-backs during that time. The second games of those back-to-backs were in Vegas and in New York. I'd like to see her efficiency rating since that stretch.
-Angel Reese is currently the only rookie ranking top 25 in PER, Win Shares, Player Offensive Rating, and Player Defensive Rating among all WNBA players. -Angel Reese the fastest player in WNBA history to record 200+ points, 175+ rebounds, and 25+ steals.
What metrics do they normally use to choose ROTY? So, if they usually use net metrics then so be it. But, it makes no difference. Almost everyone is watching WNBA solely because of Caitlin Clark. I have never watched Angel Reese unless they are playing Indiana Fever. And I will still watch only Caitlin Clark whether she is ROTY or not.
Wrong!!! I only came to watch Kamilla and Angel. I stumbled across Caitlyn when she played South Carolina Gamecocks in the finals. That's the first time I noticed her. So EVERYONE is not watching because of Caitlyn. She's your idol, not mine...
I'm also curious about criteria among voters for ROTY. And, perhaps sad to say, I'm only watching Caitlin's games even though I subscribed to WNBA League Pass and have access to all games.
Then your not really a afficionado of the game : your more of a fan. There's so many players Clark can't hold a candle to but she's all you watch- seriously?
-Angel Reese is currently the only rookie ranking top 25 in PER, Win Shares, Player Offensive Rating, and Player Defensive Rating among all WNBA players. -Angel Reese the fastest player in WNBA history to record 200+ points, 175+ rebounds, and 25+ steals.
I like them both, they both are awesome. Someone has to win it. AR has been very consistent and keeps breaking Rebound Records. Yes CC broke a Triple Record but it has not been consistent. Maybe they will give it to both 😊
@@serafinobueti7154 Well, when people are being fed lies and there are agendas being pushed then they can start to look and sound stupid. But, like always, the media is to blame. They are constantly trying to subvert things and divide us and this is yet the latest example.
-Angel Reese is currently the only rookie ranking top 25 in PER, Win Shares, Player Offensive Rating, and Player Defensive Rating among all WNBA players. -Angel Reese the fastest player in WNBA history to record 200+ points, 175+ rebounds, and 25+ steals.
Is this a joke title? Double double is dime a dozen for front court players. Shes really good, but CC is un league of her own. Triple doubles are tough. By record??? Fever played ALL the best teams up front.
A double double may be a dime a dozen but 13 consecutive double doubles isn't a dime a dozen since no player has gotten that many consecutive DD's since Parker did it back in 2009-10.
Not true (to the host): Angel Reese, is an integral part of the offense and defensive structure of the Sky. You're just comparing a Point guard to a forward. However, in things such as TO's, rookie front court players can get more than guards, cause if/when they get touches, opps guards will poke at the ball and swarm them. So, it's not their "usage rate" that's negatively effecting Clark. It's just her game and/or coach.... Plus, a guard controlling the ball, means they can shoot or pass more, adding to their points and assist total. What you're saying (at worst) is a wash, if not an inherent advantage to Clark. It's not like guards who handle the ball a lot can't stop from turning it over or shooting poorly. It has happened. That's just Clark's rookie season, and something we/she can't hide.
Thanks for making the video! Pretty cool. Its fun watching what is probably the best ROY race ever in the WNBA. Its crazy that its this heated and we havent even hit the olympic break yet.
Sounds like a bunch of bull💩 CC leads 2 of the three big categories points and assist CC has to run the offense get players the ball Reese camps out in the paint let's be honest the league keeping Reese in games lesser name would be fouled out she gets away with a lot only reason anyone talking about Reese winning the award is for rating and jealousy let's not give poor victim Reese the attention a double double for rebounds and points is easy in the league 3 games yesterday 5 players had double double but not one player had double double assist and points you tell me which one harder
Clark: broke or set 12 records, beats Reese in 7 of the top 10 WNBA stats, beats Reese in scoring, beats Reese in game wins, LITERALLY beat Reese in 2 out of 3 games, beats Reese in assists, beat Reese in 3 pointers, mover her the worst team in the WNBA into 7th place over Reese's Sky while Reese has kept Sky stagnant in 8th place (same as last year)... ...so how in the name of all that is good is Angel Reese even in the same conversation as Clark when the only thing she's done has been to put in 13 consecutive double doubles (Clark has 6 out of her last 6 games with double doubles AND set the record for the first tripe double) and that's it? Her team is right back where they started out meaning she's made no contribution to the Sky to move them up (unlike Clark). Somebody please help me out here. What am I missing? Angel Reese lost this weekend and Clark won while breaking FOUR records in ONE game! Four insane WNBA records Caitlin Clark broke on Saturday #4: Fastest WNBA player since 1998 to record 150 career assists. #3: Most double-doubles with assists by a rookie. #2: First WNBA rookie to record a triple-double. #1: First rookie in WNBA history to record 350 points, 100 rebounds, and 150 assists. Clark beat Steph Curry's record for 3 pointers and people are having a meltdown because Reese shot 2 three pointers in a game (what about the 6 three pointers she missed in the same game? LOL)! Clark broke Pistol Pete's Maravich's scoring record!
White People be like: Angel Reese is so mean and full of hate Basically the devil. Every rebound she ever got came from own misses. Who cares about a double double anyone can do that. Now the Beloved Gracious CC She's nothing like those "thugs". She is better than Jordan. She deserves a purple heart. She's better than any athlete ever lived. The only reason CC gets 6 turnovers per game is because Angel Reese bullies her in her head. If it wasn't for CC i wouldn't have the will to live. I wish she would run for president. She has the most class anyone has ever seen. Perfect is an understatement. I wish I was Caitlin Clark.
Watch the DaPope B Frank video. Reese got 14 rebounds vs. Seattle and she never had to box out anybody out to get those rebounds. So much for doing the dirty work. Same goes for Caitlin's 12 rebound game vs. the Liberty. Rebounding in the W is a bogus stat because nobody fights for O boards.
Just wait until the end of the year. Clark will take ROTY. People are just making something out of nothing just for clicks. Who is more fun to watch? Clark
Cases can be made for both. But if you are going to nitpick stats the most overrated stat in the WNBA is Clarks rebounding numbers. She is routinely hidden on defense and put on the opponents weakest offense option which allows her to release for rebounds unabated. Chicago cannot hide Reese on defense.
Reese is a better player she is more impactful and consistent on the court. If this was a popularity contest it would be CC. To bad the fans don't get to vote on ROTY because advance stats are what the real voters will be looking at. It will come down to Win Shares and PER and it clearly has Reese outplaying CC at the moment.
Not having it? Robin, explain the offensive rebounding discrepancy. Pointing this out is not t'taking away' from Reese. It's great that Reese is getting those, she should be, that's her job. The real question is, why were the previous 'stars' not. Wilson, has 1/2 the o boards because her team does not suck from inside the foul line. Reese is not a better rebounder than Wilson. So, you are going to have to explain that 40 some odd offensive rebounding advantage Reese has. Because it does not correlate to the 40 some odd defensive rebounding advantage Wilson has. She is not a better rebounder than Jones, Stewart. Reese has 30% more offensive rebounds than they both have combined. Yet they both have more defensive rebounds than Reese. Could it at all be related to the fact they play on a good team and aren't playing at bricklayer conventions? I think so... This is not suggesting Reese has not played well, it does not mean she is not a good player. It's just that her numbers are an anomaly, and that it is directly correlated to her team's terrible offensive ability close to the rim. 54% inside 5', 32% 5-9'
They did, and that would upset you too, because it's not many. Even if they were, was she supposed to allow another person to get her ball and score. Nonsense comments.
Isn't there still a whole half season to go? Both of them are doing great and impacting their teams. But let's play the whole season out before deciding. And always like your perspective. You are very balanced.
So now we have to explain why Reese advanced stats are better, what the excuse for why Clark have better stats, always gotta be a side note and can’t just give ppl credit, Reese is better in some stats and that’s that, ain’t no “here why”
I think the Fever had probably the hardest schedule to start the season. Especially when you consider the number of games in a short period of time, & quite frankly they weren’t that good at that time. With more practice time they have gotten considerably better. I think Caitlin Clark has a shot at a couple more triple doubles before the end of the season. Reese has been playing very good also, which makes this much more interesting for ROTY.
Why do people care so much about triple doubles? Caitlin scored 11 points in the first quarter of the Liberty game. Getting 12 rebounds and 13 assists were much more significant than her getting 10 points. 10 points is really nothing for her. So, 1/3rd of the triple double is no big deal. The big deal is the assists and rebounds. With Angel, she sometimes gets a significant amount of points and sometimes barely 10. So, again, it's the rebounds that are the big deal. She seems to be able to get 10 points regularly, but not 20. Even Caitlin is having a hard time getting to 20 points recently. Using 10 points as a threshold because "double double" sounds cool just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. What I want to see Caitlin do is score more in the 4Q and get to the foul line more because drawing fouls is a big part of 4Q scoring. You get players in foul trouble and you also get more points for your team and yourself. Triple doubles aren't that important though I'd love to see her get her assists up to 8 on average while keeping decent rebounding. But she doesn't need 10 a game. Let Smith, Boston, and Temi get those.
@@benjaminsmith2287 I think playing two of the better teams in the League so many times at the start of the seasons, with little time for practice kind of skewed things a little. I would like to see Caitlin score more, but that also requires plays (screens) to get her open. I do think she will be high up in assists.
@@SilverShadow2112 You're correct. The first 11 games were the toughest schedule in the league. I think Caitlin is going to have to use her basketball skills to get fouled and go to the line to score. Maybe Temi will help in terms of setting screens for Caitlin's shots. Boston does at times.
@@SilverShadow2112 I think people place way too much pressure and expectations on CC. They thought she would bring college everything to the league, and it take time. She's always been good, but she needed time to adjust. The schedule didn't help at all.
You presented some “facts” sir… however, people here only care about what makes them “feel” culturally superior… Allow me to add some additional content. If was Anastasia Reese from Bismarck North Dakota with Angel Reese’s body of work and La’caitlyn Clark from Atlanta GA with Caitlyn Clark’s body of work, these out of the blue WNBA MAGA warriors would not mention how great “La’caitlyn Clark” was. Definitely would not have Fox News pundits going to bat for her like they do for CC.
How much are Angels stats helped by having Cardozo underneath with her…. Seems to me the space she’s takes up makes it easier fro Reese. Also the double double argument for me as it refers to Reese beating Candace Parker’s record is also not an equal one because Candace scored from the outside with more of her points and also that made her rebounding that much more challenging than Reese who rarely sets up or scores from the outside. In my mind these are issues for the experts to speak to ie not everybody has a 6’7” partner under the basket boxing out
Cardoso is not a threat to a lot of these teams 50% of the time. She lacks aggression. She is a true rookie. She hasn't developed the confidence and go hard mentality like Reese.
That type of on court stat is completely skewed, even though Clark has a lot of turnovers which ultimately hurts offensive rating, over half of them are due to teammates not handling passes, but the TO is credited to Clark. The only stat Reece leads Clark in is rebounds. Clark is currently averaging more Points/Rebounds/Assists than any player has averaged in the league overall. No one has ever averaged the numbers she has in those 3 categories ever…
Please stop the lies. Some of her rebounds are from her own missed shots, not most of them. Not only that, if she is getting her own rebounds, so what.
I appreciate your videos because you focus on substance and you prepare well. Man, there's a TON of crap out there on drama--things taken out of context and exaggerated . . . and poor presentation just to shoot out another video post . . . the time-sucking carnival barkers. So thank you for routinely having thoughtful substance to your video.
Robin Im not saying youre biased but CC is responsible 55 percent of Fever offense by scoring or assisting...Without even looking at stars Ill bet my left leg from the knee down Angel is [ nowhere near ] impacting the Sky like that..Make a video on it and tell us Robin...The Clarkies are waiting...NOTE: CC stats only Magic and Oscar Robertson...Angel's stats have been done by MANY , per Ben Daniel podcast...And Fever WILL finish with a better record than the Sky and theyll be in the top 6...WATCH...And I WONT be surprised if the Fever upset a powerhouse... Sincerely, a Clarkie.
I thought this was going to be a good breakdown of advanced stats but it turned into a video of singing praises for Clark and giving explanations of why her advanced stats aren't on the level as Reese. They're both obviously playing well, but it should be noted how, historically, the leaders of advanced stats (PER and Net Rating) have been the ROTY winners.
You didn't explain Net Rate properly. It is 100 possessions when they are on the floor, not when they are touching the ball. Which makes that stat a poor indicator of individual performance..
Advanced stats. Strettttttttching their imaginations to find just a tiny bit of reality. The world will not end with Reese in second. She will still have her ring. She just is not first. Cut the crap, CC ROTY. Reese can rebound. She does not run the team. Both should be on Olympic team.
The fact that Reese was not even in the discussion and found her way in the discussion is just remarkable. The fact we are getting 2 of the best rookies in the same year is incredible for the game and nobody can be a loser in this race because everybody LITERALLY are winning. CC AR WNBA Ratings Social Engagement just everything
well said
Parker never had the record as a rookie tho😂Reese is different
That was a very bad explanation of efficiency. Generally offensive efficiency is 40-50-90. Clark's offensive efficiency is hurt by her 40% field goal percentage, 33% three point percentage. She's at 88% free throws so that's in line. I still have her as ROY, but her line and the 6 TO per game impact her efficiency much more than her having the ball all the time or the blowouts early in the season. She's an amazing player, there is no shame in acknowledging her full game, warts and all. Same with Reese, there are things she can improve upon. Both of these women are ballin'.
I was explaining Net Rating
Sean, you pulled that out of your ass. Complete garbage. No basketball efficiency breaks 40, 50, 90. 40% 3s is above average and very few players hit 40% who play regularly. 50% FG is too general. It depends on position and how many 3s a player takes. Reese averages .5 FGs more than Caitlin per game but Caitlin average 2.4 more points per game on 1.2 less shots. Caitin is 33.3 from 3 but 53% from 2 where Reese is 41% from 2 and didn't make a 3 until Saturday. Caitlin's shooting is more efficient. Reese's rebound is very good..11
9, but is aided by Cardosa getting doubled. Caitlin's 7.4 assists are very good, and has faced the toughest coverage of any player in the league. Both avg 1.4 steals. Caitlin has .8 blocks, Reese had .3 - how is that even possible. She's a 6'3" Forward. I block per game should occur by accident. Caitlin's rebounds at 6.0 is 2nd of all guards. Angel has 1.8 assists. Low even for a forward. Caitlin is 88.8% FT. Reece I believe is up to high 77-78% FT. Reese is much better with with 1.5 turnovers to Caitlin's 5.4. Lastly, Caitlin is #1 in point production in the WNBA (points and points off assists.) That's efficient.
Sounds like your making excuses
@@johnykilroy5521 explain what he said wrong, I am pretty sure u didn't get anything
@@TheRobinLundbergit’s misleading tho
Skip Bayless says he is picking Angel Rease.
I love this debate because it brings more eyes to these 2 amazing athletes who are dominating in these league. I just wish it wasn't as toxic
U see they don't like Angel Reese and that's sad she's a baby both are babies and playing hard but angel RESSE play both ends of the floor she play the best every night.
@@soccergoal4090 IT WILL ALSO PUSH PEOPLEAWAY
Same.
@@KewonJackson No, they are both 22. That's 4 years beyond the age of maturity, legally. It's just that one of them has a problem acting that way.
How exactly is Reese playing both ways? 'Rebounding' may sound like a defensive stat, but it's kinda broken out today to better represent what it is. Reese has a disproportionate number of offensive rebounds than defensive ones. This is just a matter of poor shooting ability for your team, not extra quality in terms of rebounding prowess. The Sky have the league's lowest shooting from inside 5' @ just 54%! Damn near 1/2 of their layups present a rebound opportunity. They are the 3rd worst from 5'-10' @ 32%! You see the effect this has? A'ja has less than 1/2 as many offensive rebounds than Reese, not because she's not good, it's because her teammates are not missing. Defensively, Reese has 140 rebounds, Clark has 122. Clark is leading the league in this category for all guards.
The WNBA is a post player league, it's just the way it is. The goal is, for all teams, to play through the middle. So explain how Reese only has 6 blocks. She plays in the middle, she's tall, she's long, this is part of her job. If you're going to go all in about how she plays both ends, you need to provide evidence of that, and offensive rebounds is not that. Clark has 17, and is tied for the most in the WNBA for all Guards.
Steals - They have the same number. How is one playing D and the other not? Sure, Clark plays more minutes, but Reese plays in a more contested floor space.
Reese has only been exceptional at offensive rebounding. When her team improves their shooting ability, her numbers are going to suffer for it. Whereas, when Clark's teammates get better, her numbers will only improve. More assists, fewer turnovers...
@@basilfawlty241Angel Reese has 13 double-doubles there's not no conversation to be had
This seems so silly. Its like comparing a goalkeeper in football (soccer) with a forward. They are going to be doing different things. ROTY must be decided relative to the position they place. Obviously because CC223D is a "play maker" she will have the ball for a higher % and in some analysis this is considered "inefficient". Crazy talk.
A midfielder to a forward. Is a better analogy. But ultimately their respective stats needs to be reflected in their league standings.
They think a backup quarterback is more efficient than a quarterback because he throws less interceptions 😂
@@ransom6892 who is they?
@@tonyedwards3938 the standings for the position? Goalkeeper v goalkeeper etc.?
@@AbzScotland Clatk detractors
Lmao it’s starting to sink in Angel going to win ROY. Jokic has won 3 MVPs because of Advanced Stats.
The sportwriters vote ROY and I don't think they'll vote the W ROY based on Advanced Stats. We'll see.
ruclips.net/video/Zm3MyciROnI/видео.html
Yep Reese is clearly the best player.
..
@@SeshatPG82how did Reese win rookie of the month if caitlin is way better lol . Y'all are so slow I swear lol
@@onlylikemindedbwWow! You do know that CC won Rookie of the Month for May don’t you? There’s only so many rookies and each month they have to choose one..😂 what a homer.
The ADVANCED STATS USED BY ESPN are useless. That stats guy used the Hilinger formula, which was designed to measure a teams performance over entire season. "Money Ball" with Brad Pitt was about that formula.
😢
Reese averaged 18 ppg her senior season. She currently averages 14 ppg playing better competition. That's -4 differential. Caitlin averaged 31 ppg her senior season .She now averages 16 ppg . That's a -15 differential in points production playing better competition. Clark's assist rate doesn't make up for that significant of a drop in points production. To be fair , I'll use Angel's -4 differential on Clarks stats. If Clark was only -4 differential in scoring from her last season at Iowa, she'd be averaging 27 ppg. That would put her in the race for league MVP instead of being neck and neck with Reese for ROY. This is why the race for ROY is closer than what people think. Reese should win ROY because of that.🎉
Angel broke the entire LEAGUE RECORD Double Double not just a ROOKIE RECORD. Make that clear!!!!!!
@denisebailey3226 why is it special anyway,does the NBA hold double doubles in the same light?
It's not a game stat, it's a media narrative stat. It's an insultingly low number, It's why the women's leagued have been mocked in the past when they talk about how great everyone has been. As iv tried to explain to you before, and has Paul has just done here as well. The NBA, puts almost no weight on it because its not very meaningful.
How many dunks per/game after eating 10 ihop pancakes pregame, could be a stat too.
But, if the girls want to keep pushing this as an important static, let us know when you get to 227
@@Paul-tc5nrbecause they can’t😂😂. Wilt set it at 227 . No one is touching that number.
It's clear..these clowns just don't want to hear it
No one cares, they hyping this because they can't hype anything else she does. Why? There isn't much else there.
Stats can create narratives that don't really describe truth. Bottom line is ppg/rebounds/assists/steals/blocks/turnovers. Anything else and things get muddy...
Not really if their used intelligently. They put things like pts into perspective: ie maybe a player ( Clark is a example) scores a pretty good amount of points except when needed. All coaches use them
Caitlin is also the highest rebounding guard. And it isn’t close. She is 13th in defensive boards. It is amazing actually. If her shooting efficiency goes back up and she starts generating more points per game, it isn’t even a discussion. The break will help her more than anyone.
You know that DR is much easier to get because a team shoots and you just stand there and grab the miss. Offensive rebounds is much more difficult because you are standing around opposing players and have to hustle for either her miss and teammates misses and put them back in
-Angel Reese is currently the only rookie ranking top 25 in PER, Win Shares, Player Offensive Rating, and Player Defensive Rating among all WNBA players.
-Angel Reese the fastest player in WNBA history to record 200+ points, 175+ rebounds, and 25+ steals.
You think Angel gonna be sleeping knowing Clark will be working during the break? She's got a way higher ceiling than Clark. Clark ceiling is just being able to shoot the 3 at a higher percentage and a little mid range game. As for Angel the Sky is the limit
Hahahaha
😂@@ghsense2626
I don't buy it. Overall performance is all Caitlin Clark
-Angel Reese is currently the only rookie ranking top 25 in PER, Win Shares, Player Offensive Rating, and Player Defensive Rating among all WNBA players.
-Angel Reese the fastest player in WNBA history to record 200+ points, 175+ rebounds, and 25+ steals.
FACTS OVER FEELINGS! 😂
Angel Reese🎉🎉🎉🎉
@@will35719711 odds in Vegas Caitlin way out ahead
Lmao it hurts don’t it
Monica McNutt made the comment before Reese made the history on making 13 consecutive double doubles. Don't fail to mention that!!!!!!! Also, they have 20 more games to go and the Fever had played two more games than the Sky, don't fail to mention that either.
ar gives up more points from playing bad D than points scored from her offensive boards .
I think he forgot there’s been 4097 Double doubles and 35 triple doubles in WNBA history. Takes 117 DD to equal one Triple Dub
Exactly. Both players are good but I just don't think Clark is of Reeses caliber.
@@cruxio02 yo mean CC? AR is in the positive. Lol
@@ransom6892 listen harder, no one has be able to do it consecutively like Reese. Which means she has to work harder due to the team not being the best. You have to look at the teams. This matters. AR has to best offensive and defensive for the team to win. If she takes a break+/- will be minus ratings. Men lie, women lie, numbers don't.
Angel has more impact! Angel set a league record! CC set a rookie record.The sky is a new team. The fever has more All stars and experienced players. So CC is working with more team wise, and AR is working with fewer allstars and experienced players. AR is ROTY
Facts!
Just think if she didn't want to be a team player like angel.
CC could just go out their and pad my stats
She is humble and praised her players all the time.
Watch angel talk it's all about me me
-Angel Reese is currently the only rookie ranking top 25 in PER, Win Shares, Player Offensive Rating, and Player Defensive Rating among all WNBA players.
-Angel Reese the fastest player in WNBA history to record 200+ points, 175+ rebounds, and 25+ steals.
That’s cool / but CC has more steals and points per game than AR …. If AR truly deserves ROTY then great … but if it’s a tie .. then I have to cheer for CC, as a Fever fan!!
@@marceybull You sound like a real fan Much Respect but go #Sky
Breaking records is pretty cool, Creating a record (rookie triple double) is phenomenal!
You do know that's not a record it's an achievement lol 😆 😂 🤣
(1 triple double) no way compares to 13 consecutive double doubles and more on the way. .. . do the math. Which one would you want to have on your team. Reese will be Rookie of the Year!!!!! Reese is breaking league records not just Rookie records!!!!
@@aqilnaqi7901he’s a 🤡, no they don’t know that
I’m an Angel Reese fan, but I must admit, creating a record is impressive.
@@james7985that's not a record it's an achievement
That's complete BS. REESE had the entire Storm team helping her out yesterday. Everyone moved aside so Reese could do her thing unimpeded. Reese is getting major help. from everyone on the floor. Go watch the Storm Sky game to see how Angel is highly favored by both teams.
-Angel Reese is currently the only rookie ranking top 25 in PER, Win Shares, Player Offensive Rating, and Player Defensive Rating among all WNBA players.
-Angel Reese the fastest player in WNBA history to record 200+ points, 175+ rebounds, and 25+ steals.
How many other teams helping this shit player? Not to mention the WNBA hiearchy
delusional 😂😂😂😂😂
@@nolamoneysaver2029 Nice try because if you take another metric than steals and rebounds Cc has her beaten on every other combination involving points and assists.
Cardosa was close to her own double-double and benched. They could have both been successful and won the game
Angel R.- 14.9ppg OR 4.9,DR 7, that's 4.9= 9.8 off. giving her the benefit- 14.9- 4.9 = 10 ppg ,we all know she doesn't pass out that much ,she puts the mss layup back up
Sounds like a computer programmer has too much time on their hands to come up with all of these nonsensical categories to compare players.
Bingo!
It's easy to do
Or it’s basketball and these efficiency ratings have been shown to be actual indicators of a players effective contribution to their team.
No what's silly are the manufactured records for Clark that were never mentioned before thus season : first alleged 6ft ( she's less) brunette who scores 19 pts in the first full moon of July. Lol in case you don't know coaches use advanced stats like pie/pet, plus/minus etc to evaluate their players
Both these young ladies are amazing. You can't go wrong on either way right now. Angel Reese is my ROTY. The only rookie to average double double
Why don’t they consider comparisons of their performances to other players in their positions in the league not just to each other?
Reese ‘broke’ a record already in existence; CC ‘established’ a record never accomplished in the existence of the WNBA. CC record was like capturing a Unicorn in comparison.
KISS THE RING
Um, CC set a rookie record, not a league record. AR broke a record doing it 13 times consecutively. CC did it once
It’s a rookie record now she break the all time triple double record only 13 then she got somthing . But comparing a rookie to a league record is not comparable.
Reese is breaking league records not just Rookie Records!!!!
@@denisebailey3226 And she's BLACK too!! You forgot to add that...
Cause in today's society, isnt that the most important thing?? Being Black??
Candace Parker changed the entire game and positions. She was highly skilled in all areas and played both sides of the floor. From her offense to defense and from her footwork and ball handling skills… before Candace, people were limited to their positions and roles. Candace was a HUGE game changer on the floor for women’s basketball. A goat plays both sides of the floor. Candace played both sides at a HIGHLY skilled level; Taurasi has always played one side of the floor. She has always “pretended” to play defense when she decided to at least fake it.
Caitlyn leads in points, assists, steals, blocks and shooting percentage. Reese only leads in rebounds. Caitlyn is the best all around player putting up historic stats in every category for a rookie point guard. She's easily ROTY.
-Angel Reese is currently the only rookie ranking top 25 in PER, Win Shares, Player Offensive Rating, and Player Defensive Rating among all WNBA players.
-Angel Reese the fastest player in WNBA history to record 200+ points, 175+ rebounds, and 25+ steals.
@@nolamoneysaver2029 Caitlyn is us the ROTY. She's the fastest WNBA player to record over 350 points, 100 rebounds and 150 assists. Put up a triple double while having 3 consecutive double-doubles in points and assists. She's scoring or assisting on over 55% of her team's points. Not to mention her impressive stats in rebounds and steals for a rookie guard. She's ROTY. Period.
-Angel Reese is currently the only rookie ranking top 25 in PER, Win Shares, Player Offensive Rating, and Player Defensive Rating among all WNBA players.
-Angel Reese the fastest player in WNBA history to record 200+ points, 175+ rebounds, and 25+ steals.
Lol 😆 🤣 😂 Angel leads all rookies in steals CC fg% is 39 Reese is 41 🤦🏿 stop putting out false stats
@@aqilnaqi7901 CC is putting up historic stats for a rookie point guard. She's a complete player and is putting up records that no one has ever done. Reading is fundamental.
"Advanced stats" = manufactured stats that favor Reese, it's hilarious! CC is going to have to make it not even close for the rest of the season or the fix is already in. As "woke" USA Today said, "we need to make basketball black again."
Exactly. The WNBA just cannot accept that a hetero classy humble high I.Q. white girl is already the face of the WNBA and put the league on the map single-handedly. The resentment is real.
It’s just baffling that everyone is admiring rebounds so much, and somehow that stat is outweighing every other element of the game.
Because it takes effort and hard work to be a GREAT REBOUNDER …she is undersized in every game ! She plays extremely hard .
Only this season, apparently.
@dschutterrr
First of all, it's not all that there talking about. Sounds like, that's your interpretation, what you want to believe.
Saying all that: Reese, is not just rebounding well for a rookie, she's rebounding well period! That's for starters. She's also scoring at 14 pts a game (and rising); she averages 2 steals a game, and plays great all around defensively (period), but especially for a rookie, and she's already featured in the offense, and her role keeps expanding. She's also not turning the ball over a lot for a rookie, unlike that other Rookie we know about. And more importantly, the game seems to come easier to her the more the Sky plays. With the other girl, it seems the opposite. This is one of the big reasons, Reese leads in almost all of the aforementioned analytics vs Clark.
People who actually understand basketball have always valued rebounds. Welcome to the game though.
@@lavardopennerman5179 oh please- I didn’t say rebounds weren’t valued
AR is not even close, period. I see CC is impacting her team the way it rarely happens. Her play motivates her teammates and the team is getting more bonded and better each game
Robin it’s nothing against AR but you will never get me excited looking at a rebounder that chases after her missed shots and layups. Seeing how CC moves the ball on the court those kamikaze passes that she throws they don’t always land but when they do magic happens. Yes they generate turnovers but I am hopeful that as chemistry improves between her and her teammates there are passes that she won’t attempt or try something different and there are passes that her teammates will learn to receive. I am still hopeful to see her go back to her NCAA heyday and revert to the scoring threat that she was but this time doing it in the WNBA. I have heard that she suffered from an ear injury I am wandering if it is not taking her off from her 3 pointers and scoring game in general because if her balance is slightly impaired it is definitely affecting her scoring ability.
No matter how hard you try, you can’t minimize what Angel does. Even if we assumed that she’s getting rebounds from missed layups, she’s doing what most players can’t do. She’s an athlete. She’s a phenomenal player; Cailin is too, but, some people, including pro basketball players, coaches and other experts believe that she is the front runner for ROTY. Some believe it’s Caitin.
It a good thing the world doesn't revolve around u... ROTY REESE
And AR has beaten CC in almost every matchup in college
@@michelleblanc6377 I promise she's not trying to get you excited...so get over yourself
@@sim2g2013 oh man go buy a dictionary there is more than one sense to the word excited and it does not always a have to do with the brain that you carry in your pants.
They should give ROTY to Angel because she really wants it, and I don't think Caitlin really cares about it.
Say whatever makes you feel better 😂
I’m not so sure Angel really needs to get ROTY. I think she just wants to be recognized for her hard work.
*I think it is way too early for any of these players to be caring about end of season rewards... but it is worth noting that when Angel was named rookie of the month (for have 9 consecutive double-double at the time?,) the every next game CC out of no where gets 12 rebounds. You're still a baby if you think CC is indifferent to rewards and records* 😂
Good thing you aren’t in charge of giving the roty award.
Reese getting her own rebounds is a fact. 129 double doubles for points/rebounds is more common easier (129 in the entire league). Whereas there are 19 Double doubles from point and assists.
Wrong
she gets 13% of her own rebounds. she has 97 offensive rebound.
She leads the league in defensive rebounds. Stop the madness
Even if she is getting her own rebounds. That's wtf you supposed to do dumb @$$. Lol
She literally is breaking a wnba record while Clark breaking a rookie record lol
If you have to parse stats to elevate a losing player (losing in games, losing against Clark, losing standing, etc...), that's already a losing (no pun intended) proposition.
Nobody has to say "Clark is excelling in these particular 2 or 3 stats..." because she's dominating across the board. You have to take ALL the stats to judge a player, not just those that favor either player. I could crush the whole Clark VS Reese with one stat: Clark has broken or set 12 WNBA records while Reese just broker her first a day or two ago in the SAME half season. Marinate on that.
I am still not sure why people ignore defense. Net rating, EFF, and plus minus all favor Angel because she's defending well.
She just guarded Ezi back to back and held her own.
Finally a non biased sports reporter! Thank you! Too many hateful people refuse to give Angel Reese her just do, and credit! Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese, are two elite basketball players! But, too many racist out here that won't give Angel her flowers!
Getting most of your rebounds off your own missed shots should be a counter stat.
Here is the only stat you need. Which player can go on the road, fill not the normal arena, but a larger arena specifically used for just this away team, and fill THAT larger arena, and then get a standing from the AWAY crowd. There is only one nickname that is appropriate for Caitlin- MONEY HONEY
-Angel Reese is currently the only rookie ranking top 25 in PER, Win Shares, Player Offensive Rating, and Player Defensive Rating among all WNBA players.
-Angel Reese the fastest player in WNBA history to record 200+ points, 175+ rebounds, and 25+ steals.
You're right about the impact Clark is having on attendance/butts in the seats but I'm not sure that's not a criterion for ROY.
@@nolamoneysaver2029 this is a serious question...why does she wear a wig?
Did it help CC beat the Storm or the Aces? Nope!
@lennybeason1110 Didnt help Reese beat them either lol , you do know she lost those games too?
Difference is AR doesn’t hurt you or lose possession for her team. CC is amazing offensively but she gives minimal effort on defense and turns the ball over far too often.
Because Angel doesn’t hurt her team in any way I would give the slight nod to her. SLIGHTLY.
I also observed Reese is a better leader and assist in team chemistry. CC is a loner.
The ratings are so bad to relate to.
Clark is better defensively than her team:
107.2 vs 108.4 (Clark is better defensively than her own team's defense)
Angel is too. Unlike Clark, her team is RANKED 5 in defensive rating (but losing that spot over time since Williams went down) so her numbers are high. Her Offensive rating is really high relative to how she actually is would only happen because Chennedy Carter is a ridiculous +20 increase in ORTG by herself. Carter ranks in the top 10 of PER for any player in the league. This means that Carter is so good that they can carry an offense on her own.
Reese has officially dropped any lineup combination by 10 points offensively in rating when you add her in instead of replacing her with a forward on the team (Harrison/ Williams/ etc.) as Reese is a bad offensive player. The "defense" is also not very good since when you pair her with any player, Williams actually ends up having the better defensive rating in place of Angel. Harrison actually has better net rating since she's actually good at scoring, and the defensive side is still good. Unfortunately, Reese is paired next to Harrison so you can't really see how Cardoso does in her place as a comparison and Williams is injured.
Nonetheless, Reese is roughly 7 points worse defensively than Williams (this number is growing as the year goes on) and destroys the offense by 10 points. She is a bad "big" and cannot play alone without someone like Williams or Cardoso there to save her. If she's alone, then her defense is exposed since she does this:
- Allows the most points scored in the paint (even more than most third stringers) at her position.
- Allows the most offensive rebounds + second chance points for the team to collect over her.
- She gives up nearly 32 points per game in the post on defense.
- She fouls the most in the league, and is literally at a 3.9 Fouls Per Game rate. The two over her are basically injured.
Angel is very poor at these things. Numbers don't lie--just the way you choose to read them do.
Angel may be an impressive defensive player on the perimeter (though we have no tracking stats to see how many times she gets blown by), but her post defense is so bad that she's projected to be unplayable as a post defender. She should play the 3 in the future seasons.
😂😂😂
you just made all that shit up.
@@whatisit-d8b I did not.
The issue isn't who they picked, the issue is why they picked that person based off of the "variables" they used for the criteria.
1) Standings. There is no merit in using this to determine a ROY for a sport. Otherwise, Wemby wouldn't have had it over Chet. Nobody has ever used standings as an assessment.
2) Net Rating between two different teams. This is an issue with using advanced stats incorrectly. All the net rating/ defensive rating/ offensive ratings provide to a team is the way players mesh together in lineups. You cannot use it to compare players relative to other teams over the course of the season because that makes absolutely no sense--not only due to team defense being different, but also team pacing and playing styles being different. The stats do not conform to this measure, though.
Clark's defensive rating is 107.2
The Team DEF rating is 108.4
This suggests that Clark is a better defensive player than the team's average. This means that on the team, Clark's a great defensive player. The numbers match the eye test as good defenders are shown this way: Temi (103), Hull (103), Boston (107) and bad defenders are worse for their rating; Smith (108.5) and Mitchell (109.5) are two examples.
In regards to the net rating (overall), the Fever have been blown out by teams like 8 times this year, so obviously the net values would be insanely low given that reality--they have mostly won in clutch game situations and haven't truly had a massive swing in their favor to boost the stats. So, this is why they're at this position.
Reese hasn't been blown out as much, I believe 1 game, and she's been on the team that blows out the other team--her numbers are definitely boosted to a better stature due to that. Her team's defensive rating is 100, which makes that team have a bigger gap compared to the team that is the bottom of defense. Regarding this "net rating" spectacle, we would then have silly conversations of Reese being better than Aja because of her number being higher despite that being true. The reality is that you only use these numbers to compare players on the same team relative to the team defensive metrics. Using it for other purposes just makes it seem insidious and trying to push a false narrative.
Much like Clark, Reese is a better defensive player on her team than her team's net average--whatever that number may be. So, we're basically going to have to discuss defense differently since both players have "defensive" ability relative to their team.
3) According to them, Angel's numbers are "grown women" stats and efficiency is higher--or whatever narrative they try to push her as a better player at her position or relative to Clark. I feel, related to the commentator, this is incorrect. It is also a sad way to try to argue your case for a player.
Season averages suggest that Clark's on pace to shatter records and make history.
Reese is not on pace to shatter records or create history. Her pace is actually third best among rookies towards the set records. She's not doing anything "new" for her position either.
Angel is on pace to have her shot blocked the most by any post player, on pace to lead the league in fouls, on pace to have one of the lowest shooting efficiencies for a post player of that ilk, and several others. Clark's going to break the turnover record and probably any other shooting woes like most misses or whatever that rookies have set before. Those are historic lowlights for both players that make them seem like they're not the best they are.
But reality is that Angel's a great rebounder and is on pace to average a great deal of rebounds--regardless of how they are garnered or padded or whatever the complexity of her rebounds come about. She's on pace to have a top 5 rebounding push. The double-double (consecutive) streak is a record; although she doesn't have a single season record yet. After all, a lot of players have averaged double-double figures for a season before. And there are three players with more total rebounds as a rookie than she has right now in history.
Her defensive numbers are a little inflated given that her post defense is actually pretty poor for someone being a post player. Therefore, she is positionally inferior at defense relative for her position. Even her own team has better post defenders than her available (injured or not) to replace her value. She shoots near the bottom of her own team (the worst shooting team in the league) and ranks pretty low in the league at her position in shooting splits. So, offensively and defensively, she's actually pretty bad towards both qualities. I wouldn't really call them grown numbers, either as they're basically lying about that.
14 points on 41% at 13 attempts. (4.1 from FTM) and among FORWARDS, she ranks:
Points - 9th
Rebounds - 1st
FG% - 40th
FTM - 3rd
AST - 19th
T/Os - 18th
Steals - 9th
Blocks - 28th
Fouls - 3rd
BPM (For her position) - 20th
ORTG - 25th
DRTG - 28th
TS% - 47th
She ranks near the bottom for giving up 2nd Chance Points, Points in the Paint, and Fast Break Points for her position.
For her position, she actually doesn't rank that well relative to the forwards in the league.
Clark, meanwhile, ranks better:
Points - 11th
Rebounds - 2nd
AST - 1st
FG% - 44th
FTM - 6th
T/Os - 1st
Steals - 9th
Blocks - 3rd
Fouls - 4th
TS% - 13th
ORTG/ DRTG - beyond top 50.
Meanwhile, Clark actually ranks top in her position for a few categories... Her abilities are shown better (even with the low RTG for O/D due to team structure)
When you compare them:
Reese is a higher level of a ppg scorer on a bottom tier efficiency rate.
Clark is a lower scorer for her position, but on an elite efficiency rate.
Reese is a good rebounder.
Clark is a good rebounder, only Bonner had higher stats than her.
Reese ranks near the bottom for her defensive abilities at her position.
Clark has high values for "steals/ blocks" at her position, but the metrics for advanced stats rank her lower than her position.
For the 12 players in the league that start, Clark would rank as a starter for her position on practically all of the stats. Which make her far more valuable than the other players.
For the position that Reese occupies, she probably wouldn't really classify as a starter given how poor her metrics represent her--they suggest that you can find more effective players with that skillset combo, besides rebounding.
If you want defense, then Reese isn't it for a big. If you want scoring, then Reese's shooting percentage doesn't make her a good scorer--just a volume shooter. All she ranks highly in is rebounding, fouling people, and shooting free throws against teams. As stated before, neither player hurts your team in the advanced stats side since both Clark and Reese are better defensively than their team defense is currently. They're good defenders. So, regardless of the scheme, both players can be effective on defense. One player is more able to do things on her own though, where as the other seems vastly dependent on team defensive schemes. Offensively, Clark is simply the better option since she not only scores at a better rate, but she provides scoring options for other players as well.
Reese is flawed in comparison to Clark for those reasons. Besides rebounding + drawing fouls (mercy of the refs), she doesn't impact the game in any unique way that helps her at her position. She is a glorified role player and doesn't add any significant impact over an atypical forward of the league. More so, she is a vulnerable piece that relies on a standard forward to protect her glaring flaws.
Clark is on the other hand able to provide two elite skill-sets among others that benefit every team.
4) You can't simply argue that someone works harder, or has more duties in a game, when the reality is that the players are uniquely proportioned to their position and the performance related to it.
Yes Reese ranks higher in NET RATINGs than Clark. No, she's not better than Clark because of it. The team is simply a better defensive/ offensive team than Clark's team.
Yes Clark ranks higher in PPG. No, she's not entirely better at getting PPG than Reese. The reality is that Clark's more efficiently scoring that PPG than Reese is--her value is that Clark's shots are more productive than the points that Reese scores in a game. Reese, however, has an easier path to scoring per game than Clark. After all, 97% of her shots are near the rim. 30% of her points come from the free throw. Clark has to work much harder for her PPG on the other hand, hence why her scoring is on a vastly different scale and fluctuates as much as it does.
Without referencing the coverages or defense that they face, the reality is that Clark is working far harder in a game than Reese is. She's elite in many facets and Reese is suboptimal at many facets.
5) Based off of the data, the rookie of the year is pretty much Caitlin Clark's to lose at this point. Stats suggest that her season is far more superior, even without referencing the historic values of her projections. Reese is merely a basic top 20 player at her position... Someone elite at one thing, and sub-optimal at others. Clark is having a season where she's elite at multiple things, especially for her own position.
Angel has the highest efficiency of any rookie. Period. CC stats are behind Angels.
I agree people shouldn’t discredit Reese. But people are angry bc the media is not fairly representing them - it’s all about angel. Same with the players in the league
Efficiency is a major component of advanced stats, angel will be more efficient because she handles the ball probably 60-70 percent less than CC. But look at the pace each team is on and this year compared to lasts year. The Fever are on pace to win more games this year than last and the sky are slightly behind last year. Who is actually making their team better?
Angel is
Clark's plus/minus ranking is bottom of the league- Reeses us near the top. The Fever do worse when she is on the court and better when on the bench: its the opposite with Reese. Clark fans forget how when no one would pass het the ball against the Dream they won:give her the ball and they would have lost. Other 'advanced " ( their not really advanced: bootstrap theory for instance is) stats like p.i.e. also indicate her weakness beneath a occasional surface glitter.
Sky has basically all new players... Its a young team... Fever is what you would call a young team team as well but they have 3 first round draft picks.. Last years rookie of the year and one of the leagues best scorers with mitchell ... Stop it
Robin, she really isn't leading FORWARDS in advanced stats for the third stringers.
I don't really think people know how stats work. She is rated as the "third" worst on her own team in ratings, for the advanced stats.
Angel's actually only good at REBOUNDING, like generationally good at it--even though you could make an argument that the rebounds are inflated:
- CHI is the worst shooting team that shoots 80% of their shots for 2s.
- Angel is a 40% shooting that shoots 97% of her shots near the rim.
- Cardoso shoots 44% near the rim too, at the same high rate of 98% of her shots there.
- Mabrey is shooting basically worse than Angel at like 38% off the floor.
- There are two players shooting 25% on the floor. lmao.
This is VERY bad for a team to do all this. By the way.
Angel is also "getting" rebounds from her own shots being blocked + her own misses--which is why REESE and CARDOSO are historically HIGH for offensive rebounds.
Literally, she's TERRIBLE at the rebounding on the defensive end since she ACTUALLY gives up the most second chance points among forwards in the league. She allows opponents to score more than her, which is why she's so mid at defensive rebounds--a lot of teams have backed off crashing the glass because Carter burns them in transition offense.
This is why the entire picture is so jarring because Reese is literally padding the rebounds--her whole team is SO bad that you literally get 8 rebounds per quarter with them.
There's so much wrong with this silly, nonfactual post. But I'll let others argue with such buffoonery, not me.
@@msl5253 Do you have facts to back your claim?
Look and research the numbers, you'll find it true.
@@Vadimony
Of course we do. But yours are wrong. So wrong. But I'll deal with yours (if at all), after I've had a drink. We already know your type.
In a nutshell: This is why Reeses is the leading Candidate for ROTY, and leads in all the Analytics over Clark. But keep cherry picking statistics. SMH/LMAO!!
See ya.
@@msl5253 Actually, you're wrong. I listed why Reese isn't the ROTY and why she's actually worse than a bench player at her very own position in the league.
There are 12 teams and she ranks somewhere around the 30 to 20 in forwards around the league. Technically, she would be even lower on her own team.
@@Vadimony Yawn/Whatever you say.
She's the leading candidate for a reason.
Keep hallucinating/making a fool of yourself. LMAO/ROFL/Geesh!!!
In Reese's 13 straight double-doubles her team is 5-8 -- in Clark's triple-double, and all of her near triple doubles, her team is undefeated. One of them is stat padding (adding rebounds on your own missed shots), and the other is making her teammates better. What's the definition of a great player again? Historically, it has been someone who makes their teammates better. Can you be rookie of the year, if you aren't a great player?
The only problem I have with her analysis, if you're going to use that metric, it should be based on position. CC is a guard, which Angel Reese is not. Hence, that is comparing apples to oranges. Therefore, IMO, the argument is misplaced.
To show you how bogus Net rating is: there are 38 players ranked better than Aja Wilson. 115 out of 150 players are ranked better than Arike. 103 players ranked better than Derica Hamby. Kate Martin is ranked higher than all the starters on the Fever. In fact, 67% of WNBA players are ranked better than every one of the Fever staring 5! How do the Fever ever win a game with such lousy bunch of players much less being the 7th seed? It is a bogus data point that does a disservice to the word “advanced”. And saying Angel Reese is better than Clark because of her net rating is a joke.
Simple solution to the argument. How many double doubles and how many triple doubles have ever been accomplished in the WNBA? Bet it’s close to 200 to 1. I think there have only been 30 triple doubles in the WNBA history.
Angel Reese leads the WNBA in blocked shots on days when a red car is parked in the parking lot on the second row.
HA nice....you beat me to this type of post !!!
Although I still think CC is the clear ROTY, I'm really beginning to think that no matter what happens the W is going to award them as Co-ROTY just like Grant Hill and Jason Kidd back in the day
In the history of the WNBA there have been over 4,000 Double Doubles … and it’s climbing rapidly. On the other hand, there have only been 35 Triple Doubles in league history. That makes it more than One-Hundred Times rarer to achieve a Triple Double … and Caitlin Clark did it in 22 games. 😏
Then CC should be averaging a double double since it’s so easy!
@@lennybeason1110Hell everyone should
In the history of the league only one person has had 13 consecutive dbl dbls and that’s Angel Reese.
@@lennybeason1110she kinda is ..im thinking shes gonna break do 13 straight to..shes has 6 straight now
@@jeffmorency3224 CC is nowhere near averaging a double double!
None of that takes into account that Caitlin played 11 games in 20 days with two back-to-backs during that time. The second games of those back-to-backs were in Vegas and in New York. I'd like to see her efficiency rating since that stretch.
Bc that's life. I wish that the Lakers didn't play Denver in the playoffs.
@@BrianDuplessis-mh4nk That's an absolutely brilliant reply!
In the history of the WNBA how many teams have been bad enough that they let a rookie play point guard 38 minutes a game to pad her stats?
The only place Reese top Caitlin is on rebounds.
Steals too
-Angel Reese is currently the only rookie ranking top 25 in PER, Win Shares, Player Offensive Rating, and Player Defensive Rating among all WNBA players.
-Angel Reese the fastest player in WNBA history to record 200+ points, 175+ rebounds, and 25+ steals.
You forgot steals, fg%, plus minus, ftm, fta, offensive rating, defensive rating, less turnovers
@@nolamoneysaver2029and CC is the only rookie in the top 20 in stats. Are we going to ignore overall stats now?
@@aqilnaqi7901 Cark 2p% (51%) Reese(42%).. Reese only has a higher overall FG% cause Clark shoots 3's..Reese doesnt.
What metrics do they normally use to choose ROTY? So, if they usually use net metrics then so be it. But, it makes no difference. Almost everyone is watching WNBA solely because of Caitlin Clark. I have never watched Angel Reese unless they are playing Indiana Fever. And I will still watch only Caitlin Clark whether she is ROTY or not.
Wrong!!! I only came to watch Kamilla and Angel. I stumbled across Caitlyn when she played South Carolina Gamecocks in the finals. That's the first time I noticed her. So EVERYONE is not watching because of Caitlyn. She's your idol, not mine...
I'm also curious about criteria among voters for ROTY. And, perhaps sad to say, I'm only watching Caitlin's games even though I subscribed to WNBA League Pass and have access to all games.
@@REB6509damn you missed out on camron brink sadly she got hurt
I can tell you they don’t use the if Brucedixon is watching metric I can bet they don’t know or give a phucking about who you are..
Then your not really a afficionado of the game : your more of a fan. There's so many players Clark can't hold a candle to but she's all you watch- seriously?
Now the fever are ahead so now we will
Move the goal post😊
-Angel Reese is currently the only rookie ranking top 25 in PER, Win Shares, Player Offensive Rating, and Player Defensive Rating among all WNBA players.
-Angel Reese the fastest player in WNBA history to record 200+ points, 175+ rebounds, and 25+ steals.
CC made that stats with extremely guarded all the time! while AR just sleeping under the basket waiting the ball to fall.😊✌️
I like them both, they both are awesome. Someone has to win it. AR has been very consistent and keeps breaking Rebound Records. Yes CC broke a Triple Record but it has not been consistent. Maybe they will give it to both 😊
Dude, you have officially jumped the shark with this pandering, click-bait title. People are not stupid; they know what they are seeing.
A lot of people are stupid, though.
@@serafinobueti7154 Well, when people are being fed lies and there are agendas being pushed then they can start to look and sound stupid. But, like always, the media is to blame. They are constantly trying to subvert things and divide us and this is yet the latest example.
AR DOES HAVE ADVANCED STATS ON CC,BIGGEST CRYBABY,BIGGEST INFLATED EGO, FIRST TO CRY'SPECIAL WHISTLE', HIGHEST AT CONVERTING HER OWN MISSES,REBOUNDS?
-Angel Reese is currently the only rookie ranking top 25 in PER, Win Shares, Player Offensive Rating, and Player Defensive Rating among all WNBA players.
-Angel Reese the fastest player in WNBA history to record 200+ points, 175+ rebounds, and 25+ steals.
@@nolamoneysaver2029they can’t debunk these facts!
You need some milk
She right about the special whistle.
Is this a joke title?
Double double is dime a dozen for front court players. Shes really good, but CC is un league of her own. Triple doubles are tough. By record??? Fever played ALL the best teams up front.
A double double may be a dime a dozen but 13 consecutive double doubles isn't a dime a dozen since no player has gotten that many consecutive DD's since Parker did it back in 2009-10.
If they were a dime a dozen she wouldn’t have broken the record. Look, a lot of people get double doubles, but not many can be consistent with them.
Not true (to the host): Angel Reese, is an integral part of the offense and defensive structure of the Sky. You're just comparing a Point guard to a forward. However, in things such as TO's, rookie front court players can get more than guards, cause if/when they get touches, opps guards will poke at the ball and swarm them. So, it's not their "usage rate" that's negatively effecting Clark. It's just her game and/or coach.... Plus, a guard controlling the ball, means they can shoot or pass more, adding to their points and assist total. What you're saying (at worst) is a wash, if not an inherent advantage to Clark. It's not like guards who handle the ball a lot can't stop from turning it over or shooting poorly. It has happened. That's just Clark's rookie season, and something we/she can't hide.
This is turning into a ridiculous debate. This could be over before the Olympic break.
Thanks for making the video! Pretty cool. Its fun watching what is probably the best ROY race ever in the WNBA. Its crazy that its this heated and we havent even hit the olympic break yet.
Sounds like a bunch of bull💩 CC leads 2 of the three big categories points and assist CC has to run the offense get players the ball Reese camps out in the paint let's be honest the league keeping Reese in games lesser name would be fouled out she gets away with a lot only reason anyone talking about Reese winning the award is for rating and jealousy let's not give poor victim Reese the attention a double double for rebounds and points is easy in the league 3 games yesterday 5 players had double double but not one player had double double assist and points you tell me which one harder
It's going to be okay 👍
I know betting odds are not determinative, but currently CC has an 85% chance to win (-700). How does these odds relate to reality?
4:32 the problem is they called that a debate. Where was the debate?
If CC doesn’t get ROTY, MAGA will cause another January 6th.
Clark: broke or set 12 records, beats Reese in 7 of the top 10 WNBA stats, beats Reese in scoring, beats Reese in game wins, LITERALLY beat Reese in 2 out of 3 games, beats Reese in assists, beat Reese in 3 pointers, mover her the worst team in the WNBA into 7th place over Reese's Sky while Reese has kept Sky stagnant in 8th place (same as last year)...
...so how in the name of all that is good is Angel Reese even in the same conversation as Clark when the only thing she's done has been to put in 13 consecutive double doubles (Clark has 6 out of her last 6 games with double doubles AND set the record for the first tripe double) and that's it? Her team is right back where they started out meaning she's made no contribution to the Sky to move them up (unlike Clark).
Somebody please help me out here. What am I missing?
Angel Reese lost this weekend and Clark won while breaking FOUR records in ONE game!
Four insane WNBA records Caitlin Clark broke on Saturday
#4: Fastest WNBA player since 1998 to record 150 career assists.
#3: Most double-doubles with assists by a rookie.
#2: First WNBA rookie to record a triple-double.
#1: First rookie in WNBA history to record 350 points, 100 rebounds, and 150 assists.
Clark beat Steph Curry's record for 3 pointers and people are having a meltdown because Reese shot 2 three pointers in a game (what about the 6 three pointers she missed in the same game? LOL)!
Clark broke Pistol Pete's Maravich's scoring record!
White People be like: Angel Reese is so mean and full of hate Basically the devil. Every rebound she ever got came from own misses. Who cares about a double double anyone can do that. Now the Beloved Gracious CC She's nothing like those "thugs". She is better than Jordan. She deserves a purple heart. She's better than any athlete ever lived. The only reason CC gets 6 turnovers per game is because Angel Reese bullies her in her head. If it wasn't for CC i wouldn't have the will to live. I wish she would run for president. She has the most class anyone has ever seen. Perfect is an understatement. I wish I was Caitlin Clark.
Watch the DaPope B Frank video. Reese got 14 rebounds vs. Seattle and she never had to box out anybody out to get those rebounds. So much for doing the dirty work. Same goes for Caitlin's 12 rebound game vs. the Liberty. Rebounding in the W is a bogus stat because nobody fights for O boards.
Just wait until the end of the year. Clark will take ROTY.
People are just making something out of nothing just for clicks.
Who is more fun to watch?
Clark
Props for a balanced presentation. 👍😎👍
Thanks! 👍
Cases can be made for both.
But if you are going to nitpick stats the most overrated stat in the WNBA is Clarks rebounding numbers. She is routinely hidden on defense and put on the opponents weakest offense option which allows her to release for rebounds unabated.
Chicago cannot hide Reese on defense.
In the month of July Angel leads all rookie in points rebounds 2nd in steals and blocks 1st in fg% pie offensive and defensive rating
Reese is a better player she is more impactful and consistent on the court. If this was a popularity contest it would be CC. To bad the fans don't get to vote on ROTY because advance stats are what the real voters will be looking at. It will come down to Win Shares and PER and it clearly has Reese outplaying CC at the moment.
Not having it? Robin, explain the offensive rebounding discrepancy. Pointing this out is not t'taking away' from Reese. It's great that Reese is getting those, she should be, that's her job. The real question is, why were the previous 'stars' not.
Wilson, has 1/2 the o boards because her team does not suck from inside the foul line. Reese is not a better rebounder than Wilson. So, you are going to have to explain that 40 some odd offensive rebounding advantage Reese has. Because it does not correlate to the 40 some odd defensive rebounding advantage Wilson has.
She is not a better rebounder than Jones, Stewart. Reese has 30% more offensive rebounds than they both have combined. Yet they both have more defensive rebounds than Reese. Could it at all be related to the fact they play on a good team and aren't playing at bricklayer conventions? I think so...
This is not suggesting Reese has not played well, it does not mean she is not a good player. It's just that her numbers are an anomaly, and that it is directly correlated to her team's terrible offensive ability close to the rim. 54% inside 5', 32% 5-9'
Someone should get the stats on how many of Reese's rebounds are from her own missed shots. I would really like to know the number.
They did, and that would upset you too, because it's not many. Even if they were, was she supposed to allow another person to get her ball and score. Nonsense comments.
if everything you do is historical it means that whoever was there before wasn't that great
Isn't there still a whole half season to go? Both of them are doing great and impacting their teams. But let's play the whole season out before deciding. And always like your perspective. You are very balanced.
Going to stop comparing C.C. to Jordan, LeBron, Larry Bird, etc.
The only athlete it makes sense to compare her with is Jesse Owens.
Good take both players are great this is such a great time for womens sports
So now we have to explain why Reese advanced stats are better, what the excuse for why Clark have better stats, always gotta be a side note and can’t just give ppl credit, Reese is better in some stats and that’s that, ain’t no “here why”
I think the Fever had probably the hardest schedule to start the season.
Especially when you consider the number of games in a short period of time, & quite frankly they weren’t that good at that time.
With more practice time they have gotten considerably better.
I think Caitlin Clark has a shot at a couple more triple doubles before the end of the season.
Reese has been playing very good also, which makes this much more interesting for ROTY.
Why do people care so much about triple doubles? Caitlin scored 11 points in the first quarter of the Liberty game. Getting 12 rebounds and 13 assists were much more significant than her getting 10 points. 10 points is really nothing for her. So, 1/3rd of the triple double is no big deal. The big deal is the assists and rebounds.
With Angel, she sometimes gets a significant amount of points and sometimes barely 10. So, again, it's the rebounds that are the big deal. She seems to be able to get 10 points regularly, but not 20. Even Caitlin is having a hard time getting to 20 points recently. Using 10 points as a threshold because "double double" sounds cool just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. What I want to see Caitlin do is score more in the 4Q and get to the foul line more because drawing fouls is a big part of 4Q scoring. You get players in foul trouble and you also get more points for your team and yourself. Triple doubles aren't that important though I'd love to see her get her assists up to 8 on average while keeping decent rebounding. But she doesn't need 10 a game. Let Smith, Boston, and Temi get those.
@@benjaminsmith2287
I think playing two of the better teams in the League so many times at the start of the seasons, with little time for practice kind of skewed things a little. I would like to see Caitlin score more, but that also requires plays (screens) to get her open. I do think she will be high up in assists.
@@SilverShadow2112 You're correct. The first 11 games were the toughest schedule in the league. I think Caitlin is going to have to use her basketball skills to get fouled and go to the line to score. Maybe Temi will help in terms of setting screens for Caitlin's shots. Boston does at times.
@@SilverShadow2112 I think people place way too much pressure and expectations on CC. They thought she would bring college everything to the league, and it take time. She's always been good, but she needed time to adjust. The schedule didn't help at all.
You presented some “facts” sir… however, people here only care about what makes them “feel” culturally superior… Allow me to add some additional content. If was Anastasia Reese from Bismarck North Dakota with Angel Reese’s body of work and La’caitlyn Clark from Atlanta GA with Caitlyn Clark’s body of work, these out of the blue WNBA MAGA warriors would not mention how great “La’caitlyn Clark” was. Definitely would not have Fox News pundits going to bat for her like they do for CC.
Most people have a tendency , unfortunate but true to root for their own color: in a better world that wouldn't be true.
How much are Angels stats helped by having Cardozo underneath with her…. Seems to me the space she’s takes up makes it easier fro Reese. Also the double double argument for me as it refers to Reese beating Candace Parker’s record is also not an equal one because Candace scored from the outside with more of her points and also that made her rebounding that much more challenging than Reese who rarely sets up or scores from the outside. In my mind these are issues for the experts to speak to ie not everybody has a 6’7” partner under the basket boxing out
really because Reese did it in half a season, Candace did it over 2 seasons. points are points no matter from where they are score,
Cardoso is not a threat to a lot of these teams 50% of the time. She lacks aggression. She is a true rookie. She hasn't developed the confidence and go hard mentality like Reese.
That type of on court stat is completely skewed, even though Clark has a lot of turnovers which ultimately hurts offensive rating, over half of them are due to teammates not handling passes, but the TO is credited to Clark. The only stat Reece leads Clark in is rebounds. Clark is currently averaging more Points/Rebounds/Assists than any player has averaged in the league overall. No one has ever averaged the numbers she has in those 3 categories ever…
😂😂😂😂😂
Reese's rebounds are from her own missed shots and CC's turnover is because her teammates can't seem to catch the ball.
Please stop the lies. Some of her rebounds are from her own missed shots, not most of them. Not only that, if she is getting her own rebounds, so what.
I appreciate your videos because you focus on substance and you prepare well. Man, there's a TON of crap out there on drama--things taken out of context and exaggerated . . . and poor presentation just to shoot out another video post . . . the time-sucking carnival barkers. So thank you for routinely having thoughtful substance to your video.
Thanks!
It's just a 🎮 a child's game 😂😂😂
@@BrianDuplessis-mh4nk , Glad you find yourself amusing… 😏🙄😏
They giving out participation awards for Reese, thats not a good thing and its a shame. Doesn't help anyone.
Robin Im not saying youre biased but CC is responsible 55 percent of Fever offense by scoring or assisting...Without even looking at stars Ill bet my left leg from the knee down Angel is [ nowhere near ] impacting the Sky like that..Make a video on it and tell us Robin...The Clarkies are waiting...NOTE: CC stats only Magic and Oscar Robertson...Angel's stats have been done by MANY , per Ben Daniel podcast...And Fever WILL finish with a better record than the Sky and theyll be in the top 6...WATCH...And I WONT be surprised if the Fever upset a powerhouse... Sincerely, a Clarkie.
I thought this was going to be a good breakdown of advanced stats but it turned into a video of singing praises for Clark and giving explanations of why her advanced stats aren't on the level as Reese.
They're both obviously playing well, but it should be noted how, historically, the leaders of advanced stats (PER and Net Rating) have been the ROTY winners.
I was answering a comment that’s the point…there are all sorts of advanced stats not one or two…Angel having an excellent season
I don't think the sportwriters would do it but I would love to see co-ROY just to piss off the AR fans and the CC fans. 🙂
I think they really just should not be compared.
You didn't explain Net Rate properly. It is 100 possessions when they are on the floor, not when they are touching the ball. Which makes that stat a poor indicator of individual performance..
I explicitly stated Caitlin’s is hurt by being on the floor the whole game and early blowouts
Shouldn’t assists be worth more than rebounds, as assists are definite points while rebounds are just maybe points?
This is BS. Clark is ROTY. She’s doing a lot more at a different level.
cc gets a lot of rebounds to.
They can not let it go,,, gahdam… my boy choking up and stuttering to give Angel her credit. S
Breaking a rookie record vs breaking a league record….. come on now
Angel has the highest efficiency and net rating. CC is behind in both..
Advanced stats. Strettttttttching their imaginations to find just a tiny bit of reality. The world will not end with Reese in second. She will still have her ring. She just is not first. Cut the crap, CC ROTY. Reese can rebound. She does not run the team. Both should be on Olympic team.