This is an excellent companion to reading the great "Dealers of Lightning" about that time at PARC. Now as long ago as the time they talk about was then.
at 59:00 Butler Lampson, talking about the longevity of an original e-mail program called Laurel developed at Xerox PARC while discussing his current project, along with Charles Thacker and Alan Kay, of a tablet computer called the Dynabook in 2001: "Laurel was an interesting example of something we all have to learn over and over again. Chuck [Thacker] and I have been learning it for the seventh or eigth time in connection with this tablet [Dynabook], which is that user interface design is hard, and the only way to do it that I know is to do it over and over again. Because nobody is smart enough to know beforehand what is really going to work and what isn't. If you're a talented designer you can cut out a lot of the crap, but a lot is going to be left. And then the only way I know to deal with that is to try it again and again. The Laurel user interface is extremely simple appearing, but it took about a year and a half to design. A several points along the way I thought the guys were wasting their time, but I was completely wrong. It's funny that after 30 years we have not learned, as far as I can tell, any better than we could in the 1970s. It just takes incredible amounts of iteration."
Yeah. The engineers in the R&D department @ Xerox were reeeeeaaaaaal smart. Smart enough to be @ the mother of all demos in 1968. RIP Douglas Engelbart.
Indeed, but one must not forget that the Alto was quite crude in comparison. Some important UI inventions were done at Apple during the development of the Lisa and the Mac: Drag-and-drop, and pull-down menus, for instance. Which we take for granted today. but the Alto or Star didn't have.
head honchos at Xerox back then had no clue about what thier developers actually developed with the Alto. WAY ahead of its time. Xerox missed the opportunity of a lifetime. Instead of Apple..Google...or Android..or any of it....could of and should of been lowly ole Xerox. Oh well. Thier loss.
No, they didn't miss an opportunity, since the required chips (CPU, RAM, IO) weren't fast enough nor cheap enough before 1984. Also, see 52:01. researchers are famously *not* the people needed to write shippable hardware and software.
@@RonJohn63 Imagine trying to find a market that believed in the cost benefit for the Xerox Alto. It must have been difficult to know what you have and not have a clue how to get a mass market for it. As you said it required killer apps and massproducable components.
WTF, that looks like a slim low powered Tablet back in 2001. WTF, yes i know ther was Windows XP Tablets back then but they were a joke. These guys are so lucky.
The sound on this recording is really awful. This is what happens when people think that "we don't need a sound technician, we'll just turn on the equipment and record!"
Or - there is a sound technician but they insist on using lavalier microphones which could be useless in some live venues. This is for sure the oldest comment I have ever replied to. Hope you are well, Geir.
Actually, the original vision for the Alto (or one of them) was to shrink it into a tablet form eventually. That's why it had a portrait screen. I forget which of the original developers mentioned this.
I really don’t understand. If Parc were so awesome, why didn’t they break away from Xerox and form their own company ? At least, they wouldn’t see all their inventions being stolen due to the stupidity of some folks at the top.
This is an excellent companion to reading the great "Dealers of Lightning" about that time at PARC. Now as long ago as the time they talk about was then.
Brilliant people who paved the way for us :) Thank you
at 59:00 Butler Lampson, talking about the longevity of an original e-mail program called Laurel developed at Xerox PARC while discussing his current project, along with Charles Thacker and Alan Kay, of a tablet computer called the Dynabook in 2001: "Laurel was an interesting example of something we all have to learn over and over again.
Chuck [Thacker] and I have been learning it for the seventh or eigth time in connection with this tablet [Dynabook], which is that user interface design is hard, and the only way to do it that I know is to do it over and over again.
Because nobody is smart enough to know beforehand what is really going to work and what isn't. If you're a talented designer you can cut out a lot of the crap, but a lot is going to be left. And then the only way I know to deal with that is to try it again and again.
The Laurel user interface is extremely simple appearing, but it took about a year and a half to design. A several points along the way I thought the guys were wasting their time, but I was completely wrong. It's funny that after 30 years we have not learned, as far as I can tell, any better than we could in the 1970s. It just takes incredible amounts of iteration."
Nice to see the trail blazers and hear their stories.
Yeah. The engineers in the R&D department @ Xerox were reeeeeaaaaaal smart. Smart enough to be @ the mother of all demos in 1968. RIP Douglas Engelbart.
ComputerHistory you should make a transcript so people can be able to reference when students do research behind the history of the Personal Computer.
I would die of wisdom if i was in that room. I realised halfway that the audience comprised of many of the legends of Silicon Valley.
施乐公司帕洛阿尔托研究中心（PARC）成立于1970年，在相对较短的时间内创造了一个计算模式的转变。现代个人计算机中的许多技术，包括以窗口和图标为特征的高质量图形用户界面、计算机生成的位图图形、以太网网络化分布式计算和激光打印，在1970年代末都是PARC的成熟技术。
使用这些技术的平台是1973年在PARC开发的施乐公司的奥托（Alto）个人电脑。尽管以今天的标准来看，奥托（Alto）电脑又小又慢，但它的灵活性使它成为硬件和软件实验的理想系统。
在这次演讲中，奥托（Alto）的设计师查克·萨克尔（Chuck Thacker）和巴特勒·兰普森（Butler Lampson）描述了阿奥托（Alto）的一些应用和技术，以及在PARC的特殊工作环境和使这一切发生的特别有才华的一群人。
It shows originality is not enough, you have to make it cheap enough to win.
Thank you
Steve Jobs would have never been successful without these guys, many people say he basically copied the Alto to create the Mac.
Indeed, but one must not forget that the Alto was quite crude in comparison. Some important UI inventions were done at Apple during the development of the Lisa and the Mac: Drag-and-drop, and pull-down menus, for instance. Which we take for granted today. but the Alto or Star didn't have.
head honchos at Xerox back then had no clue about what thier developers actually developed with the Alto. WAY ahead of its time. Xerox missed the opportunity of a lifetime. Instead of Apple..Google...or Android..or any of it....could of and should of been lowly ole Xerox. Oh well. Thier loss.
No, they didn't miss an opportunity, since the required chips (CPU, RAM, IO) weren't fast enough nor cheap enough before 1984.
Also, see 52:01. researchers are famously *not* the people needed to write shippable hardware and software.
@@RonJohn63 Imagine trying to find a market that believed in the cost benefit for the Xerox Alto. It must have been difficult to know what you have and not have a clue how to get a mass market for it. As you said it required killer apps and massproducable components.
I wish it was 2001 again. I was 4 and didn’t have a care in the world.
There is gonna be a warp drive before there's a paperless office!
WTF, that looks like a slim low powered Tablet back in 2001. WTF, yes i know ther was Windows XP Tablets back then but they were a joke. These guys are so lucky.
The sound on this recording is really awful. This is what happens when people think that "we don't need a sound technician, we'll just turn on the equipment and record!"
Or - there is a sound technician but they insist on using lavalier microphones which could be useless in some live venues.
This is for sure the oldest comment I have ever replied to. Hope you are well, Geir.
Was Steve Jobs there to :D seems he stole iPad idea - that device on desk !? :D
I think the idea for the iPad was in Jobs' mind when the Mac was released.
I do know that they were working on an iPad before the iPhone.
Actually, the original vision for the Alto (or one of them) was to shrink it into a tablet form eventually. That's why it had a portrait screen. I forget which of the original developers mentioned this.
What device is that?
when was this recorded?
danbroom 2001
How sad that managenent was so myopic
So lucky for IBM and Microsoft
Bob Tremain
Title should be: “how we gave away the company”
Comprehension is not your strong suit?
They basically said the complete opposite.
hahaha xerox.... so how are those mouse and graphical interface patents working for you? oh wait....
I really don’t understand. If Parc were so awesome, why didn’t they break away from Xerox and form their own company ? At least, they wouldn’t see all their inventions being stolen due to the stupidity of some folks at the top.
xerox can sleep at nite nicely those other punk companies ???? i hope these others are tossing n turning
dont worry we know the facts xerox invented the internet
Who's steve jobs?
and yet Steve Jobs gets all the credit....
And a dead company
Complete business failure
Must be so proud.