I'm currently riding the HPS 930. I weight 185lbs and primarily wing but also getting into prone. What size Spitfire would you recommend to compliment my hps? @@MACkiteboarding
Hi excellent format for a comparison, concise clear and really liked Cole’s summary at the end in 1-2 sentences. Just a thought, even though it applies to winging, you could add a section - which is better for direction change maneuvering such as gybes, tacks, 360s. And then jumping pop and entry re engagement. Regards.
I can tell you from the video, for the area you want ARTs for jumping and Spitfire for 360s, tacks and gybes. That's because the spitfire is more manouverable but for jumping the ART is supposed to be more reactive to pumping and would give you more speed. But be wary of snapping it, I think it's Axis's second thinnest wing for it's area. A lot of the jumping you will see is team riders who likely get cheap/free gear.
I've got some opinions on the Axis too, as I use the Axis fuse and mast but I do my own R&D foil design and ride my own designs. We see a lot of ARTs and Spitfires locally. I can see some good things about them but there's something special about riding your own designs, especially after 3 years of chasing down the differences between what makes a good hydrofoil vs what makes a good airfoil. It's no wonder there is so much secrecy around America's cup yachting foil shapes because I don't think you would find a really good design 101 how-to on foil design, most manufacturers are still pulling foil designs from planes with very minimal modifications. Axis have a good range and a sturdy although very chunky fuselage to front foil connection. I can't say I like the Armstrong conection any better either, it's wonderfully low drag but with sand in the sea... it's a recipe for loostening.
@fluiditynz, I made front wing based on Tom Spears H105 profile, most likely not very accurately, because I do not fill it is better than Axis HPS 1050. I just curious what profile have you designed? Could you share unless it is your secret?
@@ctduncan1 'regular ART is a bad wing' How can that be ? When the ARTs first came out they were promoted as the best wing ever. Better than sliced bread AND sex. Everyone was raving over them.
@@ctduncan1I’m late to this conversation, but that’s an absurd take. The ART foils are still excellent foils, a lot of these reviews popping up have their share of recency bias. The spitfires are quite low aspect foils (6-8), and the artpros are very high aspect at 11-12. Most other brands have a new wing in the 9 aspect ratio range, and axis simply doesn’t, but their old ARTs fill that spot. Until we get a more modern wing in that range, the ARTs have a wonderful niche Couple things in this video which irked me: the rider claimed that the spitfire 840 had a higher top end, which is wholly untrue. For context, I’ve ridden the sf1100, 960, 900, 840, 780, the ART 699, 899, 1099, and ARTpro 1051, 1201. Spitfires always feel slower, and don’t glide at all. Their main merits are they are very predictable, very easy to turn, and breach nicely. The artpros have unparalleled glide and speed, but they are comparably so much harder to turn the ARTs are in a nice spot in the middle. Much faster than a spitfire, not much slower than a pro, and the turning is somewhere in the middle. All of these hype reviews from team riders and the lot would love to have you believe that the spitfire does everything excellently and has no downsides, but that’s simply not the case. Every foil has its pros and cons, and the specific characteristics you’re looking for could still well be in the ARTs
@@zacharysprunt3398 I'm not sponsored by anyone and buy all my own gear. I have owned or demoed almost every single brand and foil available (Lift, North, AFS, Unifoil, Axis, Airush/AK, Code, Armstrong, Liquid force, Slingshot, Cloud, Core, North, F-One, Mikes Lab, Takuma, and maybe others I can't remember) The ART's are not good at all, I don't know anyone who still rides them and I know lots and lots of foilers. I actually owned several ARTs a few years ago and they weren't even good when they were new (HPS was still better in my opinion). Breech is horrific, turning terrible, low end awful. Better than no foil, but worse than almost all others LOL
Nicely done, as someone that rode art899 prone for 6 months then spitfire840, i agree with all this. I'd add from my experience the art had early lift and speed (fun) paddling in but spitfire has stability. Also spitfire at high speed takes some concentration to prevent full breach. The turns on spitfire are amazing but art had a pump advantage in great conditions, just gotta keep the speed up to prevent a stall.
@@antcramp believe me when I say the 951 turns just as good as the 840. Waaaaay faster and very technical to ride for beginners to intermediates. Unless your sub 80kg the 800 art pro is going to be unpronable for most people. It’ll be a tow wing and winging for most. The 951 is 760cm2 and very small for most people.
I'm on a 1050 HPS, mostly flat water. Do I need ART or Spitfire?
Great question, my friend. 🤙🏽 Give us a shout when you have a moment. We’re always happy to help: 800.622.4655
So what did you pick?
Buen vídeo 👍🏼 como siempre. Saludos desde el sur de España.
Gracias mi amigo. 🤙🏽 ¡Buenos vientos! -Aarón
Hi can you compare spitfire 840 (1000cm2 surface) with the North sf 930 as they are close in size.
That's a great question, my friend. 🤙🏽 Give us a call when you have a moment. We're always happy to help: 800.622.4655
What size or sizes of each wing were you using in the test please?
Axis ART 999 and Spitfire 840. 🤙🏽
I'm currently riding the HPS 930. I weight 185lbs and primarily wing but also getting into prone. What size Spitfire would you recommend to compliment my hps? @@MACkiteboarding
Hi excellent format for a comparison, concise clear and really liked Cole’s summary at the end in 1-2 sentences. Just a thought, even though it applies to winging, you could add a section - which is better for direction change maneuvering such as gybes, tacks, 360s. And then jumping pop and entry re engagement. Regards.
Great suggestion, my friend. 🤙🏽 We'll add that to our list for future videos. Good winds to you! -Aaron
I can tell you from the video, for the area you want ARTs for jumping and Spitfire for 360s, tacks and gybes. That's because the spitfire is more manouverable but for jumping the ART is supposed to be more reactive to pumping and would give you more speed. But be wary of snapping it, I think it's Axis's second thinnest wing for it's area. A lot of the jumping you will see is team riders who likely get cheap/free gear.
I've got some opinions on the Axis too, as I use the Axis fuse and mast but I do my own R&D foil design and ride my own designs. We see a lot of ARTs and Spitfires locally. I can see some good things about them but there's something special about riding your own designs, especially after 3 years of chasing down the differences between what makes a good hydrofoil vs what makes a good airfoil. It's no wonder there is so much secrecy around America's cup yachting foil shapes because I don't think you would find a really good design 101 how-to on foil design, most manufacturers are still pulling foil designs from planes with very minimal modifications. Axis have a good range and a sturdy although very chunky fuselage to front foil connection. I can't say I like the Armstrong conection any better either, it's wonderfully low drag but with sand in the sea... it's a recipe for loostening.
Thank you for sharing your experience with us! 🤙🏽 Good winds to you, my friend. -Aaron
@fluiditynz, I made front wing based on Tom Spears H105 profile, most likely not very accurately, because I do not fill it is better than Axis HPS 1050.
I just curious what profile have you designed? Could you share unless it is your secret?
@@mm74forums7 I'm afraid it's all buried in openscad formulae with tweaks from centre to tips.
Art pro vs Spitfire would be more relevant..
regular ART is a bad wing compared to the new generations of wings (and even old Lift wings), I can't imagine they are actually still using it
Thank you for sharing the stoke, my friend. 🤙🏽 Good winds! -Aaron
@@ctduncan1 'regular ART is a bad wing'
How can that be ? When the ARTs first came out they were promoted as the best wing ever. Better than sliced bread AND sex. Everyone was raving over them.
@@ctduncan1I’m late to this conversation, but that’s an absurd take. The ART foils are still excellent foils, a lot of these reviews popping up have their share of recency bias.
The spitfires are quite low aspect foils (6-8), and the artpros are very high aspect at 11-12. Most other brands have a new wing in the 9 aspect ratio range, and axis simply doesn’t, but their old ARTs fill that spot. Until we get a more modern wing in that range, the ARTs have a wonderful niche
Couple things in this video which irked me: the rider claimed that the spitfire 840 had a higher top end, which is wholly untrue. For context, I’ve ridden the sf1100, 960, 900, 840, 780, the ART 699, 899, 1099, and ARTpro 1051, 1201. Spitfires always feel slower, and don’t glide at all. Their main merits are they are very predictable, very easy to turn, and breach nicely. The artpros have unparalleled glide and speed, but they are comparably so much harder to turn the ARTs are in a nice spot in the middle. Much faster than a spitfire, not much slower than a pro, and the turning is somewhere in the middle. All of these hype reviews from team riders and the lot would love to have you believe that the spitfire does everything excellently and has no downsides, but that’s simply not the case. Every foil has its pros and cons, and the specific characteristics you’re looking for could still well be in the ARTs
@@zacharysprunt3398 I'm not sponsored by anyone and buy all my own gear. I have owned or demoed almost every single brand and foil available (Lift, North, AFS, Unifoil, Axis, Airush/AK, Code, Armstrong, Liquid force, Slingshot, Cloud, Core, North, F-One, Mikes Lab, Takuma, and maybe others I can't remember)
The ART's are not good at all, I don't know anyone who still rides them and I know lots and lots of foilers. I actually owned several ARTs a few years ago and they weren't even good when they were new (HPS was still better in my opinion). Breech is horrific, turning terrible, low end awful. Better than no foil, but worse than almost all others LOL
Nicely done, as someone that rode art899 prone for 6 months then spitfire840, i agree with all this. I'd add from my experience the art had early lift and speed (fun) paddling in but spitfire has stability. Also spitfire at high speed takes some concentration to prevent full breach. The turns on spitfire are amazing but art had a pump advantage in great conditions, just gotta keep the speed up to prevent a stall.
My verdict, spitfire for prone
Great comparison. I love my 840 spitfire, looking forward to the new smaller ART PROs. Around 800-900 would be perfect 🤙🤙.
Thank you for sharing the stoke, my friend. 🤙🏽 Good winds! -Aaron
Have you tried the 951 ?
@@davewestfoils I haven’t had the opportunity yet. How would you compare it to the similar sized spitfires?
@@antcramp believe me when I say the 951 turns just as good as the 840. Waaaaay faster and very technical to ride for beginners to intermediates. Unless your sub 80kg the 800 art pro is going to be unpronable for most people. It’ll be a tow wing and winging for most. The 951 is 760cm2 and very small for most people.
I’m 95kg for reference
What size of spitfire should I try with a Bodyweight from 85-90 kg ?
Hey Andreas, probably the 960 for some fun wave riding. or the 1030 for an all arounder. Cheers! - Cado