ICON Cutting Corners on Newest Premium Ratchets & Tools? They Wouldn’t… Would They?
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- Опубликовано: 23 апр 2024
- Manufacturers are always coming out with newer products. Typically innovation leads to better technologies and manufacturing adapts that to improve their product. However that is not always the case. Is harbor freight cutting corners with their premium brand Icon? Let’s take a look.
Link to previous video of whole set review:
NEW - ICON 3/8 in. Drive SAE and Metric Modular General Service Socket Set W/Case, 54-Piece - #70469 • NEW - ICON 3/8 in. Dri...
From the manufacturer:
Product Overview-
This professional ICON® Modular General Service Socket Set is ideal for the garage or jobsite. The ratchet has a 90-tooth gear mechanism for a tight 4° arc swing, ideal for work in confined spaces. The low-profile ratchet head makes it easier to work in tight, cramped engine bays. Each extension has a small diameter shank with knurling for a secure grip. The precision-machined gears deliver smooth ratcheting action and stand up to heavy torque. Like all ICON® hand tools, this set is backed by a hassle-free, manufacturer’s lifetime warranty. Thin wall design fits even the most difficult fasteners Chamfered openings for easy fastener and drive engagement Shallow hex depth keeps fastener positioned near end of deep sockets Precision square drive for maximum torque Hardened chrome-moly steel for superior strength, torque, and tool life High-polished chrome finish provides corrosion resistance and easy cleanup Ergonomic grip design for reduced hand fatigue Easy-to-read size markings No-skip sizing Premium carrying case with modular EVA inserts for toolbox storage
Specifications-
SKU(s) 70469 Brand ICON Model M25400 Contents 3/8 in. Drive Professional 9 in. Low-Profile Ratchet, 3/8 in. Drive Socket Extension 3 in. and 6 in., 3/8 in. Universal Joint Socket Adapter, 3/8 in. female to 1/4 in. male adapter, 1/4 in. male to 3/8 in. female adapter, storage case, 3-piece foam organi Drive Size 3/8 in. Finish Polished chrome Material Chrome moly steel Number of Teeth 90 Quantity 54 SAE or Metric SAE and Metric Shipping Weight 13.00 lb. Size(s) Shallow sockets - metric sizes: 8 mm, 9 mm, 10 mm, 11 mm, 12 mm, 13 mm, 14 mm, 15 mm, 16 mm, 17 mm, 18 mm, 19 mm; SAE sizes: 1/4 in., 5/16 in., 11/32 in., 3/8 in., 7/16 in., 1/2 in., 9/16 in., 5/8 in., 11/16 in. 3/4 in., 13/16 in., 7/8 in.;deep sockets - metric sizes: 8 mm, 9 mm, 10 mm, 11 mm, 12 mm, 13 mm, 14 mm, 15 mm, 16 mm, 17 mm, 18 mm, 19 mm; SAE sizes: 1/4 in., 5/16 in., 11/32 in., 3/8 in., 7/16 in., 1/2 in., 9/16 in., 5/8 in., 11/16 in. 3/4 in., 13/16 in., 7/8 in.
Limited lifetime Warranty
Where to buy:
Harbor Freight hftools.com/app70469
#tools #automobile #automotive #diy #mechanic #organization #technician #397 #investing 
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Thank you Sir. When you was examining the internals i lost track of which came with the kit and which you bought separately.
Sorry about that. Essentially the one without the washer and no bevel on the gear is the new one.
Amazing thing is, you can walk back into harbor freight and swap out a new one with a washer. Id put money that they are supposed to have that washer just that one didnt, blame the assembler. Go get a new one and continue life
Normally I would do that but this whole set has not met my expectations. Good chance it’s going back.
@@thingsmen also i was watching a couple other reviews of the sockets and they looked chamfered at the ratchet side. I made sure it was video of them recently and not all the ones from 3-4years ago when they came out. I would wonder if its that set specifically or maybe a bad batch
@@bradleylayton1741 I’ll have to take a look at some new stock. As I sits I’m currently not impressed. Appreciate your comment. 👍🏻
I find the icon ratchets are junk the Quinn ratchets are way better the same as gear wrench
@@thingsmenthe plate to secure the anvil and pawl is absolutely not designed for lateral torquing force. You spin a ratchet concentric with your hand or you will break it. The new one will have less slop, with the bigger pawl.... when tightening a fastener in a confined space. The new one is better. And that washer will wear out. I think you should lay off the grass.
It's good to be aware to check for quality indeed.
It’s worth the extra minute. 👍🏻
I had always seen wisdom, in buying quality (not most expensive)
tools, to last a lifetime. As I got past 50, I realized I could buy cheaper
tools and they would Still last a lifetime. 🌞😁✌
Fair point. Quality doesn't always = most expensive. Less expensive also doesn't = Lower quality. That is one of them main points of this channel. Finding the best tools out there indiscriminate of price.
I bought a 3/8" Craftsman flex head ratchet a few years ago from Ace Hardware and after a little use it got really sloppy, very much like what you're seeing with that Icon ratchet. Took it apart and saw there was plenty of room to easily add a shim washer I had found in my used washer drawer and that made a huge improvement in the way the ratchet worked. Seems like the quality has really slipped since Stanley picked up the line.
Nice work. However I would like to see HF premium priced brand show some effort at being “Prosumer”.
@@thingsmen I've been using the Pittsburgh Pro 3/8" dual flex head ratchet for years (963699) and had no complaints. It was cheaper when I bought it. You can remove the upper piece of the handle and turn it into a stubby ratchet and if you don't like the dual flex function, you can buy a cheap Evercraft 3/8" long flex head ratchet at Napa for $8.75 (7741482) and then swap the handles and have a nice single flex head ratchet using the Pgh. Pro head. That's pretty prosumer like.
@@thingsmenI agree the copyon line is over priced garbage. Buy the Quinn line or if I wanted a good cost effective brand I buy tekton
Starting out wrenching I really loved the icon ratchets especially the extended ratchet just hated it was a locking flex head I put more then 200 pounds onto it and held strong never any issues but switch to a Matco locking flex head I couldn’t go back that’s the biggest upgrade
Yea they have been good ratchets up until recently. I probably own a half a dozen of their ratchets now.
Perhaps the person who assembled that ratchet forgot to install the wave washer. The bevel on the anvil may have been eliminated in order to streamline the machining process.
True but that is an additional step missed. Also the ball on the anvil is smaller and overall quality of the anvil is poorer.
@@thingsmen: How is it a step "missed", if it is not done, to save cost?
It has no effect on operation.
@@zapa1pnt it used to be a step in the process and now its not. Without the wave washer the leading edge of the gear is free to make contact with the inspection plate.
I would buy the williams ratchet or a used snapon before I paid 45 bucks for a harbor junk copyon. And if I had to buy a ratchet from harbor junk I would by a Quinn made by gear wrench
I had that same problem with my 3/8 ratchet on that same set, took it back to HF and they replaced it with another ratchet from a different 54 set and it had the same issue.. I don’t wrench on stuff often so I’m not terribly concerned but it’s still very annoying & upsetting to have a ratchet that binds up and grinds while you fasten or loosen a nut or bolt. It’s a brand new tool I expect it to operate smoothly
Agreed. And you paid a premium for what should be a very nice set. 👍🏻
Buy tekton
They had a recall really early on with these ratchets. Thought it was just the flex head but I’m not sure. You might have one of the pre recall ratchets.
Yes the recall was only for the flex heads as they bound up.
I bought this same kit the other day and have the same issue with the ratchet binding. Grease was pouring out the anvil as if they over packed it to compensate for the missing washer. Its so annoying as I never had this issue on any of my Icon ratchets which have been workhorses for me.
Mine was packed with grease as well. It’s unfortunate you ran into the same problem. Are your sockets square on the back too? I did another video that goes into that.
Please measure the wave washer so we can buy one. OD, ID, and thickness. Thanks.
I’ll keep that in mind next time I have it apart. Thanks for commenting. 👍🏻
Man we are really picking the fly shit out of the pepper here aren’t we? I’ve bought god knows how many snap on, Mac matco Cornwell etc and never taken one apart, back drag on a brand new ratchet unless horrendous is something you expect to get better over time. Perhaps we should use our tools for awhile
It’s ok that you haven’t. I spent most of my career doing the same.
@@thingsmenbut you never noticed that less chamfer in a socket gives better bite on a fastener.......
The five cent wave washers you mention are, probably, five cents per one hundred.
The radiusing of the gear and thinning of the switch knob are unnecessary machining
steps, which have no effect on the operation of the mechanism and so, not doing those
saves costs. The absence of the wave washer (an incredibly cheap part) is bad judgement,
because it Does affect the operation, of the mechanism. 😁✌🖖
Thanks for commenting. The anvil is also less refined and the ball detent has been replaced with a smaller one. The radiusing of the gear isnt as crucial is the washer is present, but if under load, and without the wave washer, its teeth could make contact with the plate and bind.
Buy Koken virtually zero back drag. And ratchets that aren't going to bust up in a couple ueses on them. It actually made me look forward to using my rats again.. and if you have the money I think the best tool manufacturer on the planet is Nepros. I believe they're in the same company but that's their high high end and they are definitely super quality. I have the wooden screwdrivers I've never seen a screwdriver look so beautiful. They function as good as they look.. the Chrome finish is second to none
Thanks for commenting.
Good video; thank you. I've been on the fence about buying Icon tools... Wish I could feel more positive about taking a chance on them. I may just stick w/ Proto, S-K, and the old, USA-made V & VV series hand tools. Subbed!
Appreciate the feedback. Not all icon is bad. I think current my they are cutting corners on a couple products but they have other items that are still solid purchases. Thanks again for commenting and subscribing. 👍🏻
I purchased one ICON comfort grip and I haven't taken it apart but I was not impressed as it was very notchy and if you put pressure like you show it would lock up. I only have 1 so nothing to compare it to but didn't like the feel and compared it to a Gearwrench 90t and it was much smoother so I ended up going to the Gearwrench 90T.
This makes me wonder if the ratchet is just missing parts and was missed on assembly or if they are not including those anymore....I will pull it apart and see thanks.
Several have said theirs are missing. That along with the different Pauls, lack of bevel on anvil, lower quality of anvil that also has a smaller ball detent. And cannot forget the sockets that are also missing the proper chamfering. It’s a lot of thing wrong in such a short amount of time.
Yeah, I like the Gearwrench too- I just wish they had quick release- but other than that, they're solid and even look professional, and are a good deal for the price; i.e. not cheap...but not expensive.
@@bobbylibertini I also have some tekton ratchet they also are 90t and are quality, I have an extra long 3/8 ratchet and it’s quickly becoming one of my favorite ratchets even though it’s not always used. They have the quick release ratchets you may want to
@@donelias1981 I've heard good things about Tekton. I recently purchased a bunch of Casoman impact sockets- I'm kind of on the fence about those...they seem to be good for what I use them for (I don't use them every day) but the 1/2" drive ratchet that came with one of the sets has failed after using it 3 times (The drive mode selector doohicky is jammed)...which does not portend good things.... OTOH, I used their 1&7/8ths socket on bush hog blade bolts, which are extremely tightly torqued..and it did the job...
Mine is the same as yours, missing the washer and sloppy. I swapped mine out with a new one in the store...
Well done. 👍🏻
Icon and Doyle making the tool trucks sweat bullets 👍
They have stepped up their game, but they appear to be slipping on some products as seen in this video.
The only people sweating are the little children making harbor junk tools. It's gross Americans are buying them to save a couple bucks. Buy williams they are made by snapon and have a usa line and the sockets are almost identical ratchets are close just the teeth count is different harbor junk is a big corporate trash putting out garbage. The only tools I would buy is something that I use once a year
After you pointed out the lack of washer and lack of bevels anvil gear.
If they would have beveled the gear, even without the washer. The gear wouldn’t drag as much or be trying to saw through the retaining plate with the teeth of the anvil gear when gear cams under upward handle tension.
Hopefully you just got a faulty ratchet. Id be curious if you returned it if the replacement has the same issue. If so thats 100% not a “premium” or prosumer ratchet and wont physically last long at all.
That’s my line of thinking as well. These are the absolutely most expensive ratchets HF offers and they are cutting corners. It has allowed them to lower prices a bit on the icon line but at what cost to the overall product? Not a fan of what I’m seeing.
The individual 3/8 ratchet I got over a year ago didn’t come with the wave washer took it back and they swapped it out for me
Common problem I see.
The backdrag can be adjusted these. You just to shorten or weaken the spring under the pawl. There is a fine line because the spring can not be to weak or it will not work properly. But if you have a ratchet with this style the spring is key.
💯 I've made it too short once and didn't work. Then I got a spring from a mechanical pencil and cut to size and worked really good
Yes you could alter the spring rate but then it becomes even harder for the spring to overcome the weight of the heavier paul. As you mentioned it’s a fine line.
@@Mr.Thermistor7228 why go through all that just return or buy better quality for the same price tekton I also find the Quinn ratchets are gear wrench and are better
Tekton... decent tools. Great customer service.
Seems to be the consensus
100% tekton is 99% all my affordable tools in the road box warranty is amazing and I'm not driving to the store every time I use one of harbor junk tools
It’s possible your older ratchet was from Icons first release before they were recalled and those were the differences when they were updated? I don’t remember what the exact issue was back then but there were some problems with the ratchet binding up I believe. It seems the actual main issue with the ratchet that comes with these socket sets is just that washer.
Only the flex heads were recalled as far as I know. The standard ratchets were fine.
@@thingsmen there is also a rumor that a new designed Icon ratchet could possibly be released soon, so the quality control could be slipping on these current ones? If you look at harbor freights website on the advertised pictures of the brand new Hardy brand latex gloves, a hand is shown with an icon ratchet that has a very different look of the current one?
@@Masenko325 can’t seem to find the photo. Feel free to link it if you come across it again.
@@thingsmen it seems the picture has been removed on the website.. It was on the new orange gloves. A post still exists on a Facebook group of someone’s screenshot of it. I can’t find it anywhere else at the moment.
So, I think there's more going on here. I had a second gen 3/8 long handle flex head (after they fixed the recall). I'm pretty sure it had the washer. The anvil snapped on that unit and I had it replaced a couple weeks ago. The new ratchet has all of the changes you've shown here; bigger pawl, no bevel on the anvil, and no washer. However, my ratchet does not bind when stressing the tool as you've shown.
So, I believe the exclusion of the washer is an intentional change, and the tolerances have been taken into account elsewhere in the design (likely the milling of the body/housing). I suspect your ratchet was produced around the time they were re-tooling, and it ended up with mismatched components.
They seem to be refining the design. Not only for cost saving measures (less tooling on the anvil), but also reliability (beefier anvil) and reducing assembly complexity (exclusion of the washer).
Unfortunately there are others that are lacking the washer and they too bind up so it’s not an isolated problem. The manufacturer is cutting corners and the products are starting to show it.
@@thingsmen Didn't claim it was an isolated incident. Just that the exclusion of the washer may be a sign of a redesign since some units are not experiencing the binding. I fail to see how a larger pawl could be seen as cutting corners. I think what we're seeing is the factory mixing up components during a re-tooling.
Based on the shenanigans of the factory reselling this design under their own brand, Harbor Freight is probably paying around $5 to $10 per ratchet. I really doubt Harbor Freight is worried about a 3 cent washer on a tool with such a high markup. Especially when such a change would result in more warranty exchanges. A design change with poor execution at the factory seems more likely in my opinion. Perhaps they even changed factories, after the other was reselling what's probably supposed to be an exclusive design. Not everything is a conspiracy to save money.
I asked before and i ask again: what are the dimensions for the wave washer? My ratchet doesn't have this washer. You did good identifying the problem, but go the whole 9 yards and help others fix their ratchets by giving the dimensions. I can find the part on my own.
McMaster Carr has a washer .500" ID, .750" OD, .010" thick, .160" height, PN 1775N13. This looks like what i see in the video, but none of us know for sure without dimensions. Help a fellow out please.
.003” thick. Id is .62”. OD is .745”. 👍🏻
Interesting upload man. I was worried about buying anything icon and harbor freight and they lower the quality and replace with a bigger pos tool
Sadly they have a reputation of dropping new good products just to phase out their quality as years progress. I’ve got countless examples of this.
@@thingsmenthat’s not good for any of us that own their products, dang
That's why I buy tekton it gets better as they phase out
Its most likely sourced from a different supplier that didnt read the cliff notes
Possible but likely directed to cut cost as it’s pretty common for HF to do.
Now, they need to make the ratchet head a bit thicker around the switch to prevent it from breaking off.
Maybe. I haven’t heard of issue breaking off yet. 🤷
Icon stuff is about equivalent to current Craftsman crap. If you watch the vids where the tools are scientifically tested, the Icon stuff usually matches or falls below Craftsman (Which isn't saying much). Horrid Freight is using marketing-via-name-association to try and make people think that they are getting a bargain because they compare their prices to Snap-On...but of course, the Icon stuff is a joke compared to Snap-On [Note: I am not a Snap-On fan or user]. A very few HF items are deent...and while the quality has improved somewhat over the years, the prices have also gone up exponentially. I don't buy the tool truck brands, because they are an overpriced rip-off...but I do try to buy quality tools- which often means going with different manufacturers for different products. I just went to use my HF snap-ring prliers yesterday...what a pice of junk! Money wasted..now i have to go out and buy REAL ones.
Yea snap ring pliers are garbage. Their icon stuff has mostly been above par. I like most of their ratchets but this new stuff is concerning. Thanks for commenting!
You should definitely advise the manager what you found on the ratchet. They may need to recall and fix the set.
My local management doesn’t care. Videos like this actually get a significant amount of attention. 👍🏻
@@thingsmen I’m gonna go in to my HF tomorrow and let them know. Could it be just a 1 off mistake?
@@dreadedtred no several have complained.
Damn, my buddy just sent me a Home Depot Husky 270 piece 1/2”, 3/8” and 1/4” SAE and metric with 3 drawer case for $99.00 Fathers Day Sale. What do you think?
Let me know if Husky is junk.
No way I can't believe it 😲
👍🏻
overpriced junk i bought 3 duralast sets 25 years ago on sale still have yet to open the other 2 got them for $24.99 each there is no use spending copious amounts of money on sockets and wrenches and ratchets when the majority of them perform similarly
Yea those were good ones. Hold onto them. 👍🏻
You paid $24.99 each 25 years ago and you’re saying these are overpriced? 😂😂😂 brother they’re like $30/$40 after 25 years of inflation and you won’t have to pay for one ever again. I’d say you’re just here to complain, which is par for the course.
When buying tools from Harbor Freight, you should expect corners to be cut.
Sometimes but their icon line fetches a premium and did get off to a good start.
Wait until we tell him the back drag has nothing to do with the pawl (or hardly) and everything to do with the spring tension.
You’ll have a hard time convincing me it’s not both. 👍🏻
Hard to get excited about non-Snap on ratchets, unfortunately
There are some great alternatives out there.
By far snapon is the best and when I can't afford a new one I'll buy a used one
These tool box ratchets are Defective!
At least my was in more ways than one.
Get a grip. If your really butt hurt as bad as you seem on the Internet we'll you can walk your hurt ass back into harbor freight and swap out with a new one
@@Mr.Thermistor7228: If it a matter of bad design, it is a worthless hike. 😁✌🖖
A lot of their stuff varies some depending on where that batch came from. The 20t press for example. One comes with the main frame welded and you have to bolt the other version together. Compare their other rachets before buying. I pick the one with the least amount of play in the anvil. I wont buy the icon ratchets.
Correct they tend shift around manufacturers. However icon is their premium line as was showing some hope.
@thingsmen I bought a 1/4" flex head just to give them a shot. First one didn't work out of the box. Second one froze just passing it around the shop feeling the slop, back drag and lever. There may have been another one but the one I have now has a ton of back drag. The Pittsburgh version I have is very smooth. For the price point, I'll stick to gearwrench (I love their ratchets. Better than most of my tool truck brands) and other known brands. I realize it's "our fault" because of guys buying tools to use once and return but the prices and how they've gotten with returns I've only been in hf maybe 5 times in the last couple years. I used to go there every weekend with my wife and step daughter. The same stuff is available online these days, only requires a picture for me to replace a broken tool and I get it in the mail 2-3 days later. Craftsman tools are a pain to return at my local Lowes. The truck guys have excuses on top of excuses anymore. Harbor freight only has a 90 day warranty on automotive "specialty tools" with a receipt and possibly restocking fee. Sorry for the adhd rant. I'll stop now. Haha
@@aaadamt964same I don't buy copyon anymore when in a pinch I found the new Quinn ratchets are way better
I really love some of the Icon stuff. But, I have trouble trusting HF. I feel like their nice stuff is always secretly garbage.
It’s tough because sometimes they do offer a quality product and for a long time. But that is not always the case.
Buy tekton way better quality and warranty dont break every time you use them and have to drive to the store at 3.50 a gallon FJB
The older icons are quite nice. It’s this newer batch that I’m questioning. A lot of Tekton products are nice. 👍🏻
@thingsmen I bought a 3/8 copyon about 6 months ago and it was a total pos traded it in a couple times and it in my junk box I use it as a hammer now I got the 3/8 Quinn and it's a way better ratchet
@thingsmen and yes I agree for the money tekton for m has been the best brand I also feel like they care more it's still a family owned business
Best way to avoid that is to not buy h.f. crap
That's why i do these videos. Not all HF is crap, but when they do its always good to point it out. Thanks for commenting!
You must be a snap off fan boy
@@williamM-18 nope just the facts copyon is overpriced garbage
Does it Titan and loosen nuts. That it does its job enough with these stupid videos taking tools apart for no fucking reason
Will it tighten or loosen them for long? That’s my question as I like to make informed decisions before purchasing tools for the long haul. 👍🏻
Go get em walter...true!