Respectfully, the burning of the Quran is an attack on the ideas and philosophies it contains, not on Muslims themselves. It's very much possible to love, respect and appreciate all of our Muslim friends and neigbours that contribute to our communities, but at the same time express anger and outrage towards the religion, the book, its contents and its history of inducing murder and bloodshed. The last blasphemy law in my country was repealed in 2018 as it was deemed archaic. The last time it had been used was in 1980 for the most preposterous of reasons. I gather a movie theatre was planning on showing Monty Pythons "Life of Brian" and some Christians got upset..
I disagree. I will say it again - you may criticise our religion (or any religion for that matter) in a respecful manner, in a civilised discussion or debate or interview etc. Burning the Quran is not respectful to those who follow it, especially when it is done in front of a mosque. You can't burn the Quran one day and then show up to your Muslim neighbour the next day and expect to be treated with the same friendliness. That would be like me burning a Hindu idol in front of a temple and then trying to hit up my Indian friend. He will be upset with me and justifiably so. Thank you for being respectful.
@@raiseyourdeen no worries, I appreciate your candour as well. So I'll break this down two ways; my interpretation and conduct versus what the typical individual in my country can and must be able to do. First me.. I can do exactly what you've said. I can respectfully discuss my thoughts on any given religion or its scriptures without desecrating something and behaving in what a normal person would construe as a rude or obnoxious manner. My thoughts on Islam are not positive. I think it has caused great harm throughout the ages and still does. Most often, when I'm being critical of a religion, it's Christianity in my cross-hairs, specifically because of the generational trauma and genocide upon my people that they played a major part in. I think the bible is a wretchedly vile collection of immoral ideas that have caused centuries worth of death, misery and oppression all over the world. But I don't hate Christians. That would mean hating a lot of people that have done me no harm and are actually peace loving folks who enrich the community. There's no need for hate. I don't want to make anyone feel lousy either so I won't go to their church, or any other place, to burn a bible. I just wouldn't do that. Same with the Muslim community here. They're awesome peeps who help build this country both economically and culturally. Why would I want to offend them? I'm not that way. Here in Canada, we have no blasphemy laws. The last was repealed in 2018 as it was deemed archaic. The last time anyone tried to use it was back in 1980. I understand that a theatre was screening Monty Python's "Life of Brian", which is a light-hearted spoof of the life and times of Jesus, and a group of Christians got their feathers in a ruffle. Although the theatre was charged, the charges were stayed and the story was buried rather quickly. I'll cover off the interpretation of hate speech as well, versus what's deemed to be acceptable. I believe that the criteria that needs to be considered is what's under attack. Here, the general attitude is that people have rights but ideas don't. I hate the idea that a Muslim in Canada may miss out on a job because of their faith., or be discriminated against by the healthcare or education system, or during the course of other experiences with the public service. But that's generally not a problem due to the overwhelming ethnic diversity in this country. I won't say that there's no racism. Of course there is, but the primary target there isn't Muslims. Islam and it's scriptures are collections of ideas. The set of beliefs is not given a position of special privilege versus any others and a copy of the Quran deserves no greater privilege over any other book, be that the bible or the latest volume of the Captain Underpants series. We can differentiate here the distinction between the unacceptable discrimination of people based on their faith versus an attack on the set of ideas upon which faith is based. Our Charter of Rights and Freedoms, a constitutional document, provides everyone within our borders with the right to freedom of expression, even tourists. There are no limits set on speech. Due to the lack of blasphemy laws, the destruction of the Quran, or other book of reverence, is 100% legal. I'm not sure if this applies to other countries, but any attempts by the government to put restrictions in place prohibiting such desecration would be tested immediately by some antagonist and the courts, which would deem these laws as unconstitutional and consequentially, unlawful. I agree 100% with you in that if you go to your local mosque and burn a Quran in front of your Muslim neighbours, they're not going to be very pleased. And they are completely within their rights to call you a goof. But, as in any case, how we respond is a reflection on us, and we must be mindful not to make our reaction overshadow the wrongness of the initial act. When someone acts with no class, we show them what class is rather than debase ourselves to their level. Sorry - long-winded..
The whole point of freedom of speech is that you should be able to anger another without the threat of being silenced. If you don't like the message just ignore the speaker or argue back, but silencing them helps no one except those who wish to hide their misdeeds. When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.
I will say it again. If you want to disagree with our religion or make your points, you are welcome to do so in a civilised manner. Burning our holy text outside our holy building is just designed to be insulting. Do you stay quiet when people insult you? Of course not.
@@raiseyourdeen Actually that's exactly what I've been taught to do, ignore those who insult me. Getting mad from being insulted is considered childish in Swedish culture.
@@hanneskarlbom6644 perhaps you do. I think I chose the wrong word “insult” tbh. Burning the Quran is not so much an insult, it’s like an attack. Imagine you’ve written a book for your children with advice on how to live a good life. It gets published and there’s millions of copies. People around the world love this book for all the benefit it brings them. Then someone comes to outside your house and burns your book full of your words and wisdom right in front of your house with your children watching. You may contain your anger but your children who idolise you will likely lash out at the perpetrator. I know that was a clunky analogy but I hope you get my point. Secondly, very few people can restrain themselves when they are attacked or insulted. Even fewer continue to contain themselves when someone they love is attacked in their presence. You’re not just going to watch while your mother is attacked or insulted are you? That anger you might feel is akin to how Muslims feel when the words of our creator are burned in contempt. I hope you can understand what I’m trying to say. We are not being personally harmed. The attach is against our creator who we love and we feel compelled to defend the ones we love.
@@hanneskarlbom6644 I wonder if it would still seem silly to you if, heaven forbid, someone abused your family member in front of you. Anyways I’ve enjoyed this debate with you. Thanks for commenting!
A subject I haven't read of quran writings. Nothing claims your Muhammad said, during his life time, the "TEXT" of the Torah, the writings of Moses, (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy) are changed or corrupted. I've read your Muhammad did believe "men" do utter the words of Moses only to twist the meaning only to benefit themselves. Is anything of the above incorrect?
I’m not sure what you’re asking. The Quran has verses mentioning that Jews would change verses (read more here islamqa.info/amp/en/answers/2001). I think that’s what you’re referring to. Hopefully that answers your question.
@@raiseyourdeen You're intentional misleading translation. "change verses" has zero mention of corrupting any "TEXT"! So if the TEXT of the Torah is corrupted how is it that Muhammad gave praise to the Scriptures of the Torah uttering they are the Words of God and the words of God can not be corrupted? You are assuming, as did your Muhammad, "all" or any Scriptures before and after Ezra are corrupted. smh
@@raiseyourdeen Do you really believe that Jews corrupted all Scriptures from Genesis to Revelations that reveal mankind needs a Savor from eternal death which the annual Passover represents? Why would the Jews of all the 12 tribes of ancient Israel do that? Then all the tribes of ancient Israel accepted that change before the 10 northern tribes were exiled 2 Kings 17:23?
@@NathanFields-sh6xh I’m not assuming anything. I’m merely pointing you towards the appropriate resources. I’d encourage you to read and watch the works of Islamic scholars if you want to know now more about the Islamic perspective on these subjects. That would be more beneficial for you than asking me.
I was discussing with someone why Christians do not react as strongly to bible burnings as Muslims to the Quran. The difference is partly because of the differences in religion, and partly due to the way the scripture is viewed. Firstly, Christianity teaches that God deal with blasphemers. it is not the duty of Christians. Christians may defend themselves or others, but God is capable of defending himself. Seocndly, Christians see the bible as a human message of the revelation. it is not God written, it is human written and transmits that message, similar to how a television might transmit the news. Christians see the message as holy, not the bible. Muslims do not see the Quran the same way. To a Muslim the Quran is written by god (using Mohammad) and thus is holy in of itself. This is why a devoted Christian will have a dogeared bible with notes scribbled all over it, sitting in their desk drawer... but a Muslim will have the Quran immaculate on a shelf. the Christian is trying to decipher the message using the bible. But for a Muslim, the Quran is the message. Basically, for a Christian, it is not worth getting angry about a bible burning because God's message is far more than some scraps of paper.
You make some good points but I think your last paragraph come to the wrong conclusion. Muslims aren’t getting angry because the Quran is the message itself and we’re somehow losing the message. Remember that tens of thousands of Muslims have memorised this text - burn every copy in the world and we can reproduce it instantly. Muslims are getting angry because we want our beliefs and right to faith to be respected. Burning our holy text in front of our holy buildings in the name of “freedom of speech” is insulting and disrespectful. Everyone gets angry when you disrespect and insult them. It’s that simple.
JazakAllah kher for sharing your thoughts! I respect the fellow Muslim who decided not to burn the scripture of the other faiths although he had the permissions to do so. A Muslim can not be a true Muslim unless he believes in all the Holy scriptures but follow only the teachings of the Quran. Keep up the good work doctor!
Respectfully, the burning of the Quran is an attack on the ideas and philosophies it contains, not on Muslims themselves. It's very much possible to love, respect and appreciate all of our Muslim friends and neigbours that contribute to our communities, but at the same time express anger and outrage towards the religion, the book, its contents and its history of inducing murder and bloodshed. The last blasphemy law in my country was repealed in 2018 as it was deemed archaic. The last time it had been used was in 1980 for the most preposterous of reasons. I gather a movie theatre was planning on showing Monty Pythons "Life of Brian" and some Christians got upset..
I disagree. I will say it again - you may criticise our religion (or any religion for that matter) in a respecful manner, in a civilised discussion or debate or interview etc. Burning the Quran is not respectful to those who follow it, especially when it is done in front of a mosque.
You can't burn the Quran one day and then show up to your Muslim neighbour the next day and expect to be treated with the same friendliness. That would be like me burning a Hindu idol in front of a temple and then trying to hit up my Indian friend. He will be upset with me and justifiably so.
Thank you for being respectful.
@@raiseyourdeen no worries, I appreciate your candour as well. So I'll break this down two ways; my interpretation and conduct versus what the typical individual in my country can and must be able to do.
First me.. I can do exactly what you've said. I can respectfully discuss my thoughts on any given religion or its scriptures without desecrating something and behaving in what a normal person would construe as a rude or obnoxious manner. My thoughts on Islam are not positive. I think it has caused great harm throughout the ages and still does. Most often, when I'm being critical of a religion, it's Christianity in my cross-hairs, specifically because of the generational trauma and genocide upon my people that they played a major part in. I think the bible is a wretchedly vile collection of immoral ideas that have caused centuries worth of death, misery and oppression all over the world. But I don't hate Christians. That would mean hating a lot of people that have done me no harm and are actually peace loving folks who enrich the community. There's no need for hate. I don't want to make anyone feel lousy either so I won't go to their church, or any other place, to burn a bible. I just wouldn't do that. Same with the Muslim community here. They're awesome peeps who help build this country both economically and culturally. Why would I want to offend them? I'm not that way.
Here in Canada, we have no blasphemy laws. The last was repealed in 2018 as it was deemed archaic. The last time anyone tried to use it was back in 1980. I understand that a theatre was screening Monty Python's "Life of Brian", which is a light-hearted spoof of the life and times of Jesus, and a group of Christians got their feathers in a ruffle. Although the theatre was charged, the charges were stayed and the story was buried rather quickly. I'll cover off the interpretation of hate speech as well, versus what's deemed to be acceptable. I believe that the criteria that needs to be considered is what's under attack. Here, the general attitude is that people have rights but ideas don't. I hate the idea that a Muslim in Canada may miss out on a job because of their faith., or be discriminated against by the healthcare or education system, or during the course of other experiences with the public service. But that's generally not a problem due to the overwhelming ethnic diversity in this country. I won't say that there's no racism. Of course there is, but the primary target there isn't Muslims. Islam and it's scriptures are collections of ideas. The set of beliefs is not given a position of special privilege versus any others and a copy of the Quran deserves no greater privilege over any other book, be that the bible or the latest volume of the Captain Underpants series. We can differentiate here the distinction between the unacceptable discrimination of people based on their faith versus an attack on the set of ideas upon which faith is based. Our Charter of Rights and Freedoms, a constitutional document, provides everyone within our borders with the right to freedom of expression, even tourists. There are no limits set on speech. Due to the lack of blasphemy laws, the destruction of the Quran, or other book of reverence, is 100% legal. I'm not sure if this applies to other countries, but any attempts by the government to put restrictions in place prohibiting such desecration would be tested immediately by some antagonist and the courts, which would deem these laws as unconstitutional and consequentially, unlawful.
I agree 100% with you in that if you go to your local mosque and burn a Quran in front of your Muslim neighbours, they're not going to be very pleased. And they are completely within their rights to call you a goof. But, as in any case, how we respond is a reflection on us, and we must be mindful not to make our reaction overshadow the wrongness of the initial act. When someone acts with no class, we show them what class is rather than debase ourselves to their level.
Sorry - long-winded..
The whole point of freedom of speech is that you should be able to anger another without the threat of being silenced. If you don't like the message just ignore the speaker or argue back, but silencing them helps no one except those who wish to hide their misdeeds.
When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.
I will say it again. If you want to disagree with our religion or make your points, you are welcome to do so in a civilised manner. Burning our holy text outside our holy building is just designed to be insulting. Do you stay quiet when people insult you? Of course not.
@@raiseyourdeen Actually that's exactly what I've been taught to do, ignore those who insult me. Getting mad from being insulted is considered childish in Swedish culture.
@@hanneskarlbom6644 perhaps you do. I think I chose the wrong word “insult” tbh. Burning the Quran is not so much an insult, it’s like an attack.
Imagine you’ve written a book for your children with advice on how to live a good life. It gets published and there’s millions of copies. People around the world love this book for all the benefit it brings them. Then someone comes to outside your house and burns your book full of your words and wisdom right in front of your house with your children watching.
You may contain your anger but your children who idolise you will likely lash out at the perpetrator.
I know that was a clunky analogy but I hope you get my point.
Secondly, very few people can restrain themselves when they are attacked or insulted. Even fewer continue to contain themselves when someone they love is attacked in their presence. You’re not just going to watch while your mother is attacked or insulted are you? That anger you might feel is akin to how Muslims feel when the words of our creator are burned in contempt.
I hope you can understand what I’m trying to say. We are not being personally harmed. The attach is against our creator who we love and we feel compelled to defend the ones we love.
@@raiseyourdeen Still just seems silly to me.
@@hanneskarlbom6644 I wonder if it would still seem silly to you if, heaven forbid, someone abused your family member in front of you.
Anyways I’ve enjoyed this debate with you. Thanks for commenting!
A subject I haven't read of quran writings. Nothing claims your Muhammad said, during his life time, the "TEXT" of the Torah, the writings of Moses, (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy) are changed or corrupted. I've read your Muhammad did believe "men" do utter the words of Moses only to twist the meaning only to benefit themselves. Is anything of the above incorrect?
I’m not sure what you’re asking.
The Quran has verses mentioning that Jews would change verses (read more here islamqa.info/amp/en/answers/2001). I think that’s what you’re referring to. Hopefully that answers your question.
@@raiseyourdeen You're intentional misleading translation. "change verses" has zero mention of corrupting any "TEXT"!
So if the TEXT of the Torah is corrupted how is it that Muhammad gave praise to the Scriptures of the Torah uttering they are the Words of God and the words of God can not be corrupted?
You are assuming, as did your Muhammad, "all" or any Scriptures before and after Ezra are corrupted. smh
@@raiseyourdeen Do you really believe that Jews corrupted all Scriptures from Genesis to Revelations that reveal mankind needs a Savor from eternal death which the annual Passover represents? Why would the Jews of all the 12 tribes of ancient Israel do that? Then all the tribes of ancient Israel accepted that change before the 10 northern tribes were exiled 2 Kings 17:23?
@@NathanFields-sh6xh I’m not assuming anything. I’m merely pointing you towards the appropriate resources.
I’d encourage you to read and watch the works of Islamic scholars if you want to know now more about the Islamic perspective on these subjects. That would be more beneficial for you than asking me.
@@raiseyourdeen Redirecting. As usual of Muslims smh. So then you should say NOTHING about Islam!
I was discussing with someone why Christians do not react as strongly to bible burnings as Muslims to the Quran. The difference is partly because of the differences in religion, and partly due to the way the scripture is viewed.
Firstly, Christianity teaches that God deal with blasphemers. it is not the duty of Christians. Christians may defend themselves or others, but God is capable of defending himself.
Seocndly, Christians see the bible as a human message of the revelation. it is not God written, it is human written and transmits that message, similar to how a television might transmit the news. Christians see the message as holy, not the bible. Muslims do not see the Quran the same way. To a Muslim the Quran is written by god (using Mohammad) and thus is holy in of itself.
This is why a devoted Christian will have a dogeared bible with notes scribbled all over it, sitting in their desk drawer... but a Muslim will have the Quran immaculate on a shelf. the Christian is trying to decipher the message using the bible. But for a Muslim, the Quran is the message.
Basically, for a Christian, it is not worth getting angry about a bible burning because God's message is far more than some scraps of paper.
You make some good points but I think your last paragraph come to the wrong conclusion.
Muslims aren’t getting angry because the Quran is the message itself and we’re somehow losing the message. Remember that tens of thousands of Muslims have memorised this text - burn every copy in the world and we can reproduce it instantly.
Muslims are getting angry because we want our beliefs and right to faith to be respected. Burning our holy text in front of our holy buildings in the name of “freedom of speech” is insulting and disrespectful. Everyone gets angry when you disrespect and insult them. It’s that simple.
JazakAllah kher for sharing your thoughts! I respect the fellow Muslim who decided not to burn the scripture of the other faiths although he had the permissions to do so. A Muslim can not be a true Muslim unless he believes in all the Holy scriptures but follow only the teachings of the Quran.
Keep up the good work doctor!
Yes that Muslim man showed the world we will not go to their level
@@raiseyourdeen "their level"? As if "we" are of higher morals? As if Islam ideology isn't just another worldly killing machine. SMH.
@@nur-azhar I don’t understand your question. Which version of the Quran…what?