I used to lap carbon seals for turbine engines. They needed to be FLAT considering this was hard carbon on stainless steel. If you want an even flat lapping, always use a figure of 8 pattern! A proper figure of 8, along with rotating the unit after a few laps, will self cancel out a ton of uneven pressure you may put on the unit.
I was waiting for someone to mention figure-85 lapping. That with "walking the circle" cancels out the uneven flatness, but the "paste" dries out and causes it's OWN problems, EVEN _IF_ you're diligent and use as THIN a layer of paste, as possible. Center clamp ok I IF that's what you want in order to feel more comfortable with your results, but DO NOT over-tighten corner screws, and if you've done your lapping CORRECTLY , NO center clamp necessary, and the flex in the pressure angle of the screw-threads (if your paste is THIN enough) is sufficient to get you the contact you need. Check it from time to time. Also' IF you use paste, it DRIES OUT over time anyway, obviating your bedst efforts anyway. BTW- the Sub-Micron "scratches" are NOT for " "grip". They're for increased contact surface area for the paste. He's right, tho about NOT polishing the faces, as Then you get a "boundary layer" effect that actually inhibits dissipation. Take it as high as you POSSIBLY can without adding a "polished" shine, and you'll get results reasonably close to your intended goal. Any better than that and you're looking at Pro-grade Shops , equipment and technicians - also valid IF _THAT'S_ your intent. Ok, ALL the BEST to ALL here- C.
forget the figure 8 and self cancel bullshit - just use consistent force, consistent sandpaper grit and a consistent flat surface for both the cpu and cpu cooler or use polishing compound and grind cpu and cpu cooler together until they fit well
@@kiyoponnn tell me how to use consistent pressure. It's impossible even with a jig, to do by hand. There's no way that I can think of to do consistent pressure 100% of the time
Float glass may be “perfectly” flat, however, it bows like a crazy, especially thin glass. It can conform to the surface it’s sitting on potentially creating a concave/convex surface. I would use a thicker piece of glass or buy a certified flat surface considering that you’re going for precision applications.
A granite surface plate for metrology would probably better or a precision lapping plate with diamond lapping paste would create the best flatness some theorize that a perfectly lapped cooler and cpu could be used without thermal paste
Me building a PC: I need to be relatively carefull not to damage parts. Jay: So im grinding down my parts and throwing a c clamp to keep it together while using vaseline on my gpu
I'll just leave my comment here -- this video is kind of ridiculous lol. Jay: "Even microns of difference on the copper will impact cooling!!!" Also Jay: "I'm going to leave VISIBLE scratching on the copper. Because it will help the paste bite." I'm going to go ahead and place a hefty wager that visible markings on copper leaves a huge number of 'microns' difference. Kind of silly. Now you need a whole other source, to take information seriously. Why not simply state what grit sandpaper will be the most effective? Is it 800? Why? What evidence or trials support that?
@@wes7839 lapping makes the CPU flatter which increases cooling through the greater surface area. He just left it feeling a bit rough so that the paste would hold more firmly. Think like you're sanding a piece of metal to paint. You sand it flat and smooth but still a little rough for the paint to hold.
top tip, color the surface you're lapping with sharpie, this shows exactly where the high points are and shows clearly if uneven pressure is being applied before you go TOO far,
When flattening sharpening stones, a common technique is to make a grid with a pencil and see how the pencil lines get ground off to see the high and low points
In a similar fashion, I also saw someone using a lit candle to put soot on a metal piece they wanted to flatten. The low spots retained the soot after sanding.
@@drabbitz2319 the only trouble with this technique is that you need to let the piece cool down after this process since if you flatten it immediately after that, the metal will move on you. Best is to use marking dye.
@@spyiro2007 lapping die (or soot probably) wouldn't work on the porous stones for sharpening, and pencils are very accessible. But yeah I'm sure for machine shops marking dye is the way to go
@@spyiro2007 I can't remember for what type of part the guy was using this, but he held it really far from the flame so probably low tepid temps? Not sure. But definitely marking dye would be excellent for this.
Jay, theres this tape we use in HVAC that is like a tar thats extremely resistant to cold weather. I think you should look into that, and it dosent melt. I think it will help you tremendously.
Mas do you think using a heat pump ground loop system would work on the pot if the cold side was around the pot and he heated the hot side with a high power heat gun? Scaled down of course.
Very entertaining video Jay! Some perspective for those wondering about engineering accuracy; My work consists of CNC polishing optical glass, specifically in manufacturing bespoke camera lenses for the film industry. It takes roughly an hour for a specialist calibrated and optimised CNC machine to polish a 60mm diameter piece of glass to ‘plano radius’ or 'flat' within -/+ 3um (0.003mm) (Human hair is 70-90um). To the point where a pass/fail could be down to the difference in ambient temperature in the building or heat from your hands. I use hand lapping to get the piece somewhere near flat prior to machining, that can be -/+ 5-10um on a professional setup. I admire your optimism in your perceived accuracy but you are not anywhere near your alleged ‘few microns’ tolerance across a surface of that size using that setup. It can be achieved manually, although it would need a very expensive lapping plate, DTI’s and/or CMM for reference and a lot of time and experience to get close to those figures by hand. If you do achieve a near perfect flatness across two opposite surfaces (specifically metals) they will wring 'adhere' to each other with an amazing amount of force.
Jay, a tip when lapping a surface is to use marking fluid or even sharpie ink as a way to see how much material has been taken off and how close to a flat surface you're getting. It's not only great for personal use but it's also great for the viewers pleasure. You would essentially coat the surface with the dye and then start lapping. The raised bits will have its markings sanded off while the lower bit will still be covered.
@@andystovell sounds like something MacGyvver would kill a server with. I guess you can just clean it off with some acetone when you're done lapping. But yeah it's a great tip.
Pro tip: 1. When Lapping you move your part in figure 8 patterns on the sandpaper without lifting it (for even wear). 2. If possible use multiple sheets of glass on top of each other because glass will bend very easily and reflect defects of the surface below. 3. You can use a sharpie to check how evenly you are sanding the surface, just color the whole surface inbetween lapping runs and check regularly if paint remains. BTW you are sanding, lapping is one of the most misused terms.
@@Great.Milenko Correct. Commercial surface plates are usually calibrated and reconditioned periodically. See, for a example, oxtroolco's videos on surface plates. Glass wouldn't even remotely be able to compete with those specs.
@@manuw.1161 Because overclocking is a benchmarking/competitive endeavor. Seeing purely how far these cards can be pushed is interesting especially when pushed to thermal extremes.
@@manuw.1161 Well you said it yourself, to reach performance like no other cooling solution. People using LN will probably only using it for that purpose right? Who cares if it's not usable, the number is all they search.
@@manuw.1161 on the surface it may not be applicable, but if you look back at specifically designed LN2 products(gpu's, motherboards, etc) a lot of the hardware eventually becomes standard on normal models. it's the same argument of why is racing a thing? no one will ever drive that fast on the road. well if it wasn't for racing we wouldn't have all the safety enhancements that have gone into consumer cars over the last 80 years or the efficiency improvements in engines.. a friggin smart car has more hp then a 8 cylinder from the 30's while getting 50mpg..
Jay: "...because tempered glass is perfectly flat" Me who's tempered glass: "No tf it isn't" Just get a machined lapping plate, costs about $30 or less and it's machined at higher tolerances than a flexible piece of glass.
As Penrowe pointed out, lapping copper is difficult as copper is a relatively soft metal. He wound up putting aluminum foil on top of a lapping block and barely managed to get the job done.
gonor silvershot a channel called oxtools made a series of videos about precision lapping and making lapping plates this process can produce better flatness than a machined plate and can be done at home with minimal tools with patience
My two cents on lapping at home: - Use a drop of dish soap with water on the sandpaper. This will prevent any binding in the paper resulting in a better finish. - Lap in a figure 8 pattern. This will ensure that you have sanded/lapped at all angles. Great stuff J!
Use machinist's dye (or color it completely with a Sharpie) when you think you are close. A few strokes and the high spots will be shiny and the low spots will be colored. Also works well for identifying contact areas for precision moving parts...close-tolerance bearings, firearms parts, etc.
I'm assuming that tightening the C-clamp while the paste was still frozen solid cracked the crap out of it. It may have been possible to warm it to get it to re-flow, but at these levels it was likely never going to be good enough to repeat that run because I believe the frozen crack pulls the paste out of the surface's micropores, and logic tells me that the only way to force the paste back is to start from scratch. Think of paving with asphalt, when they lay the asphalt down and put a roller on it, you get a nice smooth surface where it's nicely adhered to the subsurface, but if you were to freeze and crack it, it never comes back together, even after warming up on hot days and the structural integrity is ruined, you have to tear it up, re-prep the subsurface and start over again.I personally would avoid ever adjusting or touching the mount when it's frozen.
Just a tip. I usually mark a cross with a marker on the cooler base or the CPU IHS. You can check your progress if the lapping is even across the copper by stopping sometimes to see if the cross is coming away evenly and cleanly across the whole area being lapped. It also exposes if you are not lapping evenly or if the surface has a convex or concave profile so you're not having to guess.
Jay: "the camera won't be able to pick it up". also jay a second later well "you won't be able to see it with the naked eye" I knew it. Jay and his X-Ray eyes lol
It's nice to see the real process of overclocking, so many times I feel like why is this only happening with me when everyone else seems like it's first try they got it. Now you get the results of all that hard work troubleshooting and trying EVERYTHING, gratz.
We lap a lot of parts at the shop I work in and we found a figure 8 pattern to be the best and most consistent when lapping. Great content as always...
me: "I don't want to lap my CPU because it'll remove the labeling and will make it impossible to resell when I upgrade" also me: *has 8 or 9 CPUs collecting dust in the closet in a shoe box ranging from 2007 to 2018* "don't worry babies, ill never sell you"
Hi Jay! I'm a relief valve mechanic, and I lap steel and other various metals to a mirror polish every single day. I would actually recommend using something like a silicon carbide lapping compound in tandem with a lapping block to achieve a smooth surface on your cooler for better heat transfer. I think a 600 grit compound would give you a perfectly level surface, while still leaving enough micro grooves for the paste to do it's job. Cheers!
that genuine amount of relieve you had at 12:21 .. man i can really feel how excited you are and its making me hyped too. glad it worked out so great ^^
I wonder if actual lapping would be a good idea for CPUs? A very fine grit lapping compound between an IHS an the contact plate of whatever you're cooling the thing with would probably give a very good surface-to-surface fit. Obviously wouldn't work very well for GPU:s though, doubt the bare silicon would take kindly to it.
A channel called Penrowe did a video about precision lapping a cpu and cooler. Unfortunately he sold it pcgamer and they did a small article and never tested it. He theorized that you could you could use it without thermal paste
@@joshuahuman1 thermal paste is to allow for the maximum performance possible ... not using paste has been possible since the 286 ... those who wanted to overclock to ridiculous amounts used it to allow for the higher temperatures to be more readily dissipated through to the heat sink ... in 30 years nothing has changed ... except people forget that aluminium is a better cooling medium to use than copper ... is also lighter and is more easily surfaced to provide a uniform smooth area to attach too .... just because people think liquid cooled is cool doesnt change the fact it is the SAME tech we had back when the 286 was NEW ....
Jay: You need to get the result on the first run otherwise the card gets too cold Also Jay: So I kept doing runs and it's not working so I tried tightening the mount, why isn't this working?
Jay Jay Jay, you keep saying we are getting bored. I'm in Australia, into sim racing (Iracing) Dont have the flashiest computer and 50 Years old. I am loving the Journey you are taking me on. I'm not into over clocking but am drawn into the trying for better pushing for more, understanding your thoughts and working out more and more as you go along. I dont think you understand or realise just what you are giving to your viewers. it inspires me to have a go at some things keep up the good work.
Leaving the surface rough doesnt make the paste "stick better", the paste is already compressed and doesnt need to "stick" to anything. Leaving a rough surface increases surface area and increased surface area allows for more contact with the paste allowing more efficient heat dissipation.
If this is true, why don't most CPU's and Heatsinks come smooth with Billions of R and D and decades of experience? It would be trivial to etch in a pattern. I am curious to the answer?
Literally doesn't matter what sort of video's your making, I appreciate everything you make. I've been using computers since 86' with a commodore 64' and I've been in the IT industry for 20 years from a helpdesk pleb to a CTO and everything else in between. Even the stuff you'd consider mundane is still interesting as it's always good to keep in touch with foundational stuff and you give a lot of good insight for people who are just starting to dip their toe in the water, to seasoned professionals like myself who still look at some of the videos on occasion and go "huh.... I didn't realise that....". Keep on keeping on dude, your community appreciates you and those who don't, just don't know any better.
just because I'm burned out doesn't mean I wont keep chrome open and have the video playing all the way through in the background. Post what you enjoy Jay, the real supporters will support no matter what.
*Good video, but it's important to tell newcomers, that before lapping they have to ensure that they will be able to make a proper pressure between GPU/CPU and block. If the water block or cooler (especially GPU block) has mounting screws with stoppers, after lapping 0.5mm they may never make proper contact. Lapping is good but must be done properly*
The flatter and better you can get the surface roughness the better the thermal transfer will be, I don't know why he said "scratches are good for paste to bite into"... Theoretically if 2 pieces were perfectly flat when you put them together they would "weld" or become the same piece. Lookup gage blocks "wringing" together, interesting phenomena.
@@Steve_Just_Steve Under normal ambient air conditions you're right, the flatter the better, but I think I remember kingpin saying you want it scuffed when lapping for LN2 applications. I think it was in GN's video where they were lapping Steve's 7980XE
Great idea with the Vaseline. When winter surfing we put Vaseline on our faces being the only exposed skin, it helps a bit with not loosing as much heat from the skin and helps with the wind not being as harsh.
One small thing I like about these videos is jays shout outs for who's given him bits of advice. I've no interest in ever doing any of this but they're such good videos to watch.
Glass, for anyone not using ikea mirrors, is flatter than matters for printing. Ya know what isn’t flat enough? Aluminum beds. Even high end milled or whatever beds are not as flat as a $5 pane. Unless you’re wanting to spend $100+ on your bed, glass is gonna be the most flat build surface. Any deviations are gonna be too small to matter when first layers are .2-.4mm.
@@cutterboard4144 how thick is your glass? Even if you want to split hairs, .2 over the entire 240x240 bed is functionally perfectly flat when you’re using it to lap a 30x30 ihs somewhere within that 240x240 square
If we talk about lapping I'd like to mention that this isn't lapping but wet sanding/grinding, you are usually using a coated abrasive, some times with a layer of water in between the abrasive and the workpiece. Lapping on the other hand would be using loose abrasive in a liquid between a glass or cast iron plate and the workpiece as the abrasive rolls about between the two surfaces and removes material from both. This would also create a much finer and smooth surface than you get from wet sanding.
Tip from someone who used to prepare metal samples to a mirror finish with 0.05 micron diamond polish: just polish a bit on the first step, then switch to one stope up, just rotating 90 degrees, and it is done when the prior step's marks are gone. Go as far as you want. I would also recommend using water as a lubricant.
"Some groove is ok, you want the thermal paste to have some bite in there" - my understanding is the surfaces want to be as clean and tight-fitting as possible, thermal paste is secondary in thermal transfer to the die and block material, therefore you want as little thermal paste as possible, grooves would just increase the surface area/quantity of thermal paste, which in turn will retard thermal transfer as there's now more paste to pass through. The ideal scenario would be to have the surfaces as clean as gauge blocks with the barest hint of thermal paste to fill any microscopic imperfection. Lapping, yes, absolutely. Grooves? Nyet, lap those bastards until you can see a decent reflection.
Yup, you want to polish that thing to a mirror finish so there is as little groves as physically possible.. Also using something like Persian Blue or any lapping dye would be useful for identifying high spots.
Perfect mirrors work OK with small dies but with the size of modern GPUs or CPU heatspreaders and the viscosity of most thermal pastes, you want them very very flat with just the merest hint of surface texture to allow the paste to flow out under typical not-C-clamp mounting pressure.
@@mattd5136 Texture will aid static tension, not reduce it. Also a slight rotating side-to-side wiggle when applying the cooling block to the die is by far the best way to seat and minimise thermal paste in the contact, I've had a good 25 years of building to see what works just nice.
There is a fine line where a little groove does equate to more surface area for heat transfer, but that walks a razor's edge. I was playing around with aluminum cooling blocks for a while trying to see which heat paste had the best conductivity by measuring how long it took to raise the temp of a gallon of water. (using crappy lab procedures on my part most likely) I found that they worked best when there was flat blocks that had just a faint hint of texture to them. but with that being said, I suspect there may have been other stuff going on in that situation. .... I also may have had far to much free time with a walk in freezer.
I already know why lapping is important, something blatantly obvious that I hadn't thought of though is leaving the surface slightly rough for better thermal contact via increased surface area. Neat! Also, get a proper lapping surface! Don't trust plain glass. Not even my idea, but others have said it in the comments and I completely agree it's a worthwhile investment for those high scores.
The grain from the sand paper creates more surface area for the paste to "bond" too, and the groove give more surface area for heat to transfer. Also you can find a local machine shop who can put a flat surface with what ever RA finish) you want. They can get really accurate. WE used to design heat exchangers for aero space where 0.0001" tolerance was a mile. It will cost you, but will yield far better results. Google "Machine" shops near you, call them asking if they can do this to what ever spec you want, and get a quote.
The transfer of heat here is more-or-less all about surface area, so it makes sense that leaving a little roughness, without compromising flatness, would help the thermal paste do its work. On top of that, I presume the sanding will take off any oxidising on the surface of the copper and help with conductivity.
Nice Job Jay. Damn near perfection and your results show it. I love how you mention that the flatness needs to be with in microns to achieve those results. It really voices the spectrum of accuracy needed. Proud of you!
Yes! I’ve struggled with my AIO for a few weeks. I know it’s filled, I know the pump is good, it’s positioned well, push pull fans, but my temps are still not near as low as I know it being it down. I do have some groove scratches so.... off to the hardware store! I’m sure this is my problem now 🤙🏼 Thanks Jay
not sure my college will let me borrow use of their lab equipment and engineering department to make my PC run faster...even if I am a student...or maybe...I could ask...
No need to worry that we, the audience, get tired of watching these videos. For me, what keeps this interesting, is when there's progress or new information with each video. I would probably get tired of this if it was just the same thing over and over, but new elements, new methods of attempt, new discoveries etc.. All of that keeps it fresh and interesting. Thank you Jay for enduring the tedious and repetitive testing on your end, so that we can see the condensed interesting parts on our end.
I recommend that instead of taping the sandpaper down, you clamp down the copper so it doesn't move and use a small flat block with sandpaper stuck to it. This is because with the paper stuck down, as you rub the copper over it you have the chance to distort the paper which can cause an uneven finish. Also, you can spray a lite coat of paint on the copper before you start rubbing, this makes seeing where the uneven parts are easier as you rub.
People like to say that being slightly rough gives the thermal paste something to "bite too" but that doesn't seem to be the reason why it's actually better. Having a rougher surface increases the surface area. Even such small scratches means more surface area. So, there is an optimal roughness at which you get the maximum surface area increase, and an increase in heat transfer, without compromising the contact patch as a whole.
I've been lapping for decades. Best tool you can use is a sharpie. Make an X and dots on the surface, lap till the sharpie comes off evenly, then work up the grits. I've lapped the IHS and cooler in every build I've done since 1997. Most important thing you can do is lap wet in a proper figure 8 pattern. Also, get a proper lapping plate. I started off using glass from a picture frame and after upgrading to a lapping plate I realized how much less material I needed to remove to get it flat.
First cooler that I lapped was way back for my overheating AMD Athlon XP. It had nowhere enough cooling capacity (fully coated Al) but worked wonders, reducing about 6°Celsius. If I’m not mistaken, I went up to 8000 grit, with lots of water, over a granite sink. Sharpie method was used to check for bad spots that needed further work, as well as isopropyl alcohol to clean everything between each check. Also, never ever touch the prepped surface, oils from your fingers will interfere if you’re going for the “micron/mirror finish”. I wish I still had that time and will, to lap the IHS of an old Xeon that I have running overclocked and undervolted...
I always lap my sausage before frying for best pan contact
Ruski sausage
wow boris is here. thiccc lava time.
aaa true slav overclocker use mayonez
I never expected you here comrade...
Didn't expect you here Boris
I used to lap carbon seals for turbine engines. They needed to be FLAT considering this was hard carbon on stainless steel. If you want an even flat lapping, always use a figure of 8 pattern! A proper figure of 8, along with rotating the unit after a few laps, will self cancel out a ton of uneven pressure you may put on the unit.
I was waiting for someone to mention figure-85 lapping. That with "walking the circle" cancels out the uneven flatness, but the "paste" dries out and causes it's OWN problems, EVEN _IF_ you're diligent and use as THIN a layer of paste, as possible. Center clamp ok I IF that's what you want in order to feel more comfortable with your results, but DO NOT over-tighten corner screws, and if you've done your lapping CORRECTLY , NO center clamp necessary, and the flex in the pressure angle of the screw-threads (if your paste is THIN enough) is sufficient to get you the contact you need. Check it from time to time. Also' IF you use paste, it DRIES OUT over time anyway, obviating your bedst efforts anyway. BTW- the Sub-Micron "scratches" are NOT for " "grip". They're for increased contact surface area for the paste.
He's right, tho about NOT polishing the faces, as Then you get a "boundary layer" effect that actually inhibits dissipation.
Take it as high as you POSSIBLY can without adding a "polished" shine, and you'll get results reasonably close to your intended goal. Any better than that and you're looking at Pro-grade Shops , equipment and technicians - also valid IF _THAT'S_ your intent.
Ok, ALL the BEST to ALL here-
C.
Lapping carbon seals for turbines….your my hero.
forget the figure 8 and self cancel bullshit - just use consistent force, consistent sandpaper grit and a consistent flat surface for both the cpu and cpu cooler or use polishing compound and grind cpu and cpu cooler together until they fit well
@@kiyoponnn tell me how to use consistent pressure. It's impossible even with a jig, to do by hand. There's no way that I can think of to do consistent pressure 100% of the time
@@Tadders use a weight or something ya dip
Float glass may be “perfectly” flat, however, it bows like a crazy, especially thin glass. It can conform to the surface it’s sitting on potentially creating a concave/convex surface. I would use a thicker piece of glass or buy a certified flat surface considering that you’re going for precision applications.
polished granite kitchen worktop/granite surface table
A granite surface plate for metrology would probably better or a precision lapping plate with diamond lapping paste would create the best flatness some theorize that a perfectly lapped cooler and cpu could be used without thermal paste
@@joshuahuman1 that’s no theory. In machining you have so perfectly flat metal plates for measuring, that they just stick together like suction cups
@@joshuahuman1 possible yes ... but not to over clock ... again EVEN spread of the paste which is a heat conductor and micro abrasion filler ...
yeah he has the basics down but his technique isnt the greatest
Me building a PC: I need to be relatively carefull not to damage parts.
Jay: So im grinding down my parts and throwing a c clamp to keep it together while using vaseline on my gpu
That is some funny stuff right there
@@JesseGaming7593 funny "stuffs"
I'll just leave my comment here -- this video is kind of ridiculous lol.
Jay: "Even microns of difference on the copper will impact cooling!!!"
Also Jay: "I'm going to leave VISIBLE scratching on the copper. Because it will help the paste bite."
I'm going to go ahead and place a hefty wager that visible markings on copper leaves a huge number of 'microns' difference. Kind of silly. Now you need a whole other source, to take information seriously. Why not simply state what grit sandpaper will be the most effective? Is it 800? Why? What evidence or trials support that?
@@wes7839 lapping makes the CPU flatter which increases cooling through the greater surface area. He just left it feeling a bit rough so that the paste would hold more firmly. Think like you're sanding a piece of metal to paint. You sand it flat and smooth but still a little rough for the paint to hold.
@@christopherdavies7403 what does he mean by "lapping the cpu"?
top tip, color the surface you're lapping with sharpie, this shows exactly where the high points are and shows clearly if uneven pressure is being applied before you go TOO far,
Great tip to gauge your work.
When flattening sharpening stones, a common technique is to make a grid with a pencil and see how the pencil lines get ground off to see the high and low points
In a similar fashion, I also saw someone using a lit candle to put soot on a metal piece they wanted to flatten. The low spots retained the soot after sanding.
@@drabbitz2319 ahh that's clever. Probably wouldn't want to do that if you're lapping a cpu die, though xD
@@drabbitz2319 the only trouble with this technique is that you need to let the piece cool down after this process since if you flatten it immediately after that, the metal will move on you. Best is to use marking dye.
@@spyiro2007 lapping die (or soot probably) wouldn't work on the porous stones for sharpening, and pencils are very accessible.
But yeah I'm sure for machine shops marking dye is the way to go
@@spyiro2007 I can't remember for what type of part the guy was using this, but he held it really far from the flame so probably low tepid temps? Not sure. But definitely marking dye would be excellent for this.
Jay, theres this tape we use in HVAC that is like a tar thats extremely resistant to cold weather. I think you should look into that, and it dosent melt. I think it will help you tremendously.
Sounds like bituthene or roofing ice/water shield.
I wish I could tell you, I haven't done AC in 15yrs. But I know they still use it
great idea!!
Mas do you think using a heat pump ground loop system would work on the pot if the cold side was around the pot and he heated the hot side with a high power heat gun? Scaled down of course.
dont need tar ... need thermally conductive micro particulate paste you WANT the heat and cold to transfer as fast and efficiently as possible ...
I love the extreme overclocking videos, theyre pretty entertaining
ZzzzZzzz
yeah event if never gonna to this stuff i like that !! we need more videos
Yea while watching jay get frustrated
Jay said you’re getting burned out! Don’t make Jay a liar!!
Definitely second the motion, that's probably my favorite content on this channel
For what it’s worth, I’m loving this series
Nick, it worries me when the channels I subscribe to cross streams. The Ghostbusters told me it would be bad.
When one of your favorite knife/edc reviewers wanders over to your favorite pc/tech guy channels....
what. the. fuck. crossover of a lifetime right now
Hello there! I didn't know you were a tech nerd too!
Very entertaining video Jay! Some perspective for those wondering about engineering accuracy; My work consists of CNC polishing optical glass, specifically in manufacturing bespoke camera lenses for the film industry. It takes roughly an hour for a specialist calibrated and optimised CNC machine to polish a 60mm diameter piece of glass to ‘plano radius’ or 'flat' within -/+ 3um (0.003mm) (Human hair is 70-90um). To the point where a pass/fail could be down to the difference in ambient temperature in the building or heat from your hands. I use hand lapping to get the piece somewhere near flat prior to machining, that can be -/+ 5-10um on a professional setup. I admire your optimism in your perceived accuracy but you are not anywhere near your alleged ‘few microns’ tolerance across a surface of that size using that setup. It can be achieved manually, although it would need a very expensive lapping plate, DTI’s and/or CMM for reference and a lot of time and experience to get close to those figures by hand. If you do achieve a near perfect flatness across two opposite surfaces (specifically metals) they will wring 'adhere' to each other with an amazing amount of force.
Jay, a tip when lapping a surface is to use marking fluid or even sharpie ink as a way to see how much material has been taken off and how close to a flat surface you're getting. It's not only great for personal use but it's also great for the viewers pleasure. You would essentially coat the surface with the dye and then start lapping. The raised bits will have its markings sanded off while the lower bit will still be covered.
Don't quote me on this, but I think someone said that the chemicals In a sharpie aren't good for the CPU. I would love to know if this is just a myth
@@andystovell sounds like something MacGyvver would kill a server with.
I guess you can just clean it off with some acetone when you're done lapping. But yeah it's a great tip.
@@lordsqueak to be fair, Jay isn't above a bit of MacGyvvering haha.
@@andystovell And that's what we want to see ;)
You sound like a TV chef talking about the perfect method to cook the meal.
Lmao like Ramsay all coked up and out of breath.
"Now we’re going to overclock the onyon"
Trust me we aren’t getting burnt out
Are we getting cold feet though ?
We were giving the cold shoulder.
🎶 “...willing to sacrifice our love”
Pro tip:
1. When Lapping you move your part in figure 8 patterns on the sandpaper without lifting it (for even wear).
2. If possible use multiple sheets of glass on top of each other because glass will bend very easily and reflect defects of the surface below.
3. You can use a sharpie to check how evenly you are sanding the surface, just color the whole surface inbetween lapping runs and check regularly if paint remains.
BTW you are sanding, lapping is one of the most misused terms.
The sharpie is key to make sure you're sanding what needs to be flattened
Circle is just as good
"Glass is perfectly flat" every machinist replacing their expensive granite surface plates with glass. Invest in a lapping plate.
I'm not sure I'd even call this lapping tbh. sure its TECHNICALLY lapping but its nowhere near properly accurate.
Have to be careful with granite, sometimes they are ground to have a spherical surface based on what was used to flatten it.
@@timlaunyc I don't think anyone makes curved lapping plates? Maybe I'm wrong but it doesn't seem useful
Just do some 3d printing on a glass plate. You will see how, not flat glass is. Especially when talking about Microns
@@Great.Milenko Correct. Commercial surface plates are usually calibrated and reconditioned periodically. See, for a example, oxtroolco's videos on surface plates. Glass wouldn't even remotely be able to compete with those specs.
Who's getting burned out? You're the only chanel I follow that regularly talks about this stuff.
WE ARE NOT BURNED OUT JAY, don’t blame us! ;)
We are burned out..... overclocking videos are mostly ...tip liquid nitrogen, look at numbers...repeat until asleep
Why is LN cooling even a thing. It's not reasonably applicable and only for reaching performance you can't even use.
@@manuw.1161 Because overclocking is a benchmarking/competitive endeavor. Seeing purely how far these cards can be pushed is interesting especially when pushed to thermal extremes.
@@manuw.1161 Well you said it yourself, to reach performance like no other cooling solution. People using LN will probably only using it for that purpose right? Who cares if it's not usable, the number is all they search.
@@manuw.1161 on the surface it may not be applicable, but if you look back at specifically designed LN2 products(gpu's, motherboards, etc) a lot of the hardware eventually becomes standard on normal models. it's the same argument of why is racing a thing? no one will ever drive that fast on the road. well if it wasn't for racing we wouldn't have all the safety enhancements that have gone into consumer cars over the last 80 years or the efficiency improvements in engines.. a friggin smart car has more hp then a 8 cylinder from the 30's while getting 50mpg..
Woo, love Overclocking!
Jay: Just one more LN2. Just one more...
Everyone:
Jay: I dOnT hAvE a PrObLeM i CaN sToP aNyTiMe I wAnT!!
Jay: "...because tempered glass is perfectly flat"
Me who's tempered glass: "No tf it isn't"
Just get a machined lapping plate, costs about $30 or less and it's machined at higher tolerances than a flexible piece of glass.
As Penrowe pointed out, lapping copper is difficult as copper is a relatively soft metal. He wound up putting aluminum foil on top of a lapping block and barely managed to get the job done.
gonor silvershot a channel called oxtools made a series of videos about precision lapping and making lapping plates this process can produce better flatness than a machined plate and can be done at home with minimal tools with patience
Jay: "today were going to be taking you on a lapping ride"
me: ya might want to buy me a few drinks first. Oh waait wrong lapping
Sure you not thinking of the Lapping Dance Club LOL
😂
Best pun round here
My two cents on lapping at home:
- Use a drop of dish soap with water on the sandpaper. This will prevent any binding in the paper resulting in a better finish.
- Lap in a figure 8 pattern. This will ensure that you have sanded/lapped at all angles.
Great stuff J!
Dykem/marking fluid could go a long way to help isolate where material is being removed...
Or just a quick scribble with a sharpie
Glass is “perfectly” flat. Go sit in front of a squared in mill for a little while with some glass. 😂
Use machinist's dye (or color it completely with a Sharpie) when you think you are close. A few strokes and the high spots will be shiny and the low spots will be colored. Also works well for identifying contact areas for precision moving parts...close-tolerance bearings, firearms parts, etc.
Hot Tip: For LN2 cooling use one whole Verge of thermal paste.
I see what you did there.
Nice, Verge is now a unit of measurement.
+1 for making a Verge an SI unit for applying paste ^^ - 1Vg = the whole tube.
Lapping - darn I thought he was trying to get Phil to set on his lap.
You have to be a Patreon supporter to see that part.
I thought he was talking about licking it with that thumbnail. Just like how a dog laps up water.
0:52 "So, today we're going to be taking you on a lapping ride..."
I'm assuming that tightening the C-clamp while the paste was still frozen solid cracked the crap out of it. It may have been possible to warm it to get it to re-flow, but at these levels it was likely never going to be good enough to repeat that run because I believe the frozen crack pulls the paste out of the surface's micropores, and logic tells me that the only way to force the paste back is to start from scratch. Think of paving with asphalt, when they lay the asphalt down and put a roller on it, you get a nice smooth surface where it's nicely adhered to the subsurface, but if you were to freeze and crack it, it never comes back together, even after warming up on hot days and the structural integrity is ruined, you have to tear it up, re-prep the subsurface and start over again.I personally would avoid ever adjusting or touching the mount when it's frozen.
Just a tip. I usually mark a cross with a marker on the cooler base or the CPU IHS. You can check your progress if the lapping is even across the copper by stopping sometimes to see if the cross is coming away evenly and cleanly across the whole area being lapped. It also exposes if you are not lapping evenly or if the surface has a convex or concave profile so you're not having to guess.
Jay: "the camera won't be able to pick it up". also jay a second later well "you won't be able to see it with the naked eye"
I knew it. Jay and his X-Ray eyes lol
On a side note can everyone go give Kyle from BitWit some love.
yes
the guy could use it
Yeah, that mans needs some love rn
The poor guy. I know what he's going through. I went through it myself. Yes, give encouragement guys.
why something wrong with him?
Rick Sanchez - “you want to experience true level?”
Ahh, I see you're a man of culture as well
Came to make the same comment. Well said, my internet friend.
"theres a little bit of water there" and jay points to a water droplet on my screen
SOCERCY!!
It's nice to see the real process of overclocking, so many times I feel like why is this only happening with me when everyone else seems like it's first try they got it. Now you get the results of all that hard work troubleshooting and trying EVERYTHING, gratz.
We lap a lot of parts at the shop I work in and we found a figure 8 pattern to be the best and most consistent when lapping. Great content as always...
Saying we're burnt out when all we want is more, lol
me: "I don't want to lap my CPU because it'll remove the labeling and will make it impossible to resell when I upgrade"
also me: *has 8 or 9 CPUs collecting dust in the closet in a shoe box ranging from 2007 to 2018* "don't worry babies, ill never sell you"
me but with gpus
THIS GUY GETS IT, FINALLY!!!!!!
Build a display cabinet for them to show where your computers have come and what the new stuff looks like
As a high precision machinist, this makes me cringe hard, love the channel btw.
Same, wish I could work to microns by hand and eye, but as you said I love the channel too :)
yeah the micron and glass is perfectly flat part had me too xD
Hi Jay! I'm a relief valve mechanic, and I lap steel and other various metals to a mirror polish every single day. I would actually recommend using something like a silicon carbide lapping compound in tandem with a lapping block to achieve a smooth surface on your cooler for better heat transfer. I think a 600 grit compound would give you a perfectly level surface, while still leaving enough micro grooves for the paste to do it's job. Cheers!
that genuine amount of relieve you had at 12:21 .. man i can really feel how excited you are and its making me hyped too.
glad it worked out so great ^^
Jays intro this last month: "You guys are getting extremely burnt out"
I'm getting burned out on hearing that I'm burned out
This isn't lapping. This is sanding.
Great stuff though. Loved the vid
I wonder if actual lapping would be a good idea for CPUs? A very fine grit lapping compound between an IHS an the contact plate of whatever you're cooling the thing with would probably give a very good surface-to-surface fit. Obviously wouldn't work very well for GPU:s though, doubt the bare silicon would take kindly to it.
A channel called Penrowe did a video about precision lapping a cpu and cooler. Unfortunately he sold it pcgamer and they did a small article and never tested it. He theorized that you could you could use it without thermal paste
@@joshuahuman1 thermal paste is to allow for the maximum performance possible ... not using paste has been possible since the 286 ... those who wanted to overclock to ridiculous amounts used it to allow for the higher temperatures to be more readily dissipated through to the heat sink ... in 30 years nothing has changed ... except people forget that aluminium is a better cooling medium to use than copper ... is also lighter and is more easily surfaced to provide a uniform smooth area to attach too .... just because people think liquid cooled is cool doesnt change the fact it is the SAME tech we had back when the 286 was NEW ....
@@0623kaboom Well.. None of that is even remotely true.
Jay: You need to get the result on the first run otherwise the card gets too cold
Also Jay: So I kept doing runs and it's not working so I tried tightening the mount, why isn't this working?
Jay Jay Jay, you keep saying we are getting bored. I'm in Australia, into sim racing (Iracing) Dont have the flashiest computer and 50 Years old. I am loving the Journey you are taking me on. I'm not into over clocking but am drawn into the trying for better pushing for more, understanding your thoughts and working out more and more as you go along. I dont think you understand or realise just what you are giving to your viewers. it inspires me to have a go at some things keep up the good work.
Hearing Jay being happy because the lapping worked. That's the best sound tbh. Keep it going Jay it's worth it
I felt jays happiness when he got that 18000 score
I hate that this comment is on top... Major spoiler.
@@skarf1428 Well... watch the video before reading comments? :D
Leaving the surface rough doesnt make the paste "stick better", the paste is already compressed and doesnt need to "stick" to anything. Leaving a rough surface increases surface area and increased surface area allows for more contact with the paste allowing more efficient heat dissipation.
If this is true, why don't most CPU's and Heatsinks come smooth with Billions of R and D and decades of experience? It would be trivial to etch in a pattern. I am curious to the answer?
Me, who laps every cooler and CPU he ever buys:
"Finally - vindication!"
The CPU?
@@slm8328 Yep - no reason not to once the warranty expires.
@@JMUDoc I wouldn't try anything with it after the warranty expires.
@@slm8328
Why not?
do you also do extreme overclocking or you do it just for the peace of mind better contact?
Literally doesn't matter what sort of video's your making, I appreciate everything you make. I've been using computers since 86' with a commodore 64' and I've been in the IT industry for 20 years from a helpdesk pleb to a CTO and everything else in between. Even the stuff you'd consider mundane is still interesting as it's always good to keep in touch with foundational stuff and you give a lot of good insight for people who are just starting to dip their toe in the water, to seasoned professionals like myself who still look at some of the videos on occasion and go "huh.... I didn't realise that....". Keep on keeping on dude, your community appreciates you and those who don't, just don't know any better.
just because I'm burned out doesn't mean I wont keep chrome open and have the video playing all the way through in the background. Post what you enjoy Jay, the real supporters will support no matter what.
Love the overclocking and hardware videos... Linus is just building PC's Jay is still making cool content
Jayz my fave but GN Steve is a close second, first fun then fact finding deep dives
I'm not burnt out at all on the extreme overclocking, they're your best videos.
Jay: *Gets good viewership*
Also Jay: "You guys are getting burned out!"
Not burning out on this topic. I'm rooting for your success and find the process really fascinating.
I love the "Copper" heatsinks on the VRM!!
Sadly many people who have no experience/knowledge how real copper looks like fall for those.
*Good video, but it's important to tell newcomers, that before lapping they have to ensure that they will be able to make a proper pressure between GPU/CPU and block. If the water block or cooler (especially GPU block) has mounting screws with stoppers, after lapping 0.5mm they may never make proper contact. Lapping is good but must be done properly*
When I lap my CPU I did it until it was like a mirror, with up to 1600 sandpaper, the temps inproved a lot, arround 9ºC less at full load.
A delided CPU is not made with sandpaper. A delided CPU means you removed the heatspreader from the die etc.
@@VenoXj1 I mean lap, I don't know why I wrote delid XD
The flatter and better you can get the surface roughness the better the thermal transfer will be, I don't know why he said "scratches are good for paste to bite into"... Theoretically if 2 pieces were perfectly flat when you put them together they would "weld" or become the same piece. Lookup gage blocks "wringing" together, interesting phenomena.
@@Steve_Just_Steve Under normal ambient air conditions you're right, the flatter the better, but I think I remember kingpin saying you want it scuffed when lapping for LN2 applications. I think it was in GN's video where they were lapping Steve's 7980XE
@@Eidolon2003 interesting
Now we all have a excuse for having vaseline next to our pc
@Ssssb I had someone ask me why there's vaseline in my tool box. I said, "you're kidding me right?" It was right next to my paint gun.
Great idea with the Vaseline. When winter surfing we put Vaseline on our faces being the only exposed skin, it helps a bit with not loosing as much heat from the skin and helps with the wind not being as harsh.
One small thing I like about these videos is jays shout outs for who's given him bits of advice.
I've no interest in ever doing any of this but they're such good videos to watch.
Me when I seen the title: "Ah yes, lapping is very necessary. What's that?"
Total basic
@@LPgmxDan whats the D stand for
@@sharifnasser7635 Dan
"because glass is perfectly flat"...? everyone doing 3d prints on glass will disagree.
But most 3d printers aren't even calibrated enough that the imperfections in the glass matter. Usually it is one of the axis that are not firm enough.
Glass, for anyone not using ikea mirrors, is flatter than matters for printing. Ya know what isn’t flat enough? Aluminum beds. Even high end milled or whatever beds are not as flat as a $5 pane. Unless you’re wanting to spend $100+ on your bed, glass is gonna be the most flat build surface. Any deviations are gonna be too small to matter when first layers are .2-.4mm.
@@HE-162 my 240*240mm Glassbed has ~.2mm deviation from highest to lowest point. measured at a 4*4 grid with a weight cell sensor.
I was going to say the same.
@@cutterboard4144 how thick is your glass? Even if you want to split hairs, .2 over the entire 240x240 bed is functionally perfectly flat when you’re using it to lap a 30x30 ihs somewhere within that 240x240 square
"why are you vasilining up the card" as a portuguese speaking, hearing this made me laugh a lot
Me too 😂😂😂
Me want chuckle too
Whats it mean in Portuguese?
@@parzivalplays8188 por que você está vasilinando o cartão
Use google translate to play it
It sounds hilarious in Portuguese
Jay few weeks ago, I'm done with this... it was stupid of me to even get into it.
Jay today... WooWee new record.
we are not burned out by your overclocking videos! we love it!
"which has caused me to ignore something that is so obvious... " declines call from his wife.
What the hell? A greek in the third spot? Didn't even know we had an strong oc community here. Certainly haven't heard the OGS guy
ella re malaka
You have now bro :)
All the money the EU sent is well spent
When he rubs that do any of you get that tingly feeling
If we talk about lapping I'd like to mention that this isn't lapping but wet sanding/grinding, you are usually using a coated abrasive, some times with a layer of water in between the abrasive and the workpiece. Lapping on the other hand would be using loose abrasive in a liquid between a glass or cast iron plate and the workpiece as the abrasive rolls about between the two surfaces and removes material from both. This would also create a much finer and smooth surface than you get from wet sanding.
Tip from someone who used to prepare metal samples to a mirror finish with 0.05 micron diamond polish: just polish a bit on the first step, then switch to one stope up, just rotating 90 degrees, and it is done when the prior step's marks are gone. Go as far as you want. I would also recommend using water as a lubricant.
"Some groove is ok, you want the thermal paste to have some bite in there" - my understanding is the surfaces want to be as clean and tight-fitting as possible, thermal paste is secondary in thermal transfer to the die and block material, therefore you want as little thermal paste as possible, grooves would just increase the surface area/quantity of thermal paste, which in turn will retard thermal transfer as there's now more paste to pass through. The ideal scenario would be to have the surfaces as clean as gauge blocks with the barest hint of thermal paste to fill any microscopic imperfection. Lapping, yes, absolutely. Grooves? Nyet, lap those bastards until you can see a decent reflection.
Yup, you want to polish that thing to a mirror finish so there is as little groves as physically possible.. Also using something like Persian Blue or any lapping dye would be useful for identifying high spots.
Perfect mirrors work OK with small dies but with the size of modern GPUs or CPU heatspreaders and the viscosity of most thermal pastes, you want them very very flat with just the merest hint of surface texture to allow the paste to flow out under typical not-C-clamp mounting pressure.
@@mattd5136 Texture will aid static tension, not reduce it. Also a slight rotating side-to-side wiggle when applying the cooling block to the die is by far the best way to seat and minimise thermal paste in the contact, I've had a good 25 years of building to see what works just nice.
There is a fine line where a little groove does equate to more surface area for heat transfer, but that walks a razor's edge. I was playing around with aluminum cooling blocks for a while trying to see which heat paste had the best conductivity by measuring how long it took to raise the temp of a gallon of water. (using crappy lab procedures on my part most likely) I found that they worked best when there was flat blocks that had just a faint hint of texture to them. but with that being said, I suspect there may have been other stuff going on in that situation. .... I also may have had far to much free time with a walk in freezer.
"...glass is perfectly flat." 🤨
Imperfect use of the word perfect
;=)) !
"Glass is perfectly flat." _Makes pedantic noises._
I know right when you learn about the world of precision you learn that even the flattest surfaces are not truly flat or perfect
the only time glass is actually flat is just before they lift it off the cooling bed ... after that it never is flat again ...
I already know why lapping is important, something blatantly obvious that I hadn't thought of though is leaving the surface slightly rough for better thermal contact via increased surface area. Neat!
Also, get a proper lapping surface! Don't trust plain glass. Not even my idea, but others have said it in the comments and I completely agree it's a worthwhile investment for those high scores.
2:25 Tempered glass is almost guaranteed to not be flat. Float glass is the only choice. As far as glass goes that is.
Dankpods: *sees high grit sandpaper* "amateur"
Watch out, 1 grit!
Aw my Pukcell
Who is this dankpods? All I can find on RUclips is this ipod channel that definitely doesn't do any overclocking.
@@BlackHeartScyther that's the one; no, he definitely doesn't; it's a sort of running gag with that guy
“Today we’re gonna take you along for a lapping ride”
“One could almost call it a lap dance”
It makes me sad to see Skunkworks decomposing in the background like that
The grain from the sand paper creates more surface area for the paste to "bond" too, and the groove give more surface area for heat to transfer. Also you can find a local machine shop who can put a flat surface with what ever RA finish) you want. They can get really accurate. WE used to design heat exchangers for aero space where 0.0001" tolerance was a mile. It will cost you, but will yield far better results. Google "Machine" shops near you, call them asking if they can do this to what ever spec you want, and get a quote.
The transfer of heat here is more-or-less all about surface area, so it makes sense that leaving a little roughness, without compromising flatness, would help the thermal paste do its work. On top of that, I presume the sanding will take off any oxidising on the surface of the copper and help with conductivity.
is it just me or does Jay look like hes being lit by the sun 6inchs above his head. the lights a little blown out in this one.?
thats just the Grey hair taking over from all the failed LN2 OCing. Poor Jay.
11:32
The Verge: A THERMALPASTE APPLICATOR 👁👃🏻👁
also called an icecream to go spoon
Don’t worry Jay we went Burnt out your 3090 on the other hand, she’s had it tough
Nice Job Jay. Damn near perfection and your results show it. I love how you mention that the flatness needs to be with in microns to achieve those results. It really voices the spectrum of accuracy needed. Proud of you!
Yes! I’ve struggled with my AIO for a few weeks. I know it’s filled, I know the pump is good, it’s positioned well, push pull fans, but my temps are still not near as low as I know it being it down. I do have some groove scratches so.... off to the hardware store! I’m sure this is my problem now 🤙🏼
Thanks Jay
Last time I was this early the Skunkworks didn't have any gunk in it.
(did I make this joke already?)
Guys, you are tired, before doing reviews, you first read about FBC14 algorithm
Spam
[Pushes bridge of glasses to forehead] Actually, this isn't lapping, just sanding:
ruclips.net/video/sQw20rHvpRw/видео.html
THIS is the real content here. Great link, thanks man!!
not sure my college will let me borrow use of their lab equipment and engineering department to make my PC run faster...even if I am a student...or maybe...I could ask...
Ay someone knows penrowe
I recommend oxtoolco as well great machining content
yes. I work with a professionell lapping machine / enviroment and can confirm this isn't lapping.
@@ceilyurie856 I mean, if you do it for "research," then there's a chance. Just write a paper on it Lol
No need to worry that we, the audience, get tired of watching these videos.
For me, what keeps this interesting, is when there's progress or new information with each video. I would probably get tired of this if it was just the same thing over and over, but new elements, new methods of attempt, new discoveries etc.. All of that keeps it fresh and interesting.
Thank you Jay for enduring the tedious and repetitive testing on your end, so that we can see the condensed interesting parts on our end.
Klingspoor wet dry paper, made in Germany, best sandpaper i have ever used for this Jay. 3M is garbage next to it and it cleans very easily.
jay if its temperd glass jay it wont be perfecty flat.
Are you saying it was ... tampered with?
FBC14 algorithm is the best, there is no point in arguing with this
Yes there is.
@@GFG2gifted no there isn't.
@@corinelson7837 then why argue? Because you just entered yourself into an argument that you also said there is no point in having. Make up your mind.
@@GFG2gifted because beer. And challenging the mind from time to time is healthy.
@@corinelson7837 thank you for proving my point. Hope you quit drinking like I did. 🙏
I recommend that instead of taping the sandpaper down, you clamp down the copper so it doesn't move and use a small flat block with sandpaper stuck to it. This is because with the paper stuck down, as you rub the copper over it you have the chance to distort the paper which can cause an uneven finish. Also, you can spray a lite coat of paint on the copper before you start rubbing, this makes seeing where the uneven parts are easier as you rub.
Definitely NOT burnt out! Keep it comin!!
People like to say that being slightly rough gives the thermal paste something to "bite too" but that doesn't seem to be the reason why it's actually better. Having a rougher surface increases the surface area. Even such small scratches means more surface area. So, there is an optimal roughness at which you get the maximum surface area increase, and an increase in heat transfer, without compromising the contact patch as a whole.
I am not burned out in the slightest with XOC stuff, pretty informative and fun to watch
I've been lapping for decades. Best tool you can use is a sharpie. Make an X and dots on the surface, lap till the sharpie comes off evenly, then work up the grits. I've lapped the IHS and cooler in every build I've done since 1997. Most important thing you can do is lap wet in a proper figure 8 pattern. Also, get a proper lapping plate. I started off using glass from a picture frame and after upgrading to a lapping plate I realized how much less material I needed to remove to get it flat.
Your extreme overclocking videos are honestly the most entertaining you’ve ever made lol
First cooler that I lapped was way back for my overheating AMD Athlon XP. It had nowhere enough cooling capacity (fully coated Al) but worked wonders, reducing about 6°Celsius.
If I’m not mistaken, I went up to 8000 grit, with lots of water, over a granite sink. Sharpie method was used to check for bad spots that needed further work, as well as isopropyl alcohol to clean everything between each check.
Also, never ever touch the prepped surface, oils from your fingers will interfere if you’re going for the “micron/mirror finish”.
I wish I still had that time and will, to lap the IHS of an old Xeon that I have running overclocked and undervolted...
this reminds me of honing cylinder bores in engines and the final step of machining brake rotors, makes complete sense to me.