Semi active radar homing missiles need to be guided in by radar until they hit. So when U fire them and then turn away youll loose track and the missiles go dumb
@@Nobody10115 it cant, with phoenixes it can but its because those are active, they only need TWS rather than the lock a SARH missile requires i think the mig-31 can guide multiple SARH missiles but i know of no other plane that does that
@@heggle- I thought F-14 and F-4 could guide more than one AIM-7, but only on one target. Well I guess with SARH as long as you keep one plane as the target you could guide multiple as long as the track is uninterrupted.
On this episode of "The Deadliest Catch", the Time Bandit gets sunk by a Shipwreck missile. The Northwestern gets rammed by a Victor 3-class submarine and The Wizard has another injured Deckhand.
"Sig Hansen then manages to evade an Kh-22 Kitchen Missile attack through the succesful use of the 'Marlboro' Smokescreen tactic, ensuring the survival of the boat, and the precious cargo of Alaskan King Crab."
So you got curious about how the Kidd, Spruance, and the Ticonderoga were able to engage. The 5in/54 cal mk45 cannon was being directed by the Mark 86 Gun Fire Control System with the AN/SPQ-9A (Ticonderoga, kidd and Spruance) or the AN/SPG-60 (Spruance and Kidd).It uses a remote optical sighting system that uses a tv camera, with zoom, that can direct the weapon onto an illuminated target, like shining a flashlight connected to a machine gun. The Perry has a Mark 92 fire control system, same thing.
I was about to make the same comment. Although I would replace "aircraft" with "launch platform", you can launch semi active radar guided missiles from all kinds of launchers: aircraft, ships, ground units, etc.
I think the issue you're running into is by salvoing the two radar guided missiles the aircraft RTBs immediately after and doesn't maintain the lock. Seems to be an AI Behavior that needs adjusted
The project 1153 (itself based on an early-1970s Project 1160, confusingly also named Orel, even 10,000 tonnes heavier) was cancelled in October 1978 as being too expensive, and a smaller Project 1143.5, more V/STOL-aircraft-oriented, was developed instead: in its initial stage, a version of 65,000 tons and 52 aircraft was proposed, but the actual Kuznetsov-class aircraft carriers are even smaller, about 55,000 tons.
P-700 Granit was actually designed to be a submarine launched AShM, so the tubes in the Oscars were flooded before launch, and since the Kirov also has the same weapons onboard, it too has to flood its tube before launch, which is a bit odd for a surface ship, but IT'S RUSSIA, so anything is possible.
Just looked through your recent videos view counts, you are killing it dude! ICBM and Frostpunk have been completely overshadowed by Sea Power. Keep up the great work!
Your fleet formation needs more flexibility. Don't bring your ships closer together for "protection" it simply limits the engagement envelope of the fleet and they get beat quicker. You also posted your light ships in a straight line, which means they will all be positioned to engage each incoming missile at roughly the same time, which results in over-engaging the target and potentially wasting missiles. I understand why you did it, it's the "all weapons to the front" aspect of linear warfare. But you would actually be better placing your ships in a line parallel to the incoming missile flight, allowing each ship to engage in turn, meaning most missiles will be engaged in turn, so if a missile is destroyed it's not yet in the engagement envelope of the ships further back in the line, and they are available to engage missiles later on. This means a box or arrow head formation (for width of defence) ahead of your high value assets, will be more effective, with overlapping engagement envelopes in depth. It's also a good tactic to have a good air defence Frigate BEHIND your high value assets, that way it is protected from early penetration and can act as a "goalkeeper" for anything that penetrates as deep as your high value assets. Know your CIWS ranges as well, and don't bunch your ships within CIWS range of each other, as that will again result in over engagement against targets the CIWS cannot hit. CIWS is most effective against a missile coming straight at it, it will have a low pk against a missile flying past a ship as the tracking will throw of accuracy. It will also burn through your ammo quicker as ships will engage every target, even the ones they can't hit or have no business shooting at
Problem is that the Soviets in Sea Power don't have a "goalkeeper" frigate like the Type 22/23. The Krivaks have the navalised Osa which isn't ideal. The Neustrashimy class would fill the role perfectly with it's Kinzhal (navalised Tor, same system as on the Udaloy, just with half the number of VLS cells), but it isn't in the game and likely won't be added.
@@vuk3303 either the Sovremenny or the Udaloy can fill the role, the Udaloy can also focus on ASW from the goalkeeper position as well. So regardless of a lack of a designed fleet defence asset, the role can still be filled
@@kimchapman9198 it would have to be the Udaloy since the Sovremenny doesn't offer anything special compared to the Orel itself (Orel has the same Uragan (naval Buk) as the Sovremenny+the navalised Osa while the Udaloy offers the Kinzhal which is more likely than not the most capable system against PGMs, ARMs and cruise missiles during that era)
In Norman Polmar's reference book "Guide to the Soviet Navy" he mentions that back in the 80's, satellites spotted MiG-27s doing arresting gear tests in central Russia. Would have been cool to see those here. I've even fantasized about a navalized version of the MiG-31 Foxhound for fleet defense, and a navalized Su-24 Fencer for long range strike.
Between JBERS Elmendorf and Eielson AFB near Fairbnaks Alaska has one of the most defended airspace on the North American Continent. During this time period there were close to 400 fighters and bombers stationed at both. Right now it has the most stealth aircraft in one place on earth between both bases.
I have never not seen F-22’s flying around at JBER it’s a constant, I saw Eielson once and they got B-1B’s and F-16’s chillin out, Eielson is definitely the most defended airbase in North America I’d say cause it’s essentially smack down in the middle of the state, with multiple geographical futures like mountains and tundra between the ocean and it. Also JBER allegedly has F-35’s there I haven’t seen them but I’ve seen their F-22’s there. Edit: there’s also like 6 or so E-3G AWACS planes at JBER.
If you're going to fire missiles then immediately turn away (or have braindead AI that immediately RTB's because you salvoed both missiles and now it's out of ammo), the medium range IR missiles are actually better despite having slightly shorter range. The radar ones are semi-active, so they need the plane that fire them to fly towards the target to paint that target until impact or the missile loses locks. The medium range IR missiles won't have that limitation. That's why it took 12 fighters to kill 2 F-15's.
From what im seeing Orel carry's some of the Best ASMs in the game , The ship launched Counterpart to the Ones the backfires use . making it practically another kirov
When you launched missiles from the planes and told them to U-Turn - those missiles, being SARH (Semi-Active-Radar-Homing) they lost lock and went dumb. They need the planes radar to guide them in. Missiles are: 1) Fox 1 - SARH - (see above) 2) Fox 2 - IR guided - fire and forget. 3) Fox 3 - AMRAAMs - have their own internal radar and are fire and forget. Your aircraft have #'s 1 & 2. Not trying to be a dick - wanting you to succeed.
_"Also, I don't like the amount of micro that I have to do around here."_ That's one of the things I liked about Cold Waters; there was hardly any micro. It had greatly detailed naval vessels and aircraft, yet you didn't have to divvy up your attention across all of them at one time. It was just you and your sub. Granted, I would've liked to have seen an updated version of CW with multiple subs operating in different patrol quadrants, facing different types of engagements. But the amount of micro required in this carrier strike-group mission alone is INSANE.
But those are 2 vastly different games, why compare them? Cold Waters is just a sub simulator while Sea Power is a strategy about air, naval and (a bit of) land warfare.
@@boruta1034 Cold Waters is practically the foundation of Sea Power. In fact, many of the exact same ship, sub, and aircraft models are used, not to mention to the exact same descriptions of them. Comparing the two isn't as much of a stretch as you'd think. That said, they're very different in their approach to combat within the same timeframe of the Cold War. In this instance, Sea Power requires significantly more attention to be paid across significantly more assets SIMULTANEOUSLY in one engagement.
@@Kwajcold waters is a focused submarine Sim/Game…this is a Real time naval strategy, Jane’s Fleet command is the best basis for this game, you cannot compare cold waters with this, maybe graphically yes but not the entirety of Sea power. T-T
It seems like the NATO ships could immediately engage the incoming missiles because they needed a 8-10 second window of time to reload their Standard missiles and fire them off (which of course was way too late with the jamming). There should be an option to have these weapons at the ready so they can immediately engage tracks. Oddly enough, since the Spurance class DD only has Sea Sparrows for air defense in a launcher, it was better suited to defend itself than the dedicated AA cruisers in this specific attack.
@@Stealth17Gaming hey totally fair, I just thought you might want to know why all your missiles were missing! You can actually tell from the audio call out what type of missiles they are, that's what "fox 1" is
@@Stealth17Gaming I'd also note that missiles were not very reliable. During the Vietnam war, the AIM-9 Sidewinder( a heat-seeker) had a 25% hit rate and the AIM-7 Sparrow(semi-active radar guidance) had only a 10% hit rate. Improvements were made, but still had a lot of misses during the Gulf War.
I've yet to find a YT with early Sea Power access who knows what they're doing. They seem to play a lot of similar games without knowing how things work.
Jamming is effective on every radar of the ship irrespective of the type, but in the case of the guns, they do still have the capability of being manually controlled and to be targeted with some accuracy. I guess thats why the guns still work, but not that effectively, although i could be absolutely wrong about the fact, so please do correct me !! Edit: Gentlemen, I am just trying to explain why guns work even after jamming, because it's a basic weapon system used for centuries now, it needs very basic guidance. DO NOT GET STARTED ON WHO HAS BEST SUITE IN REAL LIFE AND DON'T START COMPARISON, people are already here trying to explain the difficulties of NATO units, YOU DON'T NEED TO !! IT'S A GAME, TAKE IT AS A GAME !!
The more I think about it, it seems like most NATO warships in this situation couldn't engage with their missiles until the last second not necessarily because they were being jammed, but because they were in the process of reloading their Standard missiles when they detected the Granits (a process that takes 8-10 seconds). So basically, the only weapon that was ready to meet the threat were the Sea Sparrows aboard the Spruance destroyer. If that's the case, there needs to be a way for those ships to have their missile launchers pre-loaded.
@@Arks1103 does not work like that buddy, its a simulator and you cannot go "thay both are equally good coz itz a game'" when every other system and parameter is different, every weapon systems is different, every ship and plane are different... cmon, what a lazy response
As an Alaskan: just try and feckin invade us, the trees speak moose up here and that's more dangerous than the aussie Outback Also, Kirov is a good looking ship and is my 3rd favorite in their fleet, next to Oscar and Typhoon subs
As an Aussie, I endorse this statement. Not only do we not have massive herbivores which can murder you, but we also don't have massive omnivores or carnivores which can murder you. I'm kinda happy with having things which only murder you if you step on them.
From my harpoon days, the Ticonderoga were my favourite ships. Now after watching all these Sea Power gameplays it is: 1. Orel 2. Kirov 3. Oscar Yeah I've become a P-700 Granit fanboy. OMG
Don't use the Radar version if you want to maneuver away from the target after firing, get the Heat Seeking one. The Semi-Radar Homing depends on the Aircraft Radar to have guidance.
Until the aircraft behavior with missiles is updated. I'm going to wait. I'm buying this game. Also with semi-active missiles The launch platform needs to face the target to guide it in. Ps love the video stealth
I dont remember exactly but the Orel was never built isnt? Also mig-23 as naval plane? I think that was cancelled alongside the Orel project. SO we can expect to have concepts and protoypes in the game as well?
Yea, but this is alternative reality and they need to give Soviet side some aircraft carriers (or Heavy Aircraft-Carrying Cruisers how they call them) to play with.
SS-N-14 (NATO code name Silex) are standoff ASW weapons with a VERY secondary ASuW role in that they can drop a torpedo. Think Soviet version of ASROC.
Not sure if you included them in the scenario or not but NATO/US would never send strike aircraft without at least a flight/squadron of fighter aircraft in escort/CAP patrols. Might be something to add to the scenario if you did not.
Semi Active radar missiles sparrow for example need a constant beam from the aircrafts radar to track and kill a target when you fired your missiles and turned away your missiles lost lock and went stupid the only active middle systems the us had up to the Aim120 we either heat seeker sidewinder or semi active sparrow also the Mig 23 has semi active or Russian sidewinder AA8
Surprised they haven’t fixed the bug where they RTB because they’ve fired their missiles, thus turning cold and failing to guide the missiles they just fired.
Regarding micro, Enigma seemed to have good results from just putting his planes on weapons free and vectoring them towards the enemy. I suppose changing the salvo amount will help improve probability of kill but just letting them determine their own target and maneuver seems to be the play.
I have been looking forward to this game for years and it's absolutely a day 1 purchase for me but I really wish they didn't include the Project 1160 carrier. It would be far easier for me to suspend my disbelief with the Kuznetsov-class being commissioned a few years earlier and the Su-33 entering service a few years earlier for alternate history rather than a ship which was never laid down along with a compliment of aircraft that never existed outside of drawings (P-42, P-42RLDN, Naval MiG-23).
Stealth, i've seen all your Sea Power videos but i strongly recommend you at least read the in game wiki to ger a grasp of what missiles actually do or how they work, im the first to cheer for you as you learn but i also recommend you spend some time reading about the game and weapons as its entertaining and you will improve greatly in the fields some people criticise, making you a better content creator
No intercept missiles launched at your anti-ship missiles because u need a lock to fire a SAM missile. Guns dont need a lock. So yeah, they can "see" your missiles on their radars, but they can't lock them up to get a launch authorization for the SAM system.
Radar directed gunnery generally does need a lock, the guns require accurate range and bearing data which a search radar cannot provide. Usually a tracking radar provides that info.
A6 Intruders are some seriously stout aircraft. I've seen holes in the wing of one A6 that you could almost fit a loveseat into. We dumped it off in Oman
Don't get 4 fighters, launch 2 at time, so you can engage targets more freely with less micromanagement. It's waaay easier to do. Watch the "Enigma" video on the Gibraltar mission for reference.
Love the concept for this mission but I'd have prefered it from the NATO perspective as this is exactly the 'doomsday scenario' that NATO was so scared of for a while. Having said that the AI probably would struggle to put the pressure on in quite the same way you can so it's still cool to see what the soviet assets are capable of
It wouldn't quite work in reverse because the most powerful asset, the carrier, doesn't actually launch planes yet. Once the AI knows how to do that it changes everything.
I don't think you have to micro air that much, set them on an intercept course, turn on their radars and give them weapons free. Trying to control direction of the aircraft while they're guiding missiles will throw the lock off.
I realize it is necessary for balance, but it is hilarious just how competent the Russian forces are in this game. And yes, I know we are talking in the 70s here, but really. The story of the F-15 happened back then too.
Something definitely bugged there with no missiles being launched from the ships. Even with jamming, the power of AEGIS radar should have picked up the incoming missiles at range, before they dropped before the radar horizon. And close in, jamming is much less effective.
Project 1153 Orel, is a odd choice to include in Sea Power for launch. There was enough weapon systems produced during the Cold War I’d have thought it would have been a better choice for a what if expansion.
Turn your plane's radars on, set them to weapons free, and let them engage by themselves instead of trying to micro them. The devs set up plane AI to not need babysitting - they will fire missiles and dogfight without your input as long as you have them set up correctly. Also, note that most planes of this era, especially soviet, can only fire and guide a single radar missile at a time. Consider the lesser-range IR missiles next time if you want to shotgun 2+ of them out against nato formations.
yeah pitting miss against Eagles is a bad play, they are pretty much doomed to fail. unfortunately eagles can shoot further and track better than the Russian aircraft so force of numbers is gonna be the only play. but with the eagle being able to carry anywhere from 4-6 sparrows it will be difficult. love this game though, I can't wait to get my hands on it
I love how Soviet doctrine allways has to work around a fictitional aircraft carrier and a lone cruiser doing all the work while russia would be invaded by the rest of the land and maritime fronts (with no nukes involved ofcourse)
the soviet doctrine is focus on army strom through west europe with tanks and tactical nuke, navy is there to protect icbm sub in their bunker sea, and attempt to kill air carrier group in one off, that's why they kept cancelling fix wing AC projects
Jamming must have been awesome. Weird that the only US ship to get off a missile was the Spruance. Point of order. Not NATO in the Alaskan sea. US 7th Fleet or 3rd Fleet. Maybe some Canucks :)
From what I can tell, the ships in Sea Power don't prepare their launchers until they spot hostile contacts, so they essentially try to crash-reload before firing. So considering they spotted the missiles at ~11-12 nmi due to being jammed and their launchers needed to reload (single arm takes 8 seconds, double arm needs 10), it was too late. But because the Spruance class (despite being an ASW DD) was the only one w/ the "point-defence" Sea Sparrow launcher which can engage at a moment's notice, it was more suited to defend itself in this attack than the dedicated AA ships.
@@adamtruong1759 Good analysis. This game is in my time and area of experience. It will be interesting playing the OHPs and Spruances as they mostly "targets" in my opinion. We used to say the OHP had the Helen Keller sonar and Ray Charles radar. Could be worse. Could be a Knox :(
I seem to have lost the mission file for this one. Sorry, can't put it on the workshop.
Semi active radar homing missiles need to be guided in by radar until they hit. So when U fire them and then turn away youll loose track and the missiles go dumb
Likewise the fighters can probably only track one at a time so when salvoing 2 they stop guiding the first
I thought that depended on the fighter@@Reilly-Maresca
@@forrestallison1879it does, F-14 can guide more than one at a time, some can even do onto separate targets, it just depends on the aircraft and radar
@@Nobody10115 it cant, with phoenixes it can but its because those are active, they only need TWS rather than the lock a SARH missile requires
i think the mig-31 can guide multiple SARH missiles but i know of no other plane that does that
@@heggle- I thought F-14 and F-4 could guide more than one AIM-7, but only on one target. Well I guess with SARH as long as you keep one plane as the target you could guide multiple as long as the track is uninterrupted.
On this episode of "The Deadliest Catch", the Time Bandit gets sunk by a Shipwreck missile. The Northwestern gets rammed by a Victor 3-class submarine and The Wizard has another injured Deckhand.
"Sig Hansen then manages to evade an Kh-22 Kitchen Missile attack through the succesful use of the 'Marlboro' Smokescreen tactic, ensuring the survival of the boat, and the precious cargo of Alaskan King Crab."
So you got curious about how the Kidd, Spruance, and the Ticonderoga were able to engage. The 5in/54 cal mk45 cannon was being directed by the Mark 86 Gun Fire Control System with the AN/SPQ-9A (Ticonderoga, kidd and Spruance) or the AN/SPG-60 (Spruance and Kidd).It uses a remote optical sighting system that uses a tv camera, with zoom, that can direct the weapon onto an illuminated target, like shining a flashlight connected to a machine gun.
The Perry has a Mark 92 fire control system, same thing.
Also I think the semi active radar guidance needs the aircraft radar to guide it in.
Yep.
I was about to make the same comment. Although I would replace "aircraft" with "launch platform", you can launch semi active radar guided missiles from all kinds of launchers: aircraft, ships, ground units, etc.
Yes, it's true. Additionally an E2-C could provide mid-course correction, allowing the launch platform to evade or RTB.
@@SturmGewehr1944x For some reason I don't see E2-C Hawkeyes providing mid-course corrections to Russian missiles fired at American planes. 🤔
(SCNR!)
@ahoannon5711 I doubt they would dope. I am just talking capabilities. Obviously an E2-C is American.
I hate talking to stupid people.
I think the issue you're running into is by salvoing the two radar guided missiles the aircraft RTBs immediately after and doesn't maintain the lock.
Seems to be an AI Behavior that needs adjusted
I think he manually ordered them back, even when they tried to commit and guide their missiles in
Also, all of them had weapons tight. He said at one point he didn't know why they weren't firing on their own. Not going to do that with weapons tight
The project 1153 (itself based on an early-1970s Project 1160, confusingly also named Orel, even 10,000 tonnes heavier) was cancelled in October 1978 as being too expensive, and a smaller Project 1143.5, more V/STOL-aircraft-oriented, was developed instead: in its initial stage, a version of 65,000 tons and 52 aircraft was proposed, but the actual Kuznetsov-class aircraft carriers are even smaller, about 55,000 tons.
Tug boat included?😁
@@fubaralakbar6800 Ramp-launched tugboats included. They don't fly very far though.
P-700 Granit was actually designed to be a submarine launched AShM, so the tubes in the Oscars were flooded before launch, and since the Kirov also has the same weapons onboard, it too has to flood its tube before launch, which is a bit odd for a surface ship, but IT'S RUSSIA, so anything is possible.
That is also why, upon launch, it jettisons a hydro cap. A hydro cap that it doesn't even need lol.
@@Train115I’m confused if the tubes are flooded doesn’t it need the cap?
@@hnhgnjj6078the cap is there because it’s flooded if I’m not wrong
@@banana6837 yeah that’s what I’m say he said that it doesn’t really need the cap
@@hnhgnjj6078 shit mb I miss read it cause im retarded
15:41 that missiles are fox-1, you need to illuminate target from the airframe.
The duality of Stealth playing the Kirov. Either its not enough missiles or way too many missiles.
Just looked through your recent videos view counts, you are killing it dude! ICBM and Frostpunk have been completely overshadowed by Sea Power. Keep up the great work!
Yeah channel is doing really well! Thanks for watching :)
Your fleet formation needs more flexibility.
Don't bring your ships closer together for "protection" it simply limits the engagement envelope of the fleet and they get beat quicker.
You also posted your light ships in a straight line, which means they will all be positioned to engage each incoming missile at roughly the same time, which results in over-engaging the target and potentially wasting missiles.
I understand why you did it, it's the "all weapons to the front" aspect of linear warfare. But you would actually be better placing your ships in a line parallel to the incoming missile flight, allowing each ship to engage in turn, meaning most missiles will be engaged in turn, so if a missile is destroyed it's not yet in the engagement envelope of the ships further back in the line, and they are available to engage missiles later on.
This means a box or arrow head formation (for width of defence) ahead of your high value assets, will be more effective, with overlapping engagement envelopes in depth.
It's also a good tactic to have a good air defence Frigate BEHIND your high value assets, that way it is protected from early penetration and can act as a "goalkeeper" for anything that penetrates as deep as your high value assets.
Know your CIWS ranges as well, and don't bunch your ships within CIWS range of each other, as that will again result in over engagement against targets the CIWS cannot hit. CIWS is most effective against a missile coming straight at it, it will have a low pk against a missile flying past a ship as the tracking will throw of accuracy. It will also burn through your ammo quicker as ships will engage every target, even the ones they can't hit or have no business shooting at
Problem is that the Soviets in Sea Power don't have a "goalkeeper" frigate like the Type 22/23. The Krivaks have the navalised Osa which isn't ideal. The Neustrashimy class would fill the role perfectly with it's Kinzhal (navalised Tor, same system as on the Udaloy, just with half the number of VLS cells), but it isn't in the game and likely won't be added.
@@vuk3303 either the Sovremenny or the Udaloy can fill the role, the Udaloy can also focus on ASW from the goalkeeper position as well. So regardless of a lack of a designed fleet defence asset, the role can still be filled
Udaloy's Kinzhal also has much better performance against sea-skimming targets.
@@kimchapman9198 it would have to be the Udaloy since the Sovremenny doesn't offer anything special compared to the Orel itself (Orel has the same Uragan (naval Buk) as the Sovremenny+the navalised Osa while the Udaloy offers the Kinzhal which is more likely than not the most capable system against PGMs, ARMs and cruise missiles during that era)
I am a 110% sure that I am going to become addicted to this game, Loved the vid!
In Norman Polmar's reference book "Guide to the Soviet Navy" he mentions that back in the 80's, satellites spotted MiG-27s doing arresting gear tests in central Russia. Would have been cool to see those here. I've even fantasized about a navalized version of the MiG-31 Foxhound for fleet defense, and a navalized Su-24 Fencer for long range strike.
Way too big🤭The Mig 29k though, Frightening😱
a navalized Su-24 Fencer is su-24k that got cancelled
The guns are firing because each of those ships have TV-camera turret controlled from the bridge that can be used to designate targets for the guns
Between JBERS Elmendorf and Eielson AFB near Fairbnaks Alaska has one of the most defended airspace on the North American Continent. During this time period there were close to 400 fighters and bombers stationed at both. Right now it has the most stealth aircraft in one place on earth between both bases.
I have never not seen F-22’s flying around at JBER it’s a constant, I saw Eielson once and they got B-1B’s and F-16’s chillin out, Eielson is definitely the most defended airbase in North America I’d say cause it’s essentially smack down in the middle of the state, with multiple geographical futures like mountains and tundra between the ocean and it.
Also JBER allegedly has F-35’s there I haven’t seen them but I’ve seen their F-22’s there.
Edit: there’s also like 6 or so E-3G AWACS planes at JBER.
Yay more Sea Power! Really love seeing how you've been improving as the series goes on. Keep at it!
If you're going to fire missiles then immediately turn away (or have braindead AI that immediately RTB's because you salvoed both missiles and now it's out of ammo), the medium range IR missiles are actually better despite having slightly shorter range. The radar ones are semi-active, so they need the plane that fire them to fly towards the target to paint that target until impact or the missile loses locks. The medium range IR missiles won't have that limitation. That's why it took 12 fighters to kill 2 F-15's.
From what im seeing Orel carry's some of the Best ASMs in the game , The ship launched Counterpart to the Ones the backfires use . making it practically another kirov
Ah, good ol' Elmendorf (also known as JBER). My first active duty station as USAF🥶
I live next to JBER never not seen F-22’s and E-3’s flying around there.
Also just started snowing today 21 degrees out :P
When you launched missiles from the planes and told them to U-Turn - those missiles, being SARH (Semi-Active-Radar-Homing) they lost lock and went dumb. They need the planes radar to guide them in.
Missiles are:
1) Fox 1 - SARH - (see above)
2) Fox 2 - IR guided - fire and forget.
3) Fox 3 - AMRAAMs - have their own internal radar and are fire and forget. Your aircraft have #'s 1 & 2.
Not trying to be a dick - wanting you to succeed.
There's no AMRAAMs in the game. AIM-54 are the only Fox 3 here.
_"Also, I don't like the amount of micro that I have to do around here."_
That's one of the things I liked about Cold Waters; there was hardly any micro. It had greatly detailed naval vessels and aircraft, yet you didn't have to divvy up your attention across all of them at one time. It was just you and your sub. Granted, I would've liked to have seen an updated version of CW with multiple subs operating in different patrol quadrants, facing different types of engagements. But the amount of micro required in this carrier strike-group mission alone is INSANE.
But those are 2 vastly different games, why compare them? Cold Waters is just a sub simulator while Sea Power is a strategy about air, naval and (a bit of) land warfare.
@@boruta1034 I get your point. However in this game you should be able to tell a pilot to engage and expect the AI to do it with some competency.
@@boruta1034 Cold Waters is practically the foundation of Sea Power. In fact, many of the exact same ship, sub, and aircraft models are used, not to mention to the exact same descriptions of them. Comparing the two isn't as much of a stretch as you'd think.
That said, they're very different in their approach to combat within the same timeframe of the Cold War. In this instance, Sea Power requires significantly more attention to be paid across significantly more assets SIMULTANEOUSLY in one engagement.
@@Kwajcold waters is a focused submarine Sim/Game…this is a Real time naval strategy, Jane’s Fleet command is the best basis for this game, you cannot compare cold waters with this, maybe graphically yes but not the entirety of Sea power. T-T
Guns might have been using optical tracking sensors
12:04 *that one random 747 is sweating bullets right about now*
It seems like the NATO ships could immediately engage the incoming missiles because they needed a 8-10 second window of time to reload their Standard missiles and fire them off (which of course was way too late with the jamming). There should be an option to have these weapons at the ready so they can immediately engage tracks.
Oddly enough, since the Spurance class DD only has Sea Sparrows for air defense in a launcher, it was better suited to defend itself than the dedicated AA cruisers in this specific attack.
You can't launch semi-active missiles and then turn your fighters away, that's not how it works
Sorry, not very familiar with those types of weapons.
@@Stealth17Gaming hey totally fair, I just thought you might want to know why all your missiles were missing! You can actually tell from the audio call out what type of missiles they are, that's what "fox 1" is
@@Stealth17Gaming I'd also note that missiles were not very reliable. During the Vietnam war, the AIM-9 Sidewinder( a heat-seeker) had a 25% hit rate and the AIM-7 Sparrow(semi-active radar guidance) had only a 10% hit rate. Improvements were made, but still had a lot of misses during the Gulf War.
I've yet to find a YT with early Sea Power access who knows what they're doing. They seem to play a lot of similar games without knowing how things work.
@@corvanphoenix Wolfpack345 is pretty good
Such a large scenario is not possible that micromanagement, far too much to keep track of, becomes too much that you forget to do
Jamming is effective on every radar of the ship irrespective of the type, but in the case of the guns, they do still have the capability of being manually controlled and to be targeted with some accuracy. I guess thats why the guns still work, but not that effectively, although i could be absolutely wrong about the fact, so please do correct me !!
Edit:
Gentlemen, I am just trying to explain why guns work even after jamming, because it's a basic weapon system used for centuries now, it needs very basic guidance. DO NOT GET STARTED ON WHO HAS BEST SUITE IN REAL LIFE AND DON'T START COMPARISON, people are already here trying to explain the difficulties of NATO units, YOU DON'T NEED TO !! IT'S A GAME, TAKE IT AS A GAME !!
The closer you are, the easier is to burn through that jamming effect, russia never had good jammers and NATO had amazing radars so you make the math
@@yester8039 pretty sure the russians were and definetly are good at electronic warfare
The more I think about it, it seems like most NATO warships in this situation couldn't engage with their missiles until the last second not necessarily because they were being jammed, but because they were in the process of reloading their Standard missiles when they detected the Granits (a process that takes 8-10 seconds). So basically, the only weapon that was ready to meet the threat were the Sea Sparrows aboard the Spruance destroyer.
If that's the case, there needs to be a way for those ships to have their missile launchers pre-loaded.
@@yester8039 Don't start comparing a game with real life now, in game, both have equally good jamming capabilities.
@@Arks1103 does not work like that buddy, its a simulator and you cannot go "thay both are equally good coz itz a game'" when every other system and parameter is different, every weapon systems is different, every ship and plane are different... cmon, what a lazy response
Man the Kirov is always a force to be reckoned with
In game, not in real life apparently
@@JL-cd4pm maintenance problem, less of a design issue
And as I made that comment and watch the episode I realize there are escorts. My mistake. Keep up the great work. Fun to watch.
As an Alaskan: just try and feckin invade us, the trees speak moose up here and that's more dangerous than the aussie Outback
Also, Kirov is a good looking ship and is my 3rd favorite in their fleet, next to Oscar and Typhoon subs
As an Aussie, I endorse this statement. Not only do we not have massive herbivores which can murder you, but we also don't have massive omnivores or carnivores which can murder you. I'm kinda happy with having things which only murder you if you step on them.
From my harpoon days, the Ticonderoga were my favourite ships. Now after watching all these Sea Power gameplays it is:
1. Orel
2. Kirov
3. Oscar
Yeah I've become a P-700 Granit fanboy. OMG
As a city boy Alaskan I completely endorse this…I would also prefer to get out of this hell hole called Anchorage, I must become bush rat.
Don't use the Radar version if you want to maneuver away from the target after firing, get the Heat Seeking one. The Semi-Radar Homing depends on the Aircraft Radar to have guidance.
Until the aircraft behavior with missiles is updated. I'm going to wait. I'm buying this game. Also with semi-active missiles The launch platform needs to face the target to guide it in.
Ps love the video stealth
To the three ships sunk this episode:
USS Antrim
USS Chandler
USS Valley Forge
= Vae Victis =
...But Briscoe still lives!
I dont remember exactly but the Orel was never built isnt?
Also mig-23 as naval plane? I think that was cancelled alongside the Orel project.
SO we can expect to have concepts and protoypes in the game as well?
Yea, but this is alternative reality and they need to give Soviet side some aircraft carriers (or Heavy Aircraft-Carrying Cruisers how they call them) to play with.
Correct, it was Soviet concept
Thanks for the clarification, I was having a real wtf moment seeing those MiGs.
The game is much better for the fantasy ships. Its not like the Orel is op... ok with the P-700 its op.
SS-N-14 (NATO code name Silex) are standoff ASW weapons with a VERY secondary ASuW role in that they can drop a torpedo. Think Soviet version of ASROC.
ASW is anti submarine AShM is anti ship :P
Also Silex was originally Anti-sub later on it was developed to be used as Anti-ship aswell.
I love this operations. Nice video and very interesting. One question, all the names of the weapons are the OTAN names or the USRR names?
They use the NATO designations
@@Stealth17Gaming Either the devs change them or mods will. Though best solution yet is dependent upon which side the player is playing!
Not sure if you included them in the scenario or not but NATO/US would never send strike aircraft without at least a flight/squadron of fighter aircraft in escort/CAP patrols. Might be something to add to the scenario if you did not.
Thanks for another amazing video!!
I had prayed for an orel carrier video, it has been answered by the GOAT
Soviets: We are not invading. We sold you this land. This is a Special Military Recall Operation.
USA: “we have receipt, come and take it.”
Semi Active radar missiles sparrow for example need a constant beam from the aircrafts radar to track and kill a target when you fired your missiles and turned away your missiles lost lock and went stupid the only active middle systems the us had up to the Aim120 we either heat seeker sidewinder or semi active sparrow also the Mig 23 has semi active or Russian sidewinder AA8
Surprised they haven’t fixed the bug where they RTB because they’ve fired their missiles, thus turning cold and failing to guide the missiles they just fired.
I don’t think he understands the concept of a fox 1
Regarding micro, Enigma seemed to have good results from just putting his planes on weapons free and vectoring them towards the enemy. I suppose changing the salvo amount will help improve probability of kill but just letting them determine their own target and maneuver seems to be the play.
It’s funny cause Arctic Thunder is an Airshow here at JBER. (Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson)
I’ve got too many photos of this year’s. .-.
I have been looking forward to this game for years and it's absolutely a day 1 purchase for me but I really wish they didn't include the Project 1160 carrier. It would be far easier for me to suspend my disbelief with the Kuznetsov-class being commissioned a few years earlier and the Su-33 entering service a few years earlier for alternate history rather than a ship which was never laid down along with a compliment of aircraft that never existed outside of drawings (P-42, P-42RLDN, Naval MiG-23).
Stealth, i've seen all your Sea Power videos but i strongly recommend you at least read the in game wiki to ger a grasp of what missiles actually do or how they work, im the first to cheer for you as you learn but i also recommend you spend some time reading about the game and weapons as its entertaining and you will improve greatly in the fields some people criticise, making you a better content creator
Real.
28:10 "dead kidd"
-Stealth17 2024
No intercept missiles launched at your anti-ship missiles because u need a lock to fire a SAM missile. Guns dont need a lock. So yeah, they can "see" your missiles on their radars, but they can't lock them up to get a launch authorization for the SAM system.
Radar directed gunnery generally does need a lock, the guns require accurate range and bearing data which a search radar cannot provide. Usually a tracking radar provides that info.
Also the MK51 NGFS has an optical search and targeting system that can be used as a lock
A6 Intruders are some seriously stout aircraft. I've seen holes in the wing of one A6 that you could almost fit a loveseat into. We dumped it off in Oman
Don't get 4 fighters, launch 2 at time, so you can engage targets more freely with less micromanagement. It's waaay easier to do. Watch the "Enigma" video on the Gibraltar mission for reference.
Awesome video s17g
Love the concept for this mission but I'd have prefered it from the NATO perspective as this is exactly the 'doomsday scenario' that NATO was so scared of for a while. Having said that the AI probably would struggle to put the pressure on in quite the same way you can so it's still cool to see what the soviet assets are capable of
It wouldn't quite work in reverse because the most powerful asset, the carrier, doesn't actually launch planes yet. Once the AI knows how to do that it changes everything.
May not have fired due to jamming. In reality they would have burned though the jamming. Guns have electro-optical and can engage.
I wonder if there are gonna be the projected Su-27 naval versions or Su-33s and Mig-29ks for the Orel eventually
Maybe in future updates, if not then modders will more then likely change that.
I don't think you have to micro air that much, set them on an intercept course, turn on their radars and give them weapons free. Trying to control direction of the aircraft while they're guiding missiles will throw the lock off.
Once you launched your shipwrecks , i dont think emcon mattered too much
That's a lot of ships to manage!
I realize it is necessary for balance, but it is hilarious just how competent the Russian forces are in this game. And yes, I know we are talking in the 70s here, but really. The story of the F-15 happened back then too.
the Orel is capable of firing the same, very sizable missiles as the kirov, it carries 4 less though.
Something definitely bugged there with no missiles being launched from the ships. Even with jamming, the power of AEGIS radar should have picked up the incoming missiles at range, before they dropped before the radar horizon. And close in, jamming is much less effective.
SAR missiles you need to keep the radar in gimbal limits or you will loose lock and missile tracking
Project 1153 Orel, is a odd choice to include in Sea Power for launch. There was enough weapon systems produced during the Cold War I’d have thought it would have been a better choice for a what if expansion.
2:02 "Sharp sticks!" 😅
Turn your plane's radars on, set them to weapons free, and let them engage by themselves instead of trying to micro them. The devs set up plane AI to not need babysitting - they will fire missiles and dogfight without your input as long as you have them set up correctly.
Also, note that most planes of this era, especially soviet, can only fire and guide a single radar missile at a time. Consider the lesser-range IR missiles next time if you want to shotgun 2+ of them out against nato formations.
Sea Power got the people saying la la la la la 🥳
The US has a radar that watches the entire pacific ocean by it self.
That fighter engagement didn't go too well, USA pilots must have felt like Tom Cruise in Top Gun.
I can't wait until the 12th... They need to release this already.
28:02 visual + another wave band for artillery targeting systems
I hope they add more types of extreme weather/times of year, and sea ice
yeah pitting miss against Eagles is a bad play, they are pretty much doomed to fail. unfortunately eagles can shoot further and track better than the Russian aircraft so force of numbers is gonna be the only play. but with the eagle being able to carry anywhere from 4-6 sparrows it will be difficult. love this game though, I can't wait to get my hands on it
Once you can do custom missions I’d love to see this with the PLA instead of the soviets to do a mock “fallout” invasion of anchorage
This IS a custom mission. There's no PLAN yet atm
@@Stealth17Gaming ah oops
Looks interesting but I hope the USN has more to offer. Destroying one of only 2 Tico's available in June 85 is a major blow to the USN already.
Maybe the guns were working on the MK1 Eyeball
Stealth, I love you
is that a good idea i hear the us have some new power amour
R60 with 5 mile range is crazy
Alaska is definably not a trap.
This looks alot like the dotmod for cold waters, but now you can control a fleet
Dot is a developer of this game.
Most of your flights are weapons tight. Doesn't that mean that they need visual confirmation of the target or a direct (from you) launch command?
It looks like the A6s were hit, but they didn't take any damage
I think next time just hit weapons free and just watch instead of micro managing every missle
Wonder how much this engine can handle. Wonder how many planes and ships before it starts to bog down. xD
can you do a video with the kitty hawk carrier in the future?
Sure
@@Stealth17Gaming thanks
So is this game like the 1985 cold waters campaign mixed with war on the sea?
The fact that you didn't title this video 'Operation: Anchorage' has left me immeasurably disappointed, and my day ruined.
lol .. the cold war is hot. Anything in the air or the sea is a hostile target. TOTAL WAR
I love how Soviet doctrine allways has to work around a fictitional aircraft carrier and a lone cruiser doing all the work while russia would be invaded by the rest of the land and maritime fronts (with no nukes involved ofcourse)
Lol did the russians shit in ur bed or something to get u that pissed off 🤣
the soviet doctrine is focus on army strom through west europe with tanks and tactical nuke, navy is there to protect icbm sub in their bunker sea, and attempt to kill air carrier group in one off, that's why they kept cancelling fix wing AC projects
Jamming must have been awesome. Weird that the only US ship to get off a missile was the Spruance.
Point of order. Not NATO in the Alaskan sea. US 7th Fleet or 3rd Fleet. Maybe some Canucks :)
From what I can tell, the ships in Sea Power don't prepare their launchers until they spot hostile contacts, so they essentially try to crash-reload before firing. So considering they spotted the missiles at ~11-12 nmi due to being jammed and their launchers needed to reload (single arm takes 8 seconds, double arm needs 10), it was too late.
But because the Spruance class (despite being an ASW DD) was the only one w/ the "point-defence" Sea Sparrow launcher which can engage at a moment's notice, it was more suited to defend itself in this attack than the dedicated AA ships.
@@adamtruong1759 Good analysis. This game is in my time and area of experience. It will be interesting playing the OHPs and Spruances as they mostly "targets" in my opinion. We used to say the OHP had the Helen Keller sonar and Ray Charles radar. Could be worse. Could be a Knox :(
Forgot Aim54 was the only active radar system in service until Aim 120
Are we going to get tactical nuclear weapons (or even strategic ones) in some kind of scenarios or campaigns?
Those don't exist in the game
"Places 2BA6E2C"
Just curious what type of aircraft is the Russia AEW?
great
here's the real question can you jam your own aircraft and munitions also the micro managing is terrible
Are there any USCG ships in? They’d play a role in this scenario with their albeit limited combat power
No there aren't any sadly.
Maybe they’ll get added in 🤞🏻
@ the planes and micro - why not turn them all weapons free once they are in a melee...
How many granits does it take to shipwreck a nimitz carrier?
3 did in some other mission.
I've seen one do it in a Wolfpack video.