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Excellent video. Time and temperature are the key to baked bread meeting our expectations. Both time and temperature will affect the final taste of the dough regardless of the recipe type used. Had these three breads been allowed to rise to the same level, a longer time for the cold dough, and a shorter time for the very warm dough, their final appearance would have been more similar, but the taste noticeably different. While a colder dough can be fermented for longer to reach a proper rise, it will taste different than either a dough that rises in the optimum temperature range, or one that had a faster rise from being too warm and over proofed a good bit as shown in this video. When dough ferments, two events affect flavor. The yeast, a fungus, produces lactose or dairy type flavor note. The bacteria present in the flour produces sour notes. Temperature management of all ingredients and components are important to ensure the dough achieves your desired result. When dough is cold and takes longer to rise, the yeast slows down a lot, repressing the dairy flavor notes. which causes the rising to be slow. However, the colder temperature of the dough does not slow down the bacterial action nearly as much, so the colder dough becomes more tangy or sour. When the yeast finally warms up enough in colder dough to rise in earnest, the dairy notes won't be able to catch up to balance the abundant sour bacterial flavors that have been happening all along and will still be happening until the bake, regardless of the cooler temperature. This results in a more tangy tasting bread. Nothing wrong with it, if that's your goal. That's why many folks like to make sourdough bread. Dough that is too warm and rises rapidly simply doesn't have enough time to give the bread many dairy or sour flavors, so it comes out bland. Totally edible and usable, but it will be bland. If spreads or toppings are going to be used, then it may not be an issue as they will bring flavor, but on it's own, it will be bland. Dough that rises around that 25C/77F range, will have a nice balance of both kinds of flavor notes. That's what most would call a good, well flavored bread. Regardless of the temperature of the dough, it's important to bake it when it looks ready, and not after a particular set duration of time. That will give you the best looking final bake, though the flavor will be impacted based on the total rise and fermentation time needed to get the right looking bread.
Thank you so much for these insights! Now I understand the whole thing about temperature and the magic word "fermentation" a lot better... Coming from a "Pizza Background": So that's why often Pizzaiolos do a Cold Fermentation(for a more tangy note)?(and also because of the yeast and air bubbles in the dough and some other benefits...) All in all you will get a different Pizza when you do a warm instead of cold fermentation, arent you?
@@peterkeffer6609 Yes, the final flavor of the bread or pizza dough will depend on how it is fermented. When I need to make dough in a hurry, often for a last minute pizzas, I double the yeast called for in the recipe, and make the dough with warmer water and a bit more yeast. To offset the lack of proper fermentation flavor since the dough will be ready to use in 2-3 hours, I often substitute a light flavored lager or pilsner beer for the water in the recipe. That brings some malty and slight hoppy flavor to the dough. The minimal alcohol doesn't affect the dough, and vaporizes during the baking, leaving behind the flavor. I use an inexpensive mild beer, usually a light beer, and warm it to about 35C/95F and sub it for the water called for in the recipe. It works pretty well at bringing some flavor to the fast rise dough party instead of the pizza dough being bland. Works well for making a loaf of bread in a hurry to add some flavor, too.
I am having difficulty in a tropical climate without confidence in what I am trying to do. I buy bulk flour unsure of what I am getting. No controlled temp, likely 90 deg and every loaf is an experiment. I adopted a sweet flavor for my local friends, add essential wheat gluten. It is difficult to make bread here to make a nice bread. I learned to respect our bakers . Thank you for your scientific approach. I cook as a hobby and not a buisness. BTW my bread is like my mother made for me many years ago.
Well, now I know why it takes so long to get my dough to rise. It's too cold in my kitchen. Thanks a bunch for taking the time to educate noobs like me :-) I've only baked bread twice in my life, both of those times were recently. Lookig forwards to getting it right! Because homemade bread is so incredibly tasty! Alright...have a great day!
I've been getting around with my cookign skills for past 2 years, but for some reason baking was always failing me. The way you construct and explain things is a godsend, since you account for all the differences and making it not as riggid as other recipe videos that pretty much just say "yeah, mix it all and get results".
Since watching your videos i become more aware of the circumstances like temperature. My kitchen was 16 degrees Celsius the other day. I left my rolls to proof for 2,5 hours before i thought they were ready to go into the oven. I am very grateful for your channel.
Thanks for the video. Currently 17C days here. I put the oven on low for 5mins and then put a pan of boiling water in the bottom. This keeps the oven warm and humid while the dough autolyses and ferments. Then into a loaf tin and the fridge for a cold proof. Fresh bread first thing tomorrow. 😊
Because, as a Welshman,I cannot find any edible bread here in Belarus, I have really got into making my own bread here! And this video is absolutely replicating my own observations! Really enjoyed watching you back up my own assesment! 👍👍
I didn't pay attention to temperature control until I started watching your videos. You put much more importance on it than other youtube bakers. I do like checking where my dough temperature is so I know whether to expect it to ferment at the same rate as your recipe or to adjust the time longer or shorter.
This was excellent. As usual. Knowing that everyone's kitchen is different and that temperature really is an ingredient is so important. Perhaps you could do a video on how baking temperature affects the bread next? That would be interesting to see.
I work in a commercial bakery (Nabisco) and make the dough for Premium Crackers. Your videos have helped me understand the dough making and proofing process. Thank you.
I just started getting into bread making and started out just using hot water from the tap at 120 degrees f. When the dough rose very high, I thought I was doing it right. Since I started following your techniques a few weeks ago, I now use 75 degree water with the preferment and dough. Loaf comes out beautiful. Thanks.
i literally never thought about this. I learned in school to use body temp and my family believes the same bec less or more and you kill yeast. But now i know why my breads rise so much and so fast! and sometimes it never rises! Also i usually only proof once, so i'm gonna try folding and doing it multiple times to test it out!
I live in a tropical country so it's quite warm all year round and the definite best thing for me to do when mixing is to take some chilled water or milk. It really does help with controlling the fermentation rather than how some online recipes ask to bloom the yeast in microwaved water or milk. Recipes are always guidelines for sure but the best teacher is definitely experience since environment, climate, ingredients and temperature will all affect your final product. I personally love doing dinner rolls and making it into miniature loaves, they make nice mini sandwiches.
When making pizza dough I always ferment it in the fridge over a couple of days, that way it has loads of flavour and cooks nice and crispy. For a loaf I generally keep it slightly below optimal temperature over about 6 hours which produces really flavourful bread which is great for sandwiches. As you pointed out fermenting too fast gives a bland bread that is no better than store bought.
I've never really thought too much about the fermentation temperature. I've always had pretty good results. But, I do keep the thermostat for my home set at 75F (26C) so I guess that's why my breads turn out ok, but I usually let them ferment for a little longer. It makes sense now that I know my kitchen is at the low end of the temperature where yeast is happiest. Thank you for another great and informative video!
@@veyyazel5042 I keep my house thermostat set on 75 degrees Fahrenheit (23.89 degrees Centigrade) I incorrectly converted temperature to Centigrade when I posted my comment. It's been a while since I've baked bread, but I think I let it rise for roughly four hours, maybe a little more or less. I just keep an eye on it. I usually bake bread in the winter not summer to avoid heating up my kitchen.
Fantastic comparison - as my home is generally cooler (cold granite countertop and I don't use the heater much), I do take care and manage my water/dough temperature (only because of watching your videos, of course). I sure hope I can control the dough temperature once summer arrives. As always, many thank for sharing your expertise, baking experiences and this comparison video. 69.7K - whoo hoo! 🎉🎉🎉 70K is just around the corner. Everyone, don't forget to share your bakes on your social media channels and share how ChainBaker's YT Channel has helped your baking skills with your "baking buddies". I know his videos have improved and expanded my baking skills exponentially!! Go "Team ChainBaker" 📣📣📣
Summer + a granite surface should be best mates ;) Woo hoo and we're already past 70! I can't believe how well it's going. Hopefully it does not stop haha 😁 Huge thanks to you for the kind support as ever, Lan! :)
Fascinating. I've been reading up about proofing boxes. Just an enclosed box where you put your bowl with dough and a bowl of steaming water. This is meant to help you get a good temp in colder climates🤞. Everywhere in my house is a lovely 17℃.
I do this in my microwave during the winter. A cup of water microwaved 2mins at 1000w to get it hot and steaming and leaving the dough in there with it. Works like a charm!
OK, I have to admit I was a little skeptical when you were always taking and adjusting the dough's temperature in previous videos. Now I get it. Thank you for future better bread.
Even though I haven’t been baking that long I feel like I understand so much since I’ve been watching these videos. I know enough to start adjusting recipes instead of blindly following them.
For the little baking I do. I have found that if two temperatures are used it is better to be warm at the start and cool at the end because it makes it easier to catch the ideal amount of rise. If starting cool and finishing too warm, it is fermenting very fast at the end and easy to look away for 15-20 minutes and get a dry over-inflated crumb, especially if the oven needs extra time to preheat. (Maybe forgot to turn it on early enough.) My kitchen is very cool most of the year, 10c for 7 months, and 30-35c for 3 months. So I alternate between a warming cabinet/box, the counter and the refrigerator. I built the box for germinating seeds but that is only a for a few weeks each year, it has good temperature control.
Dough temperature control is still a little bit the aerobatics to me, but because of your easy digestible information I will be there! Cheers, Charlie 🙏🏻🍀🍞🥖
So as a new bread maker, I was excited about putting my sourdough in my warm oven (85F+) and having it ferment quicker. I thought I’d cracked some kind of code 😂. But now I know why my bread would end up flatter and without the characteristic sour tang of sourdough bread. Lesson learned 👍
I have had mini mini bad loves, and after seeing your comparison, I have a better understanding of my temperature. Hopefully I will be able to make a proper love someday.
Recently I've become a fan of doing my scald the day before and letting it sit overnight. I always take it out and let it warm up before I mix it into a dough. I've also done a lot of work with preferments and i like the deep flavors you get. But even with that, you have to let them warm up or you don't get volume.
So glad I found this channel yesterday. I love precision. And your directions are so precise and backed up with reasoning and even demonstration. Love it.
I really appreciate this video. This is the second video of yours I've watched and both have pointed out what I've been doing wrong by trying to change my recipes over time. The average temperature in my house in Thailand is 30c. No air conditioning. I make quick bread using vitamin C for just one rising. This gave me a good loaf. After putting the dough in the tins I used to put them in a loose plastic bag to rise. I got good texture and crust. I then got impatient and put the tins uncovered in a foam box, uncovered, with a bottle of hot water!!! You've shown me my mistake. The loaves rose quickly, but even started to collapse when giving them a spray with water before putting them in the oven. The result was a soft crust tasteless loaf. Thanks for showing me where I've been going wrong with temperature and using lard. Both good advice. I'll come back to you next week when I bake again. Thanks again.
*Most excellent Charlie!* 🥨 Temperature definitely matter. I always use room temperature water to allow the yeast to work at its own pace, and not force fermentation faster than required.
Your videos are very helpful, I just started making bread for 2 months. and using cold and warm temperature milk vs the weather temperature is really matters esp with the taste of the bread & how it ferment. Thanksss so much for your vids
I've been a bit lax on temperature control, which may explain why I've done better when using preferments and poolish. My eyes are wide open now though. Another great video.
Wonderful as always. I LOVE the scientific approach. You taught me how to make bread. I'm making about 2 loaves a week and they always come out great! Thank you so much
2 года назад+1
Our ambient temperature is usually between 80F and 100F. Average is somewhere in the middle. I've learned to really cool down the water or sometimes the whole dough, because it's really easy to overheat. It's funny, because a lot of recipes account for cooler weather by telling you to use the oven with a light, or some warm water in a box to proof. I actually need to account for the opposite!
I never paid attention to temperature until I started to watch your videos... now Im beginning to pay a lot more attention to it and definitely vary the fermentation time depending on how warm it is and not what it says in the recipe...
I generally use room-temperature (low 70s F) water and let the dough rise in the oven with the light on. I'm still very much a dilettante when it comes to baking, but that approach has produced adequate bread for me. I'll occasionally warm the water up if I want to shorten the proofing time. I keep my flour in the refrigerator, so it's always cold.
Thanks for this... The proper amount of salt is all the world of difference with flavor. But, I’ve never noticed how it affected the texture of the bread. A little thing that I learned by studying the difference between refined industrial (table) salt and whole (raw) unrefined salt is that the flavor is better and it does not raise health issues, or cause high blood pressure as refined table salt will. I like to think of it as a difference between eating refined white sugar versus getting your sugar from a piece of fruit. It’s much better than to have the straight industrialized sodium that most people eat. The naturally occurring minerals, although trace amounts will over time be exactly the right amount that your body needs when it’s used regularly. The best one, in my opinion is Redmond’s Real Salt, mined in the USA. However, I will take that, pink Himalayan or Celtic Gray sea salt over any refined salt. You can use these whole salts for anything you consume.
Awesome explaination mate... Mine always on the high temp since i lived at tropical country. Lowest temp ive ever made is 29 deg, with short time of fermentation. If i make a long time of fermentation it will reach 30-31 deg dough.
I wish you adjusted the time to the dough temps as not to under or over proof. I was a baker in the Navy and we had a formula for dough temps. The formula included the flour temp and a friction factor from the mixer. We would adjust the water temp from there. I really like your videos btw.
I've been following a routine and not paying attention to the dough temp. But so far I've only been making bread this winter. Summer is coming and I believe I will have to make some changes. I'll have to check out your videos on the subject.
Fantastic instructive video as always. Very practical. Please consider either adding the temperature readings over the video, or reading the thermometer reading as the numbers are not easily seen with this instrument due to its size and light reflection. Thank you.
i keep my house pretty cool. about 18°C. so I have to let my dough rise quite a bit longer than usual. I'm going to do some experiments and see how long. Thanks for the info Charlie.
Awesome video. I just love this kind of empirical evidence that show what actually happens. I have an idea to propose which I was about to test myself but might be cool to see you do it: test the difference between bread flour versus all purpose with added wheat gluten. I heard that you can add 1 1/2 teaspoon of wheat gluten into a cup of all purpose (minus 1 1/2 teaspoons) to make it act like a bread flour, but I'm skeptical. Anyways cheers!
Love those Videos. So much detail. So much to learn from. My only issue is that i can't eat and enjoy all of it by myself before it goes stale. Also, Chainbaker, is there a reason for you to bake everything on the Grill Setting on your oven? Is it because it is the only fan-less option? Would you suggest to use a "no-fan, top+bottom heat" option if available? Does it matter as long as the fan is off? Why is fan off even important?
My oven only has the top heating element. I would always suggest using both. Fan vs no fan depends on the bread being baked. I normally use the fan for lower temperature bakes. As a general rule there should be a 10% temperature adjustment when switching from one method to the other. Example: 180C no fan = 160C fan ON! :)
I like your point about recipes. Food is a relationship. It sounds cheesy but that’s really helped me observe and better interact with produce. Respecting the natural process of things is no more prevalent than making bread - and it’s only been through the sharing of your knowledge and passion that I’ve discovered this. ☺️🙏🏻 Bread making is the most intimate tactile relationship between human and food. Hummmmmm 🧘🏻♂️🧘🏻♂️🧘🏻♂️ 😂😂😂
I started Saturday morning with 3 doughs; Pancake batter, big a pizza, and cuban poolish. The cuban bread dough got put in the fridge to slow it down. I’ve not had time to make the pulled pork. So I’ll get to experience a slowed down fermentation.
Thank you or posting this. I was in the process of making a couple loaves of sandwich bread and made sure to temp the dough. My kitchen is 62°F so I used the oven (and an IR gun) as a proofing box. The bread is cooling so I haven't a clue if it made a difference. I'm betting it did.
finally the video I've been waiting for :) tbh I didn't pay too much attention to temp control, although watching your videos for a while now I know how much you stressed it's importance. It's just that I've never felt convinced to why is it important. I kinda knew that fermentation develops flavor but I've always been looking at fermentation as the time to get yeast up and running, so if bread rising faster, it means yeast got active quicker. So that video sort of opened my eyes to what I already know :) I guess I'll pay more attention to temperature control from now on. BONUS QUESTION: if you're making a warmer bread so it is fermenting quicker, do you think you could compensate the lack of flavor and character by doing a poolish a day before?
@@ChainBaker Fun story: I recently was in hurry when baking bread for my friend, and I prepared preferment the day before with 2g of fresh yeast per 500g of flour, then the day after when I mixed everything and put it for bench rest I realized I forgot to add the rest of the yeast :D I thought I will need to throw it into trash but I gave it a chance and let it rise as long as I could (final fermentation for 2-3h) and it baked beautifully! Much better oven spring than I usually get and from the photo she sent me it was extremely bubbly inside, despite being 60% hydration only. She told it was very good but I'd lave to check it for myself.. :) Is it because the gases from longer fermentation expand more in the oven? Or there is another reason for that?
Usually, dough products lost softness overtime not because they lose water, but the starches inside them crystallize. You can reverse that process (at certain levels, of course) by reheating. In case of bakeries, they should be using something that prevents starch molecules to form crystals, IMHO
Commercial bread most certainly only stays fresh because all kinds of nasty additives. Small bakery breads may contain fats, eggs, perhaps some lecithin, or even use a improver like yudane or tangzhong.
Though I rarely bake bread these days (had to quit gluten), I've always fed my dough lukewarm water (like you'd expect with fresh milk), except for hot days where I'd simply incorporate room temperature water. I've never had to leave dough unattended, so I've never had to put it in the cool room or call the babysitter. But if it does rise too fast I'd simply work it down again, though this activates more gluten and might be undesirable in some recipes. And if the weather is a little too cold and the dough isn't rising fast enough, I'd use a second bowl of warm water beneath to act as a heater (no direct contact), or put it near a hot stove, or even warm the oven a bit then keep the dough in there after switching the oven off. I like reusing heat energy, so if I'm steaming something in a pot I'd place a casserole dish on the lid not only to trap the steam but also to heat up the casserole dish and toast grains in it. However, some recipes do better with grains toasted faster under higher temperatures.
Awesome video, thanks for sharing, I use cold water around 13c and egg from the fridge and use a mixer while every done mixing its already warm because of my kitchen temperature around 32 to 35c and the dough will be ready for baking in 30 to 45min of rest after shaping.
@@mytech6779 I live in Malaysia and it's hot all day and managed to do delicious breads and buns, one thing I wish to do that I can't is croissant but I will try it like early when it's the coldest.
The only temperature control that I have' is that I always take water direct form the tap. Here in Denmark our drinking water doesn't go through a water treatment process and is pure ground water. The temperature is therefore always constant at 8C. However, I've never measured the dough temperature during bread making. I'm now going to do so. Thanks👍
Amazing! Since all I do is cold fermentation I still like the 24C. When the dough is cold like 19C, that's good for long fridge fermentation if you want the enzymes to eat the starch but don't want much yeast activity. I found that works great when doing Detroit Pizza. After stretching I prefer to leave it for a few hours to rise as there is a lot of food for the yeast but the complex flavors from 36 hours come through. Obviously I use a pre ferment too :) Gives a better crumb and tastes great. Almost 100K bro :)
Woah nice info. Is 19C the limit for dough undergo long fridge fermentation? My final dough temperature usually around 25°C after done mixing and i put it straight to fridge for long fermentation
@@AJAA2916 Well if you go right into the fridge, I suggest 24C considering you are using strong flour, You cannot let it in the fridge for more then 36 to 48 hours, then you pull it out and let it warm up to room temp and the final rise before you put it in the oven. I am not a bread guy, I am a pizza guy but its similar. Think of it like this, if you are doing fridge fermentation from my findings 24C dough temp and room temp is ideal for the yeast. That being said, if you bring the dough down to 19C it wont rise much in the fridge but that is good for Detroit style pizza where you want to leave the dough rest while you stretch but you don't want it to rise a lot until the final proofing. So depending on what your purpose is there are different methods. But if you are doing bread and doing long fermentation just remember, high protein flour, 24C dough temp and room temp. 1 hour rest at room temp 24C if its not a preferment and no more then 40 min rest at 24C then into the fridge. I suggest 20 minutes rest if its a preferment. Depending on the protein of your flour, the lower it is the less time in the fridge, so 24 - 48 hours for best results. I see Charlie doing many folds and leaving the dough at room temp for a few hours but he only goes in the fridge for bulk fermentation for no more then 18 hours because the dough has already taken a beating and any longer it would over proof in the fridge. 24 hours would be a 12.5% protein, 36 hours 13.5% protein and 48 hours 14% or more. There are some flours that have Manitoba flour that are over 15% protein, they can take even up to 72 hours. Also the W factor changes with higher protein. Higher protein is also more water absorption from the flour When in the fridge the yeast is active but very little. the colder your dough the less time it has to activate, but the enzymes still do their work as cold doesn't affect them but they can over proof your dough because they keep eating the starch so if left to long the dough will become a blob and fall apart. so its all about experimenting and knowing what you want out of your dough. I do preferments and I want maximum time in the fridge for flavor before I cook the pizza. I don't recommend doing your dough at 19C or lower unless you have a specific purpose. I hope that answers your question.
I was surprised at how badly the 20c dough did, how long was the bulk fermentation and final proving in the video. As you say, we have to learn our environment, my house is kept on the cool side so I have to start with warmer water to hit my final dough temp, and I also have a home-made fermentation box which I can keep in the mid to high 20s. Thanks for the great visual comparison videos.
First of all - Thank you for your awesome videos. Your videos are of extremely high quality, I love your seamless time-lapses and how you make it look easy to make dough. I'm coming from a Pizza Background and want to understand the WHY - but nearly all "Pizzaiolo" videos lack this type of information - you came to the rescue! Yesterday, I learned more in 2 hours about dough and baking watching your videos than with dozens of hours watching Pizzaiolos! Question: Many Pizzaiolos don't want to get over 24°C(especially with a professional mixer) - their argument is, that the Gluten structure gets weakened/destroyed(or something close to this). Is there anything valid about this? If not and it's only about the speed of fermentation: Most of those people are cold-fermenting anyway, so why this is so important? Is there such a huge difference between 24°C and 28°C if you put it into the fridge right after kneading(with a mixer)?
I would say it has not that much to do with the mixing itself, but rather the fermentation. 24C is a good temperature for cold bulk fermentation. Anything over that can lead to over fermentation whilst it is in the fridge and that in turn will affect the gluten greatly. If your dough becomes too warm during mixing you can pop it in the fridge and then give it a couple of folds in 45 minute intervals the help it cool down sooner.
I'm new to making my own breads (around a year now) but I've had luck with proofing in my oven with just the light on (got that idea from John Kirkwood). If that's not enough to overcome my cold kitchen I point a tiny space heater in the general direction of the oven. Around 26 to 29c seems to work best for my humid climate. I only regulate the temp of the wet ingredients, maybe it's time to do the bowl and the dry ingredients too.
IMPORTANT QUESTION: do we have to pay attention to dough temperature control during the kneading process (24-26 degrees), when we have a cold bulk fermentation in the fridge overnight? because its going to the fridge anyway and drop temperature rapidly. thank you in advance, I appreciate all your work and efforts.
One variable that is hard to control is altitude. I live at sea level, my in laws live at 2900 meters near the top of a mountain. Apparently the altitude makes it impossible to bake bread in a conventional way. I haven't personally baked there yet but I'm definitely planning on making a few styles of bread on my next trip to their house. (A tortilla, English muffin, and just a basic white loaf are my planed breads)
Man, I've been so busy with all the other variables that temperature really hasn't been on the top of my list. I must be lucky because I'm making some pretty wicked sourdough bread without really paying attention. I left the dough ferment in my oven with the oven light on. If I had to guess I would say it's probably around 78 to 85°. My bulk ferment is usually 3 hours and it doubles plus maybe 20%. I use filtered water at room temperature
I made bread once and I didn't know what I did wrong. I followed everything as it said, but it came out so dense. Now I know what was wrong. The kitchen I was in was very cold (owner likes to keep things very cold around the house) so the bread didn't ferment nearly as long as it needed.
Oven temperature comparison would be cool. Or warm I guess. Dunno how you'd control it though - controlling for time and controlling for doneness (internal temperature?) would yield different results.
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In his bread cookbook, Ken Forkish says to think of time and temperature as ingredients. I’ve always liked that.
A really cool and mind broadening perception.
Excellent video. Time and temperature are the key to baked bread meeting our expectations. Both time and temperature will affect the final taste of the dough regardless of the recipe type used.
Had these three breads been allowed to rise to the same level, a longer time for the cold dough, and a shorter time for the very warm dough, their final appearance would have been more similar, but the taste noticeably different.
While a colder dough can be fermented for longer to reach a proper rise, it will taste different than either a dough that rises in the optimum temperature range, or one that had a faster rise from being too warm and over proofed a good bit as shown in this video.
When dough ferments, two events affect flavor. The yeast, a fungus, produces lactose or dairy type flavor note. The bacteria present in the flour produces sour notes. Temperature management of all ingredients and components are important to ensure the dough achieves your desired result.
When dough is cold and takes longer to rise, the yeast slows down a lot, repressing the dairy flavor notes. which causes the rising to be slow. However, the colder temperature of the dough does not slow down the bacterial action nearly as much, so the colder dough becomes more tangy or sour.
When the yeast finally warms up enough in colder dough to rise in earnest, the dairy notes won't be able to catch up to balance the abundant sour bacterial flavors that have been happening all along and will still be happening until the bake, regardless of the cooler temperature. This results in a more tangy tasting bread. Nothing wrong with it, if that's your goal. That's why many folks like to make sourdough bread.
Dough that is too warm and rises rapidly simply doesn't have enough time to give the bread many dairy or sour flavors, so it comes out bland. Totally edible and usable, but it will be bland. If spreads or toppings are going to be used, then it may not be an issue as they will bring flavor, but on it's own, it will be bland.
Dough that rises around that 25C/77F range, will have a nice balance of both kinds of flavor notes. That's what most would call a good, well flavored bread. Regardless of the temperature of the dough, it's important to bake it when it looks ready, and not after a particular set duration of time. That will give you the best looking final bake, though the flavor will be impacted based on the total rise and fermentation time needed to get the right looking bread.
Thank you so much for these insights! Now I understand the whole thing about temperature and the magic word "fermentation" a lot better... Coming from a "Pizza Background": So that's why often Pizzaiolos do a Cold Fermentation(for a more tangy note)?(and also because of the yeast and air bubbles in the dough and some other benefits...) All in all you will get a different Pizza when you do a warm instead of cold fermentation, arent you?
@@peterkeffer6609 Yes, the final flavor of the bread or pizza dough will depend on how it is fermented. When I need to make dough in a hurry, often for a last minute pizzas, I double the yeast called for in the recipe, and make the dough with warmer water and a bit more yeast. To offset the lack of proper fermentation flavor since the dough will be ready to use in 2-3 hours, I often substitute a light flavored lager or pilsner beer for the water in the recipe. That brings some malty and slight hoppy flavor to the dough. The minimal alcohol doesn't affect the dough, and vaporizes during the baking, leaving behind the flavor.
I use an inexpensive mild beer, usually a light beer, and warm it to about 35C/95F and sub it for the water called for in the recipe. It works pretty well at bringing some flavor to the fast rise dough party instead of the pizza dough being bland. Works well for making a loaf of bread in a hurry to add some flavor, too.
Thank you for the insightful comments, Tim! I will definitely keep the beer trick in my back pocket. Cheers! :)
I am having difficulty in a tropical climate without confidence in what I am trying to do. I buy bulk flour unsure of what I am getting. No controlled temp, likely 90 deg and every loaf is an experiment. I adopted a sweet flavor for my local friends, add essential wheat gluten. It is difficult to make bread here to make a nice bread. I learned to respect our bakers . Thank you for your scientific approach. I cook as a hobby and not a buisness. BTW my bread is like my mother made for me many years ago.
Baking is all about adapting to your environment and to your equipment. I'm sure you'll dial it in. Keep going ;)
I have the same issue so I now use cold slow fermentation in the summer
Well, now I know why it takes so long to get my dough to rise. It's too cold in my kitchen.
Thanks a bunch for taking the time to educate noobs like me :-)
I've only baked bread twice in my life, both of those times were recently.
Lookig forwards to getting it right! Because homemade bread is so incredibly tasty!
Alright...have a great day!
The next loaf will most certainly be closer to perfection! ;)
I've been getting around with my cookign skills for past 2 years, but for some reason baking was always failing me.
The way you construct and explain things is a godsend, since you account for all the differences and making it not as riggid as other recipe videos that pretty much just say "yeah, mix it all and get results".
Since watching your videos i become more aware of the circumstances like temperature. My kitchen was 16 degrees Celsius the other day. I left my rolls to proof for 2,5 hours before i thought they were ready to go into the oven. I am very grateful for your channel.
I'm glad I can help along the way :)
Thanks for the video. Currently 17C days here. I put the oven on low for 5mins and then put a pan of boiling water in the bottom. This keeps the oven warm and humid while the dough autolyses and ferments. Then into a loaf tin and the fridge for a cold proof. Fresh bread first thing tomorrow. 😊
Because, as a Welshman,I cannot find any edible bread here in Belarus, I have really got into making my own bread here! And this video is absolutely replicating my own observations! Really enjoyed watching you back up my own assesment! 👍👍
I didn't pay attention to temperature control until I started watching your videos. You put much more importance on it than other youtube bakers. I do like checking where my dough temperature is so I know whether to expect it to ferment at the same rate as your recipe or to adjust the time longer or shorter.
This was excellent. As usual. Knowing that everyone's kitchen is different and that temperature really is an ingredient is so important. Perhaps you could do a video on how baking temperature affects the bread next? That would be interesting to see.
I work in a commercial bakery (Nabisco) and make the dough for Premium Crackers. Your videos have helped me understand the dough making and proofing process. Thank you.
🤜🤛
I just started getting into bread making and started out just using hot water from the tap at 120 degrees f. When the dough rose very high, I thought I was doing it right. Since I started following your techniques a few weeks ago, I now use 75 degree water with the preferment and dough. Loaf comes out beautiful. Thanks.
i literally never thought about this. I learned in school to use body temp and my family believes the same bec less or more and you kill yeast. But now i know why my breads rise so much and so fast! and sometimes it never rises! Also i usually only proof once, so i'm gonna try folding and doing it multiple times to test it out!
I live in a tropical country so it's quite warm all year round and the definite best thing for me to do when mixing is to take some chilled water or milk. It really does help with controlling the fermentation rather than how some online recipes ask to bloom the yeast in microwaved water or milk. Recipes are always guidelines for sure but the best teacher is definitely experience since environment, climate, ingredients and temperature will all affect your final product.
I personally love doing dinner rolls and making it into miniature loaves, they make nice mini sandwiches.
You can even chill the flour :)
When making pizza dough I always ferment it in the fridge over a couple of days, that way it has loads of flavour and cooks nice and crispy. For a loaf I generally keep it slightly below optimal temperature over about 6 hours which produces really flavourful bread which is great for sandwiches. As you pointed out fermenting too fast gives a bland bread that is no better than store bought.
Crazy helpful video as always, Charlie. Thank you once again!!!
Cheers :)
I love these comparison videos. Thank you!
Thank you :)
I've never really thought too much about the fermentation temperature. I've always had pretty good results. But, I do keep the thermostat for my home set at 75F (26C) so I guess that's why my breads turn out ok, but I usually let them ferment for a little longer. It makes sense now that I know my kitchen is at the low end of the temperature where yeast is happiest. Thank you for another great and informative video!
How long did you let them rise in 26°C?
And how many hours did you let them to rise in final fermentation?
Thank you!
@@veyyazel5042 I keep my house thermostat set on 75 degrees Fahrenheit (23.89 degrees Centigrade) I incorrectly converted temperature to Centigrade when I posted my comment. It's been a while since I've baked bread, but I think I let it rise for roughly four hours, maybe a little more or less. I just keep an eye on it. I usually bake bread in the winter not summer to avoid heating up my kitchen.
Fantastic comparison - as my home is generally cooler (cold granite countertop and I don't use the heater much), I do take care and manage my water/dough temperature (only because of watching your videos, of course). I sure hope I can control the dough temperature once summer arrives. As always, many thank for sharing your expertise, baking experiences and this comparison video.
69.7K - whoo hoo! 🎉🎉🎉 70K is just around the corner. Everyone, don't forget to share your bakes on your social media channels and share how ChainBaker's YT Channel has helped your baking skills with your "baking buddies". I know his videos have improved and expanded my baking skills exponentially!! Go "Team ChainBaker" 📣📣📣
Summer + a granite surface should be best mates ;)
Woo hoo and we're already past 70! I can't believe how well it's going. Hopefully it does not stop haha 😁
Huge thanks to you for the kind support as ever, Lan! :)
Great vid mate, thanks very much.
Fascinating. I've been reading up about proofing boxes. Just an enclosed box where you put your bowl with dough and a bowl of steaming water. This is meant to help you get a good temp in colder climates🤞. Everywhere in my house is a lovely 17℃.
I do this in my microwave during the winter. A cup of water microwaved 2mins at 1000w to get it hot and steaming and leaving the dough in there with it. Works like a charm!
@@bananawomanD Thanks for the advice.
These videos are awesome, and I am definitely learning a lot from these comparison videos as a beginner home bread baker
I am so happy dude. I've been watching since you had 300 views per video and nothing gives me more joy than seeing this channel grow
Thanks for hanging in there with me 😉
@@ChainBaker No, thank you! Your recipes allow me to bond with my family over a shared love of cooking through your recipes.
🙏
OK, I have to admit I was a little skeptical when you were always taking and adjusting the dough's temperature in previous videos. Now I get it. Thank you for future better bread.
Even though I haven’t been baking that long I feel like I understand so much since I’ve been watching these videos. I know enough to start adjusting recipes instead of blindly following them.
Thank you for covering so many aspects of the art!
For the little baking I do. I have found that if two temperatures are used it is better to be warm at the start and cool at the end because it makes it easier to catch the ideal amount of rise. If starting cool and finishing too warm, it is fermenting very fast at the end and easy to look away for 15-20 minutes and get a dry over-inflated crumb, especially if the oven needs extra time to preheat. (Maybe forgot to turn it on early enough.)
My kitchen is very cool most of the year, 10c for 7 months, and 30-35c for 3 months. So I alternate between a warming cabinet/box, the counter and the refrigerator. I built the box for germinating seeds but that is only a for a few weeks each year, it has good temperature control.
Are you in the desert (dry) or in the deep South (humid)? I wonder if air humidity makes a difference - it sure makes me miserable!
@@terfalicious I have medium humidity. It makes no difference if the dough is covered, the humidity is always high under the lid.
Dough temperature control is still a little bit the aerobatics to me, but because of your easy digestible information I will be there! Cheers, Charlie 🙏🏻🍀🍞🥖
Hi chef, all the videos are very very helpful, thank you so much for the video, wish your best of luck and waiting for next one.
🙏
So as a new bread maker, I was excited about putting my sourdough in my warm oven (85F+) and having it ferment quicker. I thought I’d cracked some kind of code 😂. But now I know why my bread would end up flatter and without the characteristic sour tang of sourdough bread. Lesson learned 👍
I have had mini mini bad loves, and after seeing your comparison, I have a better understanding of my temperature. Hopefully I will be able to make a proper love someday.
Recently I've become a fan of doing my scald the day before and letting it sit overnight. I always take it out and let it warm up before I mix it into a dough. I've also done a lot of work with preferments and i like the deep flavors you get. But even with that, you have to let them warm up or you don't get volume.
Thank you for another excellent comparison video!
(“That’s all I have for you today” gave me Lockpicking Lawyer vibes - love it!)
Perhaps I watched too many of his videos in the past 😂
So glad I found this channel yesterday.
I love precision. And your directions are so precise and backed up with reasoning and even demonstration. Love it.
Also the production quality is great. Love the attention to detail and the clean presentation.
Welcome to the channel! Thank you so much :)
I LOVE your comparison videos! Best way to learn and from such a pleasant host
I really appreciate this video. This is the second video of yours I've watched and both have pointed out what I've been doing wrong by trying to change my recipes over time. The average temperature in my house in Thailand is 30c. No air conditioning. I make quick bread using vitamin C for just one rising. This gave me a good loaf. After putting the dough in the tins I used to put them in a loose plastic bag to rise. I got good texture and crust. I then got impatient and put the tins uncovered in a foam box, uncovered, with a bottle of hot water!!! You've shown me my mistake. The loaves rose quickly, but even started to collapse when giving them a spray with water before putting them in the oven. The result was a soft crust tasteless loaf. Thanks for showing me where I've been going wrong with temperature and using lard. Both good advice. I'll come back to you next week when I bake again. Thanks again.
Check out the Principles of Baking playlist on my channel for more videos like this one :)
@@ChainBaker Will do.
*Most excellent Charlie!* 🥨 Temperature definitely matter. I always use room temperature water to allow the yeast to work at its own pace, and not force fermentation faster than required.
Your videos are very helpful, I just started making bread for 2 months. and using cold and warm temperature milk vs the weather temperature is really matters esp with the taste of the bread & how it ferment. Thanksss so much for your vids
Best baking videos I have ever seen
🙏
I've been a bit lax on temperature control, which may explain why I've done better when using preferments and poolish. My eyes are wide open now though. Another great video.
These videos have been very helpful, thank you. Would also love to see a comparison video on the effects of yeast.
Wonderful as always. I LOVE the scientific approach. You taught me how to make bread. I'm making about 2 loaves a week and they always come out great! Thank you so much
Our ambient temperature is usually between 80F and 100F. Average is somewhere in the middle. I've learned to really cool down the water or sometimes the whole dough, because it's really easy to overheat. It's funny, because a lot of recipes account for cooler weather by telling you to use the oven with a light, or some warm water in a box to proof. I actually need to account for the opposite!
I sometimes chill my flour in the summer too :)
this video is excellent. I am from India , I faced this problem many times.
I never paid attention to temperature until I started to watch your videos... now Im beginning to pay a lot more attention to it and definitely vary the fermentation time depending on how warm it is and not what it says in the recipe...
Nice video. This is why one should not ferment based on time, but based on volume growth!
Absolutely! :))
👍👍👍👍👍 These comparison videos you are doing are incredibly informative and go way beyond the knowledge of any and all experts and teachers.
Thank you! :)
Good job, I love baking and now I have the edge with your tips...
I generally use room-temperature (low 70s F) water and let the dough rise in the oven with the light on. I'm still very much a dilettante when it comes to baking, but that approach has produced adequate bread for me. I'll occasionally warm the water up if I want to shorten the proofing time. I keep my flour in the refrigerator, so it's always cold.
Thanks for this... The proper amount of salt is all the world of difference with flavor. But, I’ve never noticed how it affected the texture of the bread.
A little thing that I learned by studying the difference between refined industrial (table) salt and whole (raw) unrefined salt is that the flavor is better and it does not raise health issues, or cause high blood pressure as refined table salt will. I like to think of it as a difference between eating refined white sugar versus getting your sugar from a piece of fruit. It’s much better than to have the straight industrialized sodium that most people eat. The naturally occurring minerals, although trace amounts will over time be exactly the right amount that your body needs when it’s used regularly. The best one, in my opinion is Redmond’s Real Salt, mined in the USA. However, I will take that, pink Himalayan or Celtic Gray sea salt over any refined salt. You can use these whole salts for anything you consume.
Awesome explaination mate... Mine always on the high temp since i lived at tropical country. Lowest temp ive ever made is 29 deg, with short time of fermentation. If i make a long time of fermentation it will reach 30-31 deg dough.
I wish you adjusted the time to the dough temps as not to under or over proof. I was a baker in the Navy and we had a formula for dough temps. The formula included the flour temp and a friction factor from the mixer. We would adjust the water temp from there. I really like your videos btw.
Something like this? ruclips.net/video/MrgXRwkz-3w/видео.html
I've been following a routine and not paying attention to the dough temp. But so far I've only been making bread this winter. Summer is coming and I believe I will have to make some changes. I'll have to check out your videos on the subject.
Interesting! Thanks for Sharing!
Super interesting information ℹ️ thanks for sharing this ☺️
Fantastic instructive video as always. Very practical. Please consider either adding the temperature readings over the video, or reading the thermometer reading as the numbers are not easily seen with this instrument due to its size and light reflection. Thank you.
thank you for helping my bio studies on how temperature affects yeast fermentation!
This was quite interesting to see, thank you.
Cheers :)
These vids are GOATED.
I was looking exactly for this information. Your practical examples are very helpful. Thank you very much!
I make more pizza than bread but the scientific method that you present on your videos is very educational. Thanks!
Thanks for the advice
Another great video my friend. Thanks for sharing.
🙏
These videos are golddddd
nice pauroti,loved it
As always excellent. Any chance you could do some comparisons on vital wheat gluten and maybe ssl/Sodium Stearoyl Lactylate..
Vital wheat video is coming soon ;)
I'm from Bolivia we're average ambient temp is 30 °C usually don't temperature control but on Windy days dough does rise slower even covered
i keep my house pretty cool. about 18°C. so I have to let my dough rise quite a bit longer than usual. I'm going to do some experiments and see how long. Thanks for the info Charlie.
Awesome video. I just love this kind of empirical evidence that show what actually happens. I have an idea to propose which I was about to test myself but might be cool to see you do it: test the difference between bread flour versus all purpose with added wheat gluten. I heard that you can add 1 1/2 teaspoon of wheat gluten into a cup of all purpose (minus 1 1/2 teaspoons) to make it act like a bread flour, but I'm skeptical. Anyways cheers!
Literally just finished filming a video about that 😁
Very useful video. Thanks you ❤
this is so helpful, can't thank you enough.
🙏
Love those Videos. So much detail. So much to learn from. My only issue is that i can't eat and enjoy all of it by myself before it goes stale.
Also, Chainbaker, is there a reason for you to bake everything on the Grill Setting on your oven? Is it because it is the only fan-less option? Would you suggest to use a "no-fan, top+bottom heat" option if available? Does it matter as long as the fan is off? Why is fan off even important?
My oven only has the top heating element. I would always suggest using both. Fan vs no fan depends on the bread being baked. I normally use the fan for lower temperature bakes. As a general rule there should be a 10% temperature adjustment when switching from one method to the other. Example: 180C no fan = 160C fan ON! :)
I like your point about recipes. Food is a relationship. It sounds cheesy but that’s really helped me observe and better interact with produce. Respecting the natural process of things is no more prevalent than making bread - and it’s only been through the sharing of your knowledge and passion that I’ve discovered this. ☺️🙏🏻 Bread making is the most intimate tactile relationship between human and food. Hummmmmm 🧘🏻♂️🧘🏻♂️🧘🏻♂️ 😂😂😂
I started Saturday morning with 3 doughs; Pancake batter, big a pizza, and cuban poolish. The cuban bread dough got put in the fridge to slow it down. I’ve not had time to make the pulled pork. So I’ll get to experience a slowed down fermentation.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us. 😱😍🖖
Thank you or posting this. I was in the process of making a couple loaves of sandwich bread and made sure to temp the dough. My kitchen is 62°F so I used the oven (and an IR gun) as a proofing box. The bread is cooling so I haven't a clue if it made a difference. I'm betting it did.
finally the video I've been waiting for :) tbh I didn't pay too much attention to temp control, although watching your videos for a while now I know how much you stressed it's importance. It's just that I've never felt convinced to why is it important. I kinda knew that fermentation develops flavor but I've always been looking at fermentation as the time to get yeast up and running, so if bread rising faster, it means yeast got active quicker. So that video sort of opened my eyes to what I already know :) I guess I'll pay more attention to temperature control from now on. BONUS QUESTION: if you're making a warmer bread so it is fermenting quicker, do you think you could compensate the lack of flavor and character by doing a poolish a day before?
Definitely. The whole purpose of a preferment is to add flavour and cut down on fermentation time :)
@@ChainBaker Fun story: I recently was in hurry when baking bread for my friend, and I prepared preferment the day before with 2g of fresh yeast per 500g of flour, then the day after when I mixed everything and put it for bench rest I realized I forgot to add the rest of the yeast :D I thought I will need to throw it into trash but I gave it a chance and let it rise as long as I could (final fermentation for 2-3h) and it baked beautifully! Much better oven spring than I usually get and from the photo she sent me it was extremely bubbly inside, despite being 60% hydration only. She told it was very good but I'd lave to check it for myself.. :) Is it because the gases from longer fermentation expand more in the oven? Or there is another reason for that?
I'd say it was definitely the long slow fermentation!
Thank you .. this is the most useful channel
Please we want to compare the best degree of fermentation 25-30-40 in the same circumstances
How does the bread and rolls from the bakeries remain soft even the next day. What do they use to keep the texture soft.
I'm curious about this too.
Preservatives
Usually, dough products lost softness overtime not because they lose water, but the starches inside them crystallize. You can reverse that process (at certain levels, of course) by reheating. In case of bakeries, they should be using something that prevents starch molecules to form crystals, IMHO
Commercial bread most certainly only stays fresh because all kinds of nasty additives. Small bakery breads may contain fats, eggs, perhaps some lecithin, or even use a improver like yudane or tangzhong.
Been waiting for this one! Super useful.
Though I rarely bake bread these days (had to quit gluten), I've always fed my dough lukewarm water (like you'd expect with fresh milk), except for hot days where I'd simply incorporate room temperature water. I've never had to leave dough unattended, so I've never had to put it in the cool room or call the babysitter. But if it does rise too fast I'd simply work it down again, though this activates more gluten and might be undesirable in some recipes. And if the weather is a little too cold and the dough isn't rising fast enough, I'd use a second bowl of warm water beneath to act as a heater (no direct contact), or put it near a hot stove, or even warm the oven a bit then keep the dough in there after switching the oven off.
I like reusing heat energy, so if I'm steaming something in a pot I'd place a casserole dish on the lid not only to trap the steam but also to heat up the casserole dish and toast grains in it. However, some recipes do better with grains toasted faster under higher temperatures.
Another incredibly helpful video!
Awesome video, thanks for sharing, I use cold water around 13c and egg from the fridge and use a mixer while every done mixing its already warm because of my kitchen temperature around 32 to 35c and the dough will be ready for baking in 30 to 45min of rest after shaping.
Wow. Your kitchen is hot. I would hate to have to cook at those temps. 35C is 95F
The mixer also adds heat because of friction. 13c is warmer than my kitchen most of the year.
@@mytech6779 I live in Malaysia and it's hot all day and managed to do delicious breads and buns, one thing I wish to do that I can't is croissant but I will try it like early when it's the coldest.
You can chill your flour to control the temperature :)
The only temperature control that I have' is that I always take water direct form the tap. Here in Denmark our drinking water doesn't go through a water treatment process and is pure ground water. The temperature is therefore always constant at 8C. However, I've never measured the dough temperature during bread making. I'm now going to do so. Thanks👍
8C in a good all round temperature. Unless your kitchen is cold in winter, then the dough may take a lot longer to rise :)
Amazing! Since all I do is cold fermentation I still like the 24C. When the dough is cold like 19C, that's good for long fridge fermentation if you want the enzymes to eat the starch but don't want much yeast activity. I found that works great when doing Detroit Pizza. After stretching I prefer to leave it for a few hours to rise as there is a lot of food for the yeast but the complex flavors from 36 hours come through. Obviously I use a pre ferment too :) Gives a better crumb and tastes great.
Almost 100K bro :)
Woah nice info. Is 19C the limit for dough undergo long fridge fermentation? My final dough temperature usually around 25°C after done mixing and i put it straight to fridge for long fermentation
@@AJAA2916 Well if you go right into the fridge, I suggest 24C considering you are using strong flour, You cannot let it in the fridge for more then 36 to 48 hours, then you pull it out and let it warm up to room temp and the final rise before you put it in the oven.
I am not a bread guy, I am a pizza guy but its similar. Think of it like this, if you are doing fridge fermentation from my findings 24C dough temp and room temp is ideal for the yeast. That being said, if you bring the dough down to 19C it wont rise much in the fridge but that is good for Detroit style pizza where you want to leave the dough rest while you stretch but you don't want it to rise a lot until the final proofing. So depending on what your purpose is there are different methods. But if you are doing bread and doing long fermentation just remember, high protein flour, 24C dough temp and room temp. 1 hour rest at room temp 24C if its not a preferment and no more then 40 min rest at 24C then into the fridge. I suggest 20 minutes rest if its a preferment. Depending on the protein of your flour, the lower it is the less time in the fridge, so 24 - 48 hours for best results. I see Charlie doing many folds and leaving the dough at room temp for a few hours but he only goes in the fridge for bulk fermentation for no more then 18 hours because the dough has already taken a beating and any longer it would over proof in the fridge.
24 hours would be a 12.5% protein, 36 hours 13.5% protein and 48 hours 14% or more. There are some flours that have Manitoba flour that are over 15% protein, they can take even up to 72 hours. Also the W factor changes with higher protein. Higher protein is also more water absorption from the flour
When in the fridge the yeast is active but very little. the colder your dough the less time it has to activate, but the enzymes still do their work as cold doesn't affect them but they can over proof your dough because they keep eating the starch so if left to long the dough will become a blob and fall apart. so its all about experimenting and knowing what you want out of your dough. I do preferments and I want maximum time in the fridge for flavor before I cook the pizza. I don't recommend doing your dough at 19C or lower unless you have a specific purpose. I hope that answers your question.
I was surprised at how badly the 20c dough did, how long was the bulk fermentation and final proving in the video. As you say, we have to learn our environment, my house is kept on the cool side so I have to start with warmer water to hit my final dough temp, and I also have a home-made fermentation box which I can keep in the mid to high 20s.
Thanks for the great visual comparison videos.
First of all - Thank you for your awesome videos. Your videos are of extremely high quality, I love your seamless time-lapses and how you make it look easy to make dough.
I'm coming from a Pizza Background and want to understand the WHY - but nearly all "Pizzaiolo" videos lack this type of information - you came to the rescue! Yesterday, I learned more in 2 hours about dough and baking watching your videos than with dozens of hours watching Pizzaiolos!
Question: Many Pizzaiolos don't want to get over 24°C(especially with a professional mixer) - their argument is, that the Gluten structure gets weakened/destroyed(or something close to this). Is there anything valid about this? If not and it's only about the speed of fermentation: Most of those people are cold-fermenting anyway, so why this is so important? Is there such a huge difference between 24°C and 28°C if you put it into the fridge right after kneading(with a mixer)?
I would say it has not that much to do with the mixing itself, but rather the fermentation. 24C is a good temperature for cold bulk fermentation. Anything over that can lead to over fermentation whilst it is in the fridge and that in turn will affect the gluten greatly.
If your dough becomes too warm during mixing you can pop it in the fridge and then give it a couple of folds in 45 minute intervals the help it cool down sooner.
I've definitely made the dough on the right a few times 😅 At least now I know why
I userly make a high 80+ percent hydration and ferment for a few days in the refrigerator when making pizza.
I'm new to making my own breads (around a year now) but I've had luck with proofing in my oven with just the light on (got that idea from John Kirkwood). If that's not enough to overcome my cold kitchen I point a tiny space heater in the general direction of the oven. Around 26 to 29c seems to work best for my humid climate. I only regulate the temp of the wet ingredients, maybe it's time to do the bowl and the dry ingredients too.
I sometimes heat water in my microwave, then remove it and let my bread rise in the nice, warm microwave.
@@philip6502 There's an idea.
You can certainly regulate the flour temperature :)
@@ChainBaker I'll give it a go next time time I make a loaf.
Very, very useful video. Thank you
IMPORTANT QUESTION: do we have to pay attention to dough temperature control during the kneading process (24-26 degrees), when we have a cold bulk fermentation in the fridge overnight? because its going to the fridge anyway and drop temperature rapidly. thank you in advance, I appreciate all your work and efforts.
You should still aim for the same temperature range. Here's my cold fermentation guide ruclips.net/video/x-8UoEgtt48/видео.html
Temperature is a real problem for me here in Thailand with both heat and humidity with preparing and trying to get a sourdough starter.
You could use the fridge. Let the starter ferment for a bit at room temperature and then refrigerate it.
Thank you, sir!
I wanted to make it my ninja foodi but could not find some exact temperature ranges info.
One variable that is hard to control is altitude. I live at sea level, my in laws live at 2900 meters near the top of a mountain. Apparently the altitude makes it impossible to bake bread in a conventional way.
I haven't personally baked there yet but I'm definitely planning on making a few styles of bread on my next trip to their house. (A tortilla, English muffin, and just a basic white loaf are my planed breads)
I would be curious to know what the results will be. Hopefully you can share :))
Man, I've been so busy with all the other variables that temperature really hasn't been on the top of my list. I must be lucky because I'm making some pretty wicked sourdough bread without really paying attention. I left the dough ferment in my oven with the oven light on. If I had to guess I would say it's probably around 78 to 85°. My bulk ferment is usually 3 hours and it doubles plus maybe 20%. I use filtered water at room temperature
I made bread once and I didn't know what I did wrong. I followed everything as it said, but it came out so dense. Now I know what was wrong. The kitchen I was in was very cold (owner likes to keep things very cold around the house) so the bread didn't ferment nearly as long as it needed.
nice, i always keep my house at about 20-22C so i've never noticed the temperature difference :p
Oven temperature comparison would be cool. Or warm I guess.
Dunno how you'd control it though - controlling for time and controlling for doneness (internal temperature?) would yield different results.
I might make a video on this in the future :)
@@ChainBaker Well then I might watch it!