In fact, both Karian Axemen and Levy Thureos Spears use the same shield (stat wise at least). Both have the Thureos. This gives them +25 melee defense, +35 armor, and a 40% chance to deflect projectiles. So they both have the same missleblockchange.
I understand all of this. But if your using Cataphracts to fight cav I think your using them wrong. Use them to smash infantry while Camel cataphracts are better like only faction has them. So cataphracts are good but you shouldn't get very many of them and should usually get some cheaper cav but one of them can be absolute game changer.
Cavalry are always on the flanks, so if the enemy has the same amount of cavalry as you, how do you catch up with their cav other than using your own cav? That's why catas are so bad, you want your cavalry to win the fight on the flanks so that they can deliver that decisive charge on their main line. I mean why pay more for a cavalry unit that loses to cheaper cavalry? Also, the cheaper melee cavalry is gonna do a good enough job charging the main line after winning the flanks.
@benedictjajo you have a point there. But how I use cataphacts is the general unit or just one of them so late game when nearly all cav is dead they can do their job. I have lost because of one unit of cataphacts they are generally overrated but are still good their like an elephant unit with way less risk but way less power.
You have to do 10 underrated units too now. Also, oathsworn is not overrated. It is the prime target to blast down with missiles because it is not overrated. Same thing can go for literally any unit in the game. If you shoot a unit enough times it will die it's not an Oathsworn problem.
sword followers are not stronger than galatian legionaries . galatian legionaries are not "overrated" they are one of the best mid tier unit in the entire game . the most important thing is their tankines they have 65 melee defence in comparison followers only have 57 (vet legions have 48 and samnites 55) they also have +1 charge bonus and +1 melee attack compared to followers and they both have same armour and health the only thing followers have better is 65 morale compared to 60 but that is really not a big deal , melee defence being the most important difference . tribals are also very good because of 70 melee defence and 95 armour , they have a lot of staying power but they also have 10 less melee attack compared to galas . also tarantines do not have "much more" armour compared to citizens in fact they have 10 less armour than citizens , they also have far less melee attack and charge bonus on the other hand they have better melee defense , health and morale - to be honest both of these cavs never were my cup of tea , tarantines are a bit better i guess but than again , they require a lot of micro and they are absolutely no good for begginers or casual multiplayer guys . they will just get catched and killed if you slip on your micro . of course elite players can get 150 kills with them (i also sometimes do) but its not worth the hustle and my micro also ain´t what it used to be back in the day when i actively played tournaments . if possible i avoid both of these cavs but sometime you just have to bring them ... oathsworn are absolutely great , probably the best melee unit in the entire game , just remember to take battle rhytm and second wind general , you wanted to highlight praetorians - but every time i see someone bringing them at 11700 funds in online battle i just smile because it means he is new or doesn´t know what he is doing and i already won that battle basically (works every time someone brings rome elites at 11700) ... these are the most useless unit to take as rome , if you take 2-3 of these guys the rest of your army is basically trash that can be easily dealt with and these 2 or 3 elites are easy to single out and kill , they also don´t kill enemy units nearly as fast as the oathsworn with head hunt , battle rhytm and then second wind . i agree 100% with the 1400 eles - they are very bad , seleucids and baktria has best elephant units in the game but those 1600 or 1500 (epiros) eles are also useable . cataphracts i also agree , not just this one unit but catas in general im not a big fan - they are painfully slow and hard to get their value paid back . i much rather bring more versatile and faster mid tier shock cav than catas ... levi thureos spears work great as cav holders and cav killers that is why i bring them , you can have a mixture of axemen and levi thureos axes are good as a main line support unit whereas levies are great on the flanks for holding enemy cav at bay (they also have 10+ melee defence and 20 bonus vs large compared to axemen) .
also highlighting roman praetorians on the picture for 1300 cost which is probably the single worst/most useless unit you can bring as rome into 11700 funds multiplayer battle ... these guys never pay for themselves . catas are not that great to be honest i agree with him on that one . they get exhausted very fast and then they are too slow and easy to kill .
@@darkglobe406 i think for such units it really comes down to how to use them and surprise effect. If you manage to keep the unit hidden till close to the end, it can decide the entire battle. But if it gets detected, and is caught pants down, it will get hammered
@@darkglobe406i don't really like shock heavy Calvary (especially Catahpract). I prefer the faster but still stronger shock heavy Calvary like Thessalian and Companion Calvary
@@elkingoh4543 yeah thessalians are my favourite cavalry unit in the entire game . they can be really cost effective . macedon would be a bottom tier land battle faction without thessalians .
Yeah full meta stuff. What about enjoying the game and unit details? Bringing armoured legionnaires in a fight might do the difference in winning. You shouldn't say it's not worth it. Same for the others. I feel that players should have the balls to play the game as is designed, and not seek play meta all the time. That's for children.
Also, this is probably just for multiplayer. In my campaign with Rome I specifically re built my armies with armoured legionaries because it made it way easier to win even outnumbered
For me it's the noble fighters. They are worse than oathsworn yet more expensive. I'd rather have the cav general since it is the best barb cav in the game and can cycle charge any non pike or expert charge defense unit frontally into oblivion.
Cataphracts are not overrated. They can cycle charge anything. And if you charge against melee cav with cataphracts one on one you will win. You don't even need to cycle charge they just rout after seconds. First charge has biggest effect and they have more mass then other cav. Because of that they can beat any cav easily like and any unit easily other than cataphract. You can charge enemy infantry with cataphracts then pull back and even your shitty infantry will win against elite infantry because of the charge effect. They are game changer.
for me i have to say tarantine cav is the most overrated ... it can be deadly but only in the hands of really good players . also disciples of apedemak with their 0 armour and 25 shield value are very overrated , these guys get shot to pieces way before they can engage my main line infantry = minus 1220 denari unit for my opponent .
@@darkglobe406 Disciples have 55% missile block chance and 85 HP. they Eat arrows for breakfast as long as you never show sword side/ back to archers. Easily the strongest unit in the game.
@@pacifist3651 they still have 0 armour and they die like flies if under concentrated slinger/archer fire ... every time somebody bring those into battle i shoot them to pieces - by the time enemy player gets them to engage my main line they are already reduced to 40-50 (less than half) men in the unit ... if i play kush and bring one of them i treat them as if i have elephants , i wait untill i deal with enemy skirmishers and use them late battle to break the enemy units . but i don´t get the hype , these guys are totally overrated for their price ... and so is kush as a whole . of course if you are playing VS some newbie or a bad player you destroy him , but then again you can do that with pretty much any faction if you know what you are doing and you are facing inferior opponent .
@@darkglobe406 disciples are a high tier competitive unit for tournament players. They are tanker than you realize u bully bad players that take them bc they panic when getting shot turn around and try to flee. thats when they die. A good player with a disciple is very scary bc how much ammo it takes to kill just one unit of them and how quickly they do dmg to ur frontline its almost always guaranteed 2 chervons + ammo absorption value from enemy players. making it one of the most cost effective elites for the money in the game.
@@pacifist3651 no , not really , they are glass cannon ... shoot them into non shielded side and they are f.k.ed , even if you shoot them into shielded side or in the front with 2 slinger units they will die pretty fast in my experience ... and no it was not only when they turn around "panic and flee" , many times i was just shooting them in the front with slingers and they still die fast . you need to be better than your opponent to pull it off with disciples and make them cost effective , as i have said they are useless for random casual players (or bad/mediocre tournament players for that matter) an old school elite player like greek iraklis or AK could destroy you even using pergamon or sparta so that is kinda of a moot point ... even citizen cav look like gods in the hands of an elite micro player . anyway the overall quality of competitive R2 tournament gameplay deteriorated rapidly from what it was 7-8 years ago , from the replays i see players are doing lots of micro mistakes and bad decision making , even in late stages like 1/4 or semifinals ... it all comes down to how you use your units really and if you have a game plan and good enough micro to pull it off - nobody decent rushes disciples straight into front lines at the start of a battle , you wait for your window of opportunity and than send them in , and yes then they can do much damage if enemy missile units have been already dealt with ... needless to say they are also "very light" mass , so you need to worry a lot about enemy cavalry also , not just a missile fire . for their price they just have too many weaknesses .
In fact, both Karian Axemen and Levy Thureos Spears use the same shield (stat wise at least). Both have the Thureos. This gives them +25 melee defense, +35 armor, and a 40% chance to deflect projectiles.
So they both have the same missleblockchange.
You are the best! Thanks a lot
I understand all of this. But if your using Cataphracts to fight cav I think your using them wrong. Use them to smash infantry while Camel cataphracts are better like only faction has them. So cataphracts are good but you shouldn't get very many of them and should usually get some cheaper cav but one of them can be absolute game changer.
Cataphracts can be used a bit like cheaper but more versatile elephants. Save them for the endgame and they can cycle charge anything.
Cavalry are always on the flanks, so if the enemy has the same amount of cavalry as you, how do you catch up with their cav other than using your own cav? That's why catas are so bad, you want your cavalry to win the fight on the flanks so that they can deliver that decisive charge on their main line. I mean why pay more for a cavalry unit that loses to cheaper cavalry? Also, the cheaper melee cavalry is gonna do a good enough job charging the main line after winning the flanks.
@benedictjajo you have a point there. But how I use cataphacts is the general unit or just one of them so late game when nearly all cav is dead they can do their job. I have lost because of one unit of cataphacts they are generally overrated but are still good their like an elephant unit with way less risk but way less power.
You have to do 10 underrated units too now.
Also, oathsworn is not overrated. It is the prime target to blast down with missiles because it is not overrated. Same thing can go for literally any unit in the game. If you shoot a unit enough times it will die it's not an Oathsworn problem.
sword followers are not stronger than galatian legionaries .
galatian legionaries are not "overrated" they are one of the best mid tier unit in the entire game .
the most important thing is their tankines they have 65 melee defence in comparison followers only have 57 (vet legions have 48 and samnites 55)
they also have +1 charge bonus and +1 melee attack compared to followers and they both have same armour and health
the only thing followers have better is 65 morale compared to 60 but that is really not a big deal , melee defence being the most important difference .
tribals are also very good because of 70 melee defence and 95 armour , they have a lot of staying power but they also have 10 less melee attack compared to galas .
also tarantines do not have "much more" armour compared to citizens in fact they have 10 less armour than citizens , they also have far less melee attack and charge bonus
on the other hand they have better melee defense , health and morale - to be honest both of these cavs never were my cup of tea ,
tarantines are a bit better i guess but than again , they require a lot of micro and they are absolutely no good for begginers or casual multiplayer guys .
they will just get catched and killed if you slip on your micro . of course elite players can get 150 kills with them (i also sometimes do) but its not worth the hustle
and my micro also ain´t what it used to be back in the day when i actively played tournaments . if possible i avoid both of these cavs but sometime you just have to bring them ...
oathsworn are absolutely great , probably the best melee unit in the entire game , just remember to take battle rhytm and second wind general ,
you wanted to highlight praetorians - but every time i see someone bringing them at 11700 funds in online battle i just smile because it means he is new or doesn´t know what he is doing
and i already won that battle basically (works every time someone brings rome elites at 11700) ...
these are the most useless unit to take as rome , if you take 2-3 of these guys the rest of your army is basically trash that can be easily dealt with
and these 2 or 3 elites are easy to single out and kill , they also don´t kill enemy units nearly as fast as the oathsworn with head hunt , battle rhytm and then second wind .
i agree 100% with the 1400 eles - they are very bad , seleucids and baktria has best elephant units in the game
but those 1600 or 1500 (epiros) eles are also useable .
cataphracts i also agree , not just this one unit but catas in general im not a big fan - they are painfully slow and hard to get their value paid back .
i much rather bring more versatile and faster mid tier shock cav than catas ...
levi thureos spears work great as cav holders and cav killers that is why i bring them , you can have a mixture of axemen and levi thureos
axes are good as a main line support unit whereas levies are great on the flanks for holding enemy cav at bay
(they also have 10+ melee defence and 20 bonus vs large compared to axemen) .
I agree Galatian legionaries are beasts
Nice video but oathsworn and cataphracta?!
also highlighting roman praetorians on the picture for 1300 cost
which is probably the single worst/most useless unit you can bring as rome into 11700 funds multiplayer battle ...
these guys never pay for themselves .
catas are not that great to be honest i agree with him on that one .
they get exhausted very fast and then they are too slow and easy to kill .
@@darkglobe406 i think for such units it really comes down to how to use them and surprise effect. If you manage to keep the unit hidden till close to the end, it can decide the entire battle. But if it gets detected, and is caught pants down, it will get hammered
@@darkglobe406i don't really like shock heavy Calvary (especially Catahpract). I prefer the faster but still stronger shock heavy Calvary like Thessalian and Companion Calvary
@@elkingoh4543 yeah thessalians are my favourite cavalry unit in the entire game .
they can be really cost effective .
macedon would be a bottom tier land battle faction without thessalians .
@@darkglobe406 I like Macedonian, they have fastest shock Calvary in the game, Thessalian is one of them
No image on screen on 2:57 as promissed.
Was just about to comment this lol
My bad, did not see in the process
I have always thought that Tribal Warriors' armor value is a bug, it's just way too high. Actually, there was a mod in the workshop that nerfed them.
Yeah full meta stuff. What about enjoying the game and unit details? Bringing armoured legionnaires in a fight might do the difference in winning. You shouldn't say it's not worth it. Same for the others. I feel that players should have the balls to play the game as is designed, and not seek play meta all the time. That's for children.
Also, this is probably just for multiplayer. In my campaign with Rome I specifically re built my armies with armoured legionaries because it made it way easier to win even outnumbered
I wont accept any elephant slander
AYYYYYY
He rememberd his password
For me it's the noble fighters. They are worse than oathsworn yet more expensive. I'd rather have the cav general since it is the best barb cav in the game and can cycle charge any non pike or expert charge defense unit frontally into oblivion.
Cataphracts are not overrated. They can cycle charge anything. And if you charge against melee cav with cataphracts one on one you will win. You don't even need to cycle charge they just rout after seconds. First charge has biggest effect and they have more mass then other cav. Because of that they can beat any cav easily like and any unit easily other than cataphract. You can charge enemy infantry with cataphracts then pull back and even your shitty infantry will win against elite infantry because of the charge effect. They are game changer.
Also, if you get a cataphract into endgame vs infantry, trample charges will win if they don't have expert charge defense
How about Kartili Axeman then? I like how they can smash every heavy infantry came to their way
Yeah I like them
@@FightMeTotalWar Based
Mr fight me this video is very questionable.... At least for sieges
Wait who do you bring as Glatia if you shouldnt bring legionary's?
Ok from now on i will never use this GOOD units.(goodvidbtw)
Yo FightMe which country do you hail from?
The Netherlands
@@FightMeTotalWar that’s awesome so does that mean you’re freakishly tall?
@@FightMeTotalWar yoo im from Germany, moin
@@LeroxYTSuebians Moment
Club Levy= Best unit in the game
ABSOLUTELY!
Hahaha, Germans with bonking stick. Peak of German Engineering
secretly 9 units
Can you please do a video ranking attila factions
Can you do a video like this about Attila as well?
Great video, try post more often
Havent done this in a while.
#dayforgotwhatdayitisofskingforafleetreview.
Celtics…
Swordfollers best imo
Great video
Boii Sword Followers 🤩🤩🤩
No one likes the armored legio
F rome 2! rome 1 curbstomps it
Tribals Warriors are the most overrated unit in rome 2.
for me i have to say tarantine cav is the most overrated ...
it can be deadly but only in the hands of really good players .
also disciples of apedemak with their 0 armour and 25 shield value are very overrated ,
these guys get shot to pieces way before they can engage my main line infantry = minus 1220 denari unit for my opponent .
@@darkglobe406 Disciples have 55% missile block chance and 85 HP. they Eat arrows for breakfast as long as you never show sword side/ back to archers. Easily the strongest unit in the game.
@@pacifist3651 they still have 0 armour and they die like flies if under concentrated slinger/archer fire ...
every time somebody bring those into battle i shoot them to pieces -
by the time enemy player gets them to engage my main line they are already reduced to 40-50 (less than half) men in the unit ...
if i play kush and bring one of them i treat them as if i have elephants ,
i wait untill i deal with enemy skirmishers and use them late battle to break the enemy units .
but i don´t get the hype , these guys are totally overrated for their price ...
and so is kush as a whole .
of course if you are playing VS some newbie or a bad player you destroy him ,
but then again you can do that with pretty much any faction if you know what you are doing and you are facing inferior opponent .
@@darkglobe406 disciples are a high tier competitive unit for tournament players. They are tanker than you realize u bully bad players that take them bc they panic when getting shot turn around and try to flee. thats when they die. A good player with a disciple is very scary bc how much ammo it takes to kill just one unit of them and how quickly they do dmg to ur frontline its almost always guaranteed 2 chervons + ammo absorption value from enemy players. making it one of the most cost effective elites for the money in the game.
@@pacifist3651 no , not really ,
they are glass cannon ...
shoot them into non shielded side and they are f.k.ed , even if you shoot them into shielded side or in the front with 2 slinger units they will die pretty fast in my experience ...
and no it was not only when they turn around "panic and flee" , many times i was just shooting them in the front with slingers and they still die fast .
you need to be better than your opponent
to pull it off with disciples and make them cost effective ,
as i have said they are useless for random casual players (or bad/mediocre tournament players for that matter)
an old school elite player like greek iraklis or AK could destroy you even using pergamon or sparta
so that is kinda of a moot point ...
even citizen cav look like gods in the hands of an elite micro player .
anyway the overall quality of competitive R2 tournament gameplay deteriorated rapidly
from what it was 7-8 years ago ,
from the replays i see players are doing lots of micro mistakes and bad decision making , even in late stages like 1/4 or semifinals ...
it all comes down to how you use your units really and if you have a game plan and good enough micro to pull it off -
nobody decent rushes disciples straight into front lines at the start of a battle , you wait for your window of opportunity and than send them in ,
and yes then they can do much damage if enemy missile units have been already dealt with ...
needless to say they are also "very light" mass , so you need to worry a lot about enemy cavalry also , not just a missile fire .
for their price they just have too many weaknesses .