Cycloped: The Horse Powered Locomotive
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- Опубликовано: 27 июн 2024
- Neigh.
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Jago is so committed to inserting puns into his videos, that he made himself horse, so he could add one. 🐴
Agreed. Did he have this one ready for the day when he caught a cold, or did he contract the lurgey before, suddenly inspired, rushing to the editing room?
Yea he does often SADDLE himself with those puns but then i bet he does them on the HOOF
RUclips just prompted me to rate your comment 5/5 for being funny!
And all of that just to prove the neighsayers wrong…
@@thomilsvlog4544 I bridled at that remark 😧
The moral of this story is never listen to the neighsayers.
Harrumph!
“Not as bad as kidney stones.”
Ketamine just say neigh
I am not sure it is entirely accurate to say that horses never explode, or that they can't explode. However if your horse is exploding then you have some serious problems.
Colic comes to mind.
“How to deal with an exploding horse” sounds like a Python sketch
Sounds like something in the latest episode of The Boys.
You know the old Chinese proverb-“exploding horse, raining meat”. (Chinese readers will recognise that I almost didn't make that up.)
@@gracewenzel Pythons swallow exploding horses whole!
I can see why Cycloped isn’t usually brought up when we talk about the Rainhill Trials. A horse treadmill always felt like the sort of thing a man who really didn’t want to lose money on his horse traffic would submit into a contest.
For a while even if railways did the long hauls the number of local horse drawn stuff - inc short stage buses - must have increased
@@highpath4776The railways themselves owned horses for shunting and distribution purposes well into the 20th century.
Isn't it about time Mr Hazzard came up to north Derbyshire to do a video on the last years of George Stephenson and his burial place? He cannot argue that going so far north would make him feel dizzy because I've seen videos of his in places like Manchester and Edinburgh, and he didn't need extra oxygen in either of those locations!
I can't imagine why a horse-powered Wacky Races machine wasn't taken seriously 🤔
Fun fact:
Rocket’s biggest competitor, Novelty, was constructed by the Swedish inventor John Ericsson (1803 - 1889). It was the first locomotive built by a Swede, altough it was constructed in England. In 1980, a fully driveable replica of Novelty was built which can now be seen at the Swedish National Railway Museum in Gävle.
“How much horsepower can this machine generate?”
“One or two; depending on who you ask”
Given the inefficiency of putting all the horse's (or horses') effort through all that machinery (and also having to _haul_ the machinery as well as the payload) the answer should surely have been _"point_ one or two, depending on who you ask".
Of course, a horse at maximum exertion can output, if I recall, ~7 horsepower.
This is one reason the old French horsepower, CV (cheval vitesse if I recall) was more sensible IMO. That actually was 1CV=1horse pulling your carriage. At full throttle your horse is galloping, at low throttle it's just trotting.
But our horsepower was calibrated such that 1 was a sustainable steady output indefinitely for a horse, rather than a temporary gallop. And as a result galloping was somewhere between 6 and 8 horsepower. Or maybe it's 5.
Regardless! You get the counterintuitive situation where 400 horsepower does not mean the power of 400 horses. Thanks guys.
The Rainhill Trials were also to prove whether steam locomotives could actually haul significant loads at good speeds. As Jago points out, on the Stockton and Darlington they were confined to certain sections of the line, and worked at low speed. Brandreth had good reasons for his pessimism and if no steam engine had met the criteria, the Liverpool and Manchester could well have been horse worked, at least initially. And Cycloped was an attempt to use horse power as efficiently as possible. What changed the equation completely was Stephenson's invention of the multitubular boiler in the Rocket, which instantly increased the power to weight ratio by several times, and hence the attainable speeds.
Yes, the Trials' main concern was to prove that locomotives could work realistic loads reliably over the distance, which they had never had to do previously. Half the directors wanted to use well-proven stationary engines and rope haulage as they didn't trust locomotives; Rainhill was intended to prove their viability. There was actually a sixth entrant in the Trials, Ross Winan's 'Manumotive Carriage' powered by two strong men.
@@LMS2968 Interesting, I had not heard of the Manumotive, it seems to be absent from most sources! I suppose the closest equivalent would be the platelayer's trolley with its seesaw and gearing. Presumably it was able to move itself but not haul any load or reach any speed.
Besides the technical side, the Rainhill Trials were a collection of interesting personal stories as well. All that was happening at the various workshops in the run-up to the Rainhill Trials, during the days of competition, and the influence the outcome had on the further development of the railways.
I wonder if there is a movie made about the Rainhill Trials. Or a television series. It has all the right ingredients:
Trial and error, build-up to competition, different and interesting characters, technical break-throughs, accidents and setbacks during the competition, bad luck for some, good luck for others. Visual spectacles, and underdog winner.
Does anyone know of a cinematic retelling of those early days, and/or the characters in it ?
@@tubularap Nice idea! It would make a good story, TV programme or film. Funnily enough I recently watched a rerun of the 1980 TV programme on the Liverpool and Manchester 150 Cavalcade which had a little about the Rainhill trials. But sadly, I fear TV producers and film makers wouldn't touch it with a bargepole. The last BBC series about business was The Brothers in the 1970s, unless you count Howards Way or The Onedin Line. Engineering? Not sexy. No crime, no love interest (unless they invented some). I remember advocating that they should make a TV programme for the centenary of the 1915 Quintinshill disaster and then being sorry when they did; they ignored all the solid sources and focused on half-baked conspiracy theories from a 21st century perspective and in complete ignorance of the historical context.
Jago's videos are something worth waiting for
As an addendum, horses nearly outlasted steam engines on British Railways - maybe an idea for a future video, if you've not already covered it, as I expect some viewers may not know about them?
I don't have a citation to hand, but I understand this is part of the reason British railways (collectively, rather than the nationalised business) stuck with small wagons long after the continuous automatic brake was commonplace, because they were a good compromise between capacity and the maximum weight that a shunting horse could move comfortably.
Can I just take a moment to say that Exploding Horse would be a good name for a band?
''the machine was exhibited as an exercise''
for the horse I guess
Great video Jago. I was aware of the Impulsoria (shown in your video) which was trialled at Nine Elms, but had no idea about this earlier attempt. I’m guessing the copious amounts of manure were one of the other downsides! Hope you’re feeling better soon.
I imagine the judges also let it run again after failing the trials, just so they could laugh at how bad it was. At the very least, it's what I would have done.
Sometimes, competitions bring out interesting ideas. There’s nothing like unusual modes of transportation
The World's first passenger railway was the horse drawn line from Swansea to Mumbles
What about the Stockton and Darlington?
@@mirzaahmed6589 that was steam
And later
3:34 This invention reminds me of that footage of a camel being transported on a zip line.
Nice picture at 02:30 of the Little Eaton tramway, an early horse-drawn railway in Derbyshire. I look forward to a Jago video on that 😊
I’m from Rainhill and it’s always been a point of pride that our little station was the site of such a significant event. Would love to see you come and do a video on the station! There’s also a small museum dedicated to the trials in the local library.
Perhaps it was meant as a satirical comment on new-fangled machinery as against tried and trusted horse power? If it ain't broke sort of thing. A moment's thought would reveal that it must be more efficient to have the horse pull the load directly rather than via a treadmill and all the deadweight involved with that. But a great video, hope the voice gets better.
A good point. Horses were also used extensively for shunting.
If you're interested in the Rainhill trials, the Morrisons behind St. Helens hospital has two large paintings of the trials (no idea when they were painted) near the checkouts 🙂
i’ve been waiting for something like this, to recognise the early contribution of the horse on railways. thanks
Another benefit of the Cycloped would be the ready availability of fuel: basically, anywhere with grass. And there would be useful by-products!
As a horse person, I think you'd find that horses in regular heavy work, as this proposal was suggesting, need considerably better fodder than grass to keep them in condition. The energy requirements of a horse regularly pulling heavy loads long distances would mean feeding high energy fodder, such as oats, barley, corn, and sugar beet, or a not insubstantial quantity of fatty oils. While the horses would certainly eat mostly hay or grass, a not insignificant part of their rations would go to those high energy food sources if you wanted them to perform well at their job and maintain peak physical condition. Today, if I was feeding horses for that kind of activity, I'd expect to feed large quantities of high energy hay, alfalfa, and a high quality seed oil such as rapeseed or sunflower oil, perhaps supplemented with limestone flour if the calcium content of the hay was low, or if alfalfa was in short supply.
But was it a success?
Neigh!
"More than a Novelty". I see what you did there, Jago......😉
Both the B&O,and the New York and Harlem,used horses upon the initial opening of their respective operations! Steam power, as in England,was experimental at best! Later,of course,all lines,became steam powered! History strikes again! Thank you,Jago,for another side trip,into beginnings,and historical accuracy! Thank you 😇 😊!!
Great reference (?) - Long Shot kick da bucket a ska great from the Pioneers and covered by The Specials. And yes, about a renowned race horse dying in a race.
All we money gone a hell
Following our host: A pony walks into a bar(pub to some) and orders a drink. The bartender leans over and says "What did you say? I can't hear you." The pony replys, "Sorry I'm a little horse."
Was Mr Brandreth an ancestor of Giles, Im sure an anecdote on QI would be forthcoming if so.
Can't help thinking with this idea they were flogging an almost heard dead horse and certainly were up against the nay sayers. interesting video thanks Jago.
I understand that the 90's pop group Prefab Sprout made a song called 'Horsing Around' as a hat-tip to the cycloped inventor. Go check it out... 😊
Another great video from Jago, he may have sounded a little ho(a)rse, but he certainly knows his oats. A gentle canter into railway history, and there were, you could say "neigh" problems.
I'll get me coat.
I'll happily watch whatever tenuously linked horse footage you can give me.
Not footage, but hoofage on such an occasion, I suppose.
Oddly if Faraday and Edison/Telsa had been around a bit earlier would Electric Locomotives have been chosen ?
I would speculate that railways developed steam technology to the point that it could be used to generate electricity, therefore that couldn't have happened.
"I'd like to meet Stephenson the engineer,
And I'd like to meet Faraday and buy him a beer..."
@@caw25sha But wasnt most high pressure steam (specifically trevick - while adapted by Matthew Murray and Blenkinsop for Locomotive propulsion also ready for road propulsion (though heavy road locomotives were "banned" by turnpike owners), steam power for looms and spinning frames were adapted along with (if not marginally before) railway use. Arguably though it was Stephensons use of multitube boilers that brought the big efficiency for small space high pressure boilers)
depends if electricity had picked up then..
Since turns out you need a steam engine to generate it.
though might end up with possibly a very weird steam-electric drive.....
I always enjoy seeing clips from Locomotion in my hometown of Shildon. No idea why, maybe because ot doesn't happen very often.
Very inspirational, the Rocket was.
Definitely a story for the neighsayers.
Cycloped might not have had much success, but horses continued to be used on the railways until fairly recently, both for making deliveries and for shunting work.
The 16 ton goods wagon was the standard for many decades as it was what a horse could pull on a level gradient.
I would like to see a modern Cycloped made from carbon fibre with 3D printed parts. This would be a fun project for RUclips.
We still love you, Jago, even though you sound a bit 'Hoarse."
6:43Now that's a contraption I want to know more about! Is the "fireman" at the rear manipulating some device to get more speed out of the 🐎, or is he shovelling the waste products?
Pony express?
A pony is just a little horse.
#homonym
There's another version of this called the Impulsoria, it was even more limited
,,, and we would like to thank you for the horsey puns
Thankyou Jago. Always a joy to hear you - ho(a)rse or not…
When the UK had horses to pull vehicles and cargo before they were replaced by large vehicles and of course vehicles that run on petrol and diesel that is soon to be replaced by battery powered vehicles. Makes you wonder how hundreds of years went by with not having pollution and except for steam trains that dominated the railways.
Awesome stuff Jago, never knew about this one
Drove through Rainhill the other day, not directly by choice, though I did choose to ignore the diversionary route that would have meant not driving through. Quite nice but a bit too close to the M62 for my liking. On the plus side if you get the train that goes through Rainhill these days it oughn't be a pacer.
‘any machine is a smoke machine if you operate it wrong enough’
At least no one would have had any difficulty in calculating the horse power....
Actually, you'd only get a fraction of a horsepower out of it, because of all the resistance in the mechanism and the need to lug the mechanism around as well as the payload.
The efficient method would be to detach the harness from the cycloped and attach it directly to the wagons. Perhaps you could break up the cycloped and sell the wood to Stevenson to burn in Rocket.
Another Jago gem!
Friday viewing with JAGO
I really can't imagine cycloped actually going along a rail without somewhat frequent incidents. It's not a hard idea to grasp and there's a whole picture of the secured horse, but still💭. The horse falling through the treadmill wasn't an incident I pictured though.
I can't find the link to the video on Sans Pareil, but I'd like to as I've always rather liked that loco
Why, what an excellent video sir!
simple way to deduce the number of horses: what was the width of Rocket? it had to be the same to do the trials on the same track, so if it’s wide enough then two were used…if not, then one was used
We are sorry to announce that the train is delayed due to there being no hay on the line..
Now all we need is @gilesengineer to make a moving model of this.
~smiles~
Its a good thing this came when it did. I was starting to go into withdrawal.
But where's the video link?
Oh yes Jago - I've heard about this - @ 7:25 - sorry to hear that your feeling a little 'Horse' - Hope you get better soon - get yourself a carrot - you know what they say - an carrot a day - keeps the Doctor away - or should that be an 'apple'??? 🤔🚂🚂🚂
One horsepower!
And how does horsepower the measurement, relate to the power of an actual horse? Wikipedia claims that in 2023 a horse was measured as producing 5.7 horsepower, which is complicated. There's also metric and imperial horsepower.
Love that cartoon at the end.
With talk of horsepower for decades afterwards I thought horses were still being used. 😊
There's nothing in the rulebook that says a horse can't be a steam engine. The Air Bud principle.
Great video as usual Jago, but where is the link in the description that you mentioned?
Most interesting Video again. 4:49
Ha, this is such an odd idea! I think someone should attempt to recreate it!
Apparently, and unlike a steam locomotive, the horse having a mind of its own, decided to take a break for some fodder. Engines tend to be more predictable.
I often think that insufficient research was done on three crucial components of the horse-based technology: the transmission, the streamlining and the drugs.
Though I suppose if taken to its logical end, this might have compromised the non-explosion benefit.
Hey, can a horse be fitted with a supercharger? With the right harnesses, can they be installed in a Deltic configuration? So much unexplored design space.
Hope your voice comes back expediently.
Cycloped was _surely_ just it's designer having a laugh... Right?
He was before his time. Today we seem to have a slight energy and ecology crisis, and the railways can’t afford high speed (2) - Time for a re-introduction of horsepowered trains…! 😅
Hope that you are now feeling better!
That's just a guage converter wagon for horses
It's a bit daft to depend on friction to turn the treadmill. I'd quite like to see if you could train a horse to use bike pedals.
Time to build a replica! Perhaps named "Jago"?
A flying horse, on the other hand, might work…..🤔
One question that's not been answered by this video. If the horse on the treadmill had wings, would it take off?
just how much faster a bike is compared to running... can a horse machine be made that would do the same for ze horse?
As a sequel to your Crossrail 2 video, could you do one on Crossrail 3?
Hope you fully recover soon, Jago!
So what you're saying is they were expecting a gallop but in the end it was more of a canter?
At those sorts of speeds, more of a spanking trot - the sort of pace you'll get out of any good gypsy cob or trotter. They were expecting a canter - a gallop would be appreciably faster than 15mph.
I'm wondering Jago if you have any pun filled material for a video of the (not in alphabetical order) Stockton and Darlington Railway, or are you keeping that back for the 200th aniversary next year....
I wonder if any of the other contestants cried "foal"?
So youre saying Mr Brandreath was genuinely flogging a dead horse.
So thats where we got the term "Horse Power". Get well soon Jago.
You sound like the motive power today!
As a keen engineer with a life long interest in railways I am amazed that this is the 1st time I have heard about the Cycloped. 😲 I guess we are also close to repeating history now ... an electric car versus a H2 driven vehicle with a fuel cell versus an ICE using H2. Which one will win is not clear and it is not all about engineering either - For example 1 kg of hydrogen contains about the same energy as a gallon of gasoline. Today a fuel-cell electric vehicle with 1 kg of hydrogen can drive approximately 60 miles, compared to conventional vehicles, which get about 25 miles on a gallon of gasoline. Also Hydrogen is an excellent energy carrier with respect to weight. 1 kg of hydrogen contains 33.33 kWh of usable energy, whereas petrol and diesel only hold about 12 kWh/kg. So the enigneering is clear but I wonder what the outcome will be! 🤔 (Clearly battery powered cars have been pushed by a few people such as Elon Musk! )
The problem is that battery powerėd cars have pretty much only one thing in which they are worse than hydrogen vehicles, i.e. charging speed.
Otherwise, if I can charge it at home, electricity now is often priced at 0 during the day or close to that when sun is shining, and with more solar panels it will be like that. So most charging can be done nearly for free. Which though is not the case if you do a lot of long distance driving then it is different.
But hydrogen cars at the moment are 1) more expensive than battery cars 2) hydrogen itself is more expensive to refuel 3) infrastructure is lacking. Unless there is some huge breakthrough with hydrogen, it is hard to me to see how they can win over battery cars. Taking into account also the fact that batteries and charging times are improving for EVs, and prices are also going down.
Seems like at least in the Western world, in the short term now hybrids are winning. But they again have the battery inside, not fuel cell. But it will be interesting next 10 years or so.
Back in the day, horsepower was something else entirely
So - a sort of "HorSe1" kind of idea?
BTW if HS2 is HS2, what was HS1?
A tail of two horses, not exactly the mane attraction.
Didnt one of the other locos continue to be used after the event cause it was actually half competent?
unfortunately, courtesy of the image and commentary at 2:44
I have in my head, a Monty Pythonesque image of
exploding horses...
Your conclusion at the end is a bit lacking.
If you discount steam engines, horses _were_ already used on long distances, with the post.
It simply was a matter of logistics, to have changing stations & staff them. It already existed.
The difference & the great advantage of the railways over the normal post carriages is that wheels on the road cause much more friction than iron rolling over iron. As such the horse powered railways would have a massive advantage over the normal post.
Horses would tire less, go longer distances, consume less oats and/or be able to haul larger amounts of freight. Each of these would be a bonus. As horse drawn omnibuses & trams demonstrate this was done in cities.
Would it be enough to haul trains in this way until the advance of electric powered locomotives?
Who knows, a nice alternative/steampunk(horse punk?) history.
edit ps:
get well soon!
Good points. The problem for horses was that they couldn't go faster than a gallop and needed a flat surface to do this on, not like a railway with sleepers. So Cycloped was a reasonable attempt to get more speed and power out of horses. But in the end, the power was simply too low.
I've always felt that the biggest disadvantage with steam engines is that you can't make them into dog food when they reach the end of their useful lives.
You can make them into cans for the dog food though
And two locomotives left together overnight will not result in a new one appearing a few months later
@@PCMartin-yc6dr Might happen if both are in heat. (I know, I know, I'll get me coat.)
@@jaakkomantyjarvi7515 Aaaarggghh!!
Educational as ever, Jago. You don't horse around, domypu... Q: 07:06 which loco is this & where is it located...?
Also ran. 😂
Done horsing around?
Also ran, also canter, or also trot?
Maybe we should have kept horse powered vehicles and locomotives as they are lot more reliable and greener.