There is no better video that describes the pro/cons of diesel vs gas. As the owner of three Duramax diesels and now the owner of the same truck as yours, I agree with everything you have pointed out. Vehicles are like ice cream. There are no wrong flavors, the one you like better is the right one for you.
Unless you're a diesel fanboy, then your 400+ HP/Torque one ton gasser that has numbers which top diesels from less than 10 years ago couldn't tow a radio flyer up a 1% grade 😂
A diesel truck will be worth $8k-$9k more than the same year and model gas truck for around 5 years so the initial cost is not a loss, it will be recovered when you sell or trade. Factor that in and it is almost a wash.
@@lazyj7860exactly. every one of these videos always forget to mention this. you get that diesel premium back on the trade in. that would make this chart look very different. i think he should do a follow up to include purchase and sale price for the life of a gas vs diesel truck.
This is applicable for HD trucks. But I switched from gas to diesel in the half ton segment. Diesel in my case just made much more sense. I tow and the GM 5.3L is just too anemic. That's why I upgraded to a 6.2L Silverado. When I bought that truck the 3.0L was in its first year of service, so I decided to pass on it.But when I was looking to upgrade in to a new truck earlier this year I decided on the 3.0L Duramax for several reasons. The new LZ0 was much more powerful than the first gen LM2. The 3.0L also has a very good record of reliability. The 3.0L was a $795 option whereas the 6.2L was a $2195 option. Diesel in my area is typically cheaper than even 87 octane gas and for the 6.2L it's recommended that you use premium gas, which I always did. So fuel is significantly cheaper for the diesel. The fuel filter is a 30,000 mile service at a cost of about $30. Other than that, maintenance is no different than the 6.2L. I had the max trailering package in both trucks, so I have a 3.73 axle now instead of a 3.42. But the fuel economy is amazing with the diesel. Driving my new truck home to Alaska from Idaho I was getting in the 30s. My last fill up before getting home I got 34.1 mpg over a 579.9 mile drive. Towing I was getting 14 mpg. With the 6.2L I would get 8 or 9 mpg. For me the diesel was a no-brainer.
Great video. I have been saying this for 12 years now as i've personally owned 2 different gas Ram 2500s. First was a 12 Ram 2500 with the 5.7 Hemi and sold it with 203k miles on it and now own a 23 Ram 2500 with the 6.4 Hemi. I love it and it tows my Jeep beautifully.
Great video@@AdventureRocks! @kmonto1971 If you want to buy a truck that you plan on keeping for 10+ yrs (til the wheels fall off assuming it's not a lemon), towing 9-10k pounds max, and towing 10-20 times a year, would you still lean towards the gasser? As a smart guy but 100% new to towing, the premium benefits of the diesel are attractive (esp the truck stops w a 30' travel trailer in tow) certainly seem like the safer bet, and with a 10+ yr time horizon the money difference sounds like a wash or leans towards the diesel. Do you two reach the same conclusion?
@@keithellis5297 If it wasn't for modern diesels with all the DPF issues longterm, then I'd spend the extra $$ and go diesel. But, given the 10-20x per year (weekend warrior like myself)...and assuming mostly shorter trips...I'd go with gas if it was me. But, if you were to say 15K GVWR and more frequent towing I'd lean more toward diesel regardless.
@@AdventureRocks Thanks much! Analysis paralysis is such a real thing :) Aside from tow frequency and GVWR, do you think someone new to towing and especially longer travel trailers should just lean towards a diesel regardless? That's probably the last subjective question. I lean towards no since most any newish model year will have the great cameras to help out, but at the end of the day I don't really know what I don't know.
@@keithellis5297 Not necessarily. But, I would definitely would stay away from 1/2 ton trucks. When I started out a decade ago RVing, if I had just bought a 3/4 ton gas truck upfront, it would have saved me from buying at least 2 other trucks and learning the hard way. The 3/4 ton gasser is really a versatile truck overall and more affordable than the diesel. The gasser will have about 700-1000 lbs more payload too. One caveat going diesel is you may be maxed out on your payload if you do a 3/4 ton diesel. A 10K travel trailer may have a tongue weight of 1.5K lbs once fully loaded. Add your passengers and gear...you might be 2.2K lbs or higher...and that's right about a 3/4 ton diesel avg payload (some of the newer ones increase GVWR to give slightly more payload).
I've had a Ford 6.7 powerstroke for nearly 12 years until the engine blew up at 102k miles. However, during that time, I've spent more money maintaining it than I expected. An oil change for example, 13 quarts for the diesel vs 8 for the 6.6L gas every 5k miles adds to the cost. Buying DEF all the time, Emission system sensor failures and replacements, clogged EGR repair, and finally a catastrophic engine failure with a broken exhaust valve where the only option to fix it was to replace the engine for $21k. There is a price to pay for owning one and it goes up the longer you own it.
Well I've had numerous ram diesel trucks well past 100k without any of those problems. A diesel with catastrophic failure at barely 100k miles is only a norm with powerstrokes. I'm not writing this statement to ruffle feathers, but it's been true in my experience.
The REAL advantages to diesel are: Grades: Less stress on the powertrain/transmission when tackling large, long uphill runs. Elevation: The turbos make it almost a non-factor, whereas gas engines will gave to work quite a bit harder and won't provide as much performance. Exhaust Braking: Going down grades, this will be a big help, especially with heavier trailers (13K+), and will put less stress on your braking system (although the engine breaking on modern gassers has gotten pretty good). Refueling: This is actually the big one for most people that they often don't even think about. Lot more accessibility for diesel pumps that will fit your setup and you don't have to fuss with, well, all the other drivers going to the gas pumps. With all that said, I still went with a gasser (Ford 7.3). I'm towing less than 12K less than 10 time a year and won't be taking any long trips out west and/or up into the mountains until after I retire (no time). Can't stand all the emissions crap on modern diesels and use my truck as an almost-daily driver so gas made the most sense for me.
You kidding about the pump? Lot of gas stations don’t offer the green pump. Also basically all the 1/2 ton gas engines now are turbos with 500+ torque. Bottom line is get what you like. I hate the smell and sounds and harsh riding unloaded of the kerosene Mobil ESPECIALLY with all the EPA junk on it. If you tow all the time it would make sense.
Before I got my first diesel truck, I did the same thing you did with a spreadsheet to show how many miles I would have to drive to break even. I put about 20K a year on mine, so I'll break even a little bit sooner. I think the newer gasser trucks are more than capable to tow campers/loads up to about 14K as a 5th wheel and more as a conventional trailer. But, when you start getting above the 14K as a 5th wheel, or more weight over all, that's where the diesel truck will shine. And yes, your premium benefits are the ones that helped push me into a diesel truck...esp the truck lanes and the exhaust brake. Great video with lots of great and accurate info for all of us.
Thank you. Great point! That weight number can really sway the difference when it comes to the gas vs diesel experience. 14-15K range vs 6-10K range would make a considerable difference to me in how it handles with the RPM, torque, etc.
Great content. Your viewership comments are so valuable. For the lack of use of my gasser, and the occasional use for local towing of 8,000 lbs. Of RV, gas is the answer. To each their own. Agree that DEF and maintenance costs would only increase your spreadsheet valves, but much of that could be speculative. Nice job presenting clearly.
Nice work, sir. Have owned and continue to own gas-powered trucks. That said, I am also a diesel pickup aficionado, running several diesels over 30 years. I would observe that although costs and economics can be or are important, many people are willing to pay more for the additional performance of a modern turbo-diesel truck. Most vehicle purchases are not purely rational, but also emotional/feel good/want vs. need. 🤷🏻♂️😁. I call it "performance", you call it "premium experience"... two ways to say essentially the same thing. Agreed sir.
Well definitely helped lol.. I drive 35k a year in F150 at 21mpg, and kept looking at the 3.0 duramax claiming 28-30.. thank you for the breakdown of information
The owner of our local Ford dealer whom I’m friends with told me over 2 decades ago there is no circumstance where the consumer will save money by purchasing a diesel truck. You’re spot on in your analysis. The one caveat is the Hotshot scenario. Remember at 100k a year mileage the truck will have to be replaced every year or two for reliability purposes which will lower savings and resale will go down on an high mileage truck.
Thank you. That's a great point about the hotshot scenario. I didn't think about that 2-3 year upgrade cycle potentially. Another viewer commented that they hotshot with a gas truck, so that further validates your point there.
Its even worse than what you present. That extra 10K has additional opportunity cost. That $10K is tied up in the truck, so you can't invest it. If you put that $10K in a 10% growth stock, after 5 years you would have lost about another $6K from losing that investment opportunity. So the diesel engine cost is really a little over $16K more expensive over 5 years, when factoring loss of interest gains.
Good point. Though that $10,000 cost is actually higher. Sales tax, at the very least, and additional interest if financed. Could be closer to a $13,000 initial cost.
I have the same exact truck as yours. Searched on line for 9 months on AutoTrader and had it shipped to me in Montana. Super truck for pulling in the mountains.
Very few people buy a diesel truck for fuel economy. We all buy them for the convenience, power, torque, increased peace of mind and towing capacity. I went from a ram 2500 diesel to an F150 5.0 gas. I made sure it was set up with everything I needed to tow my Imagine camper and Malibu wakeboard boat. If I had the choice to make that decision again I would have stuck with the Ram diesel. The power, the convenience and the towing capacity is something I desire to get back to at a future date. I’m thinking an older ram 2500 as a second vehicle non-daily driver because I tow less than 5000 miles per year. I love the breakdown you did. Thanks for sharing!
My first diesel vehicle was a 1971 220 D Mercedes. Diesel fuel cost was at least half that of gas. Moving forward to Ford diesels in 1984 1985 diesel fuel was a little more but still less than gas. Today my 15th + diesel truck. Have 2024 Chevy 3.0 turbo diesel. Gets over 30 mpg when not towing and from 12 to 15 mpg pulling 3700 lb trailer. Same 495 ft lbs of torque as V8 diesel. So I have many arguments to your opinions. Just love diesel. John
I'm with you. I have a 2024 Chevy LZO 3.0 diesel and you are correct, the mileage is incredible - and you still get maximum torque. Great for a daily driver / weekend worker. I previously had a RAM 3500 Cummins DRW - awesome machine and a gasser could never come close to it. No longer tow heavy because I got rid of the fifthwheel camper and bought an RV - with a Cummins diesel motor! Diesel is superior all around. Costs are immaterial. In my mind - a truck is not a truck unless it is powered by diesel. The United States missed the boat on small displacement diesel engines. as mainstream choice of powertrain. Europe got it right! Love diesel!
Great video, you nailed it on the head. I currently own a cummins and im switching to a truck just like yours. Like you said though, it is an experience. That torque, exhaust brake, a night and day difference. Massive smile on the face. But boy do you pay for that experience. Maintenence costs, In the shop for emmisions issues, def, 2 head gaskets, new turbo, egr, transmission ive had enough. Im a weekend warrior and mainly city driving so the diesel has got to go. Thanks for all the time you put in 👍
I drove a 93 ford diesel for 30 years and just changed the oil and filters. It was great. I then bought a 2017 f350 King Ranch that comes out to pull a trailer and otherwise stays in the garage. The power, and comfort still amazes me. I'll stick with my diesel for now. I think it will last the duration.
I did a similar spreadsheet about 10yrs ago, but based it on mileage, not time, and included the diesel premium. Mainly because all scheduled periodic maint is based on mileage. I calc'd fuel, oil and fuel filters, oil changes. Fuel mileage was unloaded, knowing the diesel would benefit when weighted down. Not calc'd was catastrophic breakdown of engine or trans. The breakover point was at about 140k miles, whether that is @5yrs or 20yrs of ownership. After that, diesel costs less to own.
When I was configuring and buying my F450, the fleet manager ran the numbers, and we determined that the break even point for my mix of towing and running loaded was 300,000 miles for the diesel. I bought the V10 which averages 7mpg towing a toy hauler at 18,000 pounds, or 12 mpg with about 1500 pounds in the bed. If I don’t need the load capacity I take a smaller vehicle, sometimes with a small trailer. The oil changes and fuel filters are considerably less expensive for the gas engine. My diesel Jeep averaged 29 mpg with 3 fuel stops in 1500 miles on a recent trip through the northwest. It gets 25mpg towing a 5x8 enclosed trailer. The gas Highlander V6 gets 19 mpg pulling the same trailer. My actual numbers agree with your findings. Both the Jeep rated 240hp and the Highlander rated 295hp have adequate power for passing and climbing grades.
You raise a great point. And it reminds me that fleet managers would know given they a have a fiduciary responsibility to deliver the most cost effective to their tax payers or employer. Their job is literally on the line based on how they run the numbers.
There is one big factor you missed. The vehicles value when it's traded for the next one. Diesel cost a lot more new. The diesel is worth a lot more used though. So now rerun all the numbers but lose the 10k upgrade cost because it's recovered in the sale.
Thank you for bringing that up, and great point! I've heard the resale argument used by car dealerships as negotiating power, but I've struggled to see it firsthand when I've sold my previous diesel trucks. Maybe it's because I didn't keep them as long, but I ended up losing a proportional amount with the depreciation once I factored in that initial premium cost. Maybe a case by case basis there with longer ownership playing a role, especially pre DPF/modern era when diesels didn't have all the emissions issues longterm. Thank you again.
I just bought a 22 Duramax used with 30k miles a couple months ago and that is what I discovered as well in the used market. I searched for a few months for the truck I wanted and looked at diesel and gasser. In the end I noticed the trend that most of the trucks I looked at, in the 30-40k miles and less range, whether diesel or gas were very similar in price. The main difference was only the mileage, the gassers had anywhere from 10-20k and the diesels had 30-40k on them in the same price range. I ultimately ended up with the diesel because I found a good price with lower than average miles on it from what I had been seeing. Buying used definitely makes a difference on the 10k price difference he is referring to, from my personal experience.
I’m on my 3rd diesel dually in 25 years. In 1999 diesel was way Cheeper than gas. And the upgrade engine cost was 4K or under. But resale value has enabled me to get a new diesel. Overal in the last 25 years I have saved money but am just now getting close to the break even point. And will probably start going negative soon. However the hauling experience is going to be worth the difference.
I've spent 12 grand on repairs for the 2015 duramax 3500 with the def and cp3 repairs alone and the truck has 139 thousand miles! the 2012 and newer diesels are not the same anymore , at least in the emission restrictive states
on the new ones, not only are the oil change is more expensive. You also have the fuel filters, and the def. So unless you’re using it like a diesel needs to be used I agree completely with this guy.
I have an '03 duramax with over 160, 000 mi I guess I made the right choice for the diesel option putting money back in my pocket and it hasn't cost me anything except regular maintenance and a couple sensors over its life and its still running strong in the injectors were done under warranty back in the day. But with that kind of savings you're showing in fuel that will pay for injectors and I'll still have money in my pocket good job on the stats.
I currently have a 2023 GMC 2500 Duramax. I dont daily it. I work from home and have a 2nd vehicle. In almost 2 years of ownership, i have put about 15K miles on it almost exclusively towing our 36ft TT or our 20 ft box trailer w/toys in it. Due to the pretty limited mileage that I use it, im not super exposed to the maintenance cost. Mostly went desiel for comfort while towing and ease of refueling with a trailer on. Not married to it though. Would be interested in trying a gasser one day.
100% agree with you. If you are pulling everyday heavy loads (equipment) for work the diesel makes sense, but the occasional heavy pulling, gas is the way to go.
And this same analysis applies to EVs. I looked at a Model Y in 2022 and the cost was $60,000. I then looked at a Chevy Equinox which was similar in size and comfort and it was $32,000. When I did the break-even analysis I calculated I would have to drive 420,000 miles to recover the additional $28,000 initial cost. I live in the PA road salt zone and cars are lucky to see 200,000 miles here before they succumb to rust.
A few factors, diesel w/ Def, cost of oil changes. I too have owned diesels my whole life. First gmc gas this year that 6.6 is awesome. Now I have only pulled 30k 2 times in this last 15k miles. My average weight is 21k pulling backhoe, or 18k with hay. Most of my miles are loaded. Very impressed with the gas engine by gm. Great vid but maintenence is part of the game in cost effective.
I tow about 5k miles year using my 08 V10 F250. Works fine for my needs without the worry of high repair bills of a diesel. Just put in gas and oil changes every 5k miles and it's good!
Good Video. Several other considerations are, engine size, you can get a smaller diesel engine like the 3.0 GMC as compared to the big block gasers. Also need to look at the rear end gear ratios, as this will make difference. I think the break even point for the diesel is about 100K, but it all depends on your usage. Most people can’t justify the cost. It’s like 4 wheel drive, most can’t cost justify the additional cost until you get into a snow storm and you are 500 lies away ground home, then you will always get it. There is also the ‘“boys and their Toys” factor.
The crazy thing about a lot of diesel truck owners is that they don't even come close to fully utilizing the capabilities of their truck. It's just cool to say your truck is a diesel. My brother has a diesel, but he rarely uses his truck just to commute. It's mostly used to tow a large 5th wheel rv. Unlike my dad, who put over 100k miles on his diesel truck with only towing a 4000lb trailer 4 times. He drove his truck 90% of the time empty, and he was the one in it. He still thinks he is saving money driving his diesel.
Few things. The $10K diesel option is usually returned at trade-in time, so that's a wash. You missed the maintenance costs between the two, with diesel being much higher than gas. And, diesel gels in the cold winter requiring more attention and maintenance than gas (which doesn't freeze). Issues; okay, you can buy an extended warranty out to 100K miles to cover the drivetrain, but after that, you are on your own for any diesel repairs. And, with the way diesels are so choked with all of the emissions stuff on them, I'd say there's a really good chance of a major repair bill after 100K. I'm a Ford guy (my 2023 F150 with the 3.5L ecoboost and 10 speed transmission is a monster towing our 7,200 lb travel trailer), but look at the Godzilla motor and 10 speed transmission in the F250... massive power and ability to handle up to around 18K towing. I'll close by saying towing above 15K, the diesel starts winning, just because of performance... but, man oh man, under 15K, these new trucks with big gas motors and 10 speed transmissions are the way to go, I think. This is creating a dilemma for us deciding our next camper... we're actually looking at staying under 15K so we can get a gas truck instead of diesel. Good topic to discuss! I'd appreciate any feedback if I'm missing anything. Cheers! Pete in Arizona - KI7LIL
100% agree with your first statement regarding trade value. The Diesel retains that value at the time of trade or resale. I typically tow about a 20k gooseneck and have had diesel for the last 25 years. I will also agree with the emissions on the newer trucks, traded one in just for that reason once the extended warranty was up.
@@peterkunka2694 this is correct. Re: costs returned (partially) at trade. However, if financing it should also be noted that there are increased carrying costs not covered as well. Not to push anyone off, just trying to be as close to accurate as possible wrt to diesel/gas. Diesels do have their place. If one is towing 5-10x a year, I believe they are better with gas. Imo from a cost perspective.
@peterkunka2694 I just finished an extensive 5 month long search for my next truck. I looked at both new and used HD trucks. At least in my area used diesel’s absolutely do not bring anywhere close to what you pay for them up front. At best you might get 1/2 of that 10k back but it’s definitely not a wash. Again this is in my area.
Loved your video. I had one more perspective to support you. In the case of the "hotshot" driver towing 100k per year. After 5 years, that's 500k miles and both the engine and transmission will likely require major maintenance costs by then. My own experience also started out with the diesel rigs, mostly the Chevy Duramax's. I loved many of the good "experiences" you mentioned but not only did I pay the "premium" costs to purchase them, I was concerned there would be potential major costs if either the diesel engine or Allison transmission needed work. My vehicles have always been purchased used and so I was dealing with higher mileage vehicles. I too concluded the gas engine choices would be my cheaper option in the long run even while towing our RV trailer. Individual trips over the mountains and back costs more in fuel, but the peace of mind and overall costs have been cheaper for me now that we've switched back to gas. Thank you.
Just made the switch to a 2024 Sierra Denali 2500 HD Duramax 6.6. Still mapping out operational costs. Here in Detroit diesel is running +$0.40 over unleaded. But the V8 2500 HD requires premium; which right now is +$0.90 over diesel. In my case I bought used; 18k on the clock for several thousand under bluebook with a clean history. Cost analysis between V8 and diesel will vary significantly based on your area, purchase/engine premium price of the vehicle, mileage driven, etc. It comes down to your situation if a diesel makes sense to you. Focusing on only the HD diesels (6.0L +) and not the smaller ones; also the V8 Gas Equivalent of the HD Diesel...... If you tow/haul frequently, tow/haul heavy loads (+8000k lbs), travel hilly/steep terrain, operate a plow, or simply want to experience everything an HD rig can offer; diesel is the choice for you. Diesel engines can easily go 250k miles and the engine will typically outlast the body and interior. They tow beautifully even on grade. With exhaust braking you save wear on your brakes while traveling/towing downgrade. Generally speaking, MPG, especially while tow/hauling is better than the gas counterpart. Resale value is typically higher than the gas counterpart; absorbing some, if not all of the diesel upgrade cost on a new vehicle. The drawbacks to diesel.....There is more maintenance involved with diesels; DEF fluid, filter changes, oil cost than with gasoline. The availability of diesel may be limited in your area. In many areas the cost of diesel fuel is less than premium. But you will have to factor in maintenance costs. If you tow/haul infrequently, tow/haul moderate loads (-8000k), plan on using for light duty the majority of the time, travel less hilly/steep terrain, and don't plan on keeping the vehicle over 100k miles or 5-7 years then a gasoline V8 would be the better option for you. Gas engines go roughly 100k miles before showing issues or failure. If you plan on disposing of the vehicle around that mileage you won't benefit from the longevity of a diesel engine. This will save you money at purchase; be it new or used. As a side note; if you downgrade from a 1 ton / 3/4 ton to a half ton truck; you can get offroad and track equipped gas engines. Which is right for you? That depends on your situation and preference. For me the choice was clear. I wanted the maximum capability to tow a trailer. I wanted the maximum performance while towing or hauling. The fuel costs with maintenance factored in was a wash. And I plan on keeping my truck past 250k miles. Yea, it can be a pain in the a** to navigate tight parking lots but the 360 camera comes in clutch.
No arguing your data; makes perfect sense. My decision was on the 6.2L V8 OR the 3.0L Duramax. The minimax upcharge was about $4k in 2023 (arguable because the 6.2L was hard to find and dealers charged a PREMIUM for it over the 3.0). With the MPG variance on these engines (9 towing with the 6.2 and 16 with the 3.0), the "savings" delta becomes a was (mostly). Mostly, because as others have said: DEF, Oil (freaking DexosD must be made with Manatee oil). I've owned diesels since my 2001 7.3L Powerstroke, so I just prefer them; but you're right . . . from a finance perspective: no way.
I am a huge fan of the ls line of engines. But when engineers started playing with afm dod and so on the reliability of that 200k + engine dropped to around 100k -. Chevys were eating the rear two cylinders out at between 80k and 130k I was averaging 13mpg in a crew cab 4wd. I have a dodge Cummins 3/4 ton 4wd crew cab and with a little work it gets 25 mpg. My oil changes are cheaper but I went from royal purple and a ac delco filter to cat oil and a cat filter (I work there so I get the discount.) yes initial start up was pricier but the maintenance is cheaper, and I’m not looking at having to buy an engine between 80 and 130,000 miles.
One must factor in that money costs money. The extra 10K invested represents either money you have to pay finance costs on or (in the case of a cash buyer) money you could invest and achieve a return on. Plug a finance charge into your spreadsheet and diesel gets even harder to justify. As a business owner of 5 diesel trucks they are quite expensive to maintain as well (if you can get one out of a shop for under 1K consider yourself lucky). My last truck purchase was a gasser and while it’s a bit “doggy” while towing it’s become my favorite daily driver. Unloaded and unburdened by a trailer, the mileage is similar and the similar horsepower makes them just as peppy to drive around.
I have a 2023 LZ0 diesel Chevy 1/2ton just came back from a trip to Tennessee I live in NY round trip was 2200 miles I was towing a 14 foot V-nose trailer with two touring Harleys with a lot of gear 5,000 pounds total I was averaging between 14 to 17.5 mpg used 5 boxes of blue platinum def 20.00 a box. My friend that went with us also has a 14 foot V nose with one Harley in it total for him was around 3200 pounds he was towing it with a Dodge truck 1/2 ton with a hemi he was averaging around 8 mpg spent quite a bit more money on gas than I did. I factor the def in also. So the advantages of a diesel it is a torque monster. It’s fun to drive but it is a pain in the ass to find diesel and you have to put def in when you’re hauling something heavy. It goes through it like water! So would I but another diesel NO! (Just my opinion)
It’s crazy how much more the lZ0 guzzles def vs lm2. I did a similar trip towing my viper across country 3k miles, similar weight as you and only had to fill up the tank twice.
@@gabe9158 the LZO has a second DEF injector to help with emissions and in theory a more reliable def system but it uses so much more when towing it’s kinda ridiculous. The extra power sounds nice though! How’s your mpg when not towing? My 22 trailboss gets 25-26.5 when going 75mph, more if I go slower. So far over the 40k trouble free miles I’ve average 22.3 mpg with just under 9k of that towing.
I did a comparison between two 2021 F250 Lariats, one with diesel (no high output), the other with a 7.3 gas engine. The price difference with average miles was $6,000. I agree with your assessment on which truck makes more sense. If I were buying new, it would be an F250 with the 7.3 gas engine. New diesels have way too many issues with added emissions, failing fuel pumps, and expensive repairs.
You are right, you won't save money but having the peace of mind that you can easily tow uphill with the truck not straining and get super braking power with the exhaust brake may be worth it. Also, you will recoup some of the diesel engine premium when you sell it or trade it. Look at any 5 plus year old truck and the diesel is worth several thousand more than the same gas truck.
I live In PA and in my area diesel is .05 cheaper than regular 87 gas. If you run premium diesel is significantly cheaper at the moment. Add in the resale value and the piece of mind of effortless towing my fifth wheel, I didn’t think twice about trading my 2015 Cummins on a 2024 Cummins HO.
Bloomsburg Sheetz. Paid $3.25 for diesel tonight. 87 was $3.29 and premium was $3.69…..the last 6 months I have paid less for diesel than gas. First time in 10 years of owning a diesel.
@@one24mikethis sheetz is biodiesel up to 20% used cooking oil which i had been running all spring and summer and switched over to regular diesel now and I have been getting about 1mpg better so not much different but I also don't drive mind thru the winter so I don't want gelled fuel sitting there but did enjoy the savings all summer
It’s always been a pretty straight forward thing. You pay considerably more for a truck with a diesel engine. The fuel savings don’t recoup that unless you are hauling heavy loads full time. Other than that, if you constantly drive with heavy loads up and down in altitude you need the torque of a diesel.
Some times you just have to buy what you want! Which is what i did, my first diesel, used, love it. Most powerful truck I've ever had and the exhaust brake is awesome. I did the same cost comparison and knew I'd never get a break even, but i didn't care. Yolo right!! Lol
That doesn’t account for maintenance, DEF, insurance, taxes or repairs. Many localities will tax diesel HD trucks as commercial trucks. My county does.
I went through 3 gas powered trucks all three were small V-8 short bed 2 wheel drive. After my 1st truck I kept telling myself the engines were to small , the beds were 2 short and I was tired of getting stuck in places. I needed 4 wheel drive. When shopping the salesman would alway offer me a great deal on these trucks and that's why I bought them, then regretted it later. In 2000 I finally bought the truck I really wanted and needed. I purchased a 1997 F250, super cab, long bed 4X4, 7.3 liter power stroke diesel. The truck had about 80,000 miles on it. It's now 2024, I still have the truck, it has 276,000 miles on it. The transmission went out at 212,000 miles and it sat for 18 months before I could afford to replace it. I bought a new KIA Sportage when the transmission went out and because of the gas mileage and it was much easier to park in the city the KIA became my every day car. That took me a while to get used to. My truck also spends a lot of time idling. I have a small farm on the other side of the state (Washington) and my dog travels with me. When I'm out working on the place my dog is in the truck staying cool in the A/C so my truck may idle for the whole day when not being driven. I don't think a gas engine could take idling 8 hours a day in 90 and 100 degree heat and running the A/C. The gas engine would probably over heat it also just would not last in my opinion. My diesel pickup is old and does not pull the hills like these new trucks especially when towing and does not have all the new electronics but it still runs like a champ. I honestly believe it has lower maintenance costs also. I've replaced one water pump, 5 alternators, the wiring that runs inside the valve covers for the glow plugs and injectors and all the injectors and most of the flow plugs, the transmission, 4 batteries and a lot of tires and brakes. In a 27 year old truck that I've owned for 24 years I'd say that is pretty good especially considering some of the loads its hauled and pulled. Could a gas engine pickup truck do all that this long with as little maintenance...I don't think so. If you are going to keep your truck for a long time and work it...I think the diesel is the way to go. Will the new diesels do as well? Only time will tell. I also believe the regen systems on the new diesels will hurt their longevity and increase their maintenance costs.
Well spoken and great data. I love my high mileage diesel, which I bought used and had to repair before using. Pulling with the diesel is hands down a better experience. Echoing some of the comments, maintenance is a LOT more $$$$. New diesels use that DEF crap, which the cost might be negligible? Thanks for the comparison!
I did a similar analysis back in the 80's before I bought a gas truck. I am currently wanting a HD AT4x 6.6 gasser but dealers only stock diesel. I have also heard the maintenance is more for diesel. Good choice for antenna and bed cover.
Great video. It doesnt matter what fuel mileage it gets the cost of DEF, fuel price as well as maintenace for fuel filters more oil capacity for oil changes, now factor in cost of repairs. diesels do tend to hold value at re sale compated to a gas significantly tho. I still think a Hybrid gas 3/4 or 1 ton will be the game changer. Gives you the comparible fuel mileage too a diesel, and added power while towing. Plus i like the idea of being -40C and my hybrid motor turns on and instantly warms up cab and gas motor prior to battery depletion. Your diesel "might" turn on that day. But it damn sure better be plugged in, high quality fuel or fuel additive as well as cycle the glow plugs.
Great points, but keep in mind that when you go sell it, the gas trucks are not as desirable (and depreciate more) than diesels. Most HD truck buyers want diesels, which is why used ones are a lot pricier than their gas counterparts. Again, great points. Thanks for doing the research to put this together. Cheers,
Nice video. I too am a spreadsheet nerd. Haha. One thing that will affect the numbers is looking at trade in or difference in value at the five year mark. Some of that up front premium is going to come back in higher used value. It’s hard to factor into a spreadsheet since it’s not guaranteed inputs, especially when comparing new trucks but a set of injectors could be more $$$ than a new engine in the gas truck.
I have owned Chevy, ford and ram 2500 all were gas. I hear the diesel talk about power and grades. But the 7.3l ford gas Is an animal I think further making the conversation interesting. I haul more than I tow so the gas trucks have always suited my needs. Thoughts?
Great content, but your entire reasoning is the $10,000 upgrade for the diesel engine. As some have commented, the resell offsets that upfront cost. In addition, it wasn't always $10K, I paid under 8 for the upgrade to Diesel, and on a recent purchase, for a 1500 Silverado the Diesel upgrade is $1000. Also with the 1500, gas mileage goes to 30MPG or better on the freeway with 24 around town. It really changes the dynamic when you look at how the cost is going down. Lastly, some areas, diesel is cheaper than gas.
I think it’s also important to consider the cost of DEF, which should be proportional to fuel consumption and easy enough to estimate. I’ve tracked every maintenance cost to my 2018 2500HD Duramax since new and am sitting at about 167k now. I’ve figured out that the cost of operation FOR ME will shake even at around 15mpg (depending on fuel cost disparity). I think a lot of people really want to hold onto the diesel resale thing, but that’s a wash in either direction…you don’t pay the premium up front, have to pay the interest, etc…not a factor for me. Pulling power…sure, if you really NEED it, will be better with a diesel.
You forgot to add the scenario of when you delete the nannies in a modern diesel truck, you add over 10MPGs. 😅 Thanks for validating what I suspected. I was on the fence and had come to this realization, but it's nice to see numbers in many scenarios to back it up. I won't break even for another 5-6 years or so (I tow a 40' 5th wheel about 10k mile a year, so I'll actually get there)...but at least I'll get there!
With DYI maintenance, diesels can actually be a bit cheaper on regular service items. In bulk, you can buy diesel engine oil and filters for about the same as gas oil and filters. For example, 2 gallons of Mobil1 and a gas engine oil filter will run you about $60-$70. This is more or less what I pay for a filter and 3 gallons of Rotella in bulk. Even just on Amazon, 3 gallons of Rotella are only slightly more than Mobil1 for gas. Emissions servicing is a point against diesels, but then there or no tune ups or GDI to contend with. This can somewhat balance out. For the biggest point for diesel, you can save massively on brakes with diesels because of exhaust brakes. For me, brakes and rotors last 3-5x as long. Over the life of the truck, you will save thousands just on brakes. Even if you pay slightly more for other maintenance items, you will get that money back on the braking end of things purely because of an exhaust brake. On the negative side for diesel, repairs will be much more. No way to make light of that. If you have an EGR go out, a turbo failure, or an HPFP grenade, be prepared to pay big time. These are not certain to be issues for everyone, but it can be issues for some. So, you got to be up on maintenance and always have money ready for when something does happen.
I agree 100% 20yrs ago when I crunched the numbers and Deisel was less than gas the break even point of fuel cost was 100,000miles for the extra cost of the deisel engine. That’s not even looking at the cost of oil changes and maintenance.
I tend to keep my trucks around 15 years and drive a little more than you do. Believe in this scenario with a diesel engine expected to get around 450K miles out of the engine, this will not happen with a gas engine. My last gas truck lasted a little over 150K and I had already had to rebuild the transmission at the 124K mile mark and I did tow. I, like you., have owned both and would not return to a gas engine again just due to longevity of the truck engine and the additional torque/power from the diesel.
Ive had four diesel pickups, two 7.3s and two duramaxs newest was an 05, and it seemed all i did was work on either one, with repairs being expensive even doing the work myself, now i have two chevys with 8.1/Allison combo with 4.10 gears and they not only pull better than any of those older diesels stcok tuning, but low maintenance and for what i do which is mostly farm work and occasional trips across the state, id rather pay for gas. The 8.1 is surprisingly more efficient than i expected it actually gets double digits empty😂😂, 11-13 mpg Towing is 7-8 mpg Hauling hay never overloaded😂😂😂 5 mpg. Both trucks have been very reliable. But if i were pulling everyday for a living, i would have a diesel again!
GREAT point. Yes, longer years typically = more mileage and certainly would see that over 10 years. The diesel gets diminished with the premium cost upfront, but I really think if you want that premium experience diesel is the way to go regardless. Otherwise the gas will likely be more affordable. Very much a personal decision based on your use.
use of the vehicle is the most important... went from a Tacoma to a ram 2500 with the 6.4l hemi ... I'm running a pop top truck camper . I needed the payload more than the towing, plus the ability to do the majority of my own maintenance and repairs. Also coming from a Tacoma on 35's to a ram on 35's ... the ram gets way better milage. just drove cross country from PA to CA and averaged 17-18 mpg (no truck camper) .. the Tacoma would get 10-12 due to the weight height of the tires and bad gearing.
Awesome video! Two other things that came to mind for me. What would be the difference in value of the two trucks at the end of 5 years. In other words the diesel truck cost more initially, but it's probably worth more at the end. Secondly I've never owned of diesel but I understand routine maintenance is considerably more expensive. Cost of oil changes for example.
You are right about experience. It would be like making a spreadsheet comparing RV travel over staying in a hotel. When consider RV depreciation you are way better off staying in hotels but is it the same,no?
I would be curious to see what the 3 L baby Duramax cost saving to gas would be. I know it is not a heavy duty truck for towing, but not everyone needs a heavy duty truck. Great video.
Great point. I've heard so many positive things about the baby dmax. It may not be up for heavy towing, but it sure is an efficient engine and priced right to make the fuel savings worth it.
Should consider an update video with maintenance costs/mile on engine. Makes an easy decision unless you're at high altitude with heavy loads or very heavy loads. What rear end gear does that GM have? Ford's 7.3 Godzilla port injected is a contender imo. I wish GM had kept the 8.1 liter
Thank you for the comment. 3.73 on all GMs (no option for other). I got a lot of questions about the maintenance, so recently added this video here: ruclips.net/video/SaM_0StXEYk/видео.html
That doesn't even take into the account of service in the same time frame. Like fuel filters. And oul changes. I agree, I have flipped over to gas as well. A complete engine replacement is comparable to a major fuel system overhaul on a diesel.
Diesel started becoming more expensive than gasoline back in 2008 when Ultra Low Sulphur diesel became required in the US. The prices have started getting back together now that the ULS processing tech has been amortized and most of the world is now on ULS. Your comparison is being very generous towards the Diesel. You're using the cheapest Diesel engine upgrade that also doesn't require DEF. If you want a Duramax or Powerstroke, you're paying a bit more for the engine and have to feed it DEF. Of course every diesel buyer better set aside $10k on account of that CP4 glitter-machine lurking under the hood.
I don't have much experience with newer diesels, but a big reason we used to buy them is that the engine life span of diesel was nearly twice that of a gasser. I don't get a new truck every 5 years, I keep them till they're no longer reliable which is usually closer to 25 years.
Well, you left out an important point for diesel... RESALE! We're calling the $10,000 option an added "cost", but the reality is the diesel becomes a massive asset come resale. It's very common to see diesels, even used diesels with 100k+ miles, still selling for $5k-$10k above what you'd paid for similar mile used gas trucks, sometimes even more. With that, diesel starts to make more sense. For me, I just don't even consider the upgrade as a "cost", it's just something I get back at the end my ownership, like a refundable security deposit. Basically, as long I don't blow the engine up, I get my money back at the end of it. Also, there are other big benefits to diesels besides fuel savings and better resale. Diesels with exhaust brakes, particularly Cummins diesels and their strong exhaust brakes, will save you on brake pads and rotors. Over the life the vehicle, you could see thousands of dollars in savings just on brakes. This is especially true for people who do a lot of towing and/or stop and go driving. As someone who's towed a lot with gas and diesel, I can attest to that saving from exhaust brakes. Resale aside, the saving and security and confidence you get with an exhaust brake makes the diesel premium worth it. That said, I wouldn't encourage someone who doesn't really need a diesel to go out and get a diesel. There are other issues that comes with diesel ownership. The emissions stuff can be killer for people who don't use these trucks as intended. For those who'd buy diesel for no reason beyond just wanting one, they should think twice. It maybe a very expensive headache in the end.
Yes they do hold their value but cost of ownership is still higher on a diesel. That exhaust brake you bring up. It is achieved with a variable geometry turbo which all do fail. Have you priced out how much one of those turbos are? And then what if you happen to have a high pressure fuel pump fail and have to replace everything in your fuel system. That repair alone costs as much as the diesel engine option in the initial purchase of the truck. Emission control issues, another costly expense.
@@adventurercalvin Having owned many trucks, I'm fully aware of the cost when it comes to repairs. It's not cheap. However, that's not something long-term owners face as often as you'd be concerned with. Certainly not in my case. You know, my current 6.7L diesel has nearly 250k miles on it right now. It's fully stock, 100% original powertrain, turbo, injection system, and all emissions stuff like the DPF and EGR, it's all been there from the factory. No repairs done to any of it. Could that stuff fail soon? Sure, but who cares??? With 250k miles and the work I do with the truck, the truck doesn't owe me a thing anymore. It's already paid for itself several times over. At this point, the thing has become a cash saving cow. If the thing quits tomorrow, I couldn't be mad because it's way ahead financially. But it shows no sign of quitting. So, all it's doing is delivering piece of mind.
I hear you! Thank you for bringing that resale issue up. I completely forgot to mention that! Sometimes I wonder if the resale argument is more useful to car dealerships to help them justify lowballing gas trade-ins and limiting discounts on diesel MSRP? Certainly makes sense, but I wonder if we forget when we go to sell that diesel truck years later how much we spent on the diesel premium initially? Definitely a point of consideration though!
@@AkioWasRight my boss has a couple of diesels in a couple of gas trucks so one day I asked him what should I get a diesel or a gas he told me if you don't need a diesel don't get a diesel
Agree with you. After much studying back in 2012, I tried to justify a diesel on a 100K of mixed hauling (empty, 17K RV, GN w/10K). Couldn't justify it. Settled with 2013 K3500HD, Cab Chassis, 6.0, 6sp, original 4.10 but had OE 5.13 installed. Also, true 3" CAT back exhaust. I am not a hotrod and still can run 70mph and engine loves it. Average 14-15 empty and 6-10 loaded. The only complaint from me is refueling when towing. Yes, diesels have a premium, but I love my truck. Use it and take care of it.
For most people, a heavy duty truck is not even needed and GM made the baby diesel the same upgrade price as the 6.2L. The heavy duty trucks do have a big premium in the diesel though. Personally, I wish these automakers would go to smaller diesel engines and have that power electric motors. I built a Humvee for a DARPA sponsored project that used a VW 1.9L diesel itch ecric motors to power the axles and it was amazing. Great torque and horsepower.
Pretty much on the money but I can think of one other scenario where Diesel make more sense - especially financially. If you cant pull yourself away from GM brand and dribe a 1500 or similar size full size SUV and tow in the 7K lb loads up mountain passes (such as in Colorado), then your choices are the 6.2L gasser or the LZ0 Duramax 3.0. The 5.3L is just under powered for these conditions. The 6.2L engine gets a whopping 18 mpg using Premium when not towing. The cost difference here is significant. Also, the 6.2L engine is several thousand more than the Diesel which is only $1K more expensive than the 5.3L. In CO and Texas Diesel is cheaper than unleaded and significantly cheaper than premium. Under this scenario, Diesel is a much better option even after taking into consideration DEF and higher oil change and fuel filter/maint. Costs.
Good video, thought i would add my experience. I owned a 2021 Duramax and pulled a 15,700 pound fifth wheel RV. I traded the deisel in and now have a 2024 6.6 gas. Both trucks are one ton dual rear wheel. Pulling with the diesel I was getting 9.5 to 11.5 per gallon. I did not drive the truck around town much and did not get a good handle on this kind of driving. The 6.6 gas pulling the same Rv gets 8.5 to 10.5 per gallon. Like you said the diesel in my case is not worth having. Gas is cheeper and the DEF for the diesel and other maintenance needed makes the gas a better buy. If i was pulling more weight and more often the diesel would be a good choice. Just my two cents....
I agree on HD trucks, just coming out of an F250 with the 6.2L gas engine. However, the numbers are very different for the GM 1500s. The 3.0L diesel total cost of ownership is substantially less than the 6.2L gas, starting with the engine option with the diesel engine being $1400 cheaper than the 6.2L engine.
5 year 100k warranty for Diesel 💪. If your usually buying extended warranties that is 2 grand right there. Your probably getting 5-7k more depending on mileage when selling. The real cost difference is just a few grand with above girl math. Note: IMO - If buying used you are likely getting ALL of the difference back.
I did this when I was looking for used. Including engine/trans repair/replace cost gas came out on top 20+ year parity. The parts new and used out of a pick n pull are cheaper and more widely available. My brother went 2010 GM 6.6 Duramax and I went gas 2006 GM 6.0 2500HD and the only thing I really miss is 4mpg empty/towing and towing on grade. While spending about 15k less.
Another angle not considered is maintenance costs. The average gas oil change is considerably less than a diesel if you actually change the diesel fuel filter when the manufacturer suggests.
In looking at the GMC 1500 i6 diesel vs 5.3 gasser, no cost to upgrade. Better economy and longer warranty. For the 2500 HD, yes ,the bigger ones makes less sense. But for the 3.0 vs 5.3? The 3.0 seems the better deal
Buying a 2500 diesel to daily drive it will never make sense, but buying a 1500 diesel, like the 3.0 dmax makes way more sense. Highway not pulling a trailer I, getting 28 miles to the gallon and when I as pulling my enclosed trailer I would get around 13 on the highway. Around town not pulling anything I average 22. Most people have no use for a 2500 pickup.
Setting aside the valid resale equation others have pointed out I’d say you are pretty on target and that’s not including the premium maintenance cost for a diesel either. I admittedly haven’t compared oil, filters, labor between the two but it seems (at least historically in my experience) diesel is significantly more in service costs - even diy. I’d also argue the delta in fuel mpg is more narrow due to modern diesel emissions (something I learned when I bought mine, having last been engaged with diesel technology in light trucks circa y2k’ish). Anyway, great video and valid points but if in a position to do so I’d still argue the diesel premium is worth the price to play for so many reasons mentioned already, but in your case yeah, gas was definitely the way to go. Cheers!
There are other considerations as well first of all when you sell the diesel truck you will recoup some of that money for the upgrade of the engine and it may be easier to sell as the gas truck might depreciate more however, all you need is one major repair on a diesel truck and that will set you back big time it will cost way way way more to repair a diesel over a gas truck and that would be my major consideration in avoiding a diesel truck. With all the smog equipment they’re putting on there are a major problems that can cost you over $10,000 just to repair an incident. I think you made a wise choice.
The money saving is more on the pre emissions trucks, i went from a 460 to an idi and use half the fuel and its still cheap to maintain, for the new ones with def and costly parts its really only an advantage if your using your truck daily to make money off it and are keeping it for long enough that the durability difference matters
You have a beautiful yard. What type of grass is that? I have crunched the numbers on diesel half tons 6 ways from sunday. They don't save money. One thing that most people dont think about is the insurance. The insurance premiums for the 3.0 L duramax was quite a bit more than the 5.3. Then there's the DEF and the oil changes are more expensive and some other stuff. The real only selling point for me would be the added range with those tiny fuel tanks on the 1500s.
The comments about diesel power are spot on. At the end of the day, there is really one big difference when it comes to power. Diesels make power effortlessly. If you love to hear your motor wrapped up to 4000 RPMs, then get a gas. If you want your engine to lumber along at 2000 RPMs (still walking away from the gas at 4000) then save the money and get a gas. An engine is a tool. I want the one that does the BEST job, no matter what it costs. As always, your mileage may vary, probably pun intended... 😂
My 3500 dodge 5.9 diesel got DOUBLE. THE mileage of my 1 ton Chev long bed pulling my 5th wheel....till TODAY when i was told i needed 15 000.00 to fix the Dodge 3500...9000.00 in parts and 6000.00 labor... Injectors , fuel pump in tank,
💯I agree I prefer the diesel for its power/torque/sound but sold my Duramax and got a 2500HD gasser as they look identical, fuel is far less here in Cali, registration, maintenance etc. again I enjoyed the diesel far more especially the 10x a year I tow but couldn’t justify all the additional expenses. Our state really bends you over for owning diesel but in 6 yrs when I retire out of state it will be the first thing I buy again just cause they are cool to drive loved them since I was a kid.
So one point you missed. At the end of 5 years the diesel sells for more than 10k more than its gas brother. Now the additional costs of def and tires seem to wear quicker. My reason for diesel are the premium features you mentioned. I live in the mountains and the exhaust brakes and torque are needed.
I keep both and disagree with diesel's not being a financial advantage. I typically purchase older, well broken in (depreciated) vehicles, as I have my own shop to do the repairs as needed. I can pick up a 25 year old f350 with the 7.3 International engine for around $7,000 right now on a truck that has around 200,000 miles but with approximately 5k into the transmission and 15k into the engine that 27k total expense will last for 300k miles. Try that with even a 15 year old gas and you will be replacing way too many things to make the truck work vs the diesel. That said, I like my gas trucks, I drive newer gas and old diesel.
I agree, I had a duramax with a cold air intake, aftermarket straight exhaust and tuned for better torque, hp and mileage and I got phenomenal mileage. I am in Canada so the mpg doesn’t cross correctly but on average everyday driving on a 120L tank I would get about 850-900 kilometres and I had right around 415 hp and 875 ft/lbs torque and now I have downgraded to the 1/2 ton 5.3l with the same intake, aftermarket exhaust and the same programable tuner but for gas and my fuel mileage is only about 2/3 what I got with the diesel 3/4. The thing is the maintenance cost. The newer diesel’s in whatever GM, dodge, ford even left stock is eventually going to have head gaskets go. Unless you put out the extra money to change the head bolts to studs, which still didn’t guarantee it. On a new vehicle with a BIG “IF” warranty will cover it then it should be ok. If not, you’ll be looking at a $15-20 thousand dollar CAD repair because it destroys a few parts and is very labour intensive. Same thing with all other maintenance, you have the cost of DEF, oil filters more expensive, oil change is more volume to fill, steering parts for wheel alignment are more expensive, brakes are more expensive, basically everything on the truck is more expensive because of the fact that it is more of a heavy duty part to accept the torque of the diesel and the weight as well. Even in the hotshot situation, the diesel trucks are so much heavier and not everywhere but here in Alberta, most hotshot are for oil and gas industry and the access roads are not always the most maintained so you may need to factor in recovery charges because of the heavier truck getting stuck easier, the front end being pounded on and all the extra maintenance costs of putting on that many miles at higher costs for basic maintenance. And hotshot drivers pay through the roof for insurance, so when you also factor in insurance on a $75-80k gas or a $90-110k diesel truck (Canadian dollars). It still doesn’t make any sense unless you have the money and you like the extra power and aren’t buying a vehicle with an economic value in mind. You made a great point and with just simple things but if you’re thinking about a diesel truck and have to be money conscious, there’s a lot more reasons to look at which makes buying a gas truck so much more appealing on the pocket book than most people think of.🍻
For me with all the emission problems and cost of modern diesel pickups and high cost my solution for rv towing is going to be an older non def class 8 truck that will be singled. I will keep a gas half ton truck for around the house truck stuff and tow with the big truck.
There are a few things you didn’t touch on. The resale value on the diesel will be much higher then the gasser, of course with DEF you do eat up any fuel savings when towing. I would think if you used your truck year round just for work, the diesel’s longevity and resale might edge out a gasser. I own a 2020 F-250 with the 7.3 Godzilla and I tow 16000lbs daily and plow snow in the winter. The only time my truck isn’t working is when I’m doing estimates on jobsites. The 7.3 has been a good engine but there are definitely times I wish I had the extra torque for pulling grades and the exhaust brake for slowing down.
For those interested in learning more about the diesel resale argument, please see this video here:
ruclips.net/video/NBnG41H8qDo/видео.html
There is no better video that describes the pro/cons of diesel vs gas. As the owner of three Duramax diesels and now the owner of the same truck as yours, I agree with everything you have pointed out. Vehicles are like ice cream. There are no wrong flavors, the one you like better is the right one for you.
Unless you're a diesel fanboy, then your 400+ HP/Torque one ton gasser that has numbers which top diesels from less than 10 years ago couldn't tow a radio flyer up a 1% grade 😂
When you have a 15,000 loaded trailer then yes diesel is a must.
A diesel truck will be worth $8k-$9k more than the same year and model gas truck for around 5 years so the initial cost is not a loss, it will be recovered when you sell or trade. Factor that in and it is almost a wash.
Great point. Thank you.
@@lazyj7860exactly. every one of these videos always forget to mention this. you get that diesel premium back on the trade in. that would make this chart look very different. i think he should do a follow up to include purchase and sale price for the life of a gas vs diesel truck.
Don't forget the diesel fuel filter changes and the extra expensive oil changes. It all adds up.
Gas is cheaper if you rarely tow anything
and the DEF you need to buy.
Diesel fuel filters are cheap. Don't replace them at dealership
@@Tallnerdyguy I replace my GM fuel filter for $32
Add DEF
This is applicable for HD trucks. But I switched from gas to diesel in the half ton segment. Diesel in my case just made much more sense. I tow and the GM 5.3L is just too anemic. That's why I upgraded to a 6.2L Silverado. When I bought that truck the 3.0L was in its first year of service, so I decided to pass on it.But when I was looking to upgrade in to a new truck earlier this year I decided on the 3.0L Duramax for several reasons. The new LZ0 was much more powerful than the first gen LM2. The 3.0L also has a very good record of reliability. The 3.0L was a $795 option whereas the 6.2L was a $2195 option. Diesel in my area is typically cheaper than even 87 octane gas and for the 6.2L it's recommended that you use premium gas, which I always did. So fuel is significantly cheaper for the diesel. The fuel filter is a 30,000 mile service at a cost of about $30. Other than that, maintenance is no different than the 6.2L. I had the max trailering package in both trucks, so I have a 3.73 axle now instead of a 3.42. But the fuel economy is amazing with the diesel. Driving my new truck home to Alaska from Idaho I was getting in the 30s. My last fill up before getting home I got 34.1 mpg over a 579.9 mile drive. Towing I was getting 14 mpg. With the 6.2L I would get 8 or 9 mpg. For me the diesel was a no-brainer.
Have you looked at the long term maintenance costs on that engine? Wait until you have to change a timing belt.
Great point. I don't have any firsthand experience, but I've heard that 3.0L gets some amazing fuel economy.
I plan on going with the 3.0l for this same reason! It’s really no comparison for the 1/2 ton vs gas.
Great video. And your comment is I think the best one here. For this GM half ton the baby Duramax would have been a more apples to apples comparison.
@@adventurercalvin The 3.0 uses a chain for timing. It does however use a belt for the oil pump.
Great video. I have been saying this for 12 years now as i've personally owned 2 different gas Ram 2500s. First was a 12 Ram 2500 with the 5.7 Hemi and sold it with 203k miles on it and now own a 23 Ram 2500 with the 6.4 Hemi. I love it and it tows my Jeep beautifully.
Just got out of a 2020 2500HD LTZ L5P. I fell into the diesel hype but with so many problems we encountered with a total of 52 codes with
I hear you, great points! Very well said.
Great video@@AdventureRocks! @kmonto1971 If you want to buy a truck that you plan on keeping for 10+ yrs (til the wheels fall off assuming it's not a lemon), towing 9-10k pounds max, and towing 10-20 times a year, would you still lean towards the gasser? As a smart guy but 100% new to towing, the premium benefits of the diesel are attractive (esp the truck stops w a 30' travel trailer in tow) certainly seem like the safer bet, and with a 10+ yr time horizon the money difference sounds like a wash or leans towards the diesel. Do you two reach the same conclusion?
@@keithellis5297 If it wasn't for modern diesels with all the DPF issues longterm, then I'd spend the extra $$ and go diesel. But, given the 10-20x per year (weekend warrior like myself)...and assuming mostly shorter trips...I'd go with gas if it was me. But, if you were to say 15K GVWR and more frequent towing I'd lean more toward diesel regardless.
@@AdventureRocks Thanks much! Analysis paralysis is such a real thing :) Aside from tow frequency and GVWR, do you think someone new to towing and especially longer travel trailers should just lean towards a diesel regardless? That's probably the last subjective question. I lean towards no since most any newish model year will have the great cameras to help out, but at the end of the day I don't really know what I don't know.
@@keithellis5297 Not necessarily. But, I would definitely would stay away from 1/2 ton trucks. When I started out a decade ago RVing, if I had just bought a 3/4 ton gas truck upfront, it would have saved me from buying at least 2 other trucks and learning the hard way. The 3/4 ton gasser is really a versatile truck overall and more affordable than the diesel. The gasser will have about 700-1000 lbs more payload too. One caveat going diesel is you may be maxed out on your payload if you do a 3/4 ton diesel. A 10K travel trailer may have a tongue weight of 1.5K lbs once fully loaded. Add your passengers and gear...you might be 2.2K lbs or higher...and that's right about a 3/4 ton diesel avg payload (some of the newer ones increase GVWR to give slightly more payload).
I've had a Ford 6.7 powerstroke for nearly 12 years until the engine blew up at 102k miles. However, during that time, I've spent more money maintaining it than I expected. An oil change for example, 13 quarts for the diesel vs 8 for the 6.6L gas every 5k miles adds to the cost. Buying DEF all the time, Emission system sensor failures and replacements, clogged EGR repair, and finally a catastrophic engine failure with a broken exhaust valve where the only option to fix it was to replace the engine for $21k. There is a price to pay for owning one and it goes up the longer you own it.
I hear you, very true.
You took the words right out of my mouth. Before i could type my 2cents i saw your post. Agree 100%
Well I've had numerous ram diesel trucks well past 100k without any of those problems. A diesel with catastrophic failure at barely 100k miles is only a norm with powerstrokes. I'm not writing this statement to ruffle feathers, but it's been true in my experience.
Wow...only 102 miles? POS...
The 6.7 powerstroke is a disaster too. Better off with gas 5.0 coyote
The REAL advantages to diesel are:
Grades: Less stress on the powertrain/transmission when tackling large, long uphill runs.
Elevation: The turbos make it almost a non-factor, whereas gas engines will gave to work quite a bit harder and won't provide as much performance.
Exhaust Braking: Going down grades, this will be a big help, especially with heavier trailers (13K+), and will put less stress on your braking system (although the engine breaking on modern gassers has gotten pretty good).
Refueling: This is actually the big one for most people that they often don't even think about. Lot more accessibility for diesel pumps that will fit your setup and you don't have to fuss with, well, all the other drivers going to the gas pumps.
With all that said, I still went with a gasser (Ford 7.3). I'm towing less than 12K less than 10 time a year and won't be taking any long trips out west and/or up into the mountains until after I retire (no time). Can't stand all the emissions crap on modern diesels and use my truck as an almost-daily driver so gas made the most sense for me.
Great points! Thank you for this!
You kidding about the pump? Lot of gas stations don’t offer the green pump. Also basically all the 1/2 ton gas engines now are turbos with 500+ torque.
Bottom line is get what you like. I hate the smell and sounds and harsh riding unloaded of the kerosene Mobil ESPECIALLY with all the EPA junk on it. If you tow all the time it would make sense.
How do you like the 7.3? I’m really entertaining grabbing one in the next few months.
You are absolutely correct on the pain and maintenance costs of a diesel due to the emissions.
I did notice when in the mountains every one was driving diesel trucks.
Before I got my first diesel truck, I did the same thing you did with a spreadsheet to show how many miles I would have to drive to break even. I put about 20K a year on mine, so I'll break even a little bit sooner. I think the newer gasser trucks are more than capable to tow campers/loads up to about 14K as a 5th wheel and more as a conventional trailer. But, when you start getting above the 14K as a 5th wheel, or more weight over all, that's where the diesel truck will shine. And yes, your premium benefits are the ones that helped push me into a diesel truck...esp the truck lanes and the exhaust brake. Great video with lots of great and accurate info for all of us.
Thank you. Great point! That weight number can really sway the difference when it comes to the gas vs diesel experience. 14-15K range vs 6-10K range would make a considerable difference to me in how it handles with the RPM, torque, etc.
Great content. Your viewership comments are so valuable.
For the lack of use of my gasser, and the occasional use for local towing of 8,000 lbs. Of RV, gas is the answer. To each their own.
Agree that DEF and maintenance costs would only increase your spreadsheet valves, but much of that could be speculative.
Nice job presenting clearly.
Thank you, appreciate that! Very true on the maintenance and def.
Nice work, sir. Have owned and continue to own gas-powered trucks. That said, I am also a diesel pickup aficionado, running several diesels over 30 years.
I would observe that although costs and economics can be or are important, many people are willing to pay more for the additional performance of a modern turbo-diesel truck.
Most vehicle purchases are not purely rational, but also emotional/feel good/want vs. need. 🤷🏻♂️😁.
I call it "performance", you call it "premium experience"... two ways to say essentially the same thing. Agreed sir.
Thank you, great points
Well definitely helped lol.. I drive 35k a year in F150 at 21mpg, and kept looking at the 3.0 duramax claiming 28-30.. thank you for the breakdown of information
The owner of our local Ford dealer whom I’m friends with told me over 2 decades ago there is no circumstance where the consumer will save money by purchasing a diesel truck. You’re spot on in your analysis. The one caveat is the Hotshot scenario. Remember at 100k a year mileage the truck will have to be replaced every year or two for reliability purposes which will lower savings and resale will go down on an high mileage truck.
Thank you. That's a great point about the hotshot scenario. I didn't think about that 2-3 year upgrade cycle potentially. Another viewer commented that they hotshot with a gas truck, so that further validates your point there.
Or sometime that tows at least a week or more every month
Its even worse than what you present. That extra 10K has additional opportunity cost. That $10K is tied up in the truck, so you can't invest it. If you put that $10K in a 10% growth stock, after 5 years you would have lost about another $6K from losing that investment opportunity. So the diesel engine cost is really a little over $16K more expensive over 5 years, when factoring loss of interest gains.
Good point. Though that $10,000 cost is actually higher. Sales tax, at the very least, and additional interest if financed. Could be closer to a $13,000 initial cost.
Interesting point.
Great points, well said. I didn't even think about that.
I have the same exact truck as yours. Searched on line for 9 months on AutoTrader and had it shipped to me in Montana. Super truck for pulling in the mountains.
Very nice! I'm really enjoying mine.
Very few people buy a diesel truck for fuel economy. We all buy them for the convenience, power, torque, increased peace of mind and towing capacity. I went from a ram 2500 diesel to an F150 5.0 gas. I made sure it was set up with everything I needed to tow my Imagine camper and Malibu wakeboard boat. If I had the choice to make that decision again I would have stuck with the Ram diesel. The power, the convenience and the towing capacity is something I desire to get back to at a future date. I’m thinking an older ram 2500 as a second vehicle non-daily driver because I tow less than 5000 miles per year.
I love the breakdown you did. Thanks for sharing!
My first diesel vehicle was a 1971 220 D Mercedes. Diesel fuel cost was at least half that of gas. Moving forward to Ford diesels in 1984 1985 diesel fuel was a little more but still less than gas. Today my 15th + diesel truck. Have 2024 Chevy 3.0 turbo diesel. Gets over 30 mpg when not towing and from 12 to 15 mpg pulling 3700 lb trailer. Same 495 ft lbs of torque as V8 diesel. So I have many arguments to your opinions. Just love diesel. John
I'm with you. I have a 2024 Chevy LZO 3.0 diesel and you are correct, the mileage is incredible - and you still get maximum torque. Great for a daily driver / weekend worker. I previously had a RAM 3500 Cummins DRW - awesome machine and a gasser could never come close to it. No longer tow heavy because I got rid of the fifthwheel camper and bought an RV - with a Cummins diesel motor! Diesel is superior all around. Costs are immaterial. In my mind - a truck is not a truck unless it is powered by diesel. The United States missed the boat on small displacement diesel engines. as mainstream choice of powertrain. Europe got it right! Love diesel!
I bought this exact truck because of your videos. Took a long time to find the one. Thanks for the content!
Same. Took 9 months.
Thank you! I think this might be my all-time favorite truck overall I've ever owned.
Great video, you nailed it on the head. I currently own a cummins and im switching to a truck just like yours. Like you said though, it is an experience. That torque, exhaust brake, a night and day difference. Massive smile on the face. But boy do you pay for that experience. Maintenence costs, In the shop for emmisions issues, def, 2 head gaskets, new turbo, egr, transmission ive had enough. Im a weekend warrior and mainly city driving so the diesel has got to go. Thanks for all the time you put in 👍
Thank you. Well said!
I drove a 93 ford diesel for 30 years and just changed the oil and filters. It was great. I then bought a 2017 f350 King Ranch that comes out to pull a trailer and otherwise stays in the garage. The power, and comfort still amazes me. I'll stick with my diesel for now. I think it will last the duration.
I did a similar spreadsheet about 10yrs ago, but based it on mileage, not time, and included the diesel premium. Mainly because all scheduled periodic maint is based on mileage. I calc'd fuel, oil and fuel filters, oil changes. Fuel mileage was unloaded, knowing the diesel would benefit when weighted down. Not calc'd was catastrophic breakdown of engine or trans. The breakover point was at about 140k miles, whether that is @5yrs or 20yrs of ownership. After that, diesel costs less to own.
When I was configuring and buying my F450, the fleet manager ran the numbers, and we determined that the break even point for my mix of towing and running loaded was 300,000 miles for the diesel. I bought the V10 which averages 7mpg towing a toy hauler at 18,000 pounds, or 12 mpg with about 1500 pounds in the bed. If I don’t need the load capacity I take a smaller vehicle, sometimes with a small trailer. The oil changes and fuel filters are considerably less expensive for the gas engine. My diesel Jeep averaged 29 mpg with 3 fuel stops in 1500 miles on a recent trip through the northwest. It gets 25mpg towing a 5x8 enclosed trailer. The gas Highlander V6 gets 19 mpg pulling the same trailer. My actual numbers agree with your findings. Both the Jeep rated 240hp and the Highlander rated 295hp have adequate power for passing and climbing grades.
You raise a great point. And it reminds me that fleet managers would know given they a have a fiduciary responsibility to deliver the most cost effective to their tax payers or employer. Their job is literally on the line based on how they run the numbers.
There is one big factor you missed. The vehicles value when it's traded for the next one. Diesel cost a lot more new. The diesel is worth a lot more used though. So now rerun all the numbers but lose the 10k upgrade cost because it's recovered in the sale.
Thank you for bringing that up, and great point! I've heard the resale argument used by car dealerships as negotiating power, but I've struggled to see it firsthand when I've sold my previous diesel trucks. Maybe it's because I didn't keep them as long, but I ended up losing a proportional amount with the depreciation once I factored in that initial premium cost. Maybe a case by case basis there with longer ownership playing a role, especially pre DPF/modern era when diesels didn't have all the emissions issues longterm. Thank you again.
I just bought a 22 Duramax used with 30k miles a couple months ago and that is what I discovered as well in the used market. I searched for a few months for the truck I wanted and looked at diesel and gasser. In the end I noticed the trend that most of the trucks I looked at, in the 30-40k miles and less range, whether diesel or gas were very similar in price. The main difference was only the mileage, the gassers had anywhere from 10-20k and the diesels had 30-40k on them in the same price range. I ultimately ended up with the diesel because I found a good price with lower than average miles on it from what I had been seeing.
Buying used definitely makes a difference on the 10k price difference he is referring to, from my personal experience.
@@joshuajohnson7736completely agree. Buy used and the diesel is a much better option.
I’m on my 3rd diesel dually in 25 years. In 1999 diesel was way Cheeper than gas. And the upgrade engine cost was 4K or under. But resale value has enabled me to get a new diesel. Overal in the last 25 years I have saved money but am just now getting close to the break even point. And will probably start going negative soon. However the hauling experience is going to be worth the difference.
If you own a diesel,it is more of a ten year vehicle.A torque machine.
I've spent 12 grand on repairs for the 2015 duramax 3500 with the def and cp3 repairs alone and the truck has 139 thousand miles! the 2012 and newer diesels are not the same anymore , at least in the emission restrictive states
on the new ones, not only are the oil change is more expensive. You also have the fuel filters, and the def. So unless you’re using it like a diesel needs to be used I agree completely with this guy.
Thank you for the comment
I have an '03 duramax with over 160, 000 mi I guess I made the right choice for the diesel option putting money back in my pocket and it hasn't cost me anything except regular maintenance and a couple sensors over its life and its still running strong in the injectors were done under warranty back in the day. But with that kind of savings you're showing in fuel that will pay for injectors and I'll still have money in my pocket good job on the stats.
I currently have a 2023 GMC 2500 Duramax. I dont daily it. I work from home and have a 2nd vehicle. In almost 2 years of ownership, i have put about 15K miles on it almost exclusively towing our 36ft TT or our 20 ft box trailer w/toys in it. Due to the pretty limited mileage that I use it, im not super exposed to the maintenance cost. Mostly went desiel for comfort while towing and ease of refueling with a trailer on. Not married to it though. Would be interested in trying a gasser one day.
I hear you. The Duramax is so powerful. Thank you for the comment.
100% agree with you. If you are pulling everyday heavy loads (equipment) for work the diesel makes sense, but the occasional heavy pulling, gas is the way to go.
The cost of maintenance is a huge factor that would be a even larger cost to the equation of Gas vs. Diesel.
And this same analysis applies to EVs. I looked at a Model Y in 2022 and the cost was $60,000. I then looked at a Chevy Equinox which was similar in size and comfort and it was $32,000. When I did the break-even analysis I calculated I would have to drive 420,000 miles to recover the additional $28,000 initial cost. I live in the PA road salt zone and cars are lucky to see 200,000 miles here before they succumb to rust.
A few factors, diesel w/ Def, cost of oil changes. I too have owned diesels my whole life. First gmc gas this year that 6.6 is awesome. Now I have only pulled 30k 2 times in this last 15k miles. My average weight is 21k pulling backhoe, or 18k with hay. Most of my miles are loaded. Very impressed with the gas engine by gm. Great vid but maintenence is part of the game in cost effective.
I tow about 5k miles year using my 08 V10 F250. Works fine for my needs without the worry of high repair bills of a diesel. Just put in gas and oil changes every 5k miles and it's good!
Great point. V10 power is a beast.
Good Video. Several other considerations are, engine size, you can get a smaller diesel engine like the 3.0 GMC as compared to the big block gasers. Also need to look at the rear end gear ratios, as this will make difference. I think the break even point for the diesel is about 100K, but it all depends on your usage. Most people can’t justify the cost. It’s like 4 wheel drive, most can’t cost justify the additional cost until you get into a snow storm and you are 500 lies away ground home, then you will always get it. There is also the ‘“boys and their Toys” factor.
The crazy thing about a lot of diesel truck owners is that they don't even come close to fully utilizing the capabilities of their truck. It's just cool to say your truck is a diesel. My brother has a diesel, but he rarely uses his truck just to commute. It's mostly used to tow a large 5th wheel rv. Unlike my dad, who put over 100k miles on his diesel truck with only towing a 4000lb trailer 4 times. He drove his truck 90% of the time empty, and he was the one in it. He still thinks he is saving money driving his diesel.
Few things. The $10K diesel option is usually returned at trade-in time, so that's a wash. You missed the maintenance costs between the two, with diesel being much higher than gas. And, diesel gels in the cold winter requiring more attention and maintenance than gas (which doesn't freeze). Issues; okay, you can buy an extended warranty out to 100K miles to cover the drivetrain, but after that, you are on your own for any diesel repairs. And, with the way diesels are so choked with all of the emissions stuff on them, I'd say there's a really good chance of a major repair bill after 100K. I'm a Ford guy (my 2023 F150 with the 3.5L ecoboost and 10 speed transmission is a monster towing our 7,200 lb travel trailer), but look at the Godzilla motor and 10 speed transmission in the F250... massive power and ability to handle up to around 18K towing. I'll close by saying towing above 15K, the diesel starts winning, just because of performance... but, man oh man, under 15K, these new trucks with big gas motors and 10 speed transmissions are the way to go, I think. This is creating a dilemma for us deciding our next camper... we're actually looking at staying under 15K so we can get a gas truck instead of diesel. Good topic to discuss! I'd appreciate any feedback if I'm missing anything. Cheers! Pete in Arizona - KI7LIL
Diesel for GM come with 100k 5 year warranty. No extended needed to buy. Does not change your math much but just wanted to add this clarification.
Great points! Thank you for adding this!
100% agree with your first statement regarding trade value. The Diesel retains that value at the time of trade or resale. I typically tow about a 20k gooseneck and have had diesel for the last 25 years. I will also agree with the emissions on the newer trucks, traded one in just for that reason once the extended warranty was up.
@@peterkunka2694 this is correct. Re: costs returned (partially) at trade. However, if financing it should also be noted that there are increased carrying costs not covered as well. Not to push anyone off, just trying to be as close to accurate as possible wrt to diesel/gas. Diesels do have their place. If one is towing 5-10x a year, I believe they are better with gas. Imo from a cost perspective.
@peterkunka2694 I just finished an extensive 5 month long search for my next truck. I looked at both new and used HD trucks. At least in my area used diesel’s absolutely do not bring anywhere close to what you pay for them up front. At best you might get 1/2 of that 10k back but it’s definitely not a wash. Again this is in my area.
Loved your video. I had one more perspective to support you. In the case of the "hotshot" driver towing 100k per year. After 5 years, that's 500k miles and both the engine and transmission will likely require major maintenance costs by then. My own experience also started out with the diesel rigs, mostly the Chevy Duramax's. I loved many of the good "experiences" you mentioned but not only did I pay the "premium" costs to purchase them, I was concerned there would be potential major costs if either the diesel engine or Allison transmission needed work. My vehicles have always been purchased used and so I was dealing with higher mileage vehicles. I too concluded the gas engine choices would be my cheaper option in the long run even while towing our RV trailer. Individual trips over the mountains and back costs more in fuel, but the peace of mind and overall costs have been cheaper for me now that we've switched back to gas. Thank you.
Great points, thank you
Just made the switch to a 2024 Sierra Denali 2500 HD Duramax 6.6. Still mapping out operational costs. Here in Detroit diesel is running +$0.40 over unleaded. But the V8 2500 HD requires premium; which right now is +$0.90 over diesel. In my case I bought used; 18k on the clock for several thousand under bluebook with a clean history. Cost analysis between V8 and diesel will vary significantly based on your area, purchase/engine premium price of the vehicle, mileage driven, etc.
It comes down to your situation if a diesel makes sense to you. Focusing on only the HD diesels (6.0L +) and not the smaller ones; also the V8 Gas Equivalent of the HD Diesel......
If you tow/haul frequently, tow/haul heavy loads (+8000k lbs), travel hilly/steep terrain, operate a plow, or simply want to experience everything an HD rig can offer; diesel is the choice for you. Diesel engines can easily go 250k miles and the engine will typically outlast the body and interior. They tow beautifully even on grade. With exhaust braking you save wear on your brakes while traveling/towing downgrade. Generally speaking, MPG, especially while tow/hauling is better than the gas counterpart. Resale value is typically higher than the gas counterpart; absorbing some, if not all of the diesel upgrade cost on a new vehicle.
The drawbacks to diesel.....There is more maintenance involved with diesels; DEF fluid, filter changes, oil cost than with gasoline. The availability of diesel may be limited in your area. In many areas the cost of diesel fuel is less than premium. But you will have to factor in maintenance costs.
If you tow/haul infrequently, tow/haul moderate loads (-8000k), plan on using for light duty the majority of the time, travel less hilly/steep terrain, and don't plan on keeping the vehicle over 100k miles or 5-7 years then a gasoline V8 would be the better option for you. Gas engines go roughly 100k miles before showing issues or failure. If you plan on disposing of the vehicle around that mileage you won't benefit from the longevity of a diesel engine. This will save you money at purchase; be it new or used. As a side note; if you downgrade from a 1 ton / 3/4 ton to a half ton truck; you can get offroad and track equipped gas engines.
Which is right for you? That depends on your situation and preference. For me the choice was clear. I wanted the maximum capability to tow a trailer. I wanted the maximum performance while towing or hauling. The fuel costs with maintenance factored in was a wash. And I plan on keeping my truck past 250k miles. Yea, it can be a pain in the a** to navigate tight parking lots but the 360 camera comes in clutch.
No arguing your data; makes perfect sense. My decision was on the 6.2L V8 OR the 3.0L Duramax. The minimax upcharge was about $4k in 2023 (arguable because the 6.2L was hard to find and dealers charged a PREMIUM for it over the 3.0). With the MPG variance on these engines (9 towing with the 6.2 and 16 with the 3.0), the "savings" delta becomes a was (mostly). Mostly, because as others have said: DEF, Oil (freaking DexosD must be made with Manatee oil).
I've owned diesels since my 2001 7.3L Powerstroke, so I just prefer them; but you're right . . . from a finance perspective: no way.
I am a huge fan of the ls line of engines. But when engineers started playing with afm dod and so on the reliability of that 200k + engine dropped to around 100k -. Chevys were eating the rear two cylinders out at between 80k and 130k I was averaging 13mpg in a crew cab 4wd. I have a dodge Cummins 3/4 ton 4wd crew cab and with a little work it gets 25 mpg. My oil changes are cheaper but I went from royal purple and a ac delco filter to cat oil and a cat filter (I work there so I get the discount.) yes initial start up was pricier but the maintenance is cheaper, and I’m not looking at having to buy an engine between 80 and 130,000 miles.
One must factor in that money costs money. The extra 10K invested represents either money you have to pay finance costs on or (in the case of a cash buyer) money you could invest and achieve a return on. Plug a finance charge into your spreadsheet and diesel gets even harder to justify.
As a business owner of 5 diesel trucks they are quite expensive to maintain as well (if you can get one out of a shop for under 1K consider yourself lucky). My last truck purchase was a gasser and while it’s a bit “doggy” while towing it’s become my favorite daily driver. Unloaded and unburdened by a trailer, the mileage is similar and the similar horsepower makes them just as peppy to drive around.
Great points
I have a 2023 LZ0 diesel Chevy 1/2ton just came back from a trip to Tennessee I live in NY round trip was 2200 miles I was towing a 14 foot V-nose trailer with two touring Harleys with a lot of gear 5,000 pounds total I was averaging between 14 to 17.5 mpg used 5 boxes of blue platinum def 20.00 a box. My friend that went with us also has a 14 foot V nose with one Harley in it total for him was around 3200 pounds he was towing it with a Dodge truck 1/2 ton with a hemi he was averaging around 8 mpg spent quite a bit more money on gas than I did. I factor the def in also. So the advantages of a diesel it is a torque monster. It’s fun to drive but it is a pain in the ass to find diesel and you have to put def in when you’re hauling something heavy. It goes through it like water! So would I but another diesel NO! (Just my opinion)
It’s crazy how much more the lZ0 guzzles def vs lm2. I did a similar trip towing my viper across country 3k miles, similar weight as you and only had to fill up the tank twice.
@@jemery3Thats a big difference!
Very true. That torque is just an absolute delight especially when towing.
@@gabe9158 the LZO has a second DEF injector to help with emissions and in theory a more reliable def system but it uses so much more when towing it’s kinda ridiculous. The extra power sounds nice though! How’s your mpg when not towing? My 22 trailboss gets 25-26.5 when going 75mph, more if I go slower. So far over the 40k trouble free miles I’ve average 22.3 mpg with just under 9k of that towing.
My mpg is about the same as yours when not towing! I didn’t realize they put another Def injector in! it all makes sense now
I did a comparison between two 2021 F250 Lariats, one with diesel (no high output), the other with a 7.3 gas engine. The price difference with average miles was $6,000.
I agree with your assessment on which truck makes more sense. If I were buying new, it would be an F250 with the 7.3 gas engine. New diesels have way too many issues with added emissions, failing fuel pumps, and expensive repairs.
Great point, well said.
This is exactly why i went with the 7.3 gas vs diesel! One thing you forgot was the maintenace difference and repair cost difference to 100k miles
You are right, you won't save money but having the peace of mind that you can easily tow uphill with the truck not straining and get super braking power with the exhaust brake may be worth it. Also, you will recoup some of the diesel engine premium when you sell it or trade it. Look at any 5 plus year old truck and the diesel is worth several thousand more than the same gas truck.
I live In PA and in my area diesel is .05 cheaper than regular 87 gas. If you run premium diesel is significantly cheaper at the moment. Add in the resale value and the piece of mind of effortless towing my fifth wheel, I didn’t think twice about trading my 2015 Cummins on a 2024 Cummins HO.
Should have said premium gas, then diesel is significantly cheaper
Where in PA exactly? Cause I'm in central PA and I have never seen diesel cheaper than premium. It's always $0.70 - $1.10 more than regular.
Bloomsburg Sheetz. Paid $3.25 for diesel tonight. 87 was $3.29 and premium was $3.69…..the last 6 months I have paid less for diesel than gas. First time in 10 years of owning a diesel.
Great point. The fuel price can definitely change the outcome. Nothing like the torque on a diesel engine. Cummins HO is a beast of beasts.
@@one24mikethis sheetz is biodiesel up to 20% used cooking oil which i had been running all spring and summer and switched over to regular diesel now and I have been getting about 1mpg better so not much different but I also don't drive mind thru the winter so I don't want gelled fuel sitting there but did enjoy the savings all summer
It’s always been a pretty straight forward thing. You pay considerably more for a truck with a diesel engine. The fuel savings don’t recoup that unless you are hauling heavy loads full time. Other than that, if you constantly drive with heavy loads up and down in altitude you need the torque of a diesel.
Some times you just have to buy what you want! Which is what i did, my first diesel, used, love it. Most powerful truck I've ever had and the exhaust brake is awesome. I did the same cost comparison and knew I'd never get a break even, but i didn't care. Yolo right!! Lol
@@JustinKingOffroad Well said. There's no shame in spending more to get the unmatched performance and premium experience with the diesel.
That doesn’t account for maintenance, DEF, insurance, taxes or repairs. Many localities will tax diesel HD trucks as commercial trucks. My county does.
I went through 3 gas powered trucks all three were small V-8 short bed 2 wheel drive. After my 1st truck I kept telling myself the engines were to small , the beds were 2 short and I was tired of getting stuck in places. I needed 4 wheel drive. When shopping the salesman would alway offer me a great deal on these trucks and that's why I bought them, then regretted it later. In 2000 I finally bought the truck I really wanted and needed. I purchased a 1997 F250, super cab, long bed 4X4, 7.3 liter power stroke diesel. The truck had about 80,000 miles on it. It's now 2024, I still have the truck, it has 276,000 miles on it. The transmission went out at 212,000 miles and it sat for 18 months before I could afford to replace it. I bought a new KIA Sportage when the transmission went out and because of the gas mileage and it was much easier to park in the city the KIA became my every day car. That took me a while to get used to. My truck also spends a lot of time idling. I have a small farm on the other side of the state (Washington) and my dog travels with me. When I'm out working on the place my dog is in the truck staying cool in the A/C so my truck may idle for the whole day when not being driven. I don't think a gas engine could take idling 8 hours a day in 90 and 100 degree heat and running the A/C. The gas engine would probably over heat it also just would not last in my opinion. My diesel pickup is old and does not pull the hills like these new trucks especially when towing and does not have all the new electronics but it still runs like a champ.
I honestly believe it has lower maintenance costs also. I've replaced one water pump, 5 alternators, the wiring that runs inside the valve covers for the glow plugs and injectors and all the injectors and most of the flow plugs, the transmission, 4 batteries and a lot of tires and brakes. In a 27 year old truck that I've owned for 24 years I'd say that is pretty good especially considering some of the loads its hauled and pulled. Could a gas engine pickup truck do all that this long with as little maintenance...I don't think so. If you are going to keep your truck for a long time and work it...I think the diesel is the way to go. Will the new diesels do as well? Only time will tell. I also believe the regen systems on the new diesels will hurt their longevity and increase their maintenance costs.
Well spoken and great data. I love my high mileage diesel, which I bought used and had to repair before using. Pulling with the diesel is hands down a better experience. Echoing some of the comments, maintenance is a LOT more $$$$. New diesels use that DEF crap, which the cost might be negligible?
Thanks for the comparison!
I did a similar analysis back in the 80's before I bought a gas truck. I am currently wanting a HD AT4x 6.6 gasser but dealers only stock diesel. I have also heard the maintenance is more for diesel.
Good choice for antenna and bed cover.
Great video. It doesnt matter what fuel mileage it gets the cost of DEF, fuel price as well as maintenace for fuel filters more oil capacity for oil changes, now factor in cost of repairs. diesels do tend to hold value at re sale compated to a gas significantly tho. I still think a Hybrid gas 3/4 or 1 ton will be the game changer. Gives you the comparible fuel mileage too a diesel, and added power while towing. Plus i like the idea of being -40C and my hybrid motor turns on and instantly warms up cab and gas motor prior to battery depletion. Your diesel "might" turn on that day. But it damn sure better be plugged in, high quality fuel or fuel additive as well as cycle the glow plugs.
Great point, very instresting on the hybrid concept. Thanks for sharing.
Great points, but keep in mind that when you go sell it, the gas trucks are not as desirable (and depreciate more) than diesels. Most HD truck buyers want diesels, which is why used ones are a lot pricier than their gas counterparts.
Again, great points. Thanks for doing the research to put this together.
Cheers,
Thank you! Great point.
Great video I’ve been on the fence between diesel and gas so this has helped me tremendously. Thanks!
Thank you for the comment. And thanks for watching.
Nice video. I too am a spreadsheet nerd. Haha. One thing that will affect the numbers is looking at trade in or difference in value at the five year mark. Some of that up front premium is going to come back in higher used value.
It’s hard to factor into a spreadsheet since it’s not guaranteed inputs, especially when comparing new trucks but a set of injectors could be more $$$ than a new engine in the gas truck.
Great points!
I have owned Chevy, ford and ram 2500 all were gas. I hear the diesel talk about power and grades. But the 7.3l ford gas Is an animal I think further making the conversation interesting. I haul more than I tow so the gas trucks have always suited my needs. Thoughts?
Indeed, the Godzilla is changing the landscape. Modern gas engines offer a lot for the $$.
Great content, but your entire reasoning is the $10,000 upgrade for the diesel engine. As some have commented, the resell offsets that upfront cost. In addition, it wasn't always $10K, I paid under 8 for the upgrade to Diesel, and on a recent purchase, for a 1500 Silverado the Diesel upgrade is $1000. Also with the 1500, gas mileage goes to 30MPG or better on the freeway with 24 around town. It really changes the dynamic when you look at how the cost is going down. Lastly, some areas, diesel is cheaper than gas.
Great point. Thank you for comment. I explain the resale argument in more detail here:
ruclips.net/video/NBnG41H8qDo/видео.html
I think it’s also important to consider the cost of DEF, which should be proportional to fuel consumption and easy enough to estimate. I’ve tracked every maintenance cost to my 2018 2500HD Duramax since new and am sitting at about 167k now. I’ve figured out that the cost of operation FOR ME will shake even at around 15mpg (depending on fuel cost disparity). I think a lot of people really want to hold onto the diesel resale thing, but that’s a wash in either direction…you don’t pay the premium up front, have to pay the interest, etc…not a factor for me. Pulling power…sure, if you really NEED it, will be better with a diesel.
Well said
You forgot to add the scenario of when you delete the nannies in a modern diesel truck, you add over 10MPGs. 😅
Thanks for validating what I suspected. I was on the fence and had come to this realization, but it's nice to see numbers in many scenarios to back it up. I won't break even for another 5-6 years or so (I tow a 40' 5th wheel about 10k mile a year, so I'll actually get there)...but at least I'll get there!
:)
You really need to add maintenance costs into this equation, gas will shine even more
With DYI maintenance, diesels can actually be a bit cheaper on regular service items.
In bulk, you can buy diesel engine oil and filters for about the same as gas oil and filters. For example, 2 gallons of Mobil1 and a gas engine oil filter will run you about $60-$70. This is more or less what I pay for a filter and 3 gallons of Rotella in bulk. Even just on Amazon, 3 gallons of Rotella are only slightly more than Mobil1 for gas.
Emissions servicing is a point against diesels, but then there or no tune ups or GDI to contend with. This can somewhat balance out.
For the biggest point for diesel, you can save massively on brakes with diesels because of exhaust brakes. For me, brakes and rotors last 3-5x as long. Over the life of the truck, you will save thousands just on brakes. Even if you pay slightly more for other maintenance items, you will get that money back on the braking end of things purely because of an exhaust brake.
On the negative side for diesel, repairs will be much more. No way to make light of that. If you have an EGR go out, a turbo failure, or an HPFP grenade, be prepared to pay big time. These are not certain to be issues for everyone, but it can be issues for some. So, you got to be up on maintenance and always have money ready for when something does happen.
Great point. Those annual duel fuel filters on the Cummins add up $$, even when DIY. Plus the DEF and DPF issues.
Great video!! One thing you did forget with the diesel, the additional cost of DEF.
Thank you for pointing that out! Lots of other expenses there for sure!
I agree 100% 20yrs ago when I crunched the numbers and Deisel was less than gas the break even point of fuel cost was 100,000miles for the extra cost of the deisel engine. That’s not even looking at the cost of oil changes and maintenance.
I tend to keep my trucks around 15 years and drive a little more than you do. Believe in this scenario with a diesel engine expected to get around 450K miles out of the engine, this will not happen with a gas engine. My last gas truck lasted a little over 150K and I had already had to rebuild the transmission at the 124K mile mark and I did tow. I, like you., have owned both and would not return to a gas engine again just due to longevity of the truck engine and the additional torque/power from the diesel.
Ive had four diesel pickups, two 7.3s and two duramaxs newest was an 05, and it seemed all i did was work on either one, with repairs being expensive even doing the work myself, now i have two chevys with 8.1/Allison combo with 4.10 gears and they not only pull better than any of those older diesels stcok tuning, but low maintenance and for what i do which is mostly farm work and occasional trips across the state, id rather pay for gas.
The 8.1 is surprisingly more efficient than i expected it actually gets double digits empty😂😂, 11-13 mpg
Towing is 7-8 mpg
Hauling hay never overloaded😂😂😂 5 mpg.
Both trucks have been very reliable.
But if i were pulling everyday for a living, i would have a diesel again!
Honest question, who keeps vehicles for five years? I keep mine for at least 10. Wouldn’t your savings increase the longer you keep the vehicle?
GREAT point. Yes, longer years typically = more mileage and certainly would see that over 10 years. The diesel gets diminished with the premium cost upfront, but I really think if you want that premium experience diesel is the way to go regardless. Otherwise the gas will likely be more affordable. Very much a personal decision based on your use.
I have a 2020 Chevy 1500 6.2 -10 speed ❤. With max tow. It’s awesome! GCWR 17800, 12k trailer. And rides great unlike all the 2500s. Love my MAX
use of the vehicle is the most important... went from a Tacoma to a ram 2500 with the 6.4l hemi ... I'm running a pop top truck camper . I needed the payload more than the towing, plus the ability to do the majority of my own maintenance and repairs. Also coming from a Tacoma on 35's to a ram on 35's ... the ram gets way better milage. just drove cross country from PA to CA and averaged 17-18 mpg (no truck camper) .. the Tacoma would get 10-12 due to the weight height of the tires and bad gearing.
Great point on the payload and use!
Awesome video! Two other things that came to mind for me. What would be the difference in value of the two trucks at the end of 5 years. In other words the diesel truck cost more initially, but it's probably worth more at the end. Secondly I've never owned of diesel but I understand routine maintenance is considerably more expensive. Cost of oil changes for example.
You are right about experience. It would be like making a spreadsheet comparing RV travel over staying in a hotel. When consider RV depreciation you are way better off staying in hotels but is it the same,no?
Great point. The goal/experience is key.
I would be curious to see what the 3 L baby Duramax cost saving to gas would be. I know it is not a heavy duty truck for towing, but not everyone needs a heavy duty truck. Great video.
Great point. I've heard so many positive things about the baby dmax. It may not be up for heavy towing, but it sure is an efficient engine and priced right to make the fuel savings worth it.
Should consider an update video with maintenance costs/mile on engine.
Makes an easy decision unless you're at high altitude with heavy loads or very heavy loads.
What rear end gear does that GM have?
Ford's 7.3 Godzilla port injected is a contender imo.
I wish GM had kept the 8.1 liter
Thank you for the comment. 3.73 on all GMs (no option for other). I got a lot of questions about the maintenance, so recently added this video here:
ruclips.net/video/SaM_0StXEYk/видео.html
That doesn't even take into the account of service in the same time frame. Like fuel filters. And oul changes.
I agree, I have flipped over to gas as well. A complete engine replacement is comparable to a major fuel system overhaul on a diesel.
Diesel started becoming more expensive than gasoline back in 2008 when Ultra Low Sulphur diesel became required in the US. The prices have started getting back together now that the ULS processing tech has been amortized and most of the world is now on ULS. Your comparison is being very generous towards the Diesel. You're using the cheapest Diesel engine upgrade that also doesn't require DEF. If you want a Duramax or Powerstroke, you're paying a bit more for the engine and have to feed it DEF. Of course every diesel buyer better set aside $10k on account of that CP4 glitter-machine lurking under the hood.
I don't have much experience with newer diesels, but a big reason we used to buy them is that the engine life span of diesel was nearly twice that of a gasser. I don't get a new truck every 5 years, I keep them till they're no longer reliable which is usually closer to 25 years.
Well, you left out an important point for diesel... RESALE!
We're calling the $10,000 option an added "cost", but the reality is the diesel becomes a massive asset come resale. It's very common to see diesels, even used diesels with 100k+ miles, still selling for $5k-$10k above what you'd paid for similar mile used gas trucks, sometimes even more. With that, diesel starts to make more sense.
For me, I just don't even consider the upgrade as a "cost", it's just something I get back at the end my ownership, like a refundable security deposit. Basically, as long I don't blow the engine up, I get my money back at the end of it.
Also, there are other big benefits to diesels besides fuel savings and better resale. Diesels with exhaust brakes, particularly Cummins diesels and their strong exhaust brakes, will save you on brake pads and rotors. Over the life the vehicle, you could see thousands of dollars in savings just on brakes. This is especially true for people who do a lot of towing and/or stop and go driving. As someone who's towed a lot with gas and diesel, I can attest to that saving from exhaust brakes. Resale aside, the saving and security and confidence you get with an exhaust brake makes the diesel premium worth it.
That said, I wouldn't encourage someone who doesn't really need a diesel to go out and get a diesel. There are other issues that comes with diesel ownership. The emissions stuff can be killer for people who don't use these trucks as intended. For those who'd buy diesel for no reason beyond just wanting one, they should think twice. It maybe a very expensive headache in the end.
When it comes to repairing a diesel it's a lot more expensive to
Yes they do hold their value but cost of ownership is still higher on a diesel. That exhaust brake you bring up. It is achieved with a variable geometry turbo which all do fail. Have you priced out how much one of those turbos are? And then what if you happen to have a high pressure fuel pump fail and have to replace everything in your fuel system. That repair alone costs as much as the diesel engine option in the initial purchase of the truck. Emission control issues, another costly expense.
@@adventurercalvin Having owned many trucks, I'm fully aware of the cost when it comes to repairs. It's not cheap.
However, that's not something long-term owners face as often as you'd be concerned with. Certainly not in my case.
You know, my current 6.7L diesel has nearly 250k miles on it right now. It's fully stock, 100% original powertrain, turbo, injection system, and all emissions stuff like the DPF and EGR, it's all been there from the factory. No repairs done to any of it. Could that stuff fail soon? Sure, but who cares???
With 250k miles and the work I do with the truck, the truck doesn't owe me a thing anymore. It's already paid for itself several times over. At this point, the thing has become a cash saving cow. If the thing quits tomorrow, I couldn't be mad because it's way ahead financially.
But it shows no sign of quitting. So, all it's doing is delivering piece of mind.
I hear you! Thank you for bringing that resale issue up. I completely forgot to mention that! Sometimes I wonder if the resale argument is more useful to car dealerships to help them justify lowballing gas trade-ins and limiting discounts on diesel MSRP? Certainly makes sense, but I wonder if we forget when we go to sell that diesel truck years later how much we spent on the diesel premium initially? Definitely a point of consideration though!
@@AkioWasRight my boss has a couple of diesels in a couple of gas trucks so one day I asked him what should I get a diesel or a gas he told me if you don't need a diesel don't get a diesel
Great video. I agree, diesel is just for towing and gas is for light to win every day driving.
Agree with you. After much studying back in 2012, I tried to justify a diesel on a 100K of mixed hauling (empty, 17K RV, GN w/10K). Couldn't justify it. Settled with 2013 K3500HD, Cab Chassis, 6.0, 6sp, original 4.10 but had OE 5.13 installed. Also, true 3" CAT back exhaust. I am not a hotrod and still can run 70mph and engine loves it. Average 14-15 empty and 6-10 loaded. The only complaint from me is refueling when towing. Yes, diesels have a premium, but I love my truck. Use it and take care of it.
Well said, thank you for the comment
For most people, a heavy duty truck is not even needed and GM made the baby diesel the same upgrade price as the 6.2L. The heavy duty trucks do have a big premium in the diesel though. Personally, I wish these automakers would go to smaller diesel engines and have that power electric motors. I built a Humvee for a DARPA sponsored project that used a VW 1.9L diesel itch ecric motors to power the axles and it was amazing. Great torque and horsepower.
Pretty much on the money but I can think of one other scenario where Diesel make more sense - especially financially. If you cant pull yourself away from GM brand and dribe a 1500 or similar size full size SUV and tow in the 7K lb loads up mountain passes (such as in Colorado), then your choices are the 6.2L gasser or the LZ0 Duramax 3.0. The 5.3L is just under powered for these conditions. The 6.2L engine gets a whopping 18 mpg using Premium when not towing. The cost difference here is significant. Also, the 6.2L engine is several thousand more than the Diesel which is only $1K more expensive than the 5.3L. In CO and Texas Diesel is cheaper than unleaded and significantly cheaper than premium. Under this scenario, Diesel is a much better option even after taking into consideration DEF and higher oil change and fuel filter/maint. Costs.
Good video, thought i would add my experience.
I owned a 2021 Duramax and pulled a 15,700 pound fifth wheel RV. I traded the deisel in and now have a 2024 6.6 gas.
Both trucks are one ton dual rear wheel. Pulling with the diesel I was getting 9.5 to 11.5 per gallon. I did not drive the truck around town much and did not get a good handle on this kind of driving.
The 6.6 gas pulling the same Rv gets 8.5 to 10.5 per gallon.
Like you said the diesel in my case is not worth having. Gas is cheeper and the DEF for the diesel and other maintenance needed makes the gas a better buy. If i was pulling more weight and more often the diesel would be a good choice.
Just my two cents....
Thank you, great data points shared.
I agree on HD trucks, just coming out of an F250 with the 6.2L gas engine. However, the numbers are very different for the GM 1500s. The 3.0L diesel total cost of ownership is substantially less than the 6.2L gas, starting with the engine option with the diesel engine being $1400 cheaper than the 6.2L engine.
5 year 100k warranty for Diesel 💪. If your usually buying extended warranties that is 2 grand right there. Your probably getting 5-7k more depending on mileage when selling.
The real cost difference is just a few grand with above girl math.
Note: IMO - If buying used you are likely getting ALL of the difference back.
I did this when I was looking for used. Including engine/trans repair/replace cost gas came out on top 20+ year parity. The parts new and used out of a pick n pull are cheaper and more widely available. My brother went 2010 GM 6.6 Duramax and I went gas 2006 GM 6.0 2500HD and the only thing I really miss is 4mpg empty/towing and towing on grade. While spending about 15k less.
Very well done!
I’m going to put my Powerstroke on FB marketplace now..
Another angle not considered is maintenance costs. The average gas oil change is considerably less than a diesel if you actually change the diesel fuel filter when the manufacturer suggests.
In looking at the GMC 1500 i6 diesel vs 5.3 gasser, no cost to upgrade. Better economy and longer warranty. For the 2500 HD, yes ,the bigger ones makes less sense. But for the 3.0 vs 5.3? The 3.0 seems the better deal
Great point. This video is for HD trucks, but GM nailed the pricing on the baby dmax. Great option for efficiency-minded drivers.
@@AdventureRocks and 200k before big maintenance required isn't terrible
Buying a 2500 diesel to daily drive it will never make sense, but buying a 1500 diesel, like the 3.0 dmax makes way more sense. Highway not pulling a trailer I, getting 28 miles to the gallon and when I as pulling my enclosed trailer I would get around 13 on the highway. Around town not pulling anything I average 22. Most people have no use for a 2500 pickup.
Setting aside the valid resale equation others have pointed out I’d say you are pretty on target and that’s not including the premium maintenance cost for a diesel either. I admittedly haven’t compared oil, filters, labor between the two but it seems (at least historically in my experience) diesel is significantly more in service costs - even diy. I’d also argue the delta in fuel mpg is more narrow due to modern diesel emissions (something I learned when I bought mine, having last been engaged with diesel technology in light trucks circa y2k’ish). Anyway, great video and valid points but if in a position to do so I’d still argue the diesel premium is worth the price to play for so many reasons mentioned already, but in your case yeah, gas was definitely the way to go. Cheers!
Thank you. Great summary!
There are other considerations as well first of all when you sell the diesel truck you will recoup some of that money for the upgrade of the engine and it may be easier to sell as the gas truck might depreciate more however, all you need is one major repair on a diesel truck and that will set you back big time it will cost way way way more to repair a diesel over a gas truck and that would be my major consideration in avoiding a diesel truck. With all the smog equipment they’re putting on there are a major problems that can cost you over $10,000 just to repair an incident. I think you made a wise choice.
Thank you, great point!
The money saving is more on the pre emissions trucks, i went from a 460 to an idi and use half the fuel and its still cheap to maintain, for the new ones with def and costly parts its really only an advantage if your using your truck daily to make money off it and are keeping it for long enough that the durability difference matters
Really solid point. Landscape is definitely changing.
You have a beautiful yard. What type of grass is that? I have crunched the numbers on diesel half tons 6 ways from sunday. They don't save money. One thing that most people dont think about is the insurance. The insurance premiums for the 3.0 L duramax was quite a bit more than the 5.3. Then there's the DEF and the oil changes are more expensive and some other stuff. The real only selling point for me would be the added range with those tiny fuel tanks on the 1500s.
Thank you for the comment. The grass is zeon zoysia.
The comments about diesel power are spot on. At the end of the day, there is really one big difference when it comes to power. Diesels make power effortlessly. If you love to hear your motor wrapped up to 4000 RPMs, then get a gas. If you want your engine to lumber along at 2000 RPMs (still walking away from the gas at 4000) then save the money and get a gas.
An engine is a tool. I want the one that does the BEST job, no matter what it costs.
As always, your mileage may vary, probably pun intended... 😂
Great point. Right tool is key!
My 3500 dodge 5.9 diesel got DOUBLE. THE mileage of my 1 ton Chev long bed pulling my 5th wheel....till TODAY when i was told i needed 15 000.00 to fix the Dodge 3500...9000.00 in parts and 6000.00 labor...
Injectors , fuel pump in tank,
5.9s are a breeze to work on, do it yourself it really isn’t very hard.
💯I agree I prefer the diesel for its power/torque/sound but sold my Duramax and got a 2500HD gasser as they look identical, fuel is far less here in Cali, registration, maintenance etc. again I enjoyed the diesel far more especially the 10x a year I tow but couldn’t justify all the additional expenses. Our state really bends you over for owning diesel but in 6 yrs when I retire out of state it will be the first thing I buy again just cause they are cool to drive loved them since I was a kid.
So one point you missed. At the end of 5 years the diesel sells for more than 10k more than its gas brother.
Now the additional costs of def and tires seem to wear quicker.
My reason for diesel are the premium features you mentioned. I live in the mountains and the exhaust brakes and torque are needed.
Thank you for the comment. Stay tuned in weeks ahead for more detailed follow-up video on the resale topic.
I keep both and disagree with diesel's not being a financial advantage. I typically purchase older, well broken in (depreciated) vehicles, as I have my own shop to do the repairs as needed. I can pick up a 25 year old f350 with the 7.3 International engine for around $7,000 right now on a truck that has around 200,000 miles but with approximately 5k into the transmission and 15k into the engine that 27k total expense will last for 300k miles. Try that with even a 15 year old gas and you will be replacing way too many things to make the truck work vs the diesel. That said, I like my gas trucks, I drive newer gas and old diesel.
I agree, I had a duramax with a cold air intake, aftermarket straight exhaust and tuned for better torque, hp and mileage and I got phenomenal mileage. I am in Canada so the mpg doesn’t cross correctly but on average everyday driving on a 120L tank I would get about 850-900 kilometres and I had right around 415 hp and 875 ft/lbs torque and now I have downgraded to the 1/2 ton 5.3l with the same intake, aftermarket exhaust and the same programable tuner but for gas and my fuel mileage is only about 2/3 what I got with the diesel 3/4. The thing is the maintenance cost. The newer diesel’s in whatever GM, dodge, ford even left stock is eventually going to have head gaskets go. Unless you put out the extra money to change the head bolts to studs, which still didn’t guarantee it. On a new vehicle with a BIG “IF” warranty will cover it then it should be ok. If not, you’ll be looking at a $15-20 thousand dollar CAD repair because it destroys a few parts and is very labour intensive. Same thing with all other maintenance, you have the cost of DEF, oil filters more expensive, oil change is more volume to fill, steering parts for wheel alignment are more expensive, brakes are more expensive, basically everything on the truck is more expensive because of the fact that it is more of a heavy duty part to accept the torque of the diesel and the weight as well. Even in the hotshot situation, the diesel trucks are so much heavier and not everywhere but here in Alberta, most hotshot are for oil and gas industry and the access roads are not always the most maintained so you may need to factor in recovery charges because of the heavier truck getting stuck easier, the front end being pounded on and all the extra maintenance costs of putting on that many miles at higher costs for basic maintenance. And hotshot drivers pay through the roof for insurance, so when you also factor in insurance on a $75-80k gas or a $90-110k diesel truck (Canadian dollars). It still doesn’t make any sense unless you have the money and you like the extra power and aren’t buying a vehicle with an economic value in mind. You made a great point and with just simple things but if you’re thinking about a diesel truck and have to be money conscious, there’s a lot more reasons to look at which makes buying a gas truck so much more appealing on the pocket book than most people think of.🍻
Great points, thank you for the comment.
For me with all the emission problems and cost of modern diesel pickups and high cost my solution for rv towing is going to be an older non def class 8 truck that will be singled. I will keep a gas half ton truck for around the house truck stuff and tow with the big truck.
Great point, and solution.
Great comparison video! I learned a lot. Thanks.
Thank you for the comment!
There are a few things you didn’t touch on. The resale value on the diesel will be much higher then the gasser, of course with DEF you do eat up any fuel savings when towing. I would think if you used your truck year round just for work, the diesel’s longevity and resale might edge out a gasser.
I own a 2020 F-250 with the 7.3 Godzilla and I tow 16000lbs daily and plow snow in the winter. The only time my truck isn’t working is when I’m doing estimates on jobsites. The 7.3 has been a good engine but there are definitely times I wish I had the extra torque for pulling grades and the exhaust brake for slowing down.
Thank you for the comment. Stay tuned in weeks ahead for more detailed follow-up video on the resale topic.