I’m really enjoying all the frequent uploads, professor! Thank you for all the hard work and effort you put into these videos, it is greatly appreciated.
Thanks for this! I hesitated to click on it because the title is similar to ones used by countless clickbait channels, the kind that are usually narrated by AI robots :D But I've followed your channel long enough to know that your approach to mysterious history is always factual. Well done!
You're the only dude on RUclips who can just talk to a camera about these subjects and still be engaging. I really enjoy it, I also like that you don't cover the same tired old topics!
The Nibelungenlied should be mentioned, a piece of poetry written in old German sometime in the 1200's (yes that is some 800 years after the actual event) that places the wedding of Etzel King of the Huns and Kriemhild a Queen from Bourgogne in today's Poechlarn a town at the Danube. A dark and gripping tale of revenge, hatched by Kriemhild against her own family, for having murdered her beloved young royal husband Siegfried. She used King Etzel as the tool to eradicate her own family, right there at the wedding, as they had traveled down the Danube, all very neatly described with names of the nobles, and their deaths at the hand of the huns. King Etzel is the only one alive at the end of the lied, Kriemhild finally having been murdered by her own family. A gruesome, bloody, tale but probably a mix of stories about the real events, as they had been told, and retold, over the centuries and morphed into what was finally written down as a fine piece of literature in old German.
It sounds as if they needed a Hunnic Sherlock Holmes to solve this one. Speaking of which... Holmes's creator, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, wrote a story entitled "The Coming of the Huns" (1910) that is definitely worth checking out for anyone interested in this period.
As any student of Anime will know, Atilla turned to see his young and beautiful new wife unclothed and immediately started having a massive nose bleed... Unfortunately at his age this turned fatal... See? Who says watching cartoons can't be educational :)
His? I remember Fate Extella and Attila is a girl. A giant from space sent to destroy the Earth, in fact... After a few times resets in the Moon Cell, reborn as toddler with king Arthur and Tamamo no Mae as mothers... It's a long story.
Dear Professor Miano. I have been enjoying your channel for quite some time, highly value what you do in terms of debunking pseudo-science and popularizing proper history. However, this topic may be the first where I may have something to say with certain authority. I have spent last 11 years researching 5th century Roman diplomacy, military history, and secret operations, having done my PhD and written 2 books and several articles on such subjects. It is a good and pleasant to the ear recounting of major points on the mystery of Attila's death, yet, I may have some insights I hope you find interesting. First, a minor correction. 3:17 - Marcellinus did not get the date wrong. In his Chronicle the death of Attila appears under the year 454, however, Marcellinus writes years according to the indictions (the tax years essentially), and at his time those were counted from September (of previous year) to August. Marcellinus mentions death of Attila as the first event of the passage, which usually indicates it was an earlier event, which would place it at some point in the seconf half of the year 453. 5:21 - Marcian was not paying money to Attila, that was the main difference in how himself conducted the policy towards the Huns. It was a cause of great tensions between both parties, and even likely a cause for a small scale Hun invasion of Balkans in 451 (in which Marcian personally took to the field). Still, he had plenty of reasons to want to get rid of Attila. Besides, it is true that Jordanes mentioned Priscus, but to what extent he actually used him is debatable. I have compared the accounts of Priscus and Jordanes many a time, when trying to puzzle out the events around Roman-Ostrogothic relations in mid 5th century, and they are almost completely separate from each other. Jordanes certainly did his own selection, especially when mentioning the deeds of the Goths, because praising them was the main point of his work. Would he want to mention a Gothic princess being implicated in such a clandestine and dishonourable act? Furthermore, Attila was certainly not at the height of his power in 453. In fact, I would argue his empire was crumbling anyway, and there are several indications that his power is slipping from him already. Even the fact he decided to marry 'another' (and this is stressed by the sources that he had many wives already) woman supports that, as marriages were a way for the Hun leaders to integrate foreign tribes into the structure of the confederacy (through bonds of blood, essentially). This would only be needed in case of conquest (which no longer was happening) or appeasement/detente. Perhaps, to mend the wounds after quelling a rebellion? In Germanic legends the tale of Attila killing his wife's brothers feature prominently, and of said woman taking revenge for it. Anyway, I certainly have more observations and arguments, but they are too many for a simple youtube comment. If you'd like to discuss the above matter at greater length, I would be happy to.
I think there's a danger in interpreting any of these accounts too literally. The account that seems to suggest that Attila's bride stabbed him might just mean that she was considered guilty of murder- even today we sometimes use stabbing as a shorthand for betrayal- e.g. calling someone a 'backstabber' doesn't mean they literally stabbed anyone. Likewise, when people who saw his body said that it seemed that Attila had ben bleeding from his nose, that doesn't mean we can know that with any degree of certainty- he may have just been found with lots of blood on his face but no wounds when it was washed away- you probably shouldn't rule out poisoning or a disease that might have made him vomit blood on that basis alone. Ultimately, it was a very long time ago and most of the information about it is second-hand so there's very little way of knowing anything for sure. It was certainly convenient for Rome that he died when he did, though, whatever the cause.
Heh, even the Poetic Edda tells the story so much later and so far away from Hungary so it was certainly something people talked a lot about for a long time. And yeah, it is pretty impossible to tell what really happened without even a skeleton to investigate. It seems unlikely that his new wife poisoned him though, it would have been a bit too obvious and I have a feeling a lot of people could have given him a poisoned drink or food during the wild party if someone poisoned him. She could have stuck a thin bladed knife up his noose when he was sleeping but again, she would have gotten caught and killed so that would be rather stupid and someone would have found the blade so it also seems unlikely. I would guess it was natural causes but it is impossible to be sure what killed "the scourge of God", at least unless someone finds his grave and even then, it might not be possible to determine the cause of death.
But in the Edda, Attila is the only one surviving his wedding, as his in-laws are dying in the trap his wife Gudrun/Kriemhild devised for them. She and her newborn child also die in the ensuing battle.
@@SiqueScarface Let's just say that the story grew with the telling, but it was still talked about in Iceland 800 years after the actual event which say something.
When I was a kid I remember The History Channel had a series called 'Ancients Behaving Badly' and one episode featured Attila. They explored the theory that Attila's alcoholism killed him. I, myself, believe his death could have been something health related. He lived in a time before modern medicine and probably had an unhealthy diet. That plus the stress of war and managing an empire probably took its toll on him.
"time before medicine ... unhealty diet" people in these days were much more committed towards a healthy lifestyle. There are various accounts that people went to docotors regularly and with the intent to sustain their health, e.g. diet. Just look at traditional chinese medicine. Its heavily focused on diet.
@@jbb4105 first of all, the humor thesis was a greek/roman thing. It just further strengthens my point. If you have hardly any working treatments, you focus on the things you think you control. And thats diet. There have been multiple accounts of the importance of diet to ancient people. Sure, their scientific understanding was limited and how they figured out a health diet was as flawed as their other healing methods, as it stems from the same reasoning. Still, they promoted a health diet - maybe not to our judgment, but to the one of their time. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_and_diet_in_ancient_medicine
I like the idea of a chronic health problem killing him, like an ulcer. It seems like if he had such a condition, he would mostly have to suffer in silence and self-medicate, perhaps with alcohol, and it well befits the more reputable accounts.
Atilla went to Rome after getting a letter from Honoria, daughter of Aelia Galla Placida, begging him to relieve her from an unwanted marriage. Pope Leo I met Atilla amd sonehow convinced him not to pursue Honoria. Who knowswhat scheming went on? How did Atilla meet or choose Ildico?
Nosebleed isn’t an uncommon symptom seen in people having a Stroke. Neither is it uncommon that a heart attack causes a sudden increase in blood pressure and can cause a nose bleed! First time my dad had a Cerebral Embolism, he also had a nosebleed! Also, it’s far from uncommon to see nosebleed in traumatic brain injuries - so an unlucky fall due to drunkenness - it wouldn’t be the first or the last time someone met their demise due to in their drunkenness accidentally tripping over and bumping their head into something like an ornamented bedpost or similar! The fact that he was in his late forties or early fifties and very likely had high blood pressure, very likely had been drinking excessively, and was excited by the thought of consummating his marriage, possibly also having consumed various herbal aphrodisiacs which wasn’t uncommon for the time, and as we know now, can affect blood pressure as well - all of this leads to the conclusion that his death most likely was due to natural causes……
What if he had a health issue while in bed, fell/rolled off the bed and hit his head hard on the floor? I'm not a doctor, but wouldn't that cause the symptoms described? In that situation, the health issue could be almost anything that show no obvious symptoms that the ancient people could detect, since it is the accidental blow to the head that was the fatal part of the situation. I was surprised no one had a similar hypothesis to this one in your video. Big fan, by the way.
Or internal bleeding I'm hungarian and we know Attila was a massive alcoholic (as we would call it today) a liver rupture wouldn't be out of the question...
Can we really rule out the possibility that he was killed by Atlantians? Didn’t Attila find the Bimini road and plan to conquer Atlantis? They would have heard he was coming and likely killed him with precision not possible by todays standards.
A very interesting story, so many thanks Prof. Miano. Most sources seem to agree to the nose bleed. If a sturdy hair pin or the like were shoved up the nose and into the brain, then twisted to enlarge the internal would, that might explain the blood from the nose with no visible wound. What do you think?
I think that would be a terrible way to murder someone. It'd be hard to do and he'd have to be unbelievably drunk or drugged to sleep through it. You couldn't rely on him being that wasted, especially if he was a heavy drinker and had a high tolerance for alcohol. If you were going to drug him, then why not just poison him and get it over with that way? Far less risky than going to the extra effort of sticking a spike up his nose as well. Far more likely either it was natural causes or the people who examined the body were mistaken about where the blood came from. If someone's found dead with their face covered in blood it's probably pretty hard to say whether it came from their nose, their mouth, or somewhere else. All that several sources agreeing on a nosebleed means is that it's what the people who saw his body thought- there probably wouldn't have been a proper autopsy.
Thanks for this neat overview, Dr Miano. Now, towards the end you mention the Xiongnu. From what I remember, they are often identified as Huns-before-their-migration-West. To your knowledge, is this either correct or credible, or has it since been disproven?
Great research, so interesting. Another interesting question is who exactly were the Huns? The coin and the painting depict different ethnicities, there's obviously some debate about this. I'm pretty sure Gibbon thought they were Chinese and he was an amazing historian, what do you think?
Another possibility may be rupture of oesophageal varices. These can happen with alcoholic liver disease. Although this tends to be a bit more messy than just some blood from the nose.
This might be minor, but is there a consensus to a date of his death? Is it solid? I've seen most point to the month of March (though I haven't seen direct quotes/citations), some claiming down to the date of 16, which from little I've seen I reckon comes from an (I suppose unreliable) anecdote of Attila (in death) haunting the Roman Emporor Valentinian III on or up until the anniversary of his own death (Valentinian was assassinated on March 16, two years later).
The date is as solid as something in late antiquity can be solid, and even Marcellinus placed it in 453, because of how he dated years - Prof. Miano made a mistake - see my explanation in the comment section for the details. You have to understand there are many extraordinary and fantastical elements reported by ancient sources, for various reasons. Some facts are altered to better fit the narrative. Most people in the Roman Empire would have had no idea when exactly Attila died, and for us it is impossible to pin-point it to exact day. I have not heard of Valentinian being haunted, but Marcian supposedly had a dream of a broken bow when Attila died, indicating the end of the menace from the steppe.
The narrator himself said at one point of this video , that Attila according to one of the sources, was temperate in his drinking , so that weakens the natural death theory somewhat.
Alcohol is an unlikely reason for that death unless he was a hemophiliac. Alcohol poisoning doesn't cause massive tears, and any bleeding likely wouldn't just be from the nose. That's the problem with most ideas, only bleeding from the nose really limits possibilities. It seems to me most likely either someone (ie: wife) jammed a spike up his nose, or he hemorrhaged from his sinus or from the base of his brain/skull because of a tumor or aneurysm. Did women at the time have hairpins that were long and strong enough to do the job? If so, the wife could have stabbed him in that unusual way while he was sleeping and put the pin back in her hair, reasoning there was no way to prove murder if there was no visible stab wound (and of course, no coroners).
Thats true. The isolated nose bleed doesnt fit very well. The hypothesis of bleeding from inside of the skull can be discarded. Only in traumatic events there is a way of cerebral blood to escape through the nose. Cancers that formed in the sinuses, pharynx could cause bleedings - but they would propably have had occured before and regularly + wouldnt be sudden.
Or he got so excited in the bedroom he had a massive heart attack then fell to the floor hitting his nose and choked on his blood 🤣😂 Great show mate 🎼🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻
Statistically, what are the chances that a spouse dies the day after a wedding? What percentage is natural causes, accidents, and homicides? How often is it the spouse? Does it change over time? Famous examples in history?
There is precedent in medicine that a cerebral event can make itself known by a nosebleed that will not stop flowing. Such cases are not as rare as may be imagined. Today, there are various treatments that can be used From liquid antihistamines to coagulants used for Hemophilia. Alcohol intake can cause a raising of blood pressure to dangerous levels even if only mildly imbibed thus contributing to the problem, as it is also arterial relaxant as well as a seditive.
Could it be one of the few Viral hemorrhagic fevers like Dengue, Ebola, Lassa, Marburg, Yellow fever. I don't know if they existed back then and how he could have been infected but if not those viruses a similar or related virus (the virus that had a mutation involving into the present day viruses) is very likely possible.
Some of them did exist back then and are even described to occur in Rome. Still, it is not that likley. Those hemorraghes occur due to a pathological blood clotting. And thats systemic, so no isolated nose bleed. Also those always present with (crippling) fever, often times with other symptoms such as jaundice.
Liver cirrhosis causes the characteristic enlargement of the lower esophageal veins. When these veins rupture this results in a massive hemorrhage, with the person suffering projectile vomiting the bloody mix of contents of his stomach ( hematemesis - I am truly sorry for the graphic description). Such an event would be highly unlikely described as a nosebleed. My own theory on Attila's cause of death: he was a middle-aged man, about to marry a teenage wife, after excessive eating and drinking. His own doctors could have given him an aphrodisiac / Viagra -like substance to help him perform, resulting in him suffering a heart attack and/ or stroke. These substances can cause elevated blood pressure, which results in a nosebleed, Attila's only external symptom.
Alcoholism is not the only thing that leads to sever liver damage. Diabetes and high cholestreol contribute to nonalcoholic fatty liver disease. Hypertension usually acompanies NAFLD and epistaxis (spontaneous nosebleeds) is very common. Posterior epistaxis affect larger blood vessels in the back of the nasal cavity. If he was blackout drunk from his wedding, that much wine would thin the blood and he could have aspirated from the volume of blood that slowly poured into his airway. We also can't rule out a heart attack from over exertion in the nuptuial chambers. Add all those together, you get a dead Hun, a hysterical bride and a wallop of a mystery
Very good input. Tho I would discard the NAFLD, as it is typically seen in overweight people with high caloric diets. On the other hand there are a subset of parasites that can cause liver cirrhosis. Especially in times of pre fridge people got a lot more sicknesses from improper storage of food.
Is it possible a heavy gauge but thin instrument was jammed up his nose after he fell asleep. In other words maybe she did kill him but not in the obvious way.
Why do that? It'd be a very silly and unreliable way to do a murder. It'd be very hard to do quickly, and if you did it slowly then even if he was really drunk there's a good chance he'd wake up and either start fighting back or screaming for help. I don't know of any cases like that from the modern era, and we have much better documentation of crimes these days.
Was it a story devised to waste the time of those who were looking for his grave? A river could hardly have been diverted overnight, nor could the location of the work have remained secret, even if the men who did the work were killed.
@@faithlesshound5621 On reflection, it was probably meant to burst my bubble (!); nevertheless it sounded cool, right up to the bit where some common sense was introduced to the overall narrative... good catch, there...
It was a *wedding night*, for Christ's sake. And he was no spring chicken. "Atilla was now sixtyish. His mind was weakening, and he decided to marry again, as he had been so terribly misunderstood the first three hundred times. So he married Ildico, or Hilda, a beautiful blond damsel whose parents he had recently slaughtered in Gaul. Next morning he was found dead in bed. Ildico was sitting there, looking straight at the corpse and jabbering in a strange tongue. When they asked her if she had murdered her husband, she kept right on sputtering umlauts. They dropped it and nobody knows to this day what happened during that night in June. It could have been a stroke. (Some say he simply burst a blood vessel. It's happened before.)" -- Will Cuppy, THE DECLINE AND FALL OF PRACTICALLY EVERYBODY (BARNES & NOBLE, 1992)
she may have given him a karate punch to the nose (accidentally pushing him away in his drunken state ), or he may have fallen on his nose off the bed onto the floor ....
Too funny! There are lots of sexy seniors. Nobody ever noted that he was paunchy or slack like Henry VIII. And thanks for letting me know that Will Cuppy is still in (fairly) recent print. I have JOE THE WOUNDED TENNIS PLAYER somewhere, from my father's library.
So "halting problems" in scientific conclusions are seldom know to happen, right? :) That wouldn't lead to some folks accepting an Aristophanean "Archanian Peace" to resolve cognitive dissonance from not knowing. And others might not manipulate others to adopt a particular Archanian Peace to cause cognitive dissonance in one group versus another. That certainly isn't politics in 2023. I think we can agree that even A Modest Proposal should be vigilantly reviewed. :) Sun Tzu on one side, and Semper vigilantes on the other, perhaps.
Whit all the respect to this channel…I am a Hungarian and I know the western world still hate us ….but in our folklore Attila was a vegetarian wise man , never drunken, spoke 7 languages and gave a mercy to Rome….by the way Hitler was a vegetarian too 😇😮💨
Hmm perhaps she hit him in the nose with something. Hit at the right angle is instant death as those bones are shoved into the brain. It could have been an accident or not.
Wouldn't be the first person to die from aspirating their own vomit after drinking, and he certainly wouldn't have been the last. And one wouldn't have to be a long term alcoholic for that to happen. At the first mention of the name Priscus, for a second wondered if it was the same Priscus that educated Julian the Apostate. But obviously not. Priscus must have been a popular name.
The Huns themselves are rather mysterious bunch, arent they? Most of what we know of their origin is speculation at best... Who were they, where did they came from, where did they go, what language did they speak? Was there even a language that can be called "Hunnic" or Attila's loose confederation was a mix of everyone and anyone who felt like joining up with their own languages? Yes, I know about "Xiongnu" hypothesis, but the timing is wrong and by a large margin, plus if such a "horde" would travel all the way from where China is, that would've been noticed, right? Where the Huns locals? Where they of middle east or Asian origin? Why Attila's and his brother Bleda names are so interesting? Are those Germanic names? Slavic? Norse? Easily could've been either one of those. I can think of several archaic Slavic and Germanic words/names that could've been the root of those names. Hardly of Asian origin, but I dont speak any of those modern day languages, let alone their archaic versions so its hard to say. Maybe. All in all, the Huns are fascinating in their achievements as well as the knowledge (or rather lack of it) we have on who they were. Almost like the fabled "Sea peoples" who came out of nowhere, killed the Bronze Age world powers and... Poof... Gone without a trace..... Must've been aliens or Atlantians :) Jokes aside though, I really wish we knew more about the Huns and Sea Peoples
I think it might be sort of a raiding group that got rich and strong enough to take on armies and such and evolved over time into an established power, with no real country origin just taking on traits of the largest part of the group or leaders.
Not that much. I can answer at least some of your questions. All answers refer to the times of Attila. - They spoke Gothic, they also had some sort of language of their own, but we do not know what language family was it exactly (most likely Turkic or Altaic) and whether it was used commonly or was mostly superceded by Gothic - It was a confederation - Attila and Bleda are Germanic names - Attila means most likely 'little father' (-ila is a diminutive ending), or comes from the Hunnic name of river Volga (Atil), Bleda is a pretty common Germanic name, we know of some more people bearing that name from that time period
@@hoggypare7629 1 - Sure they spoke Gothic, or a version of it. That much is known, but that was the Lingua franca of their empire, thats not what I was asking though :) 2 - Yup, it was a confederation 3 - Maybe. Those names could've been Germanic, sure. But could've been of some other origin. Just for the sake of argument, I'll say that its not of Germanic origin, but of Slavic and Attila is actually a nickname Hattilo (the H would be very very soft there, almost silent) and that means the "hitter" or "smasher" in several archaic Slavic languages and I think modern day Ukrainian still has a similar word. Quite fitting for a warrior, dont you think? Bleda quite literally means "the pale one" or it could be "one with a foul mouth" or "gossiper". Ruga or Rugila was a common Slavic name too. Uldin however is almost certainly Germanic, at least to my ear, but I've heard counter arguments on Uldin from Scandinavians saying its one of theirs. The point is we just dont know. We can argue till we are blue in the face, come up with all kinds of ideas, but we just do not know. And thats a shame.
We know more of the "Sea Peoples" who attacked, occupied and enslaved the Americas, Africa, Asia and Australasia from the 15th to the 20th centuries. They were unwashed bearded men hailing from Europe, who brought with them the religion of Capitalism. What drove from their homes seems to have been economic, what allowed their success was the invention of the limited liability company plus improved killing technology. They seized raw commodities and finished goods, but above all they prized addictive substances: opium, tea and coffee, and in turn they traded alcohol. They exacted "Danegeld" from their victims by taxing the subjects they ruled directly and demanding monetary "tribute" from their local allies. By the 1780's so much of the dividend paid by the East India Company to its shareholders came from taxation that they withdrew from general trade, keeping only the opium business. Wealth still flows from the global South to the global North, but occupying troops have been replaced by local elites managed by the Chinese Communist Party, Bharatiya Janata Party, etc. Some of the impoverished masses from the South risk their lives to go to the lands their ancestors worked and paid to build up. They are in turn demonised as "illegals" and "boat people." Will they manage to overthrow the structures that keep them in misery?
He might’ve dropped his phone on his face as he nodded off.
I’m really enjoying all the frequent uploads, professor! Thank you for all the hard work and effort you put into these videos, it is greatly appreciated.
Glad you like them!
@@WorldofAntiquityThat's why we're here. Your content is extremely interesting.
Thanks for this! I hesitated to click on it because the title is similar to ones used by countless clickbait channels, the kind that are usually narrated by AI robots :D But I've followed your channel long enough to know that your approach to mysterious history is always factual. Well done!
You're the only dude on RUclips who can just talk to a camera about these subjects and still be engaging. I really enjoy it, I also like that you don't cover the same tired old topics!
Excellent, interesting, educational and entertaining. You have another subscriber
The Nibelungenlied should be mentioned, a piece of poetry written in old German sometime in the 1200's (yes that is some 800 years after the actual event) that places the wedding of Etzel King of the Huns and Kriemhild a Queen from Bourgogne in today's Poechlarn a town at the Danube. A dark and gripping tale of revenge, hatched by Kriemhild against her own family, for having murdered her beloved young royal husband Siegfried. She used King Etzel as the tool to eradicate her own family, right there at the wedding, as they had traveled down the Danube, all very neatly described with names of the nobles, and their deaths at the hand of the huns. King Etzel is the only one alive at the end of the lied, Kriemhild finally having been murdered by her own family. A gruesome, bloody, tale but probably a mix of stories about the real events, as they had been told, and retold, over the centuries and morphed into what was finally written down as a fine piece of literature in old German.
Tiny correction. The text is written in Middle High German, not Old German.
Brilliant and non-dogmatic as always Dr.
Good observation 😊
You're enthusiasm is contagious. Great video! Thanks
Thank you for the frequent uploads and amazing videos. Your content is exactly what has been missing on YT.
Thanks again.
It sounds as if they needed a Hunnic Sherlock Holmes to solve this one. Speaking of which... Holmes's creator, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, wrote a story entitled "The Coming of the Huns" (1910) that is definitely worth checking out for anyone interested in this period.
As any student of Anime will know, Atilla turned to see his young and beautiful new wife unclothed and immediately started having a massive nose bleed... Unfortunately at his age this turned fatal... See? Who says watching cartoons can't be educational :)
Only to be isekai into a world of science as a scholar.
The real hardcore fans know he was actually a chick/bunny titan.
which anime is this? i want to watch!
@@nozrepliterally all of them
His? I remember Fate Extella and Attila is a girl. A giant from space sent to destroy the Earth, in fact... After a few times resets in the Moon Cell, reborn as toddler with king Arthur and Tamamo no Mae as mothers... It's a long story.
Dear Professor Miano. I have been enjoying your channel for quite some time, highly value what you do in terms of debunking pseudo-science and popularizing proper history. However, this topic may be the first where I may have something to say with certain authority. I have spent last 11 years researching 5th century Roman diplomacy, military history, and secret operations, having done my PhD and written 2 books and several articles on such subjects.
It is a good and pleasant to the ear recounting of major points on the mystery of Attila's death, yet, I may have some insights I hope you find interesting.
First, a minor correction.
3:17 - Marcellinus did not get the date wrong. In his Chronicle the death of Attila appears under the year 454, however, Marcellinus writes years according to the indictions (the tax years essentially), and at his time those were counted from September (of previous year) to August. Marcellinus mentions death of Attila as the first event of the passage, which usually indicates it was an earlier event, which would place it at some point in the seconf half of the year 453.
5:21 - Marcian was not paying money to Attila, that was the main difference in how himself conducted the policy towards the Huns. It was a cause of great tensions between both parties, and even likely a cause for a small scale Hun invasion of Balkans in 451 (in which Marcian personally took to the field). Still, he had plenty of reasons to want to get rid of Attila.
Besides, it is true that Jordanes mentioned Priscus, but to what extent he actually used him is debatable. I have compared the accounts of Priscus and Jordanes many a time, when trying to puzzle out the events around Roman-Ostrogothic relations in mid 5th century, and they are almost completely separate from each other. Jordanes certainly did his own selection, especially when mentioning the deeds of the Goths, because praising them was the main point of his work. Would he want to mention a Gothic princess being implicated in such a clandestine and dishonourable act? Furthermore, Attila was certainly not at the height of his power in 453. In fact, I would argue his empire was crumbling anyway, and there are several indications that his power is slipping from him already. Even the fact he decided to marry 'another' (and this is stressed by the sources that he had many wives already) woman supports that, as marriages were a way for the Hun leaders to integrate foreign tribes into the structure of the confederacy (through bonds of blood, essentially). This would only be needed in case of conquest (which no longer was happening) or appeasement/detente. Perhaps, to mend the wounds after quelling a rebellion? In Germanic legends the tale of Attila killing his wife's brothers feature prominently, and of said woman taking revenge for it.
Anyway, I certainly have more observations and arguments, but they are too many for a simple youtube comment. If you'd like to discuss the above matter at greater length, I would be happy to.
Amazing video(as usual). Thank you for your truthful and enjoyable content. Exactly what is needed to be seen. I hope to see the day you hit 1m subs.
I think there's a danger in interpreting any of these accounts too literally. The account that seems to suggest that Attila's bride stabbed him might just mean that she was considered guilty of murder- even today we sometimes use stabbing as a shorthand for betrayal- e.g. calling someone a 'backstabber' doesn't mean they literally stabbed anyone. Likewise, when people who saw his body said that it seemed that Attila had ben bleeding from his nose, that doesn't mean we can know that with any degree of certainty- he may have just been found with lots of blood on his face but no wounds when it was washed away- you probably shouldn't rule out poisoning or a disease that might have made him vomit blood on that basis alone. Ultimately, it was a very long time ago and most of the information about it is second-hand so there's very little way of knowing anything for sure. It was certainly convenient for Rome that he died when he did, though, whatever the cause.
I imagine everyone in the ancient world was essentially at the mercy of whichever maniac was running the show.
Heh, even the Poetic Edda tells the story so much later and so far away from Hungary so it was certainly something people talked a lot about for a long time.
And yeah, it is pretty impossible to tell what really happened without even a skeleton to investigate. It seems unlikely that his new wife poisoned him though, it would have been a bit too obvious and I have a feeling a lot of people could have given him a poisoned drink or food during the wild party if someone poisoned him.
She could have stuck a thin bladed knife up his noose when he was sleeping but again, she would have gotten caught and killed so that would be rather stupid and someone would have found the blade so it also seems unlikely.
I would guess it was natural causes but it is impossible to be sure what killed "the scourge of God", at least unless someone finds his grave and even then, it might not be possible to determine the cause of death.
But in the Edda, Attila is the only one surviving his wedding, as his in-laws are dying in the trap his wife Gudrun/Kriemhild devised for them. She and her newborn child also die in the ensuing battle.
@@SiqueScarface Let's just say that the story grew with the telling, but it was still talked about in Iceland 800 years after the actual event which say something.
When I was a kid I remember The History Channel had a series called 'Ancients Behaving Badly' and one episode featured Attila. They explored the theory that Attila's alcoholism killed him. I, myself, believe his death could have been something health related. He lived in a time before modern medicine and probably had an unhealthy diet. That plus the stress of war and managing an empire probably took its toll on him.
"time before medicine ... unhealty diet" people in these days were much more committed towards a healthy lifestyle. There are various accounts that people went to docotors regularly and with the intent to sustain their health, e.g. diet.
Just look at traditional chinese medicine. Its heavily focused on diet.
Yep, all of that plant-based slop plus alcohol is slow poison. 🐌 Meat and mare's milk, on the other hand ✋️
Death is very much health related.
@@stschneg71doctors back then still believed in the four humors lmao
@@jbb4105 first of all, the humor thesis was a greek/roman thing.
It just further strengthens my point. If you have hardly any working treatments, you focus on the things you think you control. And thats diet. There have been multiple accounts of the importance of diet to ancient people.
Sure, their scientific understanding was limited and how they figured out a health diet was as flawed as their other healing methods, as it stems from the same reasoning. Still, they promoted a health diet - maybe not to our judgment, but to the one of their time.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_and_diet_in_ancient_medicine
great video David!
Great content, I really enjoy your videos.
I like the idea of a chronic health problem killing him, like an ulcer. It seems like if he had such a condition, he would mostly have to suffer in silence and self-medicate, perhaps with alcohol, and it well befits the more reputable accounts.
Atilla went to Rome after getting a letter from Honoria, daughter of Aelia Galla Placida, begging him to relieve her from an unwanted marriage. Pope Leo I met Atilla amd sonehow convinced him not to pursue Honoria. Who knowswhat scheming went on? How did Atilla meet or choose Ildico?
Thankyou! This is very interesting and I learned things I didn’t know.
The Dwight Schrute fit is fitting. Love it!
Nosebleed isn’t an uncommon symptom seen in people having a Stroke.
Neither is it uncommon that a heart attack causes a sudden increase in blood pressure and can cause a nose bleed!
First time my dad had a Cerebral Embolism, he also had a nosebleed!
Also, it’s far from uncommon to see nosebleed in traumatic brain injuries - so an unlucky fall due to drunkenness - it wouldn’t be the first or the last time someone met their demise due to in their drunkenness accidentally tripping over and bumping their head into something like an ornamented bedpost or similar!
The fact that he was in his late forties or early fifties and very likely had high blood pressure, very likely had been drinking excessively, and was excited by the thought of consummating his marriage, possibly also having consumed various herbal aphrodisiacs which wasn’t uncommon for the time, and as we know now, can affect blood pressure as well - all of this leads to the conclusion that his death most likely was due to natural causes……
Thanks. I love the mystery vids.
Interesting stuff. Thank you!
Huzzah professor, a mighty tale told of intrigue.
Atila would not be the first or last man to expire while, um, pleasing his new, and younger, wife.
What if he had a health issue while in bed, fell/rolled off the bed and hit his head hard on the floor? I'm not a doctor, but wouldn't that cause the symptoms described? In that situation, the health issue could be almost anything that show no obvious symptoms that the ancient people could detect, since it is the accidental blow to the head that was the fatal part of the situation. I was surprised no one had a similar hypothesis to this one in your video. Big fan, by the way.
Or internal bleeding I'm hungarian and we know Attila was a massive alcoholic (as we would call it today) a liver rupture wouldn't be out of the question...
Can we really rule out the possibility that he was killed by Atlantians? Didn’t Attila find the Bimini road and plan to conquer Atlantis? They would have heard he was coming and likely killed him with precision not possible by todays standards.
Can't wait to see what theories Ben and Jimmy make up this time lol
I favour the mind controlled yaka arrow hypothesis. No doubt precision engineered.
I personally believe Attila was flat.
It was the herbs on roast. Yew and hemlock.
Nope! Totaly the work of Aliens.
Awesome video!
Thanks!
A very interesting story, so many thanks Prof. Miano. Most sources seem to agree to the nose bleed. If a sturdy hair pin or the like were shoved up the nose and into the brain, then twisted to enlarge the internal would, that might explain the blood from the nose with no visible wound. What do you think?
I think that would be a terrible way to murder someone. It'd be hard to do and he'd have to be unbelievably drunk or drugged to sleep through it. You couldn't rely on him being that wasted, especially if he was a heavy drinker and had a high tolerance for alcohol. If you were going to drug him, then why not just poison him and get it over with that way? Far less risky than going to the extra effort of sticking a spike up his nose as well.
Far more likely either it was natural causes or the people who examined the body were mistaken about where the blood came from. If someone's found dead with their face covered in blood it's probably pretty hard to say whether it came from their nose, their mouth, or somewhere else. All that several sources agreeing on a nosebleed means is that it's what the people who saw his body thought- there probably wouldn't have been a proper autopsy.
Thanks, Doc.
Another great video and learned something new 🎉
great material!
The murder weapon wasn't preserved, and the body wasn't autopsied, or if he was, we haven't retained the protocols, so we don't know.
The 5th century version of a rock 'n' roll death?
Fascinating! Thanks
Thanks for this neat overview, Dr Miano. Now, towards the end you mention the Xiongnu. From what I remember, they are often identified as Huns-before-their-migration-West. To your knowledge, is this either correct or credible, or has it since been disproven?
Oh we do love an unsolved mystery.
Maybe he did a Tycho Brahe. It’s amazing what holding it too long can do…
Love the vids, more please😊
In India there is a group of people who carry the surname 'Hoon' and they look some what caucasian .
I almost bled out from a nosebleed after a botched sinus operation...very possible it was just a nosebleed due to a an injury.
Could occur spontantanously, too. E.g. high blood pressure, malformations
I really like this mysteries series
Great research, so interesting.
Another interesting question is who exactly were the Huns?
The coin and the painting depict different ethnicities, there's obviously some debate about this.
I'm pretty sure Gibbon thought they were Chinese and he was an amazing historian, what do you think?
Another possibility may be rupture of oesophageal varices. These can happen with alcoholic liver disease.
Although this tends to be a bit more messy than just some blood from the nose.
Yes, that usually leads to haematemesis, not haemoptysis.
reminds me about the stories on How Djingis khan met his death.
Dang now you mention that other homicidal maniac
Awesome video
This might be minor, but is there a consensus to a date of his death? Is it solid?
I've seen most point to the month of March (though I haven't seen direct quotes/citations), some claiming down to the date of 16, which from little I've seen I reckon comes from an (I suppose unreliable) anecdote of Attila (in death) haunting the Roman Emporor Valentinian III on or up until the anniversary of his own death (Valentinian was assassinated on March 16, two years later).
The date is as solid as something in late antiquity can be solid, and even Marcellinus placed it in 453, because of how he dated years - Prof. Miano made a mistake - see my explanation in the comment section for the details.
You have to understand there are many extraordinary and fantastical elements reported by ancient sources, for various reasons. Some facts are altered to better fit the narrative. Most people in the Roman Empire would have had no idea when exactly Attila died, and for us it is impossible to pin-point it to exact day.
I have not heard of Valentinian being haunted, but Marcian supposedly had a dream of a broken bow when Attila died, indicating the end of the menace from the steppe.
The narrator himself said at one point of this video , that Attila according to one of the sources, was temperate in his drinking , so that weakens the natural death theory somewhat.
Alcohol is an unlikely reason for that death unless he was a hemophiliac. Alcohol poisoning doesn't cause massive tears, and any bleeding likely wouldn't just be from the nose. That's the problem with most ideas, only bleeding from the nose really limits possibilities. It seems to me most likely either someone (ie: wife) jammed a spike up his nose, or he hemorrhaged from his sinus or from the base of his brain/skull because of a tumor or aneurysm. Did women at the time have hairpins that were long and strong enough to do the job? If so, the wife could have stabbed him in that unusual way while he was sleeping and put the pin back in her hair, reasoning there was no way to prove murder if there was no visible stab wound (and of course, no coroners).
Thats true. The isolated nose bleed doesnt fit very well.
The hypothesis of bleeding from inside of the skull can be discarded. Only in traumatic events there is a way of cerebral blood to escape through the nose.
Cancers that formed in the sinuses, pharynx could cause bleedings - but they would propably have had occured before and regularly + wouldnt be sudden.
love the channel
Your are the biggest geek in the world ! King of the nerds ! Lord of the swats ! And I ❤it ! Don’t stop ever !
This story brings to mind the story of Judith slaying Holofernes.
I just watched UnchartedX channel. Probably aliens did it.
Attila ... ATLAnTIs
Marcian ... Martian
Coincidence? I think not.
Or he got so excited in the bedroom he had a massive heart attack then
fell to the floor hitting his nose and choked on his blood 🤣😂
Great show mate 🎼🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻
Statistically, what are the chances that a spouse dies the day after a wedding? What percentage is natural causes, accidents, and homicides? How often is it the spouse? Does it change over time? Famous examples in history?
Well during this time the wife would also end her life on the husband death.
Should make something for Cyrus's death.
There is precedent in medicine that a cerebral event can make itself known by a nosebleed that will not stop flowing. Such cases are not as rare as may be imagined. Today, there are various treatments that can be used From liquid antihistamines to coagulants used for Hemophilia.
Alcohol intake can cause a raising of blood pressure to dangerous levels even if only mildly imbibed thus contributing to the problem, as it is also arterial relaxant as well as a seditive.
Thank you Attila for showing up for the Xiongnu!🙌
Love your work. Why the move from GENGHIS to JENGHIS?
It's more correct.
So do we know what happened to Ildico ?Presumably she was under sufficient suspicion to be executed on the chance she had killed him.
No one knows for sure...
Thanks!
And thank you!
Massive overdose of deadly nightshade
I heard that Atilla visited Pope Leo right before he died.
Could it be one of the few Viral hemorrhagic fevers like Dengue, Ebola, Lassa, Marburg, Yellow fever. I don't know if they existed back then and how he could have been infected but if not those viruses a similar or related virus (the virus that had a mutation involving into the present day viruses) is very likely possible.
Some of them did exist back then and are even described to occur in Rome.
Still, it is not that likley. Those hemorraghes occur due to a pathological blood clotting. And thats systemic, so no isolated nose bleed.
Also those always present with (crippling) fever, often times with other symptoms such as jaundice.
Liver cirrhosis causes the characteristic enlargement of the lower esophageal veins. When these veins rupture this results in a massive hemorrhage, with the person suffering projectile vomiting the bloody mix of contents of his stomach ( hematemesis - I am truly sorry for the graphic description). Such an event would be highly unlikely described as a nosebleed.
My own theory on Attila's cause of death: he was a middle-aged man, about to marry a teenage wife, after excessive eating and drinking. His own doctors could have given him an aphrodisiac / Viagra -like substance to help him perform, resulting in him suffering a heart attack and/ or stroke. These substances can cause elevated blood pressure, which results in a nosebleed, Attila's only external symptom.
Alcoholism is not the only thing that leads to sever liver damage. Diabetes and high cholestreol contribute to nonalcoholic fatty liver disease. Hypertension usually acompanies NAFLD and epistaxis (spontaneous nosebleeds) is very common. Posterior epistaxis affect larger blood vessels in the back of the nasal cavity. If he was blackout drunk from his wedding, that much wine would thin the blood and he could have aspirated from the volume of blood that slowly poured into his airway. We also can't rule out a heart attack from over exertion in the nuptuial chambers. Add all those together, you get a dead Hun, a hysterical bride and a wallop of a mystery
Very good input. Tho I would discard the NAFLD, as it is typically seen in overweight people with high caloric diets.
On the other hand there are a subset of parasites that can cause liver cirrhosis. Especially in times of pre fridge people got a lot more sicknesses from improper storage of food.
So what happened to his bride?
NAFLD can result in portal hypertension.
Esophageal varices
Is it possible a heavy gauge but thin instrument was jammed up his nose after he fell asleep. In other words maybe she did kill him but not in the obvious way.
Why do that? It'd be a very silly and unreliable way to do a murder. It'd be very hard to do quickly, and if you did it slowly then even if he was really drunk there's a good chance he'd wake up and either start fighting back or screaming for help. I don't know of any cases like that from the modern era, and we have much better documentation of crimes these days.
I read a good book on this - The Night Attila Died Solving the Murder of Attila the Hun by Michael A. Babcock, Ph.D. Berkley Books, New York 2005
This was a fun video
For the love of speculation: Kinky bedroom accident.
Didn't the Huns also divert a river over his grave to further conceal it? That's commitment!
Was it a story devised to waste the time of those who were looking for his grave? A river could hardly have been diverted overnight, nor could the location of the work have remained secret, even if the men who did the work were killed.
@@faithlesshound5621 On reflection, it was probably meant to burst my bubble (!); nevertheless it sounded cool, right up to the bit where some common sense was introduced to the overall narrative... good catch, there...
Ildikó is still a popular name. So is Attila. Apparently it was Hildaz, Gothic. Ottily.
The Scourge of God was hammered by God.
Same as Alexander! Didn’t these people of official taste testers?
Thanks
And thank you!
It was a *wedding night*, for Christ's sake. And he was no spring chicken. "Atilla was now sixtyish. His mind was weakening, and he decided to marry again, as he had been so terribly misunderstood the first three hundred times. So he married Ildico, or Hilda, a beautiful blond damsel whose parents he had recently slaughtered in Gaul. Next morning he was found dead in bed. Ildico was sitting there, looking straight at the corpse and jabbering in a strange tongue. When they asked her if she had murdered her husband, she kept right on sputtering umlauts. They dropped it and nobody knows to this day what happened during that night in June. It could have been a stroke. (Some say he simply burst a blood vessel. It's happened before.)" -- Will Cuppy, THE DECLINE AND FALL OF PRACTICALLY EVERYBODY (BARNES & NOBLE, 1992)
she may have given him a karate punch to the nose (accidentally pushing him away in his drunken state ), or he may have fallen on his nose off the bed onto the floor ....
Too funny! There are lots of sexy seniors. Nobody ever noted that he was paunchy or slack like Henry VIII.
And thanks for letting me know that Will Cuppy is still in (fairly) recent print. I have JOE THE WOUNDED TENNIS PLAYER somewhere, from my father's library.
Dang... More, MORE MORE!!!!!!
Could choking on vomit trigger a nosebleed?
Attila the hun killed by his hun....linguistically convenient.
Poison ☠ 😊
So "halting problems" in scientific conclusions are seldom know to happen, right? :) That wouldn't lead to some folks accepting an Aristophanean "Archanian Peace" to resolve cognitive dissonance from not knowing. And others might not manipulate others to adopt a particular Archanian Peace to cause cognitive dissonance in one group versus another. That certainly isn't politics in 2023. I think we can agree that even A Modest Proposal should be vigilantly reviewed. :) Sun Tzu on one side, and Semper vigilantes on the other, perhaps.
Whit all the respect to this channel…I am a Hungarian and I know the western world still hate us ….but in our folklore Attila was a vegetarian wise man , never drunken, spoke 7 languages and gave a mercy to Rome….by the way Hitler was a vegetarian too 😇😮💨
Hmm perhaps she hit him in the nose with something. Hit at the right angle is instant death as those bones are shoved into the brain. It could have been an accident or not.
Im supposedly related to attila the hun
Like the dred pirate Roberts, Attila was many people.
But did he fulfill his wedding night duties before he died? We want to know if he died happy.
Interesting
Wouldn't be the first person to die from aspirating their own vomit after drinking, and he certainly wouldn't have been the last. And one wouldn't have to be a long term alcoholic for that to happen. At the first mention of the name Priscus, for a second wondered if it was the same Priscus that educated Julian the Apostate. But obviously not. Priscus must have been a popular name.
The Huns themselves are rather mysterious bunch, arent they? Most of what we know of their origin is speculation at best... Who were they, where did they came from, where did they go, what language did they speak? Was there even a language that can be called "Hunnic" or Attila's loose confederation was a mix of everyone and anyone who felt like joining up with their own languages? Yes, I know about "Xiongnu" hypothesis, but the timing is wrong and by a large margin, plus if such a "horde" would travel all the way from where China is, that would've been noticed, right? Where the Huns locals? Where they of middle east or Asian origin? Why Attila's and his brother Bleda names are so interesting? Are those Germanic names? Slavic? Norse? Easily could've been either one of those. I can think of several archaic Slavic and Germanic words/names that could've been the root of those names. Hardly of Asian origin, but I dont speak any of those modern day languages, let alone their archaic versions so its hard to say. Maybe. All in all, the Huns are fascinating in their achievements as well as the knowledge (or rather lack of it) we have on who they were. Almost like the fabled "Sea peoples" who came out of nowhere, killed the Bronze Age world powers and... Poof... Gone without a trace..... Must've been aliens or Atlantians :) Jokes aside though, I really wish we knew more about the Huns and Sea Peoples
I think it might be sort of a raiding group that got rich and strong enough to take on armies and such and evolved over time into an established power, with no real country origin just taking on traits of the largest part of the group or leaders.
Not that much. I can answer at least some of your questions. All answers refer to the times of Attila.
- They spoke Gothic, they also had some sort of language of their own, but we do not know what language family was it exactly (most likely Turkic or Altaic) and whether it was used commonly or was mostly superceded by Gothic
- It was a confederation
- Attila and Bleda are Germanic names - Attila means most likely 'little father' (-ila is a diminutive ending), or comes from the Hunnic name of river Volga (Atil), Bleda is a pretty common Germanic name, we know of some more people bearing that name from that time period
@@hoggypare7629
1 - Sure they spoke Gothic, or a version of it. That much is known, but that was the Lingua franca of their empire, thats not what I was asking though :)
2 - Yup, it was a confederation
3 - Maybe. Those names could've been Germanic, sure. But could've been of some other origin. Just for the sake of argument, I'll say that its not of Germanic origin, but of Slavic and Attila is actually a nickname Hattilo (the H would be very very soft there, almost silent) and that means the "hitter" or "smasher" in several archaic Slavic languages and I think modern day Ukrainian still has a similar word. Quite fitting for a warrior, dont you think? Bleda quite literally means "the pale one" or it could be "one with a foul mouth" or "gossiper". Ruga or Rugila was a common Slavic name too. Uldin however is almost certainly Germanic, at least to my ear, but I've heard counter arguments on Uldin from Scandinavians saying its one of theirs. The point is we just dont know. We can argue till we are blue in the face, come up with all kinds of ideas, but we just do not know. And thats a shame.
We know more of the "Sea Peoples" who attacked, occupied and enslaved the Americas, Africa, Asia and Australasia from the 15th to the 20th centuries. They were unwashed bearded men hailing from Europe, who brought with them the religion of Capitalism.
What drove from their homes seems to have been economic, what allowed their success was the invention of the limited liability company plus improved killing technology. They seized raw commodities and finished goods, but above all they prized addictive substances: opium, tea and coffee, and in turn they traded alcohol.
They exacted "Danegeld" from their victims by taxing the subjects they ruled directly and demanding monetary "tribute" from their local allies. By the 1780's so much of the dividend paid by the East India Company to its shareholders came from taxation that they withdrew from general trade, keeping only the opium business.
Wealth still flows from the global South to the global North, but occupying troops have been replaced by local elites managed by the Chinese Communist Party, Bharatiya Janata Party, etc.
Some of the impoverished masses from the South risk their lives to go to the lands their ancestors worked and paid to build up. They are in turn demonised as "illegals" and "boat people." Will they manage to overthrow the structures that keep them in misery?
@@faithlesshound5621Oh do go away. Last thing we need here is your commie crap.
Attila the well Hung
Posterior epistaxis aneurysm, aggravated by hypertension due to obesity and the use of a blood thinners in the form of alcohol?
Gudrun did it!
His new German wife might have been a Roman agent who poisoned him.
Attila could have had a massive heart attack and fell on his face damaging his nose and causing the nose bleed
How about a very narrow blade pushed up a nostril and into the brain?