Not really. Briars will return, though, and brush hogging can be used to create a shrub understory, though you will still have ticks. The grass seed will be covered by the chewed up material and without fire herbaceous plants like grass and forbs won't germinate. You can scarify the soil, basically scraping off the duff and masticated brush, but you run the risk of damaging the roots of the trees and a beetle infestation. I have seen that in Florida where someone used a root rake to remove palmetto, and killed their crop of slash pine due to root destruction. In addition to creating growing space for herbaceous plants, fire removes fuel accumulations reducing risk of a higher intensity fire that destroys your forest. You can't do as that as well with brush hogging because even though the material will decay over time, it is replace with new dead down material every year from the pine overstory, and any new shrub/briar growth.
@ wish I could do fire but unfortunately my timber company I lease from doesn’t like it. I was just curious cause I noticed this season we killed two big bucks cruising in the most unusual spot and after the second buck I realized both was head for a old lane that I had sprayed with some herbicide, bush hogged and then disked up last season that had grown back with some briars but more grass and shrubs that it seemed to be the path of least resistance or so I’m thinking being in the 5yrs I’ve been there I’ve never seen a young buck cross there much less 2 (4.5-5.5) bucks and done it 2 days apart which was the second astonishing thing to have killed a deer there the evening before and turned around the very next morning for my killed to lay a 5.5 down in the exact same spot on the exact same trail.
@@A3Outdoors-mq4lz Okay, renting from industrial land is different. If you are able to disk lanes, that is pretty good. You won't be able to start running equipment in between trees and start killing timber. They will really not like that. Best time to hunt in that situation is in newly planted stand to about age 10, or before crown closure. These 4th generation improved pines grow so fast, that they are planting them on lower densities, 8 x12 or 10 x 10, but they still reach crown closure in 10 years on a good site. BTW, in one of these videos it is mentioned that the deer like fresh green briar tips as it is a source of protein.
Coming up on my second thinning IF I can find somebody to cut it which will take me to 60 bsf per acre. Course I know I’ll have some blowdowns for a while, but it’ll look good.
Love it, but depending on location I just wish it was either longleaf or maybe short leaf to allow for more frequent fire use and potentially natural regeneration.
Dr. Woods, what are the monetary costs to spray a pine plantation like you are showing as the correct example? Would that be sprayed by aerial application or by a team of professionals?
I am curious how and when to apply herbicide I am having 30 year old pines thinned down to 60-70 range in a couple weeks and need to knock out the sweet gum after they finish
Nathan - the number of acres, etc., impact the price - volume discounts - but in general treating pines to promote native forbs and grasses cost about $100 per acre. Be sure the crew doesn't use a tank mix and kill everything but pines! Forestry herbicides are usually applied by a skidder or helicopter.
We are about to burn a 9 yr old stand of loblolly in the next few weeks. Haven’t done the first thinning yet, but the local forestry commission said we can burn it now
How did it go? Which part of Georgia, and have you considered incorporating species like longleaf pine over loblolly, to allow for natural regeneration decades out while maintaining habitat for deer and quail?
@ it went great! Lost very few trees. I did consider long leaf but we are north of the fall line, above which long leaf is a real roll of the dice and I didn’t want to gamble on it. We have so much volunteer loblolly pine all over the property that I’m not concerned about lack of habitat. If anything we need less trees. 450 acres: 266 acres of the most beautiful old growth hardwoods you can imagine, some 200 yrs old, 140 acres of 2 yo planted 3rd gen containerized loblolly, 38 acres of 8 yo loblolly, 6 acres of food plots.
@@russbolton947 Great! Ah, if you're not in the range of Longleaf, then it isn't something to consider. If you intend to manage the pines as such, you could consider shortleaf, which will reproduce and can tolerate fire well before loblolly. With those age classes, you're years from thinking about that. Depending on the hardwood, they can be manged with fire, as well, and it probably was historically , especially if heavy with white oaks. Less so if magnolia and beech heavy.
when thinning, do they take the stumps too or just leave them? Around here the timber companies are known for leaving cut down areas in shambles, very rough terrain once they're done, with the debris field left behind.
I got a farm just like this BUT it’s all briar now … hack and squirt on the hardwood… but now it’s nothing but briar so thick you can’t walk through.. what do I do…
For 60 basal feet per acre, is that roughly 15 feet in between each tree? I want to cut a long pvc pipe to bring along with my chainsaw for a standard rule of thumb for tree spacing. Our pine thicket is unfortunately a 30+ year old clear clear cut that was left alone, we have our work cut out for us.
Jaron - the space between trees would depend on the diameter of each tree. To invision 60 basal feet per acre, think of 60 pie plates or one foot circles placed in one acre or 43,560 square feet - or 208' x 208'. If there's only 15' between trees, then with a 7.5' canopy it would be a closed canopy forest. The goal is to get sun to the ground to promote quality forage. We'll show more on this soon!
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Perfect! Great info! Thank you Dr woods for speaking with me!
If you can’t do prescribed fire would bush hogging the cut rows get rid of all the briars and promote more grass growth?
Not really. Briars will return, though, and brush hogging can be used to create a shrub understory, though you will still have ticks. The grass seed will be covered by the chewed up material and without fire herbaceous plants like grass and forbs won't germinate. You can scarify the soil, basically scraping off the duff and masticated brush, but you run the risk of damaging the roots of the trees and a beetle infestation. I have seen that in Florida where someone used a root rake to remove palmetto, and killed their crop of slash pine due to root destruction. In addition to creating growing space for herbaceous plants, fire removes fuel accumulations reducing risk of a higher intensity fire that destroys your forest. You can't do as that as well with brush hogging because even though the material will decay over time, it is replace with new dead down material every year from the pine overstory, and any new shrub/briar growth.
@ wish I could do fire but unfortunately my timber company I lease from doesn’t like it. I was just curious cause I noticed this season we killed two big bucks cruising in the most unusual spot and after the second buck I realized both was head for a old lane that I had sprayed with some herbicide, bush hogged and then disked up last season that had grown back with some briars but more grass and shrubs that it seemed to be the path of least resistance or so I’m thinking being in the 5yrs I’ve been there I’ve never seen a young buck cross there much less 2 (4.5-5.5) bucks and done it 2 days apart which was the second astonishing thing to have killed a deer there the evening before and turned around the very next morning for my killed to lay a 5.5 down in the exact same spot on the exact same trail.
@@A3Outdoors-mq4lz Okay, renting from industrial land is different. If you are able to disk lanes, that is pretty good. You won't be able to start running equipment in between trees and start killing timber. They will really not like that. Best time to hunt in that situation is in newly planted stand to about age 10, or before crown closure. These 4th generation improved pines grow so fast, that they are planting them on lower densities, 8 x12 or 10 x 10, but they still reach crown closure in 10 years on a good site.
BTW, in one of these videos it is mentioned that the deer like fresh green briar tips as it is a source of protein.
Coming up on my second thinning IF I can find somebody to cut it which will take me to 60 bsf per acre. Course I know I’ll have some blowdowns for a while, but it’ll look good.
Tommy - I know a great forester that understands wildlife in Georgia! Reach out to me and I'll make an introduction!
Love it, but depending on location I just wish it was either longleaf or maybe short leaf to allow for more frequent fire use and potentially natural regeneration.
I like whatever pine species is native to the location
@@GrowingDeerTV Well, where was this?
Dr. Woods, what are the monetary costs to spray a pine plantation like you are showing as the correct example? Would that be sprayed by aerial application or by a team of professionals?
I am curious how and when to apply herbicide I am having 30 year old pines thinned down to 60-70 range in a couple weeks
and need to knock out the sweet gum after they finish
Nathan - the number of acres, etc., impact the price - volume discounts - but in general treating pines to promote native forbs and grasses cost about $100 per acre. Be sure the crew doesn't use a tank mix and kill everything but pines! Forestry herbicides are usually applied by a skidder or helicopter.
We are about to burn a 9 yr old stand of loblolly in the next few weeks. Haven’t done the first thinning yet, but the local forestry commission said we can burn it now
How did it go? Which part of Georgia, and have you considered incorporating species like longleaf pine over loblolly, to allow for natural regeneration decades out while maintaining habitat for deer and quail?
@ it went great! Lost very few trees. I did consider long leaf but we are north of the fall line, above which long leaf is a real roll of the dice and I didn’t want to gamble on it. We have so much volunteer loblolly pine all over the property that I’m not concerned about lack of habitat. If anything we need less trees. 450 acres: 266 acres of the most beautiful old growth hardwoods you can imagine, some 200 yrs old, 140 acres of 2 yo planted 3rd gen containerized loblolly, 38 acres of 8 yo loblolly, 6 acres of food plots.
@@russbolton947 Great! Ah, if you're not in the range of Longleaf, then it isn't something to consider. If you intend to manage the pines as such, you could consider shortleaf, which will reproduce and can tolerate fire well before loblolly. With those age classes, you're years from thinking about that. Depending on the hardwood, they can be manged with fire, as well, and it probably was historically , especially if heavy with white oaks. Less so if magnolia and beech heavy.
when thinning, do they take the stumps too or just leave them? Around here the timber companies are known for leaving cut down areas in shambles, very rough terrain once they're done, with the debris field left behind.
Loggers leave stumps - it would be very expensive to remove them.
I got a farm just like this BUT it’s all briar now … hack and squirt on the hardwood… but now it’s nothing but briar so thick you can’t walk through.. what do I do…
Prescribed fire is my first choice! Herbicides would be my second choice.
For 60 basal feet per acre, is that roughly 15 feet in between each tree? I want to cut a long pvc pipe to bring along with my chainsaw for a standard rule of thumb for tree spacing. Our pine thicket is unfortunately a 30+ year old clear clear cut that was left alone, we have our work cut out for us.
Jaron - the space between trees would depend on the diameter of each tree. To invision 60 basal feet per acre, think of 60 pie plates or one foot circles placed in one acre or 43,560 square feet - or 208' x 208'. If there's only 15' between trees, then with a 7.5' canopy it would be a closed canopy forest. The goal is to get sun to the ground to promote quality forage. We'll show more on this soon!