HMS Neptune - Guide 388
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- Опубликовано: 17 май 2024
- HMS Neptune, a single dreadnought battleship of the British Royal Navy, is today's subject.
Read more about the ship here:
www.amazon.co.uk/British-Battleships-World-War-One/dp/1848321473
www.amazon.co.uk/Grand-Fleet-Warship-Development-1906-1922/dp/186176099X
www.amazon.co.uk/British-Battleship-Norman-Friedman/dp/1848322259
Naval History books, use code 'DRACH' for 25% off - www.usni.org/press/books?f%5B...
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'Legionnaire' by Scott Buckley - released under CC-BY 4.0. www.scottbuckley.com.au
Pinned post for Q&A :)
Which particular still-missing wrecks do you hope will NOT be found?
Which HMS Neptune would emerge victorious in a head to head battle?
Given the only CVs the Royal Navy had at the time of the signing of the WNT were Argus, Courageous, Glorious, and Furious. Plus whatever smaller seaplane tenders they had too, could at least one of the G3 class battlecruisers have been converted into an aircraft carrier?
If the Germans & French could've managed to sell off Salamis & Vasilefs Konstantinos respectively, which nation would've bought these battleships?
Would it have benefited the allies more if they had put more research into further develop a dedicated heavy AA gun, like something between 3 and 4 inches, instead of focusing so much on dual purpose guns, do to the treat from air attacks.
"The Admiralty said they must have six battleships, the Treasury said we could only afford four, so we compromised on eight" - WS Churchill
I read the quote recently in Violet Bonham-Carter's biography of Winston Churchill.
One of my favorite Churchillisms. And it's foreshadowing of how the military industrial complex would come to drive policy rather than vice versa
@@scottmccrea1873 It's a joke. About ships that were really, really needed within a few years.
@@davidchambers8697 I know. It points to the problem of the government lobbying the government to give the government more money. Winnie understood this.
"We want 8 and we won't wait". Whoever started it was correct , the Dreadnought race was only won by numbers of ships.
Neptune: Close one. Thanks cuz.
Dreadnought: Happy to help.
*(Meanwhile, Aboard U-29)*
KAPTAIN!!!
Yah?
LOOOOOOK!!!
OH SCHISE!!!
*(HMS Barrelling towards them at full steam)*
The commander of the _U-29_ was Otto Weddigen, who had commanded the _U-9_ when she sank _Aboukir,_ _Hogue,_ and _Cressy._
@@mbryson2899 “You say I take too many risks attacking British warships. If that’s true let me be sunk by a battleship to prove it.”
- Otto Weddigen (probably)
We need "Drach Merch"
I propose a T-shirt that simply says "Sold for scrap"
But, but... *Do you see Torpedo Boats?*
@@Deridus Voyaged of the Damned...and all I got was this T-shirt!
No should be "Sold for scrap, the following year"
Or may be "the following year" being on the back
How about: Proud Member of The Drach Pack
A clear demonstration of how quickly the early dreadnoughts were overtaken by advances in naval technology. Service life of 10 years, going from the flagship of the fleet to basically a second rater by 1916, under armored and under gunned to the point of being surplus to requirements in 1919.
Considering work started on the G3's just a month after she was sold it's not surprising.
Same with aircraft of the time as well.
Imagine if WW2 in Europe had started in late 1941 instead of 1939 it's quite possible the Hurricane and Spitfire would be as well known as the Gloster Gladiator while early jets fought the war.
*Me:* Wow, this sounds like a ship that went through a lot!
*Drach:* ...and was scrapped the following year.
*Me:* Definitely a British ship.
They do love to scrap their historical vessels it seems.
Being scrapped *before* the Washington Naval Treaty, that's quite a burn...
RN "yeah, we can have as many battleships of whatever kind we want... but we don't want you..."
Neptune *de-intensifies*
There was a period when Battleships were becoming obsolete about as fast as combat aircraft in the 1930's, when they moved from wood & Fabric biplanes to all metal monoplanes while engine horsepower at least doubled and top speed shot up (to the sky).
Small tube boilers got rid of wing turrets and the first 12 in. guns start disappearing, with larger caliber guns on centerline. Oh, sorry. Yes, you're right. Fascinating time.
Happy weekend everyone ❤
Thank you same to you!
Yeah, the decision to go with 12" guns instead of 13.5" guns sealed the classes fate to be scrapped sooner rather than later. And the wing turrets didn't really help it's case to remain in active service either. I just rewatched the Battle of Trafalgar so when I saw HMS Neptune I was thinking "age of sail" rather than dreadnought.
There is some suggestion the Royal Navy would have kept their 12-inchers in service for quite a time after the Great War, through the 1920s probably, if not for the treaties. While the 12-inch gun was definitely considered obsolete for the primary Line of Battle even before the war was over, they were still viable for roles where they were unlikely to face superior numbers of enemy superdreadnoughts on their own.
In particular, the role of convoy escort looked particularly good for the likes of Dreadnought and Neptune, because the second greatest fear of the Royal Navy after the U-Boat was German battlecruisers getting past the Grand Fleet and finding convoys without proper battleships to protect them.
Put another way, the Royal Navy's own plans for after the Great War and before the WNT changed everything appears to have been to scrap the predreadnoughts and use the early dreadnoughts in their place for a number of years.
I play WOWS, so I was thinking a Cruiser like in the game.
anyone else give a thumbs up right away b/c you know the video will be good?
Guilty
( Proudly raises hand )
Of course.
Always - never disappoints
Will we be seeing USS Gyatt reviewed? She was a Gearing class which seems to be within the specs of the channel and was the first guided missile destroyer in the US Navy, meaning she is historically significant.
I’m waiting for the guide on HMS Rizzler
Gyatt sounds like one of these new words, that kids use nowadays.
@@peterkapunkt6783 it literally is, alas...
@@peterkapunkt6783 and had it had the same meaning, the Navy's sailors would have used it for the same purpose.
"How about da look on dat prick's face when he saw da gyatt?"
Fascinating design with the buttresses over the main deck level to clear the deck for the main guns. One can only wonder the damage that would have been done to this structure should any attempt at cross deck firing or near centreline firing be made.
probably not much of an issue, when these ships went into battle they ditched the launches (if given enough notice) otherwise, the boats are replaceable. the flying deck was designed for across deck firing
@@AsbestosMuffins As per standard procedure - the boats would have been put over the side when going into battle - what I was referring to was the actual structure itself. It would potentially limit certain elevation of the guns (or you would have to lower them to traverse) in a cross deck firing position. It can't have been successful as it was never copied in the Royal or US Navies to my knowledge.
I miss the old theme
New one is not bad at all but pox on the copyright scammer that necessitated the new one.
You and me both brother
@@yumazster Yeah, sadly. 😢
DUN DUN da da da da da da DUN DUN da da da da da da DUN dun, do doOoo doOOOOoo do do dooo doo do do, dooOOo dooOOo dooOOo 💥💥⚓️
Hey I went back and watched a early episode to cleanse the palate.
It's kind of amazing the life span of a capital ship when compared to say the B-52.
Eh. This was the early dreadnought era, ships were basically obsolete 3 years after hitting the water. If you look at modern capital ships, like aircraft carriers and the like, the life spans of these ships are much, much longer now. Like we're decommissioning the Nimitz class, but that's less a case of an "obsolete" design and more a case of budget constraints. Nowadays we get like 50 years per capital ship
The B-52 is obsolete. In fact it's so obsolete that the concept that replaced it (low altitude fast bombers like the B-1) is also obsolete.
It survives because the USAF needs a long ranged missile truck that can haul a bunch of ALCMs out to their launch points without costing too much per flight hour. Its survivability against enemy air defense is comparable to that of a pigeon at the world trap shooting and falconry convention, but that fact is irrelevant because the missile truck should never go within 200 NM of enemy air defense anyway...
Part of reason for Neptunes good gunnery stats at Jutland . May well have been that she was commanded by Capt VHG Bernard. . a former gunnery officer, who, pre war had commanded the "old" Royal Sovergein.. then the RN gunnrery training ship
2:40 Drach finally confirms that Tillman simply copied the long lost RN blueprints from Fisher's "two dozen cheese scones before bed" period.
Thanks for the video. Is there any footage of ships like these below deck? I always try to imagine how life was onboard.
Neptune was one of the best looking battleship of her age, and far too few pictures were taken of her, especially late career.
A pity this ship never got to meet the USS Uranus (AF-14).
Is it possible to have a more in depth videos on French pre dreadnoughts
I'm actually working on one at the moment!
@@Drachinifel Très bien! 😁
@@Drachinifel yay!
There is a video about these abominations already. Think it’s called „when Hotels go to war“ or something like this.
@@frankodo3251 oh yeah I know I wanted a more in depth description tho
Did any captain of an echelon-layout ship ever fire across the deck? It seems to me that kind of gunnery would cause a lot of blast damage to the superstructure.
Started playing Battletech again. The balance of weapons and armor speaks to me on a level that is almost bone deep.
Vanilla or modded?
Pen and Paper tabletop game, or computer/console?
@@rossanderson4440 Played the pen and paper game when it came out. But i was talking about the computer game.
Also had the brand new, longer L50 Mk XI guns.
Which were terrible.
Thanks Drach
From commission and Flagship in 1911 to obsolete in 1919, scrapped in 1922.....
Imagine any warship being discarded within a decade and scrapped in 11 years these days, let alone a capital ship.
LCS?
Britain built a fleet for war, and then didn't need the fleet (and the maintenance cost) after the war.
Technology always goes at faster pace in wartime.By the time she was scrapped the RN had been looking at G3’s and implementing the lessons of WW1.
Not much of a looker is she. Though not as awkward looking as Colossus and Hercules.
@@nenad8845 LCS are outright failures though, Neptune was a rather useful, successful design, I think the situations are slightly different
Drach’s narrative on the RN’s using in echelon turrets rather than all superimposes turrets is interesting. The German imperial Navy followed the same flawed design until Konig and Derflinger classes, while the US abandoned that design with USS South Carolina.
Another great video as always
A very intermediate design. If you can have one super-firing turret you can have two, and switch to an all-centreline layout. I imagine she was built mostly so they would have a complete 8-ship dreadnaught squadron before introducing the superdreadnaughts.
Superb upload. 😉☘️
HMS Dreadnought had three in-line turrets and two wing turrets as did the Bellerophon and St. Vincent classes which followed. The Neptune, Colossus and Hercules had the staggered wing turrets much like the Invincible battlecruisers. From what I've read, it would seem the staggered wing turrets could not really be used on either broadside and it wasn't until the Indefatigable class battlecruisers that the staggered wing turrets could effectively function in that manner. All this aside, I wonder what design constraints confronted the chief constructor to the admiralty such that wing turrets seemed a better option than in-line superfiring turrets.
As I recall it was the observation hoods on the turrets that restricted the use of superfiring guns. Note the wide separation of turrets and restrictions in firing arcs in ships until the hoods were abolished.
Yeah, I was wondering that myself. It would seem that 2 super firing 13.5" turrets, one fore the other aft would have been a much better option. 8 gun broadside & only needing 8 guns to do so. Idk, the Brits, I guess, like to make things more complicated than they need to be. Seems to me the 4 twin layout would have weighed less & been less expensive to build even with 13.5" guns instead 12". But I guess that there was some reason they did what they did! But in the long run they would have done better with the super- firing layout fore & aft. The fact that the Treaty system made the USA 🇺🇸 on the same level as the Royal Navy & put the Japanese behind the eight ball at the same time is a major historical footnote. Although the Japanese felt slighted if they had embraced the fact that it was going to help their economy rather than feeling like it made them weaker than both then maybe they could have been content. But I guess that with Hitler wanting to rule the world & the Japanese already invading China & the US embargo of oil against Japan that the die was cast as soon as the Axis powers made their agreements. And Hitler really thought that Great Britain would sit by & do nothing while Germany went rampaging through Europe. And the Japanese figured that they would grab what they could while the English were distracted by Germany. And neither Germany nor Japan knew the power that the USA would rise up & become because of their shenanigans. Winston Churchill knew. That's why Churchill danced a jig on December 8,1941 when he heard the news of Pearl Harbor & made the statement "We can't lose now!!" But even with that said I don't think that he even realized how powerful the USA would become during the war. It's a shame that China & the USSR both decided on Communism instead of freedom. I hope we can live & let live for the future. But idk, seems to me that if there is another big war, what a huge blood bath it will be. Rivers of blood will pour considering we have billions in the world now.
BTW, sorry for the trip down history lane, but we as humans forget how horrible war really is and some evil politicians come into power & starts a war wanting to Rule the World forgetting they will still die regardless. And probably sooner rather than later if there is a war. So, sorry for the reminder, I didn't intend to go there when I started writing. HAVE A GOOD DAY! ENJOY PEACE WHILE IT EXISTS IN THIS WORLD.
@@kennethdeanmiller7324 I was thinking the machinery prevented them from centering the turrets. It may of been the length of the docks to build the ships at the time. I do not know many ships but looking up the Japanese Fuso had 6 double turrets on the center line years latter. But it may be that their ship yard was longer at the time.
@@kennethdeanmiller7324 DK Brown in The Grand Fleet specifically agrees that the issue was the sighting hoods. Then again, recall that the first American super firing dreadnaughts commissioned in 1910, just a year before the first British super firing super-dreadnaughts.
Thanks!
The Vickers-Armstrong sales rep eavesdropping the Admiralty: "How 'bout some 13.5 inchers, mate? Aye, want some? Here, take a look. Shine as new. Not a dent on 'em. Can have them for ya by tea time for a tenner, mate."
As Jackie exclaimed, the RN's biggest enemy is Treasury.
Tried to make this ship in Ultimate Admiral, it was a nightmare.
At least at least you had a fancy computer program. These guys are using drafting tables and slide rules.
@@WALTERBROADDUS Yes, but Ultimate Admiral has very Strongly Held Beliefs about what and where you can put things on a ship. The drafters only had the Admiralty and Treasurer to contend with, both of which are considerably more malleable.
@@WALTERBROADDUS Honestly, between the two, I'd rather draw a ship. The game has a.... Unique logic to how it expects a ship to be built.
Rebuilding her in Rule the Waves might be a better idea.
Send feed back to the company, maybe you'll get a patch some day.
Can you do a guide to KMS Großer Kurfürst.
In the era fly overs and ring roads were a new part of Naval design.
Now onto Orion
Wing turrets look so cool.
Treasury cutting the budget since forever lol
Hi Drac. I don't know what you have done differently in the sound mix for this one but it confuses my surround sound I only get you very quietly from the surround speakers. For the last year or so it's been perfect but this one has gone back to the confuse my system settings. Great channel.
I miss it too
A short one for a Saturday!
It is ironic that it was budget controls that kept the 13.5-inch gun off the ship instead of the usual problem of not wanting to wait for the guns to be finished. Probably was a good move anyway because not using up the supply of 13.5-inch guns on Neptune and the Collosuses meant a full half-squadron of much better Orions could be launched very quickly just a couple of seasons later.
Handsome ship
⚓🐉Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club Member 1968-69🐉 🇺🇸⚓
Wasn't the future George VI in command of a turret at Jutland?
That would be a yes, on HMS Collingwood
Huh. Guess I have to give him a nod of respect.
Can you do a review of SS Bannockburn? (Aka the Ghost Ship of the Great Lakes)
Could do a video on the Pollen/Argo vs Dreyer controversy
Must have been a fine car.
What a short time for the deep fall from Flagship to obsolete and scrapped.
Can you please do a Five Minute Gude on the WW2 carrier USS Robin.
Would it be possible to go into Almere detail on the Myoko class cruisers? I was a little disappointed you really didn’t focus on their careers at all, especially Haguro (no offense).
Not much of an improvement over Dreadnought, but a great looking ship. One of my favorite British battleships.
In a superposed turret arrangement, would the aft turret fire with it's muzzles over the roof of the forward turret?
Yes, and since some turrets had sighting hoods built into them, that would have blast going right into the hood.
I like these vids but I must say I prefer the original intro music.
2:40 - Ahm..." dropping to 8 turrets"? 🤪 The others must have been below decks, explaining why the Invincibles kept blowing up when they were fired 🤣
⚓️
Hehe that's me
The Flying Bridge of this Ship/Class has always made me think of her as the uglist of the WWI Dreadnoughts. Even more than the silly looking Lattice Masts of some USA Dreadnoughts.
It seems to be a love it or hate it thing with HMS Neptune, quite a few people adore her. Personally, I don't mind her aesthetically, it just seems odd to have her X turret superfiring and not switch up the layout so you have a superfiring B Turret, which would be far more useful for potential pursuits of damaged enemy battle line units
*Headnod*
New theme is a grower not a show her
76th, 18 May 2024
:)
It seems to me that it is such a waste of money when a ship is scrapped so soon after entering service.
WWI came close to bankrupting the UK. There was a period in 1917 when the British and the French population's morale and support of the war flagged so much that there was some thought of defeat. Aside from the huge costs in lives and the cost of prosecuting the land war, Britain's massive battleship building program in the leadup to the war put tremendous pressure on the UK economy after the war. The UK military establishment was reduced in size as quickly as it could be done, in large part to redirect the economy back to rebuild what had been interrupted in 1914. Crushing public debt, loss of 24% of overseas assets, inflation and loss of international market share put the British economy into a tailspin that would not be completely recovered until after WWII, in the 1950s.
WWI and also idiotic US tariff policy, which greatly hindered both economic growth and paying off the debt, without actually solving the problems it was intended to solve - and setting up a lot of nations including the USA for a much more serious world-wide depression than would otherwise have happened. Beggar-thy-neighbor indeed. It's a wonder Britain sought out the USA as an ally in WW2.
Do next SMS Friedrich Carl.
You know he has a long pre-planned list right?
@@jimsackmanbusinesscoaching1344 I`ve been asking for this for two years
@@dziugasluscinskas5742 The list is several hundred long. Your request may already be on it. Have you looked?
@@jimsackmanbusinesscoaching1344 can you drop a link?
Looking forward to the German K class cruisers from ww2 and your old soundtrack was a better tune than this new one that you are using
May be a bit out of left field but does anyone know where to find Drach’s discord link? I can’t seem to find it.
Should be in the video description
The flying deck is FUGLY!
First