Good tier list! If I were to include some bands I would include Borknagar, Necrophobic (blackened death), Naglfar, Unanimated, and Gehenna. Also Darkthrone is S for me because they helped get me into BM, same with Enslaved.
@@Questformetal You forgot to put bands like Stalaggh and Emit. Stalaggh album like Pure Misanthropia and Emit - The Dark Bleeding album are Masterpiece.
You forgot Tsjuder, Urgehal, Beastcraft, Behexen, Kampfar, Koldbrann, Dark Funeral, Naglfar, Summoning, Belphegor etc… And it‘s Criminal that you don‘t know Nargaroth!
Mostly agreeable list, except if Drudkh and Inquisition are S+, then surely Emperor & Dissection belong there too. Dissection has been a huge influence for many bands for more than 20 yrs. Also, Celtic Frost is higher up for me.
I certainly recognize that these types of things are subjective and everyone has their own opinions, but I find it notable that Drudkh and Panopticon are so far apart on the ratings when to me those two bands are quite similar. Or maybe it's just me because both bands have prominent albums with the word "Autumn" in their titles.
They are similar but so is winterfylleth and saor and gallowbraid now that band would be S+ but ye I just prefer other similar sounding bands to panopticon I’m afraid
I keep waiting on you to say something about Weakling in your black metal videos. Your favorite metal band is Opeth and you also love Leviathan. That is literally the formula for Weakling. They only did one album, Dead As Dreams, but it is so good you have mention them among the GOATs of not just black metal but all metal.
Well! Dear Sir! You are wrong:) Mgla and Satyricon deserves to be up in the top, and Marduk too. Otherwise I don`t care what you think hehe;) Thanks for a great channel. Cheers from Sweden.
Thanks to you, I got into Inquisition and now am a lifelong fan. I even (almost) learned every song on guitar from Nefarious Dismal Orations. Hail Dagon and hail Incubus!
Your ranking is generally solid, I agree with most positions, with a few exceptions. I'd rank Satyricon a bit higher, maybe C, just for their classic material up to Nemesis Divina. Negura Bunget needs to be higher, their material is gorgeously well done and I'd rank it at least at an A, if not S. Ulver should be a B. Mayhem, mgla, Gorgoroth and Dissection should be A. The list is also missing some crucial BM bands, including Sargeist, Rotting Christ, Hate Forest, Nokturnal Mortum, Lucifugum, Necrophobic, Saor, Summoning, Peste Noire, all of which would easily be A tier bands or higher (Rotting Christ S). Ancient is also missing and fairly well known, but apart from their first album they're pretty shit so who cares.
I'd put Emperor, Agalloch, Panopticon, Saor, Fen, and Cradle of Filth in the S/A tier, while Drudkh, Wolves in the Throne Room, Ulver, Woods of Desolation, Borknagar, Taake, and Winterfylleth are more B/C tier, they have solid albums, but some of them are more hit-or-miss.
Questy gets it right! 🤘Hail Dagon and Incubus🤘 🤘INQUISITION = GOAT Black Metal Bands.🤘 Shout out to Bryce for turning Questy on to this genius 2 piece band
My list S: Deathspell Omega, dissection, Emperor, Enslaved, immortal, inquisition, A: Burzum, Darkthrone, Bathory, deafheaven, drudkh, mayhem, mgła, venom, watain, B: Abbath, Celtic frost (I only listen to morbid tales), Dimmu Borgir, gorgoroth, leviathan (I haven’t heard enough to put them in a or s), marduk, Ulver, C: 1349, Beherit, judas iscariot, Satyricon D: Behemoth E: carpathian forest, panopticon (great drumming, awful vocals and melodies. Shitty bm, shitty folk), thorns (just not for me) F: Don’t Listen: Blut Aus Nord, deströyer 666, enthroned, havukruunu, nargaroth, shining, taake, ruins of beverast (i know I need to listen to them)
The fourth band on your "Who?" tier is Samael from Switzerland which i kinda enjoy but not quite as much as some of my friends. Actually i never dived into them as well. Keep up the great work my man and Greetings from Germany!
I started only 2 years ago with Black Metal coming more from Prog Metal and Classic Metal. So I have a stronger connection to the Atmospheric side. Also I do not really know some of the classic bands. Emperor, Bathory, Immortal, Negura Bunget etc. are all still on my ToDO list. I also started with Drudkh, but it's unfair to rank them after just one listen to one album. They might get quite high in the end. And Mare Cognitum might also climb to the top tier in the future. I definitely don't like Mayhem, Gorgoroth and this kind of stuff. Same with Cradle of Filth and Behemoth. Tried it, but not for me, thanks. My list so far: S+ Enslaved Saor Agalloch S Mare Cognitum Winterfylleth Windir Felled A Panopticon Belenos Havukruunu Borknagar B Fuath Audn Wolves in the Throne Room Can Bardd Aquilus Kanonenfieber C Spectral Lore Ulver D Dissection Stormkeep
I know it's probably blasphemy and as much as I love The Somberlian and Storm of the Lights Bane. Reinkaos is my favorite Dissection album. Black Dragon is one of my favorite songs of all time.
A Teir Xasthur, Darkthrone, Ulver, (Dimmu Borgir isn't black metal) B Teir Judus Iscariot, Gorgeroth, 1349, Behemoth, Emperor, Bathory, Al-namrood, Vreid C Teir Watain, Dark Space, Arch Goat, Mutiilation, Coldworld, Batushka. D Teir Burzum, Immortal, Dissection, Beherit, Leviathan, Celtic Frost, Venom, Mgta, Mayham, Enslaved, Inquisition. F Teir Carpathian Forrest, Abbath, (Deafheaven isn't black metal) Edit: This is strictly my opinion/ taste of what I like to listen to, the list doesn't take into account how influential, a band is or anything like that.
Mutiilation and Goatmoon i think should be on this list. Great bands (with some weird story). Did know most of the bands, but didn't knew of a few like the ones you have put in the S+ tier. Cradle Of Filth, Belphegor, Dark Funeral are missing, not just they're should be on the list, they're missing. And yeah, Mgla spells as "mhgla" not "meegla" which is confusing to me even as a slavic too, because that's polish. Didn't knew how to prounonce that as well. By the way I think their EP's are superior to the albums. And strangely that Mgla is on the list, but Batushka is not. Mayhem for me is a cringe. 1993 and 2019 the only albums i really understand.
Putting Celtic Frost in the D section is total heresy. ;) They are better than all the bands on this list, sure they aren't black metal in the more modern norwegian kinda way so maybe they shouldnt have been here at all, kinda like how every band on this list wouldn't have been here without Celtic Frost. hehe Cheers!
Been listening to lots of black metal lately, so I’ll do what I know on here. Love the tier lists btw. S+: Drudkh, Behemoth, Darkthrone S: Deafheaven, Enslaved, Leviathan, Marduk, Taake, A: Blut Aus Nord, Deathspell Omega, Dissection, Emperor, Lunar Aurora, Inquisition, Windir B: Bathory, Immortal, Judas Iscariot, Mayhem, Mgła, Negura Bunget, Panopticon, Ruins of Bevrast, C: 1349, Beherit, Carpathian Forest, Deströyer 666, Enthroned, Gorgoroth, Ragnarock, Shining, Thorns, Venom, Watain, Winterfylleth, D: Abbath, Celtic Frost, Burzum, Dimmu Borgir, Satyricon, Ulver, Xasthur S+ = greatest S = amazing A = great B = very good C = ok/decent D = not a fan/only like a little Limited myself to 3 in s+ so it’s hard lol. Deafheaven is so close to s+. I left off the ones I don’t know or at least not enough to judge.
@@coreycrossman3447 I don’t think nazism has any place in metal. Sure it’s a topic to write about, but being in full support of it is something I just can’t get behind
@purplepurple8179 that's a loaded question. The aforementioned bands are classic as fuck and make some of the best metal of all time. Venom and celtic frost are so much more than a couple "thrash bands" they were instrumental in the formation of extreme metal in general. I'm not knocking the second wave stuff and onwards though it's great
@@joubertrouret2769 Neither are black metal. They are thrash bands that laid the groundwork for what became black metal, mostly just in terms of imagery. How good they are is irrelevant. People think of this stuff as black metal mostly because of that sam dunn clown and his metal movies. Over analysis by a bunch of poser pussies. Chronos from venom even said that what is considered black metal is not remotely the same as what they were doing. They were influences on the formation of black metal but were not black metal. Non musicians and shitty musicians always fixate on the superficial aspects of genre and disregard the actual music.
The tier list was taken from tier maker website not created by myself. Let me know what bands you’d add down below 🍺
no sarcofago or mystifier? lol
Wolves in the Throne Room
@@serviettedetable cringe in the cringeroom
@@sam.n7762 why ?
@@serviettedetable because its poser metal
This man is on an endless quest for metal.
The second one on the “who?” section is Nargaroth, which I highly recommend. I’m sure you’ve heard Black Metal ist Krieg.
Good tier list! If I were to include some bands I would include Borknagar, Necrophobic (blackened death), Naglfar, Unanimated, and Gehenna.
Also Darkthrone is S for me because they helped get me into BM, same with Enslaved.
Necrophobic is the first band I thought of.
Dark side is one of the best black metal albums ever in my top 10
Who:
-cult of fire;
-nargaroth;
-paysage d'hiver;
-Samael;
-urfaust;
-drowning the light
Great bands, highlights for Urfaust
Urfaust is my fave…
Paysage d'hiver is amazing
Just here to learn about more black metal bands :)
Drudkh rules) great video!
Bands from "who?" tier: Cult of Fire, Nargaroth, Paysage d'Hiver, Samael, Urfaust, Vargrav. Could be wrong btw
Ah paysage and samael they’d be high too and cult of fire ! That’s the band I couldn’t remember iconic logo too
Urfaust - Ritual Music For The True Clochard is an S tier BM release
@@Questformetal You forgot to put bands like Stalaggh and Emit. Stalaggh album like Pure Misanthropia and Emit - The Dark Bleeding album are Masterpiece.
You forgot Tsjuder, Urgehal, Beastcraft, Behexen, Kampfar, Koldbrann, Dark Funeral, Naglfar, Summoning, Belphegor etc…
And it‘s Criminal that you don‘t know Nargaroth!
Mostly agreeable list, except if Drudkh and Inquisition are S+, then surely Emperor & Dissection belong there too. Dissection has been a huge influence for many bands for more than 20 yrs.
Also, Celtic Frost is higher up for me.
one thing litterly every black metal fan can agree on is Dissection is always S+
if not S+++
I miss Dark Funeral Funeral Mist and Lord Belial on this List!!!
Drudkh, Deathspell Omega,Emperor,Enslaved, Anaal Nathrakh,Dissection and Nokturnal Mortum are purr S tier
Sad they don’t have Rotting Christ or Necromantia ..these two influenced half of the bands in this video
cant understand why nobody remembers borknagar, they dont have a bad album and were there on the beginning, amazing band, def S tier for me
Yeah they seemed ignored by quest and trenchs and thrawls
Great video! Leviathan is my favorite definitely an S+ for me also probably would've put Shining in A tier.
I certainly recognize that these types of things are subjective and everyone has their own opinions, but I find it notable that Drudkh and Panopticon are so far apart on the ratings when to me those two bands are quite similar. Or maybe it's just me because both bands have prominent albums with the word "Autumn" in their titles.
They are similar but so is winterfylleth and saor and gallowbraid now that band would be S+ but ye I just prefer other similar sounding bands to panopticon I’m afraid
for me panopticon are far better than drudkh because they aren't actual self professed nazis
@@hightreason bruh
Thanks for the recommendation. I need more bands like Drudkh to enjoy.
I keep waiting on you to say something about Weakling in your black metal videos. Your favorite metal band is Opeth and you also love Leviathan. That is literally the formula for Weakling. They only did one album, Dead As Dreams, but it is so good you have mention them among the GOATs of not just black metal but all metal.
This sounds like a good idea
Edit: 00:32 OK I take that back
(don't take it seriously)
Well! Dear Sir! You are wrong:)
Mgla and Satyricon deserves to be up in the top, and Marduk too. Otherwise I don`t care what you think hehe;) Thanks for a great channel.
Cheers from Sweden.
And Bathory too obviosly...
Thanks to you, I got into Inquisition and now am a lifelong fan. I even (almost) learned every song on guitar from Nefarious Dismal Orations. Hail Dagon and hail Incubus!
Your ranking is generally solid, I agree with most positions, with a few exceptions. I'd rank Satyricon a bit higher, maybe C, just for their classic material up to Nemesis Divina. Negura Bunget needs to be higher, their material is gorgeously well done and I'd rank it at least at an A, if not S. Ulver should be a B. Mayhem, mgla, Gorgoroth and Dissection should be A.
The list is also missing some crucial BM bands, including Sargeist, Rotting Christ, Hate Forest, Nokturnal Mortum, Lucifugum, Necrophobic, Saor, Summoning, Peste Noire, all of which would easily be A tier bands or higher (Rotting Christ S).
Ancient is also missing and fairly well known, but apart from their first album they're pretty shit so who cares.
The III and A is Samael
A solid list 99% of which i totally agree with.
I'd put Emperor, Agalloch, Panopticon, Saor, Fen, and Cradle of Filth in the S/A tier, while Drudkh, Wolves in the Throne Room, Ulver, Woods of Desolation, Borknagar, Taake, and Winterfylleth are more B/C tier, they have solid albums, but some of them are more hit-or-miss.
Mikael?
@@Sun_Seeker Sorrow...
Opeth is gothic sludge nsbm pop metal geography@@Sun_Seeker
@@anony-moon cool
Questy gets it right!
🤘Hail Dagon and Incubus🤘
🤘INQUISITION = GOAT Black Metal Bands.🤘
Shout out to Bryce for turning Questy on to this genius 2 piece band
It's a good list ! personally I would put NEGURA BUNGET higher in list A, great band I have all their albums
My list
S: Deathspell Omega, dissection, Emperor, Enslaved, immortal, inquisition,
A: Burzum, Darkthrone, Bathory, deafheaven, drudkh, mayhem, mgła, venom, watain,
B: Abbath, Celtic frost (I only listen to morbid tales), Dimmu Borgir, gorgoroth, leviathan (I haven’t heard enough to put them in a or s), marduk, Ulver,
C: 1349, Beherit, judas iscariot, Satyricon
D: Behemoth
E: carpathian forest, panopticon (great drumming, awful vocals and melodies. Shitty bm, shitty folk), thorns (just not for me)
F:
Don’t Listen: Blut Aus Nord, deströyer 666, enthroned, havukruunu, nargaroth, shining, taake, ruins of beverast (i know I need to listen to them)
Behemoth is more Blacked Death than Black Metal. You should listen Blut Aus Nord ;).
I agree with most of this list but I personally would have put dissection, xasthur a tier higher, I was also surprised to see nargaroth so low.
The fourth band on your "Who?" tier is Samael from Switzerland which i kinda enjoy but not quite as much as some of my friends. Actually i never dived into them as well. Keep up the great work my man and Greetings from Germany!
I think the GE D is Paysage D’hiver. Absolute A tier band fursure. S+ would have been for me, bathory, burzum, panopticon, Darkthrone, and enslaved
Last band you don't know the logo is Vargrav. Definitely recommend it!
Man no one seems to love 1349. Beyond the apocalypse is one of my favorite black metal albums
Please check out "Upon Earth - World Funeral EP"
Raw Black Metal from the Netherlands.
Kanye Quest is better than Kanye west… great tier list bud
I started only 2 years ago with Black Metal coming more from Prog Metal and Classic Metal. So I have a stronger connection to the Atmospheric side. Also I do not really know some of the classic bands. Emperor, Bathory, Immortal, Negura Bunget etc. are all still on my ToDO list. I also started with Drudkh, but it's unfair to rank them after just one listen to one album. They might get quite high in the end. And Mare Cognitum might also climb to the top tier in the future.
I definitely don't like Mayhem, Gorgoroth and this kind of stuff. Same with Cradle of Filth and Behemoth. Tried it, but not for me, thanks.
My list so far:
S+
Enslaved
Saor
Agalloch
S
Mare Cognitum
Winterfylleth
Windir
Felled
A
Panopticon
Belenos
Havukruunu
Borknagar
B
Fuath
Audn
Wolves in the Throne Room
Can Bardd
Aquilus
Kanonenfieber
C
Spectral Lore
Ulver
D
Dissection
Stormkeep
Damn, hurts my feels seeing you put Dissection and Stormkeep so low.
@@ms-06fzakuii53 After relistening a couple of times, I would put Stormkeep higher, maybe in B
What are your favorite songs by Mare Cognitum?
Top 15 or top 10 if you don't mind
@@rahmatsumantri6577 In no particular order:
Pyre of Ascendance
Noumenon
The First Point Of Aries
Antaresian
Luminous Accretion
@@simond1574 Thank you so much🤘
Good List! I would rank them differently of course, I would suggest that you check out Paysage D' Hiver from the "Who?" Tier
Dimmu and Darkthrone higher! But we still love you Questy.
All you need now is another tier at the top called 'The Best' where you can put Djevel and Windir
I know it's probably blasphemy and as much as I love The Somberlian and Storm of the Lights Bane. Reinkaos is my favorite Dissection album. Black Dragon is one of my favorite songs of all time.
I'm really curious to what he thinks of TotalSelfHatred. I think he's only ever mentioned them like twice
They are great short discography though
@@Questformetal Any preferred songs by them? And is the short discography the reason you aren't doing a video on them?
Yeah only like 3 albums the debut is their best they’d be like B or A tier for me
@@Questformetal Their song called Enlightment is amazing i think and is my favourite. What u think questy
You should check out Entroned amazing early discography with Sabathan on vocals after he left I didn't pay attention to them.
I like that panopticon is from Kentucky since that’s my home state but that’s about all.
Now make a list which ones i can support without supporting murderers or nazis
The three lines and the A is Samael and the one next to them is Urfaust, one of the best BM bands from the Netherlands. Highly recommended.
A Teir
Xasthur, Darkthrone, Ulver, (Dimmu Borgir isn't black metal)
B Teir
Judus Iscariot, Gorgeroth, 1349, Behemoth, Emperor, Bathory, Al-namrood, Vreid
C Teir
Watain, Dark Space, Arch Goat, Mutiilation, Coldworld, Batushka.
D Teir
Burzum, Immortal, Dissection, Beherit, Leviathan, Celtic Frost, Venom, Mgta, Mayham, Enslaved, Inquisition.
F Teir
Carpathian Forrest, Abbath, (Deafheaven isn't black metal)
Edit: This is strictly my opinion/ taste of what I like to listen to, the list doesn't take into account how influential, a band is or anything like that.
What are your favorite songs by Judas Iscariot?
Top 5 or 10 if you don't mind
I stopped watching when you put Celtic Frost in D.
Belphegor?
Also MGLA is top tier
That Who first band is Cult Of Fire. Hindu/ Buddhist based Melodic BM like Mgla from Czechoslovakia. the Second to last Who band is Urfaust, Dutch duo
The first who? band Im pretty sure is cult of fire.
Dark Funeral?
No Aosoth?! No Dark Funeral? What are Deathspell Omega and Emperor not doing at the very top???!
I am annoyed.
Emperor at A is insane in da membrane
Listen to "Bloem" from Fluisteraars. It's amazing, you will love it!
Mutiilation and Goatmoon i think should be on this list. Great bands (with some weird story). Did know most of the bands, but didn't knew of a few like the ones you have put in the S+ tier. Cradle Of Filth, Belphegor, Dark Funeral are missing, not just they're should be on the list, they're missing.
And yeah, Mgla spells as "mhgla" not "meegla" which is confusing to me even as a slavic too, because that's polish. Didn't knew how to prounonce that as well. By the way I think their EP's are superior to the albums. And strangely that Mgla is on the list, but Batushka is not.
Mayhem for me is a cringe. 1993 and 2019 the only albums i really understand.
Which Batushka would you want on the list, lol?
@@colonizer5219 I like both, but Drabikovskiy is more preferable than Krisuk
Alcest? Mare Cognitum? Don’t know Leviathan. Which one? Too many bands with that name. Please give an album name. Thanks.
type in The 10th sublevel of suicide or howl mockery at the cross
Totally agree on inqusition
Agalloch ,burzum and windir are the best for me
Good taste
Beherit is amazing.
Is that mystery logo Oransi Pazuzu?
Agree on Drudkh
ENSLAVED!!!!!!!!!
What do you think of Nargaroth? it's in the who? tier
Putting Celtic Frost in the D section is total heresy. ;) They are better than all the bands on this list, sure they aren't black metal in the more modern norwegian kinda way so maybe they shouldnt have been here at all, kinda like how every band on this list wouldn't have been here without Celtic Frost. hehe Cheers!
Haha knew you’d love that but yeah them and venom shouldn’t even be on the list
Goatmoon, satanic warmaster, sargiest, drowning the light, craft, should all be on the list
What are your favorite songs by Satanic Warmaster? Top 15 or 10 if you don't mind
You lost me you put Nargoroth at "who?". Find time to listen to them. Also take a look at Grima
What is the name of the band that is next to Inquisition?
Drudkh
Surprised to not see Agalloch on here since you have lots of ther genre blend bands included.
I didn’t make the tier list it was a pre made
mgła & dissection are s for me especially dissection
i can usually separate art from artists but i cant do that with dissection lmao
5:30 cult of fire
the fact dissection isnt in S+++ means this list is invalid
Why are you calling Burzum "they"? Its literally just Varg
link please 🙏🙏
Bro doesn't know Urfaust 😢
I used to say dr-ud-kh lol yeah its drook
Is Summoning not on this list??
Immortal ranked higher than Marduk lol..
Immortal had a couple of good albums in the 90’s the rest really sucks.. Marduk has so many killer album..
Been listening to lots of black metal lately, so I’ll do what I know on here. Love the tier lists btw.
S+: Drudkh, Behemoth, Darkthrone
S: Deafheaven, Enslaved, Leviathan, Marduk, Taake,
A: Blut Aus Nord, Deathspell Omega, Dissection, Emperor, Lunar Aurora, Inquisition, Windir
B: Bathory, Immortal, Judas Iscariot, Mayhem, Mgła, Negura Bunget, Panopticon, Ruins of Bevrast,
C: 1349, Beherit, Carpathian Forest, Deströyer 666, Enthroned, Gorgoroth, Ragnarock, Shining, Thorns, Venom, Watain, Winterfylleth,
D: Abbath, Celtic Frost, Burzum, Dimmu Borgir, Satyricon, Ulver, Xasthur
S+ = greatest
S = amazing
A = great
B = very good
C = ok/decent
D = not a fan/only like a little
Limited myself to 3 in s+ so it’s hard lol. Deafheaven is so close to s+. I left off the ones I don’t know or at least not enough to judge.
The best black metal band is obviously sematary smh
😂😂
A: mayhem, dark-throne, burzum, leviathan,
B:carpathian forest ,behirit, gorgoroth dimmu borgir
C: bathery, emperor, weakeling, mork,
D:behemoth ,blut aus nord, drudkh,
Inquisition, death spell omega, destroyer 666, immortal,
What are your favorite songs by Beherit? Top 15 or 10 if you don't mind
drudkh S+ and mgla B, good logic.
Drudkh is my favourite bm band of all time and mgla is not so yeah it’s pretty good logic 🤤
No Naglfar? Sir, you wound me.
Lord Bali
Where’s bathory
Name list plz and tnx for list saludos de argentina 🤘🏻
A tier - Dimmu borgir, Immortal, Dark funeral, Cradle of filth, Satyricon.
Where are septic cockrot?
Hard disagree
Where the fuck is Burzum
Peste noire, nagelfar , fortresses ...
What are your favorite songs by Peste Noire?
Top 10 or 15 if you don't mind
ΘΟΥ ΚΥΡΙΕ ΦΥΛΑΚΗΝ ΤΩ ΣΤΟΜΑΤΙ ΜΟΥ
mutiilation cmon
I don’t understand how people can listen to nsbm. It’s just not moral for me personally
Modernity is a hell of a drug
only weirdos listen to nsbm lol
Lol why
@@coreycrossman3447 I don’t think nazism has any place in metal. Sure it’s a topic to write about, but being in full support of it is something I just can’t get behind
1349 C, Drudkh S+.
Stopped watching.
and mgla B, uwoww then i threw this list in the garbage
xathur in a tier and venom and celtic frost in d tier is STRAIGHT clownin
We live in a society 🤡
Why do you like thrash metal more than black metal????????
@purplepurple8179 that's a loaded question. The aforementioned bands are classic as fuck and make some of the best metal of all time. Venom and celtic frost are so much more than a couple "thrash bands" they were instrumental in the formation of extreme metal in general. I'm not knocking the second wave stuff and onwards though it's great
@@joubertrouret2769 Neither are black metal. They are thrash bands that laid the groundwork for what became black metal, mostly just in terms of imagery. How good they are is irrelevant. People think of this stuff as black metal mostly because of that sam dunn clown and his metal movies. Over analysis by a bunch of poser pussies. Chronos from venom even said that what is considered black metal is not remotely the same as what they were doing. They were influences on the formation of black metal but were not black metal. Non musicians and shitty musicians always fixate on the superficial aspects of genre and disregard the actual music.