Can Axial Flux motor improve range and efficiency for EVs in the future
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- In this video I am looking at benefits of Axial Flux motors in comparison to a traditional Radial flux motors very commonly used in Tesla and most modern EVs
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Awesome video!
Radial Flux motor : to the drum brake
Axial Flux Motor : to the disc brake
That's a simple analogy and very helpful to understand the concept
Thanks so much for sharing this
👍👍👍
Thanks for your comment I thought that it might be a good analogy to use
As in a comment below, I also looked at a number of videos to get a better understanding but found this one the best I have seen so far. I liked the disc/drum brake analogy and the r cubed versus r squared formula.
Thank you I am glad you found it useful
Thanks for the video. I had watched some other videos on axial flux motors, and yours is very clear and easier to follow. I am glad that you covered the Koenigsegg Quark motor, because it is fascinating to me. Being small and relatively light makes sense, and high torque follows as well with the design, but it is interesting that the Quark motor makes immense power initially, but just for a short time, and then drops down to more realistic performance. I am not sure if this is related to heat buildup, or other factors. But realistically this is generally how normal EV drivers will need their power. With peak power on demand for a few seconds when accelerating from a stop, or say merging onto the freeway, but after that brief point of higher power requirements, having high efficiency is more important, say driving on the freeway. I wonder if Koenigsegg has plans to build a smaller, less powerful, less expensive motor for use in more affordable EVs?
If you watch magnax video the Axial motor has more torque while radial has more power. Koenigsegg combined both into one. This should give you benefits of economy and acceleration. I would love to see this motor on Aptera
@@LatutaEV I contacted Elaphe, who will be building the Aptera's in-wheel motors, and they said that they had looked at using an axial design, but found the best balance between power and efficiency being in their radial in-wheel design. They did get a relatively lightweight motor as a result, with 67HP(50kW) and a whopping 516 ftlb (701 nm) of torque, and this power X 2 or 3 wheel motors in the Aptera's lightweight, aerodynamic body gets solid performance, and exceptional efficiency.
I'd argue that the limited energy density of current batteries means that it would be a good idea to improve the efficiency of motors and control electronics.
Once better batteries come around, the increased efficiency of the new motors and control circuitry would improve things even more.
I would argue that one must address the limiting factor which is battery. There is even a channel on RUclips with the same name. But batteries are a hard problem to tackle I suppose you may pick low hanging fruit if you can
Thanks for the information! Just a minor correction: Tesla is using internal permanent magnet (IPM) synchronous reluctance motors (SynRM), not PM switched reluctance motors.
Then, for the pros and cons, on the one hand, you're saying that AF motors would be much easier to manufacture. A moment later you're stating that it is considered that AF motors are more difficult to manufacture. I'm sure that the latter statement is correct because otherwise, AF motors would have been integrated in most of the EVs by now.
Thanks for the correction, I did check it before I was recording but didn't recite it correctly. I don't like myself when people give incorrect information, sorry
Cool Video! Koenigsegg is really making some amazing stuff, how they used this motor in the gemera is just insane... Sad ill never be able to afford one
Yes true but apparently that motor was designed by Yassa motors in uk
Depends entirely on 3 things
1.motor efficiency (determines the watts per km/mile needed)
2. Mass of vehicle (less mass less energy needed to move the given mass)
3. Aerodynamic drag (reduction in drag reduces the amount of energy needed to move through the atmosphere)
If a motor is 95% efficient and another motor of a different design is also 95% efficient then they will use the se amount of power assuming everything else is equivalent, in terms of motor mass axil flux are lighter.
Thanks for your effort.
Nice educational video
I hope you change your plan from Prius transmission to GS450h transmission .
Thank you very much. Yes the next step either Tesla Small drive unit or GS450h. They are not cheap though 😉
when magnet rotates its ac,
when coils rotate its dc,
when both rotate its fc(free current)
I recommend watching ac induction and DC induction motor videos
The power of a V8 in a 65lb. motor. That's mind blowing. 😳
Yes amazing isn't it ...
BTW: the Lohner-Porsche, built between 1900 and 1905 was a serial hybrid electric car with 2 or 4 axial flux motors, which were integated in the front wheels or all 4 wheels respectively.
Yes it's amazing isn't it. I knew that he made hybrid but I didn't know it was axial motor
@@LatutaEV a very special motor and 3-phase commutator design was used which was developed by Nicola Tesla. The rotor had an electromagnetic excitation.
Electromagnetic excitation is under consideration today in order to avoid permanent magnet material and to vary the back EMF to get better efficiencies for the whole motor speed range.
@@gkdresden But Tesla seems sticking with permanent magnets but trying to move away from rare earth magnets
Axial motor shape has some resemblance of a torq converter
Thank you sir for yet another great video! And now, for the real question: Could anyone hack the Prius inverter to control an axial motor like the EMRAX 228 (a dream of mine is to gei it into my conversion)? What is your take on that, sir? Any thoughts?
In theory it should be possible I know that some axial flux motors require faster switching speeds so IGBTs may be not fast enough but I suspect that it may be possible. You almost reading my mind with your question. 😉 And thank you for mentioning EMRAX as I have not heard about them before
So, you can quite easily install axial flux hub motors directly into the wheels, remove the engine and drive train, install short range batteries and use the large surface area an the bottom to install an induction charging coil to wirelessly charge while you drive and park. Problem solved. And charge the grid with solar panels.
Well you have very futuristic view on this but yes that is something that could be implemented. I am not a fan of in-wheel motors. Big unsprung weight is not a good idea
Man I can’t wait for the Prius videos I’ve been on my seat to see what it can do . I’m betting on putting it on my e30 as my first try at ev
Yes the work goes on, I am trying to get batteries and more videos are coming. I love E30 I wish they were not that expensive I could get one to do a conversion ☺️
@@LatutaEV you actually inspired me to do the conversion I was originally going with a corvette ls . E30 are getting expensive nowadays 🥲 but I lucky got mine from s friend that did not want it . And funny enough they are light . Perfect for this kinda swap .
@@deepw3bs I am glad that you decided to have a go. This could be a nice conversion ☺️
@@LatutaEV well you inspired me to make it possible I’ll definitely try to make a video about and recommend people to check out your guide
At 4:26, I noticed that the rotors were not "true" to the stator. They wobbled.
Is this an intentional component of the design? Or perhaps, a glitch in the graphics software?
I don't think this is intentional just a graphic not perfect
Hi Sir thank you for your best Information . pleas can you tell me what is PRICE FOR THIS QUARK MOTOR 250KW THANKS
I don't know what the price is for the motor. I am not even sure if they are selling to anyone.
The title promises to demonstrate that the axial motor makes an EV more "efficient" but it fails to do so. The 30 to 90% thing has nothing to do with radial vs axial, radial ones already have >90% efficiency. The r2 vs r3 scaling of the torque argument is not comprehensible, is the torque of an axial easier to use? it eliminates a gear box for the same power? How does the comparison with the brakes help?
The 30 to 90 was a step from ice to AC induction further on I stipulated whether it may be possible to make another step to increase efficiency further. Many people found comparison with the drum brakes helpful to understand the narrative of flux motor
@@LatutaEVThe energy efficiency increase between an ice and an electric motor is meaningless because it compares two systems which employ vastly different fuels. If you use gasoline with an electric motor, with whatever gadget in between, you get back to no better than 30 %. The meaningful comparison is between the fuels.
I don't think you can hope to significantly increase any small electric motor efficiency from the present radial motor efficiency which is in the 90% range already, 100% is the limit. All your considerations about efficiency are of little use in comparing radial and axial motors for a simple reason: they are already very very similar and near to the top.
The same is essentially true for the comparison with the two types of brake, they are both 100% efficient. You can’t decide which system to employ based on energy efficiency, hence you can’t look at a brake for a rationale to decide between radial and axial motors. If there is a reason to make one superior to the other, which on occasion must be the case, you should mention it explicitly.
The generic r scalings presented are incompatible with simple dimensional considerations, unless you specify what you keep constant, for example an r dependent property in one case which is left free in the other.
Insane people: seems perfect in a motorcycle
Yes that would be cool. Or one motor for each wheel
Does it come with a battery that doesn't blow up?
Hey you need to watch my video about BYD Blade battery😜
Showing wining of radial while talking about axial??? confusing
Quark motor is a clever way for EV application..., but main game player in this field (Elon) has more powerful marketing power with (own) poorer technical solution.
Yes that's true but hopefully Mercedes having acquired Yassa motors can put their marketing power behind that product
Ha, guess so
Take apart almost any VCR from the 1980's and youll find an axial flux motor inside. Its not new technology people!!!
I don't think that I stated that it is new. The question I was asking if it can improve efficiency of EVs. The first generator developed by Michael Faraday was axial flux type lol.
Make this video in hindi please.
Is this a request?😅
@@LatutaEV yes
@@omprakashsharma3359 you can press on the CC putton on the top right of RUclips screen and select the translated language as hindu language
@@mohamedsalah6943 there is no option for hindi, only english.
Jc30u0
???
Axial flux EV motors are very old news, decades old in fact. Only by cherry picking data, can you claim they're so much better. They can be very good motors indeed and the form factor a real advantage for some aplications, but the axial flux often has them beat. Many people are rushing to invest in the EV sector and much of recent hype is mostly just fishing for investment money.
Looking at the published wh/mile figures a Model 3 is about 20% more efficient that a Model S and it's a smaller car with less drag.
Perhaps you right and if you noticed that the video title was with the question mark. But this is certainly a good question which will be answered in time. As far as I know Mercedes did acquire Yasa Motors. I guess they have seen promise in the axial flux motor technology.
Hi Paul I have just re-read your comment, did you meant to say radial flux motor often has them beat? I would love to know what are the major disadvantages of axial flux apart from those I have not mentioned?