just wondering, in raidal flux setup, there is permanent magnet on rotor surface setup. And pm-sync reluctance setup that trade off better torque to magnetic material ratio for energy efficiency. How come in axial flux design, all the rotor are fully surfaced with magnet and there is no reluctance version of the axial motor. Or at less common enough that i cant find it on google. I would imagine you can get the similar benefit of better torque to magnet material at the cost of energy would still hold true here.
@@keenheat3335 in the case of the dual stator machine the most common machine has no iron in the rotor, the magnets are suspended in a composite rotor. The design of the rotors and magnetic coupling mean there is less iron available for reluctance.
Long known and used in electrical appliances, the capstan motor in a video player, the motors in the pro cassette deck player, washing machines with direct drive motor, harddisk motor, ... Simple and good.
That depends on the machine, some use oil cooling, some water/glycol and some air. Air cooled are less power dense as with all motors. Torus style usually need oil cooling
It depends on the machine type, the dual rotor single stator or yokeless style machines usually use oil cooling, the single rotor dual stator machines are easier to cool the stators as they can be mounted to the cooling jacket like the Turntide/Avid EVO axial flux
I think Mercedes are starting to talk openly now about their model plan for axial flux machines, so within their next development cycle (3-4 years) I suspect. The other cars using axial flux are really "popular" but more as a pinup poster ;-)
On a like for like basis in terms of diameter and volume either of the axial flux topologies, and optimising for that speed I would think the dual stator single rotor would come out best. Think of the active material surface area
The red and blue flux lines around 0:49 are completely wrong. What's really bad is that the narration explains that the motor type is named for the *axial* direction of flux, while the graphic shows tangential flux. In general, the graphics of the video do nothing to explain flux paths or how that flux produces torque.
Thanks for the comment, although I don’t agree that these lines are incorrect and they do show the principle, it’s hard for people to visualise the 3D field and this has been helpful.
@etech49 it's not helpful, because the lines take the wrong path. Have you looked at the flux path as shown by any competent source? Do you understand that for a motor to produce torque the flux lines must connect a pole face of the stator to a pole face of the rotor?
@ yes I understand how an axial flux machine works quite well thank you, and am satisfied that the lines as shown provide a useful reference to help explain what is happening with a machine. Thanks for the comment anyway.
@etech49 if you think those flux lines explain what is happening, you don't understand how any motor - or even a simple electromagnet - works. If you don't have your school science textbooks handy, I suggest the Wikipedia page for "Electromagnet" as a starting point.
You managed to list several axial-flux motor manufacturers and miss the only one producing motors used in a production battery-electric aircraft. That's EMRAX, of course.
Thanks for mentioning Emrax, although I would disagree that they are the only company producing axial motors used in production aircraft and have been in this space for several years. Their motors were commonly used for assist in gliders but because of the lack of external housing effectively have an open rotor design which means they are only suited to a limited range of applications.
@etech49 I should have said battery-electric _certified production_ aircraft; there is only one of those (from Pipistrel), and it uses an EMRAX motor. I agree that EMRAX motors are of limited use, and Pipistrel had to do so much work on the model that they brand it as their own product... and it still needs routine bearing replacement at an unreasonably short interval.
@@brianb-p6586 yes this is correct they are Torus style, which sounds a lot like Taurus. I’m guessing you are reading the subtitle file which is created automatically …
just wondering, in raidal flux setup, there is permanent magnet on rotor surface setup. And pm-sync reluctance setup that trade off better torque to magnetic material ratio for energy efficiency. How come in axial flux design, all the rotor are fully surfaced with magnet and there is no reluctance version of the axial motor. Or at less common enough that i cant find it on google. I would imagine you can get the similar benefit of better torque to magnet material at the cost of energy would still hold true here.
@@keenheat3335 in the case of the dual stator machine the most common machine has no iron in the rotor, the magnets are suspended in a composite rotor.
The design of the rotors and magnetic coupling mean there is less iron available for reluctance.
Long known and used in electrical appliances, the capstan motor in a video player, the motors in the pro cassette deck player, washing machines with direct drive motor, harddisk motor, ... Simple and good.
The equations were very helpful, thank you 😂❤
How is the heat dissipation on axial flux. Are they air cooled ,or emersed in a coolant or a fluid?
That depends on the machine, some use oil cooling, some water/glycol and some air. Air cooled are less power dense as with all motors.
Torus style usually need oil cooling
how are they handling coil cooling?
It depends on the machine type, the dual rotor single stator or yokeless style machines usually use oil cooling, the single rotor dual stator machines are easier to cool the stators as they can be mounted to the cooling jacket like the Turntide/Avid EVO axial flux
Why not have a Radial flux motor but use the ends of rotor Axial Flux? 1rotor 2 stator configuration?
I'm curious when are we going to see first (popular) EV with those motors.
I think Mercedes are starting to talk openly now about their model plan for axial flux machines, so within their next development cycle (3-4 years) I suspect. The other cars using axial flux are really "popular" but more as a pinup poster ;-)
Я у себя в мастерской делаю такие двигатели!! У меня на канале крайнее видео , и мне не надо быть компанией мерседес , чтоб их производить💪
Not likely. However, see Raxial motors.
what is maximum torque at 50-400RPM?
axial flux: single stator dual rotor or dual stator single rotor?
or Outrunner?
On a like for like basis in terms of diameter and volume either of the axial flux topologies, and optimising for that speed I would think the dual stator single rotor would come out best. Think of the active material surface area
The red and blue flux lines around 0:49 are completely wrong. What's really bad is that the narration explains that the motor type is named for the *axial* direction of flux, while the graphic shows tangential flux.
In general, the graphics of the video do nothing to explain flux paths or how that flux produces torque.
Thanks for the comment, although I don’t agree that these lines are incorrect and they do show the principle, it’s hard for people to visualise the 3D field and this has been helpful.
@etech49 it's not helpful, because the lines take the wrong path.
Have you looked at the flux path as shown by any competent source? Do you understand that for a motor to produce torque the flux lines must connect a pole face of the stator to a pole face of the rotor?
@ yes I understand how an axial flux machine works quite well thank you, and am satisfied that the lines as shown provide a useful reference to help explain what is happening with a machine.
Thanks for the comment anyway.
@etech49 if you think those flux lines explain what is happening, you don't understand how any motor - or even a simple electromagnet - works.
If you don't have your school science textbooks handy, I suggest the Wikipedia page for "Electromagnet" as a starting point.
Double rotor increases torque. Thank you.
You managed to list several axial-flux motor manufacturers and miss the only one producing motors used in a production battery-electric aircraft. That's EMRAX, of course.
Thanks for mentioning Emrax, although I would disagree that they are the only company producing axial motors used in production aircraft and have been in this space for several years. Their motors were commonly used for assist in gliders but because of the lack of external housing effectively have an open rotor design which means they are only suited to a limited range of applications.
@etech49 I should have said battery-electric _certified production_ aircraft; there is only one of those (from Pipistrel), and it uses an EMRAX motor.
I agree that EMRAX motors are of limited use, and Pipistrel had to do so much work on the model that they brand it as their own product... and it still needs routine bearing replacement at an unreasonably short interval.
@ so not a big deal that they’re not mentioned then…
There is not such thing as "taurus" motors - there are no bulls involved. Presumably you meant "toroid" or "torus".
@@brianb-p6586 yes this is correct they are Torus style, which sounds a lot like Taurus. I’m guessing you are reading the subtitle file which is created automatically …
@etech49 what's a subtitle file? I'm watching the video and reading the titles shown over the image in large text - you must have typed that.