Voron 2.4 Step By Step Part 13 Tuning, SuperSlicer and First Print

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  • Опубликовано: 5 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 138

  • @davidhaney1394
    @davidhaney1394 11 месяцев назад +2

    Scott , you don`t need to take the hot end off you calulate the rotation distance . you just heat it up to 220 and do it as you normally would , mark the filament , extrude 50mm see how much it actually extruded . calc the rotation distance , and run 50mm again to make sure its correct . Thats all is needed . Thanks for your grreat vids .

  • @oishisakana
    @oishisakana 2 года назад +1

    ty for this vid. Saved me from myself. Just finished my build and like a fool I calibrated extruder steps by extruding through a hot hot end and not just removing it and calibrating that way. I've made many more mistakes and crashes but your video series has served great reference to get me up and running. Many thanks.

    • @scottcorn
      @scottcorn  2 года назад

      Thank you. Sorry was away on business for the last week.

    • @ashleywhitehead3710
      @ashleywhitehead3710 2 года назад

      This is a misconception. Calibrating through a hotend or with it removes makes zero difference. Your final flow numbers in your slicer may be slightly different but the result will be the same.
      Technically removing the hotend will give you a more accurate measurement of rotation but because of the way the flow value is calibrated in the slice it doesn't matter. The flow rate number in the slicer might be slightly different but the result will be exactly the same.

    • @oishisakana
      @oishisakana 2 года назад

      @@ashleywhitehead3710 Neat!

    • @maiorciprian
      @maiorciprian 2 года назад

      @@ashleywhitehead3710 This! I never calibrate rotatio-distance with the hotend removed. Just lower the speed to 1mm/s and measure properly. Doing it with the hotend removed might in fact hide mechanical problems with the extruding system: slipping feed gears, partially clogged nozzle, low heatblock temp. Fine tuning the extrusion is done in the slicer anyway.

  • @karenstevearmstrong4594
    @karenstevearmstrong4594 Год назад +4

    Hi Scott, thanks so much for this series of videos. You put an enormous amount of time in producing these. I just finished my 2.4 r2 today. your walk through of the set up and tuning was a life saver. I am printing my first Benchy right now. Thanks again and Happy New Year!! From a fellow hoosier. Steve

    • @scottcorn
      @scottcorn  Год назад

      You're very welcome! Hope your first print went well.

  • @saschacontes2305
    @saschacontes2305 2 года назад +1

    Thank you Scott, its a great series. I specifically like the time you take for each single step. It makes it very easy to follow. Thanks for your efforts and all the patience.

    • @scottcorn
      @scottcorn  2 года назад +1

      No problem. I'm working on input shaper at the moment.

    • @adrianstealth340
      @adrianstealth340 2 года назад

      I did just the same , it’s not remembering my Z offset )-:

    • @scottcorn
      @scottcorn  2 года назад

      @@adrianstealth340 I don't know that it was related, but I had Z offset issues as well. It took me redoing Z_ENDSTOP_CALIBRATE to get back to working order.

  • @younghillionaire
    @younghillionaire 10 месяцев назад

    Thank you so much for your videos.
    I just finished building my 2.4 R2 with stealthburner and Rapido hotned
    I followed every video step by step
    very helpful and thorough
    struggled with the SB and the AB belts because yours in AB and different X for the rails.

  • @ViniR1995
    @ViniR1995 2 года назад

    Thanks Scott! Complete newb to 3D printing here. Built a 2.4 alongside your tutorials and it worked like a charm.

  • @ashleywhitehead3710
    @ashleywhitehead3710 2 года назад

    Seeing the first print come of your voron is a special moment indeed. 🥳
    I would just like to point out that all the parts external to the enclosure do not need to be ABS. You can print all the panel mounting parts and skirts in PLA. Hell I even printed the exhaust fan grill that is inside the enclosure in PLA and it's been fine.
    Accent parts might be slightly different colour tone to ABS in PLA. But you can print all the enclosure mounts and door hinges in PLA and then print the skirts in ABS once you have the enclosure in place.

    • @scottcorn
      @scottcorn  2 года назад

      I've just been printing with ABS so far. I'll have to try PLA before long.

    • @maiorciprian
      @maiorciprian 2 года назад

      I print my non-structural parts in PLA or PETG as well. Not only is it cheaper but also easier to print and you get a much larger color palette selection.

  • @alejandroaguirre2355
    @alejandroaguirre2355 Год назад

    Thanks for all the help with everything Voron man I really like the video of how to crimp and wire your electronics up so that they look up to par, I'm just waiting on a few more parts so that I can start my voron 2.4R2 350 build Hope my build comes out good too

    • @scottcorn
      @scottcorn  Год назад

      No problem 👍 Good luck with the build!

  • @josephvanas6352
    @josephvanas6352 Год назад

    Scott, thanks so much for putting these videos together. I am good with hardware and mechanics and was able to get through assembly and wiring with just the voron docs, but as far as software configuration and programming go im pretty weak. Im sure I could have muddled through with the voron docs but it would have taken way more time than just following you.

    • @scottcorn
      @scottcorn  Год назад +1

      Glad to help! I've been a software engineer for 30+ years so it's the easiest part for me. The hardware is still the fun part for me though. lol

    • @josephvanas6352
      @josephvanas6352 Год назад

      @@scottcorn Thanks again! Just had my first successful print on the new machine! I do agree the hardware is much more interesting and enjoyable than the software.

  • @jonjon737
    @jonjon737 Год назад

    This video and the previous video in this series have been a tremendous help to me. Thanks!

  • @LaDK4
    @LaDK4 2 года назад +1

    Looks good. If you want your drag chains to lay down flat against the extrusions then flip the end links around. That way they won't be able to "curl" upwards.

    • @scottcorn
      @scottcorn  2 года назад

      Thank you.
      I may try that. I've not been too happy with the generic chains. I've just not talked myself into buying the igus ones yet.

  • @jamieg3165
    @jamieg3165 Год назад

    the best step by step series for the voron. thank you

  • @thatoneguy99100
    @thatoneguy99100 2 года назад +1

    Thank you for taking the time to make this series. It has saved me a lot of time on my 2.4 build!

  • @SchakkasRCGarage
    @SchakkasRCGarage 6 месяцев назад

    Hey Scott thank you so much, really saved my nervs and time. Going through you Step by Step Videos.

  • @MiZRTUBE
    @MiZRTUBE 2 года назад

    Best Voron build series yet, thanks and can't wait for the next video.

  • @Mr.Thermistor7228
    @Mr.Thermistor7228 Год назад

    Love the space trap vibes... Killing it bro

  • @alecbenson3737
    @alecbenson3737 2 года назад

    Lookin good Scott, I started my build around the same time as you and referenced your series several times. I'm up and printing just in time for the R2 and stealthburner updates.

    • @scottcorn
      @scottcorn  2 года назад

      That is awesome! I'm going to update to R2 at some point. I have the parts for stealthburner. I have a tool changer on my mind as well. I'll have to balance the two. I'm sitting here printing and realizing I need a nevermore added to the printer soon. lol I have a Hakko fume extractor, but I'm not running it for some stupid reason.

  • @petarbajai
    @petarbajai 2 года назад

    i have been watching them all and i cant thank you enough you have been really helpful to my build of the voron 2.4 r2 thanks again

  • @alexanderthompson9895
    @alexanderthompson9895 Год назад

    Fantastic series and super helpful! I'd say the only improvement I'd suggest is adding chapters so it's a bit easier to find the relevant section, but I know from experience it's a pain. Either way, thanks so much!

    • @scottcorn
      @scottcorn  Год назад +2

      Thank you! I know the chapters would make the videos better. I just haven't made myself sit down and do it. lol

  • @spanny52
    @spanny52 2 года назад

    Great video Scott, well done! I always drag the paper under the nozzle only so there is zero interference from the omron probe I'm using. Maybe that doesn't matter?

    • @scottcorn
      @scottcorn  2 года назад

      The paper under the nozzle is needed to get things close to begin with. After that test prints are needed to further refine. Thank you.

    • @spanny52
      @spanny52 2 года назад

      @@scottcorn right but the way you were doing it, you had the paper under the probe as well. Like I said, it probably won't even matter since it was probed from the start of the calibration.

  • @paindepices8144
    @paindepices8144 Год назад

    Hello, great video ! Wich command do you use to search a word in the printer.cfc ?

    • @scottcorn
      @scottcorn  Год назад

      Thank you!
      It is Windows key + F on Windows. Command key (same key as Windows key) + F on Mac.

  • @lcdconsultant5252
    @lcdconsultant5252 2 года назад +1

    Amazing first print. You did well as usual. Very helpful.
    What material, bed temp, extruded temp and print speed did you use?

    • @scottcorn
      @scottcorn  2 года назад

      Thank you.
      KVP ABS (I really like KVP), 110 to start 100 after, 240 to start 235 after and 300mm/s velocity 3000mm/3 Acceleration

  •  2 года назад

    thanks, nice tutorials, just a little tip, invert the cable guides so they don't force the cables and it's very simple

    • @scottcorn
      @scottcorn  2 года назад

      Thank you.
      Kinco3D was suggesting the same for the chains. These chains only bend in one direction so I'm not entirely sure what you are suggesting. Is there something I can reference out there to understand?

    • @michaellindborg1510
      @michaellindborg1510 2 года назад

      Just invert the first link next to the mount. It will look much better, the whole chain will lie flat on the gantry.

  • @ljuboizsiska5448
    @ljuboizsiska5448 2 года назад +1

    this is the best Voron series by far! Thank you for your effort. I have a problem and I would be happy if you could help me; when i try ssh from the terminal on my mac mini m1 i get an error message. When I try the same with a PC everything works without problems. I see that your terminal on the Mac mini works ok. Did you make any adjustments to the terminal?

    • @scottcorn
      @scottcorn  2 года назад

      You are welcome.
      No, it was the stock Mac install. What error are you getting? Maybe I can help.

    • @ljuboizsiska5448
      @ljuboizsiska5448 2 года назад

      @@scottcorn pi@fluiddpi:~ $ cd ~/klipper pi@fluiddpi:~/klipper $ make menuconfig Loaded configuration '/home/pi/klipper/.config' Traceback (most recent call last): File "lib/kconfiglib/menuconfig.py", line 3281, in _main() File "lib/kconfiglib/menuconfig.py", line 661, in _main menuconfig(standard_kconfig(doc)) File "lib/kconfiglib/menuconfig.py", line 705, in menuconfig locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, "") File "/usr/lib/python2.7/locale.py", line 581, in setlocale return _setlocale(category, locale) locale.Error: unsupported locale setting make: *** [Makefile:116: menuconfig] Error 1

    • @ljuboizsiska5448
      @ljuboizsiska5448 2 года назад

      @@scottcorn thank you for your kind reply

  • @omranello
    @omranello 2 года назад

    I have notice one thing that makes me wonder ( you did not tighten the scrows when connecting the Gantry to the Z rails "previous Videos" ) " i was waiting to see if you would tighten them in and i notice you did the QGL ( Minute 3 ) and you can still see it clear (front gantry moves few mm before the z rails moves with it ) ... is that how it supposed to be .... For the record i thank you a million time for the effort you did with your Videos explaining the build ... big fan and building my 2.4 with the help of your videos.

    • @scottcorn
      @scottcorn  2 года назад

      Once you do a QGL and while it is still level you should tighten the gantry mount screws. Didn't realize I didn't have that in my videos.

    • @omranello
      @omranello 2 года назад

      @@scottcorn thanks Scott ... now it makes sense ... had to double check all your Videos .. no harm ..you got more views :) and i learnt alot from you ... Thank alot

    • @scottcorn
      @scottcorn  2 года назад

      No problem. :)

  • @kevinklaas776
    @kevinklaas776 2 года назад +1

    Thank you ! Great tutorials. Almost gives me the confidence to try one myself.

    • @scottcorn
      @scottcorn  2 года назад

      You can do it. You just have to be patient. It does take some tools also so it's not a cheap thing unfortunately.

  • @warhammerTF
    @warhammerTF Год назад

    Great video! Lots of info in this one to get things going. Thanks very much.

  • @robertgosz4281
    @robertgosz4281 9 месяцев назад

    Thank you Scott !

  • @justinsfunthings8263
    @justinsfunthings8263 7 месяцев назад

    if you right click and "open" it just prompts you if you want to open the app instead of move to trash, no need to go into terminal

  • @allaboutpixhawkandrpi3691
    @allaboutpixhawkandrpi3691 2 года назад

    bro literally you are the best!

    • @scottcorn
      @scottcorn  2 года назад

      Thank you. Glad it was helpful.

  • @zwurltech9047
    @zwurltech9047 6 месяцев назад

    Yery helpful, thank you!

  • @ProjectRecon1
    @ProjectRecon1 2 года назад

    Can you do a video on how you would go through input shaper?

    • @scottcorn
      @scottcorn  2 года назад

      You are in luck, I just did this in my latest video.

  • @mistercloshak1568
    @mistercloshak1568 Год назад

    Hey Scott! Im following you since EP1 i builded my voron 2 300mm with your help and im new in the world of 3d printing. I tryed my first part yesterday in blue PLA and it was a success ! But i have a problem and i dont know how to fix it. When my toolhead is heating the filament come out of the nozzle and it is a problem when the printer make the BED_MESH i have PLA everywhere. Is there a way to fix that? thanks !

    • @scottcorn
      @scottcorn  Год назад

      I've been thinking about this. There are several possible reasons.
      1. You may be setting the hotend too hot. Check what the filament manufacturer recommends. Are you maybe running PLA at ABS temps? Check your slicer.
      2. Your nozzle could be worn out. Have you printed abrasive filament on a non-hardened nozzle?
      3. Do you have the wrong filament size in the slicer? Not set to 1.75?
      4. Are you using a large nozzle diameter? The larger the nozzle the more ooze.
      You can retract the filament when you are done with a print. You will need to run a purge of some kind at the start of a print of you do this. It also doesn't seem like this would have enough to get PLA everywhere. I retract 5mm at the end of a print. I do have a little ooze that I have to clean up before it z homes. I'm going to add a auto scrubber to my printer in the future.
      I'm sure there could be other reasons, but these are what come to mind as my most likely reasons.

  • @Ben-qh1ku
    @Ben-qh1ku Год назад

    Thanks for the great videos

  • @usmannaeem9018
    @usmannaeem9018 2 года назад

    I guess you aint gonna do it but I wish you do a video on how to add leds in the Stealth Burner.

    • @scottcorn
      @scottcorn  2 года назад

      I'm planning on doing a video on the stealth burner including the lights, but it will be a bit yet. I am adding LED lights on the top rail in the next video. I need the overhead lights for time-lapses.

  • @REALITY360
    @REALITY360 Год назад

    Did you speed up your footage at 24.45 or does it actually print that fast? I realize there was a jump cut at 24.58

  • @VVBT34
    @VVBT34 2 года назад

    Great series! I am running into an issue now though. When I go to do my first print and it attempts to do a QGL, it stops saying it can’t sense bed, but if I do a QGL from main screen without trying to print something, it performs QGL fine. Not sure what I am missing….

    • @scottcorn
      @scottcorn  2 года назад

      Does it do a home all first?

    • @VVBT34
      @VVBT34 2 года назад

      @@scottcorn yes. it homes X, Y and Z, then it displays "No trigger on probe after full movement" and stops at front corner.

    • @scottcorn
      @scottcorn  2 года назад

      @@VVBT34 It is related to the z limit switch in some way. Is the shaft on it maybe too long and it triggers to high above the bed? If that’s not it, maybe the z offset too large? Something is telling it that it should be triggering too far above the bed.

    • @VVBT34
      @VVBT34 2 года назад

      Found the issue. The sensor was just a hair too high. It would do quad level in testing, but not for print. Once lowered a smidge, t works as it should now.

    • @scottcorn
      @scottcorn  2 года назад

      Cool, I didn't think about the probe being slotted and can be moved. Glad you got it.

  • @mustaphaabdel-rasheed6957
    @mustaphaabdel-rasheed6957 2 года назад

    iam building my voron 2.4 according to you but i have a problem
    when i try to print i preheat then i start the print voron home the qgl the home again but after this it start to print on the z endstop
    iam using what you use iam just following your instructions

    • @scottcorn
      @scottcorn  2 года назад

      Are you saying that it starts extruding when it is still over the Z endstop? Sorry, I'm not understanding your question.

  • @GrumpyDave1
    @GrumpyDave1 Год назад

    Ah the joy of printing my first cube even though without tuning it just looks terrible.

    • @scottcorn
      @scottcorn  Год назад

      It will get better with tuning. It feels good to be to this point though.

  • @chucktaylor5878
    @chucktaylor5878 2 года назад

    At 6 min mark you take off the hotend wouldn't it make more sense to just remove the nozzle?

    • @scottcorn
      @scottcorn  2 года назад

      You could probably get by with that. You would need to be sure that there was no residual plastic.
      It's just so easy to remove the assembly that I chose to do it that way.
      The idea is there is no resistance on the filament. We are setting extrusion only not flow. That comes later.

    • @chucktaylor5878
      @chucktaylor5878 2 года назад

      @@scottcorn Good point about residual plastic, I have not printed with the printer yet so I should not have a problem. You did an Awwwwwwwwesome job with this series!! This is the best out there for sure I have been through them all but have to keep coming back to these because they are the best!! There are no good videos out on super slicer you may want to make one for the voron!!

    • @scottcorn
      @scottcorn  2 года назад

      I may do one in the future. I need to get back on a schedule with the videos. lol
      Was determined to after this last video release, but then got Covid. Still have some symptoms after two weeks.

  • @supplyingcustom
    @supplyingcustom 10 месяцев назад

    Mi VORON no imprime Bien ABS imprime las piezas de una tamaño menor del que se le pide y no he logrado ubicar cuál es su problema, en PLA Y PETG imprime bn sin problema Pero ABS NO SE PUEDE las piezas no salen bnn

  • @OlegMalykin
    @OlegMalykin Год назад

    I love you, bro!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you!!!!!

  • @HReality
    @HReality 2 года назад

    Im curious in what method you would use to adjust speeds in your filament/superslicer profile. I have screwed up all kinds of ways trying to iron that out. First cube was decent.. onceI started tweaking it went to hell fast and when I wipe and start over its still trash. Ive seen Andrews tuning guide but it reads like stereo instructions and looses me. Guess Im one who has to see it to wrap my head around it

    • @scottcorn
      @scottcorn  2 года назад

      To be honest, I've not changed from Doc's default settings for Super Slicer yet. It has been printing really well with them.
      github.com/VoronDesign/Voron-2/tree/Voron2.4/slicer_profiles/PrusaSlicer
      The only real tuning I've done so far is first layer height and bed mesh.
      I'm just finishing up the skirts etc. video. Once that is done the next video will input shaper and pressure advance. I don't figure I'll really mess with the speeds much though.

  • @PoiTEE
    @PoiTEE 2 года назад

    great video scorn!

    • @scottcorn
      @scottcorn  2 года назад

      Thank you again. Lol

  • @wernerhiemer406
    @wernerhiemer406 Год назад

    What gibberish at 2:30 is meant to be some sort of "english"? I see measuring for that step preperation, but thats all. Or only to get the difference before QGL?

    • @scottcorn
      @scottcorn  Год назад

      The back of the gantry sags a lot at this point in the build. If it is too much lower in the back the QGL will fail. Depending on how far off the gantry is side to side or front to back you can also crash the nozzle into the bed.

    • @wernerhiemer406
      @wernerhiemer406 Год назад

      @@scottcorn Ok mine was about 5 mm off at max and had three runs.

  • @richardchilds54
    @richardchilds54 Год назад

    Thanks!

  • @madeintownsville
    @madeintownsville Год назад

    Hi Scott, I am trying to pass the QGL test but got this error Probe samples exceed samples_tolerance. Can you advise me what I should do to check before doing the qgl?

    • @scottcorn
      @scottcorn  Год назад +1

      This usually happens when the gantry is too unlevel from on side (front, sides or back) to each other. A screw is loose on one or more of the Z motor/belt assemblies can also cause it.
      Make sure everything is properly tight and the belt tensions are about equal.
      If that doesn't help try changing samples_tolerance under the [probe] section in printer.cfg to a larger number. Say 0.0.1 and try the QGL. If that works put it back to what it was (mine is 0.006) and see if it works after the first larger one.

    • @madeintownsville
      @madeintownsville Год назад +1

      @@scottcorn thank Scott, z0 gt2 gear was loose and gantry was not level properly so tightened the screw and used square ruler to level all four point. Homed and try QGL and passed the QGL process. Thank you.

    • @scottcorn
      @scottcorn  Год назад

      Glad that it worked out.

  • @pooyahesabi
    @pooyahesabi 2 года назад

    Appreciated man thanks a lot

  • @vprasanth4417
    @vprasanth4417 Год назад

    hi , i have a one issue did everything as you show like this , but when i start the print hotend is hitting in the bed , why ?

    • @scottcorn
      @scottcorn  Год назад

      Find position_endstop = in your printer.cfg and let me know what it is please. Make sure this isn't in the cfg file also.

  • @GD-ur4tr
    @GD-ur4tr 2 года назад

    Hi, I am also building a Voron 2.4. I have a little question about the raspberry pi 4, do the wifi is set to the router or to the computer? Thank you,

    • @scottcorn
      @scottcorn  2 года назад

      If you use the Raspberry Pi installer I show in the video the wifi is set up during the install for you. You can connect a ethernet cable to the Pi and it will use DHCP to automatically get a IP address. If you didn't set up the wifi during the install connecting the ethernet cable is easiest in my opinion. You can get the IP from your router, but how you do this is different on each router. It is just best to setup the wifi during the install as I know not everyone has ethernet connections where they have the printer. I'm an old software engineer, I have connections everywhere. lol

    • @GD-ur4tr
      @GD-ur4tr 2 года назад

      @@scottcorn Thank you for your quick response, I am a retired CNC machinist. What I wonder these in the Wifi configuration, is it the password of my router that I give or these new passwords that I create? Do raspberry pi communicate by wifi directly with my computer by wifi or it goes through my router? At the same time congratulations for your good tutorial. Soory for my English, it is not my native.

    • @scottcorn
      @scottcorn  2 года назад

      No problem. Your english is good. The Pi communicates directly with the wifi. You would need to enter the wifi password. It wouldn't be the password that was created to get into the Pi. The password for the Wifi is set on the wifi router so if that is the router password you are talking about it would be that one.

    • @GD-ur4tr
      @GD-ur4tr 2 года назад

      @@scottcorn So the Pi communicate with the router and the router send the communication to my computer by Wifi, is that right? Now could I skip the router, so that the Pi communicate directly to the computer Wifi, like my paper printer do? My computer is at 10 feets from the 3D printer and the router is 2 rooms away maybe 25 feets.

    • @scottcorn
      @scottcorn  2 года назад

      @@GD-ur4tr I think it can if you directly connect by USB. I've not done that with Klipper yet. My old printers (not Klipper) did this. I would just connect your computer with a USB to the Pi and see if SuperSlicer can see it.

  • @madeintownsville
    @madeintownsville Год назад

    Hi again, when I test the motor using retract and extrude the motor got hotter and when on stand by the motor's temp remain hot. Is there something I need to look into or it is normal to get hot?

    • @madeintownsville
      @madeintownsville Год назад

      Should i adjust the voltage for extruder motor to reduce heat?

    • @scottcorn
      @scottcorn  Год назад

      Yes, you can drop the voltage a bit at a time making sure each time that it has the power to do it’s job.

    • @madeintownsville
      @madeintownsville Год назад

      @@scottcorn Thank for the suggestion. I am trying to pass the z_endstop_calibrate and made it to 2mm height and tried the -0.1 and the z motors goes up and down instead down. What possible cause this ?

    • @scottcorn
      @scottcorn  Год назад

      Sorry, had an overly busy day. Are you saying the Z motors are going the wrong way?

    • @madeintownsville
      @madeintownsville Год назад

      @@scottcorn it going the right way, when I reach to 2mm above the bed and try to go down further, it refuse to do so

  • @eclypse3d
    @eclypse3d 2 года назад

    That is incorrect you should be using the hotend, heated when you do your e-steps, your logic on it affecting the results is correct in the sense that the heat, and pressure afftects Flow rates. Which also affects e-steps by a margin. Back pressure from the hotend will change the extruder rate. So checking the extruder for 100mm without the hotend on and at temperature will give you one value. Taking the hotend off will give you another value as you are just giving the extruder free movement. So by your logic, taking it off then running it and putting it back on will actually change the values a hair. You should be checking your e-steps with everything assembled in working order. Mind you it would be basically be like saying take your bed off an ender three before you run input shaper and put the sensor on the bed mount instead. Afterward put the bed back on. You would not do that.

  • @JonZis2023
    @JonZis2023 2 года назад

    THANKS !!!! 10/10

  • @wernerhiemer406
    @wernerhiemer406 Год назад

    Again me: A regular piece of paper is not a thing. The gramatur is in question.