As a 30+ year airline pilot I always hate whenever tower clears any kind of traffic through the approach corridor. We can NEVER see them. Especially at night, their lights blend in with the lights on the ground. Let's pass a new rule - no more clearing ANY traffic through the approach corridor !!!!!!!
Agree, seems like common sense. I get the tight airspace there makes it a challenge, but traffic through the approach corridor, especially at or near the same altitude? That just seems crazy to me.
Congress demands to keep this outdated airport so they don’t have to be driven as far as to the capital. They also demand that they be flown around the same airport by the “gold top” service, which is what this heli was a part of. Now they demand even more traffic gridlock in DC which will only exacerbate the problems. 🤦
Exactly. Never trust any “investigators” or “experts” who jump into conclusions just hours after an accident. No one has the answers yet. It’s a long and painful process to gather and release all the details. It’s a shame nowadays no one understands that.
Guess they will have to close the air port then? I mean since Fort Belvoir in Virginia has been there since 1915 and running flight training out of there decades before the air port was even thought of.
@@Zappy1210 flight paths are planned and tracked it's not at all unreasonable to say that a MILITARY helicopter shouldn't be cleared for a flight if they expect they'll be flying close to a flight path where a plane is expected to be flying at a similar time. Like I feel that there had to have been multiple insanely dumbfounding mistakes in the chain of command here for this to happen
@@Zappy1210 Helicopters fault. He said he saw the plane, but it is likely he saw the plane behind the RTJ. Lights in the background. The ATC asked repeatedly if he had the RTJ in sight and he confirmed that he did.
I always have respect for a professional pilot who simply admits "we don't know" instead of immediately suspecting blame on either pilot or the controllers.
It’s also not usually as simple as one person is to blame. It’s often a chain of circumstances that result in an accident. In an accident like this there is opportunity for ATC, Pilots and Aircraft manufacturers to learn and improve.
You have to know a little bit to know that he already has us figured out. The Blackhawk Pilot lost visual separation. Why? The Blackhawk pilot requested it and ATC gave it to them. The rules need to be changed because it was impossible i'm sure they were blinded by the landing lights of the jet and couldn't see their nav lights. Not a smart place to be flying visually at night.
@@jameylane9944 We do have to wait for the investigation to be allowed to carry on with its due diligence.....I will say though, it sounds like the ACC alerted the chopper of aircrafts in the area, it's possible that the chopper pilot saw the aircraft that was taking off( there is a clear visual of another plane taking off just seconds before )but lost visual of the incoming flight 5342. But....we don't know yet for sure. As the investigation carries through, we're sure to hear more details of what happened.
Sully most certainly knows what happened but he was very diplomatic in his answers for very good reasons. He thought every question over at least 10 times before answering giving away nothing. A very experienced and wise man.
@@SusieQZee because he doesn't want to bias anyone or tarnish any investigations until the truth is found. It's called being a consummate professional.
It could have all been very deliberate -- that heli had to make extraordinarily aggressive maneuvers to catch up to & hit the plane. Looks like a real ATTACK!!!
It was a preventable accident. There’s no reason that helicopter with both viability and maneuverability couldn’t get out of dodge, but the problem is at night it’s really hard to see with the naked eye which is why reliance on ATC. Let’s not forget this last week Donald Trump fired the heads of the TSA and coast guard, while closing the aviation security advisory committee.
Captain Chesley Burnett Sullenberger, III : Thank you for your calm presence and expertise both on 01/15/2009 when 155 people on your airliner were able to arrive safely to their destinations that day (and a bit afterward, for those who had slight injuries) and for your reassurance and composure now while answering questions that we all are asking in this unfortunate disaster and these multiple, precious lives lost late last night in the frigid waters of The District. (Not surprisingly, you were the first person who came to mind early this morning upon hearing of this accident here on the East Coast - we will never forget you.)
@karenlong5622 ~ Thank you for such an articulate, beautiful & thoughtful comment for Captain Sullenberger; however, sadly under such heartbreaking circumstances ... ❤️🩹
Utmost respect for Sully! He is calm, a great communicator, wise and intelligent. Always enjoy hearing his take on the airline industry. Sad situation here for sure.
As a German Air Traffic Controller hearing that apparently it was even a possibility for the Controller to relieve himself of the obligation to provide separation is mind boggling. Given the time of day, kind of approach and all other factors my understanding of German ATC safety tells me that this procedure needs a serious overhaul.
I'm not an ATC and I wouldn't have assume for one instance or trust other aircraft to make a decision that is suppose to be my job; i would have immediately tell the chopper to change course. In my eye the ATC is to blame here.
@@Imhavinganervousbreakdown im pretty sure he was the one who landed a plane on a river and made sure everyone survived, but sure, he knows nothing about flying planes.
Why are military aircraft / helicopters allowed anywhere near a major commercial airport? It's sheer lunacy to think this would not happen. And then to use the area AT NIGHT as a military training ground to boot, is pure insanity.
LAX has a ton of helos flying by. But they have to have a lot of separation. Planes take off heading over the ocean. They cross the beach at about 1500ft and climbing. Helos request to cross the airport. ATC tells them “clear to cross at or below 500ft”
“How can this happen?” - we haven’t had a fatal commercial airliner crash in the US in 12 years. The question is how have we been able to maintain such an unbelievably amazing safety record given the volume?
The last mid air collision in the US involving a commercial airliner was the Aeromexico crash over Cerritos in 1986. I thought matter collisions were a thing of the past, so this whole thing has been quite unnerving.
Well spoken, professional as always - and not presumptuous. Just sharing what he sees and could tell by this situation at this time. This is so tragic. Appreciated hearing from Sully. 🙏🏼 Prayers for the families, friends, and loved ones.
Military aircraft of all kinds regularly fly into and out of public commercial airports, using the FBOs there. But its dumb to clear them to fly through approach and departure corridors of active runways, especially at night, and when I am sure they could have taken some other direction....maybe not as direct, but a while lot safer.
@@_Ben4810 Yet, they (or their commanding officers) didn't know to stay well clear of the approach corridor of the busiest airport in the country AT NIGHT? This seems like gross negligence by the military and an accident like this was inevitable.
30 years ago I was a passenger on a United flight into National and the pilot aborted the landing twice due to what he said was hazardous movement of planes on the ground. It was too risky to land with those other planes moving in so close to our landing space. We were glad to land eventually, of course, and were glad about the concern for our safety.
DCA was obsolete 50 years ago. Sully's diplomatic way of saying that was that it's a "legacy airport". But every politician in Washington wants it to stay open. "Dulles? Out there in the sticks? You expect me to take a taxi in from there? It'll take me an hour".
@@mikeprevost8650 Yeah. When airport security got tight and people had TSA horror stories, someone I knew in DC advised me to always use Reagan and not Dulles. He said because of all the big shots using it they had a better class of TSA employees.
Retired teacher here! I still remember the crash of Air Florida.! That was a during a snowstorm. The plane had been de- iced but sitting on the runway too long when it took off . Short runway, ice on wings decreases lift! That jet crashed into the Potomac River, too!
Front EPR tube had icing causing EPR gauge to read higher than it actually was though I would have felt that the throttle wasn't "as far forward as it usually was".
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@@badfairy9554I once seen a commercial airline mechanic say the things he has seen would make you sick if you knew about it. And also that he wouldn’t fly, but does all he can do to be the best he can be at his job.
I live in the DC area and I am always amazed at the sheer numbers of different aircraft always flying around..its actually ridiculous....this was an accident waiting to happen.
Used to fly below the windows of the USA today building on final. It's also why many people on 911 didn't feel it unusual to see planes low near the pentagon.
@@MikeJones-wc4qjBooga booga! Conspiracy! I’m so sure the government couldn’t come up with something a little better than sending military personelle on a suicide mission. Pretty sure the service members would have just maybe refused to do so. This isn’t quite Imperial Japan or modern-day North Korea. Willing to wager I could guess who you voted for.
Exactly. And, right in the glide path of a commercial aircraft during its landing. Possibly the helo pilot had the wrong aircraft in sight or got confused. Tragic
I think the helicopter didn't see the plane. He was probably looking at the wrong one. Planes are not that easy to see from the side at night, especially with all the lights of the city and everything.
Yup....that's where the evidence points....chopper pilot reported he "has the traffic" to ATC, but obviously was looking at a different plane, not the one he collided with.
Simple. The HELO pilot was "looking" at the ***wrong*** plane. No anti-collision systems on military aircraft and they are allowed to cross landing corridors. Sickening.
@@swerne01 TACS I presume is built with automatic mutual avoidance guidance in order to take away decision both planes avoiding each other in the same direction and crashing, and yes, one would not want it to drive a plane into the ground at low altitudes. However for low altitudes, an alarm should be raised to both pilots that would automatically enable a dedicated emergency voice channel between the two so the mutual avoidance can be done in collaboration. Both military and civilian aircraft could benefit from such a system.
Said the same thing from teh clip I saw....asking do you see the plane, is STUPID in a sea of planes...controller and helicopter pilot error, sadly...of course unlike our president we will wait for analysis and results.
I had a friend who was a bomber pilot in the Second World War . Completed three operational tours . Started on Wellington’s and finished on Lancasters . A man like Scully a consummate professional pilot . These men have an understanding of the process of flying an aircraft that covers details we don’t even know existed. Every aspect of air transport. Commercial pilots have a very had job today because of what is being taken from their control . I know Captain (Retired) Sullenburg is a believer in ensuring that pilot of the aircraft does not have to much control and decision making taken out of the cockpit. He is likely very aware of the layers of failure that caused this accident, but would never speculate.
Unbelievable safety record. Accidents do happen every day on the roadways. It is astonishing that the safety record is next to perfect with all the traffic in the sky.
Careful. I’m sorry but I know of too many pilots who have died in plane crashes in recent years. Most painful was my dad whose accident is still unresolved 5 years later due to just shear incompetence and lack of responsibility. There’s always crashes. Most of the time it just doesn’t make the news.
It was 100% the fault of the helicopter pilot, he radioed he had the plane in sight, and was given the clearance to proceed behind the aircraft…could be the helicopter pilot mistook an aircraft that was taking off to be the aircraft he collided with.
seems the most logical answer. It was the System that caused this tragedy. "We have done it this way for years" we will hear. All those lights, at night, a dynamic situation, intense concentration...pure bad luck. Three seconds either way, the jet would have landed.
Having flown this approach 100's of time. It's insane for the FAA to allow a circling approach to 33 at night. There are tons of lights on the ground and the turn onto final is tight. Your concentration is on the turn and the line up of the runway. It's easy to see why the two aircraft never saw each other.
from my aviation experience I would go as far as to say it is criminal that airforce traffic could be allowed to pass at such a critical time in the approach
@@ecomandurban7183That’s all I keep thinking about. Why the hell was a military helicopter even on a flight path that close to the inbound flight path of a civilian airport? Out here in SD you would almost never see military aircraft, especially helicopters that close to SD airport.. they stuck to Miramar and Coronado.
From the graphic representations I've seen, it appears that the jets belly would have been facing the helicopter for most of the turn. I wonder if the jet crew ever saw the helicopter at all.
I luv hearing Sully speak about anything aviation related. A true professional! 👍 Condolences to the family & friends of the victims of this awful tragedy.
@@UnlicensedOkie And why would the military be doing helicopter training flights in this area and at night? As Sully said, to land at the airport takes special training. I know military base is nearby, but as I said helicopter training flights in this area and at night sounds a recipe for an accident. Sad.
@@rabbit251 unfortunately its the nature of the game. If things ever went wrong these pilots would need to fly in difficult and dangerous circumstances. You dont want the first time they do that to be in a time of emergency. You want them ready to go and used to operating in dangerous, high pressure environments. Accidents happen and rules are written in blood unfortunately
Two scenarios are the probable cause - the helicopter intentionally crashed into the plane, or the helicopter mistakenly had the wrong plane in sight when prompted by ATC
Needlessly. A military training mission. What a load of b.s. There was an ice skating team full of kids, all dead for what? So a big bully General at the local military base can run a training mission. Stinks!
Going to disagree with you on this one sully, the holes in the Swiss cheese have to line up for things to go bad, not everything has to be perfect for things to go right. A lot of mistakes were made for this to happen.
It is shocking and a terrible incident. We lost 67 lives. That said, on average 120 people PER DAY die in car crashes. It’s sort of on the scale of the line attributed to Stalin. “One person’s death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic.” We don’t get nearly as freaked out about car collisions (unless we see one or are in one). Car deaths are the statistic.
Tell that to the U.S in Iraq and Vietnam and other civilians they killed not to mention almost every other country in time has done the same. Stalin was just 1. Also people do get scared of crashing a car and also when a plane goes down it's usually mass casualty for bigger airlines. When you have no control of the plan and falling from the sky I would say that's alot scarier than a car crash.
Tragic 😢. Sully sounded like a true ambassador. What worries me is that why doesn’t a state of the art military aircraft have a collision detection system? Even a cheap car beeps when you are reversing and about to hit the garage wall, or when you even barely swears off the highway lane! Hope we learn from this and fix what went wrong without waiting 2 years for the final report.
Too much air traffic at this small DC airport, commercial, military and other craft constantly getting out of each other's way while staying clear of the nearby Pentagon. It's just too much air traffic at one time in a tight geographic space.
Because they only spoke to someone with experience in commercial aviation crashes. This crash reeks of a military suicide mission; the CRJ was given right of way before the copter, and the helicopter was asked to acknowledge that the plane was ahead of them. If holding patterns were being correctly followed, the helicopter should have waited.
I don't believe it was either of the pilots faults in either the plane or the black hawk. This is the tower and ATC fault and likely their policies or instrumentation. It makes me sick people blaming pilots of either craft at this point because they have no clue. FAA are more apt to be to blame for this just look up the near misses in the air that have taken place. The skies are not safe to fly until they get this fixed. Period.
@@Imhavinganervousbreakdown No, tower told the helicopter to pass BEHIND the CRJ. The crew acknowledged. CRJ is stable on final, from a circle to land. Tower isn't at fault, helicopter has to maintain visual separation, as instructed, and as they affirmed. But they didn't. Did they think the departing airplane, was the one being called out? Maybe. Lights everywhere, close to the ground, probably true...But Tower, as we speak now, isn't at fault for this. And the CRJ has the right of way in this scenario, it's the helicopter who must move for the CRJ. SA will be reviewed in all aspects. Very congested airspace, with Civ and Mil flights everywhere. UHF and VHF, discreet codes, no RA below 1000ft...It'll all be reviewed. But unfortunately, in aviation, new rules/laws only get made in blood. There rarely is a proactive approach to aviation safety.
You’re not hearing the actual VHF communications-you’re hearing an internet stream of a hobbyist’s home-built receiver that is trying to intercept a signal with very little line of sight and oftentimes poor reception. Rarely if ever is air/ground VHF difficult to understand. As a pilot, the more prominent communications issue I see here is the heli being on a UHF frequency with the CRJ on a VHF frequency. Yes, ATC was simulcasting to both, but when visual separation is guaranteed by only a few hundred feet assuming it all goes right (which it didn’t), both aircraft should be able to hear each other as they maneuver with tight separation.
Hahahahahahahaha. You should hear how bad sat comm is vs vhf not to metion how slow it is. VHF doesnt sound like this when you have a headset on and working the actual traffic.
There should be a designated corridor at sufficient altitude to keep crossing traffic clear, and it shouldn't be located less than a mile from active runways. For many years there were corridors in the NY TCA for transponder equipped VFR traffic to cross approaching airline or other IFR traffic.
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Newbies? How many hours did the crew of the Blackhawk have? To my knowledge their experience level is not currently public information, but please do prove me uninformed.
Define newbies. I have no idea where they were in their training, but I would assume this flight path would have to be well into the program. We'll see.
Sully is the Godfather of Aviation in my opinion. When he speaks, I tune everything out and lunge for the remote to turn up the volume. "Not now Dear, it's Sully.... pipe down kids!"
This dissaster was bound to happen at some point. RIP to the victims. If nothing changes with this busy traffic airspace, accidents will continue to happen in the future.
They swiftly labeled it as a 'training flight' for that military aircraft. That was kinda fast. ATC was loud and clear, asking if that military aircraft had sighted the plane, and the reply was a firm 'affirmative.' So how in the world did they keep going in the same direction after confirming visual contact? Makes you wonder. Need to know the reason for that last minute change of from runway 1 to 33. Plane altitude was 400f when this happened. There is a need of some serious investigation.
You left out that the AA flight had an abrupt altitude drop. This may have caused the collision. I am not sure if people get the miracle of air flight. There is so much traffic in the skies. Maybe too much around that airport for sure.
@ Pul5: A circling to land approach- meaning circling to land from runway 33 to runway 1 happens hundreds of times a day at many airports throughout the USA.
Yes it was only the tower's responsibility to maintain positive separation for IFR traffic (American) and the VFR helicopter, up until the point he accepted the instruciton to maintain visual separation and pass behind the CRJ. Also, while advisable to follow the recommended altitudes on the VFR helicopter route chart, I think those altitudes are voluntary and don't carry the same enforcement as a clearance to maintain an altitude. The primary separation here was supposed to be horizontal, and enforced by visual separation.
the airliner was NOT at fault at all. The heli should have diverted away from the landing path. 100% avoidable. Quesytion is: why did the ATC and/or the heli not divert away. The ATC only told the heli to go behind the CRJ. Should have demanded the heli divert away, PERIOD.
Although I appreciate the intent of what the President is saying, it is known we have not had an aviation crash in 15 years. The helicopter had to have seen out of the windshield the plane. They do not have early warning on these copters, put the visual was there regardless of the fact it was a training mission...
Also, controllers are overworked and exhausted nationwide.. NATCA has been alerting about nationwide understaffing since Reagan fired controllers in the 1980s.
I think it just shows what they do is dangerous and takes work and practice and its amazing most flights are safe. Prayers to those who have lost loved ones.
No pilot in his right mind, unless he is committing suicide, sees the other aircraft, takes no avoiding action and flies straight into it. The Blackhawk pilot probably mistook a different plane for the CRJ and the ATC, who are too busy, did not advise the Blackhawk to turn left with heading, when they saw that they were on a collision course.
This an absolute failure of the ATC. Two planes on a head on collision course dangerously close at night in a very busy approach and it's up to the pilots to avoid each other? That's insane! The airline pilots are focused on their approach, the ATC should have delayed the helicopter or diverted it away from the approach, especially since it was only passing through the area.
How much you wanna bet the helicopter pilots are at fault but they will still be hailed as heroes even though they killed over 60 people. They should’ve have never been wearing their night vision near the airport, let alone crossing inbound flight path in such close proximity. I sincerely believe the helicopter pilots were flying around like they own the sky.
It’s a failure of communication. Military helicopter pilots did not contact the air traffic controller. Either this is not being taught in the military or they went rogue.
It is becoming a systemic problem, accidents waiting to happen any time you get in/on a plane. Overcrowded air traffic system (ground and air), outdated ATC infrastructure, jam packed ground and sky of aircraft. It is time hit the reset button and ground about 25% - 35% of the aircraft currently operating in the USA plus update the ATC infrastructure. You cannot keep packing more airplanes in a confined space and expect to not have frequent collisions. Based on today’s operating environment tragedies like this should not be a surprise. Thank you for your superb reporting.
I’m heartbroken. Expect to see more of the same with the implementation of DOGE…the gutting of critical FAA infrastructure, NTSB, and key aviation training programs.
As a 30+ year airline pilot I always hate whenever tower clears any kind of traffic through the approach corridor. We can NEVER see them. Especially at night, their lights blend in with the lights on the ground. Let's pass a new rule - no more clearing ANY traffic through the approach corridor !!!!!!!
But then the VIPs would have longer helicopter rides to their meetings with the other muckity mucks
Agree, seems like common sense. I get the tight airspace there makes it a challenge, but traffic through the approach corridor, especially at or near the same altitude? That just seems crazy to me.
@@savagecub interesting perspective, thank you for sharing.
@@savagecub what I find interesting, they just happened to collide over water and not a neighborhood or football stadium, or something.
Congress demands to keep this outdated airport so they don’t have to be driven as far as to the capital. They also demand that they be flown around the same airport by the “gold top” service, which is what this heli was a part of. Now they demand even more traffic gridlock in DC which will only exacerbate the problems. 🤦
That Capt. Sullenberger answered 'What happened?' with "We don't know yet..." shows his commitment to an unbiased investigation process. Kudos!
Love this guy!
Exactly. Never trust any “investigators” or “experts” who jump into conclusions just hours after an accident. No one has the answers yet. It’s a long and painful process to gather and release all the details. It’s a shame nowadays no one understands that.
@@landisfeaston Including the dude working in the Oval Office, mere hours after the crash.
It was a courtesy he didnt get when they tried to drag him through the mud! The man is a professional in every sense of the word.
The black box will have all answers, patience at this point
If flying a military helicopter across the flight of a commercial flight in its landing path is "standard " then I think it's time for a change.
Guess they will have to close the air port then? I mean since Fort Belvoir in Virginia has been there since 1915 and running flight training out of there decades before the air port was even thought of.
@@Zappy1210 flight paths are planned and tracked it's not at all unreasonable to say that a MILITARY helicopter shouldn't be cleared for a flight if they expect they'll be flying close to a flight path where a plane is expected to be flying at a similar time. Like I feel that there had to have been multiple insanely dumbfounding mistakes in the chain of command here for this to happen
@@luckyducky5994 Take a listen to the actual ATC radio chatter. It's pretty clear this was ATC's fault.
@@Zappy1210 Helicopters fault. He said he saw the plane, but it is likely he saw the plane behind the RTJ. Lights in the background. The ATC asked repeatedly if he had the RTJ in sight and he confirmed that he did.
@@rustymaximus9179So you mean the Blackhawk helicopter saw the other plane instead of the RTJ. How is it possible? I thought only RTJ.
I always have respect for a professional pilot who simply admits "we don't know" instead of immediately suspecting blame on either pilot or the controllers.
Fearless Leader has ascertained that Biden is to blame, so everyone involved can sleep peacefully now.
It’s also not usually as simple as one person is to blame.
It’s often a chain of circumstances that result in an accident.
In an accident like this there is opportunity for ATC, Pilots and Aircraft manufacturers to learn and improve.
You have to know a little bit to know that he already has us figured out. The Blackhawk Pilot lost visual separation. Why? The Blackhawk pilot requested it and ATC gave it to them. The rules need to be changed because it was impossible i'm sure they were blinded by the landing lights of the jet and couldn't see their nav lights. Not a smart place to be flying visually at night.
@@jameylane9944 We do have to wait for the investigation to be allowed to carry on with its due diligence.....I will say though, it sounds like the ACC alerted the chopper of aircrafts in the area, it's possible that the chopper pilot saw the aircraft that was taking off( there is a clear visual of another plane taking off just seconds before )but lost visual of the incoming flight 5342. But....we don't know yet for sure. As the investigation carries through, we're sure to hear more details of what happened.
Sully’s voice of reason is comforting. Thank you for soliciting his input, asking the important questions, listening and broadcasting.
Sully most certainly knows what happened but he was very diplomatic in his answers for very good reasons. He thought every question over at least 10 times before answering giving away nothing. A very experienced and wise man.
If he is certain as to what has happened, why wouldn’t he say it?
@@SusieQZeeBoeing whistleblowers don’t usually live that long
@@Wood1117Exactly!!!😂😂😂100% agree!!!
@@Wood1117Dude this happened yesterday he doesn’t know what exactly happened. Don’t be a dumbo.
@@SusieQZee because he doesn't want to bias anyone or tarnish any investigations until the truth is found. It's called being a consummate professional.
This is a horrific accident. I just don’t understand how a military helicopter was allowed in the flight path of a commercial flight.
It could have all been very deliberate -- that heli had to make extraordinarily aggressive maneuvers to catch up to & hit the plane. Looks like a real ATTACK!!!
@@maryn8139no.. I don’t think it was purposeful. I think it was just a horrible accident.
@@maryn8139Definitely not. That would imply that the pilot was willing to kamikaze the helicopter into the plane.
Get this conspiracy horseshit outta here. Not helping anyone. @@maryn8139
It was a preventable accident.
There’s no reason that helicopter with both viability and maneuverability couldn’t get out of dodge, but the problem is at night it’s really hard to see with the naked eye which is why reliance on ATC.
Let’s not forget this last week Donald Trump fired the heads of the TSA and coast guard, while closing the aviation security advisory committee.
Blessings for the souls of those who died in this plane accident and for their families.
Was that you George? you still kept your job after what you did to the company
Sully is the most competent man alive. Incredible
Captain Chesley Burnett Sullenberger, III : Thank you for your calm presence and expertise both on 01/15/2009 when 155 people on your airliner were able to arrive safely to their destinations that day (and a bit afterward, for those who had slight injuries) and for your reassurance and composure now while answering questions that we all are asking in this unfortunate disaster and these multiple, precious lives lost late last night in the frigid waters of The District. (Not surprisingly, you were the first person who came to mind early this morning upon hearing of this accident here on the East Coast - we will never forget you.)
@karenlong5622 ~ Thank you for such an articulate, beautiful & thoughtful comment for Captain Sullenberger; however, sadly under such heartbreaking circumstances ... ❤️🩹
Yep god bless
Utmost respect for Sully! He is calm, a great communicator, wise and intelligent. Always enjoy hearing his take on the airline industry. Sad situation here for sure.
He certainly is much more articulate and reasoned in his remarks than was #47.
As a German Air Traffic Controller hearing that apparently it was even a possibility for the Controller to relieve himself of the obligation to provide separation is mind boggling.
Given the time of day, kind of approach and all other factors my understanding of German ATC safety tells me that this procedure needs a serious overhaul.
This American is in full agreement with you.
the helicopter was flying too high.
🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
😢😢, Why take military training flights at busy civil airports?
I'm not an ATC and I wouldn't have assume for one instance or trust other aircraft to make a decision that is suppose to be my job; i would have immediately tell the chopper to change course. In my eye the ATC is to blame here.
Sully, always methodical and using the best judgment, even when providing commentary on such devasting events. A real hero.
he doesn't know what he's talking about.
@@Imhavinganervousbreakdown im pretty sure he was the one who landed a plane on a river and made sure everyone survived, but sure, he knows nothing about flying planes.
@ I don't care what he landed. He's protecting the FAA. You mark my words this was not pilot error. It is FAA issues.
@@Imhavinganervousbreakdownwe know, you could do better. 😒
@@Imhavinganervousbreakdown Ok clown
I’m so sorry, my sincere condolences to all the families.
Big shouts out to Capt. Sully. Glad to see this brother is still alive and well.
This just makes his miracle on the Hudson that much more special. It’s not easy to do what he did that day with such little time .
Yep, that darn helicopter messed everything up, the plane was doing it's thing.
His plane hit a bird. That's a lot different than being hit by a helicopter.
@@jlakatos524 The point of his comment was completely lost on you, wasn’t it? 🙄
Agreed. It really is miraculous, that with as many aircraft being in airspace at any given time, that this horrors don’t occur more frequently.
@@JollyDeacs11 Yep, that ignorant comment just disrespected the family members of those in the helicopter who perished. Congratulations.
Why are military aircraft / helicopters allowed anywhere near a major commercial airport? It's sheer lunacy to think this would not happen. And then to use the area AT NIGHT as a military training ground to boot, is pure insanity.
Just guessing, but bigwigs fly to that airport and take helicopters to get to and fro ASAP? 🤷
LAX has a ton of helos flying by. But they have to have a lot of separation. Planes take off heading over the ocean. They cross the beach at about 1500ft and climbing. Helos request to cross the airport. ATC tells them “clear to cross at or below 500ft”
@ probably
“How can this happen?” - we haven’t had a fatal commercial airliner crash in the US in 12 years. The question is how have we been able to maintain such an unbelievably amazing safety record given the volume?
The helicopter was given warning to move. Why didn't they?
The last mid air collision in the US involving a commercial airliner was the Aeromexico crash over Cerritos in 1986. I thought matter collisions were a thing of the past, so this whole thing has been quite unnerving.
Human error?
Hubris is not how we move forward to prevent future tragedies.
All this said, WHY was military training taking place right there?!
Well spoken, professional as always - and not presumptuous. Just sharing what he sees and could tell by this situation at this time. This is so tragic. Appreciated hearing from Sully. 🙏🏼 Prayers for the families, friends, and loved ones.
Sullenburger is one of the chillest and calm people out there.
Why are military helicopters flying around in the landing pattern at a commercial airport! That’s crazy.
Military aircraft of all kinds regularly fly into and out of public commercial airports, using the FBOs there. But its dumb to clear them to fly through approach and departure corridors of active runways, especially at night, and when I am sure they could have taken some other direction....maybe not as direct, but a while lot safer.
Great question! Cleared through approach corridor!???? WtF?
Washington DC...a busy military enclave that has many active squadrons of helicopters based there...
@@_Ben4810 Yet, they (or their commanding officers) didn't know to stay well clear of the approach corridor of the busiest airport in the country AT NIGHT? This seems like gross negligence by the military and an accident like this was inevitable.
its a common pratice in usa and it appers that they were on a routine night flight training
Flying is a miracle, we do not honor pilots and co pilots for their dedication and courage.
And the ATC
agreed
30 years ago I was a passenger on a United flight into National and the pilot aborted the landing twice due to what he said was hazardous movement of planes on the ground. It was too risky to land with those other planes moving in so close to our landing space. We were glad to land eventually, of course, and were glad about the concern for our safety.
DCA was obsolete 50 years ago. Sully's diplomatic way of saying that was that it's a "legacy airport". But every politician in Washington wants it to stay open. "Dulles? Out there in the sticks? You expect me to take a taxi in from there? It'll take me an hour".
100%
@@mikeprevost8650 Yeah. When airport security got tight and people had TSA horror stories, someone I knew in DC advised me to always use Reagan and not Dulles. He said because of all the big shots using it they had a better class of TSA employees.
Retired teacher here! I still remember the crash of Air Florida.! That was a during a snowstorm. The plane had been de- iced but sitting on the runway too long when it took off . Short runway, ice on wings decreases lift! That jet crashed into the Potomac River, too!
Front EPR tube had icing causing EPR gauge to read higher than it actually was though I would have felt that the throttle wasn't "as far forward as it usually was".
Very reassuring indeed. He has that special quality.
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It was Air Traffic Control not either of the pilots at fault. Both were on proper trajectory and ATC called the chopper back down too late.
@@Imhavinganervousbreakdown This is totally on ATC. 100 💯
His baritone voice, chill demeanor and infinite knowledge of planes makes him, "The Godfather of Aviation."
Too bad the FAA failed to act on a litany of near misses over many yrs. Nothing gets things done like tragedy.
Every flight is a roll of the dice. You can reduce the risks but never eliminate them.
Exactly! Hence my fear of flying! No matter how many statistics they throw at me.
no it is not.
@@badfairy9554I once seen a commercial airline mechanic say the things he has seen would make you sick if you knew about it. And also that he wouldn’t fly, but does all he can do to be the best he can be at his job.
Sully is sharp as a whip
I live in the DC area and I am always amazed at the sheer numbers of different aircraft always flying around..its actually ridiculous....this was an accident waiting to happen.
That airport looks small and in a dangerous area, it should be another bigger airport built in the city in a safer spot
Interesting perspective; sounds like it was inevitable. Prayers for your community in healing. 🙏
Used to fly below the windows of the USA today building on final. It's also why many people on 911 didn't feel it unusual to see planes low near the pentagon.
@@carolinasmith2297 There is. It is called Dulles
@@carolinasmith2297 In DC? Forget it. We have BWI, Dulles and Reagan. Every politican in DC uses Reagan.
Military bases should NOT be in such close proximity to an airport!! such a horrible decision
I just don’t understand why there would be a helicopter flying around near a short final of an active airport?
Intentional.
There is a helicopter base across the river from DCA
@@MikeJones-wc4qjBooga booga! Conspiracy! I’m so sure the government couldn’t come up with something a little better than sending military personelle on a suicide mission. Pretty sure the service members would have just maybe refused to do so. This isn’t quite Imperial Japan or modern-day North Korea. Willing to wager I could guess who you voted for.
Exactly. And, right in the glide path of a commercial aircraft during its landing. Possibly the helo pilot had the wrong aircraft in sight or got confused. Tragic
I think the helicopter didn't see the plane. He was probably looking at the wrong one. Planes are not that easy to see from the side at night, especially with all the lights of the city and everything.
Yup....that's where the evidence points....chopper pilot reported he "has the traffic" to ATC, but obviously was looking at a different plane, not the one he collided with.
There was a plane taking off and was real close and actually in the video .
No way. Look again closely. That helicopter elevated, accelerated and aimed at that plane.
The heli plowed into the plane! No accident!!! Remote controlled!
@@blucollarball3r-- EXACTLY!!! It was an attack!
Simple. The HELO pilot was "looking" at the ***wrong*** plane. No anti-collision systems on military aircraft and they are allowed to cross landing corridors. Sickening.
According to another video, both aircraft had TACS but TACS gives limited guidance below 1000 feet.
@@swerne01 TACS I presume is built with automatic mutual avoidance guidance in order to take away decision both planes avoiding each other in the same direction and crashing, and yes, one would not want it to drive a plane into the ground at low altitudes. However for low altitudes, an alarm should be raised to both pilots that would automatically enable a dedicated emergency voice channel between the two so the mutual avoidance can be done in collaboration. Both military and civilian aircraft could benefit from such a system.
Said the same thing from teh clip I saw....asking do you see the plane, is STUPID in a sea of planes...controller and helicopter pilot error, sadly...of course unlike our president we will wait for analysis and results.
Thought about you, Capt. When I heard about the Korean situation recently, not for this mid-air business. True Hero right there, kids.
I had a friend who was a bomber pilot in the Second World War . Completed three operational tours . Started on Wellington’s and finished on Lancasters . A man like Scully a consummate professional pilot . These men have an understanding of the process of flying an aircraft that covers details we don’t even know existed. Every aspect of air transport. Commercial pilots have a very had job today because of what is being taken from their control . I know Captain (Retired) Sullenburg is a believer in ensuring that pilot of the aircraft does not have to much control and decision making taken out of the cockpit. He is likely very aware of the layers of failure that caused this accident, but would never speculate.
Your friend is a GOAT.
Amazing how many years in the US until now that we had no airplane accidents. Really an amazing achievement.
You're wrong. Look up the near misses. This guy is a bull shitter.
Unbelievable safety record. Accidents do happen every day on the roadways. It is astonishing that the safety record is next to perfect with all the traffic in the sky.
Careful. I’m sorry but I know of too many pilots who have died in plane crashes in recent years.
Most painful was my dad whose accident is still unresolved 5 years later due to just shear incompetence and lack of responsibility.
There’s always crashes. Most of the time it just doesn’t make the news.
Your very wrong and should do research @natr3980
There are accidents in aviation in the US. My realtor died in a mid air collision in Nevada in summer of 2022.
It was 100% the fault of the helicopter pilot, he radioed he had the plane in sight, and was given the clearance to proceed behind the aircraft…could be the helicopter pilot mistook an aircraft that was taking off to be the aircraft he collided with.
OK NTSB CHAIRMAN
seems the most logical answer. It was the System that caused this tragedy. "We have done it this way for years" we will hear. All those lights, at night, a dynamic situation, intense concentration...pure bad luck. Three seconds either way, the jet would have landed.
Exactly this... retired Delta Captain.
Having flown this approach 100's of time. It's insane for the FAA to allow a circling approach to 33 at night. There are tons of lights on the ground and the turn onto final is tight. Your concentration is on the turn and the line up of the runway. It's easy to see why the two aircraft never saw each other.
from my aviation experience I would go as far as to say it is criminal that airforce traffic could be allowed to pass at such a critical time in the approach
Helicopter crew confirmed they saw the jet
@@ecomandurban7183That’s all I keep thinking about. Why the hell was a military helicopter even on a flight path that close to the inbound flight path of a civilian airport? Out here in SD you would almost never see military aircraft, especially helicopters that close to SD airport.. they stuck to Miramar and Coronado.
From the graphic representations I've seen, it appears that the jets belly would have been facing the helicopter for most of the turn. I wonder if the jet crew ever saw the helicopter at all.
Misjudgement(s) based on human error(s).
Everyone is focused on the "how" ... No empathy for those whom were lost.
I luv hearing Sully speak about anything aviation related. A true professional! 👍 Condolences to the family & friends of the victims of this awful tragedy.
So very tragic for all these families.🙏🏼 God bless the 1st responders .
I find it amazing that crowded airspace relies on visual, rather than instrumental, flight control.
Particularly at night
@@UnlicensedOkie And why would the military be doing helicopter training flights in this area and at night? As Sully said, to land at the airport takes special training. I know military base is nearby, but as I said helicopter training flights in this area and at night sounds a recipe for an accident. Sad.
So this was caused by a “student helicopter driver.” WHOOPS
@@rabbit251 unfortunately its the nature of the game. If things ever went wrong these pilots would need to fly in difficult and dangerous circumstances. You dont want the first time they do that to be in a time of emergency. You want them ready to go and used to operating in dangerous, high pressure environments. Accidents happen and rules are written in blood unfortunately
Instrument flight control isn't for separating aircraft. It's for navigating during bad weather.
Two scenarios are the probable cause - the helicopter intentionally crashed into the plane, or the helicopter mistakenly had the wrong plane in sight when prompted by ATC
Wow you are smart.
Or there wasn't time to divert because the traffic controller failed at his job
I find it exceptionally hard to believe that three guys all got together and committed suicide.. one I could believe.. but not three
Why is military helicopter in commercial flying space???
@ ATC did nothing wrong, he told the helicopter to maintain visual separation and the helicopter confirmed the instruction
I'm so sorry for the people that lost their lives.
Needlessly. A military training mission. What a load of b.s. There was an ice skating team full of kids, all dead for what? So a big bully General at the local military base can run a training mission. Stinks!
Going to disagree with you on this one sully, the holes in the Swiss cheese have to line up for things to go bad, not everything has to be perfect for things to go right. A lot of mistakes were made for this to happen.
That's what I thought.
Agreed.
Just think, mistakes will happen again. Isn't that amazing.
Captain Sullenberger now reminds me so much of Captain Al Haynes - another total hero pilot.
Cut it short: the chopper never saw the plane coming.
And there have been tens of near misses. US airspace is a mess.
It is shocking and a terrible incident. We lost 67 lives. That said, on average 120 people PER DAY die in car crashes. It’s sort of on the scale of the line attributed to Stalin. “One person’s death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic.” We don’t get nearly as freaked out about car collisions (unless we see one or are in one). Car deaths are the statistic.
Tell that to the U.S in Iraq and Vietnam and other civilians they killed not to mention almost every other country in time has done the same. Stalin was just 1. Also people do get scared of crashing a car and also when a plane goes down it's usually mass casualty for bigger airlines. When you have no control of the plan and falling from the sky I would say that's alot scarier than a car crash.
The helocopter compromised the airliners air space.
Tragic 😢. Sully sounded like a true ambassador. What worries me is that why doesn’t a state of the art military aircraft have a collision detection system? Even a cheap car beeps when you are reversing and about to hit the garage wall, or when you even barely swears off the highway lane! Hope we learn from this and fix what went wrong without waiting 2 years for the final report.
I WISH THIS MAN WOULD RUN FOR OFFICE.
Airports are too greedy to allow safety to get on the way.
Too much air traffic at this small DC airport, commercial, military and other craft constantly getting out of each other's way while staying clear of the nearby Pentagon. It's just too much air traffic at one time in a tight geographic space.
So much focus on the airline pilots need for extra training here. It didn’t look like the airlines fault to me.
Because they only spoke to someone with experience in commercial aviation crashes. This crash reeks of a military suicide mission; the CRJ was given right of way before the copter, and the helicopter was asked to acknowledge that the plane was ahead of them. If holding patterns were being correctly followed, the helicopter should have waited.
I don't believe it was either of the pilots faults in either the plane or the black hawk. This is the tower and ATC fault and likely their policies or instrumentation. It makes me sick people blaming pilots of either craft at this point because they have no clue. FAA are more apt to be to blame for this just look up the near misses in the air that have taken place. The skies are not safe to fly until they get this fixed. Period.
@@Imhavinganervousbreakdown No, tower told the helicopter to pass BEHIND the CRJ. The crew acknowledged. CRJ is stable on final, from a circle to land. Tower isn't at fault, helicopter has to maintain visual separation, as instructed, and as they affirmed. But they didn't. Did they think the departing airplane, was the one being called out? Maybe. Lights everywhere, close to the ground, probably true...But Tower, as we speak now, isn't at fault for this. And the CRJ has the right of way in this scenario, it's the helicopter who must move for the CRJ.
SA will be reviewed in all aspects. Very congested airspace, with Civ and Mil flights everywhere. UHF and VHF, discreet codes, no RA below 1000ft...It'll all be reviewed.
But unfortunately, in aviation, new rules/laws only get made in blood. There rarely is a proactive approach to aviation safety.
@@dparker4765 But it wasn't told to wait and it thought it had visual on the plane not realising there were 3.
Its far time the FAA starts using satellite comms. This scratchy VHF freq is ridiculous to try to understand as a pilot with so much cross talk.
You’re not hearing the actual VHF communications-you’re hearing an internet stream of a hobbyist’s home-built receiver that is trying to intercept a signal with very little line of sight and oftentimes poor reception. Rarely if ever is air/ground VHF difficult to understand. As a pilot, the more prominent communications issue I see here is the heli being on a UHF frequency with the CRJ on a VHF frequency. Yes, ATC was simulcasting to both, but when visual separation is guaranteed by only a few hundred feet assuming it all goes right (which it didn’t), both aircraft should be able to hear each other as they maneuver with tight separation.
Hahahahahahahaha. You should hear how bad sat comm is vs vhf not to metion how slow it is. VHF doesnt sound like this when you have a headset on and working the actual traffic.
So sad. Capt Sully is so well spoken and beneficial in understanding how these horrific events can happen.
Allowing crossing traffic in the landing flight path at such low altitude is just stupid.
There should be a designated corridor at sufficient altitude to keep crossing traffic clear, and it shouldn't be located less than a mile from active runways. For many years there were corridors in the NY TCA for transponder equipped VFR traffic to cross approaching airline or other IFR traffic.
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Serious? The helicopter was running a training flight with newbies right next to a busy airport? That was so fucking stupid.
They weren't newbies. Everyone has to requalify for many things.
So true, and some articles are referring to night vision goggles possibly being used.
Newbies? How many hours did the crew of the Blackhawk have? To my knowledge their experience level is not currently public information, but please do prove me uninformed.
Define newbies. I have no idea where they were in their training, but I would assume this flight path would have to be well into the program. We'll see.
It's amazing how many people think that nothing bad can never happen. You're definitely a 🤡.
It was at night, the visual probably was messed up with light pollution, the helicopter pilot was not experienced
Sully is the Godfather of Aviation in my opinion. When he speaks, I tune everything out and lunge for the remote to turn up the volume. "Not now Dear, it's Sully.... pipe down kids!"
This dissaster was bound to happen at some point. RIP to the victims. If nothing changes with this busy traffic airspace, accidents will continue to happen in the future.
The plane was on final; this one is on the Blackhawk.
A military UH-60 was refusing orders from air traffic controllers and continued on course when the air plane had the right of way.
I really hope their families are okay. This truly is one of the most unfortunate things anyone could wake up to.
It will take a long time for the families to recover from this. They will miss their family members for the rest of their lives.
They swiftly labeled it as a 'training flight' for that military aircraft. That was kinda fast. ATC was loud and clear, asking if that military aircraft had sighted the plane, and the reply was a firm 'affirmative.'
So how in the world did they keep going in the same direction after confirming visual contact? Makes you wonder. Need to know the reason for that last minute change of from runway 1 to 33. Plane altitude was 400f when this happened. There is a need of some serious investigation.
A quick response means a cover-up
Helicopter crew looked at the wrong plane.
You left out that the AA flight had an abrupt altitude drop. This may have caused the collision. I am not sure if people get the miracle of air flight. There is so much traffic in the skies. Maybe too much around that airport for sure.
@ Pul5: A circling to land approach- meaning circling to land from runway 33 to runway 1 happens hundreds of times a day at many airports throughout the USA.
perhaps that helicopter was involved in the search for illegals? No it was a training flight
He is the best person to talk to. He's a hero himself, a legend! 👏
There's NO requirement for ATC to separate those two planes. The helo was operating VFR. Its was the helo pilots responsibility to see and be seen.
Yes it was only the tower's responsibility to maintain positive separation for IFR traffic (American) and the VFR helicopter, up until the point he accepted the instruciton to maintain visual separation and pass behind the CRJ. Also, while advisable to follow the recommended altitudes on the VFR helicopter route chart, I think those altitudes are voluntary and don't carry the same enforcement as a clearance to maintain an altitude. The primary separation here was supposed to be horizontal, and enforced by visual separation.
the airliner was NOT at fault at all. The heli should have diverted away from the landing path. 100% avoidable. Quesytion is: why did the ATC and/or the heli not divert away. The ATC only told the heli to go behind the CRJ. Should have demanded the heli divert away, PERIOD.
I do not understand how the 3 crew in the helicopter did not see the plane. They seemed to be going very fast near an airport runway.
Maybe we should finally catch up with the rest of the world and invest in high speed rail? That would surely clear some of the sky traffic.
Dispite how safe it is or how rare an accident is, it does not change the fact that your life is in thier hands 100%.
SULLY......AMERICAN HERO AND TRULY HUMAN....!!! REST IN PEACE ALL INVOLVED IN THIS HORRIBLE ACCIDENT.......!!! 😪😪😪😪
Finally, they get someone who actually has a good knowledge of aviation, thanks sully.
It was pilot error on the part of the helicopter!
Although I appreciate the intent of what the President is saying, it is known we have not had an aviation crash in 15 years. The helicopter had to have seen out of the windshield the plane. They do not have early warning on these copters, put the visual was there regardless of the fact it was a training mission...
Also, controllers are overworked and exhausted nationwide.. NATCA has been alerting about nationwide understaffing since Reagan fired controllers in the 1980s.
relying on visuals at night? ATC should've just separate them
I think it just shows what they do is dangerous and takes work and practice and its amazing most flights are safe. Prayers to those who have lost loved ones.
No pilot in his right mind, unless he is committing suicide, sees the other aircraft, takes no avoiding action and flies straight into it. The Blackhawk pilot probably mistook a different plane for the CRJ and the ATC, who are too busy, did not advise the Blackhawk to turn left with heading, when they saw that they were on a collision course.
Some responses here say they had night goggles on. My question is why they never responded to any of the commands from the ATC tech ?
there was another plane on approach in the helo's sight. mick west channel has a good video on it.
They did. @@tysgem7
The news last night played audio where air traffic control did try to reach the helicopter and they weren’t responding.
@kitskivich they did respond. They said they saw the traffic.
So many aircraft flying in close proximity to one another seems like a recipe for disaster, and is.
This an absolute failure of the ATC. Two planes on a head on collision course dangerously close at night in a very busy approach and it's up to the pilots to avoid each other? That's insane!
The airline pilots are focused on their approach, the ATC should have delayed the helicopter or diverted it away from the approach, especially since it was only passing through the area.
*training* military boys in a high traffic commercial airspace was always going to be deadly. I am going to guess that this had close calls before.
Hello Sully, thank you for your perspective.❤
With so much air traffic in one area. Could it be that the helicopter pilot was looking at the wrong plane?
From across the pond What the hell was a military helicopter doing in the flight path of a main airport it would not happen here
How much you wanna bet the helicopter pilots are at fault but they will still be hailed as heroes even though they killed over 60 people. They should’ve have never been wearing their night vision near the airport, let alone crossing inbound flight path in such close proximity. I sincerely believe the helicopter pilots were flying around like they own the sky.
It’s a failure of communication. Military helicopter pilots did not contact the air traffic controller. Either this is not being taught in the military or they went rogue.
They do contact ATC but on a different frequency.
Air traffic control should never be relieved of the responsibility
In life
sometimes things will happen without a full understanding. I pray for each and every person's family.
This is why I only fly with Capt. Sully
So you don’t fly, got it.
air traffic controllers can never 'relieve themselves' of critical air safety
The video i saw shows the helicopter coming up behind the plane. Apparently, the helicopter didn't see the Airliner
trumps speech about this accident sounded like a bad book report from a flunked third grader, what a moron, how can so many be conned by him?
He didn't, "This was unacceptable," as did the MULTI-CONVICTED FELON who now ILLEGALLY resides in the White House.
How haven't you already received a Darwin award for being out of check with reality?
Its just amazing the amount of airline pilots weighing in with their experienced opinions on this. Incredible! 😅
I have great respect for Capt. Sully. Thank you sir.
God bless you captain
It is becoming a systemic problem, accidents waiting to happen any time you get in/on a plane. Overcrowded air traffic system (ground and air), outdated ATC infrastructure, jam packed ground and sky of aircraft. It is time hit the reset button and ground about 25% - 35% of the aircraft currently operating in the USA plus update the ATC infrastructure. You cannot keep packing more airplanes in a confined space and expect to not have frequent collisions. Based on today’s operating environment tragedies like this should not be a surprise. Thank you for your superb reporting.
I’m heartbroken. Expect to see more of the same with the implementation of DOGE…the gutting of critical FAA infrastructure, NTSB, and key aviation training programs.
Why don't you just pray for the families first and then complain
Capt. Sully is the epitome of the highest degree of aeronautical decision making skills in the commercial aviation industry!