Not to all those fools blindly supporting Hans He’s a serial cheater and a liar Even if he has NEVER cheated OTB (and that’s a HUGE if) Magnus still had the right to refuse to play him
Back in 1997, Kasparov was defeated by Deep Blue. After years of investigation it was confirmed that Deep Blue had cheated. Deep Blue exhibited 100 % engine correlation in every game.
You’re joking, but I do believe that it was confirmed that the engineers were cheating by providing Deep Blue with tablebase openings, or running it on better hardware than they said they would.
Chess gotta be the most forgiving competitive game ever. Imagine an eSports pro being like "I only cheated online never on LAN". eSports would immediately ban a person for at least a few years and essentially would ruin the person's career.
Most competitive games had the only multiplayer has a core in the game. Only fighting games with their arcade versions come as lan first/ only aspect into my mind. Though, many others still have their best / highest formats in lan. Like starcraft and stuff. Since in person 1vs 1 or whatever the format is gives more excitement to the tournament and prevents cheating and control. I would even go further and say only with the Pandemic many of the tournaments video games have gone online even in the last stages of the tournament. Early, it was mainly the more unimportant stages were played only, with the high stakes parts being in person. Though, i can imagine that with video games tournaments were the players were spread around on the globe, the best skill kind of tournes had to be online no matter what. But Covid really changed the world and how people think.
That is true. It is also natural, as cheating in chess is one of the most common ways to practice or teach it. That is not necessarily the case for most Esports, where cheating instead is some bullshit that's injected to enhance the game into something it was never intended to be. Cheating in offline chess: I learned a lot at the cost of making the game unconvincingly difficult for my opponent. Cheating in most offline Esports: I paid for this dark demigod experience with the sanity and time of every human being I faced, and I should seek therapy. Unless of course it is in a competition with an actual prize of any variety, in which case it should be legally treated as theft or worse, depending on the case.
@@majormononoke8958 many players have cheated in lan events, in several games, including dota, StarCraft, csgo, overwatch, league, etc. It happens like every year. They get banned as fuck.
That Hans lied about the extent of his cheating is an indictment of his character. I understand he's a youngster but he's proving himself to be untrustworthy.
If he had admitted ALL of his cheating and did not say he would never do it for money, I'd say most people would forgive him for it - but since he lied, I think he should have had a 3 year ban from all professional chess. He needs to know it is that serious.
@@apocalypseap so where do we draw the line? I played chess with Magnus at the park and he moved a piece when I wasn’t looking. My 2 buddies saw him do it too. How long should his ban be
The problem with giving cheaters "a break" (even for very laudable reasons) is that (in one way or another, or perhaps in multiple ways) it ends up PUNISHING those who are strictly honest. And THAT is unambiguously a BAD thing.
except there is verifiable evidence, you just don't want to hear it or recognize it. He admitted to cheating, his stats are spastic and mimic a cheater, his explanations (or lack thereof) of positions and lines in his own games are horrendous and outright disrespectful jokes (even the commentators know his positions better...hmmmm)....etc etc. ppl like you who will only 'maybe' accept he's a cheater if a literal bead is found while he's using it are the problem.
chess has entered the online age, since covid at least, and many people in that space have the excact stance on cheating that online games have been teaching us for decades now. if you cheat in a tournament it obivously means a permaban, and often the end of an esport career, why would chess be any different? it's just baffing to me that repeated cheaters get to play in half a million dollar tournaments. this incentivizes cheating to a ridiculous point.
It's in all sports. Look at cycling. Pretty much all the offenders are either back in the saddle, are very well paid commentators or have managing functions in cycling teams. Cheating pays, that's just how human society works, especially when it's so easy to cheat.
Cycling is different. In Lance Armstrongs days all the top players were cheating. However you still need exceptional conditioning and talent to make it at that level. Its more you have to cheat because everyone was doing it. Chess is not the same. The top ayers avoid cheating and you don't need skill if you cheat or at least significantly less. Engines and steroids are not the same.
@@chrisdin4109 The intent is the same, to get more money in a million dollar industry.. Besides who knows that top players avoid cheating? If some current 2700+ players are smart about it and only use it sparingly, no one will ever notice.
@@ericvosselmans5657 that's exactly why when someone is caught it should be a perma ban. If we had better detection we could be more lenient. But FIDE can't afford to be lenient with their trash detection, if they want to give players more chances they need to improve their anti-cheating measures. And their policies should absolutely NOT be based on the Hans case. He's been getting special treatment just because he's the first public case and the politics around it.
I feel like the concept of "zero tolerance" doesn't jive with the concept of giving people private 2nd and 3rd chances, and letting people continue on like nothing happened. That's an awful lot of tolerance.
It’d be badass if there was a special chess room. You go through a decontamination chamber where they comb through your hair and make you change into chess clothes. Then you enter a chamber like magnetos from that one X-men movie and play. It would add a lot to the drama of the whole thing. I’d wAtch it.
Cheating should be a 2-3 strike thing and once you use those chances you're done. Giving cheaters basically unlimited chances is not fair for those who play the game legitimately.
1 strike should do, that is the line between an incidental and serial cheater, an offender and a recidivist. Not even accounting for the times you were not caught. As a wise man once said: "fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me - you can't get fooled again."
Very bad to give chances. Even with 1 chance, you allow someone to cheat a lot and they know that if they ever get caught, they will expire their chance, and then have to play normal. This can be easily manipulated
@@Summonick2 Giving them a 2nd chance could still involve for instance a 2yr temporary ban; that can have a serious effect if you are a professional, for instance. I agree though that it shouldn't just be "try again", there should be some consequences involved. But they do not immediately need to comprise a lifetime ban.
@@kethmarhkfy7luf.263 Sure, someone living in a small village meeting few people and killing a person is a lot worse than someone living in a huge city and meeting thousands of people and killing only one of those? The primary problem is that you cheat, not how regularly you cheat.
Yup, I am struck how many bad arguments and conclusions Hikaru draws...Just 3 big ones: (1) At the very highest level cheating is less obvious and like you said depends on confessions after confronted and basing that on their cheating detection data crunching and then expert cheating panel. (2) This might explain the delay in confronting Hans...So times being confronted, doesn't equal times cheated. (3) That other titled cheaters only cheated once? Based on what? That is not in their report...
@@nine9nine9 No... cheating once is not enough evidence. There is not a possible way to draw a statistical conclusion. Chesscom would have to directly catch you with an engine.
@Mike not even a single gm claimed that Magnus is being salty, even though they have known him and been his rival for decades. He himself has never made a similar claim in his entire career, despite losing to both weaker and younger players. In fact on the contrary, we have always seen Magnus only praising his young opponents. It's somehow only noobs who believe that Magnus is salty. Whether Hans cheated or not might be up in the air, but there is no question Magnus genuinely believes in his claim.
@Mike Magnus is 6 times world champion that lost A LOT of games that some of the losses were to handful of really bad players. Now you tell me isnt it strange that the best chess player of all times for a lot of people accused someone of cheating?
Magnus did not actually accuse Hans of cheating, but his actions did. He could have done it another way. If he didn’t, it’s a hard hit, but he did cheat before. I do think Magnus’s actions did bring attention to it as it was kept in the closet as to not give chess a bad name. Bobby Fisher caused a lot of problems making a big fuss about many things going on at the time. His actions brought attention to things like the sounds, cameras, spectators and other things the distracted him and made him uncomfortable. Eventually it lead to less distractions and better conveniences in the game today. Just saying!
27:55 I agree with that statement, but that's normal on sports a bad call from a referee or a player diving etc creates a negative consequence on their opponent for the rest of the qualifiers/tournament etc. That's why they should be reprimanded and/or expelled from tournaments if they get caught more than once.
Danny Rensch indirectly already said why they are so nice to cheaters in one of his messages with Dlugy: They want ALL the best chess players in the world to play on their site, they want the monopole. If GMs would go to the rivals like Lichess, its bad for them in the long run.
because it was in the past and they didn't care until their new business partner had a tantrum. Now they realise how how straight forwardly obvious it is that their actions are just protecting their business partner and want to try to look good.
@@MrPatchtkennedy your statement implies the deal with Magnus would have fallen if they didn't do what they did, hans has been banned from the site a number of times pre magnus,
@@vincentfrimpong4665 no it doesn't haha. It's explicitly states what it states, that chesscom changed their position after their business partner had a tantrum. There's no implication about why at all.
Yep, same reason they only expose a small amount of the cheaters and their entire system is a black box and we are just supposed to take their word for it
@@MrPatchtkennedy Actually it was because Hans made his statement, but ok. That's like saying you made this stupid comment because your mother gave birth to you (unfortunately). Yes, but no.
I'm a strong believer in redemption, but not in the case of cheating in chess. for two reasons: 1) cheating in chess isn't like cheating in, say, baseball. In baseball the player is only given an advantage by cheating; he still has to hit to ball, throw the pitch, make the catch, etc. In chess, the engine is doing all the work, the player is utterly irrelevant. The competition isn't just undermined, it's annihilated. 2) Telling a cheater they were caught effectively informs them of what 'slip up' they made to get caught. Essentially it's training them to become better cheaters. They now know where the line is, they know what they have to do to avoid getting caught, making it much harder to catch them a second time (the fact Hans was caught so many times is indicative of just what a pathological cheater he is)
It depends on the manner of cheating in chess. For example, see Hikaru's interview clip Lex Friedman just posted where Hikaru says all he'd need is a single "buzz" (of some beads, for example) to alert him that there is "one move" to make in the current position. No info on which move, which piece, where to move it, etc... all he'd need to to be alerted that there is "a" move the leads to significant advantage and that would be enough for him to invest the time to find it and he'd be unstoppable. You or I given the same "buzz" in the same position and we'd still lose.
I like what Magnus did for chess. He is in a unique position to not have to tiptoe around with what he says. His reputation cannot be damaged. Any other chess player making accusations could affect their career in the sport. Magnus literally couldn't care less.
Not defending Hans, Maxim or Petrosian, but Chesscom including sarcastic statements such as "Yeah lawyers, why did we have to use the word likely"... "regardless of any p... in any pampers", albeit funny, doesn't seem to show the maturity and professionalism you would expect from a professional organization of its stature.
Hans was give. So many chances because: Danny is so nice Hans was so young Hans is pretty clearly a compulsive liar, and pretty good at it. They probably lying believed his lies about how sorry he was, and all that.
If they don't have a uniform policy for disciplining cheaters, titled or not, then they are incompetent. In fact, they should have higher standards and stricter punishment for titled players, if anything.
Coming from professional athletics: Chess is about 50 years behind when it comes to cheating; privately punishing cheaters based on their biases, such as letting someone continue to play and likely cheat because of their contribution to the chess community historically?! Y'all are acting like this isn't even a problem. Total amateur hour in the chess world. Love that the scandal brought me back to chess after not playing for over 25 years. Not complaining about the drama, it's fun admittedly.
Only ways stopping Hans from cheating, is either stopping him from playing or making it 100% impossible for him to cheat. He has proven that he is very willing to cheat if he can avoid being caught cheating or avoid punishment for it.
careful, you might encounter a bunch of idiots who say punishment is overrated those are for losers cheating its fine as long as its online, I love anal beads in my ass🤡
@darknightoftroy he didn't mislead people, he said Hans has cheated online in the past, and that is true, there is no lie there, even Hans admitted it.
@darknightoftroy to be fair, Hans was give a lot of chances but he showed that he indeed was willing to cheat again and again which is a reasonable reason to suspect someone, and Hans did kinda cheat his way into his career so he should take all the crap he's getting now, when you cheat once, you put a permanent label on your forehead, and that's not a bad thing, that's just how it works, for example (not saying Hans is a criminal), someone murdered a whole family, he goes to prison, he regrets his mistake, he's now free, guess what? Society is forever gonna label him a criminal. Hans cheated not only once but multiple times while getting bans after bans after bans, the chess community will be more than inclined to label him a chess cheater permanently, he did that, young or not, actions have consequences, besides 16? Seriously? He didn't know the consequences of cheating, and he's 16 at that time? Wha- that's not a youngster, that's a grown ass guy who knows what he's doing, Hans deserves the shit he's getting, he should man up and take it
The fact that Chesscom is *still* looking to give Hans another chance after over 100 instances of cheating on their platform including several events is absolutely ridiculous. Hans should never be allowed on Chesscom again.
smh some comments are just insane. People... once a cheater (twice caught, hundred times cheater), always a cheater. "an assassin killed more than 100 people BUT IT WAS IN THE PAST...! what makes you think he will do it again?"
Politely disagree on treating children with the same harshness with regards to anything. They are learning, that's the point of childhood to become a good adult. You can't expect someone to learn without the ability to make at least a mistake once. Many forget that chess masters are so young and haven't had the time to learn the world they live in while focusing on chess itself. Hans is still but a child here. While I do not condone cheating, it makes sense to be lenient here to allow growth. We each can do better to help everyone.
Just want to point out that the article does not state there were cases of cheating in the RCC qualifiers. They say that there was no cheating in the actual tournaments, but that there was some cheating in the qualifiers. That does not mean there was cheating in the qualifiers of all three tournaments.
well if they publicly ban players, more players will object to the detection methodology, and that might open up a series of controversies that could undermine the chess world as it is currently configured. even if they are quite accurate in determining cheaters, it's not good for business to shine a spotlight on it.
Hikaru: I know the stock is going to 140 Me: Looks up the stock Me: See's its only 116 Me: Making my limit order Hikaru: and to be clear I dont have a position *sad noises*
Chesscom's position is so mediocre. They are trying so hard to be with everyone and support everything that it looks like they don't know anything and don't understand the situation at all. Magnus shows you the depth in 20 words and they are empty with thousands in this article.
@mister kluge wrong all excuses, these chess children are literally terrified of Magnus. They would never tell the truth Magnus got them wrapped around his pawn.
@@connoryork6631 deadass Hans is just Hans everyone he verses can’t handle him, have you seen Hans vs Sam? Sam couldn’t handle Hans so Sam picked up Han’s king while it was Hans turn then broke it and threw it across the board. It’s mental Hans must have some crazy chess powers to be doing these things.
The fact that he's still milking this cheating scandal for views and saying absolutely nothing of value just shows how trash Hikaru is as a RUclipsr and how low he'll stoop for the next wave of ad revenue. Fucking let it go.
Maxim Dlugy just continues to incriminate himself with his own strange rants. To suggest that cheating online is not as bad as OTB cheating really sums up his thought process. Of course he is a victim just like dear Hans.
Witch Witch Witch Witch Burn the Witch Burn the Witch Burn the Witch, my cows milk went sour. Magnus went sour. I thought our society had progressed to a rule of law and evidence in a court of law.
It will be tested as a law suit has been raised. How much more malicious can one get than attempted destruction of a mans career? FWIW who exactly do you see are the defendants?
As it stands now, everyone sees that being a cheater will lead to hordes of people rush to defend you. Particularly, those that identify with you (in this case incels, weirdos, creeps, stalkers).
I think their arguments stands on these 12 pillars: 1: punishing someone for cheating shouldn't be done, it is really mean 😭😭 2: I love anal beads 3: it's ok, it's just online anyways 4: Magnus cheated 😈 5: I love it when the beads vibrate hard 6: don't make my inner demons come out 7: these anal beads are amazing I'm almost there! 8: I can feel the IQ coming inside me! 9: get a life lol 10: Hans is a baby he's so young he doesn't know what he's doing uwu, he's still learning y'know, 11: Magnus is world champion and that's not ok! 12: yuck it has shit all over it 🤮
New rule- "If you touch a piece and don't move it , touch another piece your hand gets cut off." At least you still have another hand to continue play, less you pass out from blood lost and can't continue. Second chances are allowed and third chances also if second hand lost. Thust proceeding play with mouth if willingness to do so. Same applies to 'touch' rules or of the rather cheating. If continued cheating "Off with their head"! A countdown timer from 10-0 will proceed. If one's spirit may return through sheer willness. Upon the count of 0 Resignation through unable to continue.
@@MrPatchtkennedy And blame him for not releasing the names of the many other titled cheaters that their business partner did not through a tantrum over.
He created this problem also he shit on hans after the period when he was reformed in theory all the information about hans is old nothing new happens outside beating magnus
People who cheat more than once should be kicked off the platform. This isn't rocket science. The fact that they still want to give Hans another chance is pure idiocy.
For those still confused about the Hans/Magnus game section and OTB activity: 1) They are not experts in OTB chess and their high quality cheat detection system is really for online chess. 2) However, they still can use statistical probabilities to determine how unusual Hans behavior and rise has been. They have done that and clearly say and show that it was highly unusual and the OTB events noted need follow-up. 3) They just said in the answer before that the language they have to use is limited by lawyers. They are saying their statistical analysis pointed towards something being up, but they can’t say likely or very likely, as OTB is not their expertise. So basically they’re saying Hans is an outlier and anomaly, which is pretty suspicious given the circumstances, but they are not the experts on it so they can’t say more than that. They can’t conclude with a definite opinion.
15:15 i don't think its legalese its more accurate to say likely, like they said even a chance of 99.99% is still "likely" or "most likely". with probabilities there is very rarely 100% or 0% the case.
Magnus should use pictures of the Icelandic 4-time world’s strongest man champ: Magnus Ver Magnusson. Now THAT was a cool name! Hikaru: consider using photos of Ver Magnusson in ur thumbnails!
Younger players deserve to be treated the same as adults. When I was 10+ I knew right from wrong so you cant keep using the "he was under 18" as an argument. Kids know damn well what they are doing is wrong and they continue to do it and get away with it because they never get held accountable for their actions.
Its common for fighters who make big payrolls to lose the hunger and fall off. It would be sad if the Play Magnus Sale messes up his play moving forward
Cheating speaks for itself
The “blank speaks for itself” comments are so low effort at this point that they’re giving me cancer
The evidence speaks for itself
@@TheChefCain Those comments speak for themselves
Cancer speaks for itself
Not to all those fools blindly supporting Hans
He’s a serial cheater and a liar
Even if he has NEVER cheated OTB (and that’s a HUGE if) Magnus still had the right to refuse to play him
Back in 1997, Kasparov was defeated by Deep Blue. After years of investigation it was confirmed that Deep Blue had cheated. Deep Blue exhibited 100 % engine correlation in every game.
You’re joking, but I do believe that it was confirmed that the engineers were cheating by providing Deep Blue with tablebase openings, or running it on better hardware than they said they would.
the joke: ➡️
you: 🤔
it was an engine.....
@@DarkTempler1 the joke just went way over your head…
@@TheAluvisify is this actually true😂 that’s hilarious. Multi layer jokes unintentionally
Hans is so high-profile, he's getting an invite to race in the next Indy 500: 'Gentlemen, start your engines'.
lmao
I did actually not see that ending coming. Take a like 🤣
Hahaha
Legendary comment lol
took me a while to get the joke, but that was still so gold
I love the part when Magnus was like “It’s Magnus Time” and started Magnussing everywhere
It's was truly one of the moments of all time
The Magnussy speaks for itself
The word "Magnussing" has ruined my mental state because now I am thinking about the word "Magnussy" and I don't like it
@@kevkevpurple Detroit become Magnussy
Its Magnin Time
Chess gotta be the most forgiving competitive game ever. Imagine an eSports pro being like "I only cheated online never on LAN". eSports would immediately ban a person for at least a few years and essentially would ruin the person's career.
Most competitive games had the only multiplayer has a core in the game. Only fighting games with their arcade versions come as lan first/ only aspect into my mind. Though, many others still have their best / highest formats in lan. Like starcraft and stuff. Since in person 1vs 1 or whatever the format is gives more excitement to the tournament and prevents cheating and control.
I would even go further and say only with the Pandemic many of the tournaments video games have gone online even in the last stages of the tournament. Early, it was mainly the more unimportant stages were played only, with the high stakes parts being in person. Though, i can imagine that with video games tournaments were the players were spread around on the globe, the best skill kind of tournes had to be online no matter what. But Covid really changed the world and how people think.
eSport games don't have a comparable and corrupted and laughable organisation like the FIDE.
That is true. It is also natural, as cheating in chess is one of the most common ways to practice or teach it. That is not necessarily the case for most Esports, where cheating instead is some bullshit that's injected to enhance the game into something it was never intended to be.
Cheating in offline chess: I learned a lot at the cost of making the game unconvincingly difficult for my opponent.
Cheating in most offline Esports: I paid for this dark demigod experience with the sanity and time of every human being I faced, and I should seek therapy.
Unless of course it is in a competition with an actual prize of any variety, in which case it should be legally treated as theft or worse, depending on the case.
well u dont know shit about esports too then. get urself well informed first before mentioning stuff so u dont look like a silly goose.
@@majormononoke8958 many players have cheated in lan events, in several games, including dota, StarCraft, csgo, overwatch, league, etc.
It happens like every year.
They get banned as fuck.
That Hans lied about the extent of his cheating is an indictment of his character. I understand he's a youngster but he's proving himself to be untrustworthy.
That narrative is old af people were saying thay 3 weeks ago who gives a fuck?
If he had admitted ALL of his cheating and did not say he would never do it for money, I'd say most people would forgive him for it - but since he lied, I think he should have had a 3 year ban from all professional chess. He needs to know it is that serious.
@@apocalypseap so where do we draw the line? I played chess with Magnus at the park and he moved a piece when I wasn’t looking. My 2 buddies saw him do it too. How long should his ban be
@Mike no disrespect, but you genuinely have no clue what your talking about if you think that this all happened because Magnus can’t take a loss lmao.
Not necessarily. People would rather not ventilate embarrassing past actions if possible... Lying is an alternative... It's not hard to understand.
The problem with giving cheaters "a break" (even for very laudable reasons) is that (in one way or another, or perhaps in multiple ways) it ends up PUNISHING those who are strictly honest. And THAT is unambiguously a BAD thing.
Cheating isn't honest
@@456death654 i think you need to reread the comment
@@456death654 Indeed. I agree that allowing any level of cheating damages the integrity of the sport.
You NEED to Face the Fact that accusing someone of OTB cheating without any verifiable, "is unambiguously a BAD thing."
except there is verifiable evidence, you just don't want to hear it or recognize it. He admitted to cheating, his stats are spastic and mimic a cheater, his explanations (or lack thereof) of positions and lines in his own games are horrendous and outright disrespectful jokes (even the commentators know his positions better...hmmmm)....etc etc. ppl like you who will only 'maybe' accept he's a cheater if a literal bead is found while he's using it are the problem.
The update speaks for itself
🤣👍
so clever and original!
@@magnum4989 so was your comment, I've seen people say "so clever and original" about a million times on youtube
@@magnum4989 Are you the real Magnum Curlson ?
@@dignum he's an ice cream
When you are so early to drama the video is in 240p
-The Magnus Effect
360 now)
It's 360 now.
It's 1080p now.
Thank goodness!! -- the editor
@@GMHikaru Not that I expect a reply but I am curious to whether we could get 4k videos anytime soon?
Stockfish speaks for Hanself.
*WE GOT HANS IN STOCKFISH*
Stans Fishman didn't cheat
chess has entered the online age, since covid at least, and many people in that space have the excact stance on cheating that online games have been teaching us for decades now. if you cheat in a tournament it obivously means a permaban, and often the end of an esport career, why would chess be any different? it's just baffing to me that repeated cheaters get to play in half a million dollar tournaments. this incentivizes cheating to a ridiculous point.
It's in all sports. Look at cycling. Pretty much all the offenders are either back in the saddle, are very well paid commentators or have managing functions in cycling teams. Cheating pays, that's just how human society works, especially when it's so easy to cheat.
Cycling is different. In Lance Armstrongs days all the top players were cheating.
However you still need exceptional conditioning and talent to make it at that level. Its more you have to cheat because everyone was doing it.
Chess is not the same. The top ayers avoid cheating and you don't need skill if you cheat or at least significantly less.
Engines and steroids are not the same.
@@chrisdin4109 The intent is the same, to get more money in a million dollar industry.. Besides who knows that top players avoid cheating? If some current 2700+ players are smart about it and only use it sparingly, no one will ever notice.
@@ericvosselmans5657 that's exactly why when someone is caught it should be a perma ban.
If we had better detection we could be more lenient. But FIDE can't afford to be lenient with their trash detection, if they want to give players more chances they need to improve their anti-cheating measures.
And their policies should absolutely NOT be based on the Hans case. He's been getting special treatment just because he's the first public case and the politics around it.
Hikaru - The number 1 Magnus ass kisser!
I forget how blessed we are with 1080p, used to be like 480p max.
Sometimes you go back for nostalgia and think wow, it's not just my internet this time
480p looks fine.... on CRT's
I feel like the concept of "zero tolerance" doesn't jive with the concept of giving people private 2nd and 3rd chances, and letting people continue on like nothing happened.
That's an awful lot of tolerance.
Burn it all down, shouldn't be exceptions for cheaters in money tournaments.
It’d be badass if there was a special chess room. You go through a decontamination chamber where they comb through your hair and make you change into chess clothes. Then you enter a chamber like magnetos from that one X-men movie and play. It would add a lot to the drama of the whole thing. I’d wAtch it.
Hans: Too much iron in your butt 🧐🧲
I think Dan really did like Hans. Hans has not done well to repay that leeway he was given.
The remark ‘it speaks for itself’, speaks for itself.
The remark about the remark "it speaks for itself", speaks for itself.
Itself
(it's speaking for itself)
@@artemvolsh387 The remark about the remark about the remark speaking for itself, speaks for itself.
@@hankschrader7261 now it's right,
right remarking remarkable remark about the remark about the remark that speaks for itself
@@artemvolsh387 I’ve said the word remark so many times to myself now, that it feels as though it’s lost all meaning 🤣
Hikaru comparing the OTB organizers anti-cheating response to 9/11 is awesome because Hans is Osama bin Laden in that analogy.
Hans-sama bin Cheatin
This was unexpected lol.
*Bead Laden
Am I gullible? Gonna watch through the video to timestamp
EDIT: 30:50
@@a.b.g3717 it's towards the end.
Cheating should be a 2-3 strike thing and once you use those chances you're done. Giving cheaters basically unlimited chances is not fair for those who play the game legitimately.
1 strike should do, that is the line between an incidental and serial cheater, an offender and a recidivist. Not even accounting for the times you were not caught.
As a wise man once said: "fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me - you can't get fooled again."
Very bad to give chances. Even with 1 chance, you allow someone to cheat a lot and they know that if they ever get caught, they will expire their chance, and then have to play normal.
This can be easily manipulated
@@Summonick2 Giving them a 2nd chance could still involve for instance a 2yr temporary ban; that can have a serious effect if you are a professional, for instance.
I agree though that it shouldn't just be "try again", there should be some consequences involved. But they do not immediately need to comprise a lifetime ban.
Hikaru - The number 1 Magnus ass kisser!
@@kethmarhkfy7luf.263 Sure, someone living in a small village meeting few people and killing a person is a lot worse than someone living in a huge city and meeting thousands of people and killing only one of those?
The primary problem is that you cheat, not how regularly you cheat.
Your summarization is wrong. EVERYONE who is caught cheating done it many many times. They cannot catch you, unless you cheat a lot.
People like to give people the benefit of the doubt I guess, but this is an excellent point
Not always actually, someone might just be really bad at cheating and get caught on the first time
I think it would take only one perfect game for them to ban my account since I suck that bad at chess
Yup, I am struck how many bad arguments and conclusions Hikaru draws...Just 3 big ones:
(1) At the very highest level cheating is less obvious and like you said depends on confessions after confronted and basing that on their cheating detection data crunching and then expert cheating panel.
(2) This might explain the delay in confronting Hans...So times being confronted, doesn't equal times cheated.
(3) That other titled cheaters only cheated once? Based on what? That is not in their report...
@@nine9nine9 No... cheating once is not enough evidence. There is not a possible way to draw a statistical conclusion. Chesscom would have to directly catch you with an engine.
I love GMH's take on these updates.
I agree. I also love GM Hans take in all these situation.
Loved your podcast with Lex!
Whatever you think of Magnus' withdrawal itself, the fallout is making an enormous contribution to chess which would not have occurred had he not.
@Mike No lies has been told though? 🤔
@Mike not even a single gm claimed that Magnus is being salty, even though they have known him and been his rival for decades. He himself has never made a similar claim in his entire career, despite losing to both weaker and younger players. In fact on the contrary, we have always seen Magnus only praising his young opponents.
It's somehow only noobs who believe that Magnus is salty.
Whether Hans cheated or not might be up in the air, but there is no question Magnus genuinely believes in his claim.
@Mike Magnus has earned the benefit of the doubt with his actions. Hans has earned nothing but skepticism and doubt.
@Mike Magnus is 6 times world champion that lost A LOT of games that some of the losses were to handful of really bad players. Now you tell me isnt it strange that the best chess player of all times for a lot of people accused someone of cheating?
@Mike Read again. Slowly this time.
Hikaru struggling to make a stocks comparison and then just saying “I’m too stupid to figure it out right now” had me cackling
Magnus did not actually accuse Hans of cheating, but his actions did. He could have done it another way. If he didn’t, it’s a hard hit, but he did cheat before. I do think Magnus’s actions did bring attention to it as it was kept in the closet as to not give chess a bad name.
Bobby Fisher caused a lot of problems making a big fuss about many things going on at the time. His actions brought attention to things like the sounds, cameras, spectators and other things the distracted him and made him uncomfortable. Eventually it lead to less distractions and better conveniences in the game today.
Just saying!
But today we still call Bobby manchild and crazy over it
Surely Magnus didn't take all of his actions without thinking and its not because of his lost in Sincfield cup
Hikaru - The number 1 Magnus ass kisser!
@@zah936 Bobby Fisher was crazy. Lol
What Magnus did was childish, Just saying!
27:55 I agree with that statement, but that's normal on sports a bad call from a referee or a player diving etc creates a negative consequence on their opponent for the rest of the qualifiers/tournament etc. That's why they should be reprimanded and/or expelled from tournaments if they get caught more than once.
Football would be an infinitely better sport if they retrospectively banned players for cheating
@@unclegoon347 couldn't agree more, sometimes it's just a soap opera
Danny Rensch indirectly already said why they are so nice to cheaters in one of his messages with Dlugy: They want ALL the best chess players in the world to play on their site, they want the monopole. If GMs would go to the rivals like Lichess, its bad for them in the long run.
Well yeah obviously, it is a business.
This is why it needs to be more public, so cheaters can't get away with it on other sites either.
The 360p video quality is a giga chad move by Hikaru to showcase his own 360 on his views about Hans
Hikaru your stock rant was one of the most incomprehensible statement I’ve ever heard.
They still offer a way back for Hans? After he cheated 100+ times? What the hell is wrong with them, seriously?
because it was in the past and they didn't care until their new business partner had a tantrum. Now they realise how how straight forwardly obvious it is that their actions are just protecting their business partner and want to try to look good.
@@MrPatchtkennedy your statement implies the deal with Magnus would have fallen if they didn't do what they did, hans has been banned from the site a number of times pre magnus,
@@vincentfrimpong4665 no it doesn't haha. It's explicitly states what it states, that chesscom changed their position after their business partner had a tantrum. There's no implication about why at all.
Yep, same reason they only expose a small amount of the cheaters and their entire system is a black box and we are just supposed to take their word for it
@@MrPatchtkennedy Actually it was because Hans made his statement, but ok. That's like saying you made this stupid comment because your mother gave birth to you (unfortunately). Yes, but no.
I'm a strong believer in redemption, but not in the case of cheating in chess. for two reasons:
1) cheating in chess isn't like cheating in, say, baseball. In baseball the player is only given an advantage by cheating; he still has to hit to ball, throw the pitch, make the catch, etc. In chess, the engine is doing all the work, the player is utterly irrelevant. The competition isn't just undermined, it's annihilated.
2) Telling a cheater they were caught effectively informs them of what 'slip up' they made to get caught. Essentially it's training them to become better cheaters. They now know where the line is, they know what they have to do to avoid getting caught, making it much harder to catch them a second time (the fact Hans was caught so many times is indicative of just what a pathological cheater he is)
also he completely shat on his chance of redemption
Terrible take
People can cheat in less extreme ways ie only using engine for 2 moves etc
It depends on the manner of cheating in chess. For example, see Hikaru's interview clip Lex Friedman just posted where Hikaru says all he'd need is a single "buzz" (of some beads, for example) to alert him that there is "one move" to make in the current position. No info on which move, which piece, where to move it, etc... all he'd need to to be alerted that there is "a" move the leads to significant advantage and that would be enough for him to invest the time to find it and he'd be unstoppable. You or I given the same "buzz" in the same position and we'd still lose.
@@andrewg2032 found the stockfish enjoyer
I like what Magnus did for chess. He is in a unique position to not have to tiptoe around with what he says. His reputation cannot be damaged.
Any other chess player making accusations could affect their career in the sport. Magnus literally couldn't care less.
Magnus lost a game and acted like a bitch
Hope Hans sues the pants off him, he's behaving like a fuckwit
This comment didn't age well
Not defending Hans, Maxim or Petrosian, but Chesscom including sarcastic statements such as "Yeah lawyers, why did we have to use the word likely"... "regardless of any p... in any pampers", albeit funny, doesn't seem to show the maturity and professionalism you would expect from a professional organization of its stature.
This controversy has given more publicity to chess. If anything, Magnus should withdraw from the deal and hold out for more money.
What is bull is they need to out ALL the cheaters! Just putting a 19 year old seems unfair.
Agreed. Magnus is too influential.
Hans was give. So many chances because:
Danny is so nice
Hans was so young
Hans is pretty clearly a compulsive liar, and pretty good at it. They probably lying believed his lies about how sorry he was, and all that.
My mom's the same way. Love her but she's too nice sometimes.
If they don't have a uniform policy for disciplining cheaters, titled or not, then they are incompetent. In fact, they should have higher standards and stricter punishment for titled players, if anything.
And they should have cheater reciprocity with FIDE.
Coming from professional athletics: Chess is about 50 years behind when it comes to cheating; privately punishing cheaters based on their biases, such as letting someone continue to play and likely cheat because of their contribution to the chess community historically?! Y'all are acting like this isn't even a problem. Total amateur hour in the chess world.
Love that the scandal brought me back to chess after not playing for over 25 years. Not complaining about the drama, it's fun admittedly.
100% accurate. The only substantially good thing about this drama is the energized focus on cheating and security that has ensued.
I realized this hasn't even finished HD processing
Just got to 360p
Chess is real
The speaks for itself speaks for itself.
Magnus is very good at magnussing
He will be like "its magnus time" and then start magnusing his pieces all over you
Where the brain at?
Take a drink every time he said “fair enough”
i don't feel so good mr stark
Fair enough
buuuurp
Y’all can’t even drink yet
Oh man. Can't wait for the video when Hikaru sees the 100 million dollar law suit.
I thought this was that video.
I dont think Hikaru suit will stick.
Malice is incredibly hard to prove in a U.S. court.
Magnus on the other hand probably checks all the boxes
how big is your lawyer's retainer?
what a VIBRANT article!
“For itself” - The Chess
(The chess is speaking for itself)
Underrated comment
Lmfao
Only ways stopping Hans from cheating, is either stopping him from playing or making it 100% impossible for him to cheat.
He has proven that he is very willing to cheat if he can avoid being caught cheating or avoid punishment for it.
careful, you might encounter a bunch of idiots who say punishment is overrated those are for losers cheating its fine as long as its online, I love anal beads in my ass🤡
@darknightoftroy he didn't mislead people, he said Hans has cheated online in the past, and that is true, there is no lie there, even Hans admitted it.
@darknightoftroy to be fair, Hans was give a lot of chances but he showed that he indeed was willing to cheat again and again which is a reasonable reason to suspect someone, and Hans did kinda cheat his way into his career so he should take all the crap he's getting now, when you cheat once, you put a permanent label on your forehead, and that's not a bad thing, that's just how it works, for example (not saying Hans is a criminal), someone murdered a whole family, he goes to prison, he regrets his mistake, he's now free, guess what? Society is forever gonna label him a criminal. Hans cheated not only once but multiple times while getting bans after bans after bans, the chess community will be more than inclined to label him a chess cheater permanently, he did that, young or not, actions have consequences, besides 16? Seriously? He didn't know the consequences of cheating, and he's 16 at that time? Wha- that's not a youngster, that's a grown ass guy who knows what he's doing, Hans deserves the shit he's getting, he should man up and take it
@darknightoftroy sorry if I was misunderstood, I was exaggerating.
"Speaks for itself" speaks for itself
The fact that Chesscom is *still* looking to give Hans another chance after over 100 instances of cheating on their platform including several events is absolutely ridiculous. Hans should never be allowed on Chesscom again.
If Hans were a prodigy NOT from the United States, would the American online chess platform have been as lenient after so many offenses?!
smh some comments are just insane. People... once a cheater (twice caught, hundred times cheater), always a cheater.
"an assassin killed more than 100 people BUT IT WAS IN THE PAST...! what makes you think he will do it again?"
It's online chess a for profit company no one really cares
"I was a vegetarian in my teens, this means that now when i eat meat, i'm still a vegetarian"
Video quality speaks for itself..
In 1997: Deep Blue cheated cuz it had human intervention on certain moves.
2022: The human cheated cuz he had engine intervention on certain moves
I can't seem to get above 1250, where did Hans get his beads?
He got them further than you are prepared to go...!
Just train at Dlugy and you will receive stainless beads
Politely disagree on treating children with the same harshness with regards to anything. They are learning, that's the point of childhood to become a good adult. You can't expect someone to learn without the ability to make at least a mistake once. Many forget that chess masters are so young and haven't had the time to learn the world they live in while focusing on chess itself. Hans is still but a child here. While I do not condone cheating, it makes sense to be lenient here to allow growth. We each can do better to help everyone.
The commentary on the opinions on the speculation on chess speaks for itself.
the comment on the commentary on the opinions on the speculation on chess speaks for itself
Why so many brainwashed brainless comments?
Just want to point out that the article does not state there were cases of cheating in the RCC qualifiers. They say that there was no cheating in the actual tournaments, but that there was some cheating in the qualifiers. That does not mean there was cheating in the qualifiers of all three tournaments.
Lol, I got into chess JUST before the Hans-Magnus stuff NOT because of it... No one will ever believe me!
well if they publicly ban players, more players will object to the detection methodology,
and that might open up a series of controversies that could undermine the chess world
as it is currently configured. even if they are quite accurate in determining cheaters, it's
not good for business to shine a spotlight on it.
This is a magnusificent update
>.>
tldr; we were super nervous people would find out that online chess cheating is rampant and we've been covering it up out of fear for a long time
Hikaru: I know the stock is going to 140
Me: Looks up the stock
Me: See's its only 116
Me: Making my limit order
Hikaru: and to be clear I dont have a position
*sad noises*
Seems fishy that He would know that 140 would be a big plus though... ;-)
@@eragonshurtugal4239 yea I agree he definitely cheats. Possibly even more than Hans
The lawsuit speaks for itself
4:44 "smorsgabord" is how I'm gonna say it from now on too
Gotham and hikaru upload at same time, what an event
Kkkkkkk
12 year boys' cup runneth over
Chesscom's position is so mediocre. They are trying so hard to be with everyone and support everything that it looks like they don't know anything and don't understand the situation at all. Magnus shows you the depth in 20 words and they are empty with thousands in this article.
The back pedaling is epic.
@mister kluge wrong all excuses, these chess children are literally terrified of Magnus. They would never tell the truth Magnus got them wrapped around his pawn.
Yeah I unsubbed because of the way Hikaru handled this situation. Magnus was wrong to accuse Hans of cheating all because he got his ass kicked.
@@connoryork6631 deadass Hans is just Hans everyone he verses can’t handle him, have you seen Hans vs Sam? Sam couldn’t handle Hans so Sam picked up Han’s king while it was Hans turn then broke it and threw it across the board. It’s mental Hans must have some crazy chess powers to be doing these things.
I can find the best move in a lot of positions. The problem is I don't know why it is best and or what to do to follow it up.
Why is Hans still playing? In any other esports you get banned for cheating
Cause he cheated online.
The appeal to the lawsuit will speak for itself
hikaru the master of of saying everything and nothing.
The fact that he's still milking this cheating scandal for views and saying absolutely nothing of value just shows how trash Hikaru is as a RUclipsr and how low he'll stoop for the next wave of ad revenue. Fucking let it go.
Thank you
If you want a complete mindfuck, go back and read chat during the video. I can't believe people like that actually exist.
Chess people are amazing. Everything they say has to make reference to a long chain of hypothetical decisions.
Maxim Dlugy just continues to incriminate himself with his own strange rants. To suggest that cheating online is not as bad as OTB cheating really sums up his thought process. Of course he is a victim just like dear Hans.
Danny and Erik are just the most wholesome people. Dudes just wanna play chess fair and square
They are probably a little too nice about punishments with cheating, and that's kind-of a problem.
100M $ hikaru....
Why is everyone interested when Magnus pulls a Magnus but when I pull out my BlindBishop everyone is shocked 😒😒
Pretty clear Hans did not cheat otb. Enjoy your lawsuit.
I liked the part where Magnus said "it's maggin' time" and magged all over the board.
Is... Is that a Holostars reference?
@@DeadAccount40268 Morbius, a movie
@@Nobody-Nowhere-Nothing I thought that was "Morbing time", not "Magging time"
Witch Witch Witch Witch Burn the Witch Burn the Witch Burn the Witch, my cows milk went sour. Magnus went sour.
I thought our society had progressed to a rule of law and evidence in a court of law.
Then let that body of evidence prove malicious intent in statements presented as facts by the defendants
It will be tested as a law suit has been raised. How much more malicious can one get than attempted destruction of a mans career? FWIW who exactly do you see are the defendants?
It feels like the more evidence comes out, the more people in chat and comments there are supporting Hans.... This society we live in is wild.
Moral of the story dont admitt your cheating
As it stands now, everyone sees that being a cheater will lead to hordes of people rush to defend you. Particularly, those that identify with you (in this case incels, weirdos, creeps, stalkers).
I think their arguments stands on these 12 pillars:
1: punishing someone for cheating shouldn't be done, it is really mean 😭😭
2: I love anal beads
3: it's ok, it's just online anyways
4: Magnus cheated 😈
5: I love it when the beads vibrate hard
6: don't make my inner demons come out
7: these anal beads are amazing I'm almost there!
8: I can feel the IQ coming inside me!
9: get a life lol
10: Hans is a baby he's so young he doesn't know what he's doing uwu, he's still learning y'know,
11: Magnus is world champion and that's not ok!
12: yuck it has shit all over it 🤮
so apparently it's a crime to defend people who get accused without evidence?
New rule- "If you touch a piece and don't move it , touch another piece your hand gets cut off." At least you still have another hand to continue play, less you pass out from blood lost and can't continue. Second chances are allowed and third chances also if second hand lost. Thust proceeding play with mouth if willingness to do so. Same applies to 'touch' rules or of the rather cheating. If continued cheating "Off with their head"! A countdown timer from 10-0 will proceed. If one's spirit may return through sheer willness. Upon the count of 0 Resignation through unable to continue.
I came here to practice my English, nothing like a native reading an article to improve your pronunciation
They left out how many are asking about "beads" 🤣😂🤣
Dani Isa good person, can't blame them for giving chances, we blame the rule breakers
we can blame him for changing his mind after his business partner threw a tantrum though.
@@MrPatchtkennedy And blame him for not releasing the names of the many other titled cheaters that their business partner did not through a tantrum over.
He created this problem also he shit on hans after the period when he was reformed in theory all the information about hans is old nothing new happens outside beating magnus
*Nobody should feel sorry for a known cheaters. Any repercussions are their own doing.*
People who cheat more than once should be kicked off the platform. This isn't rocket science. The fact that they still want to give Hans another chance is pure idiocy.
What about the 100 odd other titled players they caught cheating, inclyding GM's ? They got second chances plus anonymity.
@@vlnow Fuck them too, who cares.
Hans would be breaking some new levels of stimulation reading this post
For those still confused about the Hans/Magnus game section and OTB activity:
1) They are not experts in OTB chess and their high quality cheat detection system is really for online chess.
2) However, they still can use statistical probabilities to determine how unusual Hans behavior and rise has been. They have done that and clearly say and show that it was highly unusual and the OTB events noted need follow-up.
3) They just said in the answer before that the language they have to use is limited by lawyers. They are saying their statistical analysis pointed towards something being up, but they can’t say likely or very likely, as OTB is not their expertise.
So basically they’re saying Hans is an outlier and anomaly, which is pretty suspicious given the circumstances, but they are not the experts on it so they can’t say more than that. They can’t conclude with a definite opinion.
So there is no prove, zero evidente, just Magnus insinuations.
Who else is still waiting for Hikaru to come back from the restroom?
My dog’s favourite toy is a plush elf and its elf speaks for itself.
I’m so fucking tired of the “blank speaks for itself” comments
Your comment speaks for you
15:15 i don't think its legalese its more accurate to say likely, like they said even a chance of 99.99% is still "likely" or "most likely". with probabilities there is very rarely 100% or 0% the case.
Just like they say for paternity/DNA tests.
Magnus should use pictures of the Icelandic 4-time world’s strongest man champ: Magnus Ver Magnusson. Now THAT was a cool name!
Hikaru: consider using photos of Ver Magnusson in ur thumbnails!
Ah yes, the iconic "sink filled" cup.
Hahaha He don't smile anymore now that he's being sue by Hans
Younger players deserve to be treated the same as adults. When I was 10+ I knew right from wrong so you cant keep using the "he was under 18" as an argument. Kids know damn well what they are doing is wrong and they continue to do it and get away with it because they never get held accountable for their actions.
Its common for fighters who make big payrolls to lose the hunger and fall off. It would be sad if the Play Magnus Sale messes up his play moving forward