The Case For Power Creep in Pokémon

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  • Опубликовано: 23 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 92

  • @InsertFunnyThingHere
    @InsertFunnyThingHere 3 часа назад +119

    People shit on the signature move spam and like i get it, but also I'd much rather have a bunch of polemon with wacky unique moves over "this guy is the exact same as last guy but he's slightly more minmaxed and has like one extra good move"

    • @edgargaebolg9307
      @edgargaebolg9307 2 часа назад +8

      I mean sure, but older Pokemon end up being more uninteresting because they don't get anything unless there's a regional or a cross-evo form

    • @InsertFunnyThingHere
      @InsertFunnyThingHere 2 часа назад +8

      @edgargaebolg9307 gamefreak really should do the gen 5-7 guimmick again of giving broken non-signature moves to random underpowered and forgotten pokemon (and then to like one new strong pokemon to just take the piss)

    • @bathilra5364
      @bathilra5364 2 часа назад +2

      I agree i think signature moves are great like at the least for this generation this pokeom will be the ONLY ONE with this move, which lets it do something no other pokemon can giving you a reason to use this new pokemon over an old one that fills the same role.

    • @J0NU5
      @J0NU5 2 часа назад

      I've actually been playing with the idea of making a romhack where every mon in the regional dex (not the national dex) where every mon gets a signature move but idk if people would find that excesive or interesting enough

    • @zoeygeorge2403
      @zoeygeorge2403 Час назад +2

      ​@@edgargaebolg9307 Simple solution: give more signature moves to old Pokemon. Pokemon that aren't Mr Cheeks or Snorlax perhaps.

  • @videakias3000
    @videakias3000 3 часа назад +59

    I hope false swipe gaming will do "how GOOD was base 100 speed ACTUALLY".
    He did say that this speed tier could have its own video back when he was talking about charizard.
    this speed isn't as good as it used anymore.
    I think that 120 is the new 100.

    • @mcgreenboy-k8e
      @mcgreenboy-k8e Час назад

      well 120 is still a bit high though, but if you do count these brocken 135 speed mons in gen 9 then yeh, maybe 120

    • @jacksonbranby
      @jacksonbranby Час назад +2

      Definitely yeah, i would say 110 personally, since its the speed of Ogerpon, Iron Moth, the Latis, and MegaDiancie - then the real speed demons lie just past that, with Val at 116, Moon and Ace at 119, Sneasler at 120, and Gren/Meow/TornT/Noivern/Boulder/Weavile just past the 120 barrier
      There’s a reason Walking Wake feels almost slow at 109 outside of SunBooster

    • @videakias3000
      @videakias3000 56 минут назад +1

      @@jacksonbranby nah, if 110 was good enough then gengar would have a niche in OU.

  • @ShakerSilver
    @ShakerSilver 2 часа назад +25

    Something left unexamined is the impact this power creep can have on the options you have to play with. New strong pokemon can be interesting, but it's more interesting when it increases the options you have rather reducing them by overshadowing them.

  • @MustafaZincir-r5c
    @MustafaZincir-r5c 3 часа назад +77

    I don't like when old Pokémon get completely outclassed by power creep. It feels unnecessary.

    • @spielezer126
      @spielezer126 3 часа назад +5

      Arcanine was completely replaced by Incineroar. It's sad the cat is just better in every aspect than the dog.

    • @QuizzicalQuaquaval
      @QuizzicalQuaquaval 2 часа назад +17

      If older Pokemon weren’t ever outclassed, we’d still be seeing Tauros almost 30 years later, it’d get boring pretty quickly

    • @jinnizi
      @jinnizi 2 часа назад +5

      @@QuizzicalQuaquaval 4 more years of urshifu baby wooooooooo

    • @theweirdduckduck
      @theweirdduckduck 2 часа назад +6

      ​@@jinnizi @QuizzicalQuaquaval see that's the thing. both of you have a point. game freak needs to find a balance between making the competitive scene boring by keeping all the old mons just as relevant as the new ones and designing broken mons that will ALWAYS be relevant. its very easy to find examples of the latter (urshifu in doubles, kingambit in singles) but a good example of the former would prolly be gen 6 (both formats). literally none of the new gen 6 mons were that good, probably bc of the megas.

    • @MustafaZincir-r5c
      @MustafaZincir-r5c Час назад

      @@QuizzicalQuaquaval Do you mean just seeing touros in battle?

  • @flareblitz198
    @flareblitz198 Час назад +8

    I personally think small buffs to older pokemon over time could help combat power creep. An example of this is Electrode getting 10 extra speed points in Gen 7

  • @Moakmeister
    @Moakmeister Час назад +7

    I just wish that old Pokemon would get incremental buffs to keep them relevant. Like if Garchomp ever became bad, they’d give it Dragon Dance.

  • @jinnizi
    @jinnizi 2 часа назад +10

    Oh yeah I'm definitely on board with gen 10 introducing a fighting/fairy urshifu variant with unblockable, guaranteed, hit 100% crit fairy move with a bunch of returning mons from gens 1-8 that only youtubers will use on ladder for their thumbnails now. i honestly never thought it of it THAT way before😲😲

  • @G1eatShad0w
    @G1eatShad0w 2 часа назад +16

    I honestly think ability‘s are the biggest factor in power creep. Yes, stats are getting more min maxed and moves are becoming more generally powerful but with these things you can only push the numbers so far. Ability‘s basically let you say „I want this pokemon to whatever I want“ and that’s kind of what they’ve been doing. People talk about Mewtwo having below average typing and stats for a modern restricted and that’s true but it also has… pressure. For a nother example look at how much worse Zacian got upon having it’s ability nerved. The -20 attack isn’t what did it in, it’s the fact intrepid sword is only once per battle. Ability‘s are becoming more and more important and yes, more creative too. If you wanted to buff old pokemon better ability‘s wouldn’t be the only thing many of them need but it would be a very good starting point.

    • @noelvazquez3957
      @noelvazquez3957 2 часа назад +2

      That's a good point, like how Torkoal and Peppiler got a massive buff by getting weather setting abilites.

  • @T.W.0
    @T.W.0 8 дней назад +43

    The fact that moves get better on average is mostly because GameFreak doesn’t introduce as many wide spread new moves anymore and new moves are usually Signature Moves who are meant to be stronger and special.
    Also Power Creep did Scorvillain dirty. Poor fella couldn’t even hold his unique type combo for one generation…

  • @abopo1731
    @abopo1731 2 часа назад +39

    You made some good points, and I liked the graphs. But, saying that releasing average strength Pokemon is bad marketing is a very weak argument. I don't think anyone has bought a Pokemon game because they heard the new legendary is OP. Casuals buy the games because they love Pokemon, and competitors buy the games because tournaments are held in the newest game. The relative strength of the new Pokemon is irrelevant to sales imo.

    • @aquba
      @aquba 2 часа назад +1

      I agree

    • @GrandHac
      @GrandHac Час назад +2

      Casuals aren’t mindless drones that just buy Pokémon game because of cool animals. If ever noticed the most used Pokemon in a play through, you’ll see they use good competitive Pokemon too. In Gen 4 Lucario, Staraptor, Garchomp, and Infernape are all popular casually and all insanely good in Gen 4 competitive.

    •  Час назад +3

      ​@@GrandHacstarter, gift- and early route Pokémon are understandable to stick with. Garchomp is one you have to go out of your way to get, though, I will give you that.

    • @pinktwinkiconic
      @pinktwinkiconic 28 минут назад

      Yeah i usually like the takes on this channel but this one was a miss. kinda just feels like he’s trying to be contrarian

  • @videakias3000
    @videakias3000 2 часа назад +9

    saying that gholdengo is balanced is a controversial opinion.
    while this pokemon wasn't banned in smogon some players considered it ban worthy.
    in the past generations defog was the most reliable way to remove hazards, the only counterplay was to taunt the defoger.
    now gholdengo blocks this move thanks to its ability while also blocking rapid spin and the newly introduced mortal spin.
    it is not by any means a "broken" pokemon ,but you it is slightly unbalanced.

    • @theweirdduckduck
      @theweirdduckduck 2 часа назад +1

      it may have been tough to counter in early S/V but calling it unbalanced is just an outdated opinion

  • @nicolasromani3523
    @nicolasromani3523 3 часа назад +13

    Honestly my problem is not with the new Pokémon with minmaxed stats and ridiculous abilities. It's with the broken new moves that older mons don't get access to.
    Fishious Rend, Rage Fist, Last Respects, Population Bomb, Lumina Crash, Jet Punch, Ivy Cudgel, Wicked Blow and Surging Strikes are crimes against humanity and throw any semblance of balance out the window.

    • @iantaakalla8180
      @iantaakalla8180 Час назад

      You would think Pokémon like Seaking, known for spamming Horn Drill, would get Fishious Rend, which is effectively an OHKO move. Even thematically, it does not make sense.

    • @browserjunior4707
      @browserjunior4707 Минуту назад

      @@iantaakalla8180that’s because Fishious Rend is technically an inaccurate translation. The move is called “Gill Bite” in Japan, and Seaking doesn’t really bite with its gills

  • @MrLucasmatta
    @MrLucasmatta 2 часа назад +8

    I think it's funny how most of the bad power creeps are done by legendaries/mythical/paradox, since they are kinda supposed to be stronger than the average Pokémon. Maybe they were balanced around their limited accessibility on the main campaign and not around their competitive prowess? Idk

    • @pn2294
      @pn2294 Час назад +1

      Makes sense
      You typically can’t catch a legendary until you have six badges.

  • @Aurora-kn9fu
    @Aurora-kn9fu 2 часа назад +6

    Then there is arceus the most balanced,
    no difference between attacking and defending stats
    No stat over 140
    No Broken ability that destroys part of the game like ignoring status
    And also needs to hold an item to change forms

  • @typemasters2871
    @typemasters2871 Час назад +4

    Honestly, my only gripe with power creep is how it makes some Pokemon “old Pokemon but better”
    But if power creep has to exist then there are two things that I want to see continue or see more of
    1. Make sure some of the Pokemon in a generation are intentionally bad, have their appeal be their design or a niche combination of type, ability, and move pool
    2. Buff older Pokemon with new moves, abilities, and possibly increased BST to make sure they don’t just become weaker versions of new Pokemon
    Also I think keeping most of the power creep to legendaries, mythicals, and other group categories (Ultra Beasts and Paradox Pokemon) is a good idea, one reason being that it creates a divide for players who don’t want to mess with power creep and another reason being that the real world isn’t all “Canada has stronger animals because it was founded after America”

  • @Au_Solar_Eclipse_Au
    @Au_Solar_Eclipse_Au Час назад +2

    Personally I don't think power creep is bad per se, but it requires to be balanced.
    If a Pokémon that is very strong is introduced, then previous Pokémon must receive buffs that are of a similar power level to that new Pokémon.
    I personally think that Game Freak is a coward for refusing to do large changes. Pokémon like Altaria and Absol should've been part-Fairy, but Game Freak refuses to give them that because it fears change. Pokémon like Zangoose should've been much faster, but Game Freak refuses to give them that. Swampert should've had Regenerator, but Game Freak refuses to give it that. Iron Fist should've boosted Punch-based Moves by 1.5x, and Close Combat should be classified as a Punch-based Move. The type chart should be completely overhauled.
    Old Pokémon should receive generational buffs, and what Game Freak is currently doing is not nearly enough.
    Smogon should also create much more tiers, like the Pokémon Perfect system.

  • @whyareyoulookingatthis236
    @whyareyoulookingatthis236 25 минут назад

    Another banger vid, identifies the idea very clearly, clarifies stance, and then intelligently outlines outliers. You make some of my favorite content, I love your vids

  • @KVO723
    @KVO723 16 минут назад +1

    Hey here’s me leaving a nice comment. Great video 👍

  • @CanadianOreoable
    @CanadianOreoable 42 минуты назад

    One concept that I appreciate in relation to power creep is complexity creep whereby new pokemon aren't necessarily stronger through pure stats/moves/abilities but rather encourage creative use of their strengths and efforts to dimish weaknesses. The two that come to mind are perish trap teams and Weezing's neutralizing gas ability. These teams can be very strong, but notably require players to think about the game on different axes and adapt to uncommon situations. This is the kind of power creep I really like, and seems to be encouraged in rulesets like Regulation H.

  • @vamshidaren9649
    @vamshidaren9649 3 часа назад +3

    BRANCH POKE MENTIONED LETSS GOOOO

  • @Subatomicfish
    @Subatomicfish 2 часа назад +2

    I’m just salty that they decided that THIS was the gen they were going to pull back on the base stats of bugs. Lokix deserves better. It’s amazing what they can do despite their relatively low BST, but it definitely still holds them back

  • @hylianzeldafan
    @hylianzeldafan Час назад +2

    All 4 of the "good power creep" mons I think are examples of how ridiculous it's become. Zamazenta's speed is way too high, but it's a legendary so we can allow it.
    Rillaboom just took Bulu, who was already good, and got buffed in basically every way needed with it's move pool making it superb for doubles, and then the nonsense of grassy glide.
    Ogerpon overall I think is healthy until Tera is mentioned, although having a redirector who is that effective offensively feels a little iffy.
    Gholdengo in doubles feels somewhat ok. In singles, it's presence basically makes boots mandatory for a lot of mons.
    I think another way of viewing it is how few outright bad Pokémon we're getting, which I feel is a benefit of power creep, but it raises the floor so the ceiling can be so much higher

  • @TheDelybird
    @TheDelybird 36 минут назад

    Gotta hard agree with Ogerpon being a well done version of power creep. It's role compression is also next level with follow me and different forms, but still feels fair.
    Love the sports comparison even though I do not follow sports much it makes sense!

  • @Ribombastic
    @Ribombastic 2 часа назад +1

    Good video. I hesitate to consider Gholdengo very balanced, but I do agree it has its shortcomings that prevent it from being on the same level as the likes of Flutter Mane and Urshifu. Probably the worst thing about Flutter is that it sort of puts other special attacking ghosts and fairies out of a job - Iron Valiant's only managed to get usage in VGC for its support movepool and Enamorus is more or less MIA (though the all-around frailty of Valiant and Enam-I is certainly part of why they struggle to see much use in VGC, not to mention Enam's AWFUL availability in-game).
    I do think power creep is a good thing, when done right of course. With no power creep or new mechanics being introduced on a generational basis, I feel like generations would get too samey and the game would really stagnate after a while. Sure, Tyranitar is cool and all but do we really need it to dominate metagames generation after generation? That's not to say it and other strong Pokémon of past gens should be rendered totally worthless after a certain point (I'm a proponent of buffing old Pokémon more than nerfing newer ones), but new arrivals deserve their time in the spotlight as well and we shouldn't have too many old Pokémon take away from this if you ask me.
    Maybe GF will find a better balance come gen 10, but no matter what may happen, people should accept that power creep is inevitable and that the next gen will introduce Pokémon that will most likely push older ones out of relevance, including some gen 9 mons.

  • @afamobi93
    @afamobi93 Час назад

    To counter the min maxxing there should be a move/item/ability that forces an attacker to use their weaker offensive stat. Adds some incentive to keep mixed attackers around.

  • @MrPC1121
    @MrPC1121 47 минут назад

    I'd like to see the stats/moves/abilities of all previous generations buffed appropriately to make previous gen pokemon relevant.

  • @richardqustmrk
    @richardqustmrk 2 часа назад +2

    I hope we get mega babe ruth in legends za, he could use the buff.

  • @juanvn
    @juanvn 8 дней назад +3

    ooh damn banger vid, keep up the good work

  • @underthedice1231
    @underthedice1231 Час назад +1

    On inflation:
    No amount is bad.
    What actually matters is it's predictability.
    What level of inflation you want in an economy is a difficult question that is based on political choices. But no matter what the target is, the important part is to have low fluctuations.
    A given economy with a regular target of 8% would be in shambles if it dropped to 2%.

  • @VerbalLearning
    @VerbalLearning 34 минуты назад

    i've been thinking about min maxing recently and was wondering if rather than trying to look at each pokemon individually you look at the different roles pokemon are commonly used for in competitive singles/doubles and compare each pokemons stats to a hypothetical ideal stat distribution of their role/roles. So for example, you'd look at the role of "Physical Wall" or "Special Setup Sweeper" or "Hazard Setter" or "Support Pokemon" and figure out what an ideal stat distribution for these roles would look like (maybe there'd be some variance based on typing) and then you look at existing pokemon that fit these roles and see how well their stats (or more importantly stat distribution) compares to this ideal number (in terms of % of stats allocated, not raw numbers). I feel like this would not only help us figure out how good old vs new pokemon are and get a better sense of the level of power creep in pokemon but i also think it'd help us figure out how new pokemon (when for example gen 10 or Legends A-Z comes out) will perform and which role they might best be suited for by comparing and contrasting their numbers to these hypothetical ideals.

  • @sillygoose0724
    @sillygoose0724 Час назад

    Pokemon should have a mechanic that is meant to entice mixed attackers and benefit them. I think, maybe increasing the critical hit chance on moves hit in a Pokémon weaker defense stat and decreasing critical hits when hitting a Pokémon on the stronger defense stat is the start of an idea.

  • @dumbnfreshh
    @dumbnfreshh Час назад

    yeah, i can generally agree with most of the points. like, yeah, everything in moderation. wanna eat that absolute monstrosity of a dessert with a thousand layers of chocolate ice cream? go on, just do it in moderation; wanna go out with the boys and get hammered as hell? sure! you do that, just in moderation. likewise with powercreep-you wanna add this crazy strong monstrosity that'll wipe another Pokemon's relevancy out of existence? sure, go ahead! just make sure you don't go crazy and decide, "hmm... i think i wanna put 255 attack and speed... and then give it a drawback-less Hyper Beam."

  • @implying8903
    @implying8903 Час назад +1

    The base stats at the start are not that useful because each generation has a different amount of strong pokemon. It's possible that the general power level didn't go up, we just got gradually more disproportionately strong pokemon.

  • @e94youtube
    @e94youtube Час назад

    An informative video as always. Btw imagine if we get a special version of Unseen fist in the future

  • @shaheerjazbhay1717
    @shaheerjazbhay1717 Час назад

    I hope this leads to many people searching pokemon inflation

  • @DabkingCow
    @DabkingCow 2 часа назад +1

    Mike Tyson and Jake Paul 💀

  • @Thund3rDrag0n12
    @Thund3rDrag0n12 Час назад

    6:26 I mean... yes they can. Usually when a game has a massive mechanical overhaul they'll also rework some older characters so they can make better use of those new mechanics. There's no reason why GameFreak can't do something similar (more than the 10-20 point base stat changes they did in Gen 7)

  • @krabsolfurretisme
    @krabsolfurretisme 8 дней назад +2

    HELL YEAH LETS GOOO

  • @popando
    @popando 6 дней назад +10

    i really don't know much about pokemon, nothing about their stats, but i love your videos and find them oddly relaxing

  • @krabsolfurretisme
    @krabsolfurretisme Час назад

    hey that's me in the video

  • @vojtech_ledvinka
    @vojtech_ledvinka 8 дней назад +7

    Great video! Love it! I think that game freak should nerf urshifu and calyrex

    • @krabsolfurretisme
      @krabsolfurretisme 8 дней назад

      @@vojtech_ledvinka but who will dominate AG now ?

    • @vojtech_ledvinka
      @vojtech_ledvinka 8 дней назад

      @krabsolfurretisme In my opinion, a nerf like Zacian is too much, in my opinion it should only be a smaller nerf, such as a smaller BP of signature move and maybe 165 atk/sp. reduce atk to 150

    • @theweirdduckduck
      @theweirdduckduck 2 часа назад

      if it wasn't for the fluctuating punctuation, i'd have thought this was a bot 😭 apologies but i had to get that out there

  • @fortello7219
    @fortello7219 41 минуту назад

    I really wish your data also excluded restricted Pokemon. They scew the data by quite a bit. Usually they're primarily compared to each other, and in generations where there are more of them than others (because they tend to have the same BSTs) it more heavily favors that generation.

  • @gardevoid8412
    @gardevoid8412 2 часа назад

    Aw man, I dunno. I feel as though Gholdengo is pretty egregious when you take everything about it into account but idk

  • @King-lt5yw
    @King-lt5yw 2 часа назад +2

    13:51 Agree to disagree, have you seen Gholdengo in singles? Well, you should look for yourself

  • @Hcr2pro
    @Hcr2pro Час назад

    Bro mentions calyrex and urshifu but forgot abt zacian, koraidon and miraidon?😅

  • @thefrogchamp600
    @thefrogchamp600 2 часа назад +4

    I’d be fine with power creep if old pokemon didn’t get completely wiped from relevancy. Regigigas literally has a lower number in every single stat except hp when compared to zacian crowned. Regigigas shouldn’t be weaker than a dog dawg

  • @anonimen31
    @anonimen31 Час назад

    Good stuff

  • @theweirdduckduck
    @theweirdduckduck 2 часа назад +3

    the saddest thing about this is that the competitive scene will never be top priority for game freak/nintendo. unlike games like valorant or apex something something (i don't play many FPSs) pokemon was never designed with the competitive scene in mind, and that results in an inherently unbalanced game as they try to market to casual players and design mons around obtainability in a casual playthrough.

    • @Overlordbb8
      @Overlordbb8 47 минут назад

      I would hope they don’t.. As you said they cater to casuals because that’s the whole point??? Valorant was designed to be a competitive game. And Apex constantly drives away its competitive scene. But Pokemon is designed for children. Who don’t care about balance, they just want to play a fun game. And most don’t play the game for a serious competitive reason, most play to have fun and use their favorite Pokemon.

  • @MugenAeternum
    @MugenAeternum Час назад

    The reason for power creep: money

  • @epser5842
    @epser5842 38 минут назад

    Comparing average stats is a bit utterly pointless. You can have a million garbage pokemon but a couple pokemon that are just better will make everything else irrelevant. That's kind of the entire point of power creep. The new peaks being higher and making the old peaks irrelevant. That's true for all your "averages" comparisons, especially since a lot of moves and such come from effects.

  • @CanadianOreoable
    @CanadianOreoable 55 минут назад

    5:21 pokemon inflation is good 🤨

  • @corey9784
    @corey9784 53 минуты назад

    A nice comment

  • @Rpgreat
    @Rpgreat 2 минуты назад

    This whole video is incorrect... I for one believe gen 1 have a BST of 800.

  • @wrestlingfan836
    @wrestlingfan836 12 минут назад

    Guys I think he dislikes urshifu

  • @christiansamaroo
    @christiansamaroo 2 часа назад +2

    And also Pokémon used to look like creatures in the wild. Now Pokémon look like cartoon characters.

    • @winterwatson6437
      @winterwatson6437 Час назад

      what?

    • @christiansamaroo
      @christiansamaroo Час назад +1

      @ stop playing Pokémon, and please go learn some comprehension skills

    • @KnightofChaosDeck
      @KnightofChaosDeck Час назад +4

      Ah yes, the bee with stingers on its hands, old man with a pendulum and raging sea serpent as opposed to the pig, parrot and ostrich.
      This has always been a thing.

  • @excalibur2772
    @excalibur2772 12 минут назад

    All you did was explain why power creep is ass actually especially with your ridiculous capitalist economy shit that's actually just bad for the average consumer lol