I like the idea of just giving rock types an accuracy boost in the sandstorm to help cover for their widely inaccurate STAB moves without buffing specific rock type attacks
Tyranitar stocks undoubtedly rise to the moon here: In singles, Stone Edge is amazing STAB AND has high crit chance; in VGC, rock slide will not miss AND has high flinch chance
To be fair it was also the era, where meta didn't change a lot (and that Escavalier year, technically should have gone to Wolfe, if not for the awful misclick), but it's still an extreme accomplishment. Kinda makes you wish they gave the winners more money.
Also barely 58 Pokémon won the Masters division. With most types only having like 3-5 Pokémon (even types like Fire, Ground or Fighting get their values from meta breaking Pokémon like Incineroar, Urshifu and Landorus). SV actually breaking some of the usual trends, by giving us another Normal and another Ice winner.
We've known for ages that rock/ground is trash... defensively. Offensively, it's an incredible combination. What if we actually made a fast offensive rock/ground type?
Agreed, it would be amazing to see, and its long overdue. Everytime i used Rhydon back in the days i thought, "what if this combo was on a mon that wasnt outsped by everything?" Doesn't have to be physical either, that is, if power gem actually had distribution, nobody wants to rely on ancient power.
I straight up do not understand why most rock type moves are low accuracy. Other types have moves that are effectively slinging weapons at their opponent and they are fully accurate. Some I can understand, like rock slide. Since it can flinch and hits spread damage the lower accuracy makes sense. But there should probably be a very common physical rock move that's the equivalent of hitting someone with a column of rock, which would effectively be like ivy cudgel. A simple fully accurate damaging rock type move.
Rock Throw (the basic 40 power rock type move) has 90 accuracy for no reason, and its incredibly depressing. I have no clue why they're so stubborn about this design philosophy.
@@lasercraft32 They lost control of power creep a long long long time ago, and are still swinging sledge hammers trying to "fix" it. I don't need to say more than Fairy Type.
I think that people forget how bad rock types are because Tyranitar, the most iconic of them all, is extremely strong and arguably one of the best mons of all time.
As I've heard it said before "Tyranitar succeeds _in spite_ of its terrible typing, not because of it." The fact that Rock/Dark is arguably one of the worst type combinations is a testament to how busted Tyranitar is more than anything. XD
When you think about it, it’s actually horrifying how many type combinations with the rock type result in x4 weaknesses. Add rock to Ground, Fire, Steel, Ice and you have two quad super effective weaknesses, but there’s also quad weaknesses for water, poison, dark, electric and fairy. What’s even worse is that some of these type combos are very popular choices to be given to Pokémon
@@fishfox Ice too with 4 weaknesses Pair Ice with said Rock, Bug, and even Steel and you get two 4x weaknesses Pair Ice with Grass, Fairy, Flying, Dark, and Normal (no such thing yet) and you still get a 4x weakness alongside multiple weaknesses on top of that Should be grateful it’s weaknesses don’t overlap as much as Rock’s do, same with Grass’ who are saved by it’s 4 redeeming resistances (something that Rock and Ice could only dream of) And Ice doesn’t offer much defensively beyond a Ice resistance either
@@cgyh68748 lore-wise she says she was a Rock type specialist and decided to switch to being a Steel one instead. I'm not sure what Pokemon she used to have though.
@@janthecoo4964 With how many different continuities Pokemon has its entirely possible she was both a steel user since she was a child AND a former rock user, just in different media.
I can't remember the last time I deliberately used a rock type for its qualities. It's a great attacking type but I always forget about it defensively until I use one of those mons that happen to be rock-ground instead of pure ground where I randomly die 3x faster.
Personally I think I’ve used a rock type on like three occasions. Against Falkner and the traded rock type, aggron for its steel type and Gen 5 because there’s alot of actually good Mons that just so happen to be rock types, except Gigalith. I like that one
Rock being a bad type, and yet being so essential to the Pokémon experience (especially classic Pokémon) has hurt me for years. A defensive typing that doesn’t work defensively is just pointless.
I always like really always felt like. Rock is just another normal type. Their attacks are the least cool looking one and cant be really upgraded. Thing is like this. Tackle. Is literally weaker version both literally and gamewise of slam, bodyslam heck even that one move with recoil there are two i believe. And rock is basically that. Throws pebble, throws rocks, throws boulder. All the same. When in anime. Rock is often used as „special“ type. Ie. They use it to counter ranged attacks or airborne. Sometimes fully block the sight of pokemon. But the normal type? Its very often used as a commedic relief. And rarely used as raw strenght move. Like all normal type attacks are kinda just strenght. 😅 So there is for the game like less reason to use these moves or upgrade them, same for anime. Heck we seen ursaring with focus miss in the anime instead of rock type moves.
This is so interesting because last night I was standing at my sink and thought "Rock is a weak defensive type.... how tf are rocks weak to everything? Shouldnt they be literal walls?"
Fighting beats them because martial artists break bricks. Steel beats them because of industrialization and tools like the pickaxe. Ground because all rocks eventually erode and turn to dust, and can even be stripped by sand. Water because rivers and streams wear through the earth to create canyons and can split boulders. Grass because.... I don't know Game Freak was feeling Game Freaky that day.
The problem with the rock type is offensive synergy. Rock is weak to and not effective against 3 types, and not a single other type is super-effective against even 2 of them. Meaning your rock type is getting suppressed by an average of 2 pokemon on the enemy team and there's nothing you can do about it. Ice is much better with electic/ground/water + freeze dry being perfect alongside it.
This is a very interesting point. Nothing is super effective against ground AND steel, or steel AND fighting, or fighting AND ground. Compare this to say, fairy. Where all 3 of the things that resist fairy (2 of which are also super effective against it) are weak to ground. It's hard to help cover rock types counters, while it's easy to cover fairy types. Interesting
Part of the reason the Rock type was so good in Gen 1 is that Normal was the best type in the game at the time, with the three competitively strongest and most mandatory Pokémon in the game (Tauros, Snorlax, and Chansey) all being Normal type. So a type that could resist Body Slam and Hyper Beam was really valuable, even if it had very few offensive options. Fighting type COULD have been great too, since it could hit Normal for supereffective damage, but it had very few defensive options, which was much more of a curse.
My ideas •Lower Stealth Rocks distribution like toxic spikes for poison •Increase accuracy in sand by 30 percent •Immune to stealth rock or half damage to stealth rock •Rock abilities like purifying salt that give resist to other types
wait, rock DOESN'T already resist electric??? great video, shows how certain types get kind of tossed by the wayside as others are built up more and more. hopefully rock/sand and bug are next on the buffing block
No, rock has no reason to resist electricity. Quartz itself has a piezoelectric which can cause it to distort and change shape. Diamond is completely resistant as there’s no free ions or electrons. Iron carries eldctricty good. Calcite doesn’t. It’s just completely depend on what the rock is made of. If anything, it being neutral fits rocks, as whatever the rock is made of helps influence the conductivity of the fock
I think a stealth rock/ entry hazard absorbing ability could be really good. Maybe have it give a defense boost, like it's pulling in the rocks and spikes to cover the mon like a layer of armor.
It's really not a coincidence that Rock started to fall off around the same time Normal did. Back in Gen One and Two, being able to fight Normal-type was a HUGE deal. Nowadays with the Normal-type being really bad, what is there for Rock-types to do that a better type with coverage can't offer? It's sad, but it was destined to fall to power-creep once Game Freak started making types like Fighting, Grass, Ghost, and Fire real types. Steel types getting bettet and better didn't help things along, either.
I think the reason for rock's low accuracy Is that going all the way back to generation 1, it was a type commonly used by enemy trainers and common wild pokémon like rock tunnel and mt moon, and the low accuracy was meant to make those fights easier for the player.
I like the idea of a +1 accuracy boost to rock moves under sandstorm, but make Rock Slide’s flinch chance 10% (the same as Heat Wave’s burn). Stone Edge would become VERY viable on Tyranitar to get through intimidate.
@@joeyno137 "Have accuracy lower for non rock mons hehe" That sounds like it could be very annoying to deal with especially if combined with Sand Veil... though I suppose most Sand Veil pokemon aren't actually rock pokemon but it seems a bit wrong for a pokemon with Sand Veil to have a penalty in Sandstorm
@@JoViljarHaugstulen "though I suppose most Sand Veil pokemon aren't actually rock pokemon but it seems a bit wrong for a pokemon with Sand Veil to have a penalty in Sandstorm" I think this could be balanced by the fact pokemon with Sand Veil, Sand Rush, and whatever the other sandstorm-based abilities were called, those pokemon already ignore the passive damage from Sandstorm. So it would make sense to retroactively buff those abilities by saying "Negates Sandstorm's negative effects on the pokemon with this ability" or something of that sort. A nice buff to all the ground type homies out there, and Houndstone.
0:36 I still say rework the type chart: Ice should at the minimum resist electric making it the only type to stop bolt-beam Steel should be weak to electric
Sandstorm doesn't need to raise rock-type power, but increasing rock-type accuracy and making them all swift-type incapable of missing would help a lot. If other weathers give 50% damage, rock-types can get 50% accuracy added. That would truly make Ttar great again.
Midnight Lycanroc is 1 of my favorite rock type Pokemon with how phenomenal it's attack stat is. The problem is tho it has horrendous speed and unlike it's alternate forms (Dusk & Midday) it doesn't receive a signature move. I was really hoping it would get one in this new gen but after 2/3 games now that is unlikely to happen which sucks.
I’ve always hated the idea that the bug type is the weakest because “they’re just bugs” In the real world bugs are cheating, they’re in a tier of their own in terms of survivability and lethality. Have you ever seen a parasitic wasp reproduce, those things are vile, and other bugs like roaches and horn beetles refuse to die. Don’t even get me started on how bugs are immune to pretty much every poison including insecticide. Pokémon just does bugs dirty and they deserve better.
I mean tbf. The creator of pokemon knows how busted bugs are. And yea sure they are immune but you cant distrubute all buggs immunity, poison type or steel type. Look at volcarona. Its a beast. And the ice type variant ( completly different mon but in bizarro, also a beast on same caliber) Infact its so much known. That most of the good hitters are just slow. Thank god bizarro exist but never uses it. Sherox also slow. But thank god it has two things goin on for him. Technician, stab - priority. Beeing steel help hugely for sure but its just worse then most steels type without these 2. Its weakest type not because of bugs. Its weakest because of busted the real things are.
I think they need to lean more into the fossil and crystal themes, and improve the strategier around rock polish, and the inaccuracy problems of rock moves
The problem with rock is similar to ice in past generations, bad defensive good ofensive type, but most mons of the type are defensive mons. And things like low accuracy moves makes Rock even worse than ice in ofensive mons.
9:53 This is a false premise as there have always been Rock type Pokémon with high attack stats. The first games gave us Rhydon, Golem, Aerodactyl and Kabutops which each have above 100 base attack stats (two of which have high Speed stats as well). In fact, every generation since has added at least 1-2 Pokémon with 100+ Attack. Of the 88* Rock type Pokémon that currently exist, only 8 (just 10% of the group) fit the archetype of "Slow, Bulky and Defensive with LOW attack": - Shuckle - Corsola - Nosepass - Shieldon - Bastiodon - Probopass - Carbink - Minior Cradily actually has higher attack stats than Coalossal (81 > 80 in each ). So idk if that counts as low attack. Pretty much every other Rock Pokemon has either a high Attack or Sp. Attack stat somewhere at or above base 100. So an overwhelming majority of Rock types actually DO have the ability to do a lot of damage.
They really dropped the ball not making Gigalith and Alolan Golem special attacking rock types. Golem I can see an argument for or against, but it being a magnetic railgun I think lends well with a bulky special attacker. As for Gigalith, all of its dex entries describe its mysterious power and strong internal energy. Which both sound like strong special attacking capability to me.
as someone who doesn’t play pokemon competitively but love watching videos about competitive pokemon, seeing literally everyone complain about how busted intimidate is as an ability is so funny
15:45 Maybe it can have the Iron Fists ability, and give Armaldo access to some of those punching attacks? Most notably Mach Punch or Focus Punch, that way it can handle those Steel types like the lore says. It'd be cool to get Ice Punch for coverage as well. Not too strong, but enough to cover the bases in normal play
more rock types should get accelerock, maybe give it to golem beacause he can accelerate like a rolling boulder. also: give armaldo tough claws. kabutops sharpness. aerodactyl brave bird. maybe rock types should get accuracy boost in the sand if they have safety goggles on but only for rock moves. (head smash/stone edge 95acc, 100% accurate rock slide, rock blast gets atleast 4hits now and cant miss)
Maybe making Sandstorm increase moves accuracy ,and giving all Rock pokemon resistance to recoil, maybe less is not all ,so that Rock Head has still reason to resist. Rock pokemon have this "rough,brutish,simple" identity compared to Steel more"polished,keen,detailed" Having more "reckless" type moves would work best,and a gameplay helping them. Maybe even a "counter" playstyle,like automatic Rock Helmet or Rough Skin. Maybe making Flinch the unofficial rock speciality,giving most moves a chance to flinch. I like to think as Rock as one of the game fundamental types, so seeing it given more respect. Being Hard and Strong is a simple concept, like a foil to Water,Fire and Grass,or even Electric. It has pure physical identity,really feel like a 5th fundamental Type(we all know Elec is the 4th starter type). It is often paired and compared to Fighting,thematically, like in the TGC,or in the old anime. By color ,themes ,gameplay interactions,the Natural Strenght vs Training approach. Paired together they feel like a Physical Type, and Psychic and Ghost being the Magical Type counterpart to it. Once Steel and Dark were added,this was lost.
I think it's worth mentioning that the physical/special split and the new moves in gen 4 made the Rock type more vulnerable and did not give it any buff to compensate
Dude, your editing in these videos is on a whole another level. Extensive, but not overwhelming, with memes sprinkled in here and there to spice it up. :)
The part that baffles me is the lack of move variety. Rock is known for... Stealth Rock, Rock Slide, and uh... hmm, uh... Power Gem, maybe? Obviously there's more attacks, like Wide Guard and Stone Edge, but the sheer neglect on even TRYING to give it new attacks has always baffled me. Ground suffers from this too, but it also has Spikes and Earthquake so it's at least as well off. They both could use some serious love.
One idea I had for a type rom hack that im doing was to make Sandstorm give Sturdy to all Rock-types. Thus whenever Sandstorm's up you get to play more aggressively knowing you can tank whatever one hit they throw at you. This would benefit greatly pokemon such as Lycanroc that can replace their Focus Sash with a Clear Amulet or boosting item to help deal more damage. Another change is that Rock now resists Ground. This wouldn't make Rock a defensive behemoth but switching the number of resistances and weaknesses at least gives them a bit more flexibility in coming in, and lets be honest Ground could use some more resists, the type is already strong as it is
Lore change. All rock types contain similar salt minerals that Garganacl has to resist the Ghost Typing. Then, you can simplify Garganacl's ability to just give it an Immunity to status ailments, and all Rock types gain a resistance to Ghost Types.
Its very fitting that the only mon mentioned in the video that actually fits the slow and bulky brick wall idea is not only part steel type, its also literally a brick wall
In Sandstorm, all Rock-type attacks have an additional 10% or 20% chance to flinch. There you go. Only solution I can think of that makes some sense lore-wise. Or maybe something with Critical Hits. All Rock-type attacks have increased crit chance in sand. That could work too. Maybe do both (10% flinch and +1 crit).
Changes I would make specifically to help the Rock-Type. -Have Ground and Rock resist eachother. Ground Hits so many types for super effective, it can afford losing one good matchup. -Have Rock resist Electric while Steel becomes weak to. Together with the first change, this should reduce the overlap problem. -All Rock Types gain an inherent immunity to Flinching. -Fundamental change of how accuracy and evasion works, so inteed of "You allowed to play the game or F$%k you", it becomes "How much of an attacks power could land on average?". (How this affects Status-Moves is still up for disscusion) -In Sandstorm, in replacement for the SpD Boost for Rock-Types, all Non-Rock-Type Pokémons receive a debuff in accuracy and evasion. Not really sure if these are good changes or not, But one thing I AM sure of it is, the whole battle system would greatly benefit of a complete renovation from the ground up.
Gamefreak should also remove rocks weakness to fighting or ground. There is no reason rock should be weak to the two most common attacking types like steel which makes sense for steel as your tradeoff for resisting 10 types is being weak to the two most common attacking types
Has anyone mentioned Brendan Zheng yet? He also won worlds with escavalier. Still, you are the only trainer to win worlds with a big type in the master division, but since the younger divisions get so much less attention I just wanted to point that out
Meteor beam has to be one of my favorite moves now (ignoring the signature move of duraludons evo), in trade of for your item slot, you get a one time 180 power move whis generally buffs your attack And its even better when used by a rock type who stabs it and gets it to 270 power This move is single handedly what makes many rock types fantastic... if more rock types actually had higher sp attack
i always interpreted the trio of Ice, Rock and Steel as being offense (Ice), defense (Steel) and balanced (Rock). i also think rock deserves a little bit more defensive use, and what better way than to let it resist incoming rock-type attacks? EDIT: another thing, reducing the overly-wide distribution of moves like earthquake and close combat would probably work to make rock types feel a lot more sturdy.
I'm glad you mentioned Stealth Rock at the end, despite it being largely irrelevant in VGC. But it's actually even sadder in singles, because most of the best stealth rocking Rock types are outclassed by similar Ground or Steel types, who also include integral immunities/resistances and are already generally required on a team, are more common as spinners (there are a few Rock spinners like Kabutops, but compare Kabutop's value as a rocker/spinner to something like Donphan, Great Tusk, Excadrill, etc.), and actually *resist rocks themselves* to come in and spin on them, which Rock types don't even do. The irony of Ground/Steel types (the two types that collectively outclass Rock for the most part) 4x resisting stealth rocks to come in and spin on perfectly defines the identity problem Rock types have had for a long time. Hell, even Stone Edge in singles is almost a better move on Ground types than Rock types because it usually hits the essential Ground immunities (who are weak to Rock) harder than a Rock type would hit a neutral target with STAB alone, yet both of them suffer from the same accuracy problem, while Ground's main STAB is 100 BP and 100% accurate. Toxic being removed from most non-Poison types and then also being buffed for Poison type users to be 100% accurate was a really good change in my opinion, and I think other types could benefit from those kinds of changes. STAB is one thing, but when your best STAB is less consistent than your type cousin who also gets every Rock move you get as coverage for their stronger and more consistent STAB, it feels way easier to get outclassed without specifically having a signature Rock type move that's better. Garg, Boulder, Oger-CS are all relevant because of their signature Rock move. Hell, even Kleavor is useful in singles for that reason (not 100% accurate but has an amazing secondary effect that is way more worthwhile). I'd rather see buffs to the Rock type across the board in a blanket way than just pray that all future Rock types get good signature moves, leaving old Rock types in the dust. What if Rock types had a boosted 1.2x accuracy multiplier on their single target STAB? So Rock Slide spam isn't suddenly 100% accurate in VGC, but Stone Edge becomes a much more viable option, and in singles, Rock Slide becomes almost 100% consistent. The number of Rock/Ground types that have to suffer through 4x weaknesses to multiple types would finally have an advantage over just being a Ground type that has coverage to hit Flying types super effectively. That sort of change emphasizes that Rock types aren't meant to be equal defensively to Ground or Steel, but instead that they have a key leg up in offense, since that's the direction more recent mons have leaned. Personally I don't think Sandstorm needs to change, because the most consistent Rock type ever is already consistent BECAUSE of Sandstorm. Any buff you give to Sandstorm is just a buff to one of the only Rock types who doesn't actually need it. Plus, Sandstorm's chip damage is now actually completely unique since Hail got reworked into Snow, so I think that's fine to keep. Hence why I think 100% Rock accuracy in Sandstorm or something isn't a better solution than just the blanket 1.2x accuracy buff for Rock STAB that can exclude multi-target hits. And actually speaking of Ground/Steel types benefitting more from Rock things than Rock types, Excadrill with 100% accurate Rock coverage in Sand would be a huge buff for him too lol. Just another example of non-Rock types who benefit from Rock's signature weather more than most Rock types do. If anything, I think they could remove the other types' immunities to Sand chip outside of specific ability holders like Sand Rush, Sand Force, and Sand Stream. Strangely enough, as shown thanks to Tera, Sand Rush and Sand Force actually already do give you a sand chip immunity regardless of your type, but Sand Stream does not. So if you Tera your Sand Stream mon off of Rock/Ground/Steel, they actually take sand chip lol Anyway buff Wigglytuff (not a Rock type)
I'm finding coalossal on my sun teams to be quite a menace in reg H because of the all the erruptors, incins, armorouges charizards, it's having a really fun party, not only can you easily switch him in as he is 4x resistant, gets steam engine, then gets meteor beam boost, and then sun boosted fire attacks, he's loving it honestly. Another one which is is good is eviolite rhydon with tera flying and lightning rod ability. for archaludons who want to spam electro shot, rhydon can be very tanky, hit hard, protect all the water types and flying types on your team, and also resist a lot with tera flying. These aren't conventional picks, but im having so much fun. Thank you for the vid.
Rock types would benefit by having a rock type version of crunch with 100% acc. Specially tyrantrum who has no stab biting moves and lycanroc dusk who cant abuse any rock moves except accelerock Also stone edge should be the new never miss move thats equivalent to hurricane and thunder. It does less damage than those two moves and can be affected by intimidate but its high crit rate can make up for that. Also since rock slide is already useful without doing lots of damage, it doesnt have to be a blizzard clone.
I've always seen Rock as one of the worst types, honestly the fact that Tyranitar is so good in spite of it (and gaining a 4x weakness to fighting because of it) has always been a mystery to me lol. But I guess when you have pseudolegendary stats and access to one of the best types (Dark) it pulls a lot of it's weight for it.
1st offensive improvement would be makinf more good base power no benefit no drawback rock move, rock slide Is fantastic but sometimes it would be nice just to hit stuff reliably. 2nd improvement would be to shift its offensive identity away from the ground type and its defensive one from the steel type. I don't know how, but having a little less overlap offensively with ground and defensively with steel would help rock find his own niche as well as revitalizing all of the old rock ground- rock steel mons that would massively benefit from avoiding all of the 4x weaknesses as well as getting more value out of their second stab options. 3rd improvement would be having a new ground type sand setter better then hippo, that way the sandstream buffs would be helpfull for more rock mons then ttar. On the same note an ability that sets sand up when an adjecent mon uses a wind move (bleakwind storm, tailwind etc) would be both good and interesting. I don't know how bad would be for singles but ye, having more ways to passively set hazards would be something i guess.
@Zomonitan Toxins dont Affect Poison. Most poison types also ooze slime and stuff. Rocks can I guess break rocks, but it would just make more rocks. I think Rock types should just be immune to hazard all together. You can't poison a mineral.
for many types, adding a type can shore up defensive weaknesses. like add steel to flying, and you remove two flying weaknesses, and add more resistances but what type does rock want?! or what type is ok with being saddled with rock? adding steel does ameliorate two weaknesses, but you get two 4x's in exchange! water is better than most, helping with steel and water, but you get a 4x to grass grass gives you zero 4x weaknesses, makes you neutral to water and grass, but you end up with only two resistances, and still have 4 weaknesses dragon does add a resistance and makes some weaknesses neutral, but you still end up with one more weakness than you started with! flying is probably the best, but this is more an example of flying helping rock, than rock helping flying, as flying removes three weaknesses from rock, and rock removes zero weaknesses from flying, and the results still has 5 weaknesses. where are the synergies? there's just too much weakness overlap with other types.
This is where offenses come into play because offensively rock is probably one of the best types to have stab for. For reference, while Rock/Grass doesn’t have a lot of resistances, it makes up for it by having tons of coverage. It hits every type in the game for neutral damage except for Steel. For exact numbers as of the current dex, it hits 70 Pokémon for not very effective, 609 for Neutral, and 536 for super effective. A majority of resists are steel types and every Pokémon that does resist the two are weak to fighting or ground, two types that are very easy to slap onto a team. If you just double down onto the offensive stats, rock type is arguably the most sought after type offensively next to fire, ground, fighting, fairy, and electric.
How about give Mega Tyranitar an ability that works like Mega Rayquaza? All rock type pokemon in the field whenever that ability is active will lose its weaknesses.
Rock and ice types both have a different problem; they may be the most common coverage for other types. Water types basically all learn ice moves, and ground types, fighting types and a lot of steel types learn rock type moves, so you don't need the bad defensive Pokemon to use the amazing offenses.
How to buff bug type: Increase amount of HP recovered while grass is active. Makes sense with them eating vegetation in my mind. Would pose huge problems with volcarona though. Maybe except for bug+fire dual types?
Rock type attacks tend to have a low accuracy to begin with so imo it would make a lot of sense if they just made it so that with sand up all rock type attacks will have 100% accuracy
Game Freak needs to make more accurate special and physical rock type moves and make some of them faster. Albeit Game Freak need to bring back the frostbite effect.
This comment is not related to the video at all, but it would be cool if you were to do a retrospective of your championships someday - there's not much on youtube about that era on VGC, and you of course have the best story there.
i wonder if Regice could make somewhat of a come back when the ice type finally does get more resistances, of course as long as power creep doesn't remain consistent
@@sinnohperson8813 true. Oh u know what could be fun. Make ice resist water as well but lower scalds burn chance to 10 and make it do super effective damage against ice. That way scald and freeze dry are counterparts
@@FlygonkingVGCTechnically Fighting being strong against ice was more of a martial arts thing than it is realistic, with shows/movies depicting fighters breaking ice or splitting glaciers. However the original fairy type before it was changed mid-development of XY actually buffed the Ice type by giving ice a resistance and was weak to fire. This was changed partway in development which sucks because Ice types could’ve gone crazy with the resistance, allowing it to eat hits from Xerneas and Flutter Mane, only issue would be making Kyurem and Baxcalibur insanely busted.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
I like the idea of just giving rock types an accuracy boost in the sandstorm to help cover for their widely inaccurate STAB moves without buffing specific rock type attacks
Terrakion definitely needs it
Tyranitar stocks undoubtedly rise to the moon here: In singles, Stone Edge is amazing STAB AND has high crit chance; in VGC, rock slide will not miss AND has high flinch chance
Imo stone edge should never miss in sandstorm.
@@Bee.021 Rockslide can miss it has like 90-95 accuracy
@@bigmonke3348 Normally, it can - but @/UNCizme's suggested buff was the sandstorm accuracy buff haha
0:10 "Pokémon of these two types have as many victories combined as I do" is the biggest flex I've heard before
Granted, that’s only true if you look only at Masters.
Even bigger flex for Ray. He’s won as many worlds as incineroar
3 x world champ dif
To be fair it was also the era, where meta didn't change a lot (and that Escavalier year, technically should have gone to Wolfe, if not for the awful misclick), but it's still an extreme accomplishment. Kinda makes you wish they gave the winners more money.
Also barely 58 Pokémon won the Masters division. With most types only having like 3-5 Pokémon (even types like Fire, Ground or Fighting get their values from meta breaking Pokémon like Incineroar, Urshifu and Landorus). SV actually breaking some of the usual trends, by giving us another Normal and another Ice winner.
In a nutshell, Rock types are…
-Slow
-Bulky
-Defensive
-4 times weak
-Filled with non 100% accurate moves
Me a cradily enjoyer
which is almost the same reason why ice types are bad.
rock and ice types are glass cannon types, but most of them are defensive
Except that they aren't defensive. They have way too many weaknesses
@@ianperry8557 thank Arceus for storm drain.
@ I love my niche sp def wall
We've known for ages that rock/ground is trash... defensively. Offensively, it's an incredible combination. What if we actually made a fast offensive rock/ground type?
A fast mon
Rock being bad defensively is so dumb
Legends ZaZa better add mega Lycanroc or smth
@@InsertFunnyThingHere Lycanroc Dawn
Agreed, it would be amazing to see, and its long overdue.
Everytime i used Rhydon back in the days i thought, "what if this combo was on a mon that wasnt outsped by everything?"
Doesn't have to be physical either, that is, if power gem actually had distribution, nobody wants to rely on ancient power.
I straight up do not understand why most rock type moves are low accuracy. Other types have moves that are effectively slinging weapons at their opponent and they are fully accurate.
Some I can understand, like rock slide. Since it can flinch and hits spread damage the lower accuracy makes sense. But there should probably be a very common physical rock move that's the equivalent of hitting someone with a column of rock, which would effectively be like ivy cudgel. A simple fully accurate damaging rock type move.
Rock Throw (the basic 40 power rock type move) has 90 accuracy for no reason, and its incredibly depressing. I have no clue why they're so stubborn about this design philosophy.
@@lasercraft32 They lost control of power creep a long long long time ago, and are still swinging sledge hammers trying to "fix" it. I don't need to say more than Fairy Type.
I think that people forget how bad rock types are because Tyranitar, the most iconic of them all, is extremely strong and arguably one of the best mons of all time.
As I've heard it said before "Tyranitar succeeds _in spite_ of its terrible typing, not because of it."
The fact that Rock/Dark is arguably one of the worst type combinations is a testament to how busted Tyranitar is more than anything. XD
No my son.... No king rules forever.....
*T-TAR HAS, FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY, FALLEN OUT OF OU BY USAGE!*
I mean, bug is actually a fine type nearly every high bst bug type is meta viable it’s just it’s plagued with low bst
@@Moe_Posting_Chad you are 1 year late
@@lillyie I still wake up in a cold sweat...
When you think about it, it’s actually horrifying how many type combinations with the rock type result in x4 weaknesses. Add rock to Ground, Fire, Steel, Ice and you have two quad super effective weaknesses, but there’s also quad weaknesses for water, poison, dark, electric and fairy. What’s even worse is that some of these type combos are very popular choices to be given to Pokémon
this is because rock already has 5 weaknesses, you can say the same for grass types
@@fishfox Ice too with 4 weaknesses
Pair Ice with said Rock, Bug, and even Steel and you get two 4x weaknesses
Pair Ice with Grass, Fairy, Flying, Dark, and Normal (no such thing yet) and you still get a 4x weakness alongside multiple weaknesses on top of that
Should be grateful it’s weaknesses don’t overlap as much as Rock’s do, same with Grass’ who are saved by it’s 4 redeeming resistances (something that Rock and Ice could only dream of)
And Ice doesn’t offer much defensively beyond a Ice resistance either
so 9 out of 17 possible combinations have a 4x weakness, that's tough
@fishfox
Grass at least synergizes well with Steel, as does Bug. Rock/Steel types on the other hand are useless defensively.
We need a rock/ghost like yesterday
Even Jasmine dropped her Rock type speciality to be a Steel gym leader.
Besides onix, what did she have?
@@cgyh68748 lore-wise she says she was a Rock type specialist and decided to switch to being a Steel one instead. I'm not sure what Pokemon she used to have though.
@@AeroMaster7 didnt she have a magnemite or magneton since she was a child?
@@janthecoo4964
With how many different continuities Pokemon has its entirely possible she was both a steel user since she was a child AND a former rock user, just in different media.
I remember like two magnemite one magneton and steelix. Maybe siczior too?
I can't remember the last time I deliberately used a rock type for its qualities. It's a great attacking type but I always forget about it defensively until I use one of those mons that happen to be rock-ground instead of pure ground where I randomly die 3x faster.
Personally I think I’ve used a rock type on like three occasions. Against Falkner and the traded rock type, aggron for its steel type and Gen 5 because there’s alot of actually good Mons that just so happen to be rock types, except Gigalith. I like that one
Rock being a bad type, and yet being so essential to the Pokémon experience (especially classic Pokémon) has hurt me for years. A defensive typing that doesn’t work defensively is just pointless.
Tyranitar: what is my purpose?
Game: make the mole go fast
Tyranitar: ...oh my god
make garchomp unhittable
oh damn, i LOVE the idea of rock moves getting more accurate in sandstorm
The craziest thing about rock is that if they just gave it one somewhat strong move with 100% accuracy, it could potentially save the type.
I always like really always felt like.
Rock is just another normal type.
Their attacks are the least cool looking one and cant be really upgraded.
Thing is like this. Tackle. Is literally weaker version both literally and gamewise of slam, bodyslam heck even that one move with recoil there are two i believe.
And rock is basically that.
Throws pebble, throws rocks, throws boulder. All the same.
When in anime.
Rock is often used as „special“ type. Ie. They use it to counter ranged attacks or airborne.
Sometimes fully block the sight of pokemon.
But the normal type? Its very often used as a commedic relief.
And rarely used as raw strenght move.
Like all normal type attacks are kinda just strenght. 😅
So there is for the game like less reason to use these moves or upgrade them, same for anime.
Heck we seen ursaring with focus miss in the anime instead of rock type moves.
For anyone wondering it took 3:35 for incineroar to appear in a video about rock type Pokemon.
This is so interesting because last night I was standing at my sink and thought "Rock is a weak defensive type.... how tf are rocks weak to everything? Shouldnt they be literal walls?"
In a world with animals that can shoot hyperbeams i think it's pretty safe to assume rocks are not seen the same way as they are in our world
Fighting beats them because martial artists break bricks. Steel beats them because of industrialization and tools like the pickaxe. Ground because all rocks eventually erode and turn to dust, and can even be stripped by sand. Water because rivers and streams wear through the earth to create canyons and can split boulders.
Grass because.... I don't know Game Freak was feeling Game Freaky that day.
because it has too many weaknesses and too little resistances.
@@SentinelHirsc I was thinking about flowers growing through asphalt
@@SentinelHirscplants literally break through walls and sidewalks
As a Ground type enjoyer, seeing their sibling just be objectively worse and have bad movepools is so wild to see
Normal sibling relationship no?
The problem with the rock type is offensive synergy. Rock is weak to and not effective against 3 types, and not a single other type is super-effective against even 2 of them. Meaning your rock type is getting suppressed by an average of 2 pokemon on the enemy team and there's nothing you can do about it.
Ice is much better with electic/ground/water + freeze dry being perfect alongside it.
This is a very interesting point. Nothing is super effective against ground AND steel, or steel AND fighting, or fighting AND ground. Compare this to say, fairy. Where all 3 of the things that resist fairy (2 of which are also super effective against it) are weak to ground. It's hard to help cover rock types counters, while it's easy to cover fairy types. Interesting
Part of the reason the Rock type was so good in Gen 1 is that Normal was the best type in the game at the time, with the three competitively strongest and most mandatory Pokémon in the game (Tauros, Snorlax, and Chansey) all being Normal type. So a type that could resist Body Slam and Hyper Beam was really valuable, even if it had very few offensive options. Fighting type COULD have been great too, since it could hit Normal for supereffective damage, but it had very few defensive options, which was much more of a curse.
My ideas
•Lower Stealth Rocks distribution like toxic spikes for poison
•Increase accuracy in sand by 30 percent
•Immune to stealth rock or half damage to stealth rock
•Rock abilities like purifying salt that give resist to other types
Whiling they reduced Toxic distribution recently, but they did the opposite for Spikes and Toxic Spikes since gen 8
11:53 wouldn't have expected Ray to look out for the crystal obsessed moms demographic, but good on you sticking up for them!
wait, rock DOESN'T already resist electric??? great video, shows how certain types get kind of tossed by the wayside as others are built up more and more. hopefully rock/sand and bug are next on the buffing block
Think onix caused this misconception everyone remembers that anime episode where pikachu struggled with onix but forget its rock ground.
No, rock has no reason to resist electricity.
Quartz itself has a piezoelectric which can cause it to distort and change shape. Diamond is completely resistant as there’s no free ions or electrons. Iron carries eldctricty good. Calcite doesn’t. It’s just completely depend on what the rock is made of. If anything, it being neutral fits rocks, as whatever the rock is made of helps influence the conductivity of the fock
If anything rocks are a lot better conductors then water, so if anything rock should be weak to electricity. Bht let’s not nerf the type
I specifically remember in Pokemon yellow thunderbolt against any rock pokemon it said "the move was resisted"
@@MosEisleyCantinaStories I assume this is just gen 1 being weird in code.
Rock slide flinch era was an event you had to be there
The problem is, by buffing rock types, you also nerf ice and bug types because they’re weak to rock
I think a stealth rock/ entry hazard absorbing ability could be really good. Maybe have it give a defense boost, like it's pulling in the rocks and spikes to cover the mon like a layer of armor.
This would be sick
Right, like how poison types remove toxic spikes. That would be a huge deal in singles.
It's really not a coincidence that Rock started to fall off around the same time Normal did.
Back in Gen One and Two, being able to fight Normal-type was a HUGE deal. Nowadays with the Normal-type being really bad, what is there for Rock-types to do that a better type with coverage can't offer?
It's sad, but it was destined to fall to power-creep once Game Freak started making types like Fighting, Grass, Ghost, and Fire real types. Steel types getting bettet and better didn't help things along, either.
13:57 "accelrock" wants a word. I know already that it's a sgnature move but it still makes it exist
I think the reason for rock's low accuracy Is that going all the way back to generation 1, it was a type commonly used by enemy trainers and common wild pokémon like rock tunnel and mt moon, and the low accuracy was meant to make those fights easier for the player.
I like the idea of a +1 accuracy boost to rock moves under sandstorm, but make Rock Slide’s flinch chance 10% (the same as Heat Wave’s burn). Stone Edge would become VERY viable on Tyranitar to get through intimidate.
Or the inverse
Have accuracy lower for non rock mons hehe
@@joeyno137 "Have accuracy lower for non rock mons hehe"
That sounds like it could be very annoying to deal with especially if combined with Sand Veil... though I suppose most Sand Veil pokemon aren't actually rock pokemon but it seems a bit wrong for a pokemon with Sand Veil to have a penalty in Sandstorm
@@JoViljarHaugstulen "though I suppose most Sand Veil pokemon aren't actually rock pokemon but it seems a bit wrong for a pokemon with Sand Veil to have a penalty in Sandstorm" I think this could be balanced by the fact pokemon with Sand Veil, Sand Rush, and whatever the other sandstorm-based abilities were called, those pokemon already ignore the passive damage from Sandstorm. So it would make sense to retroactively buff those abilities by saying "Negates Sandstorm's negative effects on the pokemon with this ability" or something of that sort. A nice buff to all the ground type homies out there, and Houndstone.
0:36 I still say rework the type chart:
Ice should at the minimum resist electric making it the only type to stop bolt-beam
Steel should be weak to electric
Sandstorm doesn't need to raise rock-type power, but increasing rock-type accuracy and making them all swift-type incapable of missing would help a lot.
If other weathers give 50% damage, rock-types can get 50% accuracy added.
That would truly make Ttar great again.
i love how ray puts wolfey in the video like 3-4 times and most of them are times when he's getting dumpster'd
16:10 Archeops with protosyntesis... Man that would be a field day for its 2 and a half fans
If Archeops has million fans, then I'm one of them.
If Archeops has one fan, then I'm THAT ONE.
If Archeops has no fans, that means I'm dead.
3:27 nitpick here, urshifu isnt faster than Palafin
Midnight Lycanroc is 1 of my favorite rock type Pokemon with how phenomenal it's attack stat is. The problem is tho it has horrendous speed and unlike it's alternate forms (Dusk & Midday) it doesn't receive a signature move.
I was really hoping it would get one in this new gen but after 2/3 games now that is unlikely to happen which sucks.
I’ve always hated the idea that the bug type is the weakest because “they’re just bugs”
In the real world bugs are cheating, they’re in a tier of their own in terms of survivability and lethality. Have you ever seen a parasitic wasp reproduce, those things are vile, and other bugs like roaches and horn beetles refuse to die. Don’t even get me started on how bugs are immune to pretty much every poison including insecticide.
Pokémon just does bugs dirty and they deserve better.
I mean tbf. The creator of pokemon knows how busted bugs are.
And yea sure they are immune but you cant distrubute all buggs immunity, poison type or steel type.
Look at volcarona. Its a beast.
And the ice type variant ( completly different mon but in bizarro, also a beast on same caliber)
Infact its so much known. That most of the good hitters are just slow. Thank god bizarro exist but never uses it.
Sherox also slow. But thank god it has two things goin on for him. Technician, stab - priority.
Beeing steel help hugely for sure but its just worse then most steels type without these 2.
Its weakest type not because of bugs.
Its weakest because of busted the real things are.
2:55 The real forgotten type. Steek.
steak type
@dustrose8101 Miltank: 👀
I think they need to lean more into the fossil and crystal themes, and improve the strategier around rock polish, and the inaccuracy problems of rock moves
The problem with rock is similar to ice in past generations, bad defensive good ofensive type, but most mons of the type are defensive mons. And things like low accuracy moves makes Rock even worse than ice in ofensive mons.
9:53 This is a false premise as there have always been Rock type Pokémon with high attack stats. The first games gave us Rhydon, Golem, Aerodactyl and Kabutops which each have above 100 base attack stats (two of which have high Speed stats as well). In fact, every generation since has added at least 1-2 Pokémon with 100+ Attack.
Of the 88* Rock type Pokémon that currently exist, only 8 (just 10% of the group) fit the archetype of "Slow, Bulky and Defensive with LOW attack":
- Shuckle
- Corsola
- Nosepass
- Shieldon
- Bastiodon
- Probopass
- Carbink
- Minior
Cradily actually has higher attack stats than Coalossal (81 > 80 in each ). So idk if that counts as low attack. Pretty much every other Rock Pokemon has either a high Attack or Sp. Attack stat somewhere at or above base 100. So an overwhelming majority of Rock types actually DO have the ability to do a lot of damage.
They really dropped the ball not making Gigalith and Alolan Golem special attacking rock types. Golem I can see an argument for or against, but it being a magnetic railgun I think lends well with a bulky special attacker. As for Gigalith, all of its dex entries describe its mysterious power and strong internal energy. Which both sound like strong special attacking capability to me.
as someone who doesn’t play pokemon competitively but love watching videos about competitive pokemon, seeing literally everyone complain about how busted intimidate is as an ability is so funny
15:45 Maybe it can have the Iron Fists ability, and give Armaldo access to some of those punching attacks? Most notably Mach Punch or Focus Punch, that way it can handle those Steel types like the lore says. It'd be cool to get Ice Punch for coverage as well.
Not too strong, but enough to cover the bases in normal play
16:30 electric resists steel
more rock types should get accelerock, maybe give it to golem beacause he can accelerate like a rolling boulder.
also:
give armaldo tough claws. kabutops sharpness. aerodactyl brave bird.
maybe rock types should get accuracy boost in the sand if they have safety goggles on but only for rock moves. (head smash/stone edge 95acc, 100% accurate rock slide, rock blast gets atleast 4hits now and cant miss)
Maybe making Sandstorm increase moves accuracy ,and giving all Rock pokemon resistance to recoil, maybe less is not all ,so that Rock Head has still reason to resist.
Rock pokemon have this "rough,brutish,simple" identity compared to Steel more"polished,keen,detailed"
Having more "reckless" type moves would work best,and a gameplay helping them. Maybe even a "counter" playstyle,like automatic Rock Helmet or Rough Skin.
Maybe making Flinch the unofficial rock speciality,giving most moves a chance to flinch.
I like to think as Rock as one of the game fundamental types, so seeing it given more respect.
Being Hard and Strong is a simple concept, like a foil to Water,Fire and Grass,or even Electric. It has pure physical identity,really feel like a 5th fundamental Type(we all know Elec is the 4th starter type).
It is often paired and compared to Fighting,thematically, like in the TGC,or in the old anime. By color ,themes ,gameplay interactions,the Natural Strenght vs Training approach. Paired together they feel like a Physical Type, and Psychic and Ghost being the Magical Type counterpart to it. Once Steel and Dark were added,this was lost.
Yet another banger from the man himself! The editing on this video was top notch too, you should give the editor a raise
I think it's worth mentioning that the physical/special split and the new moves in gen 4 made the Rock type more vulnerable and did not give it any buff to compensate
Dude, your editing in these videos is on a whole another level. Extensive, but not overwhelming, with memes sprinkled in here and there to spice it up. :)
❤❤❤
The part that baffles me is the lack of move variety.
Rock is known for... Stealth Rock, Rock Slide, and uh... hmm, uh... Power Gem, maybe? Obviously there's more attacks, like Wide Guard and Stone Edge, but the sheer neglect on even TRYING to give it new attacks has always baffled me. Ground suffers from this too, but it also has Spikes and Earthquake so it's at least as well off. They both could use some serious love.
One idea I had for a type rom hack that im doing was to make Sandstorm give Sturdy to all Rock-types. Thus whenever Sandstorm's up you get to play more aggressively knowing you can tank whatever one hit they throw at you. This would benefit greatly pokemon such as Lycanroc that can replace their Focus Sash with a Clear Amulet or boosting item to help deal more damage.
Another change is that Rock now resists Ground. This wouldn't make Rock a defensive behemoth but switching the number of resistances and weaknesses at least gives them a bit more flexibility in coming in, and lets be honest Ground could use some more resists, the type is already strong as it is
Lore change. All rock types contain similar salt minerals that Garganacl has to resist the Ghost Typing. Then, you can simplify Garganacl's ability to just give it an Immunity to status ailments, and all Rock types gain a resistance to Ghost Types.
Its very fitting that the only mon mentioned in the video that actually fits the slow and bulky brick wall idea is not only part steel type, its also literally a brick wall
13:51 another nitpick, wave crash is 100 accuracy
That’s my b ✊🏻😞
What I think its absolutely criminal is that rock typ s receive neutral dmg from stealh rocks while steal and gorund resists
Bug has some great moves. Sticky Web, U-turn, Lunge, First impression, and leech life. Now you just need an actually good bug type pokemon.
Besides Volcarona, and in singles Scizor
In Sandstorm, all Rock-type attacks have an additional 10% or 20% chance to flinch. There you go. Only solution I can think of that makes some sense lore-wise.
Or maybe something with Critical Hits. All Rock-type attacks have increased crit chance in sand. That could work too. Maybe do both (10% flinch and +1 crit).
Changes I would make specifically to help the Rock-Type.
-Have Ground and Rock resist eachother. Ground Hits so many types for super effective, it can afford losing one good matchup.
-Have Rock resist Electric while Steel becomes weak to. Together with the first change, this should reduce the overlap problem.
-All Rock Types gain an inherent immunity to Flinching.
-Fundamental change of how accuracy and evasion works, so inteed of "You allowed to play the game or F$%k you", it becomes "How much of an attacks power could land on average?". (How this affects Status-Moves is still up for disscusion)
-In Sandstorm, in replacement for the SpD Boost for Rock-Types, all Non-Rock-Type Pokémons receive a debuff in accuracy and evasion.
Not really sure if these are good changes or not, But one thing I AM sure of it is, the whole battle system would greatly benefit of a complete renovation from the ground up.
"Once again, I've cut a worthless object" ahhhh thumbnail
Gamefreak should also remove rocks weakness to fighting or ground. There is no reason rock should be weak to the two most common attacking types like steel which makes sense for steel as your tradeoff for resisting 10 types is being weak to the two most common attacking types
Has anyone mentioned Brendan Zheng yet? He also won worlds with escavalier. Still, you are the only trainer to win worlds with a big type in the master division, but since the younger divisions get so much less attention I just wanted to point that out
Fast strong rocktype with a signature ability to be immune to water and grass.
Meteor beam has to be one of my favorite moves now (ignoring the signature move of duraludons evo), in trade of for your item slot, you get a one time 180 power move whis generally buffs your attack
And its even better when used by a rock type who stabs it and gets it to 270 power
This move is single handedly what makes many rock types fantastic... if more rock types actually had higher sp attack
I'm still waiting for a spATK oriented Ghost/Rock Shynx-Pokémon, to build on the ancient desert theme introduced in gen 5.
I think if all rock moves received an additional accuracy check in sandstorm would be interesting.
It taked 3:33 minutes for Inceniroar to appear on a video about rock types.
i always interpreted the trio of Ice, Rock and Steel as being offense (Ice), defense (Steel) and balanced (Rock). i also think rock deserves a little bit more defensive use, and what better way than to let it resist incoming rock-type attacks?
EDIT: another thing, reducing the overly-wide distribution of moves like earthquake and close combat would probably work to make rock types feel a lot more sturdy.
I'm glad you mentioned Stealth Rock at the end, despite it being largely irrelevant in VGC. But it's actually even sadder in singles, because most of the best stealth rocking Rock types are outclassed by similar Ground or Steel types, who also include integral immunities/resistances and are already generally required on a team, are more common as spinners (there are a few Rock spinners like Kabutops, but compare Kabutop's value as a rocker/spinner to something like Donphan, Great Tusk, Excadrill, etc.), and actually *resist rocks themselves* to come in and spin on them, which Rock types don't even do. The irony of Ground/Steel types (the two types that collectively outclass Rock for the most part) 4x resisting stealth rocks to come in and spin on perfectly defines the identity problem Rock types have had for a long time. Hell, even Stone Edge in singles is almost a better move on Ground types than Rock types because it usually hits the essential Ground immunities (who are weak to Rock) harder than a Rock type would hit a neutral target with STAB alone, yet both of them suffer from the same accuracy problem, while Ground's main STAB is 100 BP and 100% accurate.
Toxic being removed from most non-Poison types and then also being buffed for Poison type users to be 100% accurate was a really good change in my opinion, and I think other types could benefit from those kinds of changes. STAB is one thing, but when your best STAB is less consistent than your type cousin who also gets every Rock move you get as coverage for their stronger and more consistent STAB, it feels way easier to get outclassed without specifically having a signature Rock type move that's better. Garg, Boulder, Oger-CS are all relevant because of their signature Rock move. Hell, even Kleavor is useful in singles for that reason (not 100% accurate but has an amazing secondary effect that is way more worthwhile). I'd rather see buffs to the Rock type across the board in a blanket way than just pray that all future Rock types get good signature moves, leaving old Rock types in the dust. What if Rock types had a boosted 1.2x accuracy multiplier on their single target STAB? So Rock Slide spam isn't suddenly 100% accurate in VGC, but Stone Edge becomes a much more viable option, and in singles, Rock Slide becomes almost 100% consistent. The number of Rock/Ground types that have to suffer through 4x weaknesses to multiple types would finally have an advantage over just being a Ground type that has coverage to hit Flying types super effectively. That sort of change emphasizes that Rock types aren't meant to be equal defensively to Ground or Steel, but instead that they have a key leg up in offense, since that's the direction more recent mons have leaned.
Personally I don't think Sandstorm needs to change, because the most consistent Rock type ever is already consistent BECAUSE of Sandstorm. Any buff you give to Sandstorm is just a buff to one of the only Rock types who doesn't actually need it. Plus, Sandstorm's chip damage is now actually completely unique since Hail got reworked into Snow, so I think that's fine to keep. Hence why I think 100% Rock accuracy in Sandstorm or something isn't a better solution than just the blanket 1.2x accuracy buff for Rock STAB that can exclude multi-target hits. And actually speaking of Ground/Steel types benefitting more from Rock things than Rock types, Excadrill with 100% accurate Rock coverage in Sand would be a huge buff for him too lol. Just another example of non-Rock types who benefit from Rock's signature weather more than most Rock types do. If anything, I think they could remove the other types' immunities to Sand chip outside of specific ability holders like Sand Rush, Sand Force, and Sand Stream. Strangely enough, as shown thanks to Tera, Sand Rush and Sand Force actually already do give you a sand chip immunity regardless of your type, but Sand Stream does not. So if you Tera your Sand Stream mon off of Rock/Ground/Steel, they actually take sand chip lol
Anyway buff Wigglytuff (not a Rock type)
I'm finding coalossal on my sun teams to be quite a menace in reg H because of the all the erruptors, incins, armorouges charizards, it's having a really fun party, not only can you easily switch him in as he is 4x resistant, gets steam engine, then gets meteor beam boost, and then sun boosted fire attacks, he's loving it honestly. Another one which is is good is eviolite rhydon with tera flying and lightning rod ability. for archaludons who want to spam electro shot, rhydon can be very tanky, hit hard, protect all the water types and flying types on your team, and also resist a lot with tera flying. These aren't conventional picks, but im having so much fun. Thank you for the vid.
Imagine how busted ttar would be if rock was a good type
Rock types would benefit by having a rock type version of crunch with 100% acc. Specially tyrantrum who has no stab biting moves and lycanroc dusk who cant abuse any rock moves except accelerock
Also stone edge should be the new never miss move thats equivalent to hurricane and thunder. It does less damage than those two moves and can be affected by intimidate but its high crit rate can make up for that. Also since rock slide is already useful without doing lots of damage, it doesnt have to be a blizzard clone.
Bug should be super effective on fairy. Rock needs a move with the power and accuracy of earthquake that is largely unique to rock types.
I've always seen Rock as one of the worst types, honestly the fact that Tyranitar is so good in spite of it (and gaining a 4x weakness to fighting because of it) has always been a mystery to me lol. But I guess when you have pseudolegendary stats and access to one of the best types (Dark) it pulls a lot of it's weight for it.
and one the 2 rock-types with Sand Stream
I like that because Tyranitar had Sand Stream it was the first Pokemon with godly stats.
1st offensive improvement would be makinf more good base power no benefit no drawback rock move, rock slide Is fantastic but sometimes it would be nice just to hit stuff reliably.
2nd improvement would be to shift its offensive identity away from the ground type and its defensive one from the steel type. I don't know how, but having a little less overlap offensively with ground and defensively with steel would help rock find his own niche as well as revitalizing all of the old rock ground- rock steel mons that would massively benefit from avoiding all of the 4x weaknesses as well as getting more value out of their second stab options.
3rd improvement would be having a new ground type sand setter better then hippo, that way the sandstream buffs would be helpfull for more rock mons then ttar.
On the same note an ability that sets sand up when an adjecent mon uses a wind move (bleakwind storm, tailwind etc) would be both good and interesting.
I don't know how bad would be for singles but ye, having more ways to passively set hazards would be something i guess.
What if rock types absorbed stealth rocks on switch in like poison types with t-spikes?
Lol explain to me how the heck rocks would absorb rocks???
@onetallpheeesh explain how a lizard absorbs poisoned caltrops. Pokemon doesn't have to make sense
@Zomonitan Toxins dont Affect Poison. Most poison types also ooze slime and stuff. Rocks can I guess break rocks, but it would just make more rocks.
I think Rock types should just be immune to hazard all together. You can't poison a mineral.
for many types, adding a type can shore up defensive weaknesses.
like add steel to flying, and you remove two flying weaknesses, and add more resistances
but what type does rock want?! or what type is ok with being saddled with rock?
adding steel does ameliorate two weaknesses, but you get two 4x's in exchange!
water is better than most, helping with steel and water, but you get a 4x to grass
grass gives you zero 4x weaknesses, makes you neutral to water and grass, but you end up with only two resistances, and still have 4 weaknesses
dragon does add a resistance and makes some weaknesses neutral, but you still end up with one more weakness than you started with!
flying is probably the best, but this is more an example of flying helping rock, than rock helping flying, as flying removes three weaknesses from rock, and rock removes zero weaknesses from flying, and the results still has 5 weaknesses.
where are the synergies? there's just too much weakness overlap with other types.
Bug is a decent type overlap. You keep resistances to normal and poison and have only two weaknesses in water and steel.
@@isaacsmith6482
ah good point, those are surprisingly synergistic.
but I think you have three weaknesses, including rock.
@@andy4an Rock is so bad that I forgot about it while actively talking about it :^)
This is where offenses come into play because offensively rock is probably one of the best types to have stab for.
For reference, while Rock/Grass doesn’t have a lot of resistances, it makes up for it by having tons of coverage. It hits every type in the game for neutral damage except for Steel. For exact numbers as of the current dex, it hits 70 Pokémon for not very effective, 609 for Neutral, and 536 for super effective. A majority of resists are steel types and every Pokémon that does resist the two are weak to fighting or ground, two types that are very easy to slap onto a team.
If you just double down onto the offensive stats, rock type is arguably the most sought after type offensively next to fire, ground, fighting, fairy, and electric.
Regirock having F on his face in the thumbnail is a really nice touch
13:56 The rock type literally has a 1:1 copy of Aqua Jet being Accelerock.
The problem is that only Lycanroc gets it!
Ice has made improvements in Scarlet and Violet and there are some good bug types
How about give Mega Tyranitar an ability that works like Mega Rayquaza? All rock type pokemon in the field whenever that ability is active will lose its weaknesses.
An ability that works like toxic debris but for stealth rocks just sent a chill down my singles playing spine
Rock and ice types both have a different problem; they may be the most common coverage for other types. Water types basically all learn ice moves, and ground types, fighting types and a lot of steel types learn rock type moves, so you don't need the bad defensive Pokemon to use the amazing offenses.
I love Rock and Ground types. I always have since I was a kid starting with Ruby and Sapphire. 😅I don’t know why I like them so much but I do
Great video! I'd love to see you make a comeback in the booth. I've loved hearing your commentary during tournament play!
My favorite part of this video is how it just cuts off right at the
How to buff bug type:
Increase amount of HP recovered while grass is active. Makes sense with them eating vegetation in my mind. Would pose huge problems with volcarona though. Maybe except for bug+fire dual types?
I know Rock is an offensive and subpar type, but I still think of it as a defensive powerhouse because of how ingrained the gen 1 experience is on me.
Rock type attacks tend to have a low accuracy to begin with so imo it would make a lot of sense if they just made it so that with sand up all rock type attacks will have 100% accuracy
“These rock types actually do damage”. Onix slithers away from screen. 😢
I'd like to see some sort of diamond theme ability or move that could break through steel.types. such as diamond claw or diamond fang etc etc
16:33 small correction: electric types resist steel types.
11:36 I think they're actually getting to it, nihilego and glimmora are newer gen mons while coalossal was mixed
you just reminded me that stakataka learns trick room and i still don’t know why they did that
Rock types are basically Walmart steel types
Editing is so good
Glad you enjoyed!! :)
I have wondered recently--- does anyone have Rock as their favorite-type?
Game Freak needs to make more accurate special and physical rock type moves and make some of them faster.
Albeit Game Freak need to bring back the frostbite effect.
I think Gamefreak stop buffing the Rock types after gaving us Stealth Rock.
I think removing a couple of rock's weaknesses would go a long way towards making it feel not as weak.
This comment is not related to the video at all, but it would be cool if you were to do a retrospective of your championships someday - there's not much on youtube about that era on VGC, and you of course have the best story there.
Ice is still not good, though. Please, Game Freak, give it a resistance or two!
i wonder if Regice could make somewhat of a come back when the ice type finally does get more resistances, of course as long as power creep doesn't remain consistent
Ice should resist flying and fighting rather than be weak to it because if u touch ice you get cold and can’t hit as hard
A resistance to water alone pushes it very far @@FlygonkingVGC
@@sinnohperson8813 true. Oh u know what could be fun. Make ice resist water as well but lower scalds burn chance to 10 and make it do super effective damage against ice. That way scald and freeze dry are counterparts
@@FlygonkingVGCTechnically Fighting being strong against ice was more of a martial arts thing than it is realistic, with shows/movies depicting fighters breaking ice or splitting glaciers.
However the original fairy type before it was changed mid-development of XY actually buffed the Ice type by giving ice a resistance and was weak to fire. This was changed partway in development which sucks because Ice types could’ve gone crazy with the resistance, allowing it to eat hits from Xerneas and Flutter Mane, only issue would be making Kyurem and Baxcalibur insanely busted.