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Hi Nick! I'm one of yours French viewers (so excuse my mistakes ^^) and i really love your videos. I play go for like 6 years and my favorite book about this game is, of course... THE COSMIC STYLE !!! by Takemiya. I read this book 200 times i think, maybe more, and this game start exactly like another game of Takemiya (which is in the book). This game was play in 1990 against... Cho Hun !!! In the game of 1990, Takemiya won by 3,5pts. He attacked the "stick" of white and gain a lot of points in the center by this way. The thing which change in the 2003 game is the response of Cho after the keima in the lower-right corner. In the game of 1990, Cho play a joseki and finish gote in the corner, giving sente to Takemiya who can attack the white stick with a pincer at D10. One thing Takemiya said in this book about his style is that, when he can play what he likes (he likes making moyo and attacking invasion's stones), he's very good in his games. But when the game don't go like he wants (or when he play a move he doesn't like), his playstyle becoming awful. I think it's what happened in this game. After the Tenuki of Cho at D10 and the enormous move at J4, Takemiya probably thinking he had loose the fight of the center (killing the corner is a mistake i think) and after that, he's surrend in his mind. Voila ! I hope i didn't make to much mistakes ^^ Thanks again for your good work Nick, your videos are very helpful for improving my play.
Great video, thank you! : ) Very well presented. And I like the way you interact with your class, respectfully answering the questions and explaining things well.
I absolutely love these lectures and thank you very much for putting them here on RUclips. I'm a brand new player so put me comically below the lowest skill level (not even familiar with that yet), and I was wondering if you had buried here somewhere or knew of a series that explained Go to really new players. I'm starting to glean what good and bad moves are and I've spent hours looking at terminology pages to understand the lectures better, but a resources that very clearly gave a "This is the kind of mentality you should have while playing" to help my reluctant mother learn to play with me would be beautiful. Again, thanks :D
This actually doesn't work (in the hypothetical situation), because you officially have to pass 3 times in a row for the game to end. So in your case, after black passes as well, white may still play a move.
This is true when using AGA rules, which just makes sure that Chinese counting and Japanese counting always give the same difference between white's score and black's score.
But in that case, couldn't white dispute that the one stone is actually alive? Because of the dispute, play would resume, and white would have gotten his wish of giving black a handicap stone.
Nick; It would be cool to see a video on the basic concepts of over-concentration, I haven't found one on your channel yet. As always, thanks for the video!
Great video, thank you very much! It may lacks of a link to the game in some database in the description? Especially for those - like me - who forget the players' names very quickly.
At 31:53, can someone explain what's wrong with the "move 80" play there? Is it that there are bigger points left or is there something inherently wrong with that shape? Thanks!
Beginners tend to make moves likes that (on the edge of the board) because they have an impulse to tidy up and settle their walls, but that move gains you a very small number of points compared to other places. Hence it is so unusual to see it played early in a professional game. I'm not sure why black thought it was important to play it at that point in this game.
Uhg! The move at 21:20 is making me upset! xD When he asked what move black should make, I was repeatedly saying "11-7 or 11-8! Block white's leak into the middle from the right!" NOPE! Turns out to be 12-9. Uhhhhg!!! So freaking close! Lol
Yeah some guy was playing copycat go so i played tengen then did the same until he did something stupid. Only time tengen was ever a good choice. Just glad he didnt pull an akira toyo and make me play aweful shape until my group died.
This game is sick I just watched my first pro game today never played I was surprised when I guessed the non standard move by white in the first 5 or 6 moves. I have been pausing and trying to think for myself.
It seems like this game may have been balanced until the exchanges immediately after the endgame sequence at the top. If black didn't had white the fourth-line territory then maybe it was still balanced. KataGo recommends D6 (shoulder hit in bottom-left) instead of E9, and then if white just crawled again like in the game then it would be bad for white. Earlier, at move 35, Katago ironically recommends Tengen instead of just blocking. If white pushes through and cuts then either it's black who gets the forcing moves or just ignores the cut and saves the stone that peeped earlier. So maybe Takemiya was OK, including when he killed the lower right, but messed up only at the end.
It doesn't surround territory, doesn't threaten any of your opponent's pieces/territory, provides little influence over the center, cannot form a living group on it's own without lots of additional moves (liability). Later in the game, it may become more important, but in the early stages, it is basically a wasted move.
Unless it is literally the first move you play, which is a somewhat viable strategy. You need to have the skill to make use of it, though and you don't see it all that often. You can find some pro games opening with tengen, but it's really rare.
But it is Tengen - the center of the sky! How cool is that? You will absolutely score psychologically by opening there with a decisive 'bang'-placement! It is a human move really, and can be quite fun if your opponent isn't too cross about it. And, reading Jess' argument: Why should he?
cho u is actually from Taiwan but plays in Japan, i think many taiwanese go players play in japan because they arent good enough for chinese and korean competition.
Nick I would like to know how much the measure of one square is in relation to the diameter I the stone. I have stones of 21mm diameter and want to make the board, but don't know the measures of the grid. For each square. Can you help me figure out the measures? thanks.
@@sandybarnes887 I remember when first made this question I had no idea of the game and so forth now I know the measure of the square is 1mm. Wide and 2 mm. Long. It is to say if your stone is 2cm diameter, the square is 2cm and 1 mm. Wide and 2cm and 2mm long that is the proportion of a professional traditional go board. So it is going to be 1 mm wider than the stone and 2 mm longer than the stone that makes a perfect distribution of the squares on the board so that the stones occupy a perfect space and not interfere in the space of the other stone. Jejeje I remember those days when I wanted to have a wooden board. Now I have a collection of boards all hand made by myself,( japanese or korean or chinese boards are really expensive they are not worthwile) stones you can buy them I have collection just missing clam shell that are really expensive and never compete against yunzi and like 300 or more books to read and train plus web sites a lot and for sure I play avery single day... Not a pro just for fun. I even almost understand korean now. Jajajajaja.
I've been playing a lot of chess in the past but Go is a game I'll never understand properly. For me it's just placing black and white stones randomly.
No. Every stone should have a purpose. Even dame points at the end of the game in Japanese scoring have a purpose; They make counting territory easier.
I was the same and got utterly converted. Go has a lot of proverbs to guide players. A good one told to beginners: "Try to lose your first 40 games as quickly as possible!" After that you begin to actually see the areas of influence and territory even around single stones and ultimately across the entire board. If you manage to not be frustrated out before, that is when the game may really hook you! Being a chess guy makes you more susceptible.
I downloaded The Game Of Go and "Fuego" the A.I. cheats on every game. Lol. It's both hilarious and infuriating. It makes moves that I can't get away with. Like passing 7 or 8 times in a row, with no negative consequences for the AI. If I pass once it says I lose. As well as several other cheats, regularly. Really pisses me off. It's nuts.
I tried learning this game several years back and came away frustrated. I don't think I've won a game against a human being yet. Maybe one of these days I'll "git gud"... :/
Because of the cosmic play? That is what Star Craft shares with go, and where its popularity really comes from: Hugging some bases on the edges won't win the game for you. It is no coincidence that Blizzard's classic is so well-received in Korea, where also some of the best go players live!
Great tutorial for experts. This is a fascinating and very abstract game but it's made more difficult by the badly designed board sets. The flying saucer shaped pieces go all over the place on a regular flat board and a single jog can ruin your whole evening. Magnetic boards as here are a bit, but not much, better . It needs a board with pins and holes in the pieces or flat discs with recesses in the board to exactly locate the pieces. This would make the game much easier to 'read' and more enjoyable. If any of you fancy a game on a superbly designed board try here. www.cosumi.net/en/
Ah, but go is also much about pinless style! Plus, being a guy who placed quite some stones myself, I assure you misplacement is no problem even in a rowdy pub. Even beginners quickly learn to repair an accidently shifted scene. That is because a game of go is a conversation rather than the seemingly random affair it seems to be to outsiders. And both players know how that conversation went.
Hi Nick! I'm one of yours French viewers (so excuse my mistakes ^^) and i really love your videos. I play go for like 6 years and my favorite book about this game is, of course... THE COSMIC STYLE !!! by Takemiya.
I read this book 200 times i think, maybe more, and this game start exactly like another game of Takemiya (which is in the book). This game was play in 1990 against... Cho Hun !!!
In the game of 1990, Takemiya won by 3,5pts. He attacked the "stick" of white and gain a lot of points in the center by this way. The thing which change in the 2003 game is the response of Cho after the keima in the lower-right corner.
In the game of 1990, Cho play a joseki and finish gote in the corner, giving sente to Takemiya who can attack the white stick with a pincer at D10.
One thing Takemiya said in this book about his style is that, when he can play what he likes (he likes making moyo and attacking invasion's stones), he's very good in his games. But when the game don't go like he wants (or when he play a move he doesn't like), his playstyle becoming awful.
I think it's what happened in this game. After the Tenuki of Cho at D10 and the enormous move at J4, Takemiya probably thinking he had loose the fight of the center (killing the corner is a mistake i think) and after that, he's surrend in his mind.
Voila ! I hope i didn't make to much mistakes ^^
Thanks again for your good work Nick, your videos are very helpful for improving my play.
i'm a newbie, i don't have a goban and neither people to play it with... and i find this videos pleasing and helpful... thank you ;D
Coming back to this video six years later, the discussion of the 3-3 invasion in the lower right seems very quaint. So much has changed…
Great video, thank you! : )
Very well presented. And I like the way you interact with your class, respectfully answering the questions and explaining things well.
I absolutely love these lectures and thank you very much for putting them here on RUclips. I'm a brand new player so put me comically below the lowest skill level (not even familiar with that yet), and I was wondering if you had buried here somewhere or knew of a series that explained Go to really new players.
I'm starting to glean what good and bad moves are and I've spent hours looking at terminology pages to understand the lectures better, but a resources that very clearly gave a "This is the kind of mentality you should have while playing" to help my reluctant mother learn to play with me would be beautiful.
Again, thanks :D
Focus on territory, not taking pieces. Other than that, just play as much as you can
In Sente's videos helped me understand the game so much better.
@@djchilxxn Agreed, he has a really good beginner series.
I've improved a lot thanks to you! Thanks so much for the lessons. I went from 23 kyu to 19 in no time :)
Great videos you got here. I’ve been trying to wrap my head around this game for some time, and these videos have definitely helped.
I expected: Black plays a stone. White passes in arrogance to give him a handicap. Black is clever and passes too. Game over black wins.
This actually doesn't work (in the hypothetical situation), because you officially have to pass 3 times in a row for the game to end. So in your case, after black passes as well, white may still play a move.
This is true when using AGA rules, which just makes sure that Chinese counting and Japanese counting always give the same difference between white's score and black's score.
But in that case, couldn't white dispute that the one stone is actually alive? Because of the dispute, play would resume, and white would have gotten his wish of giving black a handicap stone.
Why would you expect that if the video is nearly 50 minutes long?
Misael 5 minutes for the game and 45 minutes to go over the variations
What a beautiful game. The end result even looks like a yin yang symbol.
lol Takemiya has played the shortest game and the most time spent on a move.
Kitani Minoru spent 8h in a move against Honinbo Shusai (40h per player Deathmatch)...
Watch 0:53 at double speed. You won't regret it :D
papa bless
No
Nick; It would be cool to see a video on the basic concepts of over-concentration, I haven't found one on your channel yet. As always, thanks for the video!
Great video, thank you very much! It may lacks of a link to the game in some database in the description? Especially for those - like me - who forget the players' names very quickly.
What was the longest pro game? It must have epic simultaneous ko fights.
I think someone ate an entire bag of chips during this lecture lol
Looked like the battle of the Bulge. You give up the middle. Only to realize it was a wall...
At 31:53, can someone explain what's wrong with the "move 80" play there? Is it that there are bigger points left or is there something inherently wrong with that shape? Thanks!
Beginners tend to make moves likes that (on the edge of the board) because they have an impulse to tidy up and settle their walls, but that move gains you a very small number of points compared to other places. Hence it is so unusual to see it played early in a professional game. I'm not sure why black thought it was important to play it at that point in this game.
It's crazy that this guy has this whole game in memory and I assume many others like it.
he's checking his phone
This guy actually does have good charisma
perfect lecture!
Interesting game and I like the flip stones.
Uhg! The move at 21:20 is making me upset! xD When he asked what move black should make, I was repeatedly saying "11-7 or 11-8! Block white's leak into the middle from the right!"
NOPE! Turns out to be 12-9. Uhhhhg!!! So freaking close! Lol
Yeah some guy was playing copycat go so i played tengen then did the same until he did something stupid. Only time tengen was ever a good choice. Just glad he didnt pull an akira toyo and make me play aweful shape until my group died.
where do you host your lecture?
Seattle Go Center
I keep looking for the copy of King's Forge somewhere in the background of these videos.
It's in a few of the ones where I record at home!
This game is sick I just watched my first pro game today never played I was surprised when I guessed the non standard move by white in the first 5 or 6 moves. I have been pausing and trying to think for myself.
Does anyone else notice how the final(ish) shape of the board resembles a yinyang?
31:07 The Go is Going :D or better your App was GOing? ^^
Awesome vid :D
It seems like this game may have been balanced until the exchanges immediately after the endgame sequence at the top. If black didn't had white the fourth-line territory then maybe it was still balanced. KataGo recommends D6 (shoulder hit in bottom-left) instead of E9, and then if white just crawled again like in the game then it would be bad for white.
Earlier, at move 35, Katago ironically recommends Tengen instead of just blocking. If white pushes through and cuts then either it's black who gets the forcing moves or just ignores the cut and saves the stone that peeped earlier. So maybe Takemiya was OK, including when he killed the lower right, but messed up only at the end.
Hmmm, should I watch this or finish the NHK video... "Black... was played by Takemiya Masaki" OK, Watching This!
15-17 giving me anxiety for like half the video
Why is the middle point always wrong?
It doesn't surround territory, doesn't threaten any of your opponent's pieces/territory, provides little influence over the center, cannot form a living group on it's own without lots of additional moves (liability). Later in the game, it may become more important, but in the early stages, it is basically a wasted move.
Unless it is literally the first move you play, which is a somewhat viable strategy. You need to have the skill to make use of it, though and you don't see it all that often.
You can find some pro games opening with tengen, but it's really rare.
But it is Tengen - the center of the sky! How cool is that? You will absolutely score psychologically by opening there with a decisive 'bang'-placement! It is a human move really, and can be quite fun if your opponent isn't too cross about it. And, reading Jess' argument: Why should he?
cho u is actually from Taiwan but plays in Japan, i think many taiwanese go players play in japan because they arent good enough for chinese and korean competition.
Nick I would like to know how much the measure of one square is in relation to the diameter I the stone. I have stones of 21mm diameter and want to make the board, but don't know the measures of the grid. For each square. Can you help me figure out the measures? thanks.
Nice
@@sandybarnes887 I remember when first made this question I had no idea of the game and so forth now I know the measure of the square is 1mm. Wide and 2 mm. Long. It is to say if your stone is 2cm diameter, the square is 2cm and 1 mm. Wide and 2cm and 2mm long that is the proportion of a professional traditional go board. So it is going to be 1 mm wider than the stone and 2 mm longer than the stone that makes a perfect distribution of the squares on the board so that the stones occupy a perfect space and not interfere in the space of the other stone. Jejeje I remember those days when I wanted to have a wooden board. Now I have a collection of boards all hand made by myself,( japanese or korean or chinese boards are really expensive they are not worthwile) stones you can buy them I have collection just missing clam shell that are really expensive and never compete against yunzi and like 300 or more books to read and train plus web sites a lot and for sure I play avery single day... Not a pro just for fun. I even almost understand korean now. Jajajajaja.
@@TheJuaniji wonderful. I had thought you knew the measurements by now. Didn't expect you to have made so many goban boards. 😎
How many moves was it?
Around 120
where do you lecture?
He is teaching at Seattle Go Center
I've been playing a lot of chess in the past but Go is a game I'll never understand properly. For me it's just placing black and white stones randomly.
You have to dive in to see its beauty.
No. Every stone should have a purpose. Even dame points at the end of the game in Japanese scoring have a purpose; They make counting territory easier.
I was the same and got utterly converted. Go has a lot of proverbs to guide players. A good one told to beginners: "Try to lose your first 40 games as quickly as possible!" After that you begin to actually see the areas of influence and territory even around single stones and ultimately across the entire board. If you manage to not be frustrated out before, that is when the game may really hook you! Being a chess guy makes you more susceptible.
I downloaded The Game Of Go and "Fuego" the A.I. cheats on every game. Lol. It's both hilarious and infuriating. It makes moves that I can't get away with. Like passing 7 or 8 times in a row, with no negative consequences for the AI. If I pass once it says I lose. As well as several other cheats, regularly. Really pisses me off. It's nuts.
I tried learning this game several years back and came away frustrated. I don't think I've won a game against a human being yet. Maybe one of these days I'll "git gud"... :/
Shades Go is the kind of game that will teach you about yourself and human nature more than it teaches you to win.
Go in an exercise in Humility. Don't get discouraged. Studying Life and Death problems is a good way to start improving your game.
And warching Nick's episode #199?! Google a go club close to your location already! I hope there is one and times fit for you.
2:28 he the strongest because he kill the others xD
Now I see why StarCraft is so popular.
Because of the cosmic play? That is what Star Craft shares with go, and where its popularity really comes from: Hugging some bases on the edges won't win the game for you. It is no coincidence that Blizzard's classic is so well-received in Korea, where also some of the best go players live!
took pretty long for the shortest go game
Hai
Great tutorial for experts. This is a fascinating and very abstract game but it's made more difficult by the badly designed board sets. The flying saucer shaped pieces go all over the place on a regular flat board and a single jog can ruin your whole evening. Magnetic boards as here are a bit, but not much, better . It needs a board with pins and holes in the pieces or flat discs with recesses in the board to exactly locate the pieces. This would make the game much easier to 'read' and more enjoyable.
If any of you fancy a game on a superbly designed board try here. www.cosumi.net/en/
Ah, but go is also much about pinless style! Plus, being a guy who placed quite some stones myself, I assure you misplacement is no problem even in a rowdy pub. Even beginners quickly learn to repair an accidently shifted scene. That is because a game of go is a conversation rather than the seemingly random affair it seems to be to outsiders. And both players know how that conversation went.
but have you considered
the click
酷