Echoing Deeps works because you choose a land to copy before it enters play, so when you use Analyst with echoing deeps in the grave you choose before it enters with all lands still in the grave. Edit: so you covered it perfect.
One thing that helped me understand it: The reason that it works is basically the same reason that Vesuva copying Valakut while they both enter at the same time does not work. The zone transitions and the copy effect all happen simultaneously, so the copy lands have to be able to see the chosen land while they're in the first zone before they enter play, and not as they enter the battlefield. Deeps is Deeps while it's in the graveyard, but it's the copied land as soon as it's on the battlefield, not after a trigger resolves.
I'm really happy to finish the video and see that i knew all the lines, but even knowing each one, your video was really helpfull to make me realize good ways to explain the loop to other players!
@@redfacedmenace Trust me you have helped, I'm just not a very good MTG player lol. Even worse on MTGO, I am always terrified I am going to misclick and look like an idiot lol
For the first example, correct me if I'm wrong, but if you have 2 lotus, shifting woodlands, and 2 other lands, you already have infinite mana with a single amulet since the woodlands sacrifices itself to its ability and the lotus + 2 other lands make at least 8 mana so the mana from woodlands coming back each time is the extra.
You’re absolutely right! I spoke about taking into account Woodland saccing itself so many times in the video, yet in that scenario I missed it! My apologies.
This was the video that I needed to get updated into this new version. I did not play any Mtg since MH3 was released, nice to see my all time fav deck always gets innovation. Gonna get ready for some RCQs and cast some 6/6s🙃
What land does echoing deeps replace? Also another general titan question, how many bounce lands do you want in the deck? Most lists seem to have 6. As someone who is learning titan I greatly appreciate the in depth content!
Well tbh Deeps isn't really "replacing" any land, it's moreso a necessary combo land. If I were to stretch I'd say maybe one of the Valakuts? As for bounces, I think your total bounces + Lotus + Vestige (sortof) should add to close to 10. So a typical list plays 3 Lotus, 6 bounces, and at least 1 Vestige. I personally like to have the 7th and sometimes even 8th bounceland, personally.
I'm goldfishing a version of the deck now. The play style is quite complex. When vesuva copies a land, does it copy the lands etbs? Copy a simic growth chamber, does it also bounce another land?
Yes it does! It does everything the original land would do, as if it WERE that land. The only difference is that it always enters tapped (if you choose to copy something). This is also true for Echoing Deeps, with the additional fact that it is also a Cave when it enters.
I love the video but what decklist should I play. There are just too many ways to build Titan and since this particular combo is so complicated I’m not sure how I should be building it. For example I would really hate to cut dryad or one of my valakuts. Is that truly an optimal deck choice?
My advice is to test both options! Best way to figure out what works best, especially when there's so many options, is to try for yourself and see what you prefer. I didn't post decklists for the video because it's generally easy enough to find a couple different examples on mtggoldfish. Also, I don't actually know myself which list is the best! I think I prefer playing with Dryad, but it changes from day to day.
Hey bud...was just making a few Altanak brews for when Duskmourne gets released. Do you think there is a viable Lotus Field-based amulet build using Aftermath Analyst, Say its Name and Altanak the Thrice Called? I was thinking like some kind of delirium/mill titan with Shifting Woodland etc. The big bug all by himself is actually decent for just paying 1G to return milled lands to the battlefield tapped (which means untapped with Amulet) so can bring back urza's saga lotus field etc. Or is regular amulet titan just so much more fine-tuned and better that you might as well not bother?
I would never suggest it's not worth bothering! It's ALWAYS worth bothering. :) I have my doubts that it's better than stock, but it sounds like a really cool idea. The card that is most suspect to me is "Say its Name", which is essentially a bad impulse/mulch card on its own and likely unplayable. Altanak itself could potentially be playable -- it's a decent grave-ramp/big threat modal spell, but it requires quite some setup to work. Do you have a list?
My suggestion would be to play this list from HouseOfMana, seeing as he knows what he's doing and helped to make this version of the deck! www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/6685404#online
You get an untap from each amulet in play. For example, if you play Simic Growth chamber with 2 Amulets in play, you will get to untap, float 2 mana from it, then untap again and float another 2 mana, totaling 4 mana overall.
Step one: resolve Titan, search for Mirrorpool and Lotus Field, copy Titan Step 2: copy Titan, search for Echoing Deeps (copying Mirrorpool) and Lotus Field Step 3: copy Titan with Echoing Deeps (on Mirrorpool), search TWest and Simic, bounce TWest, sac lands to both Lotus fields Step 4: transmute TWest for Pact, pact for Analyst, play and sac analyst and bring all the lands back Step 5: in response to the Lotus field sac triggers use Mirrorpool to copy Titan and search for Urza’s Saga and Shifting Woodland, sac Saga to Lotus field At this point you have established the Analyst Loop for infinite mana and infinite Mirrorpool activations. You can use a Titan trigger to search for Hanweir and loop it with Analyst to give all your Titans haste.
Sorry about that! When you say “too fast”, what exactly do you mean by that? For example, do you mean too much content on the slides? Not enough time to read the cards? Do I just talk too fast? Or did you something else entirely?
@@redfacedmenace Hi, for me is speak too fast, not because it’s not understandable but with the video editing there are lots of information in little time. I had more issues with gameplay videos to be honest, the presentation is fine. This comes from someone who is not a native English speaker and not a Titan player so this is not negligible of course, I have to think the lines that you explain, maybe someone who’s expert does not have problems.
@@stefanogiovannini8502 Red-Faced Menace does tend to talk a little fast, not that I particularly mind. Just wanted to comment that 0.75 watch speed and/or closed captions could potentially help you out :) Edit: I think for the gameplay videos it's less the speed and sometimes that the line options are not always distinct and separated. For example, he might say line 1 OR line 2 OR line 3 in quick succession, and if you are not paying attention they can blend together/overwhelm, since you do not have time to mentally process the pros/cons. Line 1 pause line 2 pause line 3 could fix that, but this is in real time and particularly on MTGO you are facing the clock. Food for thought.
@@foxlery 0.75 is an idea thanks. You are right about linesand not having the time to elaborate, I know there is the clock but the editing removes time here and there to have a constant flow, I do not think that is necessary and would prefer to see all the game, even with some “boring time”. Those seconds that get cut are the same that I have to stop to think about what is happening
@stefanogiovannini8502 well it’s funny because when I watch gameplay myself, I watch on 2x speed and prefer vids with the dead air cut out. I think it’s just a matter of perspective. I completely understand where you’re coming from though!
Grave troll would be fine imo. Looting definitely not! The thing that broke dredge was all these easy recursive things like Amalgam and Chill and crazy powerful Cathartic Reunion effects. Grave Troll is just another dredge enabler not that different from Stinkweed Imp, imo. Like, Lotleth Troll + Vengevine dredge was actually a cool deck. Then they pushed the mechanic into the stars with Cathartic.
@redfacedmenace TBF Titan also gets lots of buff from recent cards. I am just sad that Dredge is just not getting any love these days. Sidenote: Whats your thought on Analyst vs Non-analyst titan list? Which you do you think is better
Well that depends on your definition of better… Better in general/overall? Analyst Better for MTGO gameplay? No Analyst Better in paper? Analyst, unless you simply prefer not playing Analyst
@redfacedmenace Let me put it this way. What are the strengths and weaknesses of Analyst compared to older non Analyst build. I checked your video and the Analyst build seems to be overall better because you now have a combo that can dodge countermagic and the Analyst package doesnt cost a lot of slots too. I am looking to play amulet and still a lot of builds with Analyst, no Analyst or a mix in between.
Most of the benefit to playing WITHOUT Analyst is technical/preference. For example, not having to taking lots of time to click through the analyst loops on MTGO, not having to actually learn all the new complicated loops, not having to plan out crazy complex Titan into Analyst/Lumra turns, not having to play with the card Lotus Field, having better play around Moon effects (Dryad, more room for basic lands), and playing more copies of The Mycosynth Gardens. On the other hand, Analyst clearly adds a lot of power to the deck, including making our damage output infinite, looping into a win without needing to actually resolve a spell, looping Ring protection/Otawara/Boseiju even when not winning immediately, opportunity for new graveyard synergies, having a better backup plan in the face of Surgical/Necromentia effects, etc.
Time to rebuy sagas and amulets and goldfish this while on break at work so i can go crush people with titans. Been playing titanshift since mh3 and that deck is good this is better
You know, I’ve actually played Titanshift myself too! I will say that Amulet gives you a similar feeling but is so much faster and flexible. I don’t think you’ll be disappointed. :)
@@redfacedmenace Can't be disappointed in a deck that stays tier 1 forever of not tier 0. Just have to rebuy a few cards since I'm getting back into the game. Played amulet for a few months before LOTR come out and I was pretty successful with it. Thanks fir the video because there is definitely some new stuff to be learned
![How To Play Amulet Titan in 2023 [1000 Subscriber Special]](/img/1.gif)
Something something amulet isnt banned something something complicated something something 😂
Actually so true
Coming over from the BoshnRoll shoutout, very informative vid! Nice to see amulet staying strong and getting new toys
Yo thanks! BoshnRoll is awesome 😎
Echoing Deeps works because you choose a land to copy before it enters play, so when you use Analyst with echoing deeps in the grave you choose before it enters with all lands still in the grave. Edit: so you covered it perfect.
OK well I'm glad to know I had the right idea. I still feel like it shouldn't work for some reason tho. But it definitely does!
One thing that helped me understand it: The reason that it works is basically the same reason that Vesuva copying Valakut while they both enter at the same time does not work. The zone transitions and the copy effect all happen simultaneously, so the copy lands have to be able to see the chosen land while they're in the first zone before they enter play, and not as they enter the battlefield. Deeps is Deeps while it's in the graveyard, but it's the copied land as soon as it's on the battlefield, not after a trigger resolves.
That’s a great comparison
Thank you for doing this. Really educates those who want to learn this deck.
My pleasure :)
Thank you so much for this video, can't believe how quickly you churned it out after my request. Awesome explanation!
Seemed like lots of people would find it useful!
I'm really happy to finish the video and see that i knew all the lines, but even knowing each one, your video was really helpfull to make me realize good ways to explain the loop to other players!
Same actually! It seems a person doesn’t really know how to do something until they can put it to paper/words in an understandable way. :)
Agreed!
Great video man! I love you consistent content on Amulets progression
Thank you! Sorry for responding so late, RUclips held your comment for review and never notified me. :/
This is the content we needed. MLG 420 Amulet, my hope will never die.
Amulet is evergreen
This dude is one of my favorite magic youtube channels. I always found AT fascinating, even if I could never really play it properly
Trying to bring the deck down to earth for people is the reason I started the channel :)
@@redfacedmenace Trust me you have helped, I'm just not a very good MTG player lol. Even worse on MTGO, I am always terrified I am going to misclick and look like an idiot lol
@@redfacedmenace Amulet is evergreen!!
Urza's cave hepls get all lands out of your deck if added to your loops it also allows you to "chain" some lotus fields into each other
YES! Thank you! That's definitely an import land that I forgot to mention.
For the first example, correct me if I'm wrong, but if you have 2 lotus, shifting woodlands, and 2 other lands, you already have infinite mana with a single amulet since the woodlands sacrifices itself to its ability and the lotus + 2 other lands make at least 8 mana so the mana from woodlands coming back each time is the extra.
correct
You’re absolutely right! I spoke about taking into account Woodland saccing itself so many times in the video, yet in that scenario I missed it! My apologies.
This was the video that I needed to get updated into this new version. I did not play any Mtg since MH3 was released, nice to see my all time fav deck always gets innovation. Gonna get ready for some RCQs and cast some 6/6s🙃
Good luck! 🍀
Amulet is evergreen!!
We’re making it to tier zero with this one, boys. :)
What land does echoing deeps replace? Also another general titan question, how many bounce lands do you want in the deck? Most lists seem to have 6. As someone who is learning titan I greatly appreciate the in depth content!
Well tbh Deeps isn't really "replacing" any land, it's moreso a necessary combo land. If I were to stretch I'd say maybe one of the Valakuts?
As for bounces, I think your total bounces + Lotus + Vestige (sortof) should add to close to 10. So a typical list plays 3 Lotus, 6 bounces, and at least 1 Vestige. I personally like to have the 7th and sometimes even 8th bounceland, personally.
I'm goldfishing a version of the deck now.
The play style is quite complex.
When vesuva copies a land, does it copy the lands etbs? Copy a simic growth chamber, does it also bounce another land?
Yes it does! It does everything the original land would do, as if it WERE that land. The only difference is that it always enters tapped (if you choose to copy something).
This is also true for Echoing Deeps, with the additional fact that it is also a Cave when it enters.
I love the video but what decklist should I play. There are just too many ways to build Titan and since this particular combo is so complicated I’m not sure how I should be building it. For example I would really hate to cut dryad or one of my valakuts. Is that truly an optimal deck choice?
My advice is to test both options! Best way to figure out what works best, especially when there's so many options, is to try for yourself and see what you prefer. I didn't post decklists for the video because it's generally easy enough to find a couple different examples on mtggoldfish. Also, I don't actually know myself which list is the best! I think I prefer playing with Dryad, but it changes from day to day.
Also can’t you use mirror pool to copy aftermath analyst as well? Or does that line not work?
I covered that at 12:22
Hey bud...was just making a few Altanak brews for when Duskmourne gets released. Do you think there is a viable Lotus Field-based amulet build using Aftermath Analyst, Say its Name and Altanak the Thrice Called? I was thinking like some kind of delirium/mill titan with Shifting Woodland etc. The big bug all by himself is actually decent for just paying 1G to return milled lands to the battlefield tapped (which means untapped with Amulet) so can bring back urza's saga lotus field etc.
Or is regular amulet titan just so much more fine-tuned and better that you might as well not bother?
I would never suggest it's not worth bothering! It's ALWAYS worth bothering. :)
I have my doubts that it's better than stock, but it sounds like a really cool idea. The card that is most suspect to me is "Say its Name", which is essentially a bad impulse/mulch card on its own and likely unplayable. Altanak itself could potentially be playable -- it's a decent grave-ramp/big threat modal spell, but it requires quite some setup to work. Do you have a list?
Can you sack aftermath the turn you cast it?
Yes!
What card list do you use?
My suggestion would be to play this list from HouseOfMana, seeing as he knows what he's doing and helped to make this version of the deck! www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/6685404#online
What does the amulet do when you control it twice or 3 times
You get an untap from each amulet in play. For example, if you play Simic Growth chamber with 2 Amulets in play, you will get to untap, float 2 mana from it, then untap again and float another 2 mana, totaling 4 mana overall.
Can someone explain the kill with a Titan and 2 amulets on an empty board with no kessig?
Step one: resolve Titan, search for Mirrorpool and Lotus Field, copy Titan
Step 2: copy Titan, search for Echoing Deeps (copying Mirrorpool) and Lotus Field
Step 3: copy Titan with Echoing Deeps (on Mirrorpool), search TWest and Simic, bounce TWest, sac lands to both Lotus fields
Step 4: transmute TWest for Pact, pact for Analyst, play and sac analyst and bring all the lands back
Step 5: in response to the Lotus field sac triggers use Mirrorpool to copy Titan and search for Urza’s Saga and Shifting Woodland, sac Saga to Lotus field
At this point you have established the Analyst Loop for infinite mana and infinite Mirrorpool activations. You can use a Titan trigger to search for Hanweir and loop it with Analyst to give all your Titans haste.
@@redfacedmenace thank you!
Your videos are great tools for learning. They are a little too fast for me, I have to stop and think!
Sorry about that! When you say “too fast”, what exactly do you mean by that?
For example, do you mean too much content on the slides? Not enough time to read the cards? Do I just talk too fast? Or did you something else entirely?
@@redfacedmenace Hi, for me is speak too fast, not because it’s not understandable but with the video editing there are lots of information in little time. I had more issues with gameplay videos to be honest, the presentation is fine. This comes from someone who is not a native English speaker and not a Titan player so this is not negligible of course, I have to think the lines that you explain, maybe someone who’s expert does not have problems.
@@stefanogiovannini8502 Red-Faced Menace does tend to talk a little fast, not that I particularly mind. Just wanted to comment that 0.75 watch speed and/or closed captions could potentially help you out :)
Edit: I think for the gameplay videos it's less the speed and sometimes that the line options are not always distinct and separated. For example, he might say line 1 OR line 2 OR line 3 in quick succession, and if you are not paying attention they can blend together/overwhelm, since you do not have time to mentally process the pros/cons. Line 1 pause line 2 pause line 3 could fix that, but this is in real time and particularly on MTGO you are facing the clock. Food for thought.
@@foxlery 0.75 is an idea thanks. You are right about linesand not having the time to elaborate, I know there is the clock but the editing removes time here and there to have a constant flow, I do not think that is necessary and would prefer to see all the game, even with some “boring time”. Those seconds that get cut are the same that I have to stop to think about what is happening
@stefanogiovannini8502 well it’s funny because when I watch gameplay myself, I watch on 2x speed and prefer vids with the dead air cut out. I think it’s just a matter of perspective. I completely understand where you’re coming from though!
Me a dredge player looking at Titan player doing whatever they want while I cant have looting and Gravetroll: 👁👄👁
Grave troll would be fine imo. Looting definitely not!
The thing that broke dredge was all these easy recursive things like Amalgam and Chill and crazy powerful Cathartic Reunion effects. Grave Troll is just another dredge enabler not that different from Stinkweed Imp, imo.
Like, Lotleth Troll + Vengevine dredge was actually a cool deck. Then they pushed the mechanic into the stars with Cathartic.
@redfacedmenace TBF Titan also gets lots of buff from recent cards. I am just sad that Dredge is just not getting any love these days.
Sidenote: Whats your thought on Analyst vs Non-analyst titan list? Which you do you think is better
Well that depends on your definition of better…
Better in general/overall? Analyst
Better for MTGO gameplay? No Analyst
Better in paper? Analyst, unless you simply prefer not playing Analyst
@redfacedmenace Let me put it this way. What are the strengths and weaknesses of Analyst compared to older non Analyst build. I checked your video and the Analyst build seems to be overall better because you now have a combo that can dodge countermagic and the Analyst package doesnt cost a lot of slots too. I am looking to play amulet and still a lot of builds with Analyst, no Analyst or a mix in between.
Most of the benefit to playing WITHOUT Analyst is technical/preference. For example, not having to taking lots of time to click through the analyst loops on MTGO, not having to actually learn all the new complicated loops, not having to plan out crazy complex Titan into Analyst/Lumra turns, not having to play with the card Lotus Field, having better play around Moon effects (Dryad, more room for basic lands), and playing more copies of The Mycosynth Gardens.
On the other hand, Analyst clearly adds a lot of power to the deck, including making our damage output infinite, looping into a win without needing to actually resolve a spell, looping Ring protection/Otawara/Boseiju even when not winning immediately, opportunity for new graveyard synergies, having a better backup plan in the face of Surgical/Necromentia effects, etc.
As a titan player, imma just stick with the classic build
I totally respect that.
Have a list to a updated classic build? I was wanting to actually start to play this deck without all the loopa
I made a new video specifically to answer this question! Check it out: ruclips.net/video/PTK5K_W86p8/видео.html
Time to rebuy sagas and amulets and goldfish this while on break at work so i can go crush people with titans. Been playing titanshift since mh3 and that deck is good this is better
You know, I’ve actually played Titanshift myself too! I will say that Amulet gives you a similar feeling but is so much faster and flexible. I don’t think you’ll be disappointed. :)
@@redfacedmenace Can't be disappointed in a deck that stays tier 1 forever of not tier 0. Just have to rebuy a few cards since I'm getting back into the game. Played amulet for a few months before LOTR come out and I was pretty successful with it. Thanks fir the video because there is definitely some new stuff to be learned
Glad that it helped! If you have any other questions/suggestion let me know!