Fighting with Scale - getting the size of buildings right: Building Station Road Part 3
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- Опубликовано: 3 авг 2024
- It is right to start building only once you're sure you have got the designs for your buildings correct. I am building an entire street so it's important that the whole scene will be cohesive and realistic. I struggled this week to get my buildings to look right together and this video explains what I did to finally arrive at a design for Station Road that I think will work.
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Your voice is so soothing, Michael - and your explanations are superb. Thank you
Thank you! Hope I didn’t make you drop off to sleep!
Great explanation of what’s coming up for Station Road. Also, on how you resolved the issue around the dimensions of the building. Look forward to seeing your next update. Roy.
Thanks Roy!
It sure is fun watching you build. Thanks.
Thanks for watching!
l had to listen to the start twice as to my ear you had a 'booking gift shop'.
Cant wait to follow this new adventure
😂😂
I've very engaged with the development of your buildings in N gauge, as a Sheffield lad (in his 50s and now in NE Derbyshire).
Good stuff. I hope I can do these ones justice!
Yet another fascinating video or how you go about creating your street scenes. Looking forward to the next instalment.
Thank you. I’m looking forward to getting this one moving.
That little pub reminds me of The Shakespear Tavern in Durham City. The front bar can hold 6 people at most, and the building next to it was used by The Durham Advertiser.
When I first started watching your channel I sometimes forgot that you were modelling in N scale, such was the realism - I didn't realise the actual size of the buildings.
I'm sure some of those buildings on Station Road will hide their murky little secrets, looking forward to the start of the build.
Thank you
George
Thanks George. I think we’ve all seen a narrow little pub like that. There are a few in York I really love. This one was inspired by a pub in Manchester, and one in my own village. We will have some fun with that building I think.
Excellent explanation Michael of why taking your time pays dividends later. Looking forward to seeing the mock up. Cheers Euan
Coming soon, I hope! 😁
Wow Michael your patience being tested to the limit, if it was me I think by now the waste paper bin would be full lol. Many thanks for sharing your update looking forward to the building of Station Road, take care regards Barry...
Thanks Barry! I’m looking forward to getting started!
👍👍Nice update! Looking forward to watching it come to life. 🚂🚂
You and me both!
Looks great. Here's hoping the mockup works equally well.
Hope so!!
Thank you for the little math trick in Inkscape. I have been using it for several years now and did not know that that was possible.
When I first learned of that feature, it was like my life had been transformed!
Hi Michael! That was some great problem solving to see where your plan had gone awry! I love that you found an old planning application to help you sort the issue out! Now that's dedication to the cause! I suspect most would have performed a series of guesstimates - me included - to the detriment of the model! Looking forward to seeing the mock up, which I'm just off to view! Cheers, Ian.
Thanks Ian! I love the problem solving aspect of designing buildings this way.
Thanks Michael, I have noticed that same problem on some newer buildings I am adding to my layout. The footprint is OK but there are subtle differences in heights that you don’t notice until you start placing things together. Your us3 of 5he council drawings was cover. Thanks Peter.
I’m glad I caught the issue now rather than part-way through the build.
Great idea to use planning drawings for scale, I might have to steal that idea. Looking forward to the first mockups & buildings taking shape
It comes in handy as another tool in the toolbox.
Dear Michael, absolutely agree on the first version of the Oakley ‘corner’ building. Especially where it seemed out of whack with the higher building on the opposite side of the street/alleyway. However, when you showed the edited version of Station Road, it struck me how even the upper roof line is on the right hand side collection of buildings. Humbly think the ‘Oakley’ corner building could use some more height to emphasize on its former importance. Still overshadowed by the counterpart on the opposite corner, but as it is a more elaborate style of architecture, it will increase its ‘stone’ potency! Cheerio
Yeah I did wonder about that myself. I may add an extra floor or maybe increase the tower height. However, I’m at the moment I am preferring keeping it true to the prototype.
Nice gap. That will provide a view to Chandwell beyond. Nice.
Yes indeed!
Great lesson in scale......
It is one that catches me out often.
You have got to admit it was well worth the time spent as the over all look is amazing. Keep going mate it will look fabulous when done, and I for one can't wait. Cheers
Thank you! I think I’m definitely on the right lines.
Superb Michael. Cheers, Bob.
Thank you Bob!
Terrific job mate and thanks for the in-depth reasoning behind the design process.
I have to revisit the dodgy alleyway idea as I've found one in my local suburb that seems to serve no real purpose.
In Melbourne suburbia so many dodgy dealings could happen there I've got to try and incorporate it into my Aussie suburban scenic board.
The layout is a fairly large roundy roundy but with 4 scenic boards. 2 LMS-based and the other 2 Victorian Railways.
Go for it!
Fascinated by your importing of planning drawings into Inkscape. I thought the drawings on the planning sites were pdfs so not sure about their scale.
Yeah they are PDF documents. I just open them in Inkscape. They have been scanned from the paper originals and the dimensions are correct. The scale is printed on them and seems to be quite accurate.
Nice!
This is going to be a great build, so looking forward to it. Rock-on Michael!
Rock on!
Great video , very informative too Michael
Glad it was helpful!
I have seen streets with doors starting with two steps up, going to one step down to get into shops as you go up the hill.
That’s a good idea. I’ll use that on some of the shop fronts I think. Thank you.
Hey Michael that Station Road is really coming on now. So in character as you develop the ideas. 19 hours you say and next to no cost! Well I beg to differ. We all without fail forget to cost ourselves, our time into anything we do. Our time is so important and you should factor that it really. I know though we love doing this so why would we cost our time in it is not like we are going to bill ourselves lol. So once again great progress and a total inspiration.
Haha yeah. Good point. So what is a card modeller’s hourly rate then do you think!?
It has to be zero Michael. In this instance it is a hobby not a business and hobby hours are donated for enjoyment not financial gain.@@Chandwell
Wise words indeed!
I don't know what the hourly rate would be, but given the era you are building & for a CARD modeller, it would definitely be paper money & not that newfangled plastic stuff!
Very interesting to see your work flow
Thank you! Cheers!
Glad you figured out this scale issue before you progressed too far. I'm really looking forward to how this will turn out as I assume since these buildings are front-and-center, there will be a lot of detail added. Thanks for sharing and take care from the Hill Country of Texas.
I hope I can do them justice!
That's gonna be so satisfying when it's done. You don't make things easy for yourself, what with the dormers, hipped roofs, bay windows, etc. but the result is always so much better for it. Here's to the next six months.
Oh it's not going to be an easy one, but I can't wait to see it when it's finished!
It is going to look really good. :) Looking forward to seeing the mock up and how it will sit on the layout. Craig.
Thanks Craig! Me too!
Always interesting, informative, and fascinating. I look forward to your progress.
You and me both!
Very interesting and useful video thanks Michael. I’m currently trying to draw up an old flour mill from photos and my first basic outline was way out, so I’m glad it’s not just me! Onwards and upwards….
Fantastic! Keep going and once it feels right it is probably right.
Six months of interesting builds - yes. It might go over schedule, but at 2.1p planning costs it won't go over budget! ;-) Cheers
Fingers crossed!
@@Chandwell Thank god you don't need council planning permission! "That'll be £500 please sir, do mind the paper edges, they are sharp"
Thanks!
Thank you very much - that is really kind!
Michael Well you seem to have sorted out some issue with this. Looking forward to next stage of 3D card mock ups. That when you really start to see your vision come to life.Ian
Looking forward to the 3D buildings!
The latest catch up has started . . . . I'm well prepped with numerous packs of chocolate malted milk biscuits and tea bags (Yorkshire Tea of course) . . . . Let battle commence
Good luck. I’m rooting for you.
😎👍
😃😃
Very interesting and informative. The R.I.B.A. have published what is called the Red Book which gives the standard size for objects affecting design such as, lets say doors. A normal door is 6' 6" x 2' 6" or 6' 8" x 2' 8" or the rise and go of a staircase is 7" rise by 9" go Obviously converted to the equivilent metric sizes therefore floor to floor will always be a multiple of 7". Bradford, Ilkley, Skipton etc are a bit more difficult as they are stone built. not brick and courses usually reduce as the go up the building as apposed to brick courses which are constant all the way up. But floor to floor will still be a multilpe of 7" (metric equivilent) check it out at home count the number of steps on your stair case and multiply the dimension of step to step by the number of treads (unless like I do, live in a bungalow) If your house is of brick you will observe there is no brick split course. Brick coursing is difficult to explain in a few lines counting steps in a staircase is probably easier if you can obtain access. All the sizes in the Red book are derived from brick coursing principles say the size of a bed, settee, chair., school chair. How many students? 30? This defines the size of class room or bedroom and so on. I hope this explains why it is not easy to get the size of buildings right you are not on your own and you are doing better than most. Take care Mike B
Thank you Mike. Your comments are always very informative and very much appreciated. I’ve noticed that stone courses seem to reduce as the building gets higher but I wasn’t sure if I was imagining it or it was just the effect of the compression. My own house is a new build. It’s Darlington stone on the outside with concrete breezeblock interior. You can see the blocks painted green behind me in the video as that’s my interior garage. There is a course of brick-sized concrete blocks about chest height on the ground floor. You can see it at the top of the shots with me in. I’ve always wondered why that may be.
@@Chandwell Good reply and observation. 1st the course of bricks, on my building projects I used to instruct the bricklayers to run this course at floor level and then the blockwork on top of this because this illiminates the difference between metric and imperial. The blocks are metric and slightly larger than imperial. The brick course is put first so that it reaches the soffit of the lintel for a 6' 6" 2' 6" door, which is the most common door in use. Garages don't normally have a normal door in them but if they do it could be a 6' 8" 2' 8" that extra 2" makes up the difference. Why is yours half way up the wall? could be the designer said as there are no ordinary doors lets make it as a nice feature, or the project manager came on site observed the 1st brick course had not been laid sacked the forman for being a cowboy and told the bricklayer to put the course half way up due to the 1st rule of building if ou have an error turn it into a feature. Moral of the story, metric does not work. Why does it not work? Duo decimals have fewer prime number metric decimals have loads. These tiny differences small on a metric block but add up when built on top of each other. Take care Mike B
good vid on channel thanks lee
Glad you enjoyed it
It is steep, but no Newton Cap bank.
True. Very true!
Great stuff Michael , I tried emailing you a couple of weeks ago but the mail was not delivered , you were seeking suggestions for future videos and I was asking you if at all possible could you do a series of shorts explaining the uses of Inkscape , I have watched all your previous videos relating to this Programme but I think with your unique style of presentation a lot more of your older viewers like myself (74) would be able to get more out of Inkscape , any way Michael thanks for the excellent videos.
Thank you. The email address is hello@chandwell.uk. Some people try to add “.co.uk” at the end but it’s just “.uk”. Maybe that’s where you went wrong? Please do give it another try as I’d love to exchange Inkscape ideas with you.
Well, at 2p that seems pretty reasonable. However, when you add architects fees (average $175aud (92 pounds)per hour), the actual cost to date is 1748.02 pounds...still cheap though.
Station Street is going to look smashing...is there going to be a Cafe for the cab drivers attending the station?
Hahah yeah! Good point!
I keep forgetting that you can do math inside of Inkscape's dimension fields. Thanks for the reminder! Can you take a look at your lighting? In the shots of you talking, the green background to your right has a very noticeable flicker which is both distracting and mesmerising at the same time.
We are *very* keen to keep this feature as we move to Gtk4 in the new refactoring. It's a very important feature... also have to make sure it's universally applied as sometimes some of the boxes are just regular ones without the maths. And that's a bug!
- Inkscape developer
@doctormo I hope there’s not been a suggestion to remove the feature because now I actually know about it, I could not do without it. Is the move to GTK 4 a huge effort?
@Lickmuffin When I learned that you could do maths in those boxes, my life was transformed! The flickering lights are a real nightmare. You can’t see them flickering in real life so it must be a combination of the frequency of the LEDs and the camera shutter speed. Sadly they are just the house lights. I don’t have any lighting I use for filming or for the layout itself. I have no scope or funds to buy any lighting for filming so sadly I’m stuck with it. It has been annoying me for months but up to now, you’re the only one who has mentioned it in a comment.
@@Chandwell No suggestion, but these quality of life features are always at risk from this kind of refactoring project. As for scale, we've put together a fifty grand budget to pay two people to work on it and that's on top of the google student, and a couple of volunteers who are also working on it. There's a reason other Gtk programs of Inkscape's scale haven't moved to Gtk4 quickly. It took us 10 years to move to Gtk3, we'd like to do it much quicker this time.
@@Chandwell Now that the flickering has been pointed out, I can see it too. I pulled it into kdenlive (video editor) and it appears to have a 3 frame rolling shutter flicker. Which normally happens when the light frequency is not the same as the CCD (light detector in the camera). Your video appears to be 30fps, if the lights are those cheap LEDs, the ones that only have a single string of LEDs in them, then I'd expect a 50Hz flickering. See if you can put your camera into 25fps and see if that helps. Or fund some slightly better LED bulbs (or have two lights and wire on of the lights backwards, you know, don't try this at home without knowing what you're doing!)
Great video. You said that the last block of shops were the very first shops designed with residential above in Chandwell. Can I ask were their front doors are? Or are the entrances around the back? ;-)
Yeah, the entrances are round the back. The properties are exact copies of the ones in Ilkley, and the description was inspired by an Ilkley Heritage Plan description of the same buildings.
I’ll have to change the depth of the buildings actually to take into account the rear steps.
Hi me and my girlfriend are doing my railway layout similar what do you think I should use for my road and hill let me know
I think I'd need more context than that. I used old Amazon boxes for my hill, and I did an episode on the road a few months ago, maybe you can search for that? Have fun with your layout.
good morning Michael i live in Bradford can you send me a link for the Bradford portal cheers
www.bradford.gov.uk/planning-and-building-control/planning-applications/view-planning-applications/
The opening drawings of the Hill look great. Bonus that you found the architectural drawings. 🖊📐👍
Yes indeed! Thank you.
Michael, just a little correction. _Piano mobile_ should be /piano MO.bi.le/, not the /MO.buyl/ that it looks as if it should be.
You know, when I recorded it I realised I didn’t actually know how to pronounce it and I’ve been half-expecting this comment! 😂 Thank you.. I’ll know for next time. Every day’s a school day! 👍🏻👍🏻