There's been lots of different methods floating about for years,a common few were when your sat on the bike with your heel over the pedal axel your leg should be straight so that when sat on it with the ball of your foot over the axel it should be slightly bent, there are others but as commented they're designed to get you in the ball park and you tweak from there 😊
Another interesting resource to assist in developing bike knowledge 👍🏼 The one thing that stood out when hearing the basic setting of saddle height was, Measuring to the mid point height of the saddle. I recently viewed another "set up" video and it indicated, measuring to near the sit bone point on the saddle side, which is back from the saddle centre. I'm just trying to narrow the box so to speak 👍🏼💯
Method 2 0.883 was an absolute revelation for me… my saddle has come down 4 cms… I know I’m older now and have probably shrunk a bit but thinking back I can’t recall where my old position came from probably heel on pedal. Phil is so right about the window of flexibility in riders. My new position is far better I have reduced saddle pain, have better cadence and less numbness in the hands. Thanks for posting up the video
Phil's a great guy, sparing his time to deliver free tips & advice. Newcomers & those contemplating "jumping" on 2 wheels may also well appreciate a update brief on saddle types. Pro's & con's, if any, of different types, widths, groove or no groove etc. Newbies in the bike store facing a myriad of choice 🤔
Great timing. New saddle came in to work office this morning(SMP Well). Closed the door and started fiddling away with old saddle and new to mark as close as I can. Wish I could record trying to hold myself steady on desk saying "yup that feels good" 😂. Great point about eveyone having a "window"; I found it with my old saddle through trial & error. I could ride for long miles and feel great. Here's hoping the SMP is in same range to start. I've always wanted a fitting but money is an issue, being curious isn't so it goes a long way for one to "learn" their bike components and not be afraid to tinker around.
I ran across the seat height to hip bone theory on a PT site. My seat was at a comfortable height and I checked this method by standing next to my bike. I was amazed how it seemed to be spot on! Katie could you possibly ask Phil to explain the cleat position to saddle height ratio the next time you do a video with him. Great stuff you provide on your channel! Much gratitude.
Great video!! Would love a video showing saddle fore aft especially how much fore and high up a cyclist fit should be and why it helps to engage glutes more?
Again another easy to grasp master class from Phil...cycling can be intimidating to those of us who are afraid of touching anything on the bike lest we screw it up. Thanks, Katie and Phil!
Phil explains the aspects of bike fitting so well, and it really helps me to understand not only how to achieve the correct bike setup but why it is important, and the implications of a poor fit. Thanks for asking the right questions Katie and for your fantastic advice Phil.
I just used to guess my saddle height but it was always so I could only touch the floor with my toe on one foot. I heard about the 109% method which is where you multiply your inseam by 1.09. This is measured from the top of the saddle to the top of the pedal so it takes into account the length of the pedal arm. My saddle was very close to that result already so I trust that method. So when I get a new bike I just set it to that number and it saves a lot of hassle getting the seat right.
I always thought so, therefor 1.09 x inner leg cm instead , then measuring from pedal spindle. But even then, having the saddle a bit higher works better for me .
wrist pain ...only in my right wrist....now hold on I mean when cycling not...err.. anyway...I am on a "treking" mountain bike...actually just changed from a Giant Rincon after 4 years to a Trinx X7 Quest 29"... still same issue on longer than 1 hour rides??? ...thanks for this seat advice
I'm "blessed" with short arms, short legs and long torso... like the tip of my fingers is at groin height when on average it's peoples' palm or wrist that at the level. Was great when I was still playing rugby, low center of gravity and all that. Everything else is a pain, like getting fitted for suits, I find I have to get everything adjusted to the point of getting it tailored is easier.
I measure the from tip of the saddle nose to the center of the stem and that gets me within a couple of mm for my saddle position fore\aft. then I just has to futz with it until I feel comfortable. Center of the crank bolt to the top of the seat rail along the seat tube for height. Has not failed me in years.
The Lemond method worked terribly for me, it got me to put the saddle way too high by around 2cm. Before I lowered it I had to compensate the length pretty badly with my hips.
Had 3 fits in the past and frankly both sucked other than they both agreed on saddle height-crank length - the rest I threw out and did it myself including the saddle fore/aft and was a early adopter of short nose saddles before they became a thing
My last saddle height fit injured me actually, he had me excessively high which caused medial tendon pain and inflammation. I lowered it and the pain and inflammation subsided.
Yeah it’s stupid…I’ve been racing for 20+ years. Crank length absolutely does impact not just height but forward or back saddle position as well (and even cleat position) so just using old school mid of BB isn’t very smart. It matters less for people who cruise around doing 1-2wkg Audax all the time but for maximal racing it 100% matters.
@@KatieKookaburra Hello Katie!…presumably and debatably this measurement is about some hypothetical optimal leg extension or angle between the tibia and femur which would have to be based on where the pedal spindle is as affected by crank length and as the other poster pointed out even where the cleat is fore and aft on the shoe if you include the effects of ankle articulation and the length of the foot nevermind different musculature. It’s kind of a geometrical puzzle that ignores strength/torque imo. The only explanation I can think of for using the bb as the reference point would be an assumption that the crank length selected for a particular frame has been optimized by whoever selected the crank for a particular size and geometry frame…which would require careful matching to the specific rider…this is not a paid commercial for bike fits before purchasing but I hope Phil appreciates it! I guess this why the height is a box rather than one absolute position. Do you think cycling appeals to obsessives?
Hi there I’m with Phil now and he said: “BB is the one fixed point on the bike so we measure from there to the saddle. But of course crank length will affect how far your knee extends.”
I’ve a question. I’m 46 or 47 in Jan. stupid Q. Does saddle height drop at all. Mine is Alu welded in no grease winter bike. I’m 73.5 to 74.5. This is stuck at 73.5. Same on summer bike feels great. Winter one feels low
The best advise I got in that regard: Go all the way back and test ride it. Almost guaranteed to feel awkward. Then keep moving it forward in 5mm increments and test ride. Repeat until you feel a light weight on your hands. Fine tune to have quads and hammies fatigue at roughly the same time, hence load distribution is equal.
There is no such thing as perfect saddle height. In fact, Phil Burt says this in his book on bike fitting. The great Eddy Merckx didn't believe in it either, he would change his saddle height during races.
![Oasis - Oasis Live '25 [Official Trailer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/gol_JnuEtKM/mqdefault.jpg)
There's been lots of different methods floating about for years,a common few were when your sat on the bike with your heel over the pedal axel your leg should be straight so that when sat on it with the ball of your foot over the axel it should be slightly bent, there are others but as commented they're designed to get you in the ball park and you tweak from there 😊
That one still works pretty well!
Another interesting resource to assist in developing bike knowledge 👍🏼
The one thing that stood out when hearing the basic setting of saddle height was,
Measuring to the mid point height of the saddle.
I recently viewed another "set up" video and it indicated, measuring to near the sit bone point on the saddle side, which is back from the saddle centre.
I'm just trying to narrow the box so to speak 👍🏼💯
Method 2 0.883 was an absolute revelation for me… my saddle has come down 4 cms… I know I’m older now and have probably shrunk a bit but thinking back I can’t recall where my old position came from probably heel on pedal. Phil is so right about the window of flexibility in riders. My new position is far better I have reduced saddle pain, have better cadence and less numbness in the hands. Thanks for posting up the video
do you measure without shoes?
Phil's a great guy, sparing his time to deliver free tips & advice. Newcomers & those contemplating "jumping" on 2 wheels may also well appreciate a update brief on saddle types. Pro's & con's, if any, of different types, widths, groove or no groove etc.
Newbies in the bike store facing a myriad of choice 🤔
Great timing. New saddle came in to work office this morning(SMP Well). Closed the door and started fiddling away with old saddle and new to mark as close as I can. Wish I could record trying to hold myself steady on desk saying "yup that feels good" 😂.
Great point about eveyone having a "window"; I found it with my old saddle through trial & error. I could ride for long miles and feel great. Here's hoping the SMP is in same range to start. I've always wanted a fitting but money is an issue, being curious isn't so it goes a long way for one to "learn" their bike components and not be afraid to tinker around.
I ran across the seat height to hip bone theory on a PT site. My seat was at a comfortable height and I checked this method by standing next to my bike. I was amazed how it seemed to be spot on! Katie could you possibly ask Phil to explain the cleat position to saddle height ratio the next time you do a video with him. Great stuff you provide on your channel! Much gratitude.
Great video!! Would love a video showing saddle fore aft especially how much fore and high up a cyclist fit should be and why it helps to engage glutes more?
Again another easy to grasp master class from Phil...cycling can be intimidating to those of us who are afraid of touching anything on the bike lest we screw it up. Thanks, Katie and Phil!
Phil explains the aspects of bike fitting so well, and it really helps me to understand not only how to achieve the correct bike setup but why it is important, and the implications of a poor fit. Thanks for asking the right questions Katie and for your fantastic advice Phil.
Happy to help!
Just took delivery of a Bowflex C6 spin bike and this is exactly what I needed to know. Thank you
I just used to guess my saddle height but it was always so I could only touch the floor with my toe on one foot. I heard about the 109% method which is where you multiply your inseam by 1.09. This is measured from the top of the saddle to the top of the pedal so it takes into account the length of the pedal arm. My saddle was very close to that result already so I trust that method. So when I get a new bike I just set it to that number and it saves a lot of hassle getting the seat right.
Would like a chat about the effect of changing crank length and pedal cleat/shoe stack height on saddle height.
I love Phil Burt because he don’t gives someone the feeling he would be totally wrong
What about crank length? Is that a factor in archiving optimal saddle height position?
I always thought so, therefor 1.09 x inner leg cm instead , then measuring from pedal spindle.
But even then, having the saddle a bit higher works better for me .
Crank length is considered in extension with longer cranks requiring more knee flexion and potentially a more forward saddle position.
Phil explains things so well - thanks. A Question - is there a simple method of determining fore and aft setup, and what is it?
Ooooh just wait… it’s coming :)
wrist pain ...only in my right wrist....now hold on I mean when cycling not...err.. anyway...I am on a "treking" mountain bike...actually just changed from a Giant Rincon after 4 years to a Trinx X7 Quest 29"... still same issue on longer than 1 hour rides??? ...thanks for this seat advice
I'm "blessed" with short arms, short legs and long torso... like the tip of my fingers is at groin height when on average it's peoples' palm or wrist that at the level.
Was great when I was still playing rugby, low center of gravity and all that.
Everything else is a pain, like getting fitted for suits, I find I have to get everything adjusted to the point of getting it tailored is easier.
Great video👍 I definitely think your body changes with age for sure… I’ve changed my riding setup over the years!
Comfort is the key.
Many thanks for the video. Very helpful!
Great video!!! I needed this information!! Thank you for posting!!
What about modern XC and trail bikes? They tend to have a steep effective seat tube angle. To steep to avoid knee injuries. What is your thought ?
I measure the from tip of the saddle nose to the center of the stem and that gets me within a couple of mm for my saddle position fore\aft. then I just has to futz with it until I feel comfortable. Center of the crank bolt to the top of the seat rail along the seat tube for height. Has not failed me in years.
The Lemond method worked terribly for me, it got me to put the saddle way too high by around 2cm. Before I lowered it I had to compensate the length pretty badly with my hips.
Why do saddle height formulae work from the crank spindle rather than the pedal spindle?
Good clear advice.
I bet it's nice getting into that box.
Great info thanks Katie
Katie, I have the same proportions with long legs and short torso. Do you have a video tackling this topic while fitting with Phil?
It's as if you know exactly what and when I need to hear from Phil B.
We have tabs on you 👀👀
She looks great on the bike
Had 3 fits in the past and frankly both sucked other than they both agreed on saddle height-crank length - the rest I threw out and did it myself including the saddle fore/aft and was a early adopter of short nose saddles before they became a thing
My last saddle height fit injured me actually, he had me excessively high which caused medial tendon pain and inflammation. I lowered it and the pain and inflammation subsided.
I’m curious why we measure from bb rather than pedal spindle when there are different crank lengths available.
Crank lengths don’t have anything to do with the measurement… measure from centre of BB to middle of saddle
Yeah it’s stupid…I’ve been racing for 20+ years. Crank length absolutely does impact not just height but forward or back saddle position as well (and even cleat position) so just using old school mid of BB isn’t very smart. It matters less for people who cruise around doing 1-2wkg Audax all the time but for maximal racing it 100% matters.
@@KatieKookaburra Hello Katie!…presumably and debatably this measurement is about some hypothetical optimal leg extension or angle between the tibia and femur which would have to be based on where the pedal spindle is as affected by crank length and as the other poster pointed out even where the cleat is fore and aft on the shoe if you include the effects of ankle articulation and the length of the foot nevermind different musculature. It’s kind of a geometrical puzzle that ignores strength/torque imo. The only explanation I can think of for using the bb as the reference point would be an assumption that the crank length selected for a particular frame has been optimized by whoever selected the crank for a particular size and geometry frame…which would require careful matching to the specific rider…this is not a paid commercial for bike fits before purchasing but I hope Phil appreciates it! I guess this why the height is a box rather than one absolute position. Do you think cycling appeals to obsessives?
Hi there I’m with Phil now and he said: “BB is the one fixed point on the bike so we measure from there to the saddle. But of course crank length will affect how far your knee extends.”
@@KatieKookaburra Thanks for asking…cheers!
That is OK for a road bike, what about MTB and bike packing bikes, etc?
Sweet bike
Yes very usefull tips thx 🙏
I’ve a question. I’m 46 or 47 in Jan. stupid Q. Does saddle height drop at all. Mine is Alu welded in no grease winter bike. I’m 73.5 to 74.5. This is stuck at 73.5. Same on summer bike feels great. Winter one feels low
Hight is the easy part, fore aft is the huge issue.
Ok let’s do a video on it!! :)
The best advise I got in that regard:
Go all the way back and test ride it. Almost guaranteed to feel awkward.
Then keep moving it forward in 5mm increments and test ride.
Repeat until you feel a light weight on your hands.
Fine tune to have quads and hammies fatigue at roughly the same time, hence load distribution is equal.
Is it just me or does saddle height at hip bone feel uncomfortable? I like the saddle sitting lower than my hip bone for casual riding around
Phil 'The Body Mechanic' Burt.
Besides MOTs, can he do an oil change?
This is great! I had knee pain after being out on the bike, only to realise my saddle was to low! Hurt like a b!t£h too! But not now :D
There is no such thing as perfect saddle height. In fact, Phil Burt says this in his book on bike fitting. The great Eddy Merckx didn't believe in it either, he would change his saddle height during races.
❤
A lot people have the wrong saddle height and end up with a bad back me included
Got to listen to the big Man Phil :)
Heel to pedal sorted