✨ Katie and Owlet stream Genshin here!: www.twitch.tv/owletdesu the streams are often a bit "behind" with the content since we take our time with discussion, but I'm always caught up 😁
This give a new meaning for the Visions Users, what if the reason why all those people were bestowed this power was not because of their ambition or deeds. It was because they were chosen by Celestia, to be their soldiers and able to fight the Abyss's army. Think about it, why only Vision Users can wistand the Whitering's corruption? And that time when Lisa touched Dvalin's tear, it hurt her back. The Abyss and Celestia has been doing this quite war the beginning.
Enherjars, the warriors destined to fight in the War of Fate and the Twilight of the Gods as the firmament cracks, the world tree dies, and the lands crumbles into the abyssal sea. Some say from the sea, a new land shall sprout and a seed shall be planted as life begins anew.
They seem to cause more harm then good though and also the sudden 180 after the war with the second who came doesn’t add up at all, it doesn’t make sense as to why he suddenly changed. With the current lore we have I still many doubts about the second throne losing the war. This is ultimately a personal opinion though and nothing more than speculation
@@addisynsanders3805 To add...this is a shot but given the drastic change. Think the Second who came took the identity of the Primordial one? The nails were ment to stop the corruption of the world as it succumbed. But this adds problems because we do know the nails didn't fall on the World at the same time but over time. And while the Chasm had Abyssal Corruption. The Civilization of Dragonspine didn't show the same signs. So it's possible the nails were meant to stop the Corruption but now there use changed. Honestly with how much the Primordial One changed. I'm starting to lean more into a false god scenarion. That the Primordial one isn't actually the Primordial one.
@@arnowisp6244 I’ve heard that they destroyed the civilizations cause they’d be able to recognize that “your not our god” and expose them. So I get what you’re saying but why did the goddess of flowers say not to seek out the primordial one? Are he/she still alive along with all four shades?
I believe that what the Second Who Came brought to the world was a lot more simple than any of that. Strange as this may seem I believed that the power of Imagination and Dreams was the force that as instilled into the human world. The most recent Archon quest and Nahida's story quest (with a touch of the prior 3.2 Archon Quest) really solidified to me on how robotic the Irminsul operates as a entity. Not that this is inherently bad, but I believe this comes to reflect on it's potential creator. Even Nahida's behavior feels as if she's trying to bridge gaps from the hard logical function to truly gaining a human heart, better understanding human emotion and many other concepts in the human world. What made me find belief in this idea would be the quest with Scaramouche. More specifically, how Fairy Tales are imaginative ways to recreate the truth, which in turn would impossible for the Irminsul to discern. It literally couldn't 'compute' the answer thanks to fancified allegories. That line about 'Illusions and Breakthroughs' made me resonate with her story quest. There was extended conversation on how this impossible possibility was being made into a reality only possible within dreams. How the borders of this created realm that Moseis made doesn't have no realm or root of logic. Her explanation of how dreams work through creation by desire and thought felt like a pivotal hint. (For example, imagining a delivered dinner plate having Mora instead of the logical answer of food.) Logic seems to be the primary way that the Irminsul strictly goes by. The way it rewrote the world wasn't even a rewrite to me, as much as it was trying to substitute the gaps suddenly poked into it. To add another piece onto this. During the Cataclysm with the Forbidden knowledge threat, Rhukkadevata's method of preventing was no godly power at all, only a catalyst for collecting the true answer to stop it, that being the dreams of the human world. For how incomprehensible the Forbidden Knowledge was, her discovery that the imaginative dreams of humanity could counteract that I find to be a pretty huge discovery. This power to create unknown possibilities or 'Futures' I'd call it I imagine being a threat as it'd heavily deviate outside of the preset design the PO likely set up. With how the Era of Saints seem to go, I feel like Dainsleif's line 'Those who dream of dreaming' might have it's first sivery of a hint here. I'm starting to get the idea that people actually did NOT dream within that era (outside of prophetic vision), or come to create solutions outside of what they're strictly taught. With how many tales regaled the Heavens as constant caretakers that just gave them the requirements to live on a whim by boons and bounties, it gives me the impression they were more like shepherded livestock until they gained the capacity to imagine, and in turn, create their own answers and solutions alongside the divine that would help them in the future. (Archons and the gods who remained.) This is the conjecture I've reached through looking at the contents.
If you turn out to be correct there's even a mythos Mihoyo might have taken inspiration from: The Book of Urizen by William Blake. In it, Urizen, the architect of the universe, creates a world bound by strict rules, such as the laws of physics, and is opposed by Los, the deity who represents the power of imagination, and Orc, who represents the spirit of freedom and rebellion. This might have been an additional inspiration for the Heavenly Principles (in addition to the Demiurge).
I should also add that Urizen himself is only one of four emanations of the Primordial Man, who was split into four. I wonder if this has any connection the Master of the Four Shades, or if it's just a coincidence.
You may be quite right. In the multiverse created by the Hoyoverse, the imagination plays an important role, it is what gave birth to reality and can fulfill the role of the Pleroma in Gnostism. Even time in this multiverse has an imaginary nature. Also in the second beta of Honkai Strar Rail, it was mentioned that the powers of the Aeons are of an imaginary nature. In Gnostism, the fallen Aeon Sophia created the Demiurge, I think the Hoyoverse can use this.
Honestly This just made me even more confused..because I think there are 2 types of “nails” the Celestia was dropping- first ones the ones in this artifact set and the other ones are the ones of retribution because the husks in chasm also call the nail “nail of retribution” and why would nail at Dragonspine be thrown so many years after all of this? (One explanation is that one of the decenders went to Dragonspine and gave them “forbidden knowledge and maybe thats why they got nuked), but honestly my head hurts so much rn because I always thought that 2nd who came won the war against OG celestia?
Yeah, I also think a lot about the multitudinous reasons and/or effects of the nails, because it's still kinda all over the place. Personally still recovering from the artifact set's implication about the Second Throne as well. My head hurts too.
When i read the lore of this arti i was sock tf you said.. i lowkey didn't expected this kind of lore bomb. Now it's seems like primordial one wasn't defeated after all, every theory was made after enkanomiya was gone up side down.. i think primordial one drop the nails to prevent that what 2nd throne brought with them illusion like curse to whole previous civilization? So in order to save humankind they destroyed old world and bring anew. Hmmmm now the story is getting far more interesting, after enkanomiya lore drop we thought we got our common enemy the Celestia who is rule by the 2nd throne and they are the enemy but now but the story and our theory everything went poof connecting the dots are now more hard.. hope in 3.4 in that celestial nail area we can discover some more lore
Could you put a link to the twitch stream? Also I’m leaning more towards the idea of the second throne breaking the illusion of the Primordial one being not that divine or not being the only divine being. Also the Seelies appear to like the Archangels, messengers and fighters until they too questioned what they were fighting against. Edit: Thank you for adding the link to the captions area. I’m super excited to follow and hear more from you both.
Just gonna point something out rq- as we saw in the 3.3 archon quest at the end, that vase that fell prior to Scaramouche changing history still fell and was still broken even after, even though the reason for it being broken before was no longer there. So, maybe this is the same case for the Celestial Nails? Just Brain rotting here but we do know that Teyvat had fallen into destruction before due to the abyssal monster leak from Khaenri’ah, and that caused Istaroth to have to reverse time and such. But, what if the celestial nails were dropped during that ‘first timeline’? Then, they still would have been dropped in the ‘second timeline’. Of course, I’ve got no proof for this, and this is purely theorising but… As the mysterious voice said, a broken vase shall remain a broken vase, just as these fallen celestial nails will remain fallen celestial nails. The fate of death cannot be changed in Teyvat as we see from Scaramouche’s friend Niwa still dying, despite his efforts, so… is it so far fetched to think this way? Not sure.
I've hardly scratched the surface thinking about cycles and loops, but given my still standing questions I have about the nails, this could be a direction (my anxiety for future lore has increased by +1)
The reason the Seelies were exiled from Celestia aka the heavens is because one of them fall in love with one of the descenders, one of the people who came with the second who come, and Phanes might have forbidden them on doing so, because it is taboo since you are kinda inquiring the heavens by marrying someone who is from beyond.
Teyvat is the third era, the first was of the primordial gods ancient Asgard and the nine worlds was the first, Ragnarok came, then from Baldr the inheritor left of the Primordial gods arose the second civilization, He (the Sun) married (formed contract) with the Moon Sisters to enrich humanity and make them knowledgeable, to transcend into gods themselves, then another war was waged, the Second Who Came filled with pride usurped Baldr, the new flames ironically burned the gifts of omniscience. In the new world, humanity was enslaved to their fate, wisdom from Antiquity was forgotten and deemed as forbidden knowledge, gods were sent to fight each other into a war that tipped the scales of power to be monopolized by the usurpers, entertained on their seats on the sky throne. 7 archons to rule 7 regions, on the mercy of the current rulers of the planet. One archon had an epiphany, her love of the world means she would have to burn it. A traveler gliding on wings in the middle of a winter night. Flaming Sword reborn to rend the clutches of fate, Shining Shield from the heavens to protect from the erosion of time. "Sorry... to also have you shoulder the grievances of the world. "Since you could endure my bitter cold, you must have the desire to burn? "Then, burn away the old world for me." "Rise Lævateinn, golden outlander, free this world, transcend onto the heavens and create a new earth."
I love this topic! Great job on the video! I might be reaching, but as i have pointed out else places, its highly curious that within the same paragraph the speaker makes a sort of distinction with their language. Could be a mistranslation into English? But the speaker first says "master of the heavens" and then goes on to say "Master of the four Shades". As far as we know, the Primordial One is the "Master of the four Shades". So then, why does the speaker show respect in one sentence and less in another part if about the same person? Possibly talking about two separate entities? One the Primordial and the second perhaps either a successor, perhaps a vassal king or birth, or a usurper that has stolen the heavens. Also, I think the reason the "master of the heavens" is afraid is straight forward. The power of Illusions most likely is describing the power of Delusions. If ambition is what fortifies the heavens powers with Visions then they have the power of the world on lockdown. With Irminsul, they can change perception of memories to make people perceive what they want. Abyssal power negates this. Because its literally power from beyond that can not be influenced only kept at bay as you point out with the Nails. Because if the Vison of Teyvat is an illusion, then perhaps that illusion can be shattered with Delusion.
I still think the Primordial One and the three shades that were with it were defeated. The warning, "Seek not the Master of the Four Shades, and inquire not of the mysteries of the sky and the abyss," could mean don't look for them because you'll make the Second Who Came angry for trying to dig up that knowledge.
I think so? If you're referring to the Descender theory (but do correct me if I'm thinking of something else). I'm torn on this one because I know he's described as "descended" in some stories, but I had always thought they seem to be a part of adeptal myths with exaggerations and no clear indication of what that means aside from metaphorically. I think the main thing for me, though, is that in his first story quest Zhongli does say he wishes he could record things better than carving into stone. I know this was in the context of "erosion" but wonder the extent of large-scale memory alteration... I honestly don't know what to think of Zhongli and his origins (and what his powers/origins mean regarding Irminsul tinkering) but we all KNOOOOW he knows so much more than he can reveal. squints eyes
@roozeveltfox right... to the point that he made a contract with Celestia? (Think he may be the only God that did it...) Even Azdaha said that his "erosion" is seeing humanity to its end... But my question is then does editing history "effect" his perfect memory?
The seven sovereigns (elemental dragon lords/ancient vishaps) were from the elemental/light realm. The Primordial One seams to be a complete outsider to the three realms at least so far. About the second throne, there is nothing to suggest that they can't be from the abyss, so possible.
@@ThefOf1000Faces Yes, if one views the light realm as rather an umbrella term for worlds made up exclusively of each element (plus the human and abyss =9) and maybe even more if the imaginary tree is a hoyoverse extended feature.
I think the primordial one(Demiurge) fears is referenced from Gnosticism. In Gnosticism, Demiurge defects god. He has an inferior complex to other gods. He creates humans, which also defective. He doesn't want a human to know that there is anyone above him(temptation). Later, Monad, the biggest god, feel sorry for a human that they are not pure as he and other gods. He sent someone(second who came in genshin context) to give humans a way to ascend and be pure as him (I think this is a Vision in genshin). However, although Demiurge loves them, he doesn't want humans to climb above him and be pure(breakthrough). Therefore, in genshin context, I think that the primordial one fights second who came because he doesn't want a human to ascend. Although the second who came is defeated, he leave the way to ascend (vision) to human. This is why the primordial one was consumed by fear. This is why he sent nails to anyone that want to know about his origin and something above him. He has an inferior complete lol.
Problem is that the nails were meant to deal with the Abyssal Corruption. Then the nails began to target civilizations. Honestly. Nothing makes sense for now. Even the line of seeking not the master of the shades or the Abyss and the Sky can mean "Don't bother looking for them because the second who came will be mad" We need more clarification. And it makes Istaroth Actions more confusing as she helped Ei and Makoto free themselves from the clutches of the heavenly principles. But they are a shade of the Prinorial one. So why Help them free from the heavenly principles if Istaroth is Part of Primorial One who is the heavenly principles if we go by the idea that the Promordial one won.
@@arnowisp6244 I understand you point about the nail. It is contradicting. For the Istaroth point, I think she just help Inazuma from abyssal corruption, which is what heavenly principles do. she help Makoto to the point that Ei plant the sakura tree, which help Inazuma from abyss. Can you elabrolat more about freeing from the heavenly principles because I do not think Istaroth did that from my understanding?
@@tinnakitudsa2529 That's what Makoto said. Apparently the entire planting ofnthe Sakura tree in the past was only possible thanks to a Greater Power (and the game name drops Istaroth directly on the Subtitle)
I think that Teyvat is a horizontal continent, which means that the Celestials created a shell to protect the upper plane. Celestial is the supporter above, separate from the real universe. On the plane is Teyvat. And below that plane are thick rocks and Irminsul trees that protect Teyvat also the divine nails too.
✨ Katie and Owlet stream Genshin here!: www.twitch.tv/owletdesu
the streams are often a bit "behind" with the content since we take our time with discussion, but I'm always caught up 😁
This give a new meaning for the Visions Users, what if the reason why all those people were bestowed this power was not because of their ambition or deeds. It was because they were chosen by Celestia, to be their soldiers and able to fight the Abyss's army.
Think about it, why only Vision Users can wistand the Whitering's corruption? And that time when Lisa touched Dvalin's tear, it hurt her back. The Abyss and Celestia has been doing this quite war the beginning.
But not only warriors get them sometimes its just dancers and chefs.
@@GhostEmblem when making an army, does it matter what they do? It's like a draft in a sense
@@cosmicechoes6123 All that matters isnthe will and Ambition. Even a damn novelist and a Toddler can apply.
@@GhostEmblemI mean, watriors would need entertainment in the middle of war and a great chef could help with logistic.
Enherjars, the warriors destined to fight in the War of Fate and the Twilight of the Gods as the firmament cracks, the world tree dies, and the lands crumbles into the abyssal sea. Some say from the sea, a new land shall sprout and a seed shall be planted as life begins anew.
How is every Sumeru update giving us lore that makes us rethink everything we knew previously T_T
The pain of me having to completely revamp my corkboard + strings of genshin conspiracy theories every 5-6 weeks 😭
I think we will find that these nails are meant to be good and are desperate attempts by the primordial one to try to stop the corruption in the world
They seem to cause more harm then good though and also the sudden 180 after the war with the second who came doesn’t add up at all, it doesn’t make sense as to why he suddenly changed. With the current lore we have I still many doubts about the second throne losing the war. This is ultimately a personal opinion though and nothing more than speculation
@@addisynsanders3805 Exactly. It's unlikely they the second lost and the Primordial one won.
@@arnowisp6244 No shot, bro no shot.
@@addisynsanders3805 To add...this is a shot but given the drastic change. Think the Second who came took the identity of the Primordial one?
The nails were ment to stop the corruption of the world as it succumbed.
But this adds problems because we do know the nails didn't fall on the World at the same time but over time.
And while the Chasm had Abyssal Corruption. The Civilization of Dragonspine didn't show the same signs.
So it's possible the nails were meant to stop the Corruption but now there use changed.
Honestly with how much the Primordial One changed. I'm starting to lean more into a false god scenarion. That the Primordial one isn't actually the Primordial one.
@@arnowisp6244 I’ve heard that they destroyed the civilizations cause they’d be able to recognize that “your not our god” and expose them. So I get what you’re saying but why did the goddess of flowers say not to seek out the primordial one? Are he/she still alive along with all four shades?
Having the nail and celestia in the same shot is so ominous 😅
If u look at the current celestia model u can see 2 nails that are ready to drop :)
I believe that what the Second Who Came brought to the world was a lot more simple than any of that. Strange as this may seem I believed that the power of Imagination and Dreams was the force that as instilled into the human world.
The most recent Archon quest and Nahida's story quest (with a touch of the prior 3.2 Archon Quest) really solidified to me on how robotic the Irminsul operates as a entity. Not that this is inherently bad, but I believe this comes to reflect on it's potential creator. Even Nahida's behavior feels as if she's trying to bridge gaps from the hard logical function to truly gaining a human heart, better understanding human emotion and many other concepts in the human world.
What made me find belief in this idea would be the quest with Scaramouche. More specifically, how Fairy Tales are imaginative ways to recreate the truth, which in turn would impossible for the Irminsul to discern. It literally couldn't 'compute' the answer thanks to fancified allegories.
That line about 'Illusions and Breakthroughs' made me resonate with her story quest. There was extended conversation on how this impossible possibility was being made into a reality only possible within dreams. How the borders of this created realm that Moseis made doesn't have no realm or root of logic. Her explanation of how dreams work through creation by desire and thought felt like a pivotal hint. (For example, imagining a delivered dinner plate having Mora instead of the logical answer of food.) Logic seems to be the primary way that the Irminsul strictly goes by. The way it rewrote the world wasn't even a rewrite to me, as much as it was trying to substitute the gaps suddenly poked into it.
To add another piece onto this. During the Cataclysm with the Forbidden knowledge threat, Rhukkadevata's method of preventing was no godly power at all, only a catalyst for collecting the true answer to stop it, that being the dreams of the human world. For how incomprehensible the Forbidden Knowledge was, her discovery that the imaginative dreams of humanity could counteract that I find to be a pretty huge discovery.
This power to create unknown possibilities or 'Futures' I'd call it I imagine being a threat as it'd heavily deviate outside of the preset design the PO likely set up. With how the Era of Saints seem to go, I feel like Dainsleif's line 'Those who dream of dreaming' might have it's first sivery of a hint here. I'm starting to get the idea that people actually did NOT dream within that era (outside of prophetic vision), or come to create solutions outside of what they're strictly taught. With how many tales regaled the Heavens as constant caretakers that just gave them the requirements to live on a whim by boons and bounties, it gives me the impression they were more like shepherded livestock until they gained the capacity to imagine, and in turn, create their own answers and solutions alongside the divine that would help them in the future. (Archons and the gods who remained.)
This is the conjecture I've reached through looking at the contents.
I can't even begin to explain how much I love this.
If you turn out to be correct there's even a mythos Mihoyo might have taken inspiration from: The Book of Urizen by William Blake. In it, Urizen, the architect of the universe, creates a world bound by strict rules, such as the laws of physics, and is opposed by Los, the deity who represents the power of imagination, and Orc, who represents the spirit of freedom and rebellion. This might have been an additional inspiration for the Heavenly Principles (in addition to the Demiurge).
I should also add that Urizen himself is only one of four emanations of the Primordial Man, who was split into four. I wonder if this has any connection the Master of the Four Shades, or if it's just a coincidence.
Wait this is actually 4 billion IQ!!! 🧠
You may be quite right. In the multiverse created by the Hoyoverse, the imagination plays an important role, it is what gave birth to reality and can fulfill the role of the Pleroma in Gnostism. Even time in this multiverse has an imaginary nature. Also in the second beta of Honkai Strar Rail, it was mentioned that the powers of the Aeons are of an imaginary nature. In Gnostism, the fallen Aeon Sophia created the Demiurge, I think the Hoyoverse can use this.
Let me tell you i am huge lore fan, As soon I hear you clear voice and coherent spech( video). I just subscribed.
Honestly This just made me even more confused..because I think there are 2 types of “nails” the Celestia was dropping- first ones the ones in this artifact set and the other ones are the ones of retribution because the husks in chasm also call the nail “nail of retribution” and why would nail at Dragonspine be thrown so many years after all of this? (One explanation is that one of the decenders went to Dragonspine and gave them “forbidden knowledge and maybe thats why they got nuked), but honestly my head hurts so much rn because I always thought that 2nd who came won the war against OG celestia?
Yeah, I also think a lot about the multitudinous reasons and/or effects of the nails, because it's still kinda all over the place. Personally still recovering from the artifact set's implication about the Second Throne as well. My head hurts too.
Awesome! Thanks for video
When i read the lore of this arti i was sock tf you said.. i lowkey didn't expected this kind of lore bomb. Now it's seems like primordial one wasn't defeated after all, every theory was made after enkanomiya was gone up side down.. i think primordial one drop the nails to prevent that what 2nd throne brought with them illusion like curse to whole previous civilization? So in order to save humankind they destroyed old world and bring anew. Hmmmm now the story is getting far more interesting, after enkanomiya lore drop we thought we got our common enemy the Celestia who is rule by the 2nd throne and they are the enemy but now but the story and our theory everything went poof connecting the dots are now more hard.. hope in 3.4 in that celestial nail area we can discover some more lore
I super hope for clarification. And istg we also better get not only a nail to discover, but Dain EXPLAININ SOME THINGS!
Could you put a link to the twitch stream?
Also I’m leaning more towards the idea of the second throne breaking the illusion of the Primordial one being not that divine or not being the only divine being.
Also the Seelies appear to like the Archangels, messengers and fighters until they too questioned what they were fighting against.
Edit: Thank you for adding the link to the captions area. I’m super excited to follow and hear more from you both.
Amazing video as always ❤️❤️❤️
Just gonna point something out rq- as we saw in the 3.3 archon quest at the end, that vase that fell prior to Scaramouche changing history still fell and was still broken even after, even though the reason for it being broken before was no longer there.
So, maybe this is the same case for the Celestial Nails? Just Brain rotting here but we do know that Teyvat had fallen into destruction before due to the abyssal monster leak from Khaenri’ah, and that caused Istaroth to have to reverse time and such. But, what if the celestial nails were dropped during that ‘first timeline’? Then, they still would have been dropped in the ‘second timeline’.
Of course, I’ve got no proof for this, and this is purely theorising but…
As the mysterious voice said, a broken vase shall remain a broken vase, just as these fallen celestial nails will remain fallen celestial nails. The fate of death cannot be changed in Teyvat as we see from Scaramouche’s friend Niwa still dying, despite his efforts, so… is it so far fetched to think this way? Not sure.
I've hardly scratched the surface thinking about cycles and loops, but given my still standing questions I have about the nails, this could be a direction (my anxiety for future lore has increased by +1)
Underated lore channel
NEW ROOZEVELT VIDEO WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
The reason the Seelies were exiled from Celestia aka the heavens is because one of them fall in love with one of the descenders, one of the people who came with the second who come, and Phanes might have forbidden them on doing so, because it is taboo since you are kinda inquiring the heavens by marrying someone who is from beyond.
Teyvat is the third era, the first was of the primordial gods ancient Asgard and the nine worlds was the first, Ragnarok came, then from Baldr the inheritor left of the Primordial gods arose the second civilization, He (the Sun) married (formed contract) with the Moon Sisters to enrich humanity and make them knowledgeable, to transcend into gods themselves, then another war was waged, the Second Who Came filled with pride usurped Baldr, the new flames ironically burned the gifts of omniscience. In the new world, humanity was enslaved to their fate, wisdom from Antiquity was forgotten and deemed as forbidden knowledge, gods were sent to fight each other into a war that tipped the scales of power to be monopolized by the usurpers, entertained on their seats on the sky throne.
7 archons to rule 7 regions, on the mercy of the current rulers of the planet.
One archon had an epiphany, her love of the world means she would have to burn it. A traveler gliding on wings in the middle of a winter night. Flaming Sword reborn to rend the clutches of fate, Shining Shield from the heavens to protect from the erosion of time.
"Sorry... to also have you shoulder the grievances of the world.
"Since you could endure my bitter cold, you must have the desire to burn?
"Then, burn away the old world for me."
"Rise Lævateinn, golden outlander, free this world, transcend onto the heavens and create a new earth."
So the 2ed throne is not the demiurge but the primordial one is
yeah could be...and could be that second were good but they got defeated who knows?
@@starlight14673 Still makes Istaroth actions in Enkanomiya all the more confusing. Who won and whose who?
This is so interesting!
I love this topic! Great job on the video! I might be reaching, but as i have pointed out else places, its highly curious that within the same paragraph the speaker makes a sort of distinction with their language. Could be a mistranslation into English? But the speaker first says "master of the heavens" and then goes on to say "Master of the four Shades". As far as we know, the Primordial One is the "Master of the four Shades". So then, why does the speaker show respect in one sentence and less in another part if about the same person? Possibly talking about two separate entities? One the Primordial and the second perhaps either a successor, perhaps a vassal king or birth, or a usurper that has stolen the heavens.
Also, I think the reason the "master of the heavens" is afraid is straight forward. The power of Illusions most likely is describing the power of Delusions. If ambition is what fortifies the heavens powers with Visions then they have the power of the world on lockdown. With Irminsul, they can change perception of memories to make people perceive what they want. Abyssal power negates this. Because its literally power from beyond that can not be influenced only kept at bay as you point out with the Nails. Because if the Vison of Teyvat is an illusion, then perhaps that illusion can be shattered with Delusion.
Damn so celestia just dropped weapons of mass destruction everywhere, huh? Ok
I need more wild speculation please
It’s possible that Phanes lost and Celestia saw the nails and decided to take and use them
Redeeming an AWOOO! Lol
I still think the Primordial One and the three shades that were with it were defeated. The warning, "Seek not the Master of the Four Shades, and inquire not of the mysteries of the sky and the abyss," could mean don't look for them because you'll make the Second Who Came angry for trying to dig up that knowledge.
That can be a Valid interpretation. And Orobashi reading the book from Enkanomiya is likely the result.
While we're at all this tinfoiling about Celestia, have you heard of the Zhong Li demotion theory?
I think so? If you're referring to the Descender theory (but do correct me if I'm thinking of something else). I'm torn on this one because I know he's described as "descended" in some stories, but I had always thought they seem to be a part of adeptal myths with exaggerations and no clear indication of what that means aside from metaphorically. I think the main thing for me, though, is that in his first story quest Zhongli does say he wishes he could record things better than carving into stone. I know this was in the context of "erosion" but wonder the extent of large-scale memory alteration...
I honestly don't know what to think of Zhongli and his origins (and what his powers/origins mean regarding Irminsul tinkering) but we all KNOOOOW he knows so much more than he can reveal. squints eyes
@roozeveltfox right... to the point that he made a contract with Celestia? (Think he may be the only God that did it...)
Even Azdaha said that his "erosion" is seeing humanity to its end... But my question is then does editing history "effect" his perfect memory?
What if primordial one is from the light realm and the 2ed throne is from the abyss (nightmother maby ?)
The seven sovereigns (elemental dragon lords/ancient vishaps) were from the elemental/light realm. The Primordial One seams to be a complete outsider to the three realms at least so far. About the second throne, there is nothing to suggest that they can't be from the abyss, so possible.
@@vergiltasev7108 there might be 9 realms/elemants
@@ThefOf1000Faces Yes, if one views the light realm as rather an umbrella term for worlds made up exclusively of each element (plus the human and abyss =9) and maybe even more if the imaginary tree is a hoyoverse extended feature.
I think the primordial one(Demiurge) fears is referenced from Gnosticism. In Gnosticism, Demiurge defects god. He has an inferior complex to other gods. He creates humans, which also defective. He doesn't want a human to know that there is anyone above him(temptation). Later, Monad, the biggest god, feel sorry for a human that they are not pure as he and other gods. He sent someone(second who came in genshin context) to give humans a way to ascend and be pure as him (I think this is a Vision in genshin). However, although Demiurge loves them, he doesn't want humans to climb above him and be pure(breakthrough). Therefore, in genshin context, I think that the primordial one fights second who came because he doesn't want a human to ascend. Although the second who came is defeated, he leave the way to ascend (vision) to human. This is why the primordial one was consumed by fear. This is why he sent nails to anyone that want to know about his origin and something above him. He has an inferior complete lol.
If so, then who is the monad?
@@aeyle There is no information in genshin. However, if it link to honkai star rail, I think monad is perhaps an Aeon or something above Aeon.
Problem is that the nails were meant to deal with the Abyssal Corruption.
Then the nails began to target civilizations.
Honestly. Nothing makes sense for now. Even the line of seeking not the master of the shades or the Abyss and the Sky can mean "Don't bother looking for them because the second who came will be mad"
We need more clarification.
And it makes Istaroth Actions more confusing as she helped Ei and Makoto free themselves from the clutches of the heavenly principles.
But they are a shade of the Prinorial one. So why Help them free from the heavenly principles if Istaroth is Part of Primorial One who is the heavenly principles if we go by the idea that the Promordial one won.
@@arnowisp6244 I understand you point about the nail. It is contradicting. For the Istaroth point, I think she just help Inazuma from abyssal corruption, which is what heavenly principles do. she help Makoto to the point that Ei plant the sakura tree, which help Inazuma from abyss. Can you elabrolat more about freeing from the heavenly principles because I do not think Istaroth did that from my understanding?
@@tinnakitudsa2529 That's what Makoto said. Apparently the entire planting ofnthe Sakura tree in the past was only possible thanks to a Greater Power (and the game name drops Istaroth directly on the Subtitle)
I think that Teyvat is a horizontal continent, which means that the Celestials created a shell to protect the upper plane. Celestial is the supporter above, separate from the real universe. On the plane is Teyvat. And below that plane are thick rocks and Irminsul trees that protect Teyvat also the divine nails too.