Having now watched it, I can confirm that the video is good and everyone should go check it out! Also you're right. The other bakers were absolutely meant to be gay!
The big issue with refusing to provide services (cake) to gay couples on the grounds of religion is that it provides justification for refusing services (wedding licenses, real estate services, healthcare) to gay couples on the grounds of religion.
Don't forget employment, food stamps, adoption agencies, education and more. For a while it was perfectly legal to fire an employee for being gay, evict a tenant for being gay, refuse to service someone as a gov employee for being gay, Not allow gay people to access your homeless shelter(Check salvation army for how that hurt people), or your food bank or gas station or car dealership.
And not just gay couples, but people could also deny services to interracial couples (or just minority groups in general) on religious grounds- like they have in the past.
I have heard stories of people being denied sale of contraceptive healthcare by their pharmacist because doing so would go against their religion. This gets very dangerous very fast.
The thing about the cake laws, the issue of gay people being denied cakes, is that it was ALWAYS just a foot in the door for denying us housing and cars and other seriously necessary things for living. It's not just "assholes being assholes" it sets a legal precedent for people denying services and goods based on a person's orientation or gender.
My lesbian friend was trying to buy a house for her and her wife and kids but were being treated poorly and basically denied housing by a specific asshole and had to switch to another agent person that would actually take their money.
While I agree that the slippery slope fallacy is over used, given the current Supreme Court I agree. Because of course the next case will come and suddenly their past decisions matter. 🙄
This! It was never about the cakes, the same way it was never about bathrooms or water fountains. It’s sets an example. Is ANY business allowed to mistreat people for their sexuality, gender, or race? It really irritated me in the video when it was posed as a “making someone bake a cake they don’t wanna is a douche move” because like- sure. If it was just about cake then whatever, but that’s not what this is. It’s “no business can discriminate against me because I’m not ‘normal.” If you’re going to create a business, you must serve the public. That’s the point. If you don’t want to serve the public, don’t create a business!
Casual reminder that the dude who refused to bake a cake for a gay wedding had NO PROBLEM making a cake for a wedding between two dogs. And the state sued them for discrimination, the gay couple were just witnesses.
Also, this baker/y got sued again (and lost again) for discriminating against a transgender woman who ordered a plain pink cake covered in plain blue frosting. This dude sucks so much.
@@alexwyatt2911 This is why this shit's important. Not only does the problem NOT stop at cakes (you can just legally discriminate against any gay person for any service now), it also doesn't stop at gay people. Even if you're not LBGT+, this absolutely opens the door to discriminating against people from other religions. Or maybe someone doesn't like you and they just make some shit up about you being gay or Trans, right? Now they can just refuse you service without even really having to prove anything because there's no way to prove you're NOT queer in some way. We learned NOTHING from the Salem Witch Trials or The Red Scare.
The problem is the case didn't just say "You don't have to make cake if you don't like the person's wedding" The court case said "You can deny services based on sexuality on grounds of religion". Which in the case of homeless shelters using this has killed people. Salvation army has turned away families from getting shelter in snow storms unless they abandon their queer children to face the storm alone.
I had no idea the salvation army did that. How messed up do you have to be to do that? I would never let an evangelical family die out in a storm just because I didn't like their beliefs.
@@pennygirl015 Salvation Army sucks in general. If you wanna see some other awful things they did look into the stories of wedding rings going missing in their dv shelters. Or their weird genital inspection scandal in women's shelters
You just KNOW that if the script was flipped, if a gay baker refused to bake a cake for a Christian wedding, the conservatives would be adamant that they DO have to bake that cake. I have a stupid story from my wedding planning process. NOT a gay wedding, just atheist. I was casually chatting with a woman who regularly visited my workplace (who was a pastor's wife), that I was in the process of finding an officiant. I did NOT say I wanted her or her husband to do it, I had already mentioned that we were actually looking at a specific lady who did custom ceremonies, or possibly a justice of the peace, because we did not want a religious ceremony. She acted like I had thrown dog shit at her and snapped "Well, you're not going to find a minister who will do THAT!" I was like...Yeah, that's why I'm asking someone who isn't a minister. (husband's brother-in-law ended up doing it for free and we got exactly what we wanted) A friend of mine was all "It's her right to refuse!" and I don't know HOW many times I said "I DIDN'T ASK!!!" At some point they are fishing for persecution.
@@Romanticoutlaw Tbh it makes me thing of all the people back in 2014 claiming that queer kids are just pretending to be gay or nonbinary to get attention. Y’all ever see those christian tiktok persecution pov’s where they’re pretending that someone is tоrturing them until they say they don’t like Jesus? …kiiinda feels like mayyyybe there was some projection going on back then.
@@annoyingkid48the problem is that their holy book tells them they aren't true Christians unless they're persecuted. If they can't cry persecution, their own book says they aren't Christian. It's very telling.
the aggressive hyper-purity in the way the homophobes talk in this movie versus their cartoonishly over-offended gay enemies gives such strong dhar mann energy. people just dont act like that, on either side
Idk I've seen Christians act like that... usually on the street corner with "repent" signs or to me whenever I wear a mask out. Christians produced this movie and wrote this as their ideal depiction of themselves, after all.
Not usually, but my niece got in trouble at her school once and I, as her legal tutor, had to have a meeting with the school's director, an extremely religious Opus Dei catholic woman that audible gasped and literally clutched her pearls when I asked her for a Bible and read the bit in Timothy that says women must be in submission of men and be silent... therefore I as a man had the final word on any issue (I was wrong about the being a man bit, but I didn't know at the time 😅). She could have been a Dhar mann character any day.
Things to say that gaycode a person according to this movie: "doozy", "fabulous", "creative", "knock the socks off", "spectacular", "give me wow". Especially when said in the same 15 second time span.
Being outwardly enthusiastic about anything that isn’t sex or violence is woman shit. Only way to be a man who would show open sincerity like that is to be gaaaaaaaaay /s
Here in the UK we don’t have a written constitution, so there’s nothing to amend. Honestly find it funny there’s these absolute legal guarantees, set in stone, never can be changed… just need to alter some bits real quick.
@@Meritania I know right, and the people who invoke such things the most are those who are saying things that are outdated bits of generally religious thought. It's like: I'm going to say this outdated thing because of a right that was added to change the rules that are supposed to be all encompassing, to fit with the current times. Pick a lane lol.
It's like seeing Confederate flag bumper sticks on cars here (BC in my case) like. Y'all have a provincial license plate. You literally imported racism fandom merch.
@@shegoestothemovies oh jeez. Our the time my hubby got hounded by some random because he was wearing a mask... I HAVE 4 AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES! I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU DECIDED TO BELIEVE! He blocked him from going back into the dentist's office, where our kids was getting work done. He just popped out to grab a coffee while the kids was in the chair. He got right in his face too.
In real life, the couple was already married out of state (it was in Colorado before you could legally marry there), and wanted to throw a small get-together for their friends and family who couldn't make it. The baker's response was basically, "you can buy any pastry you want, but I will not make you a wedding cake", so they left upset, and got their cake somewhere else. Later, one of their mothers learned about the experience, and confronted the baker, leading to another argument, which lead to them reporting the bakery to the state, who sued after investigating the mistreatment. All-in-all, this baker sucks at customer service, and it was none of his damn business what they did with the cake.
Yeah, this baker was just a dumbass. Unfortunately, anti-discrimination laws are easy to get around as long as you just don't... Like... Come right out and say it?
What he did was also illegal and he was punished by the state. He was punished again when he discriminated against a transgender woman for refusing to sell her a cake for her own gender reveal party. The bakery initially accepted the order of a plain pink cake with plain blue frosting. Once the owner found out at which kind of party the cake would be served, he refused to complete the order. He was sued and he lost.
As a script reader, I actually have a running list of euphemisms writers have used in screenplays to tell introduce characters as gay without saying they're gay directly. For anyone who's wondering, when a character shows up in a script for the first time, the formatting introduces them in the action with their name in all caps, age, and a fun little descriptor that could be about their ethnicity, gender, sexuality, personality--whatever the writer thinks is important: e.g., "In walks the DANCE INSTRUCTOR (late 50s, Vegas strip Nathan Lane impersonator)." For the record, the most common euphemisms are as follows, though I'm always adding more to the list: - flamboyant (naturally) - metropolitan - artistic (this one has seen HEAVY use now flamboyant is out of vogue) - theatrical (see "artistic") - fashionable/well-dressed (see "artistic") - dramatic/emotional (when they want to use a slur but have been told not to) - "one of the girls" (see "dramatic") - "a Will & Grace type" (I've genuinely seen this more than once, that show has a HOLD on folks of a certain generation) - [female lead]'s witty best friend (if they're described as "witty" and the leading lady's "best friend" together, we're going Rupert Everett circa My Best Friend's Wedding) - sassy (yes it's still out there) - effeminate (yes thIS is still out there, used more often than feels right by God) - butch, athletic, tomboy (when writers remember lesbians exist but are not themselves queer women) I feel like I'm missing some--will have to consult my notes (I do have a running list). The winning one that lives long in my mind, however, from a script I read over a decade ago? "The QUINTESSENTIAL HOMOSEXUAL."
Flamboyant dance teacher GAYLORD ELHOMO sashays in dramatically, putting his hand to his forehead. GAYLORD: God, it's so irritating to constantly get this 'commitment' stuff from my many, many girlfriends! The guys know what I'm talking about.
These kinds of movies are infuriating because they always paint themselves as persecuted martyrs. Having someone call you out for having unpopular beliefs is not the same as being denied jobs or needed healthcare or being murdered, things your beliefs have caused other people to suffer through.
It‘s because it‘s the only way they can defend themselves and wash their ego clean of being a bad person. I feel like a lot of them actually just wanna look god doing something bad. It‘s like a person making up a sob story about why they beat someone up. They know it‘s fundamentally wrong but they hate to admit it.
I think the "you get a whole cake and someone else taking a slice feels like stealing" implies that there are a limited number of rights and gay people getting rights means someone else is losing them. I think it's more apt to say "you have been getting a whole cake for free every day, someone else comes to the bakery and also gets their own cake, and you're mad because it makes your free cake less special" Btw Willie I love every video you post and my cat loves chasing your hands and yarn around on screen 🥰
Well they are technically losing rights, but those rights were not conducive to a properly functioning society. Discriminating against gay people has been a right in many societies throughout time. Quite frankly, who gives a crap if they lose their right to be a monster? I certainly don't.
THIS, especially true with TERFS they think a transgender woman's feminity takes away from their own, and that just not how it works. There's a endless supply of attract things.
This whole movie is doing the disingenuous debate tactic that conservatives love to pull: they present themselves as calm and measured, and idiots perceive that as somehow making them correct. This is obviously nonsense because they can only act so calm due to the fact that they have nothing to lose, their rights aren’t on the line. Of course the people whose rights you’re trying to dismantle are going to be louder and more emotional about it, but that is irrelevant. What matters is the content of our arguments, and conservative bigots arguments are devoid of content, hence the pseudointellectual posturing.
As a baker, I hate gender reveal parties. They go against what i believe as far as gender roles and the way we force them onto our children before they even understand what gender is. However, if someone wants a gender reveal cake, it would be rude of me to try to lecture them about the topic, no matter how strongly i feel or how politely i say it. Why??? Because it's something theyre happy about and I dont have the right to take that from them. But also, the real life lawsuit was never about the refusal of service. It was about the subsequent harassment that the couple faced due to the bakers exposing them to a hate group. (P.s. if it were really about your religion not acknowledging gay weddings as actual weddings, then they also wouldnt make cakes for atheists or anyone of any other religion)
I have two things (and I’m hoping you’ll be amused by the second thing). First, it seems likely that this movie was touching upon the couple’s complaint that was filed with the state, because, you know, what he did was a flagrant violation of state law, federal law, and the civil rights of that couple. and he was rightly punished by the state. Second, that baker/y got in legal trouble again over a ‘gender reveal’ cake. A transgender woman tried to order a cake for her own ‘gender reveal’ party (imo, that’s a fun take on the more common version of a ‘gender reveal’). After the shop initially accepted the woman’s order, the baker subsequently refused to fulfill the order after learning the event at which the cake would be served. The order was for a plain pink cake covered in plain blue frosting. No messages. No images. No other design or decor. He lost. Again. This dude sucks. But I was hoping you’d be amused by the variation on a ‘gender reveal’ party as well as the news that this bigoted loser is still mired in legal battles.
Also, I’m not a lawyer but I’m almost 100% that your 1st Amendment rights would protect your refusal to make ‘gender reveal’ cakes. Your refusal is based on the characteristics of the cake, not the traits of your customers. Now, I understand if you’d prefer not to refuse, cause a headache, make them feel crummy, create tension, etc. Choosing to make those cakes despite disliking their symbolism/associated social conditioning is a perfectly respectable business choice. I was just hoping that you didn’t feel like you legally had no other option but to make those cakes.
While I get what you're saying and largely agree, I'm a trans woman and I'm not against the idea of gender reveal parties. The name "sex reveal party" doesn't sound quite as pleasant. You can't really tell a kid's gender until they figure it out themselves, and most kids turn out to be cis, and maybe photos of the event could be a conversation starter for coming out. c: I'm just saying that I don't think anyone will hold it against you if you bake someone a cake for that, we get it and appreciate your support far more than you could ever know 💜
It says in Ezekiel 16:49 that Sodom's sin was that they didn't help the poor and needy so the term "sodomite" applies to the baker more than the gay couple.
12:47 "I don't do custom cakes for same-sex couples" so you're fine if it's a generic cake that you just happened to have already on the shelf and your real objection is the intentional creation? to what extent could the purpose of the cake possibly affect the process of your making it? are you forced to imagine the couple's wedding night as you pipe the frosting? truly such a strange place to draw the line
True. He congratulates them "sincerely" and is happy to condone the marriage with a random cake. How is the custom cake different from that? They want to have the cake and eat it too 😂
I have decided to go with that interpretation. That he's piping the frosting and mumbling creepily to himself as he imagines the couple's wedding night that he can only imagine is the first time the couple have undressed in front of each other to avoid sinning.
Imagine living in a capitalistic society that you claim is the greatest and that you support wholeheartedly, but throwing away guaranteed profits because you're upset that other people love each other, based on a mistranslation of a book written by someone who didn't even have a concept of what homosexuality even is, because it was literally written two thousand years ago in a society that was so alien to ours that you yourself likely would have been persecuted and killed for how different you think from the people of that time.
The capitalism remains. The actual baker was more than happy to sell the couple a wedding cake, just one of the premade ones. What he refused was to make a custom cake for them.
I was just thinking what a cool name Echo is. The gay guys would be saying "We want a cake for our wedding." This is just weird. And the scary music! Wtf this whole scene is so weird. "I don't hate you, but I hate who you are." That's what they say. They don't hear that it's so evil. And I used to say that stuff when I was a vangie in denial of my own queerness.
Would you please be willing to define "vangie" as you are using it here? I don't think I have run across it before, and I would not want to run across and apply a definition you did not agree with when trying to understand what you are saying.
I grew up with the "love the sinner, hate the sin" mentality and I think of that every time I see an argument like what's in this movie. How they keep trying to say, "Oh, I don't hate you, I just hate how you're gay.". Like, I used to think that made sense and I honestly don't know how I was ever so stupid. 😅
Your analogy about the only cake-haver being upset because a new person came and wanted a single slice reminds me of that truism: "When you are used to privilege, equality feels like oppression."
my go-to response to religious homophobia is "I don't hate Christians, I have no problems with them, I just don't think they should have the right to vote. Love the believer, hate the belief." The amount of tantrums I get is GLORIOUS.
What is this bakery scene with the suspense music? The gay couple acts like they're getting a cake in secret before the "reveal", and the baker is trying to sell his bigotry to them way too softly to be taken seriously. This encounter did not happen, it wouldn't happen.
As a person in the throws of planning a wedding, literally the first thing I say in any communication to a vendor is "my finace and I recently got engaged." I make it abundantly clear I'm hiring them for a wedding. And I imagine if you're hiring someone for any occasion, you start by explaining what it's for. "I need a cake for my son's birthday" is perfectly normal. Not coming in like you just took a bump and talking about "wow" and "not too tall"
As a person who recently got into the bakery business, he would be getting immediately talked about in the back until every employee knew the tale of this guy who was definitely on something and might've wanted a wedding cake.
This is a horror movie, for me. The actor who plays the homophobic protagonist was one of the two leads of the show 'Warehouse 13'. And I love that show. So for me, this is horrible. You're still great though.
@@reizayin A point worthy of being discussed. David C. Smalley discusses this and says that he would turn down voice work turning a Christian book into an audio book because he disagrees with what is being said, and does not think it would be appropriate for him to be recorded saying the words he does not believe in that case. But, he is an actor, and has played a villain on a children's television show. I am unfamiliar with the show, but I'm sure he has said stuff as the villain that he does not personally believe. Perhaps that is clearly a character, whereas "voice of the author" is not traditionally seen as a distinct character and hence does not provide the desired plausible deniability.
It is weird especially cause you can find very gay positive comments from him on his twitter in the past, so it's disappointing to see him in this film.
I'm sorry but if I bake cakes for a living, I should resign myself to having to someday bake a cake for someone I don't want to bake for. That's the nature of doing a given service for a living.
Also, most businesses have a policy like "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason." Those reasons just can't legally be because of a protected trait, like race or sexual orientation (or until recently, couldn't be because of a protected trait like those - thanks, SCOTUS /s). So just don't let the customer know what the real reason is. Just say you're booked up/too busy, etc. Anti-discrimination laws are unfortunately really easy to get around, as long as you're not a cartoonish bigot or a complete dumbass. I say this as someone who was pushed out of a job for being autistic, but not in a way I can demonstrably prove. Just don't literally say, "it's because we found out that you're gay/because we learned you're seeking reasonable accommodations for a disability/[etc.]," and you'll be fine.
That's the most annoying part. Discrimination laws are just there for people to say "we don't openly hate you" and it's still too much for some people to handle.
I'm a hairdresser. I do hair for people I can't stand on a personal level, but I'm offering a service, they're paying me for said service, and my personal feelings have nothing to do with that professional interaction. That's all it should be
More than any other of these bigoted evangelical movies this gives me the vibes of a bully making a whole movie just so he can go: "Look how reasonable I am and how unreasonable they are! I'm the real victim here! Me me me!" Not because it's more bigoted or mean-spirited than any other of these movies, but because the tone is just so whiny!
I really like the point about having to do gay wedding cakes if you sign up to be a wedding cake baker. I hadn't thought of it that way before, mostly just focused on the homophobia. but it's so true. it's like how you shouldn't have children if you aren't prepared to have a gay child. you shouldn't make cakes if you're not gonna make a gay cake.
And it's not even "gay cakes." In real life nobody asked for any special gayness in their wedding cake. It's the exact same cake that would be made for a straight couple.
Plus why would a baker care so much about who they sell to? Their job isn't to promote their beliefs, their job is to make a cake. That's it. What the cake is for and what the customer does with it has no effect on the baker, just make the cake and make the sale and move on. I could understand being reluctant if it was a n@zi cake or a kkk cake, but if it's just a gay wedding cake, then why care?
@wolvie1618 imagine a kind of wedding cake that you might not support, like a child bride marrying an old man or something. Saying you bake wedding cakes doesn't mean that you're willing to bake ANY wedding cake (To be clear, I'm not saying that gay marriage is equivalent to that because gay marriage is between consenting adults who hopefully love each other. I'm just trying to point out that saying that you generally provide a service doesn't mean that you think it's always moral to provide that service)
Have any of them refused to bake a cake for a divorcee? Or based on a Christian marrying into a non Christian religion? Or Protestant marrying a Catholic? Or an atheist marriage? Or if the bride isn’t a virgin? There are tons of religious restrictions on marriage. It’s nothing to do with faith. It’s ick against gay people.
@@ruthspanos2532 So many people miss this whole point. It’s never about religion. Religion isn’t the law and we shouldn’t be wasting our time debating what the bible says. If that’s how you interpret the bible, whatever, sorry your god is a picky little baby who throws a hissy fit when he sees gay people. But this is America, and it’s my right to worship a god that loves me no matter how queer I am. You can follow your religious tenets, but you can’t force other people to live the same way you do. So who cares what the bible says, that all belongs in church and in the bedroom when I’m down on my knees, y’know, praying and all.
One thing no one seems to bring up is you totally could discriminate against people if you're not blatantly obvious about it. Like in the movie he could have said "Oh we're backed up" or "oh sorry we've got too much to do that week", really anything besides "hi yes I John Someguy, of sound body and mind, would hereby like to discriminate against you based on immutable characteristics. Would you like me to dial your lawyer for you?"
I said this on Justice's video, but was anyone else surprised that when they show the school play, the girl who replaced the daughter was (at a glance) just another white girl? Like, usually when conservatives whine about "diversity" and "equity" it's code for "a person of color got a thing I don't believe they deserve!" Maybe the other girl was supposed to be gay? Diversity *does* include LGBT folks. But like, not sure how they planned to make that clear. I feel like the plot called for the replacement to be a Black girl, but they either couldn't find one willing to play that role, or they've never interacted with a Black person in their life and therefore don't know any.
I come for the excellent reviews of bad movies, but I stay for the kittycat content🙏💕🐱 Thank you for all your hard work. Always excited when I see a new Willie Muse vid pop up in my subs
Funny thing about protesters. Most organizers go out of their way to offer deescalation training and most protesters I've worked beside are way better at stopping violence from occurring than any cop I've ever seen respond to said protests. Many are press trained and what's referred to as police training. Which is training on how to best interact with the cops to avoid them hurting you or getting charged with resisting arrest or anything of the sort.
The only way I can take this movie seriously is as a comedy from the clips you've shown. I burst out laughing at the drama in the protest scene, the daughter fell on the ground like she got shot 😂
I was honestly expecting her to grab her leg and wail "my leg!! It's broken!!", and the father to chime in "the gay agenda has ruined my daughter's promising dance career - oh, help me, Jesus, but not in a gayyy way."
I can't help but wonder if these kinds of bakers refuse to make cakes for straight couples who are different religions or explicitly nonreligious or atheist? Because that would be "enabling" a sin that god considers to be far worse than homosexuality in the bible, like literally the *worst possible sin*. So if they've done that they've condemned themselves anyways, so may as well get the benefit of treating LGBT+ people with kindness and empathy. Also, don't know if I'll ever be able to see Warehouse 13 the same after this. Homophobic Pete? Say it ain't so! D:
Yeah, do they check if either person is divorced before baking their wedding cake? Because in Catholicism and evangelical protestant Christianity,* isn't that supposed to make them adulterers, because divorce is illegitimate (at least by Republic of Gilead rules, I guess)? (*In Judaism and Islam, as well as in many other Christian churches, divorce is completely allowed. It's literally in the Torah.)
The way these gay guys revealed they wanted a wedding cake truly sounded like they were expecting to be met with homophobia and doing everything they could to shield themselves from the judgement that immediately followed. Yet they aren't the ones the movie wants us to empathise with, huh. Like if you set up a villain, you tend to make them overly confident. These guys are anything but.
There’s also the issue that cake is technically food, and it could set an incredibly dangerous legal precedent to allow businesses to refuse to sell food to any group on the basis of religion. Cake isn’t a necessity, but plenty of other foods are.
The issue is that what the baker (both the movie and real life version) did was illegal. His refusal wasn’t based on any characteristic of the cake; his refusal was based solely on the protected trait of his customers-which is textbook discrimination and completely illegal. The real life baker was rightly punished by the state for violating the state’s anti-discrimination statute as well as violating the civil rights of that same-sex couple. And no, the US Supreme Court did not give him a religious exemption to discriminate against people. Today, the real life baker/y does not sell wedding cakes to anyone because he refuses to sell wedding cakes to same-sex couples. His chosen remedy is perfectly legal. If businesses want the privilege of selling to the public, then they must accommodate all members of the public. Discriminatory business practices are subject to legal remedies including fines, criminal charges, remedial education courses, and if necessary-revocation of the company’s business license.
I'm a Presbyterian (a type of more liberal Christian) and I do believe that we don't have to see eye to eye on everything theologically to get along. The boundaries I do draw are ones that impede on people's rights. My church ordains women and marries gay people, and I'd try to change it or leave if they started treating certain groups of people as lesser, because that is an idea that goes against my faith. I don't think that we all need to believe in the same God (or any god) to be good people. I think that everybody has at least some goodness inside of them, and I want to see that light shine as much as possible. Doing that takes compassion even when it's hard. It's also not every gay person's responsibility to change the hearts of the people who decide to mistreat them because of who they love. Let other people take on that burden. Shout out to housing first organizations and Life After Hate for doing the hard work of helping people at some of the lowest points of their lives see the light and start to heal
Thank you for using your faith for good... I was raised Presbyterian and my childhood church was one of the ones that split from PCUSA over the decisions surrounding LGBT inclusion. I was already drifting away from religion but the church I grew up in announcing that they disliked gay and trans people enough to split from the parent organization was a big push away from the whole endeavor.
@katycat5e that sucks. I had my own falling out with my specific local church after what a boyfriend (and fellow member) did to me. I'd like to find a new church one day, but I'm still healing from that even though it was so long ago. But something that I do remember and hold with me is a lesson that my Pastor shared with me early on: wherever 2 or more of you are gathered, I am too with you. You don't need organized religion to practice; you just need to find your people. I hope you have them now
@@Romanticoutlaw seriously, donate to those places if you have anything you can spare. Life After Hate gets people resources to leave hate groups and make community reparations. And housing first charities do exactly what it sounds like: they get people shelter *first* so that people can have a safe place to rest their head so that they have the security to heal addiction, mental health issues, get job training, and rejoin communities. You can search "housing first" + plus where you live to find a local organization that provides those resources in your area
my favorite aspect of willie reviewing these hyper-christian movies is when he breaks it down from the perspective of the christians - it helps re-humanize them to me, after ive been so hurt by their bigotry that by default, on my own i just see "us vs them" instead of "two equally human groups"
I’m finally returning to religion after being anti-christianity for years. I always expected I’d be entirely outcast, but the amount of support and kindness and just people being happy to see me again in a baptist church, it feels good. There’s a lot of sႹitty religious folks out there, but there’s a lot of good ones too, and there are also plenty of sႹitty atheists in the world. People don’t need the bible to tell them to hate gay people. Plus having someone in your community exist and be queer can help folks understand that gay/trans people are normal and not scary :)
@@annoyingkid48 While I agree that not all christians are bad, don't forget that while good people will do good and evil people do evil, it takes religion to make a good person commit evil acts. Unfortunately many religious people use their religion as a defense against criticism, and the good Christians seem to be completely drowned out by the fascists.
@@nobody.of.importance Oh totally, I’m not saying my experience is normal or to be expected at all. I’m just glad I *did* have a good experience, but I know most people don’t. Folks are bound to twist their beliefs to suit their worldview, and that lends handily to cutting down groups they don’t like. The real kind of taking God’s name in vain is twisting religion into a beacon of hate, and that’s something a lot of christians like to forget. edit: Though I completely disagree with the statement that religion alone is what makes good people do bad things. I think while it’s a common factor, the bigger thing is ignorance and denial. People choose to believe what they want, whether that’s religion, science, philosophy, etc. I don’t really believe in a hard line between good and evil, and it’s easy to rationalize doing bad things for your own benefit even if you ain’t doing it in the name of god.
@@annoyingkid48 Of course, religion's not the only thing that does that, but it is often (as you pointed out) used as an excuse to harm innocents. As long as you're not doing that, which it looks like you're not, you're totally fine in my book, and honestly? I've been hoping more christians would stop the out of control spread of hatred, that the good christians would speak out against these monsters, and that's exactly what you're doing. I dunno how much you care of the opinion of an Ars Goetian, but in my eyes, you're a true Christian who actually values the teachings of Jesus, and Jesus was objectively a pretty cool guy (tm).
Let’s say that this was exactly what happened irl. That a gay couple tried to force a homophobic Christian into making a cake. What we’d have then is countless years of christians trying to force gay people out of their sexuality (which is impossible and often leads to harmful results) compared to one instance of a gay couple trying to force a homophobe to make them a cake (which I don’t see how it would harm anyone). Like sure, no one should have to do something they don’t want to do, but we’re comparing someone asking you to do your job to being asked to repress your sexuality. They simply aren’t anywhere near on the same level of harm.
No one can be forced to make a baked good. And no one (even the government) wants to do such a thing. When businesses violate the law, there are legal remedies. If a business is not compliant with anti-discrimination statutes, then the company/owner may be subject to fines, criminal charges, remedial education classes, and if necessary-revocation of the company’s business license. This idea that people wanting to “force” bakers to make a cake is intentionally absurd. That rhetoric intentionally creates an illusion that the only possible remedy to the problem (i.e. forced baking) is absurd, impractical, and intolerable. They want to give people the impression that there’s no workable solution to the problem. But that’s just an outright lie. Neither the solution nor the base of the problem (non-compliance) is complex or strange or novel or absurd or impossible. This is very simple; businesses that violate the law are subject to legal remedies. Done and done. It’s easy to fall into the trap laid by bigots. That’s why they laid the trap in the first place.
@@alexwyatt2911 It's literally someone complaining that they're being asked to do their job. As Willie said, if you don't want to make a cake for a gay couple, then you probably shouldn't be in the cake-making business. The only argument I've heard from christians is that since they view homosexuality as a crime similar to murder, they thus view supporting homosexuality as supporting murder (though they have said that they're ok with accepting it, which is quite odd, as I've never heard anyone suggest that we ought to accept murderers). Based on this view, I suppose they view making a cake for a gay couple's wedding as comparable to selling a gun to a known murderer. The obvious difference being that being accepting and/or supportive of murderers would lead to the destruction of society as we know it, while being accepting and/or supporting of gay people does no harm to anyone except good ol' sky daddy who apparently hates when gay people do gay things yet can never be bothered to come down and do something about it (gee I wonder why). I'm just so tired of the dishonest bs that christians keep spewing. It's so pathetic that since they can't make a good argument against gay people irl, they've resorted to making movies where they can paint gay people to be the imaginary villains they view them as. It's truly despicable behavior.
nah they deserved that lawsuit and getting exposed for being homophobic, the problem with these ppl is that they KNOW that most of us won't do anything but I would've gone crazy too, this is unacceptable and when you don't speak up about something it affects others as you said later on
If I remember the case right, the legal reason they can’t use the 1st amendment to discriminate is because the bakery isn’t a person, it’s a business. I business can’t practice a religion. Now if this guy didn’t have an llc, and he just baked cakes for fun, he would be totally within his rights to refuse service.
That’s the legal thrust of it. In the US, businesses open to the public must comply with the Public Accommodations requirements contained within the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Essentially, a business cannot refuse goods and/or services to a customer if that refusal is based on the protected trait(s) of that customer. A business can refuse customers goods/services for non-discriminatory reasons. For example, a t-shirt print shop is legally permitted to refuse to make a t-shirt with a Confederate flag because the owner is offended by that imagery. The owner wouldn’t make that t-shirt for _any_ customer; their refusal is based solely on the characteristics/content of the requested t-shirt. The 1st Amendment prohibits the government from compelling the t-shirt shop owner to create speech which they find offensive. Now, 1st Amendment does _not_ protect the discriminatory action taken by the baker. The baker (both the movie and the real life version) refused goods and services based on the customers’ protected trait; that’s illegal discrimination. He didn’t find anything about the cake itself to be objectionable or offensive or at odds with his religious beliefs. He would have willingly created that identical cake and happily sold it to a different-sex couple. That refusal is a flagrant violation of state law, federal law, and the civil rights of that same-sex couple (both the movie and real life version). The baker/y was rightly punished by the state for his infraction.
funny that it starts like that cause the church literally censored and obligated artists to make what they wanted against their beliefs to fit their own narrative since forever lol
@@ashvander7864frrrr it was such a great show, but it really devolved when they kept escalating the world ending threats instead of the episodic story that suited it much better.
i was looking for someone else who noticed this! i had to look it up cause i didn't want it to be true, but yep, that's eddie mcclintock, who played pete on warehouse 13. that was one of my favorite shows as a teenager and damn it's depressing to see that this is what he's doing now :(
Around 19:50 you should really be careful telling anyone you think they should just move out of their homophobic town. A lot of people do cause it's safer and easier living somewhere more inclusive, a whole lot more can't because just picking up and leaving is hard and expensive, but the core of this kind of discussion should always be that no one should HAVE TO leave their home. It's their hometown as much as it is any homophobes.
I understand and wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment that no-one should HAVE to, but saying "don't recommend moving" feels too much like "don't tell people to leave their abusive relationships" for me to think it's bad advice.
The main issue is that if your business serves the public, then you must serve all of the public & not pick & choose who you serve. It's one thing to deny service to people for something like no shoes or shirt, but it's another to apply that to people based on their sexuality as it opens the door for businesses to deny services to certain groups & it wouldn't just be shops. It could be doctors, lawyers, real estate, etc that could deny services to someone all because their existence goes against that person's religious beliefs. Like imagine needing to see a doctor for a medical issue but then being told you can't because it goes against their religion or wanting buy a home but getting turned down because of your race, sex, gender identity, sexuality, ethnicity, etc
Exactly. Imagine if we had a US Supreme Court that permitted companies a religious exemption that sidestepped the federal law requiring insurance plans to include coverage for contraceptives. Just _imagine_ that. 🫠 And I don’t even want to discuss the SCOTUS ruling for 303 Creative v. Elenis. Disgusting. The Republican appointed justices are a plague on this world.
Holy crap Echo thank you - I was literally just having a difficult time last night with the fact that my stamina has basically been halved since my chronic illness started and I felt lazy compared to other people. That was really sweet, you don’t know how much that small shoutout meant to me, it felt perfect 😭😭 Now it’s time to watch some homophobic garbage (lol)
As a cake decorator at an Albertson's (since they are the same person as Safeway) I do take some offense at the comparison. My cakes can be much cooler than that. I am also a queer person who has done cakes for same sex couple weddings, so I'm way cooler anyway. 🤷♀️
Honestly I think you nailed it. When I saw the story that this is inspired by I was like ok, you have a right to refuse service. But if you can't make custom wedding cakes for one group of people just stop making custom wedding cakes at all. You're still a baker without custom wedding cakes.
He did actually. His bakery no longer sells wedding cakes because he refuses to abide by state and federal laws that prohibit him from refusing goods and/or services based on customers’ protected traits.
i have nothing to add because you just hit the nail on the head on pretty much every point of this conversation ahejsak thanks for another great one, willie!
Wasn't the original case of homophobic bakers getting sued because the couple put down a hefty deposit and the bakery decided to keep the money while also not making the cake? Also, Pete from Warehouse 13! No wonder his character felt so gross and him ending up with bi-coded Mika felt so wrong.
No, the original case was that the baker violated state and federal law by refusing a good and service based on the customers’ protected trait. The baker/y was sued, then he lost and was punished by the state. Now, his bakery does not sell wedding cakes because he will not comply with the state and federal laws that prohibit businesses from engaging in discriminatory practices.
If you own a business that sells good to the public, then you shouldn't be able to discriminate. Full stop. Then again I'd lowkey wanna know if the baker I wanted to hire for my gay wedding was a homophobe so that I don't give them money...
The bakery this is based on is located across the street from my favorite restaurant. The urge to throw 💩 at their door has crossed my mind before, but I've thought better of it 😅
I qm curious, how are events and especially the characters similar or different? Are the owners really those soft spoken "nice" people? Did protesters push their daughter?
The beginning is so anti god tbh. The way that baker was like 'guys I am so sorry, I would love to bake your cake, but, you know how it is, god doesn't want me to' As if his allegedly loving and peaceful god came down and told him personally 'look, you doing a woman's work and bake cakes is alright BUT...no cakes for the gays. Are we clear?' Sounds like alright asshole for a god if you ask me.
I think what offends me most about this movie is that no one bothered to write a script for it. They assumed the story was so compelling it would just write itself, and the actors awkwardly stumbled through the entire thing. If you're gonna be homophobic, at least make it ✨sparkle✨
My days go from "eh whatever" to "It's a Willie Day" when I see a new video pop up. Of course, I'm on the patreon, so I do get the preview emails, so it really shouldn't be as much of a surprise as it apparently is.
Baker: I have refused to give you my service based on my belief. I am a hero cause of this! Teacher: I have refused to give you a starring role based on my belief. I am an antagonist cause of this! These Christian movies and their hypocrisies...
The thought of promising an almighty being that you will not make baked goods for those horrible Other People That Are Not Us is so utterly bizarre, I feel like only a near lifetime of being baked by weird Christian takes would make it seem reasonable. It's dessert for goodness sakes - they aren't asking you to blaspheme, just put the ingredients together weirdos. It's also really frustrating how blatantly Christian so many American businesses are. My last workplace wouldn't give us most bank holidays but would give us Good Friday off. I interviewed at a place that stated that they straight up have a morning prayer everyday on the factory floor. It's so freaking uncomfortable as someone who was technically former Catholic, but also is currently agnostic. And yet these places never get criticized for being discriminatory, when they probably should. They weren't even making Christian stuff! It was like pet supplies and boxes! God isn't involved!
There's a saying that i think that perfectly fits this movie and the conservatives in general "When you've always lived in privilege, equality feels like oppression"
Ah finally, another video where you pose for the thumbnail. There was some other stuff in the video but I skipped all that to get to the important part.
Correct response: just start praying in the bakery. Not in a mocking way, but in a way that makes it clear to observers that you're praying. After a few minutes of apparent silent prayer, stop praying and go, "It's okay - I just checked with God, and He said He doesn't mind. He wants you to bake the cake."
I don't know what part I find more funny. The fact that it took me 6 minutes to realize that that was Eddie McClintock in the lead because I'm used to seeing him with no facial hair or the fact that he's actually an ally for LGBTQA+. Super sweet amazing dude. One of my favorite con meets.
So. My bi crippled ass is trapped in this tiny town. If I could move. I would have done so long before I started looking gay. Now that I wear pink out and about, these boomers ignore me so hard. There’s no way in hell anyone would marry me, but I definitely don’t really have that much choice in business. I can’t even avoid the racism if I want the fraction of the tax taken off my purchases after I finally got my native id after over 30 years of genocide keeping me in the dark about my heritage. The last time I got it out I got a lecture about American football team names (and) aunt jemima. “Just go somewhere else” simply isn’t an option. On a side note, it’s funny when boomer couples interact with me now, usually the wife is ok and likes my dog, the husband angrily keeps walking and pointedly ignores me. Then the wife I guess learns her lesson and they both start ignoring me. (It was a day and night change when I wore black headphones, most people said hi, then the next day they stopped). Edited autocorrect
1:52 Congrats, Echo! I have no idea who you are but I just started going to college full time (last year I went part time) and it’s been really taxing - especially when it comes to my relationships with my family. Persevering and graduating while dealing with health (mental & physical) struggles is a huge deal and I hope that one day I do the same :) Congrats again, if you see this
I dont wanna say anything or assume based on the way you talk and act, but I recognize a lot of mannerisms, physically and vocally, that I share with you, and if what I'm thinking is indeed the case.. I'm really happy to see someone who acts and talks similar to me make entire youtube videos, being funny, getting views, and getting famous, etc. You're a big inspiration to me already and I just found your channel! Im subscribing and can't wait to see more videos from you! :D
this might be your best movie commentary video so far, I laughed I cry-laughed I nodded my head in agreement to the screen as if you were in the room with me. Fun times!
this feels like the movie version of that Office bit where Michael Scott calls something a hate crime and Stanley says "That's not what a hate crime is" "WELL I HATED IT!".
You actually nailed the pronunciation! Can't wait to hear your more in-depth take on this trash!
Wooo!!! I'm glad!!!! Thank you finding the movie! Can't wait to watch your video now that I can't accidentally steal ideas from you if I do!!!
Having now watched it, I can confirm that the video is good and everyone should go check it out!
Also you're right. The other bakers were absolutely meant to be gay!
We love creators supporting other creators
Maybe a collab?
I've been following you both for a while and think your styles of humor might gel well.
❤
The big issue with refusing to provide services (cake) to gay couples on the grounds of religion is that it provides justification for refusing services (wedding licenses, real estate services, healthcare) to gay couples on the grounds of religion.
And that these companies are taking space in the cities being funded by gay couples.
Don't forget employment, food stamps, adoption agencies, education and more. For a while it was perfectly legal to fire an employee for being gay, evict a tenant for being gay, refuse to service someone as a gov employee for being gay, Not allow gay people to access your homeless shelter(Check salvation army for how that hurt people), or your food bank or gas station or car dealership.
And not just gay couples, but people could also deny services to interracial couples (or just minority groups in general) on religious grounds- like they have in the past.
@@BaphometGaming69 they’re really counting on their being homophobic black dudes.
I have heard stories of people being denied sale of contraceptive healthcare by their pharmacist because doing so would go against their religion. This gets very dangerous very fast.
The thing about the cake laws, the issue of gay people being denied cakes, is that it was ALWAYS just a foot in the door for denying us housing and cars and other seriously necessary things for living. It's not just "assholes being assholes" it sets a legal precedent for people denying services and goods based on a person's orientation or gender.
My lesbian friend was trying to buy a house for her and her wife and kids but were being treated poorly and basically denied housing by a specific asshole and had to switch to another agent person that would actually take their money.
You might not care if a cake maker wont make your gay cake, but you would care a lot more of a doctor wont fix your dying heart because youre gay.
I just can't imagine the story would play the same if couple was refused because they were an interracial couple.
While I agree that the slippery slope fallacy is over used, given the current Supreme Court I agree. Because of course the next case will come and suddenly their past decisions matter. 🙄
This! It was never about the cakes, the same way it was never about bathrooms or water fountains. It’s sets an example. Is ANY business allowed to mistreat people for their sexuality, gender, or race?
It really irritated me in the video when it was posed as a “making someone bake a cake they don’t wanna is a douche move” because like- sure. If it was just about cake then whatever, but that’s not what this is. It’s “no business can discriminate against me because I’m not ‘normal.”
If you’re going to create a business, you must serve the public. That’s the point. If you don’t want to serve the public, don’t create a business!
Casual reminder that the dude who refused to bake a cake for a gay wedding had NO PROBLEM making a cake for a wedding between two dogs. And the state sued them for discrimination, the gay couple were just witnesses.
Also also the Supreme Court didn’t affirm the right to discriminate, they said that the lower court wasn’t religiously neutral enough in the ruling.
@@rb6435 THANK YOU. It’s possible that you’re only the second or third person I’ve encountered who knows the actual facts of this case.
Also, this baker/y got sued again (and lost again) for discriminating against a transgender woman who ordered a plain pink cake covered in plain blue frosting.
This dude sucks so much.
Yep. He's just a bigot
@@alexwyatt2911 This is why this shit's important.
Not only does the problem NOT stop at cakes (you can just legally discriminate against any gay person for any service now), it also doesn't stop at gay people.
Even if you're not LBGT+, this absolutely opens the door to discriminating against people from other religions. Or maybe someone doesn't like you and they just make some shit up about you being gay or Trans, right? Now they can just refuse you service without even really having to prove anything because there's no way to prove you're NOT queer in some way.
We learned NOTHING from the Salem Witch Trials or The Red Scare.
The problem is the case didn't just say "You don't have to make cake if you don't like the person's wedding" The court case said "You can deny services based on sexuality on grounds of religion". Which in the case of homeless shelters using this has killed people. Salvation army has turned away families from getting shelter in snow storms unless they abandon their queer children to face the storm alone.
I had no idea the salvation army did that. How messed up do you have to be to do that? I would never let an evangelical family die out in a storm just because I didn't like their beliefs.
@@pennygirl015 Salvation Army sucks in general. If you wanna see some other awful things they did look into the stories of wedding rings going missing in their dv shelters. Or their weird genital inspection scandal in women's shelters
@@pennygirl015 It depends on which evangelical family we are talking about, the Phelps and the Falwells come to mind
You just KNOW that if the script was flipped, if a gay baker refused to bake a cake for a Christian wedding, the conservatives would be adamant that they DO have to bake that cake.
I have a stupid story from my wedding planning process. NOT a gay wedding, just atheist. I was casually chatting with a woman who regularly visited my workplace (who was a pastor's wife), that I was in the process of finding an officiant. I did NOT say I wanted her or her husband to do it, I had already mentioned that we were actually looking at a specific lady who did custom ceremonies, or possibly a justice of the peace, because we did not want a religious ceremony. She acted like I had thrown dog shit at her and snapped "Well, you're not going to find a minister who will do THAT!" I was like...Yeah, that's why I'm asking someone who isn't a minister. (husband's brother-in-law ended up doing it for free and we got exactly what we wanted)
A friend of mine was all "It's her right to refuse!" and I don't know HOW many times I said "I DIDN'T ASK!!!"
At some point they are fishing for persecution.
at _some_ point? At EVERY point. They associate being persecuted with being morally superior
@@Romanticoutlaw Tbh it makes me thing of all the people back in 2014 claiming that queer kids are just pretending to be gay or nonbinary to get attention. Y’all ever see those christian tiktok persecution pov’s where they’re pretending that someone is tоrturing them until they say they don’t like Jesus? …kiiinda feels like mayyyybe there was some projection going on back then.
@@annoyingkid48the problem is that their holy book tells them they aren't true Christians unless they're persecuted. If they can't cry persecution, their own book says they aren't Christian. It's very telling.
They’ve been pretending to be persecuted since the Crusades ☠️
@@annoyingkid48back when I was in highschool lots of kids did
the aggressive hyper-purity in the way the homophobes talk in this movie versus their cartoonishly over-offended gay enemies gives such strong dhar mann energy. people just dont act like that, on either side
Idk I've seen Christians act like that... usually on the street corner with "repent" signs or to me whenever I wear a mask out.
Christians produced this movie and wrote this as their ideal depiction of themselves, after all.
FRESH SANS
Not usually, but my niece got in trouble at her school once and I, as her legal tutor, had to have a meeting with the school's director, an extremely religious Opus Dei catholic woman that audible gasped and literally clutched her pearls when I asked her for a Bible and read the bit in Timothy that says women must be in submission of men and be silent... therefore I as a man had the final word on any issue (I was wrong about the being a man bit, but I didn't know at the time 😅).
She could have been a Dhar mann character any day.
Things to say that gaycode a person according to this movie: "doozy", "fabulous", "creative", "knock the socks off", "spectacular", "give me wow". Especially when said in the same 15 second time span.
that's 80% of white people over the age of 35
Man, sometimes the stuff they stereotype us as are almost compliments lmao
Being outwardly enthusiastic about anything that isn’t sex or violence is woman shit. Only way to be a man who would show open sincerity like that is to be gaaaaaaaaay /s
I do be knocking my queer socks off ASAP I like my feet to be nekid in my hoe-m
"The reason they just want everyone to stay in their lane is because their lane has always been bigger." So freaking true. And a great point.
"I'm gonna sue your silly little butt" is now one of my 12 action phrases
I love when Canadians try to invoke the 1st amendment. Our first amendment to about recognizing Manitoba as a province lol.
Here in the UK we don’t have a written constitution, so there’s nothing to amend. Honestly find it funny there’s these absolute legal guarantees, set in stone, never can be changed… just need to alter some bits real quick.
@@Meritania I know right, and the people who invoke such things the most are those who are saying things that are outdated bits of generally religious thought. It's like: I'm going to say this outdated thing because of a right that was added to change the rules that are supposed to be all encompassing, to fit with the current times.
Pick a lane lol.
And by god I'll invoke it lol
It's like seeing Confederate flag bumper sticks on cars here (BC in my case) like. Y'all have a provincial license plate. You literally imported racism fandom merch.
@@shegoestothemovies oh jeez. Our the time my hubby got hounded by some random because he was wearing a mask... I HAVE 4 AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES! I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU DECIDED TO BELIEVE!
He blocked him from going back into the dentist's office, where our kids was getting work done. He just popped out to grab a coffee while the kids was in the chair. He got right in his face too.
In real life, the couple was already married out of state (it was in Colorado before you could legally marry there), and wanted to throw a small get-together for their friends and family who couldn't make it.
The baker's response was basically, "you can buy any pastry you want, but I will not make you a wedding cake", so they left upset, and got their cake somewhere else.
Later, one of their mothers learned about the experience, and confronted the baker, leading to another argument, which lead to them reporting the bakery to the state, who sued after investigating the mistreatment.
All-in-all, this baker sucks at customer service, and it was none of his damn business what they did with the cake.
Yeah, this baker was just a dumbass. Unfortunately, anti-discrimination laws are easy to get around as long as you just don't... Like... Come right out and say it?
What he did was also illegal and he was punished by the state. He was punished again when he discriminated against a transgender woman for refusing to sell her a cake for her own gender reveal party.
The bakery initially accepted the order of a plain pink cake with plain blue frosting. Once the owner found out at which kind of party the cake would be served, he refused to complete the order. He was sued and he lost.
@@alexwyatt2911 GOOD. Sounds like a real human shitstain.
As a script reader, I actually have a running list of euphemisms writers have used in screenplays to tell introduce characters as gay without saying they're gay directly. For anyone who's wondering, when a character shows up in a script for the first time, the formatting introduces them in the action with their name in all caps, age, and a fun little descriptor that could be about their ethnicity, gender, sexuality, personality--whatever the writer thinks is important: e.g., "In walks the DANCE INSTRUCTOR (late 50s, Vegas strip Nathan Lane impersonator)."
For the record, the most common euphemisms are as follows, though I'm always adding more to the list:
- flamboyant (naturally)
- metropolitan
- artistic (this one has seen HEAVY use now flamboyant is out of vogue)
- theatrical (see "artistic")
- fashionable/well-dressed (see "artistic")
- dramatic/emotional (when they want to use a slur but have been told not to)
- "one of the girls" (see "dramatic")
- "a Will & Grace type" (I've genuinely seen this more than once, that show has a HOLD on folks of a certain generation)
- [female lead]'s witty best friend (if they're described as "witty" and the leading lady's "best friend" together, we're going Rupert Everett circa My Best Friend's Wedding)
- sassy (yes it's still out there)
- effeminate (yes thIS is still out there, used more often than feels right by God)
- butch, athletic, tomboy (when writers remember lesbians exist but are not themselves queer women)
I feel like I'm missing some--will have to consult my notes (I do have a running list). The winning one that lives long in my mind, however, from a script I read over a decade ago? "The QUINTESSENTIAL HOMOSEXUAL."
At least that last one didn't beat around the bush lol
This is beautiful
Flamboyant dance teacher GAYLORD ELHOMO sashays in dramatically, putting his hand to his forehead.
GAYLORD: God, it's so irritating to constantly get this 'commitment' stuff from my many, many girlfriends! The guys know what I'm talking about.
How do you get a job as a script reader? It sounds amazing
"The Quintessential Homosexual" sounds like a guide to aesthetics. I just want to know when it'll be in print - momma needs a new coffee table book...
These kinds of movies are infuriating because they always paint themselves as persecuted martyrs. Having someone call you out for having unpopular beliefs is not the same as being denied jobs or needed healthcare or being murdered, things your beliefs have caused other people to suffer through.
Exactly it seems they don’t get that
It‘s because it‘s the only way they can defend themselves and wash their ego clean of being a bad person. I feel like a lot of them actually just wanna look god doing something bad. It‘s like a person making up a sob story about why they beat someone up. They know it‘s fundamentally wrong but they hate to admit it.
I think the "you get a whole cake and someone else taking a slice feels like stealing" implies that there are a limited number of rights and gay people getting rights means someone else is losing them. I think it's more apt to say "you have been getting a whole cake for free every day, someone else comes to the bakery and also gets their own cake, and you're mad because it makes your free cake less special"
Btw Willie I love every video you post and my cat loves chasing your hands and yarn around on screen 🥰
BINGO
And they dare to get free chocolate cake. When you only like Victoria sponge.
23:02 so when atheists get beautiful children, is that also from god? Despite not following a single word he said?
Well they are technically losing rights, but those rights were not conducive to a properly functioning society. Discriminating against gay people has been a right in many societies throughout time. Quite frankly, who gives a crap if they lose their right to be a monster? I certainly don't.
THIS, especially true with TERFS they think a transgender woman's feminity takes away from their own, and that just not how it works. There's a endless supply of attract things.
This whole movie is doing the disingenuous debate tactic that conservatives love to pull: they present themselves as calm and measured, and idiots perceive that as somehow making them correct.
This is obviously nonsense because they can only act so calm due to the fact that they have nothing to lose, their rights aren’t on the line. Of course the people whose rights you’re trying to dismantle are going to be louder and more emotional about it, but that is irrelevant. What matters is the content of our arguments, and conservative bigots arguments are devoid of content, hence the pseudointellectual posturing.
"Decorum". Remember what they did to Zooey Zepher.
As a baker, I hate gender reveal parties. They go against what i believe as far as gender roles and the way we force them onto our children before they even understand what gender is. However, if someone wants a gender reveal cake, it would be rude of me to try to lecture them about the topic, no matter how strongly i feel or how politely i say it. Why??? Because it's something theyre happy about and I dont have the right to take that from them.
But also, the real life lawsuit was never about the refusal of service. It was about the subsequent harassment that the couple faced due to the bakers exposing them to a hate group.
(P.s. if it were really about your religion not acknowledging gay weddings as actual weddings, then they also wouldnt make cakes for atheists or anyone of any other religion)
I have two things (and I’m hoping you’ll be amused by the second thing). First, it seems likely that this movie was touching upon the couple’s complaint that was filed with the state, because, you know, what he did was a flagrant violation of state law, federal law, and the civil rights of that couple. and he was rightly punished by the state.
Second, that baker/y got in legal trouble again over a ‘gender reveal’ cake. A transgender woman tried to order a cake for her own ‘gender reveal’ party (imo, that’s a fun take on the more common version of a ‘gender reveal’).
After the shop initially accepted the woman’s order, the baker subsequently refused to fulfill the order after learning the event at which the cake would be served. The order was for a plain pink cake covered in plain blue frosting. No messages. No images. No other design or decor.
He lost. Again. This dude sucks. But I was hoping you’d be amused by the variation on a ‘gender reveal’ party as well as the news that this bigoted loser is still mired in legal battles.
Also, I’m not a lawyer but I’m almost 100% that your 1st Amendment rights would protect your refusal to make ‘gender reveal’ cakes. Your refusal is based on the characteristics of the cake, not the traits of your customers.
Now, I understand if you’d prefer not to refuse, cause a headache, make them feel crummy, create tension, etc. Choosing to make those cakes despite disliking their symbolism/associated social conditioning is a perfectly respectable business choice.
I was just hoping that you didn’t feel like you legally had no other option but to make those cakes.
While I get what you're saying and largely agree, I'm a trans woman and I'm not against the idea of gender reveal parties. The name "sex reveal party" doesn't sound quite as pleasant. You can't really tell a kid's gender until they figure it out themselves, and most kids turn out to be cis, and maybe photos of the event could be a conversation starter for coming out. c:
I'm just saying that I don't think anyone will hold it against you if you bake someone a cake for that, we get it and appreciate your support far more than you could ever know 💜
@@alexwyatt2911me thinks thou doth protest too much lol plus you’re understanding of the first amendment is corrupted.
@@good4gaby Bud, I didn’t “protest” a single thing. Why are you being such a weirdo? More than one of your replies to me have been total nonsense.
25:14 “he ran out of synonyms for gay” I fucking choked skdhshd
It says in Ezekiel 16:49 that Sodom's sin was that they didn't help the poor and needy so the term "sodomite" applies to the baker more than the gay couple.
12:47 "I don't do custom cakes for same-sex couples" so you're fine if it's a generic cake that you just happened to have already on the shelf and your real objection is the intentional creation? to what extent could the purpose of the cake possibly affect the process of your making it? are you forced to imagine the couple's wedding night as you pipe the frosting? truly such a strange place to draw the line
True. He congratulates them "sincerely" and is happy to condone the marriage with a random cake. How is the custom cake different from that? They want to have the cake and eat it too 😂
I have decided to go with that interpretation. That he's piping the frosting and mumbling creepily to himself as he imagines the couple's wedding night that he can only imagine is the first time the couple have undressed in front of each other to avoid sinning.
Imagine living in a capitalistic society that you claim is the greatest and that you support wholeheartedly, but throwing away guaranteed profits because you're upset that other people love each other, based on a mistranslation of a book written by someone who didn't even have a concept of what homosexuality even is, because it was literally written two thousand years ago in a society that was so alien to ours that you yourself likely would have been persecuted and killed for how different you think from the people of that time.
true!
SAY IT LOUDERRR!❤
The capitalism remains. The actual baker was more than happy to sell the couple a wedding cake, just one of the premade ones. What he refused was to make a custom cake for them.
@@benjaminchetty7574 maybe don’t get into a business making custom cakes when you won’t serve a significant amount of your clientele
Bravo!!
I was just thinking what a cool name Echo is.
The gay guys would be saying "We want a cake for our wedding." This is just weird. And the scary music! Wtf this whole scene is so weird. "I don't hate you, but I hate who you are." That's what they say. They don't hear that it's so evil. And I used to say that stuff when I was a vangie in denial of my own queerness.
fr Echo is a sick name
Would you please be willing to define "vangie" as you are using it here? I don't think I have run across it before, and I would not want to run across and apply a definition you did not agree with when trying to understand what you are saying.
@@brandonwood2612 i think it's short for evangelical and honestly as an ex evangelical christian i'm so excited to add this to my vocab
I grew up with the "love the sinner, hate the sin" mentality and I think of that every time I see an argument like what's in this movie. How they keep trying to say, "Oh, I don't hate you, I just hate how you're gay.". Like, I used to think that made sense and I honestly don't know how I was ever so stupid. 😅
@@brandonwood2612 Abbreviation of evangelical lol
He got me. I had to check the post date when he said “it’s 2016”
Me too omg 😂
Literally how I wound up at your comment. Right now I honestly couldn't be sure...
Same! I was thinking this might be a repost. 🤣 💗
Just heard that too and had to rush down to the comments for solice that I wasnt alone in the shock XD
Your analogy about the only cake-haver being upset because a new person came and wanted a single slice reminds me of that truism:
"When you are used to privilege, equality feels like oppression."
34:45 Ah, so they do understand that what they do to patients and staff at Planned Parenthood is harrassment and intimidation.
I think they understand more than they let on. Not by much, though.
Of course they know. That’s their intention.
my go-to response to religious homophobia is "I don't hate Christians, I have no problems with them, I just don't think they should have the right to vote. Love the believer, hate the belief." The amount of tantrums I get is GLORIOUS.
What is this bakery scene with the suspense music? The gay couple acts like they're getting a cake in secret before the "reveal", and the baker is trying to sell his bigotry to them way too softly to be taken seriously. This encounter did not happen, it wouldn't happen.
'I have the right to refuse you business'
'They have the right to protest in front of your business'
'Hey! Not fair!'
But he does _not_ have the right to refuse their business because his refusal is based on a legally protected trait.
As a person in the throws of planning a wedding, literally the first thing I say in any communication to a vendor is "my finace and I recently got engaged." I make it abundantly clear I'm hiring them for a wedding. And I imagine if you're hiring someone for any occasion, you start by explaining what it's for. "I need a cake for my son's birthday" is perfectly normal. Not coming in like you just took a bump and talking about "wow" and "not too tall"
As a person who recently got into the bakery business, he would be getting immediately talked about in the back until every employee knew the tale of this guy who was definitely on something and might've wanted a wedding cake.
With them coming in telling people their job so they think they're legit and not high off that fresh bump.
This is a horror movie, for me. The actor who plays the homophobic protagonist was one of the two leads of the show 'Warehouse 13'. And I love that show. So for me, this is horrible. You're still great though.
My thought exactly. I am so sad by agent Pete being in a Homophobic movie. So disappointed. And yes Willie is amazing.
@@andrewtate914 so you're presumably against a baker refusing service based on his morals, but an actor not doing the same is also bad?
@@reizayin
A point worthy of being discussed. David C. Smalley discusses this and says that he would turn down voice work turning a Christian book into an audio book because he disagrees with what is being said, and does not think it would be appropriate for him to be recorded saying the words he does not believe in that case. But, he is an actor, and has played a villain on a children's television show. I am unfamiliar with the show, but I'm sure he has said stuff as the villain that he does not personally believe. Perhaps that is clearly a character, whereas "voice of the author" is not traditionally seen as a distinct character and hence does not provide the desired plausible deniability.
Also, may I suggest searching this page for "Oh Eddie." for my full response to my revelation of this fact.
It is weird especially cause you can find very gay positive comments from him on his twitter in the past, so it's disappointing to see him in this film.
I'm sorry but if I bake cakes for a living, I should resign myself to having to someday bake a cake for someone I don't want to bake for. That's the nature of doing a given service for a living.
Also, most businesses have a policy like "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason."
Those reasons just can't legally be because of a protected trait, like race or sexual orientation (or until recently, couldn't be because of a protected trait like those - thanks, SCOTUS /s).
So just don't let the customer know what the real reason is. Just say you're booked up/too busy, etc.
Anti-discrimination laws are unfortunately really easy to get around, as long as you're not a cartoonish bigot or a complete dumbass.
I say this as someone who was pushed out of a job for being autistic, but not in a way I can demonstrably prove.
Just don't literally say, "it's because we found out that you're gay/because we learned you're seeking reasonable accommodations for a disability/[etc.]," and you'll be fine.
That's the most annoying part. Discrimination laws are just there for people to say "we don't openly hate you" and it's still too much for some people to handle.
I'm a hairdresser. I do hair for people I can't stand on a personal level, but I'm offering a service, they're paying me for said service, and my personal feelings have nothing to do with that professional interaction. That's all it should be
More than any other of these bigoted evangelical movies this gives me the vibes of a bully making a whole movie just so he can go: "Look how reasonable I am and how unreasonable they are! I'm the real victim here! Me me me!" Not because it's more bigoted or mean-spirited than any other of these movies, but because the tone is just so whiny!
Knitcholas has been quiet. Hope he’s okay! Great video, as always.
I was thinking about him too
I really like the point about having to do gay wedding cakes if you sign up to be a wedding cake baker. I hadn't thought of it that way before, mostly just focused on the homophobia. but it's so true. it's like how you shouldn't have children if you aren't prepared to have a gay child. you shouldn't make cakes if you're not gonna make a gay cake.
And it's not even "gay cakes." In real life nobody asked for any special gayness in their wedding cake. It's the exact same cake that would be made for a straight couple.
Plus why would a baker care so much about who they sell to? Their job isn't to promote their beliefs, their job is to make a cake. That's it. What the cake is for and what the customer does with it has no effect on the baker, just make the cake and make the sale and move on. I could understand being reluctant if it was a n@zi cake or a kkk cake, but if it's just a gay wedding cake, then why care?
@wolvie1618 imagine a kind of wedding cake that you might not support, like a child bride marrying an old man or something. Saying you bake wedding cakes doesn't mean that you're willing to bake ANY wedding cake
(To be clear, I'm not saying that gay marriage is equivalent to that because gay marriage is between consenting adults who hopefully love each other. I'm just trying to point out that saying that you generally provide a service doesn't mean that you think it's always moral to provide that service)
Have any of them refused to bake a cake for a divorcee? Or based on a Christian marrying into a non Christian religion? Or Protestant marrying a Catholic? Or an atheist marriage? Or if the bride isn’t a virgin? There are tons of religious restrictions on marriage.
It’s nothing to do with faith. It’s ick against gay people.
@@ruthspanos2532 So many people miss this whole point. It’s never about religion. Religion isn’t the law and we shouldn’t be wasting our time debating what the bible says. If that’s how you interpret the bible, whatever, sorry your god is a picky little baby who throws a hissy fit when he sees gay people. But this is America, and it’s my right to worship a god that loves me no matter how queer I am. You can follow your religious tenets, but you can’t force other people to live the same way you do. So who cares what the bible says, that all belongs in church and in the bedroom when I’m down on my knees, y’know, praying and all.
One thing no one seems to bring up is you totally could discriminate against people if you're not blatantly obvious about it. Like in the movie he could have said "Oh we're backed up" or "oh sorry we've got too much to do that week", really anything besides "hi yes I John Someguy, of sound body and mind, would hereby like to discriminate against you based on immutable characteristics. Would you like me to dial your lawyer for you?"
how dare you "it's 2016" me. I hope you're proud of yourself. you done got me
Those gay people at the beginning are so cringe smh gotta go break up with my partner bc this made me homophobic and my partner is gay :/
I said this on Justice's video, but was anyone else surprised that when they show the school play, the girl who replaced the daughter was (at a glance) just another white girl? Like, usually when conservatives whine about "diversity" and "equity" it's code for "a person of color got a thing I don't believe they deserve!" Maybe the other girl was supposed to be gay? Diversity *does* include LGBT folks. But like, not sure how they planned to make that clear.
I feel like the plot called for the replacement to be a Black girl, but they either couldn't find one willing to play that role, or they've never interacted with a Black person in their life and therefore don't know any.
I come for the excellent reviews of bad movies, but I stay for the kittycat content🙏💕🐱
Thank you for all your hard work. Always excited when I see a new Willie Muse vid pop up in my subs
Thank YOU I'm excited to super thanks you because your name is really fun to say!
Funny thing about protesters. Most organizers go out of their way to offer deescalation training and most protesters I've worked beside are way better at stopping violence from occurring than any cop I've ever seen respond to said protests. Many are press trained and what's referred to as police training. Which is training on how to best interact with the cops to avoid them hurting you or getting charged with resisting arrest or anything of the sort.
The only way I can take this movie seriously is as a comedy from the clips you've shown. I burst out laughing at the drama in the protest scene, the daughter fell on the ground like she got shot 😂
I was honestly expecting her to grab her leg and wail "my leg!! It's broken!!", and the father to chime in "the gay agenda has ruined my daughter's promising dance career - oh, help me, Jesus, but not in a gayyy way."
Knitcholas looks like he's going to sneak behind the chair 😂
11:22 the insanity of how hard these guys are trying to avoid saying "we're getting married" is staggering 😂😢😅😂
To be fair, we all saw her dance...she's not good enough to be a lead.
Harsh! But fair
i was surprised he didn’t comment on it 💀
I can't help but wonder if these kinds of bakers refuse to make cakes for straight couples who are different religions or explicitly nonreligious or atheist? Because that would be "enabling" a sin that god considers to be far worse than homosexuality in the bible, like literally the *worst possible sin*. So if they've done that they've condemned themselves anyways, so may as well get the benefit of treating LGBT+ people with kindness and empathy.
Also, don't know if I'll ever be able to see Warehouse 13 the same after this. Homophobic Pete? Say it ain't so! D:
Yeah, do they check if either person is divorced before baking their wedding cake?
Because in Catholicism and evangelical protestant Christianity,* isn't that supposed to make them adulterers, because divorce is illegitimate (at least by Republic of Gilead rules, I guess)?
(*In Judaism and Islam, as well as in many other Christian churches, divorce is completely allowed. It's literally in the Torah.)
The way these gay guys revealed they wanted a wedding cake truly sounded like they were expecting to be met with homophobia and doing everything they could to shield themselves from the judgement that immediately followed. Yet they aren't the ones the movie wants us to empathise with, huh. Like if you set up a villain, you tend to make them overly confident. These guys are anything but.
There’s also the issue that cake is technically food, and it could set an incredibly dangerous legal precedent to allow businesses to refuse to sell food to any group on the basis of religion. Cake isn’t a necessity, but plenty of other foods are.
The issue is that what the baker (both the movie and real life version) did was illegal. His refusal wasn’t based on any characteristic of the cake; his refusal was based solely on the protected trait of his customers-which is textbook discrimination and completely illegal.
The real life baker was rightly punished by the state for violating the state’s anti-discrimination statute as well as violating the civil rights of that same-sex couple. And no, the US Supreme Court did not give him a religious exemption to discriminate against people.
Today, the real life baker/y does not sell wedding cakes to anyone because he refuses to sell wedding cakes to same-sex couples. His chosen remedy is perfectly legal.
If businesses want the privilege of selling to the public, then they must accommodate all members of the public. Discriminatory business practices are subject to legal remedies including fines, criminal charges, remedial education courses, and if necessary-revocation of the company’s business license.
I'm a Presbyterian (a type of more liberal Christian) and I do believe that we don't have to see eye to eye on everything theologically to get along. The boundaries I do draw are ones that impede on people's rights. My church ordains women and marries gay people, and I'd try to change it or leave if they started treating certain groups of people as lesser, because that is an idea that goes against my faith. I don't think that we all need to believe in the same God (or any god) to be good people. I think that everybody has at least some goodness inside of them, and I want to see that light shine as much as possible. Doing that takes compassion even when it's hard. It's also not every gay person's responsibility to change the hearts of the people who decide to mistreat them because of who they love. Let other people take on that burden. Shout out to housing first organizations and Life After Hate for doing the hard work of helping people at some of the lowest points of their lives see the light and start to heal
Thank you for using your faith for good... I was raised Presbyterian and my childhood church was one of the ones that split from PCUSA over the decisions surrounding LGBT inclusion. I was already drifting away from religion but the church I grew up in announcing that they disliked gay and trans people enough to split from the parent organization was a big push away from the whole endeavor.
@katycat5e that sucks. I had my own falling out with my specific local church after what a boyfriend (and fellow member) did to me. I'd like to find a new church one day, but I'm still healing from that even though it was so long ago. But something that I do remember and hold with me is a lesson that my Pastor shared with me early on: wherever 2 or more of you are gathered, I am too with you. You don't need organized religion to practice; you just need to find your people. I hope you have them now
based
@@Romanticoutlaw seriously, donate to those places if you have anything you can spare. Life After Hate gets people resources to leave hate groups and make community reparations. And housing first charities do exactly what it sounds like: they get people shelter *first* so that people can have a safe place to rest their head so that they have the security to heal addiction, mental health issues, get job training, and rejoin communities. You can search "housing first" + plus where you live to find a local organization that provides those resources in your area
my favorite aspect of willie reviewing these hyper-christian movies is when he breaks it down from the perspective of the christians - it helps re-humanize them to me, after ive been so hurt by their bigotry that by default, on my own i just see "us vs them" instead of "two equally human groups"
I’m finally returning to religion after being anti-christianity for years. I always expected I’d be entirely outcast, but the amount of support and kindness and just people being happy to see me again in a baptist church, it feels good. There’s a lot of sႹitty religious folks out there, but there’s a lot of good ones too, and there are also plenty of sႹitty atheists in the world. People don’t need the bible to tell them to hate gay people. Plus having someone in your community exist and be queer can help folks understand that gay/trans people are normal and not scary :)
@@annoyingkid48 While I agree that not all christians are bad, don't forget that while good people will do good and evil people do evil, it takes religion to make a good person commit evil acts. Unfortunately many religious people use their religion as a defense against criticism, and the good Christians seem to be completely drowned out by the fascists.
@@nobody.of.importance Oh totally, I’m not saying my experience is normal or to be expected at all. I’m just glad I *did* have a good experience, but I know most people don’t. Folks are bound to twist their beliefs to suit their worldview, and that lends handily to cutting down groups they don’t like.
The real kind of taking God’s name in vain is twisting religion into a beacon of hate, and that’s something a lot of christians like to forget.
edit: Though I completely disagree with the statement that religion alone is what makes good people do bad things. I think while it’s a common factor, the bigger thing is ignorance and denial. People choose to believe what they want, whether that’s religion, science, philosophy, etc. I don’t really believe in a hard line between good and evil, and it’s easy to rationalize doing bad things for your own benefit even if you ain’t doing it in the name of god.
@@annoyingkid48 Of course, religion's not the only thing that does that, but it is often (as you pointed out) used as an excuse to harm innocents. As long as you're not doing that, which it looks like you're not, you're totally fine in my book, and honestly? I've been hoping more christians would stop the out of control spread of hatred, that the good christians would speak out against these monsters, and that's exactly what you're doing. I dunno how much you care of the opinion of an Ars Goetian, but in my eyes, you're a true Christian who actually values the teachings of Jesus, and Jesus was objectively a pretty cool guy (tm).
Let’s say that this was exactly what happened irl. That a gay couple tried to force a homophobic Christian into making a cake. What we’d have then is countless years of christians trying to force gay people out of their sexuality (which is impossible and often leads to harmful results) compared to one instance of a gay couple trying to force a homophobe to make them a cake (which I don’t see how it would harm anyone). Like sure, no one should have to do something they don’t want to do, but we’re comparing someone asking you to do your job to being asked to repress your sexuality. They simply aren’t anywhere near on the same level of harm.
No one can be forced to make a baked good. And no one (even the government) wants to do such a thing. When businesses violate the law, there are legal remedies.
If a business is not compliant with anti-discrimination statutes, then the company/owner may be subject to fines, criminal charges, remedial education classes, and if necessary-revocation of the company’s business license.
This idea that people wanting to “force” bakers to make a cake is intentionally absurd. That rhetoric intentionally creates an illusion that the only possible remedy to the problem (i.e. forced baking) is absurd, impractical, and intolerable. They want to give people the impression that there’s no workable solution to the problem. But that’s just an outright lie.
Neither the solution nor the base of the problem (non-compliance) is complex or strange or novel or absurd or impossible. This is very simple; businesses that violate the law are subject to legal remedies. Done and done.
It’s easy to fall into the trap laid by bigots. That’s why they laid the trap in the first place.
@@alexwyatt2911 It's literally someone complaining that they're being asked to do their job. As Willie said, if you don't want to make a cake for a gay couple, then you probably shouldn't be in the cake-making business. The only argument I've heard from christians is that since they view homosexuality as a crime similar to murder, they thus view supporting homosexuality as supporting murder (though they have said that they're ok with accepting it, which is quite odd, as I've never heard anyone suggest that we ought to accept murderers). Based on this view, I suppose they view making a cake for a gay couple's wedding as comparable to selling a gun to a known murderer. The obvious difference being that being accepting and/or supportive of murderers would lead to the destruction of society as we know it, while being accepting and/or supporting of gay people does no harm to anyone except good ol' sky daddy who apparently hates when gay people do gay things yet can never be bothered to come down and do something about it (gee I wonder why). I'm just so tired of the dishonest bs that christians keep spewing. It's so pathetic that since they can't make a good argument against gay people irl, they've resorted to making movies where they can paint gay people to be the imaginary villains they view them as. It's truly despicable behavior.
nah they deserved that lawsuit and getting exposed for being homophobic, the problem with these ppl is that they KNOW that most of us won't do anything but I would've gone crazy too, this is unacceptable and when you don't speak up about something it affects others as you said later on
Yep, true.
100% true
If I remember the case right, the legal reason they can’t use the 1st amendment to discriminate is because the bakery isn’t a person, it’s a business. I business can’t practice a religion. Now if this guy didn’t have an llc, and he just baked cakes for fun, he would be totally within his rights to refuse service.
That’s the legal thrust of it. In the US, businesses open to the public must comply with the Public Accommodations requirements contained within the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Essentially, a business cannot refuse goods and/or services to a customer if that refusal is based on the protected trait(s) of that customer.
A business can refuse customers goods/services for non-discriminatory reasons. For example, a t-shirt print shop is legally permitted to refuse to make a t-shirt with a Confederate flag because the owner is offended by that imagery. The owner wouldn’t make that t-shirt for _any_ customer; their refusal is based solely on the characteristics/content of the requested t-shirt.
The 1st Amendment prohibits the government from compelling the t-shirt shop owner to create speech which they find offensive. Now, 1st Amendment does _not_ protect the discriminatory action taken by the baker.
The baker (both the movie and the real life version) refused goods and services based on the customers’ protected trait; that’s illegal discrimination. He didn’t find anything about the cake itself to be objectionable or offensive or at odds with his religious beliefs. He would have willingly created that identical cake and happily sold it to a different-sex couple.
That refusal is a flagrant violation of state law, federal law, and the civil rights of that same-sex couple (both the movie and real life version). The baker/y was rightly punished by the state for his infraction.
funny that it starts like that cause the church literally censored and obligated artists to make what they wanted against their beliefs to fit their own narrative since forever lol
i mean michealangelo had to paint “women” for them lol
Wait! Is that the male lead from Warehouse 13? That show had gay and bisexual characters. Holy hell.
I WAS JUST THINKING THAT!! I'M SO SHOCKED TO SEE HIM HERE NOW!!! also i miss warehouse 13 so much. they did that show so wrong in the end...
Yeah, and it’s so jarring to see them in this context.
@@ashvander7864frrrr it was such a great show, but it really devolved when they kept escalating the world ending threats instead of the episodic story that suited it much better.
i was looking for someone else who noticed this! i had to look it up cause i didn't want it to be true, but yep, that's eddie mcclintock, who played pete on warehouse 13. that was one of my favorite shows as a teenager and damn it's depressing to see that this is what he's doing now :(
DUDE I was so confused as to why I recognized his face omg
Around 19:50 you should really be careful telling anyone you think they should just move out of their homophobic town. A lot of people do cause it's safer and easier living somewhere more inclusive, a whole lot more can't because just picking up and leaving is hard and expensive, but the core of this kind of discussion should always be that no one should HAVE TO leave their home. It's their hometown as much as it is any homophobes.
THIS. I adore Willie’s videos but he’s just a bit off the mark for a couple of his points in this particular video.
while I agree with the sentiment, this is a comedy channel, and not to be taken as literal opinions.
I understand and wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment that no-one should HAVE to, but saying "don't recommend moving" feels too much like "don't tell people to leave their abusive relationships" for me to think it's bad advice.
The main issue is that if your business serves the public, then you must serve all of the public & not pick & choose who you serve. It's one thing to deny service to people for something like no shoes or shirt, but it's another to apply that to people based on their sexuality as it opens the door for businesses to deny services to certain groups & it wouldn't just be shops. It could be doctors, lawyers, real estate, etc that could deny services to someone all because their existence goes against that person's religious beliefs. Like imagine needing to see a doctor for a medical issue but then being told you can't because it goes against their religion or wanting buy a home but getting turned down because of your race, sex, gender identity, sexuality, ethnicity, etc
Exactly. Imagine if we had a US Supreme Court that permitted companies a religious exemption that sidestepped the federal law requiring insurance plans to include coverage for contraceptives. Just _imagine_ that. 🫠
And I don’t even want to discuss the SCOTUS ruling for 303 Creative v. Elenis. Disgusting. The Republican appointed justices are a plague on this world.
The PROBLEMATIC in the thumbnail is back!
Did it ever leave?
Holy crap Echo thank you - I was literally just having a difficult time last night with the fact that my stamina has basically been halved since my chronic illness started and I felt lazy compared to other people. That was really sweet, you don’t know how much that small shoutout meant to me, it felt perfect 😭😭
Now it’s time to watch some homophobic garbage (lol)
The scene at 10:30 followed by your simple, deadpan delivery might be the funniest thing I've heard all week.
The only good thing about this movie is now I want cake.
The way you gaslit me into checking the upload date even though i SWORE this was a new vid 😂😂
As a cake decorator at an Albertson's (since they are the same person as Safeway) I do take some offense at the comparison. My cakes can be much cooler than that.
I am also a queer person who has done cakes for same sex couple weddings, so I'm way cooler anyway. 🤷♀️
Ya know what? Fair!
I too would be scared of an Ed Hardy scarecrow
Honestly I think you nailed it. When I saw the story that this is inspired by I was like ok, you have a right to refuse service. But if you can't make custom wedding cakes for one group of people just stop making custom wedding cakes at all. You're still a baker without custom wedding cakes.
He did actually. His bakery no longer sells wedding cakes because he refuses to abide by state and federal laws that prohibit him from refusing goods and/or services based on customers’ protected traits.
no, you don't have a right to discriminate against people
17:25 my internet kept buffering, making the new sentence "Unlike me, they weren't exhausted by the idea of standing up..." And honestly, same.
Frank and William missed a golden opportunity. I've waited my entire life to attend a Frankenwilly Hallowedding.
oh my god that's the best thing i've ever read
i have nothing to add because you just hit the nail on the head on pretty much every point of this conversation ahejsak thanks for another great one, willie!
Wasn't the original case of homophobic bakers getting sued because the couple put down a hefty deposit and the bakery decided to keep the money while also not making the cake?
Also, Pete from Warehouse 13! No wonder his character felt so gross and him ending up with bi-coded Mika felt so wrong.
No, the original case was that the baker violated state and federal law by refusing a good and service based on the customers’ protected trait. The baker/y was sued, then he lost and was punished by the state.
Now, his bakery does not sell wedding cakes because he will not comply with the state and federal laws that prohibit businesses from engaging in discriminatory practices.
11:16 Two homophobes pretending to be gay... its funny how uncomfortable they looked doing that
Way to go Echo on finishing college 🎉🎉
Your cat is adorable
Omg i completely lost track of your channel after a couple of episodes of top model (I think it was top model) Im so happy to have found you again ❤
If you own a business that sells good to the public, then you shouldn't be able to discriminate. Full stop.
Then again I'd lowkey wanna know if the baker I wanted to hire for my gay wedding was a homophobe so that I don't give them money...
The bakery this is based on is located across the street from my favorite restaurant. The urge to throw 💩 at their door has crossed my mind before, but I've thought better of it 😅
Good for you.
Someone you are related to has probably taken a 23 and Me test. ;)
I qm curious, how are events and especially the characters similar or different? Are the owners really those soft spoken "nice" people? Did protesters push their daughter?
@@happytofu5 no idea. I've never attempted to interact with them
The beginning is so anti god tbh. The way that baker was like 'guys I am so sorry, I would love to bake your cake, but, you know how it is, god doesn't want me to' As if his allegedly loving and peaceful god came down and told him personally 'look, you doing a woman's work and bake cakes is alright BUT...no cakes for the gays. Are we clear?' Sounds like alright asshole for a god if you ask me.
I think what offends me most about this movie is that no one bothered to write a script for it. They assumed the story was so compelling it would just write itself, and the actors awkwardly stumbled through the entire thing. If you're gonna be homophobic, at least make it ✨sparkle✨
They can't, no gay people would work on it
Not the Freedom of Assembly cake lol 🎉
My days go from "eh whatever" to "It's a Willie Day" when I see a new video pop up. Of course, I'm on the patreon, so I do get the preview emails, so it really shouldn't be as much of a surprise as it apparently is.
It's smart not to tell bakers cakes are for weddings, but huge life milestones. They upcharge on weddings
Baker: I have refused to give you my service based on my belief. I am a hero cause of this!
Teacher: I have refused to give you a starring role based on my belief. I am an antagonist cause of this!
These Christian movies and their hypocrisies...
The thought of promising an almighty being that you will not make baked goods for those horrible Other People That Are Not Us is so utterly bizarre, I feel like only a near lifetime of being baked by weird Christian takes would make it seem reasonable. It's dessert for goodness sakes - they aren't asking you to blaspheme, just put the ingredients together weirdos.
It's also really frustrating how blatantly Christian so many American businesses are. My last workplace wouldn't give us most bank holidays but would give us Good Friday off. I interviewed at a place that stated that they straight up have a morning prayer everyday on the factory floor. It's so freaking uncomfortable as someone who was technically former Catholic, but also is currently agnostic. And yet these places never get criticized for being discriminatory, when they probably should. They weren't even making Christian stuff! It was like pet supplies and boxes! God isn't involved!
There's a saying that i think that perfectly fits this movie and the conservatives in general
"When you've always lived in privilege, equality feels like oppression"
"I don't make custom cakes for same-sex COUPLES."
Don’t quit the posing section. I love that behind the scenes peek!
that cat is incredible- polydactyl, folded ears AND nub tail????!! He's the whole package!
My thoughts exactly lol
Ah finally, another video where you pose for the thumbnail. There was some other stuff in the video but I skipped all that to get to the important part.
Comment for engagement, great video as always :3
Do unto others as you would have done unto you. Unless you're this baker. Then you dont have to listen to God.
Correct response: just start praying in the bakery. Not in a mocking way, but in a way that makes it clear to observers that you're praying.
After a few minutes of apparent silent prayer, stop praying and go, "It's okay - I just checked with God, and He said He doesn't mind. He wants you to bake the cake."
Only just started the video but your cat is GORGEOUS! The curly ears, the extra thumbs! What a lovely baby!
Thanks!
Congratulations, Echo!
I don't know what part I find more funny. The fact that it took me 6 minutes to realize that that was Eddie McClintock in the lead because I'm used to seeing him with no facial hair or the fact that he's actually an ally for LGBTQA+. Super sweet amazing dude. One of my favorite con meets.
0:43 idk who you are, but what a charming intro. Gets me interested 😊
I love your cat, I love his tail, and I love that you play him like a guitar. 💖
I am probably giving away my age, but all I can think about is the Patrick Stewart cake maker skit on SNL. And his wink at the end.
"So, all your cakes are women going to the bathroom....?"
"Yeah. 😁🙂😀🤣 What's your point?"
@@itsbuggers Sexy Cakes
0:33 OMG the waggling tail nubbin! All the toes! The curly ears! What an incredible cat, I love him 🥹💕
So. My bi crippled ass is trapped in this tiny town. If I could move. I would have done so long before I started looking gay. Now that I wear pink out and about, these boomers ignore me so hard. There’s no way in hell anyone would marry me, but I definitely don’t really have that much choice in business. I can’t even avoid the racism if I want the fraction of the tax taken off my purchases after I finally got my native id after over 30 years of genocide keeping me in the dark about my heritage. The last time I got it out I got a lecture about American football team names (and) aunt jemima. “Just go somewhere else” simply isn’t an option.
On a side note, it’s funny when boomer couples interact with me now, usually the wife is ok and likes my dog, the husband angrily keeps walking and pointedly ignores me. Then the wife I guess learns her lesson and they both start ignoring me. (It was a day and night change when I wore black headphones, most people said hi, then the next day they stopped). Edited autocorrect
1:52 Congrats, Echo! I have no idea who you are but I just started going to college full time (last year I went part time) and it’s been really taxing - especially when it comes to my relationships with my family. Persevering and graduating while dealing with health (mental & physical) struggles is a huge deal and I hope that one day I do the same :)
Congrats again, if you see this
I dont wanna say anything or assume based on the way you talk and act, but I recognize a lot of mannerisms, physically and vocally, that I share with you, and if what I'm thinking is indeed the case.. I'm really happy to see someone who acts and talks similar to me make entire youtube videos, being funny, getting views, and getting famous, etc. You're a big inspiration to me already and I just found your channel! Im subscribing and can't wait to see more videos from you! :D
this might be your best movie commentary video so far, I laughed I cry-laughed I nodded my head in agreement to the screen as if you were in the room with me. Fun times!
It's always nice knitting along to your videos 🧶
this feels like the movie version of that Office bit where Michael Scott calls something a hate crime and Stanley says "That's not what a hate crime is" "WELL I HATED IT!".