Colonel : "Call him Raiden" Rose : "Jack you want to save ?" Rose : "Jack ! You remember the day we met ?" Rose : "Jack, be careful..." Rose : "Jack, is that you ?" Rose : "Jack, what are you doing ?" Rose : "Oh Jack..."
@@supersmashbro596 tbh that`s one of those things that felt weird. Not really out of place, Rose knows what the job consists of, but it does feel weird that she must know that her boyfriend legit murders people and then drags their corpses to lockers as just part of the work that must be done
The relationship between Rose and Jack was one of my favourite features of the game, and, in my opinion, one of the most interesting relationships in gaming history.
except it was never the real rose, but a manipulative ai. casting doubt on the entire conversation, and making "her" a manipulative bitch. bet the real rose isnt so bad.
@@supersmashbro596 it was actually rose to a certain extend, the real rose was taken out of the mission when she revealed she was pregnant. so in this game rose is still a manipulative bitch
After playing this game for 7 hours straight till 4 in the morning, going through all of the colonel's bullshit codec conversation and barely having enough energy to keep my eyes open the last thing I want to see is Rose with pure white eyes as I'm trying to save before I fight Solidus. Really messed me up that night.
I don't blame you, my brother and I had nightmares playing the last parts of the game when Campbell and rose transition from normal to horrifying. Campbell's skull face and Rose's dead eyes. And that speech.....
I know right? What other game has you embroiled in relationship drama with your girlfriend in the middle of a military mission? Kojima is a madman and I love him for it. Also, it's not like its being forced on us --- you can skip the codecs whenever you want.
as much as i hate this manipulative bitch, i bet the real rose isn't this toxic her being an ai sent to manipulate you along with the "colonel" kind of makes this whole exchange actually tolerable, and doesnt affect my judgement of the real rose.
24:05 - What great foreshadowing to the reveal that Raiden was brought up as a child soldier, a machine, a soulless killer, only coming alive and showing emotion in the battlefied- where his life is on the line.
@@duroorud527 only the last 2 codec calls are fake, otherwise she's the real Rose. she gets removed from the mission when she reveals her association w/ the Patriots right before Raiden reunites with Snake at Arsenal. you can look up the call in which her voice starts to get messed up and fade away as she reveals she's pregnant. that's the moment when she gets taken away by the patriots' grunts
@@duroorud527 Campbell married Rose to prevent the Patriots from using her and her son (Raiden's kid) as a leverage for the Patriots. And it worked well, pretty much fooling anyone
17:49 I've played a lot of video games in my life. I've played the Metal Gear series since i was probably 4. I thought i'd seen everything gaming had to offer, the pinnacle of a narrative in video game form, which was MGS, and i thought i'd seen everything MGS had to offer, i thought i'd seen every side of the story. I'd played them all, beat them on the hardest difficulties, watched my dad beat them all when i was younger. But when i was 14, replaying them for the first time when i was old or mature enough to fully understand the concepts the game laid out for you, by complete accident i stumbled across this codec message. In all the years of my life, i think that codec conversation was the first and only time i found my jaw completely dropped. I'd gasped or called out in excitement when playing other games with friends before, but those times it was just a social response, like saying "woahh did you see that?" But i was alone in my room in the basement, sitting on an old leather chair, looking at my TV set up in front of the mirror attached to the knicked up old dresser i had all my gaming stuff set up on. And by the end as the codec logged off i felt numb and tingly and i, for no particular reason, glanced off to the right where my mirror was, and my jaw was dropped. I really think this was the most impressive conversation i've ever heard. In any game, movie, book, fictional or no, after all the obviously very good character development leading up to it that you'd come to expect from a MGS game, this felt more real than any other conversation i've ever heard.
A year late but I'd just like to comment on this cause I do share a Similar experience. But more so in the actual context of the call. I had a heart to heart with one of my first partner's that was almost beat to beat similar to this codec call. I never raised my hand at her like raiden did but I was closed off about how I felt or what my personal feelings were to her. It sound's bad looking back on it but as I got older I also realized how unfair it was to her. I hadn't experienced much in the terms of sharing my own personal burdens or troubles with someone else and just internalized it. I had no problems hearing her out for hers but as time passed she kept trying to get in and I unknowingly kept her locked out. To me I just was not able to trust and let her in despite wanting to. This stemmed from abandonment issue's early on in my life but that's a whole another can of worm's. Anyway, when I heard this codec when I got older. It just hit me so hard cause I understood both sides super well and it was like reliving the past and being able to properly hear her side of the story. It was just so surreal. Metal gear was truly ahead of it's time in so many ways.
@@Nekomon. One of the reasons i still love the conversation is it goes against all the normal "laws" of writing dialogue you'd see in a hollywood movie. It kind of comes out of nowhere, without obvious cues that a big scene is coming up, Rose just kind of lets out emotions all of a sudden; and Raiden doesn't try to console her. He chastises her kind of unfairly and there's no happiness or smiles to be had in the talk, it's really sad and down and it doesn't end better. It doesn't make me connect with the characters and doesn't explain any character traits, it's rather confusing actually and shows more of Raiden's negative traits, like the fact he hit Rose. Any magazine or website would have said this scene was "boring" or "sad" if it were in the newest marvel movie. It deepens the plot, makes me feel for the characters, and makes me more interested, but for reasons a lot different than other stories. I also like the writing and voice acting, it's not "realistic", not at all really, but combined with the music it feels more like a play and it's just a lot more memorable to me.
Yep. Mg franchise will do that to ya. I'm still amazed how they created such amazing dialouge, imo some of it is better than some highly appraised Hollywood movies out there.
Y'know, when I was 11, I always thought Rose was unbearably annoying and hated whenever it was time for me to save, but now a whole decade later I can acknowledge her as an admirable character. She's dependable, somewhat petty and naggy, but she's loving, as a girlfriend usually is. Their interactions felt too real and I can appreciate Kojima for how well they were handled as a couple.
This game is somehow underrated (whilst being a metal gear game, and thus, a blockbuster). And I think a lot of that has to do with the Jack/Raiden and Rose story, and those 2 characters in general, and misreading Kojima's intentions with it. I believe he kinda felt he had already DONE the "badass, emotionally flat" lone hero story with the Shadow Moses plot, and so doing it again would be a redux. Instead he decided to make a comment on the players themselves and the idea of a generation of war voyeurs...Raiden is supposed to be conflicted, emotionally stunted but yearning for the completeness, whereas Snake is perhaps more emotionally developed and complete but cold and stoic. Both characters are super interesting in their own way, but the point is that there was ROOM for both in the MGS series. Sorry ramble
I agree, but with that said MGS2 was one of the titles that became better well after its initial release. I'm more bothered by a lot of the fans raves with the series story over all. In fact being an avid fan of the games myself, I can honestly say the general story is weak, it's broken and needs major editing and part of that has to do with the series having to suppose to finish with MGS2. 3, 4, PW, 5 were never originally planned. But MGS games are great within their SUBTEXT and the overall message they try to convey with each title. Frankly MGS2 as a story was messy, but it's probably the best one with regards to the subtext of what is said. Heck a lot of what happened in MGS2 has come true. Especially with regards to how information is spread and shared, we produce false news claims and people eat it up. We also post a lot of unfiltered garbage, tweets, instagram posts etc etc. I love 2 for its message, but 3 is still the overall best game from a gameplay, subtext, and story structure.
Marko Rabasovic Some great points in there...so, in a way, you're saying the DELIVERY of the plot (and its messages) sorta overrides the flaws in that actual plot itself? I actually agree. A great example is the codec system, especially its 'optional' dialogues. It's not smoothly connected through the gameplay the way these things are 'supposed' to be--in fact, it's pretty much COMPLETELY separate from the gameplay, and must be accessed manually through a menu format--but what it offers in both character and world development, immersion, and ACTUAL real-life information, facts, and statistics can't be beat. The whole "single-word" definition of each game's plot is a gross oversimplification (MGS 1 is "Genetics", etc), but, as you were saying, the "memetics" theme of MGS 2 was almost creepily ahead of its time. I thought MGS 1's 'subtext' was brilliant as well, but I suppose if pressed I would agree with you that MGS 2's has the most to it, is the most grand in scale, and so when taken all together (and separate from the literal plot details) it stands as the strongest.
Marko Rabasovic Sorry my comment is SO long...I wasn't sure how to edit haha. I actually had a 'lil bit more to say, but I put it in this comment so as not to have too crazy a post. It's interesting you say 3 is the best in many ways...when it was still current, I borrowed it from a friend (I owned the first 2, but) and started playing through it. I was immediately thrown off by the lack of the Soliton radar, which had defined the way I played the first 2, and so I found myself stumbling. In the end, a 3rd friend that was living at my house at the time ended up playing through my file for me (with my permission), and so I never beat the game, and even what I did play through was only once, and when I was about 16. I'm guessing I need to find a place to purchase and revisit this??
+mywhychromosome Def do so, one thing that 3 did when it came out was take away the radar because you could now "hide in plain sight" do the camo index system. I felt the same back in the day when it came out, but the preferred version to play is Subsistence or the HD edition of MGS3. They took away the classic top down view and added a 360 degree camera (first time in the series) and it fixed it a lot. Def play it, 3 is hands down my favourite for various reasons.
@@Xarkom89 yes. Exactly. Get the HD Collection, that way you also sorta get the first two MG games(the ones in Outer Heaven and Zanzibar Land) as well as the VR missions So it's sorta like 6 Metal Gear games in it. Plus playing Peace Walker HD is somewhat easier than the PSP version idk why I can't remember why, must be the better controls I think... Idk.
"Jack there's no MEMORY CARD (PlayStation® 2) in the MEMORY CARD slot. You need a MEMORY CARD (PlayStation® 2) to save with. Could you insert the MEMORY CARD (PlayStation® 2) in the MEMORY CARD slot?"
Favorite Metal gear solid by far. This game broke boundaries when it was released. I remember seeing this at gamestop for 4.99 and it became the best 5 dollars I've ever spent.
It’s funny that if you try to speed run without saving you miss all this story, but Jack and Rose’s relationship and revelations revealed through this dialogue is one of the most compelling parts of the game. It humanizes Raiden throughout the game in a way Snake was not in MGS1. What you learn and when you learn it only ratchets up the tension and emotional conflict as the rest of the game’s story unfolds.
I won't say their relationship was the healthiest but consider the existential threats and powers of the Patriots, I'd give them the pass. Besides it's not like we can have a shouting match between them in game even though they wanted to. I just think they are realistic. It's sappy. It's angry. It's fucked up. It's at many times wrong. But that bounce back is candid to their relationship. Time is the biggest killer of this. In less than 24 hours we got an entire span of relationship history. That's not enough time to digest.
I honestly loved this aspect of mgs2 how raiden is everything snake isn't yet theyre drawn to the same conflict. There's a lot of story to raidens character in these too like who he was, is, and pretends to be. Tbh i was like anybody else just playing through these games i listened to codecs every now and again, but this game just makes you think about a lot of things when its over like you have this satisfaction but you want to know more. So then you go back and look at things like this and it just gives you that much more to it's characters. Who cares if rose was whiny or whatever she was literally raidens symbol of his emotions and that just made him all the more a great character.
That conversation at 28:30 is just so... I can't understand how people could hate Raiden. He is by far(or was) a more complex character than Snake. A worst past, tons of traumas, more doubts, etc. I hate how they probably turned him into an edgy cyborg just please the fandom.
Back then people didn't see beyond the spectacle, now with the rise of the internet and the relevance of the subjects we can look back and see what a masterpiece it was.
I think him being a cyborg just adds more to his complexity by the time he reached to that point and he embrace his demons more but at yhe same times shows vulnerability
Actually we don't know what happens between MGS2 and MGS4, only when you reach Naomi Hunter, you will get a call from Raiden, telling us about his trip with a tribe where he have learnt the techniques for hunting "trails"... but still there is no explanation on how he have lost his human body or changed in cyborg. Which is a Shame because yes I still like Raiden as cyborg but for Me best Raiden is Skull Suit Raiden from MGS2!
It’s a shame Rose isn’t ever seen in MGR, just mentioned. But Raiden mentions her and their son a lot in the (unfortunately easy-to-miss) codecs. It’s really sweet. Their relationship was a toxic dumpster fire in MGS2, but it seems like they found a way to make it work out for them after the end of MGS4, and that makes me happy. Rose’s cooking is still implied to be terrible though lol.
No no, its not a dumpster fire at all. Its realistic. Rose can be unreasonable at times, but their relationship is not so horrible. You can tell they have these carefree attitude with each other, but that's just how people who been together long enough treat each other
I remember playing MGS twin snakes and beating it to all hell when I was around 11... Was hard but I still loved it. I even bought mgs2 and 3 a year and a half later. I remember how my dad told me that everyone hated the second game at the time it came out only because of the fact that you didn't play as snake after the Tanker piece. I honestly really liked it. Simply because it introduced a new character and I read up on why Kojima did what he did. It was sort of like a change of pace...like you maybe felt you were entirely helpless... but then you had solid snake sitting right there next to you helping you through the entire mission. I remember thinking it was the coolest shit ever. After beating MGS3 and learning that naked snake was big boss, I was super excited for the fourth game but before I could get a PS3 and BEAT it in time, MGS Ground Zeroes was announced so I got that played it little bit and enjoyed it. I got a PS3 and MGS4 last year too! I have to say that with all my years of playing video games metal gear solid is probably my favorite series among the great lineups. 2 and 4 being particular ones that I actually loved.
A really small moment that's easy to miss. When having the second conversation with rose when she reveals she's a patriot spy, you can see the exact moment she gets replaced with an AI version of her. Her eyes to from normal to blank in a split second. A nice yet creepy detail easily missed.
I don't agree with that. People disliked her for her nagging and incessant prodding and prying. There's something to be said about having someone who cares enough to want to know you fully to support you but that doesn't somehow make her nagging any less annoying or inappropriate during a mission.
Not hard, fool. It's intrinsic to the technology, it's commonsense to the internet etc. Self-awareness and critical thinking was in all things more in the beginning. People are so f---cking up their ass since 2015 or so... All commonsense is gone, everything is constant frantic masturbation about how great and modern one is although they get more retarded by the minute... (Even high-level.) That aside, whenever someone in YT comments says the clichéd phrase (because that's what it is... a sign of retardation right there) "predicted xyz", it's wrong, because everyone knew all along at the time, as common knowledge, and in most cases even many years before that... And see, your comment is 2 years old, and yet it's the same sh*t as anywhere, without change...
@@bfkc111 the other commenter may be naive but your pretentious comment demonstrates a whole other category of social incompetence that is much more obnoxious and unwanted
@@ifeastontoenails I honestly couldn't even follow what he was trying to say, or particularly criticize...it kinda seems like he's just angry at the world (and probably his father) but is channeling it into passerby on YT, lol
The Codec script for MGS3 is really mediocre compared to this game. Not only is the script lacking but most of the actors have unnatural, laboured delivery. EVA and Zero's VA are the only ones that do a good job. The delivery in this video is seamless, like real people having real conversations about real topics to them. The actors have great chemistry.
Agreed. A lot of that may have to do with the fact that Snake was a test tube baby that was genetically engineered . Raiden and Rose were normal people born normally without genetic engineering.
Rose sure divides opinions. Personally I like her. Makes me think of my soulmate. They both have in common that they like to be subtle about stuff, and what I have in common with Raiden is that I usually don't get it, heh.
People need to remember also is that Raiden was talking to an A.I. throughout the game. It wasn't until the end when the real Rose was shown. So the behavior people had an issue with was no doubt a means of getting into Raiden's head like with A.I. Colonel.
I'm sure many will say this isn't ideal writing or the deepest chemistry, but I can't help it, it's kinda sweet how they talk to each other. They at least sound like a cute couple, enough for me to have felt kinda bummed out when I heard they didn't stay together in the sequels
He began the mission as a flawed person but really grows and develops by the end. Just like a young inexperienced soldier would after their first major mission. Genius move by Kojima to have Raiden be the main character.
Rose: "Well, Jack. It sounds like you and Miss Emma are getting along just fine." Gotta admit that part of the conversation was the best and most hilarious. There was real chemistry there between them. And it gives Rose more of a personality.
Jack and Rose would had been a good couple but I’m afraid Raiden just wants to forget I know Jack finds it hard but he should try to open up to her and get married.
Honestly I never hated Rose. Her inclusion in the game is all about humanizing Raiden and making him seem more vulnerable and believable as a character. In MGS1 we played as a suave veteran soldier who was a legend in his own time and effortlessly flirted with nearly every woman that came into his orbit. In MGS2 we play as a green rookie who spends most of the game being henpecked by his girlfriend and dealing with the pressures of an adult relationship. A lot of the conversations Rose and Raiden have feel very genuine and natural, the story of how they first met still sticks in my mind all these years later. And even though she is revealed to be a spy in the end I still believe her love for him is genuine. I much prefer her depiction in this game to the way she is in MGS4.
7:06 Rosemary: "I can't believe it.. Stillman's prosthetic leg was all a big lie!" Raiden: "Don't be too hard on him, Rose." Rosemary: "But he's got no right to go around pretending he's got a prosthetic leg! That's an insult to people who really can't walk!" Raiden: "Everyone's got their own reasons. Sometimes, you've got no choice but to lie..." Rosemary: "... You're right. I guess it is necessary sometimes..." Raiden: "Rose?" Rosemary: "It's nothing. Well, see ya." I understand Rose's anger regarding Peter Stillman lies about his leg, but Raiden is right, everyone's got their own reasons. Sometimes, you've got no choice but to lie.
Great video, id love to have heard them all back then. Unfortunately I never sucked enough to save this many times whilst making so little progress. I mean seriously, who would be fighting Solidus and want to save the game twice?
@@nightmode3782 Truth be told I thought all save dialog was annoying because of that, but it was still interesting. Would be cool if there was a separate channel for talking to rose.
2:10 Why is this conversation so awkward lol Or was Raiden testing her to see if it was the real Rose by sarcastically proclaiming he loves lobster when he really doesn't and knows Rose knows he doesn't.. Or was it just a weird convo lol
@@underratedwolf2526 and he used to eat bullet powder as a kid, I can't even imagine how it must be like... Rose's cooking, I mean. At least now he can just turn off his taste buds and go along with it LOL
I keep saving with Rose but it doesn't load and always leads me back to the beginning of Jack's infiltration, I use the codec frequency but it never saves
@@HoxtonRules Thats called symbolism, dumbass. If the character is poor and doesn't have enough money to buy stuff - that's one thing, but if he posseses any means necessary to live the way he sees fit, yet still lives in a ugly ass, white walls, no TV no nothing room, then there is probably something wrong with him. And there are hell of a lot things wrong with Jack. It's not like all those dialogues were put in there just to annoy you, you know.They are foreshadowing.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Colonel : "Call him Raiden"
Rose : "Jack you want to save ?"
Rose : "Jack ! You remember the day we met ?"
Rose : "Jack, be careful..."
Rose : "Jack, is that you ?"
Rose : "Jack, what are you doing ?"
Rose : "Oh Jack..."
"jack are you okay? how's your murdering going?"
@@supersmashbro596 tbh that`s one of those things that felt weird. Not really out of place, Rose knows what the job consists of, but it does feel weird that she must know that her boyfriend legit murders people and then drags their corpses to lockers as just part of the work that must be done
@@Axl4325 if i renember correctly that wasnt actually rose at the point of the game. It was a the fake colonel pretending.
@@Dumbird0 of course, that´s not Rose, but I mean throughout the game. I feel like it must be awkward
Colonel face palm: "I'll never understand human emotions."
Raiden ate gunpowder since childhood, and still he hates Rose's cooking.
Real Sigma male
That's when yknow he's the one who cooks in the family
@@Love-SensibilityJack: I luckily remember how to cook
*10 years earlier*
Solidus: Jack, I'll teach you how to make eggs
BITCH, I DON'T CARE WHAT DAY TOMORROW IS I HAVE 3 SECONDS TO DEFUSE THIS BOMB!
The relationship between Rose and Jack was one of my favourite features of the game, and, in my opinion, one of the most interesting relationships in gaming history.
Theorist1984 it’s sad real life doesn’t work the same way....
except it was never the real rose, but a manipulative ai.
casting doubt on the entire conversation, and making "her" a manipulative bitch.
bet the real rose isnt so bad.
@@supersmashbro596 it was actually rose to a certain extend, the real rose was taken out of the mission when she revealed she was pregnant. so in this game rose is still a manipulative bitch
@@levi-wd7qn Wasn't she technically working for the Patriots? She then started to really fall for Raiden.
I realize Im pretty off topic but does anyone know of a good place to watch newly released tv shows online ?
After playing this game for 7 hours straight till 4 in the morning, going through all of the colonel's bullshit codec conversation and barely having enough energy to keep my eyes open the last thing I want to see is Rose with pure white eyes as I'm trying to save before I fight Solidus. Really messed me up that night.
La-li-lu-le-lo...
I don't blame you, my brother and I had nightmares playing the last parts of the game when Campbell and rose transition from normal to horrifying. Campbell's skull face and Rose's dead eyes. And that speech.....
The fact people hate this aspect of MGS2 so much makes me love it so much more.
I know right? What other game has you embroiled in relationship drama with your girlfriend in the middle of a military mission? Kojima is a madman and I love him for it. Also, it's not like its being forced on us --- you can skip the codecs whenever you want.
as much as i hate this manipulative bitch, i bet the real rose isn't this toxic
her being an ai sent to manipulate you along with the "colonel" kind of makes this whole exchange actually tolerable, and doesnt affect my judgement of the real rose.
@@supersmashbro596 this rose isn’t A.I. tho. she’s only AI towards the end of the game.
@@BirdAsBond no she and colonel were ai the whole time
@@BirdAsBond how... The hell did you draw that conclusion?
Rose: i accept the good and the bad, Jack.
Raiden: what about the ugly you accept that too?
24:05 - What great foreshadowing to the reveal that Raiden was brought up as a child soldier, a machine, a soulless killer, only coming alive and showing emotion in the battlefied- where his life is on the line.
This shit is kinda heartbreaking, even creepy sometimes, especially after you beat the game and learn about the truth with both of them.
isn't rose fake in this
@@duroorud527 only the last 2 codec calls are fake, otherwise she's the real Rose. she gets removed from the mission when she reveals her association w/ the Patriots right before Raiden reunites with Snake at Arsenal. you can look up the call in which her voice starts to get messed up and fade away as she reveals she's pregnant. that's the moment when she gets taken away by the patriots' grunts
@@ImpossibleCarl69 oh k
she is kinda creepy as ai isn't she
also campbell gets his noodles succed
@@duroorud527 Campbell married Rose to prevent the Patriots from using her and her son (Raiden's kid) as a leverage for the Patriots. And it worked well, pretty much fooling anyone
@@raflystiansahlatif5293 played them like a damn fiidlie
"Want to improve communication in your relationship?" .... Send your man off to fight a war. What an excellent idea
17:49
I've played a lot of video games in my life. I've played the Metal Gear series since i was probably 4. I thought i'd seen everything gaming had to offer, the pinnacle of a narrative in video game form, which was MGS, and i thought i'd seen everything MGS had to offer, i thought i'd seen every side of the story. I'd played them all, beat them on the hardest difficulties, watched my dad beat them all when i was younger.
But when i was 14, replaying them for the first time when i was old or mature enough to fully understand the concepts the game laid out for you, by complete accident i stumbled across this codec message.
In all the years of my life, i think that codec conversation was the first and only time i found my jaw completely dropped. I'd gasped or called out in excitement when playing other games with friends before, but those times it was just a social response, like saying "woahh did you see that?"
But i was alone in my room in the basement, sitting on an old leather chair, looking at my TV set up in front of the mirror attached to the knicked up old dresser i had all my gaming stuff set up on.
And by the end as the codec logged off i felt numb and tingly and i, for no particular reason, glanced off to the right where my mirror was, and my jaw was dropped.
I really think this was the most impressive conversation i've ever heard. In any game, movie, book, fictional or no, after all the obviously very good character development leading up to it that you'd come to expect from a MGS game, this felt more real than any other conversation i've ever heard.
A year late but I'd just like to comment on this cause I do share a Similar experience. But more so in the actual context of the call. I had a heart to heart with one of my first partner's that was almost beat to beat similar to this codec call. I never raised my hand at her like raiden did but I was closed off about how I felt or what my personal feelings were to her. It sound's bad looking back on it but as I got older I also realized how unfair it was to her. I hadn't experienced much in the terms of sharing my own personal burdens or troubles with someone else and just internalized it. I had no problems hearing her out for hers but as time passed she kept trying to get in and I unknowingly kept her locked out. To me I just was not able to trust and let her in despite wanting to. This stemmed from abandonment issue's early on in my life but that's a whole another can of worm's. Anyway, when I heard this codec when I got older. It just hit me so hard cause I understood both sides super well and it was like reliving the past and being able to properly hear her side of the story. It was just so surreal. Metal gear was truly ahead of it's time in so many ways.
@@Nekomon. One of the reasons i still love the conversation is it goes against all the normal "laws" of writing dialogue you'd see in a hollywood movie. It kind of comes out of nowhere, without obvious cues that a big scene is coming up, Rose just kind of lets out emotions all of a sudden; and Raiden doesn't try to console her. He chastises her kind of unfairly and there's no happiness or smiles to be had in the talk, it's really sad and down and it doesn't end better. It doesn't make me connect with the characters and doesn't explain any character traits, it's rather confusing actually and shows more of Raiden's negative traits, like the fact he hit Rose. Any magazine or website would have said this scene was "boring" or "sad" if it were in the newest marvel movie. It deepens the plot, makes me feel for the characters, and makes me more interested, but for reasons a lot different than other stories. I also like the writing and voice acting, it's not "realistic", not at all really, but combined with the music it feels more like a play and it's just a lot more memorable to me.
I had a similar experience. It had a gut punch.
Yep. Mg franchise will do that to ya. I'm still amazed how they created such amazing dialouge, imo some of it is better than some highly appraised Hollywood movies out there.
Everyone gangster til the background music stops
Y'know, when I was 11, I always thought Rose was unbearably annoying and hated whenever it was time for me to save, but now a whole decade later I can acknowledge her as an admirable character. She's dependable, somewhat petty and naggy, but she's loving, as a girlfriend usually is. Their interactions felt too real and I can appreciate Kojima for how well they were handled as a couple.
That conversation with Rose about Dinner makes me Laugh so much xD
"I-I just love lobster. Yeah. Can't wait. Woo-hoo!" ahahah xD
This game is somehow underrated (whilst being a metal gear game, and thus, a blockbuster). And I think a lot of that has to do with the Jack/Raiden and Rose story, and those 2 characters in general, and misreading Kojima's intentions with it. I believe he kinda felt he had already DONE the "badass, emotionally flat" lone hero story with the Shadow Moses plot, and so doing it again would be a redux. Instead he decided to make a comment on the players themselves and the idea of a generation of war voyeurs...Raiden is supposed to be conflicted, emotionally stunted but yearning for the completeness, whereas Snake is perhaps more emotionally developed and complete but cold and stoic. Both characters are super interesting in their own way, but the point is that there was ROOM for both in the MGS series. Sorry ramble
I agree, but with that said MGS2 was one of the titles that became better well after its initial release. I'm more bothered by a lot of the fans raves with the series story over all. In fact being an avid fan of the games myself, I can honestly say the general story is weak, it's broken and needs major editing and part of that has to do with the series having to suppose to finish with MGS2. 3, 4, PW, 5 were never originally planned.
But MGS games are great within their SUBTEXT and the overall message they try to convey with each title. Frankly MGS2 as a story was messy, but it's probably the best one with regards to the subtext of what is said. Heck a lot of what happened in MGS2 has come true. Especially with regards to how information is spread and shared, we produce false news claims and people eat it up. We also post a lot of unfiltered garbage, tweets, instagram posts etc etc.
I love 2 for its message, but 3 is still the overall best game from a gameplay, subtext, and story structure.
Marko Rabasovic Some great points in there...so, in a way, you're saying the DELIVERY of the plot (and its messages) sorta overrides the flaws in that actual plot itself? I actually agree. A great example is the codec system, especially its 'optional' dialogues. It's not smoothly connected through the gameplay the way these things are 'supposed' to be--in fact, it's pretty much COMPLETELY separate from the gameplay, and must be accessed manually through a menu format--but what it offers in both character and world development, immersion, and ACTUAL real-life information, facts, and statistics can't be beat. The whole "single-word" definition of each game's plot is a gross oversimplification (MGS 1 is "Genetics", etc), but, as you were saying, the "memetics" theme of MGS 2 was almost creepily ahead of its time. I thought MGS 1's 'subtext' was brilliant as well, but I suppose if pressed I would agree with you that MGS 2's has the most to it, is the most grand in scale, and so when taken all together (and separate from the literal plot details) it stands as the strongest.
Marko Rabasovic Sorry my comment is SO long...I wasn't sure how to edit haha. I actually had a 'lil bit more to say, but I put it in this comment so as not to have too crazy a post. It's interesting you say 3 is the best in many ways...when it was still current, I borrowed it from a friend (I owned the first 2, but) and started playing through it. I was immediately thrown off by the lack of the Soliton radar, which had defined the way I played the first 2, and so I found myself stumbling. In the end, a 3rd friend that was living at my house at the time ended up playing through my file for me (with my permission), and so I never beat the game, and even what I did play through was only once, and when I was about 16. I'm guessing I need to find a place to purchase and revisit this??
+mywhychromosome Def do so, one thing that 3 did when it came out was take away the radar because you could now "hide in plain sight" do the camo index system. I felt the same back in the day when it came out, but the preferred version to play is Subsistence or the HD edition of MGS3. They took away the classic top down view and added a 360 degree camera (first time in the series) and it fixed it a lot.
Def play it, 3 is hands down my favourite for various reasons.
@@Xarkom89 yes. Exactly. Get the HD Collection, that way you also sorta get the first two MG games(the ones in Outer Heaven and Zanzibar Land) as well as the VR missions
So it's sorta like 6 Metal Gear games in it. Plus playing Peace Walker HD is somewhat easier than the PSP version idk why I can't remember why, must be the better controls I think... Idk.
Kojima or whoever wrote this part did a remarkable job. This emotional drama on codec calls is amazing. Rose and Raiden’s VA delivered as well
Tomokazu fukushima was responsible for the codecs up til mgs3
Defusing a bomb is like starting a relationship
Nebelung Cat ugh
ROSE IM KINDA IN THE MIDDLE OF SOMETHING RIGHT NOW
Defusing a bomb is like the whole relationship imo. Part of the reason I've stayed single since my late 20s.
"Jack there's no MEMORY CARD (PlayStation® 2) in the MEMORY CARD slot. You need a MEMORY CARD (PlayStation® 2) to save with. Could you insert the MEMORY CARD (PlayStation® 2) in the MEMORY CARD slot?"
Ahaha...... ah 4th wall breaking
Favorite Metal gear solid by far. This game broke boundaries when it was released. I remember seeing this at gamestop for 4.99 and it became the best 5 dollars I've ever spent.
It’s funny that if you try to speed run without saving you miss all this story, but Jack and Rose’s relationship and revelations revealed through this dialogue is one of the most compelling parts of the game. It humanizes Raiden throughout the game in a way Snake was not in MGS1. What you learn and when you learn it only ratchets up the tension and emotional conflict as the rest of the game’s story unfolds.
I won't say their relationship was the healthiest but consider the existential threats and powers of the Patriots, I'd give them the pass.
Besides it's not like we can have a shouting match between them in game even though they wanted to.
I just think they are realistic. It's sappy. It's angry. It's fucked up. It's at many times wrong. But that bounce back is candid to their relationship.
Time is the biggest killer of this.
In less than 24 hours we got an entire span of relationship history. That's not enough time to digest.
"Are you two done? Raiden, you're needed on Strut C."
I honestly loved this aspect of mgs2 how raiden is everything snake isn't yet theyre drawn to the same conflict. There's a lot of story to raidens character in these too like who he was, is, and pretends to be. Tbh i was like anybody else just playing through these games i listened to codecs every now and again, but this game just makes you think about a lot of things when its over like you have this satisfaction but you want to know more. So then you go back and look at things like this and it just gives you that much more to it's characters. Who cares if rose was whiny or whatever she was literally raidens symbol of his emotions and that just made him all the more a great character.
Colonel: Call him Raiden for the duration of this mission.
Rose: Yes sir.
Also Rose in each of her codec calls: JAcK iS tHat YoU?!
That conversation at 28:30 is just so...
I can't understand how people could hate Raiden. He is by far(or was) a more complex character than Snake. A worst past, tons of traumas, more doubts, etc. I hate how they probably turned him into an edgy cyborg just please the fandom.
Back then people didn't see beyond the spectacle, now with the rise of the internet and the relevance of the subjects we can look back and see what a masterpiece it was.
@@Grandmaster-Kush Darn You're goddam right about that.
I agree!
I think him being a cyborg just adds more to his complexity by the time he reached to that point and he embrace his demons more but at yhe same times shows vulnerability
Actually we don't know what happens between MGS2 and MGS4, only when you reach Naomi Hunter, you will get a call from Raiden, telling us about his trip with a tribe where he have learnt the techniques for hunting "trails"... but still there is no explanation on how he have lost his human body or changed in cyborg. Which is a Shame because yes I still like Raiden as cyborg but for Me best Raiden is Skull Suit Raiden from MGS2!
somewhere deep inside, im enjoying this....this game
It’s a shame Rose isn’t ever seen in MGR, just mentioned. But Raiden mentions her and their son a lot in the (unfortunately easy-to-miss) codecs. It’s really sweet. Their relationship was a toxic dumpster fire in MGS2, but it seems like they found a way to make it work out for them after the end of MGS4, and that makes me happy. Rose’s cooking is still implied to be terrible though lol.
No no, its not a dumpster fire at all. Its realistic. Rose can be unreasonable at times, but their relationship is not so horrible. You can tell they have these carefree attitude with each other, but that's just how people who been together long enough treat each other
I remember playing MGS twin snakes and beating it to all hell when I was around 11... Was hard but I still loved it.
I even bought mgs2 and 3 a year and a half later. I remember how my dad told me that everyone hated the second game at the time it came out only because of the fact that you didn't play as snake after the Tanker piece. I honestly really liked it. Simply because it introduced a new character and I read up on why Kojima did what he did. It was sort of like a change of pace...like you maybe felt you were entirely helpless... but then you had solid snake sitting right there next to you helping you through the entire mission. I remember thinking it was the coolest shit ever. After beating MGS3 and learning that naked snake was big boss, I was super excited for the fourth game but before I could get a PS3 and BEAT it in time, MGS Ground Zeroes was announced so I got that played it little bit and enjoyed it. I got a PS3 and MGS4 last year too! I have to say that with all my years of playing video games metal gear solid is probably my favorite series among the great lineups. 2 and 4 being particular ones that I actually loved.
SaNdSoN4040 MGS2 is my alll time MGS game, I don’t know why ppl hated it.
Your dad told you that.. Darn you're one lucky guy :)
Juan Tapia simply a sign of the times- people don’t like change.
I love Jack and Rose! Thank you for uploading this. Favorite'd.
A really small moment that's easy to miss. When having the second conversation with rose when she reveals she's a patriot spy, you can see the exact moment she gets replaced with an AI version of her. Her eyes to from normal to blank in a split second. A nice yet creepy detail easily missed.
Rose is Raiden's emotional anchor, and people didn't like that he had a life outside of war, and someone who cared about him. It's that simple.
I don't agree with that. People disliked her for her nagging and incessant prodding and prying.
There's something to be said about having someone who cares enough to want to know you fully to support you but that doesn't somehow make her nagging any less annoying or inappropriate during a mission.
para medic is a save call done right
MrManBuzz a girlfriend doing girlfriend things, they nailed it with her as much as ppl hated it, that’s what they were going for.
@@MrManBuzz Remember it's not the real Rose. It's an AI
@@Firemarioflower What are you talking about? AI Rose only comes after she tells Raiden she's pregnant.
Rose: jack is that you? Jack:..... Rose: what can I do for you jack? Jack:..... Rose: is that you jack? Jack: who do FUCK ELSE WOULD IT BE?!
Decoy Octopus.
Jetstream Sam
Is that raiden? He look so....nice. On revengence he look mean and terrifying.
Yeah, i don't like his Exoskeleton-look either.
this was while he was still 100% human. Before the bad guys turned him into that thing in rising
Wait what? I thought it was just armor, like the halo Spartans armor?
nope. Everything from the chin down is machine. Sometimes he gets coverings that look like skin. But yeah he's a full cyborg by MGS4
+Lee Everett Only his head and spine are real in MGS4. His body is false, hence the white blood.
I wish I had a girlfriend that would tell me to enjoy my murdering. You know, someone who actually cares about the way I feel.
you're a murderer? whoa
Today is the day.
33:06 Now that's fucking creepy
There is a codec convo between them that happens when you go a very long time without saving.
Oh mannn, 23:06 Raiden predicts "Catfishing"
Not hard, fool. It's intrinsic to the technology, it's commonsense to the internet etc. Self-awareness and critical thinking was in all things more in the beginning. People are so f---cking up their ass since 2015 or so... All commonsense is gone, everything is constant frantic masturbation about how great and modern one is although they get more retarded by the minute... (Even high-level.)
That aside, whenever someone in YT comments says the clichéd phrase (because that's what it is... a sign of retardation right there) "predicted xyz", it's wrong, because everyone knew all along at the time, as common knowledge, and in most cases even many years before that...
And see, your comment is 2 years old, and yet it's the same sh*t as anywhere, without change...
@@bfkc111 the other commenter may be naive but your pretentious comment demonstrates a whole other category of social incompetence that is much more obnoxious and unwanted
@@ifeastontoenails I honestly couldn't even follow what he was trying to say, or particularly criticize...it kinda seems like he's just angry at the world (and probably his father) but is channeling it into passerby on YT, lol
Why does Raiden always gets the gift of prophecy
Ironically raiden kind of gets catifished himself
I prefer these moments over Para-Medic's pointless conversations about movies neither me nor Snake will watch in MGS 3. There, I've said it.
The Codec script for MGS3 is really mediocre compared to this game. Not only is the script lacking but most of the actors have unnatural, laboured delivery. EVA and Zero's VA are the only ones that do a good job. The delivery in this video is seamless, like real people having real conversations about real topics to them. The actors have great chemistry.
It's left ambiguous what points in time it was truly Rose radioing Raiden or her AI Representation disguising itself as her.
i'm pretty sure once she revealed she was a spy, she was replaced by the A.I.
8:06 soooo cute 🥰
Quinton Flynn is a great voice actor. He doesn't get the credit for his role as Raiden like he should
Most people know him as Raiden tho
No wonder I'm still single
21 years old and I never had girlfriend. Raiden is a lucky bastard sometimes.
17:55 that conversation got to me
Raiden is deeply in love with Rose.
Two very human charachters, more so then Snake i'd say.
Agreed. A lot of that may have to do with the fact that Snake was a test tube baby that was genetically engineered . Raiden and Rose were normal people born normally without genetic engineering.
Rose sure divides opinions. Personally I like her. Makes me think of my soulmate. They both have in common that they like to be subtle about stuff, and what I have in common with Raiden is that I usually don't get it, heh.
People need to remember also is that Raiden was talking to an A.I. throughout the game. It wasn't until the end when the real Rose was shown. So the behavior people had an issue with was no doubt a means of getting into Raiden's head like with A.I. Colonel.
Well, AKTSHUALLY the master collection says when rose isn't rose anymore (rose at the Beginning is still og rose)
Damn she was raging at the end.
+AntiActionFox l0l
That wasn’t even her.
I'm sure many will say this isn't ideal writing or the deepest chemistry, but I can't help it, it's kinda sweet how they talk to each other. They at least sound like a cute couple, enough for me to have felt kinda bummed out when I heard they didn't stay together in the sequels
that end o.o
GW is really scarry
GW is reality
Her playing with his mind must've made that mission ten times harder smh
Man Rose Funny Af… Bro behind enemy lines fighting a war and she asking him Do you like me 💀💀
played this on 2021, i really loved these codec calls
Am I the only one who liked Raiden?
He grows on you
Raiden is my fav character from MGS
He began the mission as a flawed person but really grows and develops by the end. Just like a young inexperienced soldier would after their first major mission. Genius move by Kojima to have Raiden be the main character.
33:40
That's not GW as rose anymore. That's just GW.
Still a better love story than Twilight and The Notebook
Imagine the next time you call to save after the AI takes over, she just says: “How eager you are to chop away, Jack the Ripper.”
The torture room part is dissapointingly missable. I'm glad I thought to call her then.
Why the hate for Rose? She's caring
may be caring but also extremely annoying
It’s the whole nagging girlfriend while your life is hanging by a thread.
@@se7ensiinz Isn't that what wife's are supposed to do anyways, your supposed to keep eachother in check
You can save 15 % or more on car insurance LOL NOT WHEN YOURE ON A MISSION THAT CAN COST YOU YOUR LIFE AT ANY SECOND.
Juan Tapia aw cmon man thats not a personality problem thats a break from realism
THANKS! sometimes I skip them on accident. THANK YOU!!
17:52 - 20:20
This one reminds me of conversations I've had about how I live.
Specifically 19:31 - 19:53.
The colonel being silent all the way was very strange.
I always thought Rose was cute
*still a better love story than twilight*
EXACTLY 😂
great characters from a great game
2:04 When your girlfriend is bad at cooking that your prefer eating a lobster that cost 5 time your salary of the month.
Rose: "Well, Jack. It sounds like you and Miss Emma are getting along just fine."
Gotta admit that part of the conversation was the best and most hilarious. There was real chemistry there between them. And it gives Rose more of a personality.
Jack and Rose would had been a good couple but I’m afraid Raiden just wants to forget I know Jack finds it hard but he should try to open up to her and get married.
I love these calls and the game
Honestly I never hated Rose. Her inclusion in the game is all about humanizing Raiden and making him seem more vulnerable and believable as a character. In MGS1 we played as a suave veteran soldier who was a legend in his own time and effortlessly flirted with nearly every woman that came into his orbit. In MGS2 we play as a green rookie who spends most of the game being henpecked by his girlfriend and dealing with the pressures of an adult relationship. A lot of the conversations Rose and Raiden have feel very genuine and natural, the story of how they first met still sticks in my mind all these years later. And even though she is revealed to be a spy in the end I still believe her love for him is genuine. I much prefer her depiction in this game to the way she is in MGS4.
7:06 Rosemary: "I can't believe it.. Stillman's prosthetic leg was all a big lie!"
Raiden: "Don't be too hard on him, Rose."
Rosemary: "But he's got no right to go around pretending he's got a prosthetic leg! That's an insult to people who really can't walk!"
Raiden: "Everyone's got their own reasons. Sometimes, you've got no choice but to lie..."
Rosemary: "... You're right. I guess it is necessary sometimes..."
Raiden: "Rose?"
Rosemary: "It's nothing. Well, see ya."
I understand Rose's anger regarding Peter Stillman lies about his leg, but Raiden is right, everyone's got their own reasons. Sometimes, you've got no choice but to lie.
Great video, id love to have heard them all back then. Unfortunately I never sucked enough to save this many times whilst making so little progress.
I mean seriously, who would be fighting Solidus and want to save the game twice?
Wait a second, it is me or Rose seems different with human version and AI version?
Rose AI seems looking directly to player while real Rose doesn't
It was genuinly funny to hear her crying about how Raiden’s room was arranged
She described my room perfectly. :/ (Around 19:50)
OH NOO I AM PLAYING METAL GEAR 2 ON PLAYSTATION 5 NOW I AM GOING TO HEAR ROSE TALK ABOUT WHY DON'T YOU LOVE ME
Rose can't cook lmao XD
OH MY GOD WHO CARES. Snake gets Meilings Proverbs and Big Boss got Paramedics super cute movie chats and Raiden gets this. Poor Raiden.
I thought it was good...
@@topfrogger492 Ngl I thought it was annoying most of the time, I mean I just wanted to save jeez.
@@nightmode3782 Truth be told I thought all save dialog was annoying because of that, but it was still interesting. Would be cool if there was a separate channel for talking to rose.
@@nightmode3782my man you can just skip lol
2:10
Why is this conversation so awkward lol
Or was Raiden testing her to see if it was the real Rose by sarcastically proclaiming he loves lobster when he really doesn't and knows Rose knows he doesn't..
Or was it just a weird convo lol
he mentions going out just after Rose talks about cooking dinner, so maybe Raiden is just afraid of her cooking, lol
Raiden told Solid Snake that rations were better than Rose’s cooking
@@underratedwolf2526 and he used to eat bullet powder as a kid, I can't even imagine how it must be like... Rose's cooking, I mean. At least now he can just turn off his taste buds and go along with it LOL
Yeah its canon that Rose's cooking is god awful lol, the colonel, raiden and snake mention it a few times
I keep saving with Rose but it doesn't load and always leads me back to the beginning of Jack's infiltration, I use the codec frequency but it never saves
O
The kitchen was never cleaned
I've played this game for a very long time and i never knew half of these post-save conversations occured!
Do you know what I hate?????? THEY NEVER BEEN KİSSİNG
They do
...They literally had a child. I’m pretty sure first base was already passed at some point.
Rose is nothing compare to my waifu Mei Ling
idgaf what anyone says they're adorable together
15:13 That literally *IS* the truth...
So solid snake is dead the. The head of the group was either Solidus or Ocelot liquid snake.
You know, this game had a lot Raiden on it😏
Get out 🤣
@@lukejones7164 🤣🤣🤣🤣
not gonna lie but I'd love to have a girlfriend like Rose
Same.
There’s no women out there like Rosemary
A liar?
Same here man...
But wich one the ai or the ya know the real one
Where can I find a clip or time stamp of rose with dead eyes?
Hmmm Jack and Rose...
This is the best video Ever!!! ;)
I HIGHLY disapprove.
Well goddamn rose but i have a room like that and no one says its like a fricking prison cell Q.Q
Lol hahha poor guy, why do you have your room like that ?
@@howlgalarza3447 Student life my boi.
@@HoxtonRules Thats called symbolism, dumbass.
If the character is poor and doesn't have enough money to buy stuff - that's one thing, but if he posseses any means necessary to live the way he sees fit, yet still lives in a ugly ass, white walls, no TV no nothing room, then there is probably something wrong with him. And there are hell of a lot things wrong with Jack.
It's not like all those dialogues were put in there just to annoy you, you know.They are foreshadowing.
You missed a few.
The call when he smokes,has a magazine, or fatmans bomb location.
@@MigPlz91LivestreamOnly I love the one when you're wearing a Box, I was hoping it would be here :(
She reminds me of my crazy ex!! What a nightmare! She must be a Capricorn!
And this is why snake snap raiden out his bullshit in metal gear solid 4
How cute..
27:41 who's the woman here, hey Jack?