My adult son and I flew on 909 about 5 months before the crash. Being the recent owner of a 1947 Piper Cub, and an aircraft structures design engineer, having to consistently blow out the magnetos to get the engines started is setting off red flags. If the engines are not reliable to start without playing with the magnetos, they shouldn’t be taking paid passengers flying, or even flying the plane anyway.
In the interview with the surviving crew member, it was asked if the engines were covered or anything and it was “no” they were just left out on the ramp. I’m sure about “constantly “ blowing out mags- the flight engineer testified that it was actually his first time.
Me too. There were some reports shortly after the crash that the flight was running late and that there was some haste to get airborne. I used to have on old 1SG that always said that if you start out right you end up right. Seems to be good advice. And it also appears that as usual, there were multiple factors that contributed to this accident. If a few things had been different....
Yeah, this whole situation was a sh!tshow from start to finish. I read through most of that docket late into the night a few days back. The survivor stories were chilling. Hope the Collings Foundation gets their maintenance in order, or else we'll never see these birds fly again.
Having been involved in maintenance for all of my military career { MO } I can promise this would not have flown...and having seen many times when it had to fly { Vietnam and Gulf War} there are ways to make sure its right and flyable which did not seem to happen.
Thank you Dan for taking time to sift through the mountain of paperwork in this accident to bring us knowledge. I pray that as details emerge from the findings on the final release of the NTSB's final report, we as pilots can have takeaways that make complete sense. It sometimes seems like we live in a world of shortcuts and often times those bite us in the tail feathers!! We as pilots need to take the time to complete all tasks at hand and if something seems wrong, take the time to stop and figure it out!! Great job on this video Dan!!
I appreciate this docket summary of the crash. My Mom and I flew on this plane at Bradley Airport, two days prior to the crash. The crash really shook me to my core.
I remember the safety briefing I was given before flying Crazy Horse (A TF-51D Mustang) by Lee Lauderback. We wore Parachutes and he said in case of trouble, he would open the canopy, then I was to climb on the wing and roll off. If the plane was on fire he would pop the canopy roll over then I would release the seat harness and I would drop out of the plane. He emphasized in both cases to remember to pull the rip cord!
It was surreal when I heard the news of this plane crashing. Just like you, I saw the B17 earlier that year. I also was fortunate enough to take a flight on the B24 Liberator “Witchcraft”. One of the most memorable moments of my life. RIP to the pilot, crew, and passengers.
Exact same story for me. They must have stood on the brakes for 5 minutes when they ran up the engines on my Witchcraft ride. Got me a bit worried, but luckily all 4 engines seemed to run OK that day. Makes me wonder now what those spark plugs look like....
Great information on whathappend.I flew on 909 years ago and got to work on the tail section of the B-24 while it was still in pieces in Stow Mass.My son and I where on 909 while it was in Nashua N.H. a couple of days before the tragedy, and I said to my son"boy she's looking old,could use a paint job". Little did I know that a couple of days later she would be gone taking those poor people with her.I love those old warbirds and hope that they continue to be part of living history and inspire young people to love aviation like I did as a young boy.
I had the privilege of flying on that very B-17, and the B-24, on two different occasions when they came through Denton. I have a lot of good video and photos from both flights. As a member of the airport staff, I would work closely with the pilots and crew during their visits, and I spoke directly with Mack on a couple of occasions. It was a real shock to hear about this crash when it happened, and I was heartbroken when I found out about those who died.
How do you feel about the shoddy maintenance that Mack was responsible for? Sounds like another case of the normalization of deviation. The same root cause that brought down two multimillion dollar space shuttles.
I have zero information about that, thus I have no opinion. It was a tragedy, and I feel terrible for the loss of life as well as the loss of the airplane. I am not out to blame anyone. Peace, and good health to you.
I walked through that B-17 in 1992 as a 12 yr old kid. Through the years it often visited our home airport with the B-24 and the other Collings foundation aircraft. A couple years ago I had the amazing opportunity to fly in the 909 during one of their visits. It was a childhood dream come true and something I will never forget. I will miss hearing the dull roar of those big radial engines as it flew overhead and we high tailed it to the airport to go see them come in. It was very sad to hear of this tragic accident and my heart goes out to all the friends & family who were affected by it.
Nice video Dan. B-17's and F4U's are also my favorites. While safety is the most important part of flying, it's also impoertant to keep these historical aircraft safe so we can preserve our history.
just about once every year In CT i would see that b17 an b24 flying low. Would give me chills. I always knew it was them from the sound of the engines, very distinct. Very sad to think I wont be seeing it anymore... as a kid I went to the Tweed airshow and both the b17 and b24 were there. It was the last day and when they left they did a few low level fly byes..i think the wing tips were 5 ft off the ground...ill never forget that...
This B17 visited Helena where my WW2 veteran Dad got to see all 4. His Dad, my Grandfather, helped build that B24. Dad did P47s but had flown on P40s, B17s, B26s before the P47. He departed this year. But thanks to the Collings foundation for bringing these planes here and helping Dad revive memories of his youth.
I flew on this B17 in 1990 in manchester nh and we were flying over the city to get excitement for an air show and the P51 "ain't missbehaving " flew in close formation that is one of the greatest memories I have! thanks for this video it does answer many questions I had ,as a pilot I have a cessna140 a little smaller but still a tail dragger . I'm so sad about this great loss
Hay Grim remember you and I putting up all that crowd control fence and how hard we work those were the good old days.I was on that flight with ya I have a great picture of that P-51 on the right waste window
@@grimdrown7293 sure thing when this damn virus is over or we get the shots .You still at the Harley place or are you retired.I am Merry Christmas man.
Great video. I live 4mi from Bradley and a friend of mine was unfortunate to have his father on that plane. He said he’s sad that his father is gone but knows how much that experience meant to him. It was something he’d always wanted to do.
This is very sad to see and a little scary. When the 909 came to Indiana a few years ago my wife and I had the thrill of flying in it. Of course Mac was our pilot and it was a pleasure to watch him before I went up front for a breathtaking ride. I am very sorry to see what happened, but I am so glad we got to have the experience.
Sad! I paid $550 and flew on this 7:18 9-0-9 plane in Mountain View, California. I flew on May 19th, 2019. We flew around at about 3000 feet and it was very noisy. I got terrible air sick 1/2 way through the 40 minute flight time. I got loads of great video… walk around and over the bomb bay, even got into the front area under the pilots. Wires all over the place but plane purred fine. Saw no safety violation, no oil, no popping. The fumes got me sick… 5 passengers. Plane was smooth and no chop. Took me 1 hour after I landed to recover. After we landed, I tossed a 1942 50 cent piece to the young pilot saying “thanks for getting me back in the ground. MAT WAS NOT FLYING… guy looked 35 ish. I will miss hearing the B-17 and B-24 flying over the SF Bay Area.
Decades ago I was visiting my parents in Western Pennsylvania when I heard the roar of a large propeller driven aircraft. My dad, a WWII veteran immediately recognized the sound of a B-17. I ran outside to get just a glimpse of it, looking like it was going to land. We piled in the car and headed to the local airport where Sentimental Journey had just landed, along with an He-111 and if I recall, a P-47. What a thrill to actually board those historic aircraft as it brought them to life for me, and back to life for my pop. Gotta keep em flying!
Years ago I was a part of a television documentary looking at warbirds and the men and women who flew them and keep them flying, and in the course of it I got some flights in a few, which was a dream come true and fantastic experiences. It's chilling in retrospect because a B-26 I got a ride in crashed with passengers a few years after and the day after I flew in it, I watched it abort a takeoff due to a prop governor issue. I knew historically the B-26 could be deadly to inexperienced pilots but I had no reason not to trust the pilots' abilities - I didn't hesitate to take that ride. There was a pre-flight briefing with the usual cautions to be belted in for takeoff and landing as well as pointing out exposed control systems and the like to avoid. No explanation for how to exit in an emergency and once in flight I had the run of the aircraft. I came across a comment to the NTSB report on the B-26 crash from a man who identified himself as a former WWII B-26 pilot instructor and he was critical of how the pilots flew the aircraft on landing. He described the dangers on how they made their landing approach and how it was an accident waiting to happen. And reading that I remembered his description matched how they made their landing approach when I had my flight. It was a long, high powered approach, the flaps and gear were down, and it was a long straight approach at about 250', left hand seat had the yoke, right hand seat had the throttles. The NTSB determined they were low and slow with full flaps, gear down, and a lot of power when they lost an engine on their landing approach. Five people died, including two passengers. Could it have been avoided? I think so. Could this deadly tragedy with this B17 be avoided. I think so. There is no silver bullet except to not fly these aircraft, and that would also be tragic. Short of that, and I don't know how you make it happen across the board, these antique aircraft have to be operated with a keen sense of if there is any problem - particularly with engines/power, you don't fly. And unless it's a ferry flight, all flights with passengers remain in airspace and at altitude sufficient to make a runway. Beyond that, at very least simulator training for engine out situations.
Another major problem was that Mac was not just the pilot but also head of mechanic which is in my book a serious conflict of interest. A mechanic is worried about safety and wont let a plane fly until it is deemed safe. But a pilot wants to fly, end of story. My brother in law Robert Riddell died on this flight leaving my sister a widow, his two kids fatherless and his grandson without a grandfather. And also left behind shattered dreams and a big hole in our hearts. These planes are indeed part of our history but they were never meant for joyriding. They should viewed on the ground and let the pilots and crew chiefs take the risk in the air.
Hey Dan ! Thanks for the update... Went out to the airport and saw a crumpled up piece of metal , it used to be a 172 ( the same one that I had 1.5 hrs of duel in the night before ) . Your right about that being an eerie feeling! Unfortunately somebody's head will roll , I've rarely heard of an investigation where blame wasn't placed with someone. Seems to me that the majority of the time that ' someone ' usually isn't around to explain and\or defend themselves! May God bless the deceased and their loved ones!
My favorite WWll plane is the P-51 but I love Corsairs and Wildcats too, I have been very fortunate to fly in a B-17 and several other fantastic airplanes with the Confederate Airforce, an awesome bunch of old timers and great pilots to be sure. My friend restored a T-6 Trainer that recently went to OshGosh Wisconsin Airshow and that plane took away every single first prize for that particular aircraft. He is a great aircraft restorer, used to restore old cars, in fact when he was just 11 years old he restored his first Model A. I purchased a T-28 and restored it, This B-17 crash brought many thoughts and feelings to the surface for me, these aircrafts are so rare and such an important part of American history , I have a other friend who mapped out a few aircrafts such as P-51's etc. he creates these aircraft from the patterns he has made and this, to me, was an ingenious idea. Just thinking aloud. Anyway this crash was such a sad week for me. I was just watching some old footage of the Memphis Belle, a truly amazing plane and crew, very few of these managed to make it thru its many flying missions and back home safely most crews knew that the plane they were flying over enemy territory had a liklihood of not making it back home, this one managed to do just this. The flying tigers ( P-51's ) sed to fly out with them and gradually leave them to continue their bombing mission on their own. I know that the famous German Stuka aircraft thatusedto terrorize England during the German air raids with its frightening sirens which would go off as the pilots practically nose dived straight down towards the English townships these aircraft had the ability to level themselves out even if the G Forces knocked the pilots out, G-Forces are crazy, I believe that today there are only 3 German Stukas left in the world one of them sits in the Smithsonian in Washington D.C. Yes this crash was a devistating and unfortunate crash that shouldn't have occurred. We never know when things are going to go wrong, My friend experienced trouble with the FASA after a charter plane he worked on crashed due to pilot error, ( no License! ) the FAA hammered him so badly that one day while walking and talking idly he mentioned that he was planning on making violins instead of working on aircraft, doesnt even play the violin, but shit howdy the man started making violins, go figure, wins 1st place in OshKosh and the FAA hassle him to the extent that he hangs up his airframe and powerplant license in favor of rare wood and a few carving woodworking tools. thanks for letting me speak sorry for the book.
That's a damn shame. I had a very different experience with the Commemorative Air Force. I bought a ticket for a flight in the B-24 Liberator (Diamond Lil). There was a delay because Engine #2 needed an oil change. Idk if they taught us how to open the door. A couple of them were back there for the tour anyway. Otherwise, I recall them briefing us on absolutely everything. Engines started normally, and we all had a great time. 10/10 would recommend.
Thank you Dan great report and review we always trained when I was in the military being a mechanic, crew chief and flight engineer on the CH47 Chinook helicopter for 9 years I was meticulous on everything I did because I knew I was responsible for all the lives on board so I am strong on safety. God 🙏 bless you all and Merry Christmas.
I was blessed to get a ride on both the Collings Foundation B-17 and B-24 and they were both pinnacle experiences in my life. I was also very much aware that I could die in one, should there be an issue. It was a risk I was willing to accept and would do so today too. It is tragic what happened to the 9-oh-9 and I do believe safety and training should be upgraded but I agree that it will be a tremendous loss if these flights around the nation and these living history experiences are no more.
I live 6NM SW of KBDL, and I recall seeing one of the other planes flying south a week later at around 1500 feet. It was a surreal sight. When I got home, I checked the liveatc recording. I'm not going to lie, I burst into tears hearing the tribute. Thanks for doing this video (along with Blancolirio)!
I was on that plane for a flight 2 weeks to the day before that tragic flight. The crew did instruct us the proper use of the seatbelts. I was the last one on the plane the last flight of the day 2 weeks before and as I got in, I watched on how to close/open the rear starboard hatch. I thought "I can open that in case anything happens".
I had a ride on their B-24 “Witchcraft” 4 months before 909’s tragic end. I was glad to be in the back near the open air waist gunner positions: it was especially fantastic looking out there and holding my hand in the slipstream. But I also thought it would be quite handy to get out of there fast through those waist positions on the ground if necessary.
From what I'm hearing, there was no FAA oversight. You are right, we don't need more regulations. We need enforcement of the regulations we have on the books.
I had the honor of flying on Aluminum Overcast operated by Oshkosh EAA about 10 years ago. My father (Ret. AF) later flew on 9-0-9. Memories we'll never forget. I don't remember any safety briefing, which luckily we didn't end up needing. This is an excellent video, but wrongfully harps on "heavy burdens of bureaucracy". We know that corporations (and to a large extent, people) can't be trusted to entirely police themselves. Shortcuts or blatantly dangerous actions will be taken, yes sometimes even if there's the risk of a financial penalty but having procedures and regulations in place at least provides a framework for safer operation. The families of those that perished on 9-0-9 surely don't feel like a few more rules for operating these glorious, potentially deadly machines should be considered overly burdensome.
Well done, Dan. And excellent points about situational awareness in EVERYTHING you do today. It's not the same world we left behind in the 20th Century ... My dad and I stood under the wing of Nine-O-Nine just 10 days prior to this crash, chatting with the mechanic as he worked on #3. Wasn't a big deal, since there's always some fiddling required from time to time on these old birds. That same day, the P-51 Mustang was backfiring up a storm as she taxied - made one lap around and came right back. Was just the pilot with no passengers, presumably working a bug out of the ignition. Amazing how quickly things can happen. I wish I had spent the $450 for the ride on the B-17 that day. Never in a million years did I think that would be the last time I'd ever be standing near her, or the pilots.
I flew on 909 in August 2017. It was a memorable flight. I don't recall any safety briefing. And we returned with no problems. Things go wrong at times and life goes on.
So sad to see. Flew as a passenger on this plane, dream come true. To see it crash was horrible. Wish it never happened. Always double check your conditions when flying. Condolences 🙏
I fly airlines here in Europe and own a T6 Texan in Switzerland. Everything you said, your analysis is absolutely correct. Nothing replace training and SOP’s. We all need to learn from their mistakes and get safer. No one can blame that crew, we weren’t on board of that plane, we just need to learn to get better.
Tragic!! I went up in the "909" in Feb. 2019. I almost cried when I get the news. On my flight, as on all flights, they let you walk about the plane once it got airborne. It's a bit surreal knowing that I stood behind capt. "Mac" on that flight,........and now he's gone.
I am good friends with a man who is 102 yrs. of age --he drives every day to the facility where I work to visit his wife. He is a WW2 veteran who flew P-47's during his career; I do remember him mentioning DC-3's as well when we got lunch last month. He was recently admitted into the Quiet Birdman organization...I help him out when I see him; usually I park his Buick. I love this guy, and that's the least I can do. This is in West Hartford, CT. So we are very familiar Bradley Field (my grandfather worked the tower there, supposedly he had met the pilot who the airport is named after --Lt. Eugene Bradley, who crashed his P-40 there on Aug.21, 1941). I would love for someone like yourself to interview him while he's still around, as his 101 year old brother just passed recently. He will turn 103 in April.
I flew on this very B-17 at Salem, OR in June 2019. I'd been thinking about a flight like this for years since my father was a B-17 pilot in WWII with 381st Bomb Group Heavy. He flew 28 missions. I don't remember a safety briefing, but that was a year and a half ago and I was focused on the overall experience. I wish I'd arranged for a B-17 flight with my father when he was alive. We both attended the 50th Anniversary of the B-17's development at Boeing Field in 1985. My flight last June was a reminder and tribute. I wore my father's bomber jacket.
It was a 75 yo boomer whose arrogance killed 6 people along with himself From Hackaday *Poor Maintenance Could Have Led To Fatal B-17 Crash | Hackaday* hackaday.com/2020/03/28/poor-maintenance-could-have-led-to-fatal-b-17-crash/ It’s always difficult to dive in and comment on a tragic case like this, but I feel my experience has some relevance because the FAA’s findings accord with some of that. I flew as a passenger in both the Collings Foundation B-17 and B-24 on consecutive years. I took a pilot’s licence some time ago and I maintain all my own vehicles. I greatly enjoyed the two flights I took but I had some concerns. At the time it was clear to me just how much physical exertion controlling the B-17 caused the now-deceased lead pilot Ernest McCauley. He was in his early sixties at the time but it was obviously considerable effort and he was only flying round on a simple joy-ride. At the time of the fatal crash he was 75 and he was attempting to control a large, heavy and malfunctioning machine at low altitude. His co-pilot was 71. Regardless of any other culpability on his part or that of the Collings Foundation it strikes me that a pilot of such advanced age is not really who you want at the controls in a crisis situation. The pilots who flew these bombers in WW2 were 50 years younger, far fitter and often experienced at landing B-17s with one or more engines down. As for the passengers, although we were strapped down for take-off we were told we could release the straps almost the moment we rotated and left the ground. On my flights the passengers were all moving about the aircraft immediately. I do not know whether on the fatal flight they had been told to strap themselves back in. I do not recall that anything beyond the most cursory pre-flight checks were made, including a magneto test. Much has been made of Ernest McCauley’s 7,000 hours experience but none of that surely involved trying to execute emergency landings with only two engines working properly. In short, I’m not sure how useful his experience would have been in this exceptionally hazardous situation. With only the two port engines working properly the aircraft would inevitably have yawed to starboard as it came in, requiring the pilots to try and counteract that extreme force (the B-17 is pulled that way as a matter of course because of prop rotation - just watch the take-off sequence in the Memphis Belle movie) while landing. The fact that there had already been engine trouble that day ought to have meant he should have used his experience to decide not to take off, and certainly not to take off with passengers before he had ascertained everything was working properly.
Excellent documentary - I especially appreciate this updated version. March 22, 2003 (Birmingham, AL) was the only opportunity I had to fly on this historical aircraft. So sad and tragic are the events that led to the loss of human life and an irreplaceable fixture of history now gone forever. As you so appropriately pointed out, just a few changes in decisions made on this day could have possibly resulted in so many different outcomes - most importantly no loss of life. BTW, Steve Rabbs was my pilot and Mac was the co-pilot.
An interesting video with footage I hadn't seen. What you don't mention is that Ernest 'Mac' McCauley was a one-man maintenance crew for the 909 and either he wasn't very good at it or wasn't up the job, given the mis-gapped plugs on the failing engines and the botch wire to one of the mags which was why nos. 3 and 4 were misfiring. That aircraft should never have taken off and he ought to have known not to to have tried. I flew on the 909 in Illinois in 2007 and the casual approach to prepping passengers was well established back then. I could see the enormous physical load on two elderly pilots (one of whom was Mac) trying to heave on the controls, an experience matched a year later on the B-24. On 23 July 2009 I caught up with the outfit once more - I won't forget them trying to fix the B-17's tail wheel tire with a tire repair patch kit like they were fixing a bicycle. I didn't realize then that I was looking at a way of working that would lead to the 2019 disaster, but I was shocked. They weren't equipped with a spare inner tube (which they should have been) and under no circumstances should they have attempted a repair like that on an aircraft tire. I have a picture of Mac kneeling on the ground trying to fix the hole in the old tube. Presumably they didn't want to disappoint passengers and nor did they want to hand back the money - just like in 2019. My flights on the B-17 and B-24 were two of the greatest experiences of my life for which I am grateful but what I saw in with the tire repair job in 2009 told me I'd never fly in an old warbird again.
Such a huge tragedy. Prayers for the deceased and for the injured. A very sad day as I have been in that plane many times as I live in New Smyrna Beach and you could always find the 909 getting maintained during the winter.
@@TakingOff Guess it is in my brain from my time in the 1980's. Some things you never forget. I am always looking around when I am out. Even watching mirrors and other people in vehicles. Training does stay with you...
I've wanted to fly on the B17 as long as I can remember. My mother built these planes during the war. I hope they don't ban them from flying. How many commercial flights have crashed? How many have died? Yet they still get to fly.
At 5 seconds into the video you say "#4 engine almost immediately starts backfiring". No, it didn't. #4 engine was running just fine. Then you say "The engine next to it stops". Correct. This is the #3 engine. This was the engine that was backfiring, NOT #4. It tore itself apart, throwing large pieces of the engine, including cylinders and pistons, in all directions. The pilot didn't notice that the #3 engine had blown up (why the hell not?). He assumed it was #4 without checking or asking, as required. This resulted in 7 people dying. You say "You can't maintain altitude on 2 engines". Correct. What do you do? Well, you could restart #4 and fly normally, but Mac had no clue that engine #4 was perfectly fine. Why not? Because he was 75 years old and confused. You are less than pattern altitude and descending. Do you land on the runway almost underneath you? You & I would, but the pilot that had more time in B-17s than any other person on planet earth decided to continue away from the runway and fly a mile further, then make a 180 degree turn to line up with another runway on 2 engines, all the while losing altitude. Why? He wasn't stupid, but he WAS 75 years old and very forgetful. He forgot a LOT of things on this flight. His forgetfulness cost 7 people their lives. This forgetfulness had been apparent for some time, but, "He was the highest time pilot on the B-17 in the world" so his forgetfulness was forgiven again and again, and again. Mac was glorified by pilots around the country, even after the crash. This glorification, in my opinion, led to the deaths of 7 innocent people. Mac was either incompetent at flying the B-17, which I don't believe, or he had so much experience he was convinced he was infallible to mistakes in judgement. No one is.
My son and I flew on 909 twice in 2014. Never thought about it but no, there were no safety briefings. Frankly, we didn't think about it then either. We were having too good a time to notice such things. That said, the crew and flights were amazing and, obviously, successful. I sincerely hope things get sorted out and they can continue offering flights to the public.
I have flown on Collings aircraft a number of times over the years, with multiple flights in Nine-O-Nine, one flight in their B-24 "Witchcraft", and other planes as well. I have also flown as passenger on historic aircraft operated by the Commemorative Air Force and the EAA. I never was on a flight with any of them that did NOT include a safety briefing for the passengers. Sometimes the briefing was by the pilot in command, other times it was by the flight engineer or loadmaster. I have seen many instances where some passengers were not paying attention to the briefing, or were fooling with their camera, , etc. On every Nine-O-Nine flight I was on, the briefing included the two most likely emergency egress portals (for waist position passengers), including the rear side hatch. We were cautioned that it was a "kick out" door, and that it might fall out if we were to put our weight on it, so STAY AWAY from it in flight, but definitely give it a push or kick in case of emergency on the ground. We were cautioned every time about taking care when walking through the bomb bay, not hanging into control cables, and many other things. I did notice that the safety briefings did not seem to follow a script, and the person giving the briefing was not holding a checklist of things to say. The style of the briefing also seemed to depend on who was giving it. Some were matter of fact, some had a bit of levity, which I think helps keep the passengers engaged in the briefing (flight attendants on commercial aircraft often do likewise these days). I DID think every time that it would have been better to give the briefing, or parts of it anyway, further way from other operating aircraft, because sometimes part of the briefing might be drowned out by the noise of other aircraft in operation nearby. Personally, I always hung on every word, and if I did not hear something clearly, I would speak up and ask for it to be repeated. I am sure that some percentage of passengers are predisposed to tune out such briefings. I can't say whether testimonies in this case saying that there was no safety briefing reflect the truth of there being no briefing, or perhaps just reflect that many people just....don't....listen.
The post-crash analysis of the magnetos on 3 and 4 indicates that probably both engines would have stopped, let alone exceeded the allowed rpm drop, during the run-up checks if they had been carried out. So a prima facie mechanical issue was in fact a multi-level human factors problem, all the way up to government oversight.
In the 1980s 909 crashed at BVI in Pennsylvania. In 1989 - 1990 I was doing flight training at BVI, Stensin Aviation, and 909 was scattered all about, on the ramp, in the nearby hangars, as VERY DEVOTED men worked tirelessly in all sorts of weather just to get 909 in ferriable condition. It seems they worked on it for YEARS.
Because a pilot has the most flying hours in a particular aircraft does not mean that he is the most qualified in that aircraft. I will not comment on several mistakes in judgement made on this particular flight.
Sshhh! What do you really want to make HR actually earn their checks? Blind numerical experience requirements, as a basis for selecting people for a job, is clearly the superior method.
I would add that I'm now 67 years old and I'm not as sharp as I used to be. B-17's being flown in WWII were being flown by young kids in their 20's not by guys in their mid-70's. Even at only 67 I'm already starting to wonder how much longer I will be able to safely drive a car. I did aviation maintenance in the Air Force during my 20's and 30's and frankly at my age I don't think I'd be a good choice to perform maintenance on an aircraft let alone to fly one with passengers aboard.
@@joevignolor4u949 Hell I went back to college around 40 and found I was not nearly as quick on the uptake as I was at 20, though i made up for it with better study habits. As they say, youth is wasted on the young.
@@seizetheday8298 Well sorry you don't like my name! and to judge someone by there name I would think is well below you sir! I would never question Mike in his commercial flying ability! He was a very good pilot. I did check him out! However As I understand it the pilot flying the B-17 did his own check ride for him. So you feel he was 100% capable to fly the B-17 on his own? sadly there were some terrible mistakes made,,,,, A good second should have picked them up and help correct the problems, I do think they did the best they could. I just do not feel, he or the pilot made the right calls,,,, they never should have taxied much got air born.,,,,,,,,, will wait for NTSB final report. It;s a terrible loss and never should have happened ! you know that much. And remember I spent many years working on these ole war birds for the confederate Air force when I was in Texas. I understand very well about the engines/mags and so on! As I said it never should have flown that terrible day! BTW ty for you're service!
Having been a passenger in the 909 approximately two weeks before it crashed, I read the actual NTSB report with great interest. I was shocked and angered by what it reported. There was no real independent oversight of the plane’s maintenance or safety program. As I recall, spark plugs were worn and improperly gapped, and leads to at least two of the magnetos were jury rigged, which allowed for arcing and engine failure. These mechanical shortcomings indicate an unacceptable level of complacency and risk-taking. In addition, the accident pilot was not only the chief mechanic but also the Director of maintenance, clearly an extremely lax and flawed safety management system. The Collings foundation deserved to have its permits rescinded. I think this video report under states the irresponsibility that the Collings foundation demonstrated, as well as some unconscionable mechanical work done on the plane. The lives lost are truly a tragedy, and the loss of that beautiful plane is sad, too.
I think I was aboard this B-17 twice on the ground, In Monterey Ca., also most recently in Marathon, fl. a couple of years ago...Trying to remember, the same paint job...
I don't know, but I think, if I lost even one engine on TO, I would have immediately declared EMERGENCY! and headed for the first available runway. I'm not licensed, but I'm pretty sure those would be my first thoughts. My dad flew the B-24, once to a safe landing, a hundred miles distant with 2 out on same side. April 8th, 1944, 100 ME109s head -on single pass. His bird was #4 in the lead box of the entire 8th AF, Friedrickshaven. I even have the bomb load data, and a few parts of one his planes. One died, tailgunner. He would have made it if he had the ripcord in his hand when they shoved him out. He was stunned by a shell burst 20mm in the tail. I heard the story from my dad's radioman. He never spoke of it, likely feeling responsible. But who would feel confident landing in this condition? It was the only time in 33 missions he ever flew a named plane: Judy's Buggy. I still have a plate that says R-Bar. We had, once, 50 cal. shells, but as kids took the bullets off and lit the powder on fire with sparklers.
I have my own hunches and opinions of what probably happened, but one thing strikes me after seeing the mags taken from these 2 engines...WHY is there not some type of electronic ignition upgrade/conversion for these engines to replace the fiddly old points and condenser?..seems like it could be done, and would not even be visible as far as originality was concerned..hotter, more reliable spark, and you would still have 2 in case one failed..I mean, there are conversions like this for old cars, old tractors, and even old lawnmower engines..so why not for old aircraft engines?....
G'day, To retrofit a Wright Cyclone with your modern Solid State Brainfart of an Ignition System would require the Engine Manufacturer to approve the Changes to the Type Certificate. And the Curtiss Wright Company isn't a Business Entity any more, while the Corporation which bought out the Company which bought out Curtiss Wright is not now remotely interested in wasting any Shareholders' money on making a few remaining WW-2 Museum-Pieces a little bit more reliable, possibly, perhaps, if the Chip doesn't fry itself... AND, meanwhile, ALL of the people who are interested in paying to see, and fly inside, rare old Aeroplanes - are only paying for the AUTHENTICITY, and the Risk which they take isactually an integral part of the Thrill into which they buy. Nobody pays to see, or ride in, a fake Plastic Replica.. And, also, a pair of Magnetos per Engine ARE indeed entirely RELIABLE, as a System..., if they are PROPPERLY MAINTAINED. However... The Manetos on this Aeroplane were in Pitfully EXECRABLE Condition, having been maintained by a Lunatic who preferred fitting an unapproved & unauthorised Plumbing Modification, to thus enable the Magnetos to have the Earth-Normal Atmospheric Air inside them replaced with Pure NITROGEN..., rather than his being bothered to correctly Gap the Points, set the Ignition Timing, and then use the correct specified Retaining-Clips on the P-Wires when OVERHAULING the Engines..., because, apparently, he thought his Safety-Wire Macrame Knotwork was so much more convenient..., & why bother with using the correct Part on an Aero-Engine, anyway, eh.? Solid State Ignition was never ever going to help anybody whose accumulated Shortcuts amounted to such a staggering Gap between their apparent reputation as a "Great B-17 Authority" and what they'd actually been (thinking they had been) "getting away with" doing..., for YEARS. Everybody always gets their Just Deserts, their Comeuppance..., but it's a terrible shame that this "Mack" character was not identified and stopped, decades ago...; because he & his Ego made this whole stupid Scenario occurr, he spent literally YEARS getting prepared to have so many silly ideas all catch up with him, at once. And a bunch of TRUSTING people died, while he was busily wrecking a rare & valuable Aeroplane, which he did not even own...! There are LAWS against Pretenders like him, for very good reasons. So, there's no need for Computerised Sparklies, if people would merely Do The MAINTENANCE, Propperly... Such is life, Have a good one... Stay safe. ;-p Ciao !
@@WarblesOnALot I believe that there are some EFI and electronic ignition updates for the smaller radials, but I don't think any are available for the big iron engines at this time. And some of your thoughts are sadly true. I thought the human factors analysis would be interesting, but not in this way.
@@FiveCentsPlease G'day, Thanks mate... Yeah, the thing is that nobody ever designed big Aero Engines, or Military Airframes to be maintained by a bunch of enthusiastic old Volunteers all desperate to either recapture their own Lost Youth (by pottering about extending the effective Lifetime of the Technology which they were taught to operate as Teenagers & Young Adults..., let alone by a bunch of people whose desperation is driven by their trying to better empathise with their Father or Grandfather..., big brother or Uncle perhaps..., who was the one that was taught how it all worked... Keeping any Aeroplane fit to fly is always an expensive excercise.., but when the machine in question is a 4-Engined WW-2 Bomber then anybody who has to ask, "What does that cost...?" is effectively admitting that they can't afford the price of entry to a very small and exclusive Club. "The Fithy Rich"..., who literally employ other people, full time, to help them play with all their Toys without making messes all around the Airfield. Whatever gets Kermit Weeks, in the final finish..., as something most likely inevitably will do, one day - it certainly won't be the result of skimping on the Maintenance - & then cobbling up Rube-Goldberg "Variations" of his own to Nitrogen Gas-phixate his Magnetos (which would otherwise compare unfavourably with those to be found on any old Lawnmower left on a Rubbish Dump to go mouldy)..., into starting up his Engines - despite their state of advanced decrepitude... Probably ever since the 2008/'09 Global Financial Crisis..., the International EcoGnomie (of the Global Vile Age...!) has not been growing sufficiently fast for almost any Busyness to be SO incredibly profitable that it can afford to subsidise Old, Rare, Idiosyncratic, Aeroplanes - for the sheer Spectacle of seeing them fly...; and the days are long gone - when one could make any slightly unusual Aeroplane cover it's own Costs by earning Airshow Appearance Fees, for showing up every Weekend somewhere different, & being paid Charter-Prices for the Ferry-Flights... The retired Harrier Pilot, Andy Hills, who ploughed & cooked a Traffic-Jam on a Motorway at Shoreham, with Somebody-Else's Hawker Hunter was another classic case...; he was illegally too low when commencing his Manouvre - because it was the Last BIG Airshow of the Season, and he wanted to leave a deep impression on everybody watching..., in the hopes of getting booked the following Season...; and he was far too slow for a Hunter at that weight to commence the Manouvre - but all the Speeds WERE Correct for the Hunting Jet Provost (1950s/'60s vintage RAF Jet Trainer) in which he was used to practicing his Displays - because he couldn't afford to fly the Hunter "merely" to practice his routine... It all adds up to the apparently rapidly approaching day when NOBODY has the required "Currency", in both senses of the Word, to enable such venerable old Relics to be operated, at all, any more. Time to sell one's Shares in The Grande Airshow Spectacular Korporation Pty Ltd, perhaps...(!) ? Such is life, Have a good one... Stay safe. ;-p Ciao !
I really believe these old birds should be parked and preserved. They have flown well beyond what they were designed for and unlike the B52, they don't receive full depot maintenance. I wonder if NDI inspections are done? Most likely they are maintained by weekend warrior volunteers, which is mostly scary, minus the few retired Crew Chiefs.
Really tragic. They should have just cancelled the flights for the day. Till they got everything squared away. obviously, there's no do overs in aviation. Outside a simulator.
I've taken 3 of these B-17 living history rides .. The Liberty Bell , The Movie Memphis Belle , & Aluminum Overcast.. They have been some of the greatest fun memories of my life. I love Warbirds and Airshows. Really liked this video because of the advice we are all asked to consider. Well done! Think about it.. Are your vehicles spares tires up to pressure? Do you ever even check it?
I rode in the 909 when I was 10 years old in 1994. The crew took a liking to me and even gave me a few minutes of stick time from the right seat. I’ll never forget the heavy controls. I’m now a 7,500+ hour ex-airline and current corporate pilot and flying in the 909 is one of my most fond memories flying.
The Oregon coast ( north bend) will miss not having these planes anymore. Witchcraft, tondelayo,toulouse nuts & our beloved nine o nine were here 6/2019 . I flew on tondelayo as I missed booking in time to fly on 909. It was a helluva ride to remember. R.i.p . To 909 & the 7 lost souls 😢
Dan - thanks for the vid. In UK we had a crash of Hawker Hunter @ Shoreham air show in '17 (i think) which impacted on an approach road to the airfield and killed 11 people - this led to a review of the qualifications/ experience of pilots doing these displays as well as display safety committees being judged more harshly on their preparations for emergencies. Would be interested in your view of the post-accident report. (a) In respect of the pilot in the B-17 could he have become task saturated/ mission (landing) focused that all other considerations just didn't come into his thought processes? (b) Did the PIC (Ernest) take control and did the right seat defer totally - we will never know i suppose - interesting you talk about CRM and how much this could have helped possibly but thats 20/20 hindsight. Its difficult to judge what the factors were that led to the outcome that could have been avoided/ anticipated and those that were just inevitable consequences of 'a set of actions/ decisions or lack off'.
I flew in the EAA B-17 a little over a year ago. It was fantastic. Our crew gave us a pretty comprehensive preflight briefing on seatbelts and how to open the rear door if necessary. I thought it was a well-run operation and the flight was a once in a lifetime experience.
Crashes almost never just one thing. There was a chain of events that at least began when they had trouble starting the first two engines. There are at least two critical training lessons. One there is no penalty for declaring an emergency. The second is that in an emergency it's not advisable to pass up a perfectly good runway. He probably still had altitude and speed to put down on the cross runway. Might not have been pretty and might have still crashed but he would almost certainly stayed in the bounds of the airport and there isn't much to hit down that way. I know second guessing is easy but those are two mistakes that a common to a lot of crashes. The biggest of all and probably the hardest to overcome is to not realize until it's too late to accept that you are in fact in an emergency. Running up hours and being proclaimed the most qualified in the known universe may in fact have been to his detriment. He undoubtedly thought he could make it until it was too late.
Ray Holden Sir, Also lowering you're gear long b4 landing and yes passing up a good runway. On that I just read it was shutdown? I didn't hear Juan say anything about it being closed? and turning to the dead engine side twice? SO sad.
Always a quality presentation, Dan. Kudos for your comprehensive efforts. Train the way you fly; fly the way you train. Perfection isn’t possible, but in its pursuit, excellence will be realized. CAVU ✈️😎👍
Local branch of CAF posts progress reports on maintenance of their aircraft. We can see how the engines get removed, disassembled, inspected, repaired and reassembled, then reinstalled and tested. More documentation made public makes the likelihood of skipping steps less likely.
It's hard to justify "self policing" in this case, especially since many non-pilots buy tickets to ride along on these flights. They don't necessarily know/understand the risks they're signing up for.
@@charleswheatley3897 You might have, but what about the people on the ground who might get hit by the odd badly maintained, badly piloted old plane? How do you think they or their relatives feel, whilst you enjoy yourself?
Dan, I subscribed after a different video you did, but if I hadn’t then, this would do it. I am a warbird fan, and have been since I was a small child. Back in Florida in the 70’s I met Kermit Weeks and Martin Caiden. I flew in Iron Annie, a SNJ, and a two seat Mustang. Thank for this. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Another excellent video and presentation of the facts. Sadly, the NTSB Report goes into detail about the poor condition of the mags and spark plugs of the airplane and the lack of maintenance oversight that was - to some extent - the result of making the late Mac McCauley the Director of Maintenance for 909. The whole concept of oversight is dependent on having a second set of eyes looking over maintenance - and training, for that matter. The profound lack of an egress briefing is something that I just can't get over. Every person who has ever ridden in any of my antique airplanes absolutely knows how to use the door and get in and out of the airplane. I had the privilege to meet Mac a couple times and thought he was a great guy, but I'm curious what kind of actual TRAINING he AND HIS FO did in the airplane and how much they worked on procedures. In reading the report, I come away with the impression that actual training with some hard nosed instructor demanding procedural compliance and precision flying was distinctly absent. Like you, I'd love to see the Living History Flying Experience (LHFE) program continue. Unfortunately, Collings Foundation didn't take any of the fundamentals in terms of training or maintenance - especially in a rare and complex airplane used for revenue flights with the general public aboard - seriously enough to avoid this tragedy. How many times do these operators expect the FAA to "give them another chance"? Given the magnitude of this tragedy, I think the real death knell of LHFE is going to be insurance. The cost of insuring these airplanes has skyrocketed as a result of this accident; unaffordable insurance and high overall operating costs are going to drive most of these operators out of business.
My adult son and I flew on 909 about 5 months before the crash. Being the recent owner of a 1947 Piper Cub, and an aircraft structures design engineer, having to consistently blow out the magnetos to get the engines started is setting off red flags. If the engines are not reliable to start without playing with the magnetos, they shouldn’t be taking paid passengers flying, or even flying the plane anyway.
In the interview with the surviving crew member, it was asked if the engines were covered or anything and it was “no” they were just left out on the ramp. I’m sure about “constantly “ blowing out mags- the flight engineer testified that it was actually his first time.
Both mags were bad, 1 and a direct short in it! The have shown both of them and the spark plugs. It never should have taxied! cheers!
...and a lack of maintenance...stby for an update. Jb.
soon I hope
Oh no...I am standing by for your analysis Juan.
Me too. There were some reports shortly after the crash that the flight was running late and that there was some haste to get airborne.
I used to have on old 1SG that always said that if you start out right you end up right. Seems to be good advice.
And it also appears that as usual, there were multiple factors that contributed to this accident. If a few things had been different....
Yeah, this whole situation was a sh!tshow from start to finish. I read through most of that docket late into the night a few days back. The survivor stories were chilling. Hope the Collings Foundation gets their maintenance in order, or else we'll never see these birds fly again.
Having been involved in maintenance for all of my military career { MO } I can promise this would not have flown...and having seen many times when it had to fly { Vietnam and Gulf War} there are ways to make sure its right and flyable which did not seem to happen.
I'm amazed that we haven't seen more footage of the approach and impact with all of the security cameras located at airports.
Yeah, and the fact that everyone whips out their phone when she takes off.
Thank you Dan for taking time to sift through the mountain of paperwork in this accident to bring us knowledge. I pray that as details emerge from the findings on the final release of the NTSB's final report, we as pilots can have takeaways that make complete sense. It sometimes seems like we live in a world of shortcuts and often times those bite us in the tail feathers!! We as pilots need to take the time to complete all tasks at hand and if something seems wrong, take the time to stop and figure it out!! Great job on this video Dan!!
THanks good input.
I appreciate this docket summary of the crash. My Mom and I flew on this plane at Bradley Airport, two days prior to the crash. The crash really shook me to my core.
Wow. I bet it did shake you.
Wow!
I remember the safety briefing I was given before flying Crazy Horse (A TF-51D Mustang) by Lee Lauderback. We wore Parachutes and he said in case of trouble, he would open the canopy, then I was to climb on the wing and roll off. If the plane was on fire he would pop the canopy roll over then I would release the seat harness and I would drop out of the plane. He emphasized in both cases to remember to pull the rip cord!
It was surreal when I heard the news of this plane crashing. Just like you, I saw the B17 earlier that year. I also was fortunate enough to take a flight on the B24 Liberator “Witchcraft”. One of the most memorable moments of my life. RIP to the pilot, crew, and passengers.
Exact same story for me. They must have stood on the brakes for 5 minutes when they ran up the engines on my Witchcraft ride. Got me a bit worried, but luckily all 4 engines seemed to run OK that day. Makes me wonder now what those spark plugs look like....
Great information on whathappend.I flew on 909 years ago and got to work on the tail section of the B-24 while it was still in pieces in Stow Mass.My son and I where on 909 while it was in Nashua N.H. a couple of days before the tragedy, and I said to my son"boy she's looking old,could use a paint job". Little did I know that a couple of days later she would be gone taking those poor people with her.I love those old warbirds and hope that they continue to be part of living history and inspire young people to love aviation like I did as a young boy.
The 9-0-9 visited St. Paul, Mn along with its companion B-24 and B-25 back in August 2007. The whole situation is difficult for me to grasp.
I had the privilege of flying on that very B-17, and the B-24, on two different occasions when they came through Denton. I have a lot of good video and photos from both flights. As a member of the airport staff, I would work closely with the pilots and crew during their visits, and I spoke directly with Mack on a couple of occasions. It was a real shock to hear about this crash when it happened, and I was heartbroken when I found out about those who died.
How do you feel about the shoddy maintenance that Mack was responsible for? Sounds like another case of the normalization of deviation. The same root cause that brought down two multimillion dollar space shuttles.
I have zero information about that, thus I have no opinion.
It was a tragedy, and I feel terrible for the loss of life as well as the loss of the airplane. I am not out to blame anyone.
Peace, and good health to you.
I walked through that B-17 in 1992 as a 12 yr old kid. Through the years it often visited our home airport with the B-24 and the other Collings foundation aircraft. A couple years ago I had the amazing opportunity to fly in the 909 during one of their visits. It was a childhood dream come true and something I will never forget. I will miss hearing the dull roar of those big radial engines as it flew overhead and we high tailed it to the airport to go see them come in. It was very sad to hear of this tragic accident and my heart goes out to all the friends & family who were affected by it.
Nice video Dan. B-17's and F4U's are also my favorites. While safety is the most important part of flying, it's also impoertant to keep these historical aircraft safe so we can preserve our history.
How many are still flyable? I hope the nine-o-nine wasn't the only one.
just about once every year In CT i would see that b17 an b24 flying low. Would give me chills. I always knew it was them from the sound of the engines, very distinct. Very sad to think I wont be seeing it anymore...
as a kid I went to the Tweed airshow and both the b17 and b24 were there. It was the last day and when they left they did a few low level fly byes..i think the wing tips were 5 ft off the ground...ill never forget that...
This B17 visited Helena where my WW2 veteran Dad got to see all 4. His Dad, my Grandfather, helped build that B24. Dad did P47s but had flown on P40s, B17s, B26s before the P47. He departed this year. But thanks to the Collings foundation for bringing these planes here and helping Dad revive memories of his youth.
I flew on this B17 in 1990 in manchester nh and we were flying over the city to get excitement for an air show and the P51 "ain't missbehaving " flew in close formation that is one of the greatest memories I have! thanks for this video it does answer many questions I had ,as a pilot I have a cessna140 a little smaller but still a tail dragger . I'm so sad about this great loss
Hay Grim remember you and I putting up all that crowd control fence and how hard we work those were the good old days.I was on that flight with ya I have a great picture of that P-51 on the right waste window
@@johnnicatra570 this is amazing to hear from you we have to figure out to get in touch
@@grimdrown7293 sure thing when this damn virus is over or we get the shots .You still at the Harley place or are you retired.I am Merry Christmas man.
@@johnnicatra570 john my it guy says I can give you my email it's grimr@comcast.net so we can talk looking foward to it Grim
Great video. I live 4mi from Bradley and a friend of mine was unfortunate to have his father on that plane. He said he’s sad that his father is gone but knows how much that experience meant to him. It was something he’d always wanted to do.
This is very sad to see and a little scary. When the 909 came to Indiana a few years ago my wife and I had the thrill of flying in it. Of course Mac was our pilot and it was a pleasure to watch him before I went up front for a breathtaking ride. I am very sorry to see what happened, but I am so glad we got to have the experience.
Sad! I paid $550 and flew on this 7:18 9-0-9 plane in Mountain View, California. I flew on May 19th, 2019. We flew around at about 3000 feet and it was very noisy. I got terrible air sick 1/2 way through the 40 minute flight time. I got loads of great video… walk around and over the bomb bay, even got into the front area under the pilots. Wires all over the place but plane purred fine. Saw no safety violation, no oil, no popping. The fumes got me sick… 5 passengers. Plane was smooth and no chop. Took me 1 hour after I landed to recover.
After we landed, I tossed a 1942 50 cent piece to the young pilot saying “thanks for getting me back in the ground. MAT WAS NOT FLYING… guy looked 35 ish. I will miss hearing the B-17 and B-24 flying over the SF Bay Area.
Decades ago I was visiting my parents in Western Pennsylvania when I heard the roar of a large propeller driven aircraft. My dad, a WWII veteran immediately recognized the sound of a B-17. I ran outside to get just a glimpse of it, looking like it was going to land.
We piled in the car and headed to the local airport where Sentimental Journey had just landed, along with an He-111 and if I recall, a P-47.
What a thrill to actually board those historic aircraft as it brought them to life for me, and back to life for my pop. Gotta keep em flying!
Good points about training and safety. Break the kill chain.
My son and I toured the 9 oh 9 in Redding Ca...so sad.
Years ago I was a part of a television documentary looking at warbirds and the men and women who flew them and keep them flying, and in the course of it I got some flights in a few, which was a dream come true and fantastic experiences.
It's chilling in retrospect because a B-26 I got a ride in crashed with passengers a few years after and the day after I flew in it, I watched it abort a takeoff due to a prop governor issue. I knew historically the B-26 could be deadly to inexperienced pilots but I had no reason not to trust the pilots' abilities - I didn't hesitate to take that ride.
There was a pre-flight briefing with the usual cautions to be belted in for takeoff and landing as well as pointing out exposed control systems and the like to avoid. No explanation for how to exit in an emergency and once in flight I had the run of the aircraft.
I came across a comment to the NTSB report on the B-26 crash from a man who identified himself as a former WWII B-26 pilot instructor and he was critical of how the pilots flew the aircraft on landing. He described the dangers on how they made their landing approach and how it was an accident waiting to happen. And reading that I remembered his description matched how they made their landing approach when I had my flight. It was a long, high powered approach, the flaps and gear were down, and it was a long straight approach at about 250', left hand seat had the yoke, right hand seat had the throttles.
The NTSB determined they were low and slow with full flaps, gear down, and a lot of power when they lost an engine on their landing approach. Five people died, including two passengers. Could it have been avoided? I think so. Could this deadly tragedy with this B17 be avoided. I think so. There is no silver bullet except to not fly these aircraft, and that would also be tragic. Short of that, and I don't know how you make it happen across the board, these antique aircraft have to be operated with a keen sense of if there is any problem - particularly with engines/power, you don't fly. And unless it's a ferry flight, all flights with passengers remain in airspace and at altitude sufficient to make a runway. Beyond that, at very least simulator training for engine out situations.
Another major problem was that Mac was not just the pilot but also head of mechanic which is in my book a serious conflict of interest. A mechanic is worried about safety and wont let a plane fly until it is deemed safe. But a pilot wants to fly, end of story. My brother in law Robert Riddell died on this flight leaving my sister a widow, his two kids fatherless and his grandson without a grandfather. And also left behind shattered dreams and a big hole in our hearts. These planes are indeed part of our history but they were never meant for joyriding. They should viewed on the ground and let the pilots and crew chiefs take the risk in the air.
Sorry for your loss. Very tragic. Thanks for sharing.
Hey Dan ! Thanks for the update... Went out to the airport and saw a crumpled up piece of metal , it used to be a 172 ( the same one that I had 1.5 hrs of duel in the night before ) . Your right about that being an eerie feeling! Unfortunately somebody's head will roll , I've rarely heard of an investigation where blame wasn't placed with someone. Seems to me that the majority of the time that ' someone ' usually isn't around to explain and\or defend themselves! May God bless the deceased and their loved ones!
My favorite WWll plane is the P-51 but I love Corsairs and Wildcats too, I have been very fortunate to fly in a B-17 and several other fantastic airplanes with the Confederate Airforce, an awesome bunch of old timers and great pilots to be sure. My friend restored a T-6 Trainer that recently went to OshGosh Wisconsin Airshow and that plane took away every single first prize for that particular aircraft. He is a great aircraft restorer, used to restore old cars, in fact when he was just 11 years old he restored his first Model A. I purchased a T-28 and restored it, This B-17 crash brought many thoughts and feelings to the surface for me, these aircrafts are so rare and such an important part of American history , I have a other friend who mapped out a few aircrafts such as P-51's etc. he creates these aircraft from the patterns he has made and this, to me, was an ingenious idea. Just thinking aloud. Anyway this crash was such a sad week for me. I was just watching some old footage of the Memphis Belle, a truly amazing plane and crew, very few of these managed to make it thru its many flying missions and back home safely most crews knew that the plane they were flying over enemy territory had a liklihood of not making it back home, this one managed to do just this. The flying tigers ( P-51's ) sed to fly out with them and gradually leave them to continue their bombing mission on their own. I know that the famous German Stuka aircraft thatusedto terrorize England during the German air raids with its frightening sirens which would go off as the pilots practically nose dived straight down towards the English townships these aircraft had the ability to level themselves out even if the G Forces knocked the pilots out, G-Forces are crazy, I believe that today there are only 3 German Stukas left in the world one of them sits in the Smithsonian in Washington D.C. Yes this crash was a devistating and unfortunate crash that shouldn't have occurred. We never know when things are going to go wrong, My friend experienced trouble with the FASA after a charter plane he worked on crashed due to pilot error, ( no License! ) the FAA hammered him so badly that one day while walking and talking idly he mentioned that he was planning on making violins instead of working on aircraft, doesnt even play the violin, but shit howdy the man started making violins, go figure, wins 1st place in OshKosh and the FAA hassle him to the extent that he hangs up his airframe and powerplant license in favor of rare wood and a few carving woodworking tools. thanks for letting me speak sorry for the book.
Thank you Dan, an excellent review. I agree we can’t let this stop the “warbirds” for flying and being shown.
That's a damn shame. I had a very different experience with the Commemorative Air Force. I bought a ticket for a flight in the B-24 Liberator (Diamond Lil). There was a delay because Engine #2 needed an oil change. Idk if they taught us how to open the door. A couple of them were back there for the tour anyway. Otherwise, I recall them briefing us on absolutely everything. Engines started normally, and we all had a great time. 10/10 would recommend.
Great thoughtful analysis, thanks!
What an excellent video from start to finish. Thanks Dan, answers a lot of things.
Thank you for sharing this report with us, and thank you for a very thought provoking conclusion.
Thank you Dan great report and review we always trained when I was in the military being a mechanic, crew chief and flight engineer on the CH47 Chinook helicopter for 9 years I was meticulous on everything I did because I knew I was responsible for all the lives on board so I am strong on safety.
God 🙏 bless you all and Merry Christmas.
Charles, thank you for your service to your country.
I was blessed to get a ride on both the Collings Foundation B-17 and B-24 and they were both pinnacle experiences in my life. I was also very much aware that I could die in one, should there be an issue. It was a risk I was willing to accept and would do so today too. It is tragic what happened to the 9-oh-9 and I do believe safety and training should be upgraded but I agree that it will be a tremendous loss if these flights around the nation and these living history experiences are no more.
I live 6NM SW of KBDL, and I recall seeing one of the other planes flying south a week later at around 1500 feet. It was a surreal sight. When I got home, I checked the liveatc recording. I'm not going to lie, I burst into tears hearing the tribute. Thanks for doing this video (along with Blancolirio)!
I was on that plane for a flight 2 weeks to the day before that tragic flight. The crew did instruct us the proper use of the seatbelts. I was the last one on the plane the last flight of the day 2 weeks before and as I got in, I watched on how to close/open the rear starboard hatch. I thought "I can open that in case anything happens".
Seamos Ylonth Thank God you're alive!
I had a ride on their B-24 “Witchcraft” 4 months before 909’s tragic end. I was glad to be in the back near the open air waist gunner positions: it was especially fantastic looking out there and holding my hand in the slipstream. But I also thought it would be quite handy to get out of there fast through those waist positions on the ground if necessary.
From what I'm hearing, there was no FAA oversight. You are right, we don't need more regulations. We need enforcement of the regulations we have on the books.
Thank You Sir. Words to keep up front and live by.
Thanks Dan. Well said - with compassion and sincerity
Thanks for the update.
I had the honor of flying on Aluminum Overcast operated by Oshkosh EAA about 10 years ago. My father (Ret. AF) later flew on 9-0-9. Memories we'll never forget. I don't remember any safety briefing, which luckily we didn't end up needing. This is an excellent video, but wrongfully harps on "heavy burdens of bureaucracy". We know that corporations (and to a large extent, people) can't be trusted to entirely police themselves. Shortcuts or blatantly dangerous actions will be taken, yes sometimes even if there's the risk of a financial penalty but having procedures and regulations in place at least provides a framework for safer operation. The families of those that perished on 9-0-9 surely don't feel like a few more rules for operating these glorious, potentially deadly machines should be considered overly burdensome.
Well done, Dan. And excellent points about situational awareness in EVERYTHING you do today. It's not the same world we left behind in the 20th Century ...
My dad and I stood under the wing of Nine-O-Nine just 10 days prior to this crash, chatting with the mechanic as he worked on #3. Wasn't a big deal, since there's always some fiddling required from time to time on these old birds. That same day, the P-51 Mustang was backfiring up a storm as she taxied - made one lap around and came right back. Was just the pilot with no passengers, presumably working a bug out of the ignition. Amazing how quickly things can happen. I wish I had spent the $450 for the ride on the B-17 that day. Never in a million years did I think that would be the last time I'd ever be standing near her, or the pilots.
Wow, that’s amazing.
I flew on 909 in August 2017. It was a memorable flight. I don't recall any safety briefing. And we returned with no problems. Things go wrong at times and life goes on.
Well done. Well said. Keep em flying... Safely.
So sad to see. Flew as a passenger on this plane, dream come true. To see it crash was horrible. Wish it never happened. Always double check your conditions when flying. Condolences 🙏
I fly airlines here in Europe and own a T6 Texan in Switzerland. Everything you said, your analysis is absolutely correct. Nothing replace training and SOP’s. We all need to learn from their mistakes and get safer. No one can blame that crew, we weren’t on board of that plane, we just need to learn to get better.
Tragic!!
I went up in the "909" in Feb. 2019. I almost cried when I get the news. On my flight, as on all flights, they let you walk about the plane once it got airborne. It's a bit surreal knowing that I stood behind capt. "Mac" on that flight,........and now he's gone.
One of the things the poster overlooks in his anti-regulatory zeal is the lack of FAA oversight that was a component of this disaster.
I am good friends with a man who is 102 yrs. of age --he drives every day to the facility where I work to visit his wife. He is a WW2 veteran who flew P-47's during his career; I do remember him mentioning DC-3's as well when we got lunch last month. He was recently admitted into the Quiet Birdman organization...I help him out when I see him; usually I park his Buick. I love this guy, and that's the least I can do. This is in West Hartford, CT. So we are very familiar Bradley Field (my grandfather worked the tower there, supposedly he had met the pilot who the airport is named after --Lt. Eugene Bradley, who crashed his P-40 there on Aug.21, 1941). I would love for someone like yourself to interview him while he's still around, as his 101 year old brother just passed recently. He will turn 103 in April.
Gosh, would love to interview him.
Sounded like a "perfect storm" of mistakes, maintenance, training, narcissism.....
Flew on 909 with a WWII B-17 ETO Pilot. We became friends and often talked until he passed away.
I flew on this very B-17 at Salem, OR in June 2019. I'd been thinking about a flight like this for years since my father was a B-17 pilot in WWII with 381st Bomb Group Heavy. He flew 28 missions. I don't remember a safety briefing, but that was a year and a half ago and I was focused on the overall experience. I wish I'd arranged for a B-17 flight with my father when he was alive. We both attended the 50th Anniversary of the B-17's development at Boeing Field in 1985. My flight last June was a reminder and tribute. I wore my father's bomber jacket.
What a great story! Thanks for sharing John.
It was a 75 yo boomer whose arrogance killed 6 people along with himself
From Hackaday
*Poor Maintenance Could Have Led To Fatal B-17 Crash | Hackaday*
hackaday.com/2020/03/28/poor-maintenance-could-have-led-to-fatal-b-17-crash/
It’s always difficult to dive in and comment on a tragic case like this, but I feel my experience has some relevance because the FAA’s findings accord with some of that. I flew as a passenger in both the Collings Foundation B-17 and B-24 on consecutive years. I took a pilot’s licence some time ago and I maintain all my own vehicles. I greatly enjoyed the two flights I took but I had some concerns.
At the time it was clear to me just how much physical exertion controlling the B-17 caused the now-deceased lead pilot Ernest McCauley. He was in his early sixties at the time but it was obviously considerable effort and he was only flying round on a simple joy-ride. At the time of the fatal crash he was 75 and he was attempting to control a large, heavy and malfunctioning machine at low altitude.
His co-pilot was 71. Regardless of any other culpability on his part or that of the Collings Foundation it strikes me that a pilot of such advanced age is not really who you want at the controls in a crisis situation. The pilots who flew these bombers in WW2 were 50 years younger, far fitter and often experienced at landing B-17s with one or more engines down.
As for the passengers, although we were strapped down for take-off we were told we could release the straps almost the moment we rotated and left the ground. On my flights the passengers were all moving about the aircraft immediately. I do not know whether on the fatal flight they had been told to strap themselves back in. I do not recall that anything beyond the most cursory pre-flight checks were made, including a magneto test.
Much has been made of Ernest McCauley’s 7,000 hours experience but none of that surely involved trying to execute emergency landings with only two engines working properly. In short, I’m not sure how useful his experience would have been in this exceptionally hazardous situation.
With only the two port engines working properly the aircraft would inevitably have yawed to starboard as it came in, requiring the pilots to try and counteract that extreme force (the B-17 is pulled that way as a matter of course because of prop rotation - just watch the take-off sequence in the Memphis Belle movie) while landing.
The fact that there had already been engine trouble that day ought to have meant he should have used his experience to decide not to take off, and certainly not to take off with passengers before he had ascertained everything was working properly.
He’d always gotten away with it before. Why should this time be any different?
Excellent documentary - I especially appreciate this updated version. March 22, 2003 (Birmingham, AL) was the only opportunity I had to fly on this historical aircraft. So sad and tragic are the events that led to the loss of human life and an irreplaceable fixture of history now gone forever. As you so appropriately pointed out, just a few changes in decisions made on this day could have possibly resulted in so many different outcomes - most importantly no loss of life. BTW, Steve Rabbs was my pilot and Mac was the co-pilot.
An interesting video with footage I hadn't seen. What you don't mention is that Ernest 'Mac' McCauley was a one-man maintenance crew for the 909 and either he wasn't very good at it or wasn't up the job, given the mis-gapped plugs on the failing engines and the botch wire to one of the mags which was why nos. 3 and 4 were misfiring. That aircraft should never have taken off and he ought to have known not to to have tried. I flew on the 909 in Illinois in 2007 and the casual approach to prepping passengers was well established back then. I could see the enormous physical load on two elderly pilots (one of whom was Mac) trying to heave on the controls, an experience matched a year later on the B-24. On 23 July 2009 I caught up with the outfit once more - I won't forget them trying to fix the B-17's tail wheel tire with a tire repair patch kit like they were fixing a bicycle. I didn't realize then that I was looking at a way of working that would lead to the 2019 disaster, but I was shocked. They weren't equipped with a spare inner tube (which they should have been) and under no circumstances should they have attempted a repair like that on an aircraft tire. I have a picture of Mac kneeling on the ground trying to fix the hole in the old tube. Presumably they didn't want to disappoint passengers and nor did they want to hand back the money - just like in 2019. My flights on the B-17 and B-24 were two of the greatest experiences of my life for which I am grateful but what I saw in with the tire repair job in 2009 told me I'd never fly in an old warbird again.
it hurts every time i see pics of 909.
Incredible skills to talk about a sad event without adding unnecessary information. Well done!
Such a huge tragedy. Prayers for the deceased and for the injured. A very sad day as I have been in that plane many times as I live in New Smyrna Beach and you could always find the 909 getting maintained during the winter.
Such a sad story, thanks for bringing it to us Dan.
Remember it very well. I was at school, 20 minutes away. Got home, and my mom told me there was a plane crash
Outstanding episode! Well said!
And to your ending I preach situational awareness everywhere I go. And to people all the time.
It’s something not talked about much. And out of all the comments on this video, you’re the first to mention it.
@@TakingOff Guess it is in my brain from my time in the 1980's. Some things you never forget. I am always looking around when I am out. Even watching mirrors and other people in vehicles. Training does stay with you...
Good presentation, Dan. Thank you!
Unqualified crew flying a national treasure.
Might as well have set it to fire on the ground instead of crashing it and killing passengers.
the crew had more hours on this bird than the WWII aircrews had
Wrong…this pilot had more hours on the B-17 than any person EVER. Yes I had flow with him over 20 years so many times. An accident is just that..
Nicely done. Those of us who ride like to hear that those of you who drive think in this manner. Thank you.
I've wanted to fly on the B17 as long as I can remember.
My mother built these planes during the war. I hope they don't ban them from flying.
How many commercial flights have crashed? How many have died?
Yet they still get to fly.
At 5 seconds into the video you say "#4 engine almost immediately starts backfiring". No, it didn't. #4 engine was running just fine. Then you say "The engine next to it stops". Correct. This is the #3 engine. This was the engine that was backfiring, NOT #4. It tore itself apart, throwing large pieces of the engine, including cylinders and pistons, in all directions. The pilot didn't notice that the #3 engine had blown up (why the hell not?). He assumed it was #4 without checking or asking, as required. This resulted in 7 people dying. You say "You can't maintain altitude on 2 engines". Correct. What do you do? Well, you could restart #4 and fly normally, but Mac had no clue that engine #4 was perfectly fine. Why not? Because he was 75 years old and confused. You are less than pattern altitude and descending. Do you land on the runway almost underneath you? You & I would, but the pilot that had more time in B-17s than any other person on planet earth decided to continue away from the runway and fly a mile further, then make a 180 degree turn to line up with another runway on 2 engines, all the while losing altitude. Why? He wasn't stupid, but he WAS 75 years old and very forgetful. He forgot a LOT of things on this flight. His forgetfulness cost 7 people their lives. This forgetfulness had been apparent for some time, but, "He was the highest time pilot on the B-17 in the world" so his forgetfulness was forgiven again and again, and again. Mac was glorified by pilots around the country, even after the crash. This glorification, in my opinion, led to the deaths of 7 innocent people. Mac was either incompetent at flying the B-17, which I don't believe, or he had so much experience he was convinced he was infallible to mistakes in judgement. No one is.
Very well done video. I completely agree and I hope CAF and Collings foundation learn from thier mistakes.
My son and I flew on 909 twice in 2014. Never thought about it but no, there were no safety briefings. Frankly, we didn't think about it then either. We were having too good a time to notice such things. That said, the crew and flights were amazing and, obviously, successful. I sincerely hope things get sorted out and they can continue offering flights to the public.
I have flown on Collings aircraft a number of times over the years, with multiple flights in Nine-O-Nine, one flight in their B-24 "Witchcraft", and other planes as well. I have also flown as passenger on historic aircraft operated by the Commemorative Air Force and the EAA. I never was on a flight with any of them that did NOT include a safety briefing for the passengers. Sometimes the briefing was by the pilot in command, other times it was by the flight engineer or loadmaster.
I have seen many instances where some passengers were not paying attention to the briefing, or were fooling with their camera, , etc.
On every Nine-O-Nine flight I was on, the briefing included the two most likely emergency egress portals (for waist position passengers), including the rear side hatch. We were cautioned that it was a "kick out" door, and that it might fall out if we were to put our weight on it, so STAY AWAY from it in flight, but definitely give it a push or kick in case of emergency on the ground. We were cautioned every time about taking care when walking through the bomb bay, not hanging into control cables, and many other things.
I did notice that the safety briefings did not seem to follow a script, and the person giving the briefing was not holding a checklist of things to say. The style of the briefing also seemed to depend on who was giving it. Some were matter of fact, some had a bit of levity, which I think helps keep the passengers engaged in the briefing (flight attendants on commercial aircraft often do likewise these days).
I DID think every time that it would have been better to give the briefing, or parts of it anyway, further way from other operating aircraft, because sometimes part of the briefing might be drowned out by the noise of other aircraft in operation nearby. Personally, I always hung on every word, and if I did not hear something clearly, I would speak up and ask for it to be repeated. I am sure that some percentage of passengers are predisposed to tune out such briefings. I can't say whether testimonies in this case saying that there was no safety briefing reflect the truth of there being no briefing, or perhaps just reflect that many people just....don't....listen.
The post-crash analysis of the magnetos on 3 and 4 indicates that probably both engines would have stopped, let alone exceeded the allowed rpm drop, during the run-up checks if they had been carried out. So a prima facie mechanical issue was in fact a multi-level human factors problem, all the way up to government oversight.
Excellent presentation.
Bravo! That was a good briefing. Could you provide the link for the NTSB report? Thank you.
JUst go to there website, Cheers!
In the 1980s 909 crashed at BVI in Pennsylvania. In 1989 - 1990 I was doing flight training at BVI, Stensin Aviation, and 909 was scattered all about, on the ramp, in the nearby hangars, as VERY DEVOTED men worked tirelessly in all sorts of weather just to get 909 in ferriable condition. It seems they worked on it for YEARS.
Yep, then Rob Collings picked her up and never thanked any of the volunteers that got her back in the air.
Because a pilot has the most flying hours in a particular aircraft does not mean that he is the most qualified in that aircraft. I will not comment on several mistakes in judgement made on this particular flight.
Sshhh! What do you really want to make HR actually earn their checks? Blind numerical experience requirements, as a basis for selecting people for a job, is clearly the superior method.
I would add that I'm now 67 years old and I'm not as sharp as I used to be. B-17's being flown in WWII were being flown by young kids in their 20's not by guys in their mid-70's. Even at only 67 I'm already starting to wonder how much longer I will be able to safely drive a car. I did aviation maintenance in the Air Force during my 20's and 30's and frankly at my age I don't think I'd be a good choice to perform maintenance on an aircraft let alone to fly one with passengers aboard.
@@joevignolor4u949 Hell I went back to college around 40 and found I was not nearly as quick on the uptake as I was at 20, though i made up for it with better study habits. As they say, youth is wasted on the young.
@@joevignolor4u949 That's a great honest statement,,,, And he was the only pilot on board who could fly it! The copilot was not type rated on it!!!!
@@seizetheday8298 Well sorry you don't like my name! and to judge someone by there name I would think is well below you sir! I would never question Mike in his commercial flying ability! He was a very good pilot. I did check him out! However As I understand it the pilot flying the B-17 did his own check ride for him. So you feel he was 100% capable to fly the B-17 on his own? sadly there were some terrible mistakes made,,,,, A good second should have picked them up and help correct the problems, I do think they did the best they could. I just do not feel, he or the pilot made the right calls,,,, they never should have taxied much got air born.,,,,,,,,, will wait for NTSB final report. It;s a terrible loss and never should have happened ! you know that much. And remember I spent many years working on these ole war birds for the confederate Air force when I was in Texas. I understand very well about the engines/mags and so on! As I said it never should have flown that terrible day! BTW ty for you're service!
Gather ye rosebuds while ye may.... Give the "Load master " a complimentary Polygraph Exam.
THe machine will run out of ink!
Having been a passenger in the 909 approximately two weeks before it crashed, I read the actual NTSB report with great interest. I was shocked and angered by what it reported. There was no real independent oversight of the plane’s maintenance or safety program. As I recall, spark plugs were worn and improperly gapped, and leads to at least two of the magnetos were jury rigged, which allowed for arcing and engine failure. These mechanical shortcomings indicate an unacceptable level of complacency and risk-taking. In addition, the accident pilot was not only the chief mechanic but also the Director of maintenance, clearly an extremely lax and flawed safety management system. The Collings foundation deserved to have its permits rescinded. I think this video report under states the irresponsibility that the Collings foundation demonstrated, as well as some unconscionable mechanical work done on the plane. The lives lost are truly a tragedy, and the loss of that beautiful plane is sad, too.
I think I was aboard this B-17 twice on the ground, In Monterey Ca., also most recently in Marathon, fl. a couple of years ago...Trying to remember, the same paint job...
I also saw this old bird in person. It flew right over my home a few months before the crash.
I don't know, but I think, if I lost even one engine on TO, I would have immediately declared EMERGENCY! and headed for the first available runway. I'm not licensed, but I'm pretty sure those would be my first thoughts.
My dad flew the B-24, once to a safe landing, a hundred miles distant with 2 out on same side. April 8th, 1944, 100 ME109s head -on single pass. His bird was #4 in the lead box of the entire 8th AF, Friedrickshaven. I even have the bomb load data, and a few parts of one his planes. One died, tailgunner. He would have made it if he had the ripcord in his hand when they shoved him out. He was stunned by a shell burst 20mm in the tail. I heard the story from my dad's radioman. He never spoke of it, likely feeling responsible. But who would feel confident landing in this condition? It was the only time in 33 missions he ever flew a named plane: Judy's Buggy. I still have a plate that says R-Bar. We had, once, 50 cal. shells, but as kids took the bullets off and lit the powder on fire with sparklers.
Wow, thanks for sharing.
I have my own hunches and opinions of what probably happened, but one thing strikes me after seeing the mags taken from these 2 engines...WHY is there not some type of electronic ignition upgrade/conversion for these engines to replace the fiddly old points and condenser?..seems like it could be done, and would not even be visible as far as originality was concerned..hotter, more reliable spark, and you would still have 2 in case one failed..I mean, there are conversions like this for old cars, old tractors, and even old lawnmower engines..so why not for old aircraft engines?....
G'day,
To retrofit a Wright Cyclone with your modern Solid State Brainfart of an Ignition System would require the Engine Manufacturer to approve the Changes to the Type Certificate.
And the Curtiss Wright Company isn't a Business Entity any more, while the Corporation which bought out the Company which bought out Curtiss Wright is not now remotely interested in wasting any Shareholders' money on making a few remaining WW-2 Museum-Pieces a little bit more reliable, possibly, perhaps, if the Chip doesn't fry itself...
AND, meanwhile, ALL of the people who are interested in paying to see, and fly inside, rare old Aeroplanes - are only paying for the AUTHENTICITY, and the Risk which they take isactually an integral part of the Thrill into which they buy.
Nobody pays to see, or ride in, a fake Plastic Replica..
And, also, a pair of Magnetos per Engine ARE indeed entirely RELIABLE, as a System..., if they are PROPPERLY MAINTAINED.
However...
The Manetos on this Aeroplane were in Pitfully EXECRABLE Condition, having been maintained by a Lunatic who preferred fitting an unapproved & unauthorised Plumbing Modification, to thus enable the Magnetos to have the Earth-Normal Atmospheric Air inside them replaced with Pure NITROGEN..., rather than his being bothered to correctly Gap the Points, set the Ignition Timing, and then use the correct specified Retaining-Clips on the P-Wires when OVERHAULING the Engines..., because, apparently, he thought his Safety-Wire Macrame Knotwork was so much more convenient..., & why bother with using the correct Part on an Aero-Engine, anyway, eh.?
Solid State Ignition was never ever going to help anybody whose accumulated Shortcuts amounted to such a staggering Gap between their apparent reputation as a "Great B-17 Authority" and what they'd actually been (thinking they had been) "getting away with" doing..., for YEARS.
Everybody always gets their Just Deserts, their Comeuppance..., but it's a terrible shame that this "Mack" character was not identified and stopped, decades ago...; because he & his Ego made this whole stupid Scenario occurr, he spent literally YEARS getting prepared to have so many silly ideas all catch up with him, at once.
And a bunch of TRUSTING people died, while he was busily wrecking a rare & valuable Aeroplane, which he did not even own...!
There are LAWS against Pretenders like him, for very good reasons.
So, there's no need for Computerised Sparklies, if people would merely Do The MAINTENANCE, Propperly...
Such is life,
Have a good one...
Stay safe.
;-p
Ciao !
@@WarblesOnALot I believe that there are some EFI and electronic ignition updates for the smaller radials, but I don't think any are available for the big iron engines at this time. And some of your thoughts are sadly true. I thought the human factors analysis would be interesting, but not in this way.
@@FiveCentsPlease
G'day,
Thanks mate...
Yeah, the thing is that nobody ever designed big Aero Engines, or Military Airframes to be maintained by a bunch of enthusiastic old Volunteers all desperate to either recapture their own Lost Youth (by pottering about extending the effective Lifetime of the Technology which they were taught to operate as Teenagers & Young Adults..., let alone by a bunch of people whose desperation is driven by their trying to better empathise with their Father or Grandfather..., big brother or Uncle perhaps..., who was the one that was taught how it all worked...
Keeping any Aeroplane fit to fly is always an expensive excercise.., but when the machine in question is a 4-Engined WW-2 Bomber then anybody who has to ask,
"What does that cost...?"
is effectively admitting that they can't afford the price of entry to a very small and exclusive Club.
"The Fithy Rich"..., who literally employ other people, full time, to help them play with all their Toys without making messes all around the Airfield.
Whatever gets Kermit Weeks, in the final finish..., as something most likely inevitably will do, one day - it certainly won't be the result of skimping on the Maintenance - & then cobbling up Rube-Goldberg "Variations" of his own to Nitrogen Gas-phixate his Magnetos (which would otherwise compare unfavourably with those to be found on any old Lawnmower left on a Rubbish Dump to go mouldy)..., into starting up his Engines - despite their state of advanced decrepitude...
Probably ever since the 2008/'09 Global Financial Crisis..., the International EcoGnomie (of the Global Vile Age...!) has not been growing sufficiently fast for almost any Busyness to be SO incredibly profitable that it can afford to subsidise Old, Rare, Idiosyncratic, Aeroplanes - for the sheer Spectacle of seeing them fly...; and the days are long gone - when one could make any slightly unusual Aeroplane cover it's own Costs by earning Airshow Appearance Fees, for showing up every Weekend somewhere different, & being paid Charter-Prices for the Ferry-Flights...
The retired Harrier Pilot, Andy Hills, who ploughed & cooked a Traffic-Jam on a Motorway at Shoreham, with Somebody-Else's Hawker Hunter was another classic case...; he was illegally too low when commencing his Manouvre - because it was the Last BIG Airshow of the Season, and he wanted to leave a deep impression on everybody watching..., in the hopes of getting booked the following Season...; and he was far too slow for a Hunter at that weight to commence the Manouvre - but all the Speeds WERE Correct for the Hunting Jet Provost (1950s/'60s vintage RAF Jet Trainer) in which he was used to practicing his Displays - because he couldn't afford to fly the Hunter "merely" to practice his routine...
It all adds up to the apparently rapidly approaching day when NOBODY has the required "Currency", in both senses of the Word, to enable such venerable old Relics to be operated, at all, any more.
Time to sell one's Shares in
The Grande Airshow Spectacular Korporation Pty Ltd,
perhaps...(!) ?
Such is life,
Have a good one...
Stay safe.
;-p
Ciao !
I really believe these old birds should be parked and preserved. They have flown well beyond what they were designed for and unlike the B52, they don't receive full depot maintenance. I wonder if NDI inspections are done? Most likely they are maintained by weekend warrior volunteers, which is mostly scary, minus the few retired Crew Chiefs.
Really tragic. They should have just cancelled the flights for the day. Till they got everything squared away. obviously, there's no do overs in aviation. Outside a simulator.
I've taken 3 of these B-17 living history rides .. The Liberty Bell , The Movie Memphis Belle , & Aluminum Overcast.. They have been some of the greatest fun memories of my life. I love Warbirds and Airshows. Really liked this video because of the advice we are all asked to consider. Well done! Think about it.. Are your vehicles spares tires up to pressure? Do you ever even check it?
I rode in the 909 when I was 10 years old in 1994. The crew took a liking to me and even gave me a few minutes of stick time from the right seat. I’ll never forget the heavy controls. I’m now a 7,500+ hour ex-airline and current corporate pilot and flying in the 909 is one of my most fond memories flying.
Wow, just wow. Exactly.
The Oregon coast ( north bend) will miss not having these planes anymore. Witchcraft, tondelayo,toulouse nuts & our beloved nine o nine were here 6/2019 . I flew on tondelayo as I missed booking in time to fly on 909. It was a helluva ride to remember. R.i.p . To 909 & the 7 lost souls 😢
I rode on the Nine-o-Nine out of the old Amarillo Air Force Base in 2016. I cried when I found out it crashed in 2019.
Dan - thanks for the vid.
In UK we had a crash of Hawker Hunter @ Shoreham air show in '17 (i think) which impacted on an approach road to the airfield and killed 11 people - this led to a review of the qualifications/ experience of pilots doing these displays as well as display safety committees being judged more harshly on their preparations for emergencies. Would be interested in your view of the post-accident report.
(a) In respect of the pilot in the B-17 could he have become task saturated/ mission (landing) focused that all other considerations just didn't come into his thought processes?
(b) Did the PIC (Ernest) take control and did the right seat defer totally - we will never know i suppose - interesting you talk about CRM and how much this could have helped possibly but thats 20/20 hindsight.
Its difficult to judge what the factors were that led to the outcome that could have been avoided/ anticipated and those that were just inevitable consequences of 'a set of actions/ decisions or lack off'.
Sad. Great video thanks 👍
Thanks for the update.. I’m the TRACON controller who worked the a/c.
@@ProbableCause-DanGryder technically both I was training someone.
I flew in the EAA B-17 a little over a year ago. It was fantastic. Our crew gave us a pretty comprehensive preflight briefing on seatbelts and how to open the rear door if necessary. I thought it was a well-run operation and the flight was a once in a lifetime experience.
Crashes almost never just one thing. There was a chain of events that at least began when they had trouble starting the first two engines. There are at least two critical training lessons. One there is no penalty for declaring an emergency. The second is that in an emergency it's not advisable to pass up a perfectly good runway. He probably still had altitude and speed to put down on the cross runway. Might not have been pretty and might have still crashed but he would almost certainly stayed in the bounds of the airport and there isn't much to hit down that way. I know second guessing is easy but those are two mistakes that a common to a lot of crashes. The biggest of all and probably the hardest to overcome is to not realize until it's too late to accept that you are in fact in an emergency. Running up hours and being proclaimed the most qualified in the known universe may in fact have been to his detriment. He undoubtedly thought he could make it until it was too late.
Ray Holden Sir, Also lowering you're gear long b4 landing and yes passing up a good runway. On that I just read it was shutdown? I didn't hear Juan say anything about it being closed? and turning to the dead engine side twice? SO sad.
Always a quality presentation, Dan. Kudos for your comprehensive efforts. Train the way you fly; fly the way you train. Perfection isn’t possible, but in its pursuit, excellence will be realized. CAVU ✈️😎👍
I rode in this plane out of Keene, NH. Rode in the nose gunner’s seat. Sad day when she crashed.
Toured Nine-O-Nine at Frederick, Maryland in the summer of 2019. Sad.
Local branch of CAF posts progress reports on maintenance of their aircraft.
We can see how the engines get removed, disassembled, inspected, repaired and reassembled, then reinstalled and tested.
More documentation made public makes the likelihood of skipping steps less likely.
It's hard to justify "self policing" in this case, especially since many non-pilots buy tickets to ride along on these flights. They don't necessarily know/understand the risks they're signing up for.
24 years,109 flights....I knew, No shit!
@@charleswheatley3897 You might have, but what about the people on the ground who might get hit by the odd badly maintained, badly piloted old plane? How do you think they or their relatives feel, whilst you enjoy yourself?
Dan, I subscribed after a different video you did, but if I hadn’t then, this would do it. I am a warbird fan, and have been since I was a small child. Back in Florida in the 70’s I met Kermit Weeks and Martin Caiden. I flew in Iron Annie, a SNJ, and a two seat Mustang. Thank for this. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Wow, I’m honored for the comment Jake. Thanks.
All very good points. Thanks Dan.
Great analysis and thoughts 👍🏻.
Another excellent video and presentation of the facts.
Sadly, the NTSB Report goes into detail about the poor condition of the mags and spark plugs of the airplane and the lack of maintenance oversight that was - to some extent - the result of making the late Mac McCauley the Director of Maintenance for 909. The whole concept of oversight is dependent on having a second set of eyes looking over maintenance - and training, for that matter. The profound lack of an egress briefing is something that I just can't get over. Every person who has ever ridden in any of my antique airplanes absolutely knows how to use the door and get in and out of the airplane. I had the privilege to meet Mac a couple times and thought he was a great guy, but I'm curious what kind of actual TRAINING he AND HIS FO did in the airplane and how much they worked on procedures. In reading the report, I come away with the impression that actual training with some hard nosed instructor demanding procedural compliance and precision flying was distinctly absent.
Like you, I'd love to see the Living History Flying Experience (LHFE) program continue. Unfortunately, Collings Foundation didn't take any of the fundamentals in terms of training or maintenance - especially in a rare and complex airplane used for revenue flights with the general public aboard - seriously enough to avoid this tragedy. How many times do these operators expect the FAA to "give them another chance"? Given the magnitude of this tragedy, I think the real death knell of LHFE is going to be insurance. The cost of insuring these airplanes has skyrocketed as a result of this accident; unaffordable insurance and high overall operating costs are going to drive most of these operators out of business.
Yeah I perhaps should have touched on insurance.
Excellent review. Well done.
Lack of the ability to obtain insurance at affordable rates will probably ground all of these planes.
Or civil lawsuits filed after accidents. That will be the nail in the coffin.