Just listened to the whole video. As a 29 year licensed Amateur Radio operator in the US, your information is spot on. IERP is where we measure effective output power. Very good explanation. Unfortunately too many folks in FPV don't understand or follow the rules. Little chance of enforcement by the FCC unless you are causing problems, big problems. 5.8 GHZ has always been seen as an experimenters band as well as 3 GHZ. No activity by HAMs on those bands. I jumped from 2.4 GHz to 10 GHZ (portable dish) in my station. 10 GHz is were the portable stations hangout and do scheduled attempts to set new distance records for themselves.
Thanks for your info. I only have a technician license and I'm trying to comply with all the FCC and FAA rules. I'm confused about a lot of this. But on this particular subject, he's measuring the radio output in RMS, instead of PEP. Is this consistent with the FCC rules. And I can't find the actual FCC rule that is applicable to this situation and specifies the 1W limit or the 6dbi antenna gain limit. Thanks for any insight.
?? EIRP is the total output of the system inc. antenna. Nobody talks about EIRP when characterizing equipment... other than when they're trying to be deceptive.
@@Guenounovitch Please stop flying immediately if you need to ask this. Not following the rules will lead to more aggressive rules and enforcement, ultimately ruining the entire hobby.
Gain = A lightbulb in a flashlight reflective housing. No housing, same brightness in all directions. In the housing, brighter in one direction and dimmer in the others.
Please remember, this is all speculation and theory when it comes to range as he has not supplied any real in field (real world) testing and is only showing bench tests. Anyone can produce any result they want when it comes to bench testing. We all know by now that numbers are great but usually fall short, especially with the avatar system in real world usage.
Is it overreach to require you to have a driver license to be allowed to share the road with other drivers? The idea behind the HAM license is to make sure all operators can share the spectrum, without stepping on each other. Or interfering with licensed spectrums.
Perhaps you should test both again with a weakened signal from the goggles being far away to see if the output increases. 250 for the O3 is veerry low.
Using the a tiny sa ultra (good to 6ghz) you could show colorful graphs to give more info on signal content, and log to USB to make your graphs faster. Also those microcircuits attenuators don't inspire confidence in the measurements, and some of the devices you test go well over their power rating. I suggest looking at getting some better quality and higher wattage attenuators for example Narda 5W dc-6GHz. These aviation/military grade components would lend more confidence to your measurements, and can be had for good prices used on ebay.
An analog VTX is Continuous WAVE, but for digital Video systems the output systems is switching, basically it transmits in 2Watt but the VTX is also periods of time in receive mode, you'll measure an absolute power which is lower. Still the components and amplifier chip, do need to be designed to amplifiy and generate 2Watt. So best is to measure the peak power in the transmissions and not the RMS, as it is not a fair comparisson.
@ChrisRosser Hi thanks for the breakdown and test. 2:50 can you do a confirmation test that shows the moonlight camera pairing with the Avatar GT and recording in 4K? Or give a link to where I can confirm this. Thank you again and thanks for these great videos.
That really sounds impressive. I have a small fortune in DJI 03's and several V2 goggles and a pair of the new Goggles 3. The goggles 3 have an amazing image quality. I always thought I'd just stick with DJI to keep it simple. If I'm going to get another set of googles to run Walksnail which goggles are the best of the best all around goggles? Thanks for the awesome video that's now gonna make me spend more money...
I've watched multiple videos comparing the o3 to the avatar gt and even thought the g3 has higher power output, in practice it has less range and penetration than the o3, just curious why that is?
@@yatzeegamingop lot of people do. 25mW is just ridiculously low power for FPV. I kind of understand the limit if you are 100m high where the signal has free path everywhere but when flying FPV you are usually low with a lot of obstructions between you and the drone. Those obstacles also block the signal for everyone else so higher output powers do not matter that much. But law is law 🤷♂️
Does the extra power really help? The Walksnail system is a 2 way communication system between the goggles and the VTX. By only increasing the output power of the VTX, but not increasing the output power of the goggles would the goggles TX not be the limiting factor on range, not the VTX power output?
Exact, the goggles only send callbacks to ask for frames to be resent, its just a ping, not full video blocks. Also if you use the race mode, this functionality is i think not used, and only in receive mode, to be sure to get good fixed latency, at the detriment of blocky frames appearing sometimes
There is a relation between power, dB and field strength (range). In a theoretical perfect environments 10x power output will increase range about 3.19, 25x power will increase range about 5x. so increasing power will quickly become inefficient
Great explanation of FCC compliance! I just received my GT and wanted your advice on channels. Is there a general rule with Walksnail for selecting a channel to send/receive or just use the AUTO selection? I have read that CH 4 & 7 are the best but I'm no expert. Thanks!
Not the right testing conditions, the o3 will only give its max power in fcc and with the msp comand for arming . It doesn't work the same way as the vista , in which is enough to turn off the auto temperature control off to get max power.
O3 is rated to 1200mw max, so less than 2x as powerful. Also, Walksnail's compression algorithm seems to be a lot worse than DJIs, which means range will be probably about the same. And, 2x power only translates to 1.4x the range, even on the same system.
just my experience using same antennas on both i get way better range out of my avatar gt than the 03, i wish the 03 did better for me on range since the video quality is definitely better than the gt. quads get the 03 and lr planes get the avatar gt's.
Hi Chris , what about Walksnail v2 single and double antenna conductive power ? Is that the same value of the old test you’ve done in the past ? If I remember correctly on dual antenna it was around 500mw ?
I do love data and bench test results, but none of that translates to IRL performance and range. Sure, in a lab setting it might be 2x the range, but that probably only translates to like 25% more range IRL, maybe more on a perfect day with a clear line of site. Appreciate the data though, Chris.
I fly with 25mW. I get around 300m with the moonlight vtx and goggles l. I am not allowed to fly further away then 300, because of the laws in my country
Increasing the wattage is slowly pushing the little drones out of the picture. The large batteries a 2 watt Tx required to feed it is not practical for a small drone.
I personally think it's not correct for WS to call it a two watt system. Allowing antennas to be included in the power specifications, will make comparing power ratings meaningless. I want my power ratings to be independent from the antenna used. Thanks for making the video Chris. I'll use your links and buy another O3 Air Unit. (Do you still get a kick back if I buy DJI stuff from your links? I know DJI stuff is excluded from some deals.)
You need to show us the video quality as I feel the Avatar system still isn't as good as even the basic DJI Vista. The Dual antennas seems to be what this GT system seems to have going for it.
Great all fine , but none of the reviewers tell you how long this expensive stuff lasts!!! i have had HD ZERO stuff fail then Walksnail VRX and VTX and camera fail after perhaps twenty flights with collateral losses over 350 euro on top. The retailers make sure you have no come-back. This stuff is frankly robbery and you reviewers are in a way acomplices.
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Holding off buying this version knowing they will come out with a fanless, three antenna, GT v2 next month.
are you serious ?! 3 antennas ?
are you sure
is it out yet? I need a link.
Just listened to the whole video. As a 29 year licensed Amateur Radio operator in the US, your information is spot on. IERP is where we measure effective output power. Very good explanation. Unfortunately too many folks in FPV don't understand or follow the rules. Little chance of enforcement by the FCC unless you are causing problems, big problems. 5.8 GHZ has always been seen as an experimenters band as well as 3 GHZ. No activity by HAMs on those bands. I jumped from 2.4 GHz to 10 GHZ (portable dish) in my station. 10 GHz is were the portable stations hangout and do scheduled attempts to set new distance records for themselves.
"Unfortunately too many folks in FPV don't understand or follow the rules", can you explain why we should ?
Thanks for your info. I only have a technician license and I'm trying to comply with all the FCC and FAA rules. I'm confused about a lot of this. But on this particular subject, he's measuring the radio output in RMS, instead of PEP. Is this consistent with the FCC rules. And I can't find the actual FCC rule that is applicable to this situation and specifies the 1W limit or the 6dbi antenna gain limit. Thanks for any insight.
?? EIRP is the total output of the system inc. antenna. Nobody talks about EIRP when characterizing equipment... other than when they're trying to be deceptive.
Do you have any problem with fpv folks? Explain that
@@Guenounovitch Please stop flying immediately if you need to ask this.
Not following the rules will lead to more aggressive rules and enforcement, ultimately ruining the entire hobby.
It's clear who the new target audience is... guess the fpv community also wasn't waiting for night vision.
Gain = A lightbulb in a flashlight reflective housing. No housing, same brightness in all directions. In the housing, brighter in one direction and dimmer in the others.
Please remember, this is all speculation and theory when it comes to range as he has not supplied any real in field (real world) testing and is only showing bench tests. Anyone can produce any result they want when it comes to bench testing. We all know by now that numbers are great but usually fall short, especially with the avatar system in real world usage.
I think it is utterly ridiculous they require me to have a HAM radio to fly a fricken toy whoop. That's overreach to an extreme.
Agreed, luckily enforcement seems to be super scarce for now anyway
The rules have been around LONG before FPV. People have just ignored them.
Is it overreach to require you to have a driver license to be allowed to share the road with other drivers?
The idea behind the HAM license is to make sure all operators can share the spectrum, without stepping on each other. Or interfering with licensed spectrums.
@@Roman_4x5 It's overreach to tell me I should have a HAM license to play with a 19gram piece of plastic that flies.
Not everyone has good intentions, I thought that was obvious xD @@lectorserelith
Perhaps you should test both again with a weakened signal from the goggles being far away to see if the output increases. 250 for the O3 is veerry low.
THISSSSSS
I was thinking thw same thing. I thought power output was dynamic and close range will stay low . ?
Using the a tiny sa ultra (good to 6ghz) you could show colorful graphs to give more info on signal content, and log to USB to make your graphs faster. Also those microcircuits attenuators don't inspire confidence in the measurements, and some of the devices you test go well over their power rating. I suggest looking at getting some better quality and higher wattage attenuators for example Narda 5W dc-6GHz. These aviation/military grade components would lend more confidence to your measurements, and can be had for good prices used on ebay.
Let me add; i have analog cameras and VTX and VRX 's YEARS old and NOT ONE has ever failed.
Me either and I'm running 1.3
Fantastic testing and comparison, Chris! Thanks a bunch! 😃
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Unfortunately bench numbers don’t directly translate to the real world. A direct comparison would be good.
An analog VTX is Continuous WAVE, but for digital Video systems the output systems is switching, basically it transmits in 2Watt but the VTX is also periods of time in receive mode, you'll measure an absolute power which is lower. Still the components and amplifier chip, do need to be designed to amplifiy and generate 2Watt. So best is to measure the peak power in the transmissions and not the RMS, as it is not a fair comparisson.
Like the new **** **** ELRS module that blast 1W on LBT 2.4ghz band out of the box. My range is holy sh** now.
@ChrisRosser Hi thanks for the breakdown and test. 2:50 can you do a confirmation test that shows the moonlight camera pairing with the Avatar GT and recording in 4K? Or give a link to where I can confirm this. Thank you again and thanks for these great videos.
Part 15 regulations are for non licensed gear. Hams are part 97 and it’s not restricted differently other than ceding power if interfering.
Which means you better be broadcasting your callsign as text in your video OSD.
@@Superkuh2yes I always do
That really sounds impressive. I have a small fortune in DJI 03's and several V2 goggles and a pair of the new Goggles 3. The goggles 3 have an amazing image quality. I always thought I'd just stick with DJI to keep it simple. If I'm going to get another set of googles to run Walksnail which goggles are the best of the best all around goggles?
Thanks for the awesome video that's now gonna make me spend more money...
I've watched multiple videos comparing the o3 to the avatar gt and even thought the g3 has higher power output, in practice it has less range and penetration than the o3, just curious why that is?
because dji use ocusync 3
Thanks!
Sorry but i cant understand the 4 time more power
03 ONLY have 250mw????????? Lolol
@@PedroTome75no. I think it’s 700mw maximum. But you can’t choose it. It’s dynamic. So that 4 times more power is a little off.
So the 1w HDZERO freestyle v2 puts out more power than both DJI O3 and this GT
How far Caddx Vista unit was for its time :) 1200mw, range and penetration for days.
That’s all I still use
@@EMDRONES I use a mix, Vista/ 03 and recently some WS. But Vista IMO is still HD king!
Vista was never near 1200mW, though, that claim was only somewhat true for the original Air Unit with the 4.6dB stock antennas.
Still good got 11 km range test oneway ..20-30 Mbps bit rate
20W jammer don't break up WS GT signal, good job :)
In Finland maximum output power at the frequencies used by FPV VTXs is 25mW. Makes me sad to see these products and know I can never use them legally.
Use them illegally ? No one can even know that you fly over some grasslands with 1w vtx 😅
@@yatzeegamingop lot of people do. 25mW is just ridiculously low power for FPV. I kind of understand the limit if you are 100m high where the signal has free path everywhere but when flying FPV you are usually low with a lot of obstructions between you and the drone. Those obstacles also block the signal for everyone else so higher output powers do not matter that much. But law is law 🤷♂️
Law is like religion. Designed to be impossible to obey and follow. And then feeding of Your guilt ;)
Please make a review for the Runcam WifiLink.
Talking about vtx's, where is the review about the maten "11w" vtx? I was looking for it yesterday to revew smth and I could not find it
Does the extra power really help? The Walksnail system is a 2 way communication system between the goggles and the VTX. By only increasing the output power of the VTX, but not increasing the output power of the goggles would the goggles TX not be the limiting factor on range, not the VTX power output?
The goggles don't transmit nearly as much data as the VTX so I think the goggles don't need as much power to achieve the same range as the VTX.
Exact, the goggles only send callbacks to ask for frames to be resent, its just a ping, not full video blocks. Also if you use the race mode, this functionality is i think not used, and only in receive mode, to be sure to get good fixed latency, at the detriment of blocky frames appearing sometimes
There is a relation between power, dB and field strength (range). In a theoretical perfect environments 10x power output will increase range about 3.19, 25x power will increase range about 5x. so increasing power will quickly become inefficient
Great explanation of FCC compliance! I just received my GT and wanted your advice on channels. Is there a general rule with Walksnail for selecting a channel to send/receive or just use the AUTO selection? I have read that CH 4 & 7 are the best but I'm no expert. Thanks!
Back in FPV, missed a year... Is it compatibel with the first Walksnail goggles?
Not the right testing conditions, the o3 will only give its max power in fcc and with the msp comand for arming . It doesn't work the same way as the vista , in which is enough to turn off the auto temperature control off to get max power.
Your DJI output isn't when running the FCC mode. With the FCC on its 1.2 watt.
O3 is rated to 1200mw max, so less than 2x as powerful. Also, Walksnail's compression algorithm seems to be a lot worse than DJIs, which means range will be probably about the same. And, 2x power only translates to 1.4x the range, even on the same system.
No. These 1200mw include antenna gain.
O3 units have a 33dbm eirp. 2000mw
just my experience using same antennas on both i get way better range out of my avatar gt than the 03, i wish the 03 did better for me on range since the video quality is definitely better than the gt. quads get the 03 and lr planes get the avatar gt's.
@@garretpickens5745 thank You for this info..i wish You'd put that comment in the main comments, not as reply👍
The main issue with this new vtx is that the retransmission side coming from your goggles or vrx is still only outputting 1200mw….
This is true but the data rate from goggles to VTX is very low so you don't need so much power to get good range.
Hi Chris , what about Walksnail v2 single and double antenna conductive power ? Is that the same value of the old test you’ve done in the past ? If I remember correctly on dual antenna it was around 500mw ?
I do love data and bench test results, but none of that translates to IRL performance and range. Sure, in a lab setting it might be 2x the range, but that probably only translates to like 25% more range IRL, maybe more on a perfect day with a clear line of site. Appreciate the data though, Chris.
Great video and explanation! Mahalo from Maui, Hawaii 🤙🤙
drones aren't banned in commie hawaii, like everything else?
OMG . 2W is insane
For me that's all completely useless without a IRL range test. - Is it legal? Does really anybody fly with 25mw senders?
ArxangelRC did. 25mW with tracker to reach mountain.
I fly with 25mW. I get around 300m with the moonlight vtx and goggles l. I am not allowed to fly further away then 300, because of the laws in my country
@@mplouis i cant go over 25mw and out of line of sight in my country guess im a criminal (i might add i never fly in populated areas)
VTX output power should be measured at the outlet of the VTX.
And radiated power will never be more than the VTX output power.
How about GT and o3 range/penetration test?
Increasing the wattage is slowly pushing the little drones out of the picture. The large batteries a 2 watt Tx required to feed it is not practical for a small drone.
A ticket from the FAA results in a battery fire in a dry area on a windy day. Just sayin.
I personally think it's not correct for WS to call it a two watt system. Allowing antennas to be included in the power specifications, will make comparing power ratings meaningless. I want my power ratings to be independent from the antenna used.
Thanks for making the video Chris. I'll use your links and buy another O3 Air Unit. (Do you still get a kick back if I buy DJI stuff from your links? I know DJI stuff is excluded from some deals.)
DJI does the same (including antenna gain) so it is pretty comparable.
I Thought DJI o3 also has 2watts ??
Only maybe 1% of drone pilots have their HAM license probably to begin with anyway.
"is it even legal?"
hehehe... :D
Sending my quad with 10w vtx... :D
😮😮😮
WHAT ABOUT THE UK :') 25......
Hmmm 🤔
Cook a chicken with that output power 😂
You need to show us the video quality as I feel the Avatar system still isn't as good as even the basic DJI Vista. The Dual antennas seems to be what this GT system seems to have going for it.
Great all fine , but none of the reviewers tell you how long this expensive stuff lasts!!! i have had HD ZERO stuff fail then Walksnail VRX and VTX and camera fail after perhaps twenty flights with collateral losses over 350 euro on top. The retailers make sure you have no come-back. This stuff is frankly robbery and you reviewers are in a way acomplices.
Sounds like a "you" problem
4x the power because 2 antennas and double the power... of the 700mw EU rating?
I think that's what's going on...
why am i seeing 250mw ?
Who cares. Just fly , no hesi,. Once dey come out with there google X vrx upgrade it will be complete.
Sounds like a scam too me
My go pro has better range on wifi