The Clone Wars made Darth Maul a great character
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- Опубликовано: 21 окт 2024
- Star Wars: The Clone Wars made Darth Maul a great character.
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Bringing a character back for fan service is lazy
Bringing a character back because there is more story to tell isn’t
This is true, this is why Palps didn't work, even though he is powerful enough for it to make sense, there just wasn't really a reason to bring him back.
But I feel like Boba has a chance to be a fantastic foil for The Mando by being the epitome of his old lifestyle and not being a true Mandalorian walking around in their armor
@@Durpanny Also, if they were just going to reveal that Sheev was a clone in TROS, they should have just brought back Snoke
A story that doesn't really matter or has any effect on canon.
@Eragor the Kindhearted Nah it was to progress Rey's character
KYTEX GD dave filoni did it for both lol
Darth Maul really shined in this last arc, very cool character.
Darth maul shined in clone wars full stop and rebels and just about everything hes in nowadays... he is the easily one of the best SW characters.
Yoooooo it’s Tryu
Have you've seen the son of Dathomir comics? The story is awesome.
Honour and Family I have read them and I thought they were very cool, but it just makes me hate that the show got cancelled more.
@@haunted._sound yeah same, so many rich stories and character arcs to finish.
I think what makes him work so well as a resurrected character is, ironically, the very fact that he was just blank fodder that was tossed awayーtossed away to both the characters in universe and us as an audience. The writers were clever enough to see potential in that and used it as the core of his motivation; he basically had no identity in the eyes of others and that very thing became his identity.
Yup, both tools of Orders that did not care for them. THEN, finding out that justice is just a paradigm of the whim holds the power. Even though he was only half a Sith Maul would have killed Palpatine. Something Vader could never do because Sheev groomed right from childhood so Anakin would always be attached to him.
Sam Witwer is easily the greatest voice actor on the show. He brings genuine dread to Darth Maul's role.
To quote a comment I read on an Star Wars FB meme page:
"The trick to a good/acceptable resurrection vs. a stupid or disappointing one is a function of how meaningful their original death was and how well the writing handles them once they’re resurrected. Maul is the quintessential example of it being done right- in TPM, he was little more than a mook, who visually represented the return of the Sith that was carried on by Sidious in subsequent films anyway, and though his connection to Obi-Wan was personal in that he killed his master, his defeat was not itself cathartic or representative of any character grown on Obi-Wan’s part. Bringing him back is, thus, acceptable, because there are no story or character beats to cheapen with his return AND they successfully proved that there was more good stuff to do with his character. Meanwhile, somehow Palpatine returning is the exact opposite- his death in ROTJ was the culmination of multiple movies’ worth of buildup, between Vader’s personal tragedy, the evils of the Empire as a whole, and Luke’s journey as a character, and his character was explored pretty much as thoroughly as it could be in the prequels. Bringing him back (even it’s explained in the visual guide to droids and weapons tie-in book or whatever explains that he’s really a clone) cheapens all of that.
"
Juan Yu See bringing him back in legends was a bad idea and bringing him back in Canon again was a bad idea. I really wish they used Darth Plagueis instead of Sidious
Palpatine's resurrection just needed a little more buildup.
@@LearnedSophistry yeah i remember when i read dark empire i was going "why?"
His return in EU was very shoehorned, but if you think on the canon inclusion, it does make sense because of how it is done.
I’ll quickly touch on the clone thing before my main point, it says that he is a clone of Darth Plagueis’ apprentice from before, meaning it is the same Palp as since before the saga began. The clone mention was to explain that is how Snoke was made, using that old tech. The clone killed the Palp from before the saga, continuing the Sith ritual as seen in TROS that passed on the knowledge.
On to the main point, how is Palp being brought back a good thing? For one, he’s been the main villain through the saga. For him to be the main villain through the first two trilogies and not the third would be logical, yes, but horrible story-wise. Think about it in full, it would be like in the last Harry Potter movie, it turns out that it was not Voldemort who was the main villain. However, by using the established lore to explain how Palp survived turns it into functional logic. Vader no longer killed Palp, but instead dealt a crippling blow, that he had not foreseen, that made his plans have to recuperate and eventually make his way back to the Sith homeworld. We see in the movie that Vader’s blow has still greatly broken him despite his powers. This keeps Vader’s redemption and sacrifice still highly worthy. Further, Palpy not showing himself for two movies fits very well with the character. He’s always been the puppet master, we’ve just had movies show him doing this. Now we know what the Jedi felt like all this time.
*TL;DR*
In conclusion, Palpatine returning was not perfect, but it made sense narratively, gave weight to established lore which in turn provided logic to it, and it kept weight to events and characters tied to him.
@@WalkinStereotype It depends more on how you view the saga.
If you connect them into one long story, it kind of works... except TFA kind of ruins that by not connecting with the end of ROTJ at all.
If you look at them as 3 separate trilogies (creation of the empire, fall of the empire, legacy of the empire), TFA works (still not too well, but is acceptable), but TROS doesn't work because Kylo being the main villan would have made far more sense for that.
At this point I consider Maul a Clones Wars character that happened to appear in a prequel movie rather than a Prequel Trilogy character who appeared in the series.
I just watch the prequels as prequels to The Clone Wars
The Clone wars are part of the Prequels tho.
Well he is a prequel character, deal with it
You mean “The Clone Wars made Darth Maul a character.”
Our One True Emperor To put it simple Yes
@Bongo Kongo Eh... No. People who love the prequels characters because the prequel trilogy exist. Stop with that blind hate.
Bongo Kongo Absolutely. TCW was a miracle for the Prequels.
Tomás Gabriel Carrizo Clearly you don’t remember how much hate there used to be for the PT.
yeah, when most people say they like the prequels they seem to mean duel of the fates, tcw and episode 3, never met a single person irl with anything good to say bout episode 2 other than the sound the bombs make.
And his character receives further development in Rebels.
Which Greedo should watch next
LeRandomBro
Agreed, which I think he intends to. That’s why I didn’t go into any potential details that would be spoilers.
Greedo should just watch the parts with Ahsoka and Maul in Rebels. The Ezra stuff is pretty irrelevant. Sabine is pretty irrelevant too. Now Bo Katan is pretty badass, she gets less credit than her sister Satine. I suspect Satine did have Obi-Wan's child. But he would have been bound by the laws of Mandalore. So much rich story in CW that always there to develop.
@@astrobot702 Vader and Thrawn?
@@astrobot702 Rebels is worth the watch
He went from being one of my favourites in the sense of "Oh he was cool in that one lightsaber fight" to being one of my favourites for his amazing character. The Clone Wars made characters shine in ways I would have never thought possible.
His story arc in Rebels - his relationship with Ezra and his (second) death and final words - was perfect.
I think the focus on Maul was misplaced in TCW... He fit much better in Rebels.
0:27 is that your daughter?
I would be surprised, I don't think babies around 12-14 months are talking like that.
@@goldfishprime Where did you get those 12-14 months? 🤔
HG's daughter was born in (somewhat) early 2018.
Clone Wars Maul felt like the first Star Wars character who was chaotic evil, sometimes even feeling almost chaotic neutral. He didn't have any grand evil plan like Sidious and he didn't serve an order like the Jedi. He served himself and functioned more or less like an anarchist. His individualism brought him a lot of power but also a lot of pain. The writers somehow managed to make him feel both menacing and pathetic at the same time. I feel like that was a first in Star Wars canon and I absolutely loved it. Never thought I would like Maul coming back as much as I ended up.
Sam Witwer better win an Emmy for his voice work in S7. Amazing work
It's also pretty funny cause Darth Maul nearly could've stopped Order 66.
@Imabubble yay yeah but who would trust him?
The story of maul coming pack is actually pretty funny, Lucas realised a lot of people liked the design for maul. So he considered the idea of bringing him back first until basically everybody told him “no George, you killed him” so they created Savage, then when Savage did pretty well, George pretty much just went “ok cool, now bring maul back.”
Bugeye0704 its disappointing that they killed savage tho bc I wanted to see more of his brute force being executed. Nice back story tho I never knew lol.
I want a sequel to Solo because then we’ll get a chance to see more of the expanded version of Maul in live action
Arry Young he could appear in the Kenobi series
@@MeGAMaTT1254 All he'd do is exactly what he did in Rebels, anything else makes no sense.
#MakeSolo2Happen
Instead of Solo 2, I’d rather just see a “Crimson Dawn” drama series on Disney+.
My prediction/hope is that Maul and Qi'ra's story could be finished in the Kenobi show. It only makes sense that Obi-Wan would be squaring off against Maul again, and it would be more fun than just another show where the Empire is the bad guy.
Personally Darth Maul is my favorite Star Wars villain and I'm glad they did him Justice in the Clone Wars Season 7
He was the Son of Dathomir
He was the apprentice of Palpatine
*He’s the corn of the cob*
Maul.
Darth maul in the clone wars has been awesome, I liked his contribution to the phantom menace with that great Lightsaber duel, but clone wars gave him so much depth, one of the strongest arcs in the show, and he appeared in my two favorite episode's of the series, ' Revenge', and ' the Lawless'
if only they had given grievous the same respect, dude went from a strategic badass who had to punch well above his weight to fight jedi taking every advantage he could get, to being less competent than every other separatist general.
they even changed his origin to have him go from a resourceful freedom fighter who defeated a superior foe who killed his beloved then in their desperation then called on the republic and jedi for aid dooming his people thus starting his grudge, to some guy who hates jedi and became a cyborg to fight them, grievous used to be able to take on most any jedi outside of the council, now he gets the run around from padawans.
Let’s all hear it for the fantastic Sam Witwer, who made the Maul we all love today. We love you, too, Ray Park.
I was hoping for Kenobi
KENOBIIIIIIIAAAAAAHHH
He went from a cool character to a brilliant and complex character
"Some characters can die, they don't need to come back"
*Clears throat*
*SOMEHOW...*
I can agree with that! He was my favorite in TPM but they really fleshed him out.
Your redemption arc with the prequels due to TCW has been beautiful to watch.
“Boba Fett being back... you know, in legends?”
You’re in for a surprise, my friend. XD
Clone Wars made Maul my favorite character in the franchise
Greedo saying he doesn’t like character resurrections is the new Ben Shapiro’s wife is a doctor
Ugh im so bummed out still we didnt get to see all your reactions and reviews to the clone wars series. So many of the best episodes and moments are missing!
Witwer really brought his game voicing Maul. He also voice the Emporer I believe.
I know about the outrage people had when Palpatine returned in Legends during the 90s, but the execution was goddamn amazing considering just how good the Dark Empire comics were. It was that comic series as well as Zahn’s original Thrawn trilogy that kept Star Wars afloat at the time.
Darth Maul is my favorite character in Clone Wars and Rebels and is just one of my favorite characters in all of Star Wars.
My favorite character from the clone wars
I have actually heard someone say: The clone wars ruined Darth Mauls character!
me: sigh
Darth maul is potentially my favourite character due to clone wars Hes a straight badass and I love it
Darth Maul was literally amazing in Clone Wars and I am so glad they made him better than the Prequels!!!
For me, it's to the point that when I see Maul in The Phantom Menace and I have a weird reaction of "Hey looks a clone wars character cameoing in the films! So that's what he'd look like in live-action!"
They did an amazing job, props to Filoni.
Dave Filoni explains pretty well why the Phantom menace dual is symbolically importantly and it makes it a bit more tense
correction maul was revealed to be alive in season 3 episode 14 witches of the mist at the end.
Having Boba return wouldn’t bother me because I never considered him dead
I still say that Palpatine's resurrection worked. He just needed more build up in the other movies
0:27 WAS THAT YOUR DAUGHTER?! OMG SO ADORABLE
I personally love every episode Maul is in, Sam Witwer really brought new life to the character
The Clone Wars made Maul one of my all-time favorite characters
Mauls scenes in the Rebels series were awesome too. Especially his death.
Before Attack of the Clones came out, I had a dream that Episode 2 featured a revived Darth Maul with robot legs. I thought to myself 'Nah, that'd be stupid, he should stay dead, bringing him back would be cheap and pointless'
Never have I been happier that my dream was right and my waking thoughts were wrong.
Ilyas Basuki
Yeah!
"We're all going to burn we're all going to die". I am Darth Maul.
Now that you have finished clone wars you should totally check out rebels. Maul's story and Ahsoka's continues perfectly.
I remember tons of fans with their fan-fictions of Maul surviving with Spider-Legs etc. back then.
Ive said it before and I'll say it again: they could've achieved the same effect, but still respect the fact that he DIED by bringing out his brother or something: Out for revenge against Kenobi for killing his brother, etc
Agreed. Much of this show felt like an exercise in self-justification... Trying to prove why the thing they did was okay and cool... And thus trading all that screen time they could've spent making something new or developing core prequel characters further.
Are you going to review rebels since you are done with the clone wars, I want to see what you think of the final meeting between Maul and Obi Wan and Thrawn
Character resurrection can work if the character grows and changes after their return. It won’t work if they come back just to fill a dynamic lost after their death or simply for nostalgia.
Maul worked because he was a blank slate in TPM, so when he came back, there was so much to do with the character in terms of personality. Palpatine didn’t work because he was no different after his death than he was before.
I really hope Sam Witwer, who voices Maul here and in both Rebels and Solo, gets more work outside of Star Wars. The guy’s a terrific voice actor and honestly, other franchises should really consider taking him on board. Heck, he even made for a pretty great Palpatine in The Force Unleashed and Battlefront.
He’s got some work in Battlestar and he was in a few DC shows
Yes! I honestly think he could be the next Nolan North or Troy Baker. He is an amazing voice actor.
100% agreed. Judging by his performance as Ocean Master in Justice League: Throne of Atlantis, I think he'd make a kickass Loki. Anyone else have ideas they'd like to share?
@@christianwelch4206 you may not agree, but I feel like he could make a pretty good Joker.
I'd like to see parts of his story between Clone Wars and Solo in some show.
Or what happened to him between Solo and Rebels that ended up with him stuck on Malachor.
I've always said that the only thing he did before The Clone Wars was a cool fight. He had nothing going for him until The Clone Wars made him great
Am I the only one who thinks that Sam Witwer's voice acting in Ep. 10 of season 7 is incredible. Especially the line after Ahsoka says that the Jedi can stop Sidious before it's too late. Where he says, "Too late? For what?! The republic to fall?! It already has and you just can't see it! There is no justice, no law, no order! Except for the one that will replace it! The time of the Jedi has past! No one can stop Sidious." Idk, just feel that line is underrated
In the last arc he started to act like a mad prophet or priest and I loved that
Fuck off he was always awesome, tbh I see them as two different characters, they have such different personalities and presences on screen that they just don’t feel like the same person. I like both
With character resurrections you either get Superman in the Death and Return of Superman (poorly executed) or you have Jason Todd in A Death in the Family and Under The Red Hood (well executed)
It made the clones a great character it made anakin a great character it made padme a great character it made count Dooku, general grevious, the separatists, mandalorians and countless other planets and species we didn’t even know great. I’m not tryna be a clone wars fanboy (I am) but I’m just so excited that there’s great Star Wars our there. It also made obi wan greater (my all time fav character). All these improvements deepen the universe of Star Wars and make all the movies great! Even the OT MAKE STAR WARS GREAT AGAIN. Tbh after seeing the finale of CW it’s great :)
I remember saying the same thing under a video few months ago and that Maul was basically just "a cool dude" before the clone wars series...
A guy replied that i was wrong and that Darth Maul was always great character and even in the phantom menace it was easy to see his personality.
Now i don't want to call that guy a prequel fanboy or one of those that really think "the prequels are better than the sequels" but...i'm 100% sure that i said "tell me a darth maul's line from the phantom menace or you will die" i could destroy humanity.
I love how they used maul's defeat at the phantom menace to build his character. How he was supposed to be at sidious side, to continue in the sith heritage and to destroy the jedi, only to be defeated and forgotten.
I think we need more characters like that. Characters that are deep without repeating darth vader
This title can't be debated and argued.
Darth Maul finally became the Villain he was always meant to be.
Have you watched Rebels yet? If not this is a good time to start.
Arguably the most unpopular opinion on the clone wars you can possibly have:
The Clone Wars didnt do Anakin's transition to the dark side perfectly. Or at least, the transition was brilliantly foreshadowed but there is SO much of a whiplash when you imagine the Anakin from season 7 of Clone Wars turning into the dark side Anakin we see in ROTS within the span of like a week or less.
In ROTS i totally believed he hated Obi-Wan, he had been a little b**ch about it for the entire movie. The problem was i never believed he actually LIKED Obi-Wan before his turn.
In Clone Wars i have the absolute opposite problem. Almost zero antagonistic tension between him and Obi-Wan. He also seemed to be totally okay in season 7. Would have been nice to have like a scene where Ahsoka is surprised to find Anakin a bit unhinged, exhausted, traumatized, stressed out and unsociable because he is supposedly basically slowly going through a mental break during this season.
Clone Wars turned Anakin into one of my favourite characters in all of Star Wars, possibly my favourite. Yet it too didnt manage a believable switch from good Anakin to Younglings killing Anakin. At least not for me.
However, i dont think the blame there lies with Clone Wars. I think Lucas is to blame because the switch he makes in ROTS is just too bizarre. I can imagine the Anakin we've come to love becoming progressively more aggressive and ruthless, with his sense of justice slowly turning him evil. However in ROTS he just makes a 180 and the very sense of justice that pushed him to go so far is just completely gone and he turns into a cartoon villain within 10 minutes. His evil side wasnt an extension of already existing his already existing character. His character had to inherently change to become that evil and that just didnt work.
I dont think there was much the Clone Wars could do to salvage that. The only thing they could do was end a significant time before his turn so its kinda left blurry how he got from Clone Wars Anakin to ROTS Anakin.
Quite an essay!
Yeah, the transition from him being mostly normal to killing younglings and such was always jarring to me also. The only argument I can think of is that maybe it's just a testament to how powerful the dark side is; once you dabble in it slightly, it consumes you completely. But i do agree it could've been written better.
It isn't bizarre at all.
We saw him slaughter an entire Tusken Raider camp in episode 2 in cold blood, and Dooku points out how Anakin has a lot of fear, anger and hatred, but never uses it.
The signs were always there.
I want a CH-33P action figure... That's how you know CW was really good. I still have my Savage Oppress figure too. It would have to a custom job. You need a used Chopper figure for the body and a used round R2 headpiece possibly modded for the correct look. Some metallic matte paint and some creativity
Is it just me that’s interested to see Maul leading his criminal empire between CW and Rebels(Solo is before Rebels)
To me character ressurction is almost never a problem (besides the times where a characters death meant so much, that it doesn't feel right to bring them back), to me it's about the execution, I like to be open to what's to come, see how it's executed, then lay my judgement.
Boys, we did it. Our mission began in 2012, and it was a long road to get here, but we did it: HelloGreedo is one of the good guys now.
Actually his character was developed from the comics. They only put his comic book character arc and more into the show. Basically, when he was put on the show that's when he was globally loved by the movie fans. While, most people who read comics were just glad that others can ow badass he was, because most people don't read comics or books.
I will say this: if I only thought about Darth Maul from TPM, I would call him the most overrated SW character ever. TCW really did him justice.
So you would have considered him more overrated than original trilogy Boba Fett? At least TPM Maul was in two lightsaber fights and managed to kill a Jedi Master. What did Boba do in the OT besides capture Han Solo with the help of Vader, take a couple pot shots at Luke on Bespin, then in Ep. VI he gets his rifle cut in half by Luke before being knocked into the Sarlaac because a blind Han Solo accidentally bumped into his jetpack.
Maul is literally the greatest of Sith tragedies... Voiced by SW nerd Sam Witwer, the voice and likeness of literally the greatest character of EU characters Galen Marek. Not only that, he sees Sidious grand design and TELLS Ahsoka Tano, and she fails to see what is in front of her because she is still attached to Anakin. THEN, teaches her the one lesson that Anakin never could, which is to let go of attachments, she saves her friend, she saves herself by letting go of her life as a Jedi, and she let's go of Anakin losing her 'brother' at the cost of many lives she could have saved had she said something, anything to master Yoda. 'Something more you have to say?'
All I can say is 'Avenge us.'
-Second Sister (Jedi: Fallen Order)
I wish they would have given the same treatment to count dooku and grievous because they are actually major players in the clone wars from the start. instead they are rather simple and one noted villains in the show while the guy that is supposed to be dead since forever has a full fledged story arc
Remember Greedo his story isn’t over he’s in Rebels
Did I hear a cameo from the child? That's adorable!
I knew Maul was still alive, I remember reading there was supposedly a novelization where Maul was still alive, had robot legs and had a showdown with Obi-wan. So part of me always hoped he'd return.
Mans literally too angry to die
Greedo, I think u should review the Crystal Crisis of Utapau arc in the Clone Wars, the unfinished episode. You'll really enjoy that arc 😂
I used to think he was overrated because he just swung his saber and died. But wow now he was one of my favorites because of clone wars
Completely agree Greedo! Took some time, but being thrown down a pit has officially become an unreliable method of killing in Star Wars, and I've officially become okay with that.
I feel like a good way to look at characters coming back is this:
If a character's death is important to the character development of others and ressurrecting them hurts it, or if it's important to the story and them being back hurts it, or if their death was well built up and was satisfying, then they shouldn't bring them back. If a character isn't anything interesting in the movies or is just another bad guy with no interesting story, but with potential, that doesn't hurt the story of the movies, then them being brought back is acceptable.
Boba's ROTJ death had no emotional impact, and was honestly kind of disappointing. If there's a better story to be told with him surviving, then that's what they should do.
same goes for Maul. We didn't have any reason to care about his character in TPM, TCW is what made him interesting, and his full story is now far more in character for him, so the fact they did it is for the better.
Palpatine, on the other hand, is an example of a bad way to bring back a character. He comes back, but he already had his story in the PT and OT, Also, his entire character is that he's a bad guy, that's the point of his character, so they didn't tell a more interesting story with him, and his death in TROS had less emotional impact than the one in ROTJ (even if his death in TROS looks better and feels more like the final bad guy being defeated). To un-do an iconic death like that really requires a lot of work for it to be acceptable, and they should have been building up his return for years. It's not out of character or anything, and it still felt like Sheev, but it just didn't feel like it was worth doing for a more disappointing end result.
To be honest him being resurrected is still a bit goofy but the way the character is handled is so well done that you kind of just accept it and love it in the end.
The reason it worked to bring Maul back was because there was something for him to bring to the plot and to other characters’ development. It brought development for Obi-Wan, for the reformation of the Republic into the Empire, bringing him back made sense. I didn’t like it at first, but they justified it by making a very interesting story with him. The same cannot be said for Palpatine, and I can’t say the same can be said for Boba Fett, as a show like the Mandalorian is not the place to bring back a dead character, he wouldn’t have a chance to shine anyway. Don’t bring two dead characters back in one damn year
He‘s actually now my favorite sith character which is crazy considering that in his first movie appearance he has no real exposition or character development whatsoever
So we needed 1 hour long explanation how Palpatine came back to life in a almost 3 hour movie it just doesn’t fit in a tv series you can not in a movie.
I see what you mean but I like the idea of boba fett returning. I think they could possibly do for him what clone wars did for maul. We’ve technically never SEEN him doing anything badass
Grace from "Beyond the Trailer" wants Maul to come back from the grave yet again for the Mandalorian. I kid you not.
He's definitely my favorite character
Greedo really REALLY became a dad
Hello Greedo wait til U see SW Rebels. Filoni gave Maul the best conclusion u could ask for.
Wouldn't be a Hello Greedo video in anyway pertaining to Maul without mentioning not liking character resurrections 😆
Love your work mate 👍
I want now an Solo TV series sequel!
I think if they can make Darth maul have such depth after the fact of being in their "primary" source and dying without much depth I see no reason why they couldn't do the same with Boba Fett or General Grevious and they could improve the characters more
go through every greedo video and take a shot every time he mentions not liking the idea of characters coming back
What about Star Wars Legends? I remember there being a few books that really expanded his character.
HelloGreedo doesn't care about Legends only Disney.
Disney didn’t make everything they just have the rights
So give Boba a chance in Mando S2, you might enjoy and prefer the fact he returned if they do it well enough.
So no one is going to talk about how Sam Witwer breathed life into Maul? Sure, the writing was there and was good. But I'm not sure if it would've been as fantastic if Sam wasn't giving his all in each performance. The dude gave 110% during every take and that effort alone made Maul one of my top 3 favorite Star Wars characters and my fav Star Wars villain.