I have the 1st generation 60V dewalt saw that came with the 16inch bar. Ran it a few times then replaced the bar and chain with an 18inch Oregon. And it woke that saw up big time. Cut way faster and better. Battery life didn’t change much either. But I mostly cut pine. The few times i cut up oak with it, it cut well but its a battery eating machine. I ran through 3 9ah and 1 6ah batteries in a little over an hour.
thank you for this informative video, I'm sure it came to everyone's surprise that the saw isn't variable speed and the issues and limitations of the chain great video 11/10 👍
I run the Dewalt 20" bar on my Greenworks 80v (18") saw. The saw is better for limbin' & buckin' with the longer bar. I buy the 68-drive link chains online from Frawley's Saw Shop. You can get a NON-low kickback 68-link chain if you want. It still has 3/8 LP cutters but NOT low-kickback rakers. Bye the way, if you want an electric saw that runs a standard chain try a Greenworks Commercial 82v (really 80v & 82v batts. are the same voltage). The GW Commercial saws run a .325 x .050" chain.
I'm in the UK, and have been using the biggest saw that dewalt do over here, which is the DCM575, 54 volt, 16 inch bar. It's been used everyday for general logging for a woodburner. After 3 years, I'm still telling others not to bother with anything else, it gets used for at least an hour everyday, still on its original power pack, so been re-charged over 1000 times now, and it's still going strong. It did 73 6x6 cuts in semi hardwood yesterday, which is more than dewalt reckon when new. DeWalt have just released what looks to be new, bigger version, I'm trying to find the differences between it and the American 60volt version as tested above..
Just used this saw to clear some land in TN. With 12AH battery it was plenty to buck and limb up small to medium trees. It’s not powerful enough IMO to cut down large trees (notch and back cut) but once the tree is down it’s a perfect tool especially if you’ve already got dewalt 60v tools/batteries. Wish the chain supplied wasn’t a low profile but you can find alternatives online. Cannot wait for 60v “powerstack” batteries to come out
I felled (notched and back cut) 2000 sq ft of trees up to 14 inch trunks with just the 1w inch dewalt. I ordered this because of the increased power and speed and for a log and stump that are about 3 foot in diameter at the widest. Can't wait to give it a thrash. Arrives any day now. Shipping delays from China...
Have used my UK DCM575, 54volt, 16 inch to drop trees upto 28-30 inch, bit slow at times, but I just shove a couple of nylon wedges in to take account of the slow cutting speed. Always done with fresh sharpened, full cutter chain and spare 6amh power pack just in case the 9amh isn't enough. Biggest problem I find is the narrow cut, I prefer something a bit chunkier for felling..
I’m going to get this saw with the 20” bar and a 15ah. Hopefully battery technology is able to catch up like you said(60v powerstack) I’m sure they will have 18ah or 20ah soon! I’ve got a miter saw and air compressor that use the 60v batteries so a 15ah will be useful.
So I just finished reviewing the 16-in verse the 20-inch. I also was disappointed to see it was not a variable speed trigger on the 20 in. However it seems to be variable speed in fact. Takes a lot of finesse and I noticed the variable speed trigger on the 16-in much for controllable but the 20-in does have a variable speed trigger
Maybe there is a difference in regions, maybe some variations in production, mine doesn’t matter how much you finesse it, it is either on or off, no in between.
I see several comments about the saw being (non) variable speed. In early 2018, I purchased a Greenworks Pro 80 volt 18" saw. The trigger has the tactile feel of variable speed and I'm fairly certain the unit was advertised as variable speed. However, the saw is strictly on/off. Same thing with the 80 volt Pro string trimmer I purchased in the spring of 2018. Curiously, I bought a Greenworks Commercial 82 volt backpack leaf blower in October of 2021. The blower actually is variable speed. BTW - I'll never go back to gas for any of these tools.
I have other saws that are variable that cost a lot less money, I would have thought the DeWalt would have had it but it’s not a deal breaker for me I still really like the saw, for the smaller jobs I tend to go battery a lot, but if I have to use a saw for several hours I’ll go to gas because it’s still more convenient to just add gas and keep going, they only way to do that with battery is to have more batteries and the batteries are over $300 each.
Actually own on of these, was disappointed with the bar and chain that came with it. Switched out the 20” bar for a 16” and put a better chain on it. Significantly improved the performance of saw. Only issue I have with saw is the bar loosens off too easily. Other that love the saw, have two 12 amp batteries and I can easily buck up a two full length trees on one battery, this is on full length hard wood trees. This is not a commercial grade saw, but damn I am pleasantly surprised by how handy it is to get away from gas.
I may try some different chains to see how they perform too, I like the handiness of the battery saws but for the bigger jobs or all day cutting still find myself going back to the gas saws.
Don’t think sprockets will work from any gas saw, as far as chain I had someone comment they put a none low profile on and it was to tall, it cut into the plastic cover, could maybe work with some mods, like cutting the plastic for clearance, but me personally I don’t like doing stuff to make it work I’d rather have it fit correct and just use the correct sizes
@@WilliamsonRidge I also noticed that especially when you put pressure on, quite a lot of the chips were spitting out of the top front of the sprocket cover instead of out of the rear bottom. That's a sign of the cover being too small and not designed well (or clog at the rear, but I don't think that was the issue here). If it's that bad on elm, imagine how bad it would be cutting softwoods. There needs to be a bigger a$$ for pooping out all those chips.
More Torque means it will move forward with big power and not just spin. Something could be spining but it has no power to move forward thus it is impact driver if you put force into it , then it will go through it very good actually but can damage things but impact driver has small spin and this chain saw means exactly that if it has more torque it will really cut through it but its spin is not bigger. The voltage produces more spin the current produces more push, and in this case to cut you also need to move to cut it so yes it is top stuff. It wont steal that is for sure.,,
I've ran quite a few cordless saws, and although high chain speed is nice for faster cutting, it also comes with the problem of low torque. The saws with slower chain speed have much better gear ratios. I find it very annoying when I'm pushing slightly to hard and a saw keeps wanting to stall out. I'd much rather prefer a slower chain speed with lots of torque. The Milwaukee M18 saw is a great example of a saw that cuts great and really fast as long as you don't apply to much force. But then you have saws like this and the Greenworks 80v saw that just refuse to stall out, even when your really trying. I've been watching some videos on the Stihl MSA 300, and it looks like a really nice saw, but it's not cheap. Really the best saw for the job is probably going to be the one that you already have batteries for. Nowadays, all these manufacturers make some pretty great saws. Technology has come a long way. I personally feel the Greenworks saws are the best bang for the buck. They go onsale all the time, the quality is pretty good, and the power per dollar is very good.
@@WilliamsonRidgeI have both. I feel the EGO's are better built; but I've yet to have a Greenworks fail. I do agree that for a given power and size; the Greenworks are much more economical.
I’ve heard really good things with the Ego, I don’t think you could go wrong either way, so one could make the decision based on battery platform if you are already invested in one of the brands stay with it so you could interchanged batteries between tools
@@ghmsadam He did not test the (much more expensive) Husquvarna top handle arborist's climbing saw. Stihl has one in Europe like that too, but not in the States yet. Those easily destroy these home-gamer saws, but you pay a much different price.
Ego doesn't compare, battery overheats on the saw, blowers and trimmers. They have great specs, great triggers with variable speed, good balance but the batteries are the flaw. I literally couldn't limb and buck a 12" poplar without the 7.5 ah battery dying and overheating multiple times. Returned it and sold all my ego equipment. I really wanted to like it because it has so much potential but the batteries are the weak link.
It may have bent a link in the chain the first time it came off and now as soon as it gets in a bind or out of adjustment it naught be catching and making it jump of, I had one like that it was actually noticeable when it went around the tip of the bar you could see it didn’t fit just right when it went around it, like it lifted just a bit as it went around because the link wasn’t flexible
Only problem with this saw I see mostly is the battery heating up to fast. To the point where it stop running and you have to wait before starting up again.
THAT WAS FUNNY YOU CUT THE CAMERA OFF REALL QUICK WHEN YOU GOT THE SAW JAMED. THE SAW SHUT OFF WHEN YOU PUT TOO MUCH PRESSURE ON THE MOTOR SO YOU WON'T DAMAGE THE MOTOR FOR SAFTY.
@@WilliamsonRidge I have a HT130 pole saw with an odd 3/8 "pico" chain; is that considered low profile? Also is there such thing as low profile chain that is still full chisel? Full chisel means that the working corner is a right angle corner and not a curve or angle. I don't think I have anything to reference so that's why I'm asking.
Love mine got 2 15ah battery I think the tool is designed so you don't over tightening the nuts it does dig in your hand but better than stripping threads just sharpened chain with a dremel first time it's razor sharp dimond bits
I disagree with your disclaimer about the chain speed. I think it IS slower than most of the other big saws. The big EGOs and Greenworks fairly scream when running at full speed. BUT! they are also rather easy to stall.
I disagree with that, I have two 20” Ego chainsaws and they are not at all easy to stall, and will cut circles around the DeWalt, I’m going to try to have a comparison soon
I was going by your demonstration. I didn't mean that the Dewalt can cut faster than the EGO. I have no experience using a Dewalt. I based my comment on watching you and listening to the saw; and was very impressed by how much you were able to lean on the Dewalt without having it stall. I don't think I can do that with my CSX5000.
I don't know how much cutting you guys have done with a chainsaw but I'd say 95 percent of the time I cut at full throttle very rarely would I need variable speed.
Well, in my area, and the folks im around typically say it as Dee-Walt, I’ve heard Dwalt from others, I think it is a matter of the area u are in, I would say the correct way is D’Walt
@@WilliamsonRidge I understand I just purchased the saw it doesn't seem heavy for a 20 in saw it actually seems pretty balanced but I have the 9ah battery dont know if that's much or any difference in weight.
You do realize this thing weighs more than a Stihl Ms271 with a 20inch chain and bar right? Ms271 only weighs around 12pounds this thing weighs over 17pounds so yeah it is heavy and heavier than a gas saw with a 20inch bar and Chain depending on the one you're talking about. It's even heavier than a Ms291 which comes in at 12.3 pounds. I can go on and on its even heavier than a $1300 Ms462 with a 20inch bar and Chain which comes in at 13.2. This battery saw comes in at over 17pounds so it is definitely heavy!
My use case has been keeping one in my Jeep for camping and road clearing, this way I don't have to deal with gas in in the cab. Was using a Sawzall with a pruning blade for this before- big improvement.
I own many tools. There’s a reason why only one of those tools is a DeWalt. I’ve never been very impressed by them. Just my opinion. I say stick with a company that’s been making chainsaws for a long time, like Echo or Stihl.
If you're looking for professional grade, keep the Stihl, drop the Echo, and add Husquvarna. That said, Echo saws are good, just not to the level of all day everyday commercial use.
I have the 1st generation 60V dewalt saw that came with the 16inch bar. Ran it a few times then replaced the bar and chain with an 18inch Oregon. And it woke that saw up big time. Cut way faster and better. Battery life didn’t change much either. But I mostly cut pine. The few times i cut up oak with it, it cut well but its a battery eating machine. I ran through 3 9ah and 1 6ah batteries in a little over an hour.
I don't know how most people use chainsaws but on my gas saws I always go full throttle so I don't see the issue with it going full on all the time .
Everyone has their preference of what they like.
thank you for this informative video, I'm sure it came to everyone's surprise that the saw isn't variable speed and the issues and limitations of the chain great video 11/10 👍
Thanks!
I run the Dewalt 20" bar on my Greenworks 80v (18") saw. The saw is better for limbin' & buckin' with the longer bar. I buy the 68-drive link chains online from Frawley's Saw Shop. You can get a NON-low kickback 68-link chain if you want. It still has 3/8 LP cutters but NOT low-kickback rakers. Bye the way, if you want an electric saw that runs a standard chain try a Greenworks Commercial 82v (really 80v & 82v batts. are the same voltage). The GW Commercial saws run a .325 x .050" chain.
I'm in the UK, and have been using the biggest saw that dewalt do over here, which is the DCM575, 54 volt, 16 inch bar.
It's been used everyday for general logging for a woodburner.
After 3 years, I'm still telling others not to bother with anything else, it gets used for at least an hour everyday, still on its original power pack, so been re-charged over 1000 times now, and it's still going strong.
It did 73 6x6 cuts in semi hardwood yesterday, which is more than dewalt reckon when new.
DeWalt have just released what looks to be new, bigger version, I'm trying to find the differences between it and the American 60volt version as tested above..
I’m happy with mine so far, I don’t think there is any difference in the 56v and 60v other than marketing in the US
The 20v 12" saw I bought last week is superb on under 8" stuff.
When Husky 61 expires...
Just used this saw to clear some land in TN. With 12AH battery it was plenty to buck and limb up small to medium trees. It’s not powerful enough IMO to cut down large trees (notch and back cut) but once the tree is down it’s a perfect tool especially if you’ve already got dewalt 60v tools/batteries. Wish the chain supplied wasn’t a low profile but you can find alternatives online. Cannot wait for 60v “powerstack” batteries to come out
I felled (notched and back cut) 2000 sq ft of trees up to 14 inch trunks with just the 1w inch dewalt. I ordered this because of the increased power and speed and for a log and stump that are about 3 foot in diameter at the widest. Can't wait to give it a thrash. Arrives any day now. Shipping delays from China...
12* inch
Have used my UK DCM575, 54volt, 16 inch to drop trees upto 28-30 inch, bit slow at times, but I just shove a couple of nylon wedges in to take account of the slow cutting speed.
Always done with fresh sharpened, full cutter chain and spare 6amh power pack just in case the 9amh isn't enough.
Biggest problem I find is the narrow cut, I prefer something a bit chunkier for felling..
With a 20” bar you could fell some pretty serious trees. Don’t see an issue
I’m going to get this saw with the 20” bar and a 15ah. Hopefully battery technology is able to catch up like you said(60v powerstack) I’m sure they will have 18ah or 20ah soon! I’ve got a miter saw and air compressor that use the 60v batteries so a 15ah will be useful.
There is a sticker that tells you the speed . It's on the spot on where you would stick a foot if it is as a gas saw.
powerhead wt on a Stihl 500i is 14.8 lbs @6.7 hp
So I just finished reviewing the 16-in verse the 20-inch. I also was disappointed to see it was not a variable speed trigger on the 20 in. However it seems to be variable speed in fact. Takes a lot of finesse and I noticed the variable speed trigger on the 16-in much for controllable but the 20-in does have a variable speed trigger
Maybe there is a difference in regions, maybe some variations in production, mine doesn’t matter how much you finesse it, it is either on or off, no in between.
What did you use to unload your 24 foot Easter made conveyor when it was delivered
Kubota m6060 tractor with pallet forks, it was right at the lift capacity but with weight on the back of the tractor was able to get it unloaded
I see several comments about the saw being (non) variable speed. In early 2018, I purchased a Greenworks Pro 80 volt 18" saw. The trigger has the tactile feel of variable speed and I'm fairly certain the unit was advertised as variable speed. However, the saw is strictly on/off. Same thing with the 80 volt Pro string trimmer I purchased in the spring of 2018. Curiously, I bought a Greenworks Commercial 82 volt backpack leaf blower in October of 2021. The blower actually is variable speed. BTW - I'll never go back to gas for any of these tools.
I have other saws that are variable that cost a lot less money, I would have thought the DeWalt would have had it but it’s not a deal breaker for me I still really like the saw, for the smaller jobs I tend to go battery a lot, but if I have to use a saw for several hours I’ll go to gas because it’s still more convenient to just add gas and keep going, they only way to do that with battery is to have more batteries and the batteries are over $300 each.
@@WilliamsonRidge this is where I’m at too. Home projects I reach for the battery tools. Bigger projects get combustion tools
Actually own on of these, was disappointed with the bar and chain that came with it. Switched out the 20” bar for a 16” and put a better chain on it. Significantly improved the performance of saw.
Only issue I have with saw is the bar loosens off too easily. Other that love the saw, have two 12 amp batteries and I can easily buck up a two full length trees on one battery, this is on full length hard wood trees.
This is not a commercial grade saw, but damn I am pleasantly surprised by how handy it is to get away from gas.
I may try some different chains to see how they perform too, I like the handiness of the battery saws but for the bigger jobs or all day cutting still find myself going back to the gas saws.
Is it possible to fit a longer bar and more aggressive chain? Can a sprocket for normal chain be ordered or adapted?
Don’t think sprockets will work from any gas saw, as far as chain I had someone comment they put a none low profile on and it was to tall, it cut into the plastic cover, could maybe work with some mods, like cutting the plastic for clearance, but me personally I don’t like doing stuff to make it work I’d rather have it fit correct and just use the correct sizes
@@WilliamsonRidge I also noticed that especially when you put pressure on, quite a lot of the chips were spitting out of the top front of the sprocket cover instead of out of the rear bottom. That's a sign of the cover being too small and not designed well (or clog at the rear, but I don't think that was the issue here). If it's that bad on elm, imagine how bad it would be cutting softwoods. There needs to be a bigger a$$ for pooping out all those chips.
Yeah especially if you tried noodling with it.
How much bar oil was used during this introductory test?
Not much only a few ounces
More Torque means it will move forward with big power and not just spin. Something could be spining but it has no power to move forward thus it is impact driver if you put force into it , then it will go through it very good actually but can damage things but impact driver has small spin and this chain saw means exactly that if it has more torque it will really cut through it but its spin is not bigger. The voltage produces more spin the current produces more push, and in this case to cut you also need to move to cut it so yes it is top stuff. It wont steal that is for sure.,,
I would like to see it run continuously most of the day just stopping to change batteries. Of course you’ll have to take a few breaks.
I've ran quite a few cordless saws, and although high chain speed is nice for faster cutting, it also comes with the problem of low torque. The saws with slower chain speed have much better gear ratios. I find it very annoying when I'm pushing slightly to hard and a saw keeps wanting to stall out. I'd much rather prefer a slower chain speed with lots of torque. The Milwaukee M18 saw is a great example of a saw that cuts great and really fast as long as you don't apply to much force. But then you have saws like this and the Greenworks 80v saw that just refuse to stall out, even when your really trying. I've been watching some videos on the Stihl MSA 300, and it looks like a really nice saw, but it's not cheap. Really the best saw for the job is probably going to be the one that you already have batteries for. Nowadays, all these manufacturers make some pretty great saws. Technology has come a long way. I personally feel the Greenworks saws are the best bang for the buck. They go onsale all the time, the quality is pretty good, and the power per dollar is very good.
I haven’t tried the green works but have heard good things about them
@@WilliamsonRidgeI have both. I feel the EGO's are better built; but I've yet to have a Greenworks fail.
I do agree that for a given power and size; the Greenworks are much more economical.
Great chainsaw. How do you think it compares to an Ego 18 inch chainsaw?
I’ve heard really good things with the Ego, I don’t think you could go wrong either way, so one could make the decision based on battery platform if you are already invested in one of the brands stay with it so you could interchanged batteries between tools
project farm made a comparison with all of the battery saws and the conclusion was that dewalt had the best battery chainsaw out right now.
@@ghmsadam and he's a Milwaukee Homer so that's saying something.
@@ghmsadam He did not test the (much more expensive) Husquvarna top handle arborist's climbing saw. Stihl has one in Europe like that too, but not in the States yet. Those easily destroy these home-gamer saws, but you pay a much different price.
Ego doesn't compare, battery overheats on the saw, blowers and trimmers. They have great specs, great triggers with variable speed, good balance but the batteries are the flaw. I literally couldn't limb and buck a 12" poplar without the 7.5 ah battery dying and overheating multiple times. Returned it and sold all my ego equipment. I really wanted to like it because it has so much potential but the batteries are the weak link.
Mine keeps throwing the chain, no matter how I tighten or loosen the chain tension. Any ideas?
It may have bent a link in the chain the first time it came off and now as soon as it gets in a bind or out of adjustment it naught be catching and making it jump of, I had one like that it was actually noticeable when it went around the tip of the bar you could see it didn’t fit just right when it went around it, like it lifted just a bit as it went around because the link wasn’t flexible
@@WilliamsonRidge found it binding, so I’m just gonna buy a new chain and bar. Ty so much.
Will a smaller 12ah/3ah battery fit inside?
yes. any 60v battery will fit
Yes that’s what came with mine
Yes I have a 9ah that came with my 7-1/4 inch 60v circular saw and it works fine
much over 100 % energy efficient
Only problem with this saw I see mostly is the battery heating up to fast. To the point where it stop running and you have to wait before starting up again.
Yup that is seemingly a problem with all battery saws especially in hot weather
THAT WAS FUNNY YOU CUT THE CAMERA OFF REALL QUICK WHEN YOU GOT THE SAW JAMED. THE SAW SHUT OFF WHEN YOU PUT TOO MUCH PRESSURE ON THE MOTOR SO YOU WON'T DAMAGE THE MOTOR FOR SAFTY.
It’s funny you thought I got the saw jammed
I never see anyone felling a tree with it. Would love to see if it’s worth for clearing up trees that are in the way
Stay tuned I’ll try to do some felling with it soon it definitely is capable.
When you make a face cut, you of course need an angle cut. This is best done with a full chisel chain. Do any of these have full chisel chains?
No, all have a LP chain.
@@WilliamsonRidge I have a HT130 pole saw with an odd 3/8 "pico" chain; is that considered low profile? Also is there such thing as low profile chain that is still full chisel? Full chisel means that the working corner is a right angle corner and not a curve or angle. I don't think I have anything to reference so that's why I'm asking.
@@happycamper6352I have a bunch of 3/8" lp full chisel chains.
I think its built for torque the makita is alot faster. Chain speed but they flip chains
Love mine got 2 15ah battery I think the tool is designed so you don't over tightening the nuts it does dig in your hand but better than stripping threads just sharpened chain with a dremel first time it's razor sharp dimond bits
Does yours have yhe 3000w motor like my 54v
I disagree with your disclaimer about the chain speed. I think it IS slower than most of the other big saws.
The big EGOs and Greenworks fairly scream when running at full speed. BUT! they are also rather easy to stall.
I disagree with that, I have two 20” Ego chainsaws and they are not at all easy to stall, and will cut circles around the DeWalt, I’m going to try to have a comparison soon
I was going by your demonstration. I didn't mean that the Dewalt can cut faster than the EGO. I have no experience using a Dewalt. I based my comment on watching you and listening to the saw; and was very impressed by how much you were able to lean on the Dewalt without having it stall. I don't think I can do that with my CSX5000.
Save your money buy the 20v put a bigger bar and run batteries of your choice.
made short work of those hardwood logs
Yeah it has tons of power
𝙥𝙧𝙤𝙢𝙤𝙨𝙢
As your tentioner cogs stripped yet they are junk got one cant get cogs anywere designed fault
I haven’t had any problem with mine
It's not variable speed? I don't like that.
Yeah I would have thought it would be variable, that’s probably the biggest con I have with it.
@@WilliamsonRidge Exactly.
I don't know how much cutting you guys have done with a chainsaw but I'd say 95 percent of the time I cut at full throttle very rarely would I need variable speed.
Oh by the way I've cut hundreds of cord of wood and fallen many hundreds of trees also.
It’s all preference of what someone likes, I like a variable speed
👍🪚🔥
Tahta beya kalas çıkarsaydın çok daha kârlıydın
Please reply to this comment with your opinion on the following: "D'Walt" or "Dee-Walt"?
Well, in my area, and the folks im around typically say it as Dee-Walt, I’ve heard Dwalt from others, I think it is a matter of the area u are in, I would say the correct way is D’Walt
@@WilliamsonRidge I don't have a preference, just trying to get an idea of how many people say it one way vs. another.
This is not heavy for a 20 in saw idk why he said it was.
I said it was my first impression
@@WilliamsonRidge I understand I just purchased the saw it doesn't seem heavy for a 20 in saw it actually seems pretty balanced but I have the 9ah battery dont know if that's much or any difference in weight.
You do realize this thing weighs more than a Stihl Ms271 with a 20inch chain and bar right? Ms271 only weighs around 12pounds this thing weighs over 17pounds so yeah it is heavy and heavier than a gas saw with a 20inch bar and Chain depending on the one you're talking about. It's even heavier than a Ms291 which comes in at 12.3 pounds. I can go on and on its even heavier than a $1300 Ms462 with a 20inch bar and Chain which comes in at 13.2.
This battery saw comes in at over 17pounds so it is definitely heavy!
Not a fan of battery powered saws myself
I think they have their place but not ready to completely replace gas just yet
My use case has been keeping one in my Jeep for camping and road clearing, this way I don't have to deal with gas in in the cab. Was using a Sawzall with a pruning blade for this before- big improvement.
I own many tools. There’s a reason why only one of those tools is a DeWalt. I’ve never been very impressed by them. Just my opinion. I say stick with a company that’s been making chainsaws for a long time, like Echo or Stihl.
Really it's pretty op in my opinion.
If you're looking for professional grade, keep the Stihl, drop the Echo, and add Husquvarna. That said, Echo saws are good, just not to the level of all day everyday commercial use.