I got these for almost a year now and yes, theyre amazing (im from czech). As all equipment theres pros and cons. Well.. only one con for me actually and thats the fact that if climb has a penny sized foothold, then youre done there. For pros its obviously health state of my foot, theres no horn growing on top of my toe knuckle, theres no pain. Theres no edge to wear off, im still wearing first pair with no repair after a year of climbig (once a week), theyre slabs kings and volume holders, i dont remmber what was the last time i slipped as i can really feel whats going on under the foot, that applies to all holds but on slabs or volumes the difference is massive. Also I really think they have improved my technique quite a lot. Mainly first couple of months as youre toe is not strong enough to stand comfortably on small edges, you really start to find new ways to do stuff, im really effective with hooks bcse of that. Also it improved my overall balance as you use all fingers in the foot. About sizes its really true. I got 43/44 foot and im using 41 size and you can still walk in them. I did 11 hour via ferrata with them with no taking off. Well that is sort of a issue :D theyre so comfy that you dont take them off and then they start to smell real real bad. I had to resort to washing them every so often and im not a person with smelly feet.
If you have a store with stock decently close, try on different models. The shape, or last, of the shoe makes a massive difference to comfort. Even in "aggressive" down turned shoes that I have my toes are not being smashed together because I got shoes with a toe box shape that matches my feet.
Thank GOD! I've been into the barefoot shoes lifestyle for 2 years plus now, and have made some reviews about Vivobarefoot on my channel even. I went for my first climbin about 3 weeks back, and got injured from the EXTREMELY CRAMPED shoes. Like an actual injury. My metatarsals or the fascia under them have only JUST recovered. Told my friend who introduced me that I'm not going back till I'm either allowed to climb with my Vivos or if I find barefoot climbing shoes. Thanks so much for this!
Yes for beginers. That's why they advise you to put on a pair or confortable climbing shoes. You can even put socks on, it should be fun to be on the wall 24/7 for beginers. Other people buy shoes with a strap so that they can take them off inbetween boulders and be barefoot most of the time. 100% for a comfortable climbing shoe, but when you need performance you do you.
I got a pair and they're awesome. They completely suit my style of climbing and feel like I'm climbing in Vivobarefoot but with a lot more grip. For sizing, I'm a EU42/ UK 8 in most shoes, and the size 40 works well for me
This is just what I've been looking for! Hate the fact that I use barefoot shoes to heal my feet and then when I go climbing I destroy all that progress...
@@hypnogri5457 my dude, literally look around the climbing gym at the people with bare feet. You will see bunions at a rate normally found in a nursing home. Just because you haven't gotten bunions doesn't mean other people don't.
@@JakeLeary prevalence among climbers is extremely high, but I doubt that all of those affected wear barefoot shoes outside of the gym and make sure to take off their shoes after each climb. Barefoot shoes and proper feet care would probably make that incredibly high statistic sound more reasonable
@@JakeLearydo you have any pieces of research that cover the hypothesis of climbing shoes correlating with the formation of bunions? Otherwise you really shouldn’t start fear mongering a foot shape and climbing shoes to sell a product. Maybe promote your product for a new feel and design rather than, “climbing shoes cause bunions and pain!Buy these shoes and you’ll never have to worry about that!”. That is a dangerous narrative to push for a sport that already struggles with body image.
@@Resilient.Adventures well.. bunions prevalence is over 50% (normally its 30% I think) when it comes to climbers, so that is evidence enough. But we were talking about progress (barefoot shoe) being meaningfully undone by climbing and not damage in feet of normal people without barefoot shoes
For the past year, I have been wearing barefoot shoes as a daily and now i have been climbing barefoot as much as i can. Its nice to know that there is a wide toebox climbing shoe.
Just wanted to provide some feedback. I get the point you're trying to make but the climbs you used to demonstrate the effectiveness of your new shoe doesn't make too much sense to me. The yellow overhang has footchips only at the start of the problem, where the wall is still relatively vert. On the overhanging section of the wall, both the feet and hands are quite large minus that one footchip to the right but the left foot is still good so I don't see how this shows that the Saltics is good for overhangs. I'd also like to see what the Saltics look like on more aggressive overhangs (>45°) as well as roof climbs, where foot stabbing, toe hooks and heel hooks may play more of a part. For the slab which you were unable to start, I get that you felt closer to the move on the Saltics but the only difference is that you reached your hand out in the Saltics and didn't in your Scarpas. Please correct me if I'm wrong but it doesn't look like you're close to sticking the move regardless as your hips are immediately falling away from the wall as your hand makes contact with the hold. For the blue slab, it looked less like the shoe was why the start was hard as opposed to just not having found the body position to make the move. Once you found it, it looked pretty similar with both shoes. For the slipping of the foot, it makes perfect sense to me that a painful downsized stiff shoe would be harder to smear in comparison to a comfortable soft shoe. The Saltics looks to be a great soft smearing shoe but I'd like to see how it looks when standing on small footholds (e.g. 4mm) and more aggressive overhang. All this criticism aside, I'd like to thank you for bringing attention to these shoes as I haven't heard of them before. I also agree and believe that not everyone needs to aggressively downsize their shoes and hurt their feet, which I'm glad you're bringing attention to.
That's fair. I made my conclusions based on months of climbing and only filmed a few climbs for comparison. I did not want to film any more comparisons because of how much I despise the tighter shoes, and I donated them to the gym as soon as I got a few clips. The yellow overhang is not a good example, but the conclusion is based on other routes with small foot chips as well. I used them on the 45 wall but my gym actually doesn't have anything more overhanging than that (biggest downside to the gym for sure). On the slab I was unable to start, I wasn't able to reach my right hand out because I had to keep my weight on that hand, I wasn't able to pull myself into the wall with the left hand like I could with the Saltics. But no I was not particularly close to landing it with the Saltics. 4mm I believe is smaller than any foot chips they have in my gym and I know that for outdoor you need to use foot chips that size and smaller. This would be the biggest downfall of the Saltics.
It does not look like your footwork is "heinous." Thank you for making this video, I do wear barefoot shoes for walking around but still developed bunions from wearing tight climbing shoes. I'd like to see another follow up video to see long-term effects after using the shoes if you don't mind!
I fully agree with the statement that the „aggressiv“ performance shoes are actually healthier for your big toe, compared to those „beginner friendly“ shoes with a centric tip. I was having serious problems to the point where I couldn’t put any pressure on my big toe due to immense pain. Switching to a highly asymmetric performance shoe allowed the big toe to be in a natural position and eventually it recovered. Unfortunately, non of the shoe shops or gym bros seem to understand that.
I've always climbed with at least 2 pairs of shoes. 1 comfy beginner pair and 1 or more performance ones. I'd only whip out the performance ones when the comfy ones just didnt cut it. After climbing a few years now I almost never need the performance ones anymore, even when climbing at my max grade. For me as long as the beginner shoes have decent rubber I can make them work on almost anything.
I agree with this sentiment so much. I've been climbing in comfy shoes 95% of the time and only pulling out more aggressive shoes when needed. Also my comfy shoes are way cheaper so that's an added bonus. For most people on most climbs more aggressive shoes are not needed.
I just got new shoes last weekend at a random gym as my shape does not allow for ordering online. I also have wide feet but the "Butora Rubicon" fit perfectly snug and secure! I got them as small but still very comfortable as possible and they feel like a great force around my feet with no pain at all. Do recommend
That's interesting that you recommend high asymmetry. While people typically associate it with discomfort, I've also noticed that it has reduced my toe crowding compared to symmetrical shoes of any width/downturn. Further, I find that the downturn on the shoe doesn't matter too much just as long as the rand is flexible enough to flex with your toes. For that reason, I prefer wearing high asymmetry, high downturn shoes that have a soft and sock-like rand. For indoors, that is perfect for my now messed up feet due to wearing the former for extended periods of time.
I’m a big fan of this video and I hope the barefoot trend catches on in the rock climbing community, like it has in the running community. The Huaorani people climb trees from the time they’re toddlers, and have strong, well-developed toes and feet. Their muscled feet look like hands and help them climb. Westerners didnt grow up like that, so our feet are much weaker, less dexterous and prone to deformities (bunions, etc). Climbers are dismissive of barefoot climbing shoes because their feet aren’t strong enough to be used effectively. We have no idea what we’re missing.
It's unfortunate that the foot is so often overlooked as being trainable. Hopefully people who train other parts of their bodies to high performance can imagine the potential once they are reminded that the foot is muscle and bone, too.
@@shanybody more like monkeys, because monkeys also climb rocks. Rhesus monkeys are found on mountains in Japan, and Gelada monkeys live exclusively on mountains. So I figure they climb rocks just fine.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but my initial intuitive reaction is: Isn't climbing actually barefoot where your toes can move in the way you're describing (like hands) completely different than climbing in "barefoot" shoes? It's like the difference between bare hands and hands wearing thin mittens...
@@deschain1910 that’s fair, but would you rather climb with thin mittens or with a cast? Barefoot shoes won’t be as free as climbing without any footwear, but ideally they’ll allow your feet to splay and bend in a natural way, allowing all the intrinsic muscles in your foot to work together rather than atrophy. Strong feet are important to maintaining a strong kinetic chain, which not only influences your balance but your overall health.
to be fair bro, your footwork is absolutely heinous. you're wearing oversized shoes and compensating with your physical strength and your takeaway is that the flat shoe is better somehow is completely biased. not saying these things are useless, but your argument is very weak.
Imagine trying to stand on a chip hold without shoes on, thats what its like wearing a soft wide toebox climbing shoe. Regardless of footwork skill you aren't going to be able to precisely balance on a footchip without a super stiff and ergonomically poor shoe. This is the reason why I train in scarpa veloce shoes half a size too large but send my projects in very tight evolv shamans.
both of you entirely missed his point. He literally says in the beginning that downturned aggressive shoes are superior for high-end climbing. He says that he climbs V5 and V6 in the gym so he does not need high-end shoes. His entire purpose for the argument is that they are healthier for the foot, in which case he is entirely correct. Anything that pushes the big toe inward is not anatomically correct and depending on how much it is done leads to varying levels of problems. So don't attack the dude's climbing ability, and don't have the IQ of a gnat and miss his entire purpose of posting this which is about FOOT HEALTH, not performance climbing.
You just got me to buy them. I've been transitioning to more relaxing climbing shoes recently. (I also walk a lot barefoot and I don't use non-barefoot shoes anymore.) I still have my old performance climbing shoes, but I never use them anymore. At my level they don't make a difference anyway, they only lower the quality of my time spend in the climbing gym. I'm interested how the Saltics compare to the other relaxing shoes. If I ever become more performance oriented again, I would probably take a pair of performance shoes and a pair of relaxing shoes to the gym and only put on the performance ones for hard climbs with small footholds where they do make a difference.
I have properly wide feet: also a long distance runner that prefers to run in basically moccasins. Any suggestion of anything made by scarpa is a straight up joke to me, I have tried multiple lines from them and sizes ranging from US 9 to 12.5, and every single one is so narrow that it leaves bruises if I actually try to climb in them. Again, I run 10-30 miles in shoes that are 4mm thick (before I wear them down), I do not have tender/sensitive feet. La Sportiva is even worse. What climbing shoe companies consider "wide" would be laughable if it wasn't causing so much long term damage to people. Right now I climb in a pair of red chili fusion VCRs and they're on their 3rd resole because finding shoes is such a struggle. The new "oasis" (which is really an edelrid shoe) is narrower, but almost usable. Also the 9.5 is a bit tight while the 10 feels like a clown shoe. Here's the thing: I'm only climbing somewhere in the 5.12s, it's not like I'm setting records or that my income depends on my performance. If I want to climb harder the shoes are rarely my problem. there are guys that can climb that hard in a pair of Crocs. I'll take a "good enough" shoe that is comfortable without hesitation because it means I'll spend a lot more time climbing and actually get better. Here to have fun, not max out my current shitty abilities through shoe technology. I've also found the basic yellow butoras to work, not because they're actually wide enough but because they're so soft that they conform to my feet. If I can figure out what size I actually am for these shoes I'll try them out, or if there's a local dealer I can try (or mail them back when they end up being 3 sizes too small because also climbing shoe companies have zero consistency)
This past summer I've done my best to wear shoes as little as possible, the longest was a full month without wearing shoes and then only a few hours with shoes on before taking them off again. I've gained so much more grip already, actually using my toes to stabilize myself while walking stairs and stuff. Not at the point where my normal shoes don't fit anymore, but my nice fancy office shoes (that are extra thin) are getting very tight. It's really just dumb how we as a society let this become the norm.
i have wide feet that measure to exactly size 44.5 and my favorite shoe right now is the lasportiva mantra in size 46. nice and snug on the width but just barely crimps my toes. that and the super thin rubber allows me to really flex my toes and mold my foot to holds. really nice as i have very strong feet, absolutely not recommended for people with regular feet used to being in "supportive" shoes all day
Thanks for making these videos! If you stumble upon a brand making a wide toe box skate shoe, please make a video as well. Zero drop soles are typical for skate shoes and the sole needs its height and stiffness to protect the foot but I couldn't find any extra wide toe box skate shoes. I ended up buying half size up New Balance Jamie Foy 306 and they're great, but still... Would be nice to buy a shoe that fits even better.
Nice! I even think if we climb barefoot from a young age it has more benefits over regular climbing shoes. I notice some holds I can do better barefeet, because you can use your toes to hook also. Sometimes the sweaty foot helps even more. Imagine doing it from a very young age, with other feet exercises. You would have very strong toes to stand on, withstand the hard rocks and better grip, almost like hands. Barefoot Charles is one the climbers that does this. Its unfortunate that you cannot climb barefoot in almost evert gym. They say "hygiene" and stuff, but you dont put your hands in your mouth after climbing I hope. We need to stop the bullshit and go all natural. In nature you don't always have climbing shoes with you, but you always have your barefeet. Be trained for it.
Hello fellow pipeworks climber! I mostly use solutions but have been thinking about getting some comfier shoes even though I’m pretty used to them. I max out at around 13a/v7 and find the aggressive shoes are just not necessary for many routes. Those dual text sloped footholds are killer, but that’s about it.
Oh hey! Well the Saltics are fully maxed out on the comfy spectrum. The smooth/glossy footholds aren’t usually that bad with them because you can smear above hitting the texture of the wall itself.
Dude, you are not going to get bunions from the few hours you have your feet in climbing shoes, you get it from the days of walking around in too narrow shoes. Climbing is very low impact on your feet. These shoes do more harm to your technique than they are doing you any good in toe strength. You are now smearing small footholds, pushing yourself off the wall, and making you rely more on your upper body strength than pushing yourself up and standing on your toes. You are in fact not even using your toe strength anymore to stand up, because your toes have collapsed outwards in all your examples. I'm not saying toe strength doesn't play a role in climbing, on the contrary. It's very important on slabs. But nowadays you barely find slabs, especially not in the gym. For me, these shoes only fill a niche for climbers that focus on outdoor slabs, or climbers with a medical condition in their feet. It won't do anything for your 'feet development', do that on more impact related movements like walking/hiking/running or just getting around the house.
La Sportiva has made No edge shoes, were you are smearring small footholds, instead og using the edge of the shoe. And it works. I do agree with you a lot here tho, but smearing vs edge is actually a good convesation!
def wear what makes you happy, but your logic is flawed IMO. Your footwork with the big toebox shoes are not helping you climb from what I can see. You should try a set of moccs that fit snug, not tight, if you want to build foot strength. Soft shoes make you use you feet much more, but if they are not tight enough, your foot WILL roll inside the shoe, which is absolutely detrimental to performing at any level. I think you never learned to use you feet properly and these are allowing you to understand there is more to footwork than just edging....because you cant edge in those at all from what I can see, so your forcing the learning. This isn't to say its a bad thing for your progression, but you will 100% find the limit of that shoe very quickly.... off the top of my head, I suggest Funky Tut (V3) at the milks to compare these with "normal" style shoes.
How do these compare to the scarpa veloces sizing wise? I wear oversized veloces (my big toe is straight in them) and only a few really tiny foot holds give me problems. My biggest gripe with the veloces is how much they press in the big toe, so the saltic shoes seem like a great alternative!
Miura vs and evolv aggro 2 wrecked my big toes, now I wear slightly undersized skwama and I'm way better, nowadays I value comfort more than performance.
Interesting! I enjoy my women's Scarpa Veloce for their wider toe box and thin, highly flexible sole. Did find it a bit painful and heavy on the toes to get used to. But with these my second toe next to my big toe get the space they need. And they smear like nothing else. Did you ever try these? I wonder how they compare. I have no experience with barefoot shoes at all.
for that price, i'm just going to climb in an old pair of undersized xero shoes and see how it feels. of course it doesn't have heel rubber and durability might be an issue, but just to experiment with the concept before i commit to it
I found that barefoot shoes like the BeLenka trailwalkers were not a substitute for climbing but the Saltics are a complete replacement (for me who prioritizes getting in shape and fun over just performance). The Saltics have grippier rubber and stiffer soles than Xeros
Ah no demonstration of tiny incut feel. As a gym warm up shoe or for more slopey feet I could see these doing ok. Maybe also easier multipitch. Outdoors I feel these would hold people back on a lot of things near their limit. I can think of loads of 7A ish boulders where actually precise footwork was required.
The Veloce is similar to the “performance” shoes I listed in the video description but nothing like the Saltics, the Saltics are very wide, like a barefoot shoe last
Not really making a good point when your regular shoe just looks like the typical beginner's shoe/rental shoe rather than an actual performance shoe. But honestly I quite fancy the idea of barefoot climbing, but I would much rather do it just that way, barefeet. It's just not allowed in gyms. I don't think any barefoot style climbing shoe is ever gonna come close to the "ergonomical" benefits of actually going barefoot as you can't really crimp your toes on holds if it's encased in rubber. But climbing barefoot requires some mad toe strength and pain tolerance though.
Wait… …I only just put 2+2 together - you’ve been popping up for me for barefoot stuff for a while, but you were doing a bunch of OneWheel stuff on another channel before, right?
Fun vídeo, but stating any thing like "makes your feet stronger" is simply crazy. The Best climbers in The World are always looking for that 1% improv, if this way was the Best I am sure Janja would be climbing like this. But may be the Best for you and that is great. More people climbing is always better.
It sounds like you made the same mistake I did and just bought the wrong shoes for your foot shape and also poorly fit them. I started on the scarpa origins and wish I never bought them. Because of the stiff full sole and lack of space for the toes to lift up, they should NOT be downsized much at all. Conversely, If you have a bunch of extra space, the shoes will just literally be in your own way of even trying to use your toe on small holds and you'll just build a crutch, like you said you were, of trying to smear on top of everything. This is just terrible for footwork and will hold you back, if you care (fine if you don't but at least be honest about it). You also mention how the "bunion problem" can be from people not picking a shoe that fits their foot but make no mention of an effort to do just that and get a better fitting shoe that doesn't have to be 15 sizes too big to be comfortable. From the sounds of it you just like a softer shoe (to "build toe strength" even though any proper fitting shoe on small edges will do the same thing) so try on something like the Veloce. It's basically a sock with climbing rubber on it. Great for smearing and forming to your feet to be comfy and have zero support to them at all which will be perfect for trying to support body weight on just one toe for you.
@ I’m just starting out climbing so I wasn’t sure how much shoes would be. I now understand hoe expensive they are! I ended up buying the shoes you recommended
As someone who has discovered climbing and barefoot shoes roughly at the same time, this seems perfect for me. I'll need to wear out my current shoes before I can consider these, but I'm very conscious of how my climbing shoes over time might mess up my feet. That's part of why I wear toe spacers along with my barefoot shoes a lot of the time, to force good toe posture and teaching myself to engage my toes more when walking to try and counteract the effects of 2-3 2-hour climbing sessions per week. Great to see that something like this exists! One question though: how are their edges? With very soft shoes I'm always curious as to how well their soles are able to grab onto small edges, especially as my main gym has smooth walls, so smearing is far less useful than on rock or with textured walls.
Mmm smooth walls would make these less appealing, but it’s mostly the slab where I smear, I’m not smearing on any overhanging stuff. The edges are a bit soft for foot chips, and you’ll definitely be struggling/disappointed at first like I was, but like I said after a couple months I was only climbing in these, I’ll never go back now.
you dont need barefoot climbing shoes, with your poor foot placement you can do the same with crocs. If you want to keep healthy joints climb easy route with any soft shoe/crocs
No, I’ve tried in other barefoot shoes including the BeLenka Trailwalkers and they were absolutely not a replacement for my climbing shoes. The Saltics are similar in terms of the space inside the shoe, but the rubber on the bottom is much thicker/stiffer, the rubber is very grippy and have a proper heel for heel hooking.
v5 in eu is like V2-v3 in Asia, just saying. It’s good to say you hate tight shoes, but it’s stupid to say wearing flat climbing shoes can make one climb better, specially as an inexperienced climber But I’m more convinced that you create this whole content just to sell theses shoes, do it for the bread, understandable. Coz even you would know how ridiculous it sounds
I agree, I feel like tiny indoor foot holds are only made to sell shoes, and destroy feet, nothing to do with skills and enjoying the sport. I thought about the same analogy with device we would wear like hooks to help the hand grip tiny crimps, they would not help the sport or your strength and would become mandatory. This week I bought my first real climbing shoes, I normally wear 42 size soes, I had to buy a 45 to not have unbearable pain wearing them. I found this so ridiculous. I feel like pointy, rigid shoes are just a cheat that became mandatory because of the indoor route setter using impossible foot chips. My personal advice is to stay avay from boulders that require cheat shoes and enjoy the rest. I would love the community to grow out of this perversion.
Tiny indoor footholds more closely mimic what might be found outdoors and they are more demanding on your technique. Ultimately, using smaller or awkward footholds will improve your climbing. It really isn't a conspiracy. Think of shoes as a tool to be used, they give a certain performance:wear ratio before needing to be replaced. It sucks that budgets for resoles and new shoes will affect what you can do but that's the same in a lot of sports equipment. I hope you found a shoe that fit your foot well and didn't have to go big just to get it on without pain. Shape really makes a huge difference and it's worth trying lots of different manufacturers shoes. When I try on shoes I never expect them to be comfortable to walk around in, then match comfort to climb duration and you should be fine. Good luck!
@@dmizzle73 what you say is what most climber think but I feel that they are coerced by the feeling of belonging to the group and they fail to imagine a world of climbing without feet destroying shoes. I feel naturally like an outsider so I don't care and I find that the arms race between tiny holds and shoes makes no sense indoor (I repeat indoor) Outdoor it's different because natural condition and competition to climb harder grade makes sense. Indoor all the routes are artificial, we can make them what ever we want and we don't need to mimic precisely outdoor climbing at all. We can make the foothold challenging without requiring pointy rigid shoes. It's like the debate with anatomy in climbing, should competition favor tall people or not, I feel that they shouldn't. You want a tall sport : go volley and basket, or high/long jump. In climbing, no morphology should have any advantage, because the challenges don't need to be there and can be in any climber characteristic, ideally more technical and strength based than morphological. To conclude my point, it's true that some boulder don't require specific shoes, many do and it makes the sport less natural and about equipment. I used very soft beginner shoes for a year and I initially found it very hard to stand on toes on small holds, eventually my feet became way stronger and I still don't trust small chips but I can take them, without using real good shoes. but at the very hardest grade, I can't hold them with flexible shoes, so harder grade is only attainable by buying augmenting equipment which defeats the sport's spirit in my opinion. We should aim at improving ourselves, not using a device to replace our abilities.
@@raph151515 I'm nearly 40 - I've been climbing for 20 years. Peer pressure isn't a factor for me. I saw a few contemporaries go down the smaller is better route rarely causing injuries (though did see bursitis) but more often just unneccessary discomfort. My goal is to climbing better on all angles and terrain. A lot of which means using the feet to their maximum potential. In the margins I will try different shoes with occasionally looser or tighter fit and degree of being downturned but mainly I try to use the best tool for the job. That will carry into my technique and ultimately highest level of climbing. I'd urge you to consider fit and softness more than size. My indoor training shoe is a La Sportiva Theory, it fits my foot well and I can wear it for 10-15mins without issue. I couldn't do that in other LaS of the same size so I didn't buy them. You can use inferior equipment if performance isn't your main goal. But, it's a bit like a ballet dancer not wearing ballet shoes - you can do some of the moves but you're missing out on some inherent part of the activity. Eventually, if you want to progress further you'll have to reconsider your approach. In the meantime, allow everyone else who wants to train indoors for outdoor climbs their training apparatus (it was why indoor gyms opened in the first place after all).
@@raph151515 What you're failing to understand here is that indoor climbing is not a separate sport: it is meant to mimic and prepare people for outdoor climbing, which has very tiny footholds. Most experienced climbers climb outdoor seasonally, and indoor to train. It's fine that this isn't what you personally want to do, but the idea that the tiny footholds are some kind of exclusive in-group idea is crazy, it's design to train people for outdoor climbing, which is what many of us want to do. Re: "using a device to replace our abilities", it is physically impossible to climb elite routes without climbing shoes. Period. It's not even close to possible. We would just have to give up climbing those routes without the shoes.
@@geometerfpv2804 actually there is nothing making this a rule. Things have evolved, now many boulder setting styles are completely different then rock climbing like dynos, coordo, ultra physical with jugs, slabs which are more prevalent in indoor bouldering, probably because generally rock climbing is more dangerous and indoor is more controlled. Yes outdoor climbers need a place to train but I think that indoor lead is more adapted for that. A big part of indoor bouldering is about something different than rock climbing and I feel that the footwear debate haven't even started and it will eventually come. Even in the Olympics and world cups feature many boulders (even though not the majority) that don't require ultra tight and rigid shoe but the way the competition is organized, it's difficult to have multiple shoes and change after the timer starts. The time of mostly crimps and chips is gone. It would be nice to see more boulders that don't require these shoes and more manufacturer with offering that value ergonomics more
I got these for almost a year now and yes, theyre amazing (im from czech). As all equipment theres pros and cons. Well.. only one con for me actually and thats the fact that if climb has a penny sized foothold, then youre done there. For pros its obviously health state of my foot, theres no horn growing on top of my toe knuckle, theres no pain. Theres no edge to wear off, im still wearing first pair with no repair after a year of climbig (once a week), theyre slabs kings and volume holders, i dont remmber what was the last time i slipped as i can really feel whats going on under the foot, that applies to all holds but on slabs or volumes the difference is massive. Also I really think they have improved my technique quite a lot. Mainly first couple of months as youre toe is not strong enough to stand comfortably on small edges, you really start to find new ways to do stuff, im really effective with hooks bcse of that. Also it improved my overall balance as you use all fingers in the foot. About sizes its really true. I got 43/44 foot and im using 41 size and you can still walk in them. I did 11 hour via ferrata with them with no taking off. Well that is sort of a issue :D theyre so comfy that you dont take them off and then they start to smell real real bad. I had to resort to washing them every so often and im not a person with smelly feet.
Hi, are you using socks in this shoes?
@@marsec-1 hi, im not. But after a year of wearing i could fit them in, if i need a really tight fit :)
Who uses climbing shoes for via ferrata?
Those terrible climbing shoes are the one thing that have kept me from starting climbing. this is exactly what ii've been looking for. thank you
Great to hear! Let me know how it goes!
I agree with your points, love climbing just for fun, but I hate the shoes! And getting stronger feet instead of pain is even better.
If you have a store with stock decently close, try on different models. The shape, or last, of the shoe makes a massive difference to comfort. Even in "aggressive" down turned shoes that I have my toes are not being smashed together because I got shoes with a toe box shape that matches my feet.
Thank GOD! I've been into the barefoot shoes lifestyle for 2 years plus now, and have made some reviews about Vivobarefoot on my channel even.
I went for my first climbin about 3 weeks back, and got injured from the EXTREMELY CRAMPED shoes. Like an actual injury. My metatarsals or the fascia under them have only JUST recovered. Told my friend who introduced me that I'm not going back till I'm either allowed to climb with my Vivos or if I find barefoot climbing shoes.
Thanks so much for this!
You’re welcome! Glad to help out
Yes for beginers. That's why they advise you to put on a pair or confortable climbing shoes. You can even put socks on, it should be fun to be on the wall 24/7 for beginers. Other people buy shoes with a strap so that they can take them off inbetween boulders and be barefoot most of the time. 100% for a comfortable climbing shoe, but when you need performance you do you.
I got a pair and they're awesome. They completely suit my style of climbing and feel like I'm climbing in Vivobarefoot but with a lot more grip. For sizing, I'm a EU42/ UK 8 in most shoes, and the size 40 works well for me
This is just what I've been looking for! Hate the fact that I use barefoot shoes to heal my feet and then when I go climbing I destroy all that progress...
climbing won't revert your progress. 12h a week of climbing in small shoes will not affect your toe shape
@@hypnogri5457 my dude, literally look around the climbing gym at the people with bare feet. You will see bunions at a rate normally found in a nursing home. Just because you haven't gotten bunions doesn't mean other people don't.
@@JakeLeary prevalence among climbers is extremely high, but I doubt that all of those affected wear barefoot shoes outside of the gym and make sure to take off their shoes after each climb. Barefoot shoes and proper feet care would probably make that incredibly high statistic sound more reasonable
@@JakeLearydo you have any pieces of research that cover the hypothesis of climbing shoes correlating with the formation of bunions? Otherwise you really shouldn’t start fear mongering a foot shape and climbing shoes to sell a product. Maybe promote your product for a new feel and design rather than, “climbing shoes cause bunions and pain!Buy these shoes and you’ll never have to worry about that!”. That is a dangerous narrative to push for a sport that already struggles with body image.
@@Resilient.Adventures well.. bunions prevalence is over 50% (normally its 30% I think) when it comes to climbers, so that is evidence enough. But we were talking about progress (barefoot shoe) being meaningfully undone by climbing and not damage in feet of normal people without barefoot shoes
For the past year, I have been wearing barefoot shoes as a daily and now i have been climbing barefoot as much as i can. Its nice to know that there is a wide toebox climbing shoe.
Just wanted to provide some feedback.
I get the point you're trying to make but the climbs you used to demonstrate the effectiveness of your new shoe doesn't make too much sense to me.
The yellow overhang has footchips only at the start of the problem, where the wall is still relatively vert. On the overhanging section of the wall, both the feet and hands are quite large minus that one footchip to the right but the left foot is still good so I don't see how this shows that the Saltics is good for overhangs. I'd also like to see what the Saltics look like on more aggressive overhangs (>45°) as well as roof climbs, where foot stabbing, toe hooks and heel hooks may play more of a part.
For the slab which you were unable to start, I get that you felt closer to the move on the Saltics but the only difference is that you reached your hand out in the Saltics and didn't in your Scarpas. Please correct me if I'm wrong but it doesn't look like you're close to sticking the move regardless as your hips are immediately falling away from the wall as your hand makes contact with the hold.
For the blue slab, it looked less like the shoe was why the start was hard as opposed to just not having found the body position to make the move. Once you found it, it looked pretty similar with both shoes. For the slipping of the foot, it makes perfect sense to me that a painful downsized stiff shoe would be harder to smear in comparison to a comfortable soft shoe.
The Saltics looks to be a great soft smearing shoe but I'd like to see how it looks when standing on small footholds (e.g. 4mm) and more aggressive overhang.
All this criticism aside, I'd like to thank you for bringing attention to these shoes as I haven't heard of them before. I also agree and believe that not everyone needs to aggressively downsize their shoes and hurt their feet, which I'm glad you're bringing attention to.
That's fair. I made my conclusions based on months of climbing and only filmed a few climbs for comparison. I did not want to film any more comparisons because of how much I despise the tighter shoes, and I donated them to the gym as soon as I got a few clips.
The yellow overhang is not a good example, but the conclusion is based on other routes with small foot chips as well. I used them on the 45 wall but my gym actually doesn't have anything more overhanging than that (biggest downside to the gym for sure).
On the slab I was unable to start, I wasn't able to reach my right hand out because I had to keep my weight on that hand, I wasn't able to pull myself into the wall with the left hand like I could with the Saltics. But no I was not particularly close to landing it with the Saltics.
4mm I believe is smaller than any foot chips they have in my gym and I know that for outdoor you need to use foot chips that size and smaller. This would be the biggest downfall of the Saltics.
It does not look like your footwork is "heinous." Thank you for making this video, I do wear barefoot shoes for walking around but still developed bunions from wearing tight climbing shoes. I'd like to see another follow up video to see long-term effects after using the shoes if you don't mind!
@@JulieAnnPham same!! Such a bummer, too!
I fully agree with the statement that the „aggressiv“ performance shoes are actually healthier for your big toe, compared to those „beginner friendly“ shoes with a centric tip.
I was having serious problems to the point where I couldn’t put any pressure on my big toe due to immense pain. Switching to a highly asymmetric performance shoe allowed the big toe to be in a natural position and eventually it recovered.
Unfortunately, non of the shoe shops or gym bros seem to understand that.
Yes using the ball of your foot is a very effective technique.
I've always climbed with at least 2 pairs of shoes. 1 comfy beginner pair and 1 or more performance ones. I'd only whip out the performance ones when the comfy ones just didnt cut it. After climbing a few years now I almost never need the performance ones anymore, even when climbing at my max grade. For me as long as the beginner shoes have decent rubber I can make them work on almost anything.
This is pretty much my exact experience, except before the Saltics even the beginner shoes were still too tight and pointy at the toes!
I agree with this sentiment so much. I've been climbing in comfy shoes 95% of the time and only pulling out more aggressive shoes when needed. Also my comfy shoes are way cheaper so that's an added bonus. For most people on most climbs more aggressive shoes are not needed.
What comfy shoes are you wearing when you climb?
glad to come across this as another person newer to climbing but has done a lot with near-barefoot shoes for other challenging activities
Finally something like this!
I just got new shoes last weekend at a random gym as my shape does not allow for ordering online. I also have wide feet but the "Butora Rubicon" fit perfectly snug and secure! I got them as small but still very comfortable as possible and they feel like a great force around my feet with no pain at all. Do recommend
That's interesting that you recommend high asymmetry. While people typically associate it with discomfort, I've also noticed that it has reduced my toe crowding compared to symmetrical shoes of any width/downturn. Further, I find that the downturn on the shoe doesn't matter too much just as long as the rand is flexible enough to flex with your toes. For that reason, I prefer wearing high asymmetry, high downturn shoes that have a soft and sock-like rand. For indoors, that is perfect for my now messed up feet due to wearing the former for extended periods of time.
I’m a big fan of this video and I hope the barefoot trend catches on in the rock climbing community, like it has in the running community. The Huaorani people climb trees from the time they’re toddlers, and have strong, well-developed toes and feet. Their muscled feet look like hands and help them climb. Westerners didnt grow up like that, so our feet are much weaker, less dexterous and prone to deformities (bunions, etc).
Climbers are dismissive of barefoot climbing shoes because their feet aren’t strong enough to be used effectively. We have no idea what we’re missing.
It's unfortunate that the foot is so often overlooked as being trainable. Hopefully people who train other parts of their bodies to high performance can imagine the potential once they are reminded that the foot is muscle and bone, too.
Do you think gym climb is more like monkey climbing tree or goats climbing mountain
@@shanybody more like monkeys, because monkeys also climb rocks. Rhesus monkeys are found on mountains in Japan, and Gelada monkeys live exclusively on mountains. So I figure they climb rocks just fine.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but my initial intuitive reaction is:
Isn't climbing actually barefoot where your toes can move in the way you're describing (like hands) completely different than climbing in "barefoot" shoes? It's like the difference between bare hands and hands wearing thin mittens...
@@deschain1910 that’s fair, but would you rather climb with thin mittens or with a cast? Barefoot shoes won’t be as free as climbing without any footwear, but ideally they’ll allow your feet to splay and bend in a natural way, allowing all the intrinsic muscles in your foot to work together rather than atrophy. Strong feet are important to maintaining a strong kinetic chain, which not only influences your balance but your overall health.
to be fair bro, your footwork is absolutely heinous. you're wearing oversized shoes and compensating with your physical strength and your takeaway is that the flat shoe is better somehow is completely biased. not saying these things are useless, but your argument is very weak.
Imagine trying to stand on a chip hold without shoes on, thats what its like wearing a soft wide toebox climbing shoe. Regardless of footwork skill you aren't going to be able to precisely balance on a footchip without a super stiff and ergonomically poor shoe. This is the reason why I train in scarpa veloce shoes half a size too large but send my projects in very tight evolv shamans.
both of you entirely missed his point. He literally says in the beginning that downturned aggressive shoes are superior for high-end climbing. He says that he climbs V5 and V6 in the gym so he does not need high-end shoes. His entire purpose for the argument is that they are healthier for the foot, in which case he is entirely correct. Anything that pushes the big toe inward is not anatomically correct and depending on how much it is done leads to varying levels of problems. So don't attack the dude's climbing ability, and don't have the IQ of a gnat and miss his entire purpose of posting this which is about FOOT HEALTH, not performance climbing.
You're not supposed to stay in the shoes more than when you actually climb, they're climbing shoes not walking shoes
You just got me to buy them. I've been transitioning to more relaxing climbing shoes recently. (I also walk a lot barefoot and I don't use non-barefoot shoes anymore.) I still have my old performance climbing shoes, but I never use them anymore. At my level they don't make a difference anyway, they only lower the quality of my time spend in the climbing gym. I'm interested how the Saltics compare to the other relaxing shoes.
If I ever become more performance oriented again, I would probably take a pair of performance shoes and a pair of relaxing shoes to the gym and only put on the performance ones for hard climbs with small footholds where they do make a difference.
Sounds like we’re looking for similar things in a climbing shoe! Let me know if you like them and if you have any thoughts on sizing.
I have properly wide feet: also a long distance runner that prefers to run in basically moccasins. Any suggestion of anything made by scarpa is a straight up joke to me, I have tried multiple lines from them and sizes ranging from US 9 to 12.5, and every single one is so narrow that it leaves bruises if I actually try to climb in them. Again, I run 10-30 miles in shoes that are 4mm thick (before I wear them down), I do not have tender/sensitive feet. La Sportiva is even worse. What climbing shoe companies consider "wide" would be laughable if it wasn't causing so much long term damage to people.
Right now I climb in a pair of red chili fusion VCRs and they're on their 3rd resole because finding shoes is such a struggle. The new "oasis" (which is really an edelrid shoe) is narrower, but almost usable. Also the 9.5 is a bit tight while the 10 feels like a clown shoe.
Here's the thing: I'm only climbing somewhere in the 5.12s, it's not like I'm setting records or that my income depends on my performance. If I want to climb harder the shoes are rarely my problem. there are guys that can climb that hard in a pair of Crocs. I'll take a "good enough" shoe that is comfortable without hesitation because it means I'll spend a lot more time climbing and actually get better. Here to have fun, not max out my current shitty abilities through shoe technology.
I've also found the basic yellow butoras to work, not because they're actually wide enough but because they're so soft that they conform to my feet.
If I can figure out what size I actually am for these shoes I'll try them out, or if there's a local dealer I can try (or mail them back when they end up being 3 sizes too small because also climbing shoe companies have zero consistency)
This past summer I've done my best to wear shoes as little as possible, the longest was a full month without wearing shoes and then only a few hours with shoes on before taking them off again. I've gained so much more grip already, actually using my toes to stabilize myself while walking stairs and stuff. Not at the point where my normal shoes don't fit anymore, but my nice fancy office shoes (that are extra thin) are getting very tight.
It's really just dumb how we as a society let this become the norm.
i have wide feet that measure to exactly size 44.5 and my favorite shoe right now is the lasportiva mantra in size 46. nice and snug on the width but just barely crimps my toes. that and the super thin rubber allows me to really flex my toes and mold my foot to holds. really nice as i have very strong feet, absolutely not recommended for people with regular feet used to being in "supportive" shoes all day
Red Chili is also a high asymmetrical, but I'll try this one for sure. Thanks for highlighing
omg gave been looking for smt tike this :3
Thats awesome!
Thanks for making these videos! If you stumble upon a brand making a wide toe box skate shoe, please make a video as well. Zero drop soles are typical for skate shoes and the sole needs its height and stiffness to protect the foot but I couldn't find any extra wide toe box skate shoes. I ended up buying half size up New Balance Jamie Foy 306 and they're great, but still... Would be nice to buy a shoe that fits even better.
Vans make wides, which are only available in the US. I must admit that the shape of the toe box is horrendous though.
@@osel241 thanks! I'm not US based but it's good to know :)
Wise words.
Nice! I even think if we climb barefoot from a young age it has more benefits over regular climbing shoes. I notice some holds I can do better barefeet, because you can use your toes to hook also. Sometimes the sweaty foot helps even more. Imagine doing it from a very young age, with other feet exercises. You would have very strong toes to stand on, withstand the hard rocks and better grip, almost like hands. Barefoot Charles is one the climbers that does this. Its unfortunate that you cannot climb barefoot in almost evert gym. They say "hygiene" and stuff, but you dont put your hands in your mouth after climbing I hope. We need to stop the bullshit and go all natural.
In nature you don't always have climbing shoes with you, but you always have your barefeet. Be trained for it.
Hello fellow pipeworks climber! I mostly use solutions but have been thinking about getting some comfier shoes even though I’m pretty used to them. I max out at around 13a/v7 and find the aggressive shoes are just not necessary for many routes. Those dual text sloped footholds are killer, but that’s about it.
Oh hey! Well the Saltics are fully maxed out on the comfy spectrum. The smooth/glossy footholds aren’t usually that bad with them because you can smear above hitting the texture of the wall itself.
Dude, you are not going to get bunions from the few hours you have your feet in climbing shoes, you get it from the days of walking around in too narrow shoes. Climbing is very low impact on your feet.
These shoes do more harm to your technique than they are doing you any good in toe strength. You are now smearing small footholds, pushing yourself off the wall, and making you rely more on your upper body strength than pushing yourself up and standing on your toes. You are in fact not even using your toe strength anymore to stand up, because your toes have collapsed outwards in all your examples.
I'm not saying toe strength doesn't play a role in climbing, on the contrary. It's very important on slabs. But nowadays you barely find slabs, especially not in the gym.
For me, these shoes only fill a niche for climbers that focus on outdoor slabs, or climbers with a medical condition in their feet. It won't do anything for your 'feet development', do that on more impact related movements like walking/hiking/running or just getting around the house.
La Sportiva has made No edge shoes, were you are smearring small footholds, instead og using the edge of the shoe. And it works. I do agree with you a lot here tho, but smearing vs edge is actually a good convesation!
def wear what makes you happy, but your logic is flawed IMO. Your footwork with the big toebox shoes are not helping you climb from what I can see.
You should try a set of moccs that fit snug, not tight, if you want to build foot strength. Soft shoes make you use you feet much more, but if they are not tight enough, your foot WILL roll inside the shoe, which is absolutely detrimental to performing at any level.
I think you never learned to use you feet properly and these are allowing you to understand there is more to footwork than just edging....because you cant edge in those at all from what I can see, so your forcing the learning. This isn't to say its a bad thing for your progression, but you will 100% find the limit of that shoe very quickly.... off the top of my head, I suggest Funky Tut (V3) at the milks to compare these with "normal" style shoes.
I feel like these would be very good for thin crack; crazy thin toe box and profile
How do these compare to the scarpa veloces sizing wise? I wear oversized veloces (my big toe is straight in them) and only a few really tiny foot holds give me problems. My biggest gripe with the veloces is how much they press in the big toe, so the saltic shoes seem like a great alternative!
Miura vs and evolv aggro 2 wrecked my big toes, now I wear slightly undersized skwama and I'm way better, nowadays I value comfort more than performance.
Try Paradigma scarpette. New italian shoes.
Interesting! I enjoy my women's Scarpa Veloce for their wider toe box and thin, highly flexible sole. Did find it a bit painful and heavy on the toes to get used to. But with these my second toe next to my big toe get the space they need. And they smear like nothing else. Did you ever try these? I wonder how they compare. I have no experience with barefoot shoes at all.
for that price, i'm just going to climb in an old pair of undersized xero shoes and see how it feels. of course it doesn't have heel rubber and durability might be an issue, but just to experiment with the concept before i commit to it
I found that barefoot shoes like the BeLenka trailwalkers were not a substitute for climbing but the Saltics are a complete replacement (for me who prioritizes getting in shape and fun over just performance). The Saltics have grippier rubber and stiffer soles than Xeros
Dude I thought, huh that looks like a gym I know, then I saw you at deer creek and said “oh, that’s literally here” 😭
The Madrock Shark has a very wide toebox and I think even the 3.0 came out before these.
Are those the ones with the contoured sole (on the inside at the forefoot)? I think I tried those and hated them
@@JakeLeary I think the entire forefoot top and bottom is contoured. There is a polymer plate under the big toe though.
Have the Sharks. I would not recommend those fore anyone with a Wide Foot or toebox.
Ah no demonstration of tiny incut feel. As a gym warm up shoe or for more slopey feet I could see these doing ok. Maybe also easier multipitch. Outdoors I feel these would hold people back on a lot of things near their limit. I can think of loads of 7A ish boulders where actually precise footwork was required.
how does this shoe compare to the scarpa veloces?
they also have a wide footbox, are very soft but quite assymetric.
The Veloce is similar to the “performance” shoes I listed in the video description but nothing like the Saltics, the Saltics are very wide, like a barefoot shoe last
Not really making a good point when your regular shoe just looks like the typical beginner's shoe/rental shoe rather than an actual performance shoe. But honestly I quite fancy the idea of barefoot climbing, but I would much rather do it just that way, barefeet. It's just not allowed in gyms. I don't think any barefoot style climbing shoe is ever gonna come close to the "ergonomical" benefits of actually going barefoot as you can't really crimp your toes on holds if it's encased in rubber. But climbing barefoot requires some mad toe strength and pain tolerance though.
barefott sock-shoes is a way. just not skinners, because they have a kind of edgy prifile in their sole. but barebasics or minasa work well.
It would not be had to make a good edge on that shoe without compromising the barefoot shape. Wonder why they dont do it
Just use a partir of 5 fingers
Wait… …I only just put 2+2 together - you’ve been popping up for me for barefoot stuff for a while, but you were doing a bunch of OneWheel stuff on another channel before, right?
I was doing onewheel videos on my channel but I also did the Learning with Leary series on the Float Life channel !
Fun vídeo, but stating any thing like "makes your feet stronger" is simply crazy. The Best climbers in The World are always looking for that 1% improv, if this way was the Best I am sure Janja would be climbing like this. But may be the Best for you and that is great. More people climbing is always better.
Damnit I just bought new TC Pros… 😂
It sounds like you made the same mistake I did and just bought the wrong shoes for your foot shape and also poorly fit them. I started on the scarpa origins and wish I never bought them. Because of the stiff full sole and lack of space for the toes to lift up, they should NOT be downsized much at all. Conversely, If you have a bunch of extra space, the shoes will just literally be in your own way of even trying to use your toe on small holds and you'll just build a crutch, like you said you were, of trying to smear on top of everything. This is just terrible for footwork and will hold you back, if you care (fine if you don't but at least be honest about it). You also mention how the "bunion problem" can be from people not picking a shoe that fits their foot but make no mention of an effort to do just that and get a better fitting shoe that doesn't have to be 15 sizes too big to be comfortable.
From the sounds of it you just like a softer shoe (to "build toe strength" even though any proper fitting shoe on small edges will do the same thing) so try on something like the Veloce. It's basically a sock with climbing rubber on it. Great for smearing and forming to your feet to be comfy and have zero support to them at all which will be perfect for trying to support body weight on just one toe for you.
Bro 150 USD is disgusting D:
How much do you spend on climbing shoes?
@ I’m just starting out climbing so I wasn’t sure how much shoes would be. I now understand hoe expensive they are! I ended up buying the shoes you recommended
As someone who has discovered climbing and barefoot shoes roughly at the same time, this seems perfect for me. I'll need to wear out my current shoes before I can consider these, but I'm very conscious of how my climbing shoes over time might mess up my feet. That's part of why I wear toe spacers along with my barefoot shoes a lot of the time, to force good toe posture and teaching myself to engage my toes more when walking to try and counteract the effects of 2-3 2-hour climbing sessions per week. Great to see that something like this exists! One question though: how are their edges? With very soft shoes I'm always curious as to how well their soles are able to grab onto small edges, especially as my main gym has smooth walls, so smearing is far less useful than on rock or with textured walls.
Mmm smooth walls would make these less appealing, but it’s mostly the slab where I smear, I’m not smearing on any overhanging stuff. The edges are a bit soft for foot chips, and you’ll definitely be struggling/disappointed at first like I was, but like I said after a couple months I was only climbing in these, I’ll never go back now.
Expensive tho
Rumor has it they call him "The Shoe Man"...
cool video
you dont need barefoot climbing shoes, with your poor foot placement you can do the same with crocs. If you want to keep healthy joints climb easy route with any soft shoe/crocs
No, I’ve tried in other barefoot shoes including the BeLenka Trailwalkers and they were absolutely not a replacement for my climbing shoes. The Saltics are similar in terms of the space inside the shoe, but the rubber on the bottom is much thicker/stiffer, the rubber is very grippy and have a proper heel for heel hooking.
v5 in eu is like V2-v3 in Asia, just saying.
It’s good to say you hate tight shoes, but it’s stupid to say wearing flat climbing shoes can make one climb better, specially as an inexperienced climber
But I’m more convinced that you create this whole content just to sell theses shoes, do it for the bread, understandable. Coz even you would know how ridiculous it sounds
bro is coping hard with them clown shoes
I agree, I feel like tiny indoor foot holds are only made to sell shoes, and destroy feet, nothing to do with skills and enjoying the sport. I thought about the same analogy with device we would wear like hooks to help the hand grip tiny crimps, they would not help the sport or your strength and would become mandatory. This week I bought my first real climbing shoes, I normally wear 42 size soes, I had to buy a 45 to not have unbearable pain wearing them. I found this so ridiculous. I feel like pointy, rigid shoes are just a cheat that became mandatory because of the indoor route setter using impossible foot chips. My personal advice is to stay avay from boulders that require cheat shoes and enjoy the rest. I would love the community to grow out of this perversion.
Tiny indoor footholds more closely mimic what might be found outdoors and they are more demanding on your technique. Ultimately, using smaller or awkward footholds will improve your climbing. It really isn't a conspiracy. Think of shoes as a tool to be used, they give a certain performance:wear ratio before needing to be replaced. It sucks that budgets for resoles and new shoes will affect what you can do but that's the same in a lot of sports equipment.
I hope you found a shoe that fit your foot well and didn't have to go big just to get it on without pain. Shape really makes a huge difference and it's worth trying lots of different manufacturers shoes. When I try on shoes I never expect them to be comfortable to walk around in, then match comfort to climb duration and you should be fine. Good luck!
@@dmizzle73 what you say is what most climber think but I feel that they are coerced by the feeling of belonging to the group and they fail to imagine a world of climbing without feet destroying shoes. I feel naturally like an outsider so I don't care and I find that the arms race between tiny holds and shoes makes no sense indoor (I repeat indoor) Outdoor it's different because natural condition and competition to climb harder grade makes sense. Indoor all the routes are artificial, we can make them what ever we want and we don't need to mimic precisely outdoor climbing at all. We can make the foothold challenging without requiring pointy rigid shoes. It's like the debate with anatomy in climbing, should competition favor tall people or not, I feel that they shouldn't. You want a tall sport : go volley and basket, or high/long jump. In climbing, no morphology should have any advantage, because the challenges don't need to be there and can be in any climber characteristic, ideally more technical and strength based than morphological. To conclude my point, it's true that some boulder don't require specific shoes, many do and it makes the sport less natural and about equipment. I used very soft beginner shoes for a year and I initially found it very hard to stand on toes on small holds, eventually my feet became way stronger and I still don't trust small chips but I can take them, without using real good shoes. but at the very hardest grade, I can't hold them with flexible shoes, so harder grade is only attainable by buying augmenting equipment which defeats the sport's spirit in my opinion. We should aim at improving ourselves, not using a device to replace our abilities.
@@raph151515 I'm nearly 40 - I've been climbing for 20 years. Peer pressure isn't a factor for me. I saw a few contemporaries go down the smaller is better route rarely causing injuries (though did see bursitis) but more often just unneccessary discomfort.
My goal is to climbing better on all angles and terrain. A lot of which means using the feet to their maximum potential. In the margins I will try different shoes with occasionally looser or tighter fit and degree of being downturned but mainly I try to use the best tool for the job. That will carry into my technique and ultimately highest level of climbing.
I'd urge you to consider fit and softness more than size. My indoor training shoe is a La Sportiva Theory, it fits my foot well and I can wear it for 10-15mins without issue. I couldn't do that in other LaS of the same size so I didn't buy them.
You can use inferior equipment if performance isn't your main goal. But, it's a bit like a ballet dancer not wearing ballet shoes - you can do some of the moves but you're missing out on some inherent part of the activity. Eventually, if you want to progress further you'll have to reconsider your approach.
In the meantime, allow everyone else who wants to train indoors for outdoor climbs their training apparatus (it was why indoor gyms opened in the first place after all).
@@raph151515 What you're failing to understand here is that indoor climbing is not a separate sport: it is meant to mimic and prepare people for outdoor climbing, which has very tiny footholds. Most experienced climbers climb outdoor seasonally, and indoor to train. It's fine that this isn't what you personally want to do, but the idea that the tiny footholds are some kind of exclusive in-group idea is crazy, it's design to train people for outdoor climbing, which is what many of us want to do.
Re: "using a device to replace our abilities", it is physically impossible to climb elite routes without climbing shoes. Period. It's not even close to possible. We would just have to give up climbing those routes without the shoes.
@@geometerfpv2804 actually there is nothing making this a rule. Things have evolved, now many boulder setting styles are completely different then rock climbing like dynos, coordo, ultra physical with jugs, slabs which are more prevalent in indoor bouldering, probably because generally rock climbing is more dangerous and indoor is more controlled. Yes outdoor climbers need a place to train but I think that indoor lead is more adapted for that. A big part of indoor bouldering is about something different than rock climbing and I feel that the footwear debate haven't even started and it will eventually come. Even in the Olympics and world cups feature many boulders (even though not the majority) that don't require ultra tight and rigid shoe but the way the competition is organized, it's difficult to have multiple shoes and change after the timer starts. The time of mostly crimps and chips is gone. It would be nice to see more boulders that don't require these shoes and more manufacturer with offering that value ergonomics more
These are just shoes from 1985 , good luck with these clown shoes 😂
Too ugly for women in style. I dont understand, why producers cant combine function with style in sport shoes. Would prefer other sport models