I actually explained the PGA Tour's reversing their position in my comment above. The real question is why the LIV Tour needs to offer Rahm 600 million dollars when there was a tentative agreement of partnership between the three major tours. My angle is they want to trap as many top players as they can with unfeasible buyout clauses. Then go after making the four traditional majors irrelevant.
The PGA Tour is exactly what happens when you run rough shot over an entire industry without competition for decades only to finally have a viable competitor come in and pose a real challenge.
Jay Monihan is No leader and is way out of his depth on every level needed in these negotiations with LIV & PGA Players alike. He needs to step down or be removed ASAP !!
Sadly Greg Norman is the wrong pick. The pga could have survived alone, if it had a view for global interactions and adjustment, and the biggest issue they weren't looking after thier talent, from the best to the rookies. But Norman had a longstanding distaste for pga , he was the wrong choice by far
DP World tor should align with LIV, Asian tour, Sunshine tour, Australia Tour, Japan tour and become a true global tour brand. Leave PGA tour to the Americans. Never understood why 3 of the 4 Majors for men are in USA if it is a global game? US PGA should never be a Major. There should be a Major in Asia and main land Europe for the men.
The PGA tour thought that they had a monopoly on the game of golf until 2 years ago. This is the reaction of an entity who simply cannot come to terms with an alternative choice. This is showing and exposing every flaw in the PGA model.
I’m an expert on stakeholder engagement and I have rarely seen an organisation more desperately in need of a coherent stakeholder management strategy than the PGA Tour right now. Blows my mind how badly they are handling their relationships with the players.
Actually PGA Tour has a history of doing this kind of stuff 1947 - Bobby Locke (a South African) joins the PGA Tour and dominates the competition, is banned in 1948 1968 - Players led by Jack and Arnold Palmer revolt against PGA of America and takes possession of the tour to cash out on TV contracts 1986 - Seve is banned from playing on the PGA Tour, while other players with similar schedules like Langer, Norman, and Nick Price are completely unpunished 1994 - Arnold Palmer throws Greg Norman under the bus over the World Tour, Tim Finchem gets Washington politicians to drop the DOJ investigation, John Feinstein and other media members give an inaccurate account of these events So this is just the latest in a string of transgressions
Just proves that the PGA mafia has been running things for many years and all the so called favourites of American golf turn out to be the biggest crooks of all time.. With LIV taking off they will do anything to safe their own PGA by any means...
Imagine You-tube professional players like Bryan bros, the reach that they could also give LIV tour if either where offered a spot...would be insane. It would be amazing. Golf is a global individual sport...so let it expand qnd embrace the potential.
Pgatour has already screwed the rank and file by awarding triple fedex points to the elevated events, this means the top 50 are a protected species, couple of top 10s and they will retain top 50 while a regular player would have to get 10 x top 10s to match the points. Its a closed shop and patently un meritorious.
Jimmy Walker is the fomer major champion going to the LIV Promotions event. He recently lost his card and I'm sure could give a rats ass about the PGAT at this point.
Mate you just repeating what Greg Norman said in the 90s he wanted to build a world tour but was stopped what you're saying is old news PGA don't want it to happen so sad
Jay and the old men’s club has killed the PGA. They just cannot see nor will they accept that the world is different. They think we live in a time of rotary dial phones, limited entry to golf, and what ever Tiger wants. The players I want to see are playing on LIV. Heck, the LPGA is more fun, more exciting than the PGA. I want people playing great golf, not making golf oriented political talking points. When you do that, you get winners and losers. Where do they get off thinking they’d be the winners. Greg and Jay had their day. Get them out. Let’s focus on the game. I cannot wait until sponsors and a major channel pick up LIV and even I’d watch past competitions. I not longer care what Rory or Tiger think or do. Even my underdogs are with LIV. If I manufactured golf equipment, I’d find my way to LIV tomorrow. It would be a bargain for the first to move.
The PGA Tour, have no choice, the anti competition ruling from the courts, cuts out their ability to bully the players, as they did previously. Before the ruling, they could dictate policy, but the ruling clipped their wings, and are likely afraid to upset their wealthy new partner in PIF. All pro golfers, should be free to play on any tour, if they meet the criteria for that league/tour. I said the same very early on, when the PGA Tour began threatening the players, that the PGA Tour, should have let LIV take whoever wanted to go, and allow players to play on whichever tour they chose to play on. That way, there would have been much less animosity from some of the players, as they would know their friends/co-pro's would return to play soon. LIV has huge gaps in the schedule and would have moved their comps to suit the biggest PGA Tours showcase events. Everyone, wants to see the best players, and that should have been the main focus from day one, how do we fit it all in. That way, players would choose and have to deal with those choices, if they lost at one venue, knowing they just might have gained a better result at a course they know well. Life should be about choices, especially when our Pro golfers are self-employed.
If the PGA tour had not treated it's players like a Dictator over the peasants--highly paid peasants---and treated them more as PARTNERS in the enterprise, LIV would never have happened. You keep kicking an old dog and sooner or later you are going to get bit!
This goes to show that Jay does not know what he is doing. Changing rules as he goes. Should accept the fact the Great white shark has a better visions and ways to promote golf world wide.
The PGA is in serious need of new leadership. The current leader is an absolute a-hole. Why can't there be another tour for players? There's several now, and the DP world tour isn't in the best financial place from what's being said recently.
I like hearing about the players that make the transition. Bryan Bros in the Bahamas was the PGA Tours shot at winning iver lots of people but didnt. Offer George a sponsor exemption and a RUclips filming opportunity and watch how much yhey would grow LIV if they were interested. I think if all the players are allowed back when if they merge well then yake the money now and head back if that ever happens.
The goal of the the LIV Tour is not to expand the game of golf; their goal is destroy the PGA Tour. This became evident when they offered Rahm a 600 million dollar sign on bonus. If the tours had a tentative merger agreement offering him such a large figure, 6x more than Koepka, iis unnecessary. LIV views Rahm as the weakest link amongst the top PGA tour players. If they get him they will offer Rory a figure so big that most golf fans will excuse his past statements on the LIV Tour. Once Rory goes everyone goes. What I am really interested in knowing is if the buyout clauses last longer than the term of the contract. It was reported that players could buyout their contract, usually a four year deal, for 3 to 4x their signing bonus. It doesn't seem smart to offer a 600 million dollar bonus that Rahm could walk away from after four years.
Jay Monahan and the pga tour is a bad joke that we keep hearing. This is why nobody cares or watches the pga tour. The best players in the world play on the LIV Tour.
I played in New Jersey USA Today and it was a lil chilly but no wind for the front nine and I shot a terrible 45 then on the back 9 after the rain and wind came I shot a 38 go figure. This is a funny game
I actually think the PGA tour is digging their own grave these days, they don't seem to have any interest in the golf it's all about making headlines that confuse players making them uncomfortable, no one knows what they actually stand for these days. They change opinion all the time. Its been said before but i really think the chairman has to go, we need to get some new idears and eyes in there. But lets see they might change opinion again by the end of this week. I wasnt the biggest fan of LIV to begin with but PGA kind of made me change my opinion, these days I rude for LIV to take over the hole thing, cause it seems like PGA dont wanne look inwards and find solutions they are more interested in making bad headlines and making the golfers feel unsafe.
They are under contracts so no, they cant do whatever they want. Most of the bigger players on LIV wouldnt be anything without playing on the PGA tour for years….just saying. Where do you think Mickelson has gotten his money from before he went to LIV?
What a way to run loose more players to liv. You can't just treat them like this and not expect them not to revolt. They are acting desperate, backed into a corner and flexing their weakening strength. Very sad and disappointing... Oh well I did just finish playing a round With my buddy at Empire ranch golf course in carson city nv. Cold but clear sky's and dry. Worst score all year 😂. But still a great time.
It's fairly obvious what's happening. PGA thought no one else was going to LIV. They likely didn't believe that PIF had stopped pursuing PGA players, yet they did. When the DOJ said this clause was anti competitive and PIF started going after PGA players again, likely PGA thought no one was going. Also, they thought no PGA players would play in the LIV promotion tournament. They thought wrong and are now backpedaling. That's all that happened. They thought they had weathered the storm only to find themselves in the middle of the hurricane. Also, the majors are behind this backpedaling, not PGA. I haven't figure out yet why they're doing this, but it's 100% the majors who are making this move against LIV. They're the ones who denied LIV world ranking points for purely political reasons and now this.
@@alienrenders Exactly, their abstaining was a silent 'no'; they were never going to vote yes and the Major reps, in reality, werent the deciding votes they were just the only votes.
@@TMar1961 That makes no sense. The asian tour would have voted yes. They were saved by PIF and is how LIV was able to get a vote in the first place. True that others would have voted no, but why would the majors vote no?
My peers and I no longer watch pga golf. The coverage is rubbish. Having said that we do not watch LIV either. PGA must up their game, they are losing all of their talent. Change is good!!
I agree they should be allowed as these are just specific events. As long as they don't interfere with the current committed schedule..PGA changing decision is counter productive.
Nah I don't Rahm to move over, liv golf won't be viable for ever these guys are not playing for history or titles, they're are only playing for what gets flipped into their pockets, yes money is something, but all these guys wanted and dreamed about majors and winning historical tournaments, the other reality is liv sadly is proportionately filled with yesterday hero's, not all but a lot
It´s a free world, right? I´m not completely aware of what contract or obligation (if any) players have with PGA. But go play golf wherever they want. The best players will play where the best money is. And until now it has been the PGA. Look on any other sport and say thats not the case, so why not golf. But I still think the best solution is to coexist. But just maybe the PGA will be in the no.2 position of having the best players, only time will tell. And the world ranking is another shit show when more of the best players in the world plays on LIV. It´t worked as long the PGA had all the best players (becuse there was the most money), but no more. I will open an cold one 🍺 and pop some popcorn 🍿 and keep following the drama unfold.
Cannot think of a better “American knows best” example than the arrogant PGA tour. Reminds me of the World Series of Baseball that only takes place in America….
Six months on and nothing but OWGR denying points, entertaining Endeavor Group and Fenway Sports as options other than PIF and now this. Looks as if the players on the Tour Policy Board aren’t going to let Monahan ride off into the sunset with “New Co” that easily.
Not confusing at all. When LIV unnecessarily offered Rahm 6x more than Koepka as a signing bonus they exposed their true goal which is to end the PGA Tour. Rahm is viewed by LIV as the weakest link among top PGA Tour players. If he signs LIV will offer Rory such a big number most golf fans will excuse his past statements about the LIV Tour. Rory goes everybody follows.
PGA is showing their inability to run as a business. Their incompetence is due to years of a monopoly and complacency... Merely from a business sense I hope someone kicks their butt
Obviously the tours have rules and can punish players but as I’ve said from the beginning hey need to get rid of those rules. Imo if a players has a card, they should be able to play as much of as little as they want. If playing too little means they lose their card, so be it. If they can keep their card playing just one event so be it. Give your pros freedom. But at the same time LIv should drop to 12 events and all the players on LIv should play all the events, as that is their thing having everyone there every time. Imo the best thing for everyone is what I just described. Mom tour should be in the business of punishing the tour pros they ideally want in their events. This whole punishing and fining pliers needs to stop. LIv brings a lot of money to then eat players on earth. My take is always the same, the sport needs to embrace this. We can still have all those other tours and embrace this super prosperous tour. We can still have the top pga tour ad DP world tour events …we can have it all golf world. The commissioners just need to remember their job is to make pro golfers as much money as possible. By blocking something like LIv bringing in so much money for the players, those organizers are not doing what is best for the players.
Love Liv because it's the only golf I can watch free of charge just had a really enjoyable afternoon watching the qualifying it was really exciting poor old Laurie Canter in the 3 man play off had it in the palm of his hand and let it slip I can't afford Sky golf also I can't afford the ridiculous prices at the Open championship or the long journey I can afford the Liv prices at Jcb and it's in the middle of the country so win win
PGA / LIV is actually boring, it makes little difference to me where the professionals earn their money. The main issue is the majors and who qualifies and how. For the opens the option is there if not pre qualified to go through qualifying. Saturday a cross country 9 holes at Ramside, north east England bit wet but better than I expected. Sunday 18 holes Ineos and chipping ice off my spikes for 1st 6 holes to protect the greens. Winter golf got to embrace it
Comes back to the root of the argument....Are players independent contractors or contracted players ?. Answer this question and it makes everything clear cut but no one seems to be able to provide a definitive answer. Hence why it will have to go to court someday ?.
Never really understood the reaction of the main tours to LIV. Instead of seeing it as another professional outlet with massive amounts of money for pros to play for, they see it as a threat! Surely fining players is a restriction of trade in law? I’m surprised a main golf channel hasn’t taken up rights to show LIV golf, lots of characters, tournament innovations.
youre not naming them so you dont know who they are name them if you do by all accounts it seems rahm could be a done deal but nothing offical yet so only speculation
This still bullshit, until there is a final future for what golf is going to be, these half baked arrangements is making the pga look like fledgling amateurs. If they had not made greedy mistakes with ownership of pga tour members skills to be sold for marketing without them getting a half share of the financial gain, liv may not have happened, the pga tour were not looking after their talent, the other issue they have fixed is for the rookies, at least they are guaranteed and income to survive on, when first on tour. The pga think they are the ants pants, but they nothing without their players I wish the players grew some balls and realised that they own the upper hand
The true history of the professional game this last part of this century and the beginning of this one is the PGA tour. Thats where everyone wanted to play. Best players and best purses. Now LIV has come along and challenged the purses thing. These modern players want one thing. Max pay. LIV has backed themselves into a bit of a corner in my opinion by offering a "new product" More laid back and less stuffy so to speak. LIV should just start a tour, pay the players whatever it wants and have a few of "non standard" events to appease their base that they have established. They do that and it will become a World Tour and will relegate PGA tour and DP to the minor league of professional golf organizations in my humble opinion.
"Based on discussions with staff at the Department of Justice, we chose to remove specific language from the Framework Agreement. While we believe the language is lawful, we also consider it unnecessary in the spirit of cooperation and because all parties are negotiating in good faith.".....quote from the PGA Tour after provision was removed from tentative agreement between PGA Tour and LIV tour. Perhaps the LIV Tour broke the "Good faith negotiations" when ,they pursued Rahm. Also the unused bullets in the PGA Tour's proverbial gun are the PGA of America, USGA, R&A, and Augusta National. Those organizations can require all past champions be required to be PGA/DP Tour members to receive past champion exemptions.
@@stryderja9570 True each player effected by the change in criteria could sue. Each organization has the right to change their exemption criteria as they wish. Corporations change contract terms all the time. The real story here is this. The PGA Tour was willing to let members play in a qualifying tournament. They rescinded that opportunity when the story of Rahm receiving a 600 million dollar offer from LiV. Now why would LIV offer a huge sum of money, if true, to get a player when if within a year that player could chose to play in a LIV tournament as a "wildcard" entry? My opinion is that LIV wants to secure enough, maybe 15 big name players, with huge bonus money so that a buyout by them would be financially unfeasible. Now once they get those players trapped LIV could schedule their own "majors" the week of traditional majors and the small print in those big dollar contracts will require those players to play in the LIV events. Let's face it, we're talking about the Saudis and Greg Norman here. They only purpose of offering PGA Tour players big money now is to trap them. Also in regard to the Ryder Cup, the biggest money-maker the PGA of America has, LIV could hold their own event that week with their players. If the PGA of America doesn't make a move to protect themselves they'll lose their two biggest money making events.
No poaching is fair game. If anything they would be hurting the chance the merge is accepted by congress if they don’t poach now. Because it would seem they are colliding or something.
I might be in the minority but the tour should be able to stop every player who is under a signed contract and is getting paid to play the PGA tour from playing elsewhere. But aren’t they independent contractors?
They are independent contractors, add to that the PIP money the PGA just dispersed ($100 million) only went to the top 20 players….somebody has been selling shit sandwiches for the past 18 months to the PGA faithful…
Not really, he has a positive attitude and does not push PGA propaganda at every opportunity with a bitter and mocking tone of voice A lot of people equate that to being very LIV biased
He started pga tour biased big time but over time could not pretend anymore. Now he is impartial. But the fact is LIv keep growing while the pga tour keep being misled.
Not true. Justin Thomas had an off year and dropped to 52nd on the PGA Tour money list. There is no such thing as an off year for the big four of Koepka, Johnson, DeChambeau, Smith on the LIV Tour.
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*HUGE U TURN! but why?! i feel they keep doing this and it’s not a good message?*
I actually explained the PGA Tour's reversing their position in my comment above. The real question is why the LIV Tour needs to offer Rahm 600 million dollars when there was a tentative agreement of partnership between the three major tours. My angle is they want to trap as many top players as they can with unfeasible buyout clauses. Then go after making the four traditional majors irrelevant.
Bad people do bad stuff, the end
Any company facing massive profit downgrades will attempt to minimise their losses
@@DanielSong39 Look @ the colonised western free world ut is a lost white society
Just another reason to not follow the pga tour anymore.
The PGA Tour is exactly what happens when you run rough shot over an entire industry without competition for decades only to finally have a viable competitor come in and pose a real challenge.
Jay Monihan is No leader and is way out of his depth on every level needed in these negotiations with LIV & PGA Players alike. He needs to step down or be removed ASAP !!
Sick and tired of the closed shop PGA tour. Glad Greg Norman finally found a way to challenge it.
Yeah, fair enough! thanks for tuning in too 🙌🏼
Sadly Greg Norman is the wrong pick.
The pga could have survived alone, if it had a view for global interactions and adjustment, and the biggest issue they weren't looking after thier talent, from the best to the rookies.
But Norman had a longstanding distaste for pga , he was the wrong choice by far
DP World tor should align with LIV, Asian tour, Sunshine tour, Australia Tour, Japan tour and become a true global tour brand. Leave PGA tour to the Americans. Never understood why 3 of the 4 Majors for men are in USA if it is a global game? US PGA should never be a Major. There should be a Major in Asia and main land Europe for the men.
Now that's the best idea I've heard in a while.
You are so spot on
The PGA tour thought that they had a monopoly on the game of golf until 2 years ago. This is the reaction of an entity who simply cannot come to terms with an alternative choice. This is showing and exposing every flaw in the PGA model.
I’m an expert on stakeholder engagement and I have rarely seen an organisation more desperately in need of a coherent stakeholder management strategy than the PGA Tour right now. Blows my mind how badly they are handling their relationships with the players.
Contracted employees.
The PGA TOUR and LIV are both the same
Actually PGA Tour has a history of doing this kind of stuff
1947 - Bobby Locke (a South African) joins the PGA Tour and dominates the competition, is banned in 1948
1968 - Players led by Jack and Arnold Palmer revolt against PGA of America and takes possession of the tour to cash out on TV contracts
1986 - Seve is banned from playing on the PGA Tour, while other players with similar schedules like Langer, Norman, and Nick Price are completely unpunished
1994 - Arnold Palmer throws Greg Norman under the bus over the World Tour, Tim Finchem gets Washington politicians to drop the DOJ investigation, John Feinstein and other media members give an inaccurate account of these events
So this is just the latest in a string of transgressions
Just proves that the PGA mafia has been running things for many years and all the so called favourites of American golf turn out to be the biggest crooks of all time.. With LIV taking off they will do anything to safe their own PGA by any means...
And they call LIV a closed shop??? Wtf
Imagine You-tube professional players like Bryan bros, the reach that they could also give LIV tour if either where offered a spot...would be insane. It would be amazing. Golf is a global individual sport...so let it expand qnd embrace the potential.
I f they are independent contractors (the players) they should be able to play wherever they want.
I really do not like it when they say” ok let’s get right into the story”. Then spend 45 seconds not talking about the story. Change it up bro
How does Jay Monahan still have a job?
The PGA tour says its Number 1 with all the top players but in actual fact they are shitting their pants trying to keep players.
Pgatour has already screwed the rank and file by awarding triple fedex points to the elevated events, this means the top 50 are a protected species, couple of top 10s and they will retain top 50 while a regular player would have to get 10 x top 10s to match the points. Its a closed shop and patently un meritorious.
Jimmy Walker is the fomer major champion going to the LIV Promotions event. He recently lost his card and I'm sure could give a rats ass about the PGAT at this point.
He is washed up too.
It’s that simple time to build the world tour - golf is a world sport
Mate you just repeating what Greg Norman said in the 90s he wanted to build a world tour but was stopped what you're saying is old news PGA don't want it to happen so sad
Jay and the old men’s club has killed the PGA. They just cannot see nor will they accept that the world is different. They think we live in a time of rotary dial phones, limited entry to golf, and what ever Tiger wants. The players I want to see are playing on LIV. Heck, the LPGA is more fun, more exciting than the PGA. I want people playing great golf, not making golf oriented political talking points. When you do that, you get winners and losers. Where do they get off thinking they’d be the winners. Greg and Jay had their day. Get them out. Let’s focus on the game.
I cannot wait until sponsors and a major channel pick up LIV and even I’d watch past competitions. I not longer care what Rory or Tiger think or do. Even my underdogs are with LIV. If I manufactured golf equipment, I’d find my way to LIV tomorrow. It would be a bargain for the first to move.
The PGA Tour, have no choice, the anti competition ruling from the courts, cuts out their ability to bully the players, as they did previously. Before the ruling, they could dictate policy, but the ruling clipped their wings, and are likely afraid to upset their wealthy new partner in PIF.
All pro golfers, should be free to play on any tour, if they meet the criteria for that league/tour.
I said the same very early on, when the PGA Tour began threatening the players, that the PGA Tour, should have let LIV take whoever wanted to go, and allow players to play on whichever tour they chose to play on. That way, there would have been much less animosity from some of the players, as they would know their friends/co-pro's would return to play soon.
LIV has huge gaps in the schedule and would have moved their comps to suit the biggest PGA Tours showcase events. Everyone, wants to see the best players, and that should have been the main focus from day one, how do we fit it all in. That way, players would choose and have to deal with those choices, if they lost at one venue, knowing they just might have gained a better result at a course they know well. Life should be about choices, especially when our Pro golfers are self-employed.
Got my 1st ever hole in one on Saturday 😊
well done !!
Yeah ha!
Why do you think the pga tour should’ve had this rule from the beginning??? Makes zero sense to ban players
If the PGA tour had not treated it's players like a Dictator over the peasants--highly paid peasants---and treated them more as PARTNERS in the enterprise, LIV would never have happened. You keep kicking an old dog and sooner or later you are going to get bit!
The PGAT is all about growing the game, as long as they own the game.
This goes to show that Jay does not know what he is doing. Changing rules as he goes. Should accept the fact the Great white shark has a better visions and ways to promote golf world wide.
The PGA is in serious need of new leadership. The current leader is an absolute a-hole. Why can't there be another tour for players? There's several now, and the DP world tour isn't in the best financial place from what's being said recently.
Makes me wonder if it's really Fed-Ex that owns the majority share of the pga
You might be on to something, because if you do the research…PIF has a substantial investment in FedEx
I like hearing about the players that make the transition. Bryan Bros in the Bahamas was the PGA Tours shot at winning iver lots of people but didnt. Offer George a sponsor exemption and a RUclips filming opportunity and watch how much yhey would grow LIV if they were interested. I think if all the players are allowed back when if they merge well then yake the money now and head back if that ever happens.
The goal of the the LIV Tour is not to expand the game of golf; their goal is destroy the PGA Tour. This became evident when they offered Rahm a 600 million dollar sign on bonus. If the tours had a tentative merger agreement offering him such a large figure, 6x more than Koepka, iis unnecessary. LIV views Rahm as the weakest link amongst the top PGA tour players. If they get him they will offer Rory a figure so big that most golf fans will excuse his past statements on the LIV Tour. Once Rory goes everyone goes.
What I am really interested in knowing is if the buyout clauses last longer than the term of the contract. It was reported that players could buyout their contract, usually a four year deal, for 3 to 4x their signing bonus. It doesn't seem smart to offer a 600 million dollar bonus that Rahm could walk away from after four years.
I don't watch any more, only LPGA!
Jay Monahan and the pga tour is a bad joke that we keep hearing. This is why nobody cares or watches the pga tour. The best players in the world play on the LIV Tour.
I played in New Jersey USA Today and it was a lil chilly but no wind for the front nine and I shot a terrible 45 then on the back 9 after the rain and wind came I shot a 38 go figure. This is a funny game
I played on the weekend and pulled a Smithy, couldn't do anything right.
I actually think the PGA tour is digging their own grave these days, they don't seem to have any interest in the golf it's all about making headlines that confuse players making them uncomfortable, no one knows what they actually stand for these days. They change opinion all the time. Its been said before but i really think the chairman has to go, we need to get some new idears and eyes in there. But lets see they might change opinion again by the end of this week. I wasnt the biggest fan of LIV to begin with but PGA kind of made me change my opinion, these days I rude for LIV to take over the hole thing, cause it seems like PGA dont wanne look inwards and find solutions they are more interested in making bad headlines and making the golfers feel unsafe.
Pro golfers are self employed business people. As such they should be able to decide on what they want to do for their business. End off.
They are under contracts so no, they cant do whatever they want. Most of the bigger players on LIV wouldnt be anything without playing on the PGA tour for years….just saying. Where do you think Mickelson has gotten his money from before he went to LIV?
@@In_my_own_mind By signing a contract they have decided to do what they want with that company. It's their decision.
What a way to run loose more players to liv. You can't just treat them like this and not expect them not to revolt. They are acting desperate, backed into a corner and flexing their weakening strength. Very sad and disappointing...
Oh well I did just finish playing a round With my buddy at Empire ranch golf course in carson city nv. Cold but clear sky's and dry. Worst score all year 😂. But still a great time.
I'll be watching LIV and the Majors in 2024
It's fairly obvious what's happening. PGA thought no one else was going to LIV. They likely didn't believe that PIF had stopped pursuing PGA players, yet they did. When the DOJ said this clause was anti competitive and PIF started going after PGA players again, likely PGA thought no one was going. Also, they thought no PGA players would play in the LIV promotion tournament. They thought wrong and are now backpedaling.
That's all that happened. They thought they had weathered the storm only to find themselves in the middle of the hurricane.
Also, the majors are behind this backpedaling, not PGA. I haven't figure out yet why they're doing this, but it's 100% the majors who are making this move against LIV. They're the ones who denied LIV world ranking points for purely political reasons and now this.
Check the voting members of the World Rankings, most are affiliated with the PGA Tour.
@@TMar1961 I'm just saying everyone abstained except for the majors on the vote to give liv golf ranking points. I know exactly who's on that board.
@@alienrenders Exactly, their abstaining was a silent 'no'; they were never going to vote yes and the Major reps, in reality, werent the deciding votes they were just the only votes.
@@TMar1961 That makes no sense. The asian tour would have voted yes. They were saved by PIF and is how LIV was able to get a vote in the first place. True that others would have voted no, but why would the majors vote no?
@@alienrenders "Majors" = PGA Tour
The end
My peers and I no longer watch pga golf. The coverage is rubbish. Having said that we do not watch LIV either. PGA must up their game, they are losing all of their talent. Change is good!!
I share your experience.Worst is that many former fans have stopped talking about tournament golf.
PGA Tour did this to themselves, completion is healthy for the game.
I agree they should be allowed as these are just specific events. As long as they don't interfere with the current committed schedule..PGA changing decision is counter productive.
C'mon Jrahm, sign sign sign!
Nah I don't Rahm to move over, liv golf won't be viable for ever these guys are not playing for history or titles, they're are only playing for what gets flipped into their pockets, yes money is something, but all these guys wanted and dreamed about majors and winning historical tournaments, the other reality is liv sadly is proportionately filled with yesterday hero's, not all but a lot
@@RobertFlynn-i4h it's people like you that lack the intelligence to understand basic concepts
@@RobertFlynn-i4honly the majors have real history. Maybe 2-3 other events on each tour.
It´s a free world, right?
I´m not completely aware of what contract or obligation (if any) players have with PGA. But go play golf wherever they want. The best players will play where the best money is. And until now it has been the PGA. Look on any other sport and say thats not the case, so why not golf.
But I still think the best solution is to coexist. But just maybe the PGA will be in the no.2 position of having the best players, only time will tell.
And the world ranking is another shit show when more of the best players in the world plays on LIV. It´t worked as long the PGA had all the best players (becuse there was the most money), but no more.
I will open an cold one 🍺 and pop some popcorn 🍿 and keep following the drama unfold.
Cannot think of a better “American knows best” example than the arrogant PGA tour. Reminds me of the World Series of Baseball that only takes place in America….
I thought that PGA Tour players were independent contractors. Why can't they play where they want to play?
Where dod I play? Thanks for asking! Stonecrest CC in Summerfield, Florida (Ocala). It was a learning experience.
Six months on and nothing but OWGR denying points, entertaining Endeavor Group and Fenway Sports as options other than PIF and now this. Looks as if the players on the Tour Policy Board aren’t going to let Monahan ride off into the sunset with “New Co” that easily.
PGA Tour becoming a laughing stock!
PGA shooting themselves in the foot yet again! They will be changing their name to Tiger and Rory four ball tour if they can keep 4 players.
The whole thing is totally confusing. I thought the tours were merging. So why can't players play where they want to.
I agree
Not confusing at all. When LIV unnecessarily offered Rahm 6x more than Koepka as a signing bonus they exposed their true goal which is to end the PGA Tour. Rahm is viewed by LIV as the weakest link among top PGA Tour players. If he signs LIV will offer Rory such a big number most golf fans will excuse his past statements about the LIV Tour. Rory goes everybody follows.
PGA is showing their inability to run as a business. Their incompetence is due to years of a monopoly and complacency... Merely from a business sense I hope someone kicks their butt
Obviously the tours have rules and can punish players but as I’ve said from the beginning hey need to get rid of those rules.
Imo if a players has a card, they should be able to play as much of as little as they want. If playing too little means they lose their card, so be it. If they can keep their card playing just one event so be it.
Give your pros freedom.
But at the same time LIv should drop to 12 events and all the players on LIv should play all the events, as that is their thing having everyone there every time.
Imo the best thing for everyone is what I just described. Mom tour should be in the business of punishing the tour pros they ideally want in their events.
This whole punishing and fining pliers needs to stop.
LIv brings a lot of money to then eat players on earth.
My take is always the same, the sport needs to embrace this. We can still have all those other tours and embrace this super prosperous tour. We can still have the top pga tour ad DP world tour events …we can have it all golf world.
The commissioners just need to remember their job is to make pro golfers as much money as possible. By blocking something like LIv bringing in so much money for the players, those organizers are not doing what is best for the players.
US congress not going to look at this kindly!
Love Liv because it's the only golf I can watch free of charge just had a really enjoyable afternoon watching the qualifying it was really exciting poor old Laurie Canter in the 3 man play off had it in the palm of his hand and let it slip I can't afford Sky golf also I can't afford the ridiculous prices at the Open championship or the long journey I can afford the Liv prices at Jcb and it's in the middle of the country so win win
PGA / LIV is actually boring, it makes little difference to me where the professionals earn their money. The main issue is the majors and who qualifies and how. For the opens the option is there if not pre qualified to go through qualifying.
Saturday a cross country 9 holes at Ramside, north east England bit wet but better than I expected. Sunday 18 holes Ineos and chipping ice off my spikes for 1st 6 holes to protect the greens. Winter golf got to embrace it
Why Rory's goin to play DP TOUR he got ripped by PGA (All those million's from LIV)😂😂😂
PGA tour is and will always be the feeder tour to the LIV golf tour.
The implosion of the PGA tour is very entertaining to watch.
Comes back to the root of the argument....Are players independent contractors or contracted players ?. Answer this question and it makes everything clear cut but no one seems to be able to provide a definitive answer. Hence why it will have to go to court someday ?.
Good point to be fair
What are your thoughts of Xander Schauffele and Patrick Cantlay been linked with a move to LIV Golf over the past year?
Dafaq, that would be so good
It’s a bit like cutting all of the trump courses after hosting many successful events there for political reasons
The PGA need to get the American government to ban
Liv golf from playing in America the reason that there
Owned by another government
Played 27 holes saturday in freezing cold and was on the range after till dark freezing my nuts off, DEDICATION!
My wife thinks I’m crazy because I’m the same way 😝⛳️😜
The problem is that the pga doesn't have any leader
Never really understood the reaction of the main tours to LIV. Instead of seeing it as another professional outlet with massive amounts of money for pros to play for, they see it as a threat! Surely fining players is a restriction of trade in law? I’m surprised a main golf channel hasn’t taken up rights to show LIV golf, lots of characters, tournament innovations.
Just get this boring fight over. Want to see the best players on the planet playing against each other again.
Remember when it use to be golf and the enjoyment of watching the best players in the world. Now it's just called soap opera. What a mess!
Any PGA player that remains loyal to the PGA is both naïve and ignorant when it comes to business….
Does anything make sense in this saga?
youre not naming them so you dont know who they are name them if you do by all accounts it seems rahm could be a done deal but nothing offical yet so only speculation
This still bullshit, until there is a final future for what golf is going to be, these half baked arrangements is making the pga look like fledgling amateurs.
If they had not made greedy mistakes with ownership of pga tour members skills to be sold for marketing without them getting a half share of the financial gain, liv may not have happened, the pga tour were not looking after their talent, the other issue they have fixed is for the rookies, at least they are guaranteed and income to survive on, when first on tour.
The pga think they are the ants pants, but they nothing without their players I wish the players grew some balls and realised that they own the upper hand
"UNAUTHORISED"!!!! WTF???
PGA tour leadership sucks
And I got sucked into another hearsay rumor what if bullshit story framed as fact.
The true history of the professional game this last part of this century and the beginning of this one is the PGA tour. Thats where everyone wanted to play. Best players and best purses. Now LIV has come along and challenged the purses thing. These modern players want one thing. Max pay. LIV has backed themselves into a bit of a corner in my opinion by offering a "new product" More laid back and less stuffy so to speak. LIV should just start a tour, pay the players whatever it wants and have a few of "non standard" events to appease their base that they have established. They do that and it will become a World Tour and will relegate PGA tour and DP to the minor league of professional golf organizations in my humble opinion.
Jimmy Walker, Duffer, to name 2
"Based on discussions with staff at the Department of Justice, we chose to remove specific language from the Framework Agreement. While we believe the language is lawful, we also consider it unnecessary in the spirit of cooperation and because all parties are negotiating in good faith.".....quote from the PGA Tour after provision was removed from tentative agreement between PGA Tour and LIV tour. Perhaps the LIV Tour broke the "Good faith negotiations" when ,they pursued Rahm. Also the unused bullets in the PGA Tour's proverbial gun are the PGA of America, USGA, R&A, and Augusta National. Those organizations can require all past champions be required to be PGA/DP Tour members to receive past champion exemptions.
If the majors did that, then that's a massive lawsuit waiting to happen against them individually and collectively.
@@stryderja9570 True each player effected by the change in criteria could sue. Each organization has the right to change their exemption criteria as they wish. Corporations change contract terms all the time.
The real story here is this. The PGA Tour was willing to let members play in a qualifying tournament. They rescinded that opportunity when the story of Rahm receiving a 600 million dollar offer from LiV. Now why would LIV offer a huge sum of money, if true, to get a player when if within a year that player could chose to play in a LIV tournament as a "wildcard" entry? My opinion is that LIV wants to secure enough, maybe 15 big name players, with huge bonus money so that a buyout by them would be financially unfeasible. Now once they get those players trapped LIV could schedule their own "majors" the week of traditional majors and the small print in those big dollar contracts will require those players to play in the LIV events.
Let's face it, we're talking about the Saudis and Greg Norman here. They only purpose of offering PGA Tour players big money now is to trap them. Also in regard to the Ryder Cup, the biggest money-maker the PGA of America has, LIV could hold their own event that week with their players. If the PGA of America doesn't make a move to protect themselves they'll lose their two biggest money making events.
The Majors wouldn't be Majors anymore
@@Marky_Muk without the traditional four majors the sport of golf becomes relegated to a recreational activity.
No poaching is fair game. If anything they would be hurting the chance the merge is accepted by congress if they don’t poach now. Because it would seem they are colliding or something.
WELL THE PGA HAVE NEVER BEEN FOR THE PLAYERS THEY ALWAYS WANT TO BE JUST A MONOPALY NOTHING HAS GHANGED
Revenge for the Rahm situation
Why dont those trillionares just buy the pga tour
I might be in the minority but the tour should be able to stop every player who is under a signed contract and is getting paid to play the PGA tour from playing elsewhere. But aren’t they independent contractors?
They are independent contractors, add to that the PIP money the PGA just dispersed ($100 million) only went to the top 20 players….somebody has been selling shit sandwiches for the past 18 months to the PGA faithful…
LIV and Saudia Arabia, not good. It is still illegal to be gay in Saudi Arabia.
No blood money for PGA hahahahah they took it🎉
More meaningless gossip. Let the LIV enjoy that blood money and move on. Plenty of up and coming talent to fill the void.
Wow, Alex you are all in with both feet knee high on this LIV crap. Me no likey.
very LIV biased channel here
Most youtubers are pro-LIV Tour. It's like liking a picture of an Instagram model in hopes she'll see you as her Prince Charming.
i don’t feel like i am but fair enough!
Not really, he has a positive attitude and does not push PGA propaganda at every opportunity with a bitter and mocking tone of voice
A lot of people equate that to being very LIV biased
He started pga tour biased big time but over time could not pretend anymore. Now he is impartial. But the fact is LIv keep growing while the pga tour keep being misled.
The best players in the world or not on the PGA. Tour anymore when you get down to it
Not true. Justin Thomas had an off year and dropped to 52nd on the PGA Tour money list. There is no such thing as an off year for the big four of Koepka, Johnson, DeChambeau, Smith on the LIV Tour.
pga / manahan = 🤡