Is it ok to DISLIKE Fallout 4 now?
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- Опубликовано: 4 май 2024
- #Fallout #fallout4 #Fallout1
#classicfallout
So with all the discourse on the Fallout series, I wanted to make a video that can explain to fans, both new and old, why Fallout 4 gets the hate that it does. But also why it shouldn't discourage you from liking it. Fallout 4 brought a lot of good and bad to the series, but key issues resulted in quite a few fans going to extremes to hate the game, in both good and bad faith.
Peace!
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My disappointments
1) The Main Plot
2) Lame dialogue which is overwhelmingly superficial except for rare exceptions like getting the last tape recording from Codsworth or maybe succeeding at impressing some character, but those dialogue situations are the exceptions, compared to FO3 and NV.
3) The power armor at the beginning of the game. Yes there was the fuel needed for the power armor but finding more got easier once I realized I could get more at vendors or even in a building’s basements.
4) Factions. They were really lame as factions. I mean I could be an a-hole to the Minutemen, and they wouldn’t care. I wish I could have sided with the Gunners instead, doing Bounty Hunter missions.
My likes
1) item customization
2) building houses
3) the environment actually looked more like what an older Fallout location would appear on an East Coast setting with marshes or farms
4) Detective Nick Valentine. He’s a cool companion with his quips and film noir character tone.
Don't forget how they completely ruined the Death claws
? They’re just weak but so are they in new Vegas after like level 17 which you could get in a day mind you.
Yeah, we're like a month past premiere of the TV show and Todd got his money. Bots are off the case. We can dislike FO4 again.,
fallout 4 doesn't have a dialog tree.. it has a dialog funnel
you have 4 divverent paths to yes
Fallout 4 is more like Bioshock wearing a Fallout skinsuit
1, question, 1 no, 1 yes, 1 joke
@@user-sj4fx9ld6e don't forget that no just means yes but hesitant
Bethesda locked my creation club account cause my daughter changed my profile name, then when finally unlocked again a yr later the account has been wiped.
All purchases were gone and they say it's not their problem.
Rot in hell Bethesda
Wow, they didn't even offer you a canvas bag and a premium nuka cola dark rum for few hundreds of bucksto make up for it? (by the way better off if you go on nexus and get superior quality mods for free, rather than CC paid rubbish)
Everything wrong with New Vegas CAN be fixed with mods. Stability, mechanics from after it's time, graphics, etc. The problem with Fallout 4 is that it's issues CAN'T be fixed with mods. Theres no fix to completely overhaul bad worldbuilding and even worse storytelling.
I like Fallout 3, NV, and Fallout 4 because they all bring something to the table. When I bought a psychical copy of Fallout 4 for my Xbox it came with a digital code for Fallout 3 and I liked it so I went and checked out NV and fell in love with NV.
Fallout 4 was a fun game, but the story was so flawed and braindead that it lacked any staying power.
I put 200h into Fallout 4 but remember next to nothing of the actual story, just wandering around the wastes, doing random stuff, and building settlements.
I can recall the entirety of New Vegas from individual characters, locations, quests, lines of dialog and locations of loot to this day. New Vegas was a great meal, Fallout 4 was junk food.
I remember more of Fallout 3 than 4. I remember, while these are side quests. You meet the talking Tree named Harold. You have to find the old Violin, which involves going into the Vault database computer to find the Vault where you can find the violin. Then going into the Vault to get the violin, and then bring it back to the old lady to play the violin. All I’m saying is that the violin quest from Fallout 3 was more memorable and felt more earned than the quests from Fallout 4.
I've been playing Fallout for over 10 years. I've played most of them. Starting with Fallout 3 when I had no idea what Fallout was. I like every entry in the series. They are all different, and they were developed to be different. They all bring different aspects of Fallout to new heights and are all worth playing for different reasons.
4 is technically a good game, but it is a downgrade compared to 3 and New Vegas, Calling 4 peak is basically implying that less RPG elements makes it a better game.
Those of us from the 3/NV era got into Fallout for the RPG with Shooter elements, older fans got into Fallout for the RPG and Writing, Newer fans are in it for the gameplay and looting. (granted there is intersecting as well, like wanting the 3/NV era with 4/76's Quality of Life features and weapon customization), But i have the worry that Fallout 5 is going to strip even more RPG elements away basically being even less of an RPG than 4.
I consider Fallout 4 and a lot of ARPGs or Action RPGs to be not really RPGs, this isn’t just Fallout 4, this would include Diablo games or even Castlevania games from the IGA era to not be real RPGs either. The main idea of RPGs is your character makes decisions that define the character in the world, as well as define the world.
Is this Elijah person and Elijahcal the same person?
When has it ever been not ok ?
The majority of youtube is $hitting on fo4 and praising New Vegas as the 2nd commimg of christ .
A more controversial question is it ok to like it ?
Spoiler most will say no
You can like whatever you want. It'd be weird if you did but no one can say it's not ok lol
@panwu6602 I'm not sure some of the more passionate NV fans would agree .
@@emrik99 I mean, what can I do about you liking 4 over NV? Doesn't make any sense to me but I don't think it has to 😆
@panwu6602 I was more teasing the premise of the videos title . It comes across as if the author has the stance that trashing fo4 is somehow controversial or taboo , when the irony is how common that theme is explored.
Of course anyone can like or dislike anything they want.
@@emrik99 Quite frankly reading some comment threads around the time of TV show's release you'd think that trashing fo4 or disliking the show itself indeed were deadliest of sins. It was strange and I know what author refers to. It felt like entire YT has fallen in love with Bethesda's product.
I enjoyed fallout 4 about much as fallout 3 and New Vegas. I have never finished one because I get bored eventually of the game. The voice acting of the male protagonist never bothered me.
Nothing wrong with disliking Fallout 4, people can like & dislike what they want. I do enjoy FO4 myself, but i get more enjoyment & playtime from FO3 & NV, using the tale of two wastelands mod. It's like Skyrim too, do enjoy that, but i prefer oblivion more, and get more fun & playtime out of that, using plenty of mods with all titles mentioned here of course. In general, the older titles are a better time, and while the newer ones are still good, the older ones are just better really.
i preoredered fallout 4 and to this day have less than 60 hours in it. it was so damn boring with the railroaded story and nonexistent roleplay mechanics, the only way i'll ever enjoy the game is if they use the engine to make a different game (fallout london eventually)
I never really hated any fallout game if I’m being honest (I still need to play 1 and 2) and i honestly think each entry I played has its ups and downs and I have my favorite of course that being FO3 but I’ll always being the one saying that it’s not perfect game, the problem with this commiunity however is when you idolize a new Vegas so much that you forgive the flaws and it’s short comings and while I don’t think Bethesda are saints they aren’t the monsters that some people in this platform made them out to be (yes fallout 76 launch was… something alse) but games like cyberpunk went on a similar direction but people forgave cd project red almost after the anime came out and while I did love cyberpunk story and anime (I feel the luanch of cyberpunk was much much worse than fallout 76) this mentality of “every thing Bethesda does it’s bad” it’s contradictory since they were the one proposing to obsidian NV should be its own game and while I think fallout 4 is the weakest in the series it’s far from being a shit game there are things you can enjoy of it, also I like how these RUclipsr personalities of the “Bethesda hate wagon” creetosis, enclave Emily, ecc act like they know the series better than the creator of the franchise Tim Cain and only Lissen to Josh sawyer or Chris avvellone that remind that yes they wrote the lore but didn’t created it tim did he build this franchise from scratch and Chris and company came later to help him out and this doesn’t mean we shouldn’t Lissen to josh or Chris (quite the contrary) i Lissen to the opinions of the three bc they are the ones I trust the most but here the problem, all them have different vision of fallout should be (as reminder to any special person who follow creetosis or any other “special” person Chris Avellone wanted to nuke shady sanse since fallout 2, so it seems a bit hypocritical from him saying that but then again that’s a problem with the show it’s sometimes vauge that we don’t know but still any person who knows how to read and significance of word “fell” on empires knows fell means that nation started to tell) this commiunity exspecially the NV fanboys can’t accept that new Vegas isn’t a perfect game its not the second coming of Jesus its good game ruined by its commiunity people should stop wining and start thinking with their own heads instead of lissening to video essays or morons like creetosis who just speak the most stupid arguments on the planet like he created fallout he didn’t he is just some pretecius Redditor same with enclave Emily
Why is this just a dark screen with NO fallout 4 gameplay?..
Fallout 4 haters have never played fallout 4, only new vegas
It’s brighter after a few mins, was just doing boones companion mission which is super dark lmao. Also I’m doing an unmodded fo4 playthrough, and I genuinely feel like none of the gameplay is more entertaining than my modded FNV.
@@TheTroll10 🤡🤡🤡
@@syndicalistcat3138 go back to doing yet another fallout new vegas legion playthrough
@@TheTroll10 Never did once so thanks for the tip! Go back and cry in front of your Todd the Godd shrine and seeth more!
Fallout 4 is bad. I didn't watch the video and I refuse to elaborate
Fallout 3 doesnt get a "pass" from me, it gets a hug and kiss and more touchy touchies. The gameplay and world overshadow its weaker/reused story. That "i paid ten!" Poor Sandy, Gets me every time, its cause shes an air breather...
Have you tried Tales of Two Wasteland?
you shouldn't be allowed near schools
@@Pretender6 I'm playing through it right now, but have been solely playing fallout 3 stuff without traveling over lol I completely forgot to travel over. I also some how have managed to make level 25 without getting the power armor training.
@@maestrofeli4259 Good, I shouldn't be trifling on your turf. 😂 I had to say it.
I like fallout 4 and 3 in different ways. For me boath are good.
Now? I disliked Fallout 4 since release. Never bought a Bethesda game since.
This might just be a personal thing, but I prefer fnv Combat
Fallout
Where's the water chip? WHERE'S YOUR POWER ARMOR! Where's Dad? Where's my package? Where's my son? Where the hell am I? "Fallout... Fallout never changes..."
@@dynomitejecYou forgot “Where’s the guy who shot me?”
The only reason it was cool to like Fallout 4 is Bethesda ordered us and instructed us that it was "teh bestest Fallout EVER!!!!1111onetwothreefour" through a bunch of influencers saying so. And of course the people who only know about it through the TV series are going to eat it up, and Bethesda will make a lot of money. After all, Bethesda just spent all that effort making a remaster of FO4, and the TV series is meant to push that particular installment, specifically. If you want proof of that, look at the fact that season 1 featured a Gulper and not a Deathclaw.
I like making a character build playing games. Fallout 4's "perks" just make number go up. It's boring
The show has really made me appreciate Fallout 4 a lot more. I still think Fallout 3 was the best experience while New Vegas was the best story. But I've been playing Fallout 4 , and more than anything it makes me feel like it's one of the last of it's kind. We really haven't gotten a game like this since... and when you compare it to a lot of AAA games today, it kind of makes me feel like games were made better 10 years ago.
good video I agree
I have a love/mild pet peeve with this game... On the whole I like it. But the lack of dialogue and rewards or consequences of dialogue are gone. The voiced protagonist was a bad idea. I don't mind the settlement system but I absolutely hate Preston. I hate how useless the Minutemen are without mods... I've literally had to outfit my settlers as freaking Predators with Predator weapons in order to have them take care of themselves... only possible with mods. I love and dislike the way combat was handled. In New Vegas, your aim is a little wonky at first but when you level up your gun skill, you can aim really well and stable... in FO4, you're a crackshot right out the gate... I love the smoother gun gameplay but I feel no skill increase in using guns... the factions in New Vegas are fun and varied, the FO4 factions are crap and slim pickings by comparison.
I’m curious if you felt this too, assuming you play on pc. but I’m doing my first unmodded playthrough of 4 on pc, and does the aiming feel kind of floaty to you? Playing without my combat mods feels incredibly jank. Everything’s a bullet sponge on normal too. Better gunplay than base NV for sure, but I can’t describe it really, it just feels off.
@@MBSMythic I have never gotten to play FO4 on PC yet. Series X currently. I found myself snapping to headshots pretty easy with a controller by comparison to the lack of aiming in 3 or early level New Vegas gun sights... with that said, yea, some creatures in 4 are absolutely bullet sponges and this is why I carry a nasty sword on my character in every playthrough called Krenah's tooth (I could be wrong about the spelling)... it's in the bottom of a well in a quarry, best melee weapon in the game, great for dealing with those creatures that won't go down, one hits most things, or severely injures at the least.
As a fallout 1+2 veteran i liked that fallout 3 brought us fallout into the third dimension but 4 ??? Sry the only thing it has in common with fallout is the setting
Not even that, just the name, it feels and looks nothing like the original Fallout games!
@@syndicalistcat3138 true
Fallout 4 is a decent game. Its a joke of a fallout game.
Fallout means something different to everyone, though. No offense, but that argument just sounds kinda like gatekeeping imo
@@franzsanders9573 But it should not, Black Isle made a specific game with a very specific setting, atmosphere, aesthetics. Fallout is only what the creators made it to be nothing else!
@@syndicalistcat3138 Haven’t you heard of “Death of the Author”? The creators’ outlook on their work is only one way of looking at it - The outlooks we the players have are just as valid as theirs.
@@franzsanders9573 Outlook or inlook I dont care, the fact is if one does not make a game just like Black Isle did its not Fallout its a fanfiction or even less! If I would rewrite half of LotR that wouldn't be LotR anymore, same thing aplies to Fallout!
@@syndicalistcat3138 What a terrible argument. What about doing something new with the franchise, something creative & interesting & not just stuck on repeating the same old thing? If you only stick to doing exactly what was done before, that’s the same kind of mindset that gets you Jarhead sequels.
Also in regards to the title, of course it's ok to dislike Fallout 4. Obviously.
It's just scummy, toxic behavior to gatekeep and insult people for the games they like. Just in general.
This isn't an edgerunners situation, which many are acting like it is. And gatekeeping is such a stupid word as I said before, All it exists to do is alienate OG players from the community that's flooded with hordes of people pushing for shallow game mechanics in series that once had depth.
@@MBSMythic I've seen people tell other people they hope they never have children because they like Fallout 4. I've seen people accuse fans of Fallout 3 of not being 'real fans'. How is that not gatekeeping? I'm not saying all old school Fallout fans are like this; I'm saying some of them are, in fact, like this, and so the term 'gatekeeping' is relevant, sadly.
"shallow game mechanics... franchise used to have depth", can you be a bit specific? A vague, generalized statement is just... a vague, generalized statement.
Ie, Fallout 4 is *way more in depth* than Fallout 1 or 2 when it comes to................. settlement building.
Fallout 4 is also *way more in depth* than Fallout 1 or 2 when it comes to............. scavenging and crafting.
Fallout 4 is also *way more in depth* than Fallout 1 or 2 when it comes to............. high stakes high risk/high reward gameplay through it's survival mode.
When you lament the tragedy that the franchise "no longer has depth"... what do you mean? Ie, what are some game mechanics in which Fallout 1 and Fallout 2 'have more depth'?
Note, I enjoyed Fallout 1 and 2, and I know how I personally would answer this question. But I think it's silly to say the franchise just simply, categorically lacks depth... even when it has clearly gained depth in other ways (just ways that may or may not appeal to you and/or other fans of the older games - which is fine).
@@commandershepard9920I found settlement building incredibly repetitive and thin for what it is. Building something then getting endlessly called to defend settlements, no matter how well off their resources are, and no matter how thoroughly I annihilate all the nearby areas with who knows how much killing animals and people around that settlement, it’s just please help them and kill someone who is coming to attack it. I mean it’s cool you can build some custom elements, but it was so redundant how much every settlement would get attacked. If you like it. All the more to you. I could just care less by the repetition.
@@KaosNova2 Nah, personally I don't like that particular aspect of the game myself.
But I've seen some people create some crazy stuff and really get into it. My only point is for those kinds of people, they're obviously engaging (rather deeply) in a specific part of the game that obviously isn't in any of the previous Fallout games, and thus is obviously more 'in depth' than those other games which lack this mechanic.
@@commandershepard9920 "I've seen people tell other people they hope they never have children because they like Fallout 4." So just an average day on the internet?
""shallow game mechanics... franchise used to have depth"" Settlement building lacks any depth, why do people not try and build anything themselves while you're out traveling, why do you have to baby sit all these adults that are perfectly capable of working and building. Dialogue definitely lacks depth we went form a system of having multiple responses to 1 question, 1 yes, 1 no, 1 sarcastic yes with very few cases of that not being the case, the loss of the skill system in place of a level based perk system (look specifically at lockpicking and hacking) is a complete downgrade to gameplay, as well as the perk system being downgraded you have 70 perks to choose from and while they all have extra ranks that do different things most of them is just "make perks original effect stronger" in place of the having many unique single perks and few with multiple ranks.
I don't think that people who like fallout 4 are bad or have anything bad to say about them (hell I have over 1000 hours in the game) but the game has objective issues and objective downgrades.
Interplay, this Todd. I need faiv billion endorsements from Fallout's previous game directors to calm down the detractors. Slava Bethesda.
I haven't seen this video yet, so I'm just commenting on the title so far.
9 years of countless, countless videos bashing Fallout 4.
Now recently...... TWO videos get made praising the game? And one of them only as an entry title?
And *already* there's a response video with a title of, "Is it even ok to dislike Fallout 4 anymore?! Omg guys, the 99.9 % of videos trashing it while saying the same things over and over and over and over... has dropped to 99.8 %!!!"
Obviously exaggerating (a bit), but you get the point.
Far more than 2, I've seen like 10-20 with 50k+ views, multiple of them arguing that the game is better than New vegas or that hating on Fallout 4 isn't "Cool or OK" anymore. I just flat out disagree, The game irreversibly changed the franchise into something unrecognizable. Bethesda is incompetent and doesn't deserve praise on a game thats been mid for 9+ years. Starfield is further proof that Bethesda is way past its prime, and their definition of an RPG is a story game with a CAC and a basic ass skill tree. If new fans think old fans complaints are gatekeeping, that is literally too bad. Not that gatekeeping isn't just a buzzword to normalize unwanted changes, shill companies, and invalidate complaints of original players anyway.
@@MBSMythic Fallacy here, Starfield has nothing to do with Fallout 4.
"Sorry Capcom, Resident Evil 4 is actually trash because you also made Resident Evil 6."
Fallout 4 is 'mid', why though? Mid period, unilaterally? Or 'mid' in specific ways, ones which you personally and specifically prioritize?
10-20 videos... that's kind of a big range? But taking your word for it... if a bunch of videos are being made 9 years later praising Fallout 4 as 'great', how is that a bad thing? That so many people are discovering a game they like?
And I think we define gatekeeping differently. To me, gatekeeping isn't hating on a game, whether it's done well (Ie, Fallout 4's dialogue wheel was simplified too much) or it's done poorly (Ie, Fallout 4 is bad).
What crosses the line is when you start judging people for liking newer Fallout games, or claim they aren't 'real fans' or some such nonsense. And I've seen this happen plenty of times.
@@commandershepard9920 that’s not what I was saying. Starfield is a litmus test of sorts, which shows declining quality in Bethesdas newest titles. This can be seen in multiple Bethesda subsidiaries and Bethesda themselves. Fallout 76, starfield, redfall, Wolfenstein new colossus, etc. it’s very obvious that quality control on their end has been lacking since 2017.
Mid objectively. Building settlements and marginally better combat do not wash away the layers of depth removed from the combat in previous titles. Things like dt, skills, ammo types and ammo crafting/recycling, mods that have noticeable effects on the combat, etc. fallout 4 waters down every RPG system into what you would see in any other story driven action rpg game. Including dialogue and branching paths in quests. It has less depth than new Vegas in nearly every way.
It’s a bad thing because it’s encouraging people to settle with these changes instead of damnding more fleshed out rpg mechanics in the future. It’s lazy and only serves to make the game worse in favor of a dumbed down arpg looter shooter, which the series was never known for. The aesthetic changes are unrecognizable to the originals and everyone can see that the new styles weapons look absolutely awful. They delve way too deep into science fiction retro futurism aesthetic to the point of losing that real world style they once had.
Gatekeeping to me is non existent. If you can’t be a fan of something because someone else says as game in the series is bad, then it seems like you were more interested in the community/social media aspect than the games themselves. Which again just says you weren’t really a fan in the first place, just a tourist.
I agree with your last point, judging a person based on what they like is stupid. Tastes are different and that’s a reality we all need to accept. But I’m never going to say “I’ll just accept new fallout because other people like it.” My love for old fallout is just as valid as their love for new fallout.
@@MBSMythic Ain't no way you're going to read all of this, but here goes anyway.
If you're saying Bethesda has been lacking quality control since 2017 and Fallout 4 was released in (and developed much sooner than) 2014, then this point seems even less relevant.
Mid 'objectively'. Clearly not, not if so many people are making videos saying it's their favorite. Ie, building settlements is huge for people who are really into that; to the point where all of the *other* fallout games might seem mid by comparison if they really love this feature.
'Marginally better' combat? You're again claiming objectivity in an area that is clearly subjective. To me, gunplay in Fallout 4 is *night and day different* from Fallout 3 and NV. The guys at Id outdid themselves here (as they typically do). And if you're someone who cares a great deal about how the guns themselves 'feel' when you use them (as I do), then this is a *big* point in Fallout 4's favor, and though *you* dismiss it, for *me* it's a big reason why I come back to Fallout 4 so easily.
'dt' - again, you saying you prefer it doesn't make it objectively better. DT is more similar to hard damage reduction, which although is more realistic, it also leads to asymmetric combat in which some weapons in some situations are useless. Again, more realistic sure, but I prefer 4's formula which smooths out DR so that high amounts of it will protect you from high damage attacks, but there's essentially a 'limit' to much it will protect you from weak attacks; it keeps more enemies in the game more threatening. And of course this cuts both ways; my legendary combat rifle I earned from a tense fight from that legendary Gunner with 4+ hours of gameplay on the line (Survival) will never be useless. You're not wrong for preferring realism, if you do; but it doesn't make you 'objectively' right.
'skills' - Again, it isn't objectively better, *especially* if we're also including Fallout 3 and NV, in which skill points are literally useless except for at specific increments (25, 50, etc). Fallout 4 has skills too; they're tied to perks and how you spend perk points. This actually gives you *more* flexibility as instead of being forced to be a bit more well rounded (ie, every level you gain some noncombat skills), you *choose* when and how much to invest perk points into combat perks vs noncombat perks (ie lockpicking etc). It's streamlined, sure, but not at the expense of player choice, which is what RPGs are about.
'ammo types/ammo crafting' - agreed. But then you're missing all of the crafting Fallout 4 has; from weapon mods (changing a plasma rifle to a flamer, etc), to armor mods (do I want better protection from explosions? better stealth? longer lasting chems? how will this synergize with my perks?) Not to mention Fallout 4 is literally the only title that gives you a real reason to collect 'junk', making every item you find potentially useful. It better simulates being a true prospector in the post apocalypse in this regard.
"fallout 4 waters down every RPG system into what you would see in any other story driven action rpg game." Except it literally doesn't. Borderlands 2 doesn't have item crafting/weapon modding. Mass Effect doesn't have different factions you can join vs war against etc. The Witcher 3 doesn't have settlement building. Cyberpunk 2077 doesn't let you break any item you can find into scrap.
"It has less depth than new Vegas in nearly every way." Again, no, it literally doesn't, and this is coming from someone whose favorite Fallout game is NV. NV has more depth in characters, story based consequences, lore and factions, etc; all things I love. But Fallout 4 has more depth in gunplay, item crafting/synergizing with builds, settlements, and my personal favorite, survival mode for giving high risk/high reward gameplay (limited saves/losing progress vs adrenaline/legendary loot); none of the other Fallouts (including NV) have anything resembling Survival mode.
As far as earlier Fallouts being more realistic (except for the Radscorpian that can play chess lol), more well written, better lore, etc etc; I totally get it. That IS what the franchise has been known for, and if that's why *you* love the franchise, I can see how the Bethesda titles can irritate you. But some people don't get their immersion from text dumps (even well written ones as they are in Fallout 1 and 2), but rather through the gameplay itself, and hence why they might find the 3D games more immersive even if they're not as well written. Josh Sawyer himself articulated this better than I am when he actually praised Fallout 4 for it's focus on 'immersion through simulation', which is different traditionally well told stories through lots of text.
"Gatekeeping to me is non existent. If you can’t be a fan of something because someone else says as game in the series is bad, then it seems like you were more interested in the community/social media aspect than the games themselves. Which again just says you weren’t really a fan in the first place, just a tourist."
I'm sorry, at the risk of sounding rude, this seems like a really bad faith argument. Of course gatekeeping exists; but just because someone tries to gatekeep doesn't mean you have to let it affect you. Maybe we're just defining it differently; to me, gatekeeping is when you try to define fan vs nonfan based on the games they like, simple as that. Call it crummy behavior instead, or whatever you want, if you like, but my larger point is I almost never see a Fallout 3 or 4 fan try to say you're not a real fan if you only like 1 and 2; whereas I do see the reverse. Frequently.
EDIT: Also, the irony of claiming that gatekeeping 'doesn't exist' while calling people 'tourists' is peak.
Lastly, I do agree with you that it's ok to demand more from games, and really, why can't we have our cake and eat it too? Fallout 4 is a lot of fun to me. The tension it gives me in Survival mode is unique compared to every other Fallout. But it *could* have been even better if it had better writing, and given how much I like the rest of the game, I badly, badly wish it did, even if it's still one of my favorites in the franchise all things considered.
And yes, your love for old fallout is just as valid as their love for new fallout. I personally love all Fallout that I've played, for different reasons. NV and 4 are my favorites, which funny enough, are very different from each other and succeed in very different ways.
@@commandershepard9920 The replies seem to be getting longer and longer, with no side really changing sides so I'll give one last response for brevity.
1. Fallout 4 was in development in 2008-9, but that doesn't change much. I didn't say 2015 because for all intents and purposes Fallout 4 is a stable and finished product. It just possess things I dislike. That point was more so establishing that I have little faith for the franchise going into the future, and it compounds with Fallout 4 and the recent decline of quality at BGS.
2. I don't really find it to be subjective, on all of these gameplay points. Fallout 4's RPG mechanics are all watered down in comparison to FNV, FO1, and FO2. The skill tree is a watered down version of the skill system that is very clearly dumbed down and lacks optional variety. Each perk is usually just a % increase on a weapon type or armor, with very little variation in the tree, none of them offer any dialogue choices or interesting affects on your interactions with the world other than some flashy combat bonuses. The special system is so dumbed down to the point where you can just max INT + STR and immediately become so overpowered that the game will just be a cakewalk. And special skills don't make gameplay feel much different beyond Intelligence for fast leveling. Charisma might only save you a couple combat encounters/Caps making it virtually useless. Every SPECIAL stat in FNV can alter dialogue and add to the narrative, in 4 they are mostly cosmetic save for str and int. I will argue this forever, these games don't even compare. They could've replaced the skill tree with Mass effects and the game play changes would have been minimal.
3. Fallout 4's crafting is nothing but frosting, it looks cool but doesn't change much from the base weapons themselves. Its the FNV modding system with flair and the ability to change energy pistols into rifles/add a full auto feature. From what I see, the only meaningful thing you do with it is adding stocks/extended mags to legendary weapons. New vegas Mods + Ammo on top of the DT system require you to strategize much more with how you play assuming your not just playing on very easy or using dmg multiplier mods. Fallout 4 is just picking whatever weapon you have with the highest dps.
4. Fallout 4s depth in gunplay is downright laughable man, its point and click much like every other game. It just feels smoother because its not running on an engine from 1997 that has a forced stutter added through the engine because the base game can't run above a certain tick rate due to RAM limitations. It's not doom 2016 or Wolfenstein NO, It's serviceable, not notable. But smoothness doesn't add any level of depth, it just feels cleaner to play than an un-modded new vegas. To which if you can mod, B42's overhauls of the combat far surpass even modded Fallout 4s combat in terms of fluidity.
5. The building system is pretty basic in most regards. I never found it to add much to my playthroughs besides just being another place to store gear. If you're in the game for this, then sure. But I doubt that really constitutes many players. I would wager 99% of players probably haven't built up a settlement other than the first few, It's really not impressive nor does it make up for the loss of depth in story characters, etc.
6. Mass effect does let you choose factions in each game actually. And they have massive effects on your endings, no pun intended... In 3 you have choices to save the quarian or geth, in 2 you can either betray or stand with cerberus and a few other minor factions, and in 1 theres several factions involved with the fight with Saren and the ending you get based on who you helped and didn't. Borderlands crafting is dumbed down but it exists in the form of re-rolling weapons with keys and some other methods from memory. And the addition of one additional system, such as building doesn't just automatically not make it an ARPG. And CP2077 still has crafting systems, one minor part of 4's not being in the game doesn't mean they aren't identical.
7. That statement has nothing in it that would mislead or deceive someone, not bad faith at all. I genuinely believe that you aren't a fan of something just because you say or think you are. The word "Fan" is short for Fanatic, a Fanatic would play the games they enjoy for the games themselves. Not for the approval of others. Tourist isn't some derogatory term, I call myself a tourists in my next video when mentioning dead space. I've beaten every game, yet I don't consider myself a Fan of dead space. I don't engage with it at all other than when new games release. I think this online culture of "everything has to be one massive community" is extremely annoying. And leads to things like "gatekeeping" in the first place. Fans of older games will consider fans of newer games "Not fans" because it's true to them. If you go up to a classic car club with a brand new porche 911, they will say "Thats neat, but that doesn't belong in the classic car club." Are they gatekeeping the porche driver because they have standards on who they want to associate with? With every group and sub-group there will be rules, if you don't want to conform, that is completely fine. But don't just assume they have to accept you because you share a slightly similar interest. Gatekeeping doesn't exist because it's very meaning is that someone online is telling you that you cannot like something. Which is absolutely meaningless. Again its just a buzzword used to label & alienate people who don't want radical changes. Because online the people who want change arent the problem, the people who want consistency are for some reason. I don't see irony in it at all, It's a term to describe something literal, Tourists are people who only play things that are new and or popular. You can still be a Fallout fan if you like 4, but if you just played it due to the show and have no plans on continuing the series until Fallout 5. Yeah, tourist
I do agree with the have your cake and eat it too, I would love to play a game with the story and depth of new vegas with Fallout 4's gameplay.(Maybe tweaked a bit for modern smoothness but you get the point.) Like I mentioned in this video, but Starfield has put my confidence in Bethesda at an all time low. And with Microsoft steering the ship, it's even lower to be frank.
Holy shit I need to cut this, but for the record. My favorite Fallout isn't new vegas. It's actually Fallout 1 > NV > 2, in that order. I just like the FNV aesthetic a little more :-)
Agree to disagree
Mechanically, it's great (with a few exceptions). Story and lore wise, it's a mess.
Fallout 4 was always trash, 22 minutes of your life spared.
Yeah, but its fun to discuss :)
I still remember how hyped I was when they anounced it, I expected a good RPG after NV no game was as dissapointing for me. Their newer "magnum opus" Shitfield only made my stance and opinion about Bethesda can't make a good RPG even stronger.
@@syndicalistcat3138 Yeah they seem to have lost it. I still played 4 for like a couple hundred hours so it wasnt a terrible game but havn't had the desire to replay since the survival mode which was enjoyable too to be fair.
Just disappointing as a Fallout game. Starfield just never gave me the impression it was going to be my thing, then it released to universal trashing. At this point, I don't even care about es6 anymore really, I'm happy enough replaying the old games periodically.
And yeah, it is fun to talk about I was just being cheeky lol. This is my shit. Go well, have a good one mate.
@@jaysgamesroom4853 Thanks! Have a good one you aswell!
Dislike whatever you want, but if you go flapping your gums about it, you have to put up with those who don't feel the same. Just sayin'...
Lost me at zoomers to boomers
Thank you for telling me
what the fuck do you mean "is it ok"
its always ok to dislike a game
is the internet really that brainrotten that theres a law when its ok or not to dislike a game now?
If you watched the video you would see that the title is meant to make fun of all the videos that imply that hating fallout 4 is a problem because the show was good.
@@MBSMythic yeah i realised that once i started watching
@@MBSMythic As a Classic Fallout fan the show was not that good! Full of retcons and contradictions don't forget the plot holes too!
@@syndicalistcat3138 agreed, the show is fun if you turn your brain off. But as a continuation of the series it’s mid at best.
@@MBSMythic I would not say that regressing back to zero and erasing what the og devs created is mid. I would say something else but youtube wont let me...
Internet law has made it ok to hate NV mostly due to fans and made it ok to like fallout 76 and 4 but mostly 76 cause i seen meny like 4 in the past
if u haven’t played fallout, just play 4 first then 3 and lastly new vegas (preferably modded)
What a self-conscious video. You're acting like anything post New Vegas isn't still widely disliked by a healthy amount of fans.
Room temp RUclips commenter watch the video past the first 20 seconds challenge: impossible. I was addressing the slew of new videos saying that it’s no longer ok to hate on fallout 4.
@@MBSMythic I saw the video beforehand but it doesn't change my point. New fans aren't concerned with why old fans don't like a thing and don't need to be. You really didn't need to make a video "explaining" the old fandom for them. It's okay that this is really more for yourself to vent, but we go back to my first comment.
@@verymelonman12 this video is for everyone? Yes it can give new fans info they might not know. But old hardcore fans can also get affirmation on their own opinions and maybe it makes them feel like they aren’t the only one who prefers old fallout to new fallout. You’ll find that humans enjoy affirmation and redundancy. That’s about 90% of the content on RUclips
I like playing Fallout 4. It relaxes me. I played Fallout 3 end New Vegas too. Fallout 4 had me switching playing games as a woman because it was hard for me to see my wife being shot.
I mostly liked your video, but I have an issue with what you say at 15 minutes and onward.
Fact is: Fallout 4 is NOT an RPG. It's not even ambiguous. The definition of an RPG is literally in the name: A game where you PLAY a ROLE. You cannot do that in Fallout 4.
Classic Fallout games were always deliberately vague with their backstory for the character: You're from Vault 13. You're from a Tribal Village. You grew up in Vault 101. You're a courier. That's it. Everything else is for you to decide. At most they imposed a backstory on some familiy members, like the Chosen One being related to the Vault Dweller or the Lone Wanderer's parents working on project purity. Hell, even BoS did that, by only telling you that you're a Brotherhood Initiate and nothing else, and that game wasn't even supposed to be an RPG. (That's why I don't particularly like Lonesome Road very much, because it retroactively forces a backstory on the player, dozens of hours after character creation.)
But in Fallout 4, your character and your background has been pre-selected for you: You're either Nate the soldier or Nora the lawyer, a cis-heterosexual husband/wife with exactly one male child and a robot butler, living in suburban Boston. You can probably even calculate the couple's income from where they live and what's in their house. The game might let you change the character's attributes and look, but just stats and numbers don't make an RPG. At the end of the day you will never be able to play, say, a homosexual, because you're always going to be a variation of Nate the soldier or Nora the lawyer.
This is not meant to put the game down in any way: It doesn't HAVE to be an RPG to be a great game. And it IS a great game for what it wants to be: A fun looter shooter with a leveling system. But misidentifying its genre is precisely what caused the disconnect for a lot of classic Fallout fans in the first place, because they went into the game with wrong expectations due to false advertisement.
On a side note: I am still confused why Bethesda decided to force a backstory upon a Fallout protagonist when they manage so flawlessly to keep it vague in Elder Scrolls. In each mainline Elder Scrolls game you're a prisoner - and that is all she wrote. The rest is up to the player. (Except for Daggerfall, but that game's premise is equally as vague: You're working for the Emperor. And I specifically said "mainline" Elder Scrolls to exclude Redguard.) They could have had their cake and eat it, too.
All of your gripes about the in-game mechanics in Fallout 4 compared to New Vegas only tells me that The Sole Survivor is a Synth. Great Vidya, btw.
New conspiracy, Vault 111 wasn't for cryo stasis. It was VR pods
if its ok to dislike 4, then it should be ok to dislike new vegas, because i dont really like new vegas compared to 4 and 76
That’s completely fine, just be willing to accept opinions and objective facts relating and comparing the two.
Sure is fine. But objective criticism need to be faced, or else you enter the tribalistic fanboy zone that has no logic only emotion. Fallout 4 is objectively poorly written and badly crafted to leave you only the illusion of choice and not a real one (but I still like it because the visuals and world have their charm), one is a masterpiece (I don't even know if I like it, never played it, but is very well crafted story that holds up to scrutiny), and finally one (76) is just a scam to sell you microtransactions and fake canvas bags.
@@MBSMythic Just imagine how great would have been fallout 4 if they put a portion of the passion of NV into it (and ditched the "4 different options to say" yes dialogue). Wasted opportunity, thank god for mods.
Speaking as someone who’s been playing Fallout 4 ever since the game released (and have been playing Fallout games ever since about 2012 or so), while I can intellectually understand a lot of the criticisms of the game, I’ve never been able to _emotionally_ agree with most of them. It’s one of my favorite games period and my personal pick for the best game in the franchise. I’m also of the opinion that pretty much everything negative about the game has already been talked about and been done to death at this point - It’s way more interesting imo to see someone praising something than tearing it apart. I hope more positive videos are released about Fallout 4 moving forward, as the game’s really underrated and I think it’ll be more interesting to see more positive takes on the game, especially when a lot of compliments “allowed” about the game feel backhanded. After all, why bitch about something you hate when you can instead praise something you love?
Venting about things that disappoint you is a healthy way of expressing yourself on an individual level. This doesn't include toxic targeting of others of course, but these things affect the future of the franchise. People who want new vegas like fallout games now have to live with the fact that they aren't the target audience of the series anymore. The series will forever continue down the path of being an action RPG looter shooter because that is what sells to the casual audience.
Keep being based, whoever you are❗️❗️
@@MBSMythic I guess my mindset is that people have been endlessly complaining about Fallout 4 for roughly 9 years now, and there’s at least a dozen RUclipsrs who have viciously complained about the game. I feel like adding to that is just regressive & pointless, and makes you come across as lazy & not willing to think outside of the box. You’re clearly intelligent & genuinely creative, so it’s a real shame to see you seemingly just play to the crowd instead of trying to be more challenging & interesting by talking more about Fallout 4’s strengths or just making a completely different video essay about another, more interesting topic that relates to you personally.
Or, to be blunt, why do we need yet another video essay complaining about Fallout 4 when there’s so damn many of them already across RUclips? What else can you really add at this point that hasn’t been already talked about elsewhere? Why not do something more interesting, positive & challenging?
@@MBSMythic Or, to put it even more bluntly, sure, it’s okay to dislike Fallout 4… but that’s because virtually every terminally online vocal Fallout fan seems to and monopolizes the conversation to encourage that mindset. And thus, saying Fallout 4 is good and that it’s ok to like it is way more rare & deserves to be given more weight since it doesn’t get to be treated as valid of an opinion as the opposite outlook does.
@@MBSMythic Venting about things that disappoint you is a healthy way of expressing yourself... but not *9 years later* .
It's always been okay to dislike Fallout 4 because it's honestly pretty dogshit. But it's a lot better for modding and generally prettier (until the recent update).
You can kinda enjoy playing Fallout 4 if you look at it only as a Fallout-themed sandbox with no supstance. Just turn off your brain, go shoot some Super Mutants and collect aluminium cans.
I agree, it’s a looter shooter with light rpg elements in my opinion. Not bad, just disappointing.
It has terrible writing and dialogue and very little player choice, but I do find its gameplay loop fun especially on survival. Awful fallout rpg, solid shooter/survival/light rpg
Surprised to hear Schizo Elijah's name drop. I for one miss them dearly
No need to go to bat on behalf of Bethesda - no need to give them credit.
Was there a need for you to make this comment? Lol
@@frankiepine7551 Yes. :)
I love how everyone is just afraid of Creetosis at this point.
There is a clear separation of quality between the Fallout trilogy made by the OG creators and the Bethesda fallout games. Not saying that Bethesda games arent fun to play, but they're objectively just not good games.
With all the videos talking about how FO4 is trash that have been on youtube for year's, some with millions of views, yeah its always been okay. Usually pretty accepted to criticize it.
Gotta love how a New Vegas stan saw a few videos popping up recently made about Fallout 4 actually being good, and instantly lost their mind, completely ignoring the years of New Vegas stans shitting on it.
its been okay to not like the game for 9 years now lol it is a really dumbed down fallout experience
No, it isn’t.
Hate to break it to you, but you’re in the minority and most people love the game.
@@hellohi9230 looks like the comment section for your video seem to align with my view more than yours… 4 is fine but like others have said, it lacks a lot of depth compared to the previous two. Why you getting so butthurt lol
@@pajamaperson4203 oh wow a 500 view RUclips video that is an extremely small portion of the fan base with an even smaller portion of the fan base☠️☠️
You’re in the extreme minority. Most people love the game.
It hasn’t won multiple awards, played by tens of thousands of people on average daily for almost a decade and been critically acclaimed for nothing.
@@hellohi9230same thing as before. I can’t follow your argument because it’s based on corporate awards and what others think.
@@arln2780 cope.
The game is objectively peak, with only the story being meh. And you also haven’t even played the game so your pretentious opinion is worthless
I appreciate the Creetosis jab.
Why
😂 Video is so sad. Need a life.
new vegas sucks. my first play through at launch was unplayable as there was a game breaking bug that crashed the game and corrupted the save file after leaving Goodsprings
14 years you've had that opinion? Even though all Bethesda games have shit launches? I've never experience any issue playing the game on pc, unmodded too
You probably deserved that.
I mean it sounds like you had one bad experience and just hated it from there on out. I hated oblivion the first time I played it, but later on realized it was a great game.
Cry about it.
Fallout 4 is objectively peak.
It’s literally the most popular and well-selling game in the franchise.
It's so funny seeing these comments in the wild. You must only listen to you, watch and consume the most popular media, right?
Taylor Swift is your favourite artist. Squid games is your favourite show, and Marvel movies are the only movies worth watching, right?
@@johndiddilyjoe6258 wtf are you talking about?
And no, while I don’t, you’re not somehow superior because you “consume underrated media” or whatever. You sound like a pretentious manchild. Grow up.
@@johndiddilyjoe6258 wtf are you talking about? You’re projecting.
And no, while I don’t, you come across as a pretentious manchild. “Ooh me so better because I not like popular stuff!!” grow up.
@@johndiddilyjoe6258 what are you talking about? You’re projecting.
And no, while I don’t, u come across as a pretentious manchild. “Ooh me so better because I not like popular stuff!!” grow up.
@@johndiddilyjoe6258 wtf are you talking about? You’re projecting.
And no, while I don’t, you come across as a pretentious manchild. “Ooh me so better because I not like popular stuff!!” grow up.