Watched this again as I have a bunch of dragon stone I bought cheap that has been sitting for a year on the shelf waiting for a "big" tank. Will be washing the heck out of it this week with a sprayer hose because I got a 40g last week:) I love that you have so many excellent videos to choose from. Next will be searching your channel to re-watch substrate and aquascape videos. Queuing them up to watch on my rainy days this week:)
Great video Alex. Very informative. I have been considering getting dragonstone, and now I have been having second thoughts about it. I will be very careful before I add any to my tanks!
Yeah if possible buy a lb and let it soak in a bucket 4 or 5 days and test the tds before and after. That seems to work well from all the people I have discussed it with (and myself). Thanks John!
Thank you for this invaluable information! I just bought some dragon stone for an aquascape I'm planning and I just bought a TDS meter that I'll definitely be using before I add any fish to it!
Right on! Just make sure it doesn't turn your acidic/neutral tank to hard alkaline 8.2 or 8.5 ph water ... tds is okay a bit, If you already have a decent amount or plan for it. Always better safe than sorry though! Best of luck!
For months my shrimp tank’s tds was always increasing and many shrimp died. I had a suspicion that it was the dragon stone and you confirmed it for me too. Thank you!
Ok, that explains why the kribs got sick. I remember coming across something where vinegar could be used to test rocks to see if they'd be aquarium safe. If you noticed a chemical reaction with the vinegar, then that rock could alter the water chemistry. That was a method used as a suggestion for unknown rocks found out in the wild. I suppose that could also be used to determine if it's the kind of dragon stone that's safe for aquariums or not.
Very helpful as I'm in the process of working on an aquascape with several different types of stone and had questions about a piece of dragon stone I bought online.
After just buying dragon stone setup for new tank, I look for videos on how to clean and was happy to see you had content! Not so happy it is potentially negative. They look so awesome, I hope mine is ok. I have cleaned very thoroughly, can't believe how much clay and muck still poured out after soaking in hot water for an hour and then spraying with hose and soaking in hot water for an hour...etc. So much. Disturbing! Will do tests in bucket as you suggested before using them in my upcoming scape! Thankyou!
I just got 20 pounds of the CaribSea Exotica dragon stone via a promo at a popular big box store. While I can't deny it's beauty, I do have some concerns about dissolved solids after handling it and spending several painstaking hours with a nail, a pair of tweezers, and a toothbrush detailing it. Only to have it still dripping muck out of various holes after multiple high pressure rinses ( to the epic detriment of my shower ) Seeing your experiences has only increased my level of concern. Thanks for sharing.
Yea I’ve been cleaning my large piece for over an hour. Some holes and crack go up to 6 inches deep and I can see how some would leave plenty of clay/sediment behind.
I soaked for a day and then boiled my piece twice and scrubbed it three times, the amount of dirt that came off it was insane. I also ended up using a straw cleaner to scrub some of the holes after I found a hole blocked with dirt after the second boil.
After this video, I compared two orders I received and there is such a big difference between the two. After soaking, the one order is crumbly as it's drying in the air. For the other, it's much harder and I don't scratch any off when going over it with a brush. Another thing with this stuff is, it's much harder to snap off a thin edge.
I just purchased some dragon stone from a mom and pop petshop the other day. And just came across your old video about dragon stone making the tds go up… I hope it won’t bring up the ph as well. Anyways, I’m going to be using injected co2 and I have controsoil in the tank. It isn’t fully hardscaped and aquascaped yet. So what should I do? The fish I’m gonna have in the tank will be chili rasboras, green kubotai rasboras, Pygmy cories, a albino bristlenose pleco or a two hillstream loaches, and some blue dream shrimps. I thought the dragon stone would be inert and not raise ph at all.
Test it in a bucket for a week if you're concerned and test the water prior and after adding the stone. But plants. Co2 and substrate should counter act the small changes it could cause, anyhow. Best of luck!
I got some ohko dragon stone recently... from a reputable local store... and built my aquarium around the rock itself. It is beautiful bit the water itself woud up full of copper, murdering my snails and my shrimps. I keep testing the water and it isnt leeching a lot but it IS leeching. So be careful.
@@Fishtory Think I am going to get some high quality, moniter water quality and see what happens, then stock based on that, not losing a couple hundred dollars again
Very informative, thank you. Love your aquascape. That "U" shape path and surrounding rocks with plants comes together very nicely. How long have you been keeping fish? Any tips for aquascape design?
I have been keeping fish for 26 years off and on (breeding them since I was around 10 years old). And as for advice on aquascaping. Look up my videos on "iwagumi", "the golden ratio", and or "rule of thirds", aquascaping, or for my tank setup videos (there's a playlist for aquascaping even). Also I have a "10 tips and tricks" for aquascaping
So I'm new to the aquascaping scene, some setups just do purely elephant skin/seriyu stone only, how do they balance out the PH & all in the waters? Thanks !
They're almost completely neutral... sometimes elephant stone can have a slight effect on raising TDS 20 or 30 ppm and ph could become slightly more alkaline in some samples and sources of it
I've been splitting the batch I just got, and there's so much mud I can't imagine if I'd put them in whole. Gosh I hope they're inert enough. I was going to have a few corys in that tank and my water is hard and base enough already.
Usually it will raise tds 50 points over 6 months to year (even the good stuff)...but that's small enough it isnt significant unless you're doing caridina shrimp
Oh hi fishkeeper me of two years ago lol, a couple days ago I succumbed to a clearance box at PetSmart and here I am poking and scrubbing again. Did I ever have any issues with TDS with my thoroughly purged dragonstone? Nope, I clystered it pretty hard, my issue was trying to construct a *volcano* out of it- in a *Biorb* . A Biorb! 😅 (I have been watching advanced aquascapers apparently putting the muddiest, dirtiest ohko in their 10k show tanks and boggling, @FatherFish would probably tell us to wait till the mud settles and cap it with sand, but I don't think I'm confident enough to do anything but keep cleaning, and the mud water is at least going to my garden 🤷♀️).
A story: I had had my first Neocaridina shrimp tank for almost 8 months, and it's been a learning curve but I've finally got a ton of happy plants and a beautiful scape and thought I was doing great- but my shrimp still weren't doing well. Finally got a hardness tester: my tap water was at 10 degrees hardness (a little high but fine) but my tank was at 18 degrees, almost 320 PPM. I actually snapped at the first person to suggest that the dragon stone that made up my entire hardscape was causing it because I loved so much how the red rock contrasted with my blue shrimp. Now after doing more research (this video and others) I feel more than a little silly. I'm slowly trying to remove it and replace it with driftwood and inert stone, but so many of my anubias and java ferns are secured to bits of dragon stone that it's a process. When I started the aquarium I didn't even know the type of rocks mattered! It does! Don't be me! Check your rocks!
I hope that fixes it for you! Some water changes..little ones frequently, should also help knock that tds down. Ive done 50 or 60% changes before but my tap water is 20-30ppm so there's nothing in there to really shock the shrimp...most places , that big of a change is risky. Best of luck!
@@Fishtory Yeah I've been dipping a little out and replacing it with distilled water every day or so for a couple of weeks now! It's currently down from 18 to 13 degrees, and if I can get it down to 10 it's level with my tap water. At that point I'll watch and see if I have to remove the stone and re-attach the plants or if it'll maintain itself there.
I had purchased dragon stone from a couple different sources and when I received the batch of dragon stones from one of the sources the quality seemed to be off compared to the first seller. I think this might have helped me further understand what could possibly have been happening in my tank. I do 25-50% water changes weekly and like to check my filters to see if I'm getting close to having to clean them. The tank with the dragon stones (both sellers rocks are in the same tank) seem to be letting off orangish particles and getting into the filters where everything seems to be covered completely with a coat of slime that's dark and different then when the fish just poop or uneaten food makes it's way into the filter. I tried my best to feel the rocks and take out the softer ones that I strictly remember opening and thinking the quality wasnt there compared to the last couple batches I got from the other source. Plus I did a filter cleaning and a 50%water change. Added bacteria to make sure the bacteria colony wasnt disrupted by doing this, but do you think this should help? Taking out the stones I thought were disrupting my water colony and making sure all is clean in the filters plus the water change? I lost 2 african cichlids in past couple days and I think this was the cause. And I say this because I have had no problems with the tank or the fish's health until after that dragon stone purchase. Thank you for the good information in this video! Cheers!
So they let off clay and raise the tds ...even the good types...cichlids generally favor water with some tds...you may have dropped that tds by removing stones...you could add some crushed coral (1 cup per 10 gallons or so helps calcium etc)...if it was a west african river cichlid...they like more clean, low tds water and slightly acidic water generally speaking...so add some catapa leaves if you have kribs or something other than the lake cichlids...if you have the lake cichlids id add the coral or some crushed shells...and just keep up on 30% water changes a week for a bit... the bacteria is helpful if you lack bacteria completely, however it may be different than the exact strain you had, and it could have caused a slight battle between the bacterias...thus spiking ammonia, or nitrites...in the future, id leave a sponge in the tank hidden in a corner- so you can re-colonize any tank quickly by tossing that in a filter. Good luck! Sometimes waiting is the best policy
Did you properly clean them?! First you have to soak them in boiling water for an hour or two, clean them with an old toothbrush and a bottlepipe (ideally in a creek or river, in a source of running water, that isn't a sick - no mess that way and no clogged pipes), maybe repeat the cooked water step if there still are big chunks of mud in it. Cleaning one Stone the size of a football can easily take an hour of manual cleaning or longer!
Hey i got a little a trick that worked for me amazingly but before i tell you that. Let me ask you something because i have no tools to test the water parameters: A) if it does not bubble i reaction to vinegar then its safe to use with shrimps and etc? B) japanes has no reaction but the rest do? C) so the TDS that you saw is related to the minerals of the stone itself even if fully clean without dirt and soil even if does not have bubbles in contact with winger? Or the TDS reading is related to the stone that reacts with winger or TDS is related to the dirts that come on stone?
Wow I just checked my TDS after putting in 1 piece of dragon stone. My TDS is doubled. Very frustrating because I bought my dragonstone from Craigslist.
I just bought a piece of this type of stone myself and it ended up raising my tds by 30 in a 20 gallon designed for shrimp. My GH went up by 2 degrees and my KH by 1, even though the stone is nice and compact and mostly inert. Definitely won’t be using it for a shrimp tank again.
@@Fishtory Thanks for the concern! I just wanted to share my experience so that others are aware. This piece was scrubbed with a toothbrush and in a tank previously, so it should hopefully give others some caution.
Dragon stone needs serious washing before use. Like a few hours of poking all the clay out, spraying high pressure water in the holes, soaking and repeat many times until there is no clay left. Do this and there should be no issues but like I said its a lot of work. If all you do is rinse and a quick scrub/soak you will miss 80% of the clay inside the rock. You need to loosen the clay inside with a skewer or something like that then spray a garden hose with jet into the holes to get it out. Its amazing how much clay this stuff can hold, sometimes nearly half of what you buy is clay. After it has soaked for a few days and you start poking at it you realize how much clay there is that you thought was actually rock when it was dry.
Some forms can a little bit, but the japanese and chinese original stone quarries and they are just neutral clay. However, there are some on the market that are more grey to brown in color which have calcium carbonates in them and over time, ph can increase a little and the kg,gh and tds
Whew I was about to buy 30lbs of this stuff. Ugh. I'm setting up a 75 gallon and just bought sand and filters. Im thinking I want some type of Cichlid or Agaras. I think lol. I know I need to just get the tank up and get it cycling but I am thinking ahead. What type of rock should I buy? I liked the dragon stone but Seirya stone caught my eye too. I like the way if you slant it the lines almost go sideways, if that makes sense. I know your talking shrimp tank but I dont want any issues.
I highly recommend granite with quartz banding and inclusions (it allows you to show the grain, like ive done in some of my tanks.) However, dragonstone that is from southern China or Japan is okay...but over time water changes are needed... so if you have a local store, buy a tiny piece and place it in a bucket for a couple days and test the ph or TDS before and after... the problem is the market is flooded with silty, clay crumble.
@@Fishtory I'll have to check out the granite! I dont have a local fish store (closest one is over 2 hrs away, petco) but maybe I'll just buy 5lbs of the ones I like and soak and test all. I'm ok with it raising the ph slightly. Thanks for the reply :)
Yes, be very careful I recently bought some dragons on Amazon. It came so dirty. It took me four hours to scrub it all off and kind of take it out with a Fork I believe it to be real Japanese Trans Am. It just was not cleaned at all and the difference was insane. I bought a 10 pound bag and about 5 pounds of it was just dirt. Also had a smooth it down a little bit so whenever my fish, and it was extremely sharp and cut my hands apart. Be careful because it also stained my bathtub so I recommend washing it outside, but plan a day for this because it took me forever to do it just be aware out there I would not recommend putting this in a tank with catfish because he might hurt themselves on unless you send it down like I did to make it smoother.
Took 11 minutes to say that some types of Dragon stone might not be what it is. Clean and scrub the stone then test the values of the stone in a separate bucket. Job done and that took less than a minute.
Well it's honestly hard to know, but as a general rule, if you see it first hand and you can snap all sorts of pieces off or the bag has a bunch of dust, then it is more likely to be the less than ideal types. That being said, If you need some gh or tds, you can use that stuff and it slowly releases both
No one is going to sell you thoroughly cleaned ohko, you'd have to pay me $100 an hour to do it for anyone but myself 😄 I love the process, but not that much
John Zimm i did that, also vinegar, no reaction...its ph must be around 7.5 in guessing since no major reaction. But more so the TDS is what is the issue off this batch
The Secret History Living in Your Aquarium so the TDS is related to the stone it self even if fully clean without any dirt and soil or its related to the extra stuff that is attached to the stone?
heavy from-the-soul sigh. My PH shot through the roof overnight and trying to figure out what (brand new tank so no plants or fish at least). Tore it all down, I'm trying to figure out what it is. Tested the stagnant bucket with silt from my dragonstones and 8.0. I'm going to take some samples to the fish store to see what happened. Hopefully if it's the dragonstone they'll take it back; I know some people WANT to raise PH they may be able to sell it separate with a note it raises ph lol.
Bummer. You probably have pretty acidic water too, then. It should settle out eventually, but maybe soak it a week or two in a bucket with some leaves first. Best of luck
Just watch this, my tank already with dragon stone for almost a year with my tds often 110-115 . The stone easy to break, mean it can effect the ph? I check all ph everything in normal.
Do you think the imagitarium dragon rock, would raise pH for my betta or evem KH and GH? i am ordering them for PetCo mainly cause they are way cheaper than your standard fish store rocks.
No theirs seems to be fairly neutral. It may raise the TDS as clay or silt stones sort of dissolve slowly, but The stuff I've used from the big box stores, actually seems decent. Cheers!
The Secret History Living in Your Aquarium no problem! Early congrats on 1000 subs!! I'm nearing 500 on my channel. It's hard for me to believe I have that many. Lol.
My (reputable) LFS said dragon stone would be inert and not impact water parameters. I couldn’t figure out why my TDS kept rising/stayed at 200-280ppm. I kept adding in RO water and my pH kept lowering, but I thought it was bc my KH was 0, but didn’t account for the TDS. I’m going to remove the dragon stone. Mine is chalky and breaks apart easily. Must be bad dragon stone There are tiny little white things (sediments) getting bumped around from my filter outflow. I couldn’t figure out where it was coming from. Thought it was from too many minerals precipitating from my water/conditioner. My shrimp seem to be fine (except for pH swings), but my Pygmy cories seemed lethargic
The Chinese stuff, yes... it can be siltstone but the original seiryu years ago was a metamorphic rock 🪨 igneous with quartz crystalline banding... then they started using rock from china ans mongolia that looks the same but is alkali potentially. So thanks for pointing that out! Its true of the non japanese dragon stone too
Yes it can do that as well... hopefully they didn't just paint or dye it... I've seen that from China sadly. But it'll be obvious as the stone under it will be gray
Yeah, well my fish were in 182-258 prior... so jumping to over 620 at one point, I took the nuclear course and took out all substrate that was active, all dragon stone (clearly one of the types was falling apart even from the water change turbulence. So i drained it about 70% in all within 8 hours , now it's back to 217 ... but one of the rocks in a bowl of water sent the TDS from 27 tap to 900 as I shook it up a bit... where as the other sources changed maybe 40 TDS and no PH.... and like a steroid shot, my kribs were finally swimming together in the open about 3 hours later
Lol .believe it or not, a ton of professional scapers at competitive aquascaping events do that...and chicken wire /cement and resin or even fiber glass scaffold stones and wood in place
I took a small piece of all of them and soaked it in water in a jar (shook them a few seconds a couple times a day to simulate long term waves and wayer change currents...then kept them next to the radiator for 3 days and checked ph and tds. Not super scientific but it's always smart to keep new stone in a bucket for a week at temp and tale readings before and after if you can
it can, yes, some of that depends on ph and time....but mostly, if it's true Ohko ...which most is not, and then folks should really test If a metamorphic lime or silestone is highly reactive.... vinegar will bubble slightly on really intense pieces, mohs hardness test and an acid test is recommended.... but beyond that, I simply put it in my QT tank at temp for 3 days and measure the water before and after...that'll rule out extreme cases
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Watched this again as I have a bunch of dragon stone I bought cheap that has been sitting for a year on the shelf waiting for a "big" tank. Will be washing the heck out of it this week with a sprayer hose because I got a 40g last week:) I love that you have so many excellent videos to choose from. Next will be searching your channel to re-watch substrate and aquascape videos. Queuing them up to watch on my rainy days this week:)
Great video Alex. Very informative. I have been considering getting dragonstone, and now I have been having second thoughts about it. I will be very careful before I add any to my tanks!
Yeah if possible buy a lb and let it soak in a bucket 4 or 5 days and test the tds before and after. That seems to work well from all the people I have discussed it with (and myself). Thanks John!
@@Fishtory would testing with vinegar be enough?
Thank you for this invaluable information! I just bought some dragon stone for an aquascape I'm planning and I just bought a TDS meter that I'll definitely be using before I add any fish to it!
Right on! Just make sure it doesn't turn your acidic/neutral tank to hard alkaline 8.2 or 8.5 ph water ... tds is okay a bit, If you already have a decent amount or plan for it. Always better safe than sorry though! Best of luck!
For months my shrimp tank’s tds was always increasing and many shrimp died. I had a suspicion that it was the dragon stone and you confirmed it for me too. Thank you!
Well I wish you the best of luck in the future!
Ok, that explains why the kribs got sick. I remember coming across something where vinegar could be used to test rocks to see if they'd be aquarium safe. If you noticed a chemical reaction with the vinegar, then that rock could alter the water chemistry. That was a method used as a suggestion for unknown rocks found out in the wild. I suppose that could also be used to determine if it's the kind of dragon stone that's safe for aquariums or not.
So if it wont bubble its safe?
@@sirpfa yes if no reaction its safe
Very helpful as I'm in the process of working on an aquascape with several different types of stone and had questions about a piece of dragon stone I bought online.
Glad to hear it! And good luck!
After just buying dragon stone setup for new tank, I look for videos on how to clean and was happy to see you had content! Not so happy it is potentially negative. They look so awesome, I hope mine is ok. I have cleaned very thoroughly, can't believe how much clay and muck still poured out after soaking in hot water for an hour and then spraying with hose and soaking in hot water for an hour...etc. So much. Disturbing! Will do tests in bucket as you suggested before using them in my upcoming scape! Thankyou!
I think it spontaneously generates new mud. I've never seen anything like it.
Thanks for the info. Just found your channel and it is full of fascinating stuff. I wish I had found you earlier.
Welcome aboard man. Hopefully I can keep you entertained and all of us informed. I'm working on a lot of videos
Having problems with a purchased muddy dragon stone. Good content . Thanks
Hope it helps ...or at least lends a clue to the issue your having. Cheers
I just got 20 pounds of the CaribSea Exotica dragon stone via a promo at a popular big box store. While I can't deny it's beauty, I do have some concerns about dissolved solids after handling it and spending several painstaking hours with a nail, a pair of tweezers, and a toothbrush detailing it. Only to have it still dripping muck out of various holes after multiple high pressure rinses ( to the epic detriment of my shower ) Seeing your experiences has only increased my level of concern.
Thanks for sharing.
I'd let them soak in a bucket a week, and test it. It may be water soluble. It may not. But then you'll know
Just bought some dragon stones! hope won’t do any harm to my tank environment🤞🏽
Wow that’s really crazy thank you so much I will definitely keep a better eye on my rocks from now on out
Yea I’ve been cleaning my large piece for over an hour. Some holes and crack go up to 6 inches deep and I can see how some would leave plenty of clay/sediment behind.
I'm going to soak mine did a few years and then take a pressure washer to it, lol
I soaked for a day and then boiled my piece twice and scrubbed it three times, the amount of dirt that came off it was insane. I also ended up using a straw cleaner to scrub some of the holes after I found a hole blocked with dirt after the second boil.
After this video, I compared two orders I received and there is such a big difference between the two. After soaking, the one order is crumbly as it's drying in the air. For the other, it's much harder and I don't scratch any off when going over it with a brush. Another thing with this stuff is, it's much harder to snap off a thin edge.
Thanks for the further details!
I just purchased some dragon stone from a mom and pop petshop the other day. And just came across your old video about dragon stone making the tds go up… I hope it won’t bring up the ph as well. Anyways, I’m going to be using injected co2 and I have controsoil in the tank. It isn’t fully hardscaped and aquascaped yet. So what should I do? The fish I’m gonna have in the tank will be chili rasboras, green kubotai rasboras, Pygmy cories, a albino bristlenose pleco or a two hillstream loaches, and some blue dream shrimps. I thought the dragon stone would be inert and not raise ph at all.
Test it in a bucket for a week if you're concerned and test the water prior and after adding the stone. But plants. Co2 and substrate should counter act the small changes it could cause, anyhow. Best of luck!
I got some ohko dragon stone recently... from a reputable local store... and built my aquarium around the rock itself. It is beautiful bit the water itself woud up full of copper, murdering my snails and my shrimps. I keep testing the water and it isnt leeching a lot but it IS leeching. So be careful.
Whoa thats a bummer! They may have treated the stone with a wash of copper sulfate or something ... thanks for the heads up. Sorry though
Pretty sure I solved the mystery of the Dissapearing CRS colony! Tysm
Yay
@@Fishtory Think I am going to get some high quality, moniter water quality and see what happens, then stock based on that, not losing a couple hundred dollars again
Very informative, thank you.
Love your aquascape. That "U" shape path and surrounding rocks with plants comes together very nicely. How long have you been keeping fish? Any tips for aquascape design?
I have been keeping fish for 26 years off and on (breeding them since I was around 10 years old). And as for advice on aquascaping. Look up my videos on "iwagumi", "the golden ratio", and or "rule of thirds", aquascaping, or for my tank setup videos (there's a playlist for aquascaping even). Also I have a "10 tips and tricks" for aquascaping
So I'm new to the aquascaping scene, some setups just do purely elephant skin/seriyu stone only, how do they balance out the PH & all in the waters? Thanks !
They're almost completely neutral... sometimes elephant stone can have a slight effect on raising TDS 20 or 30 ppm and ph could become slightly more alkaline in some samples and sources of it
@@Fishtory So does that mean that it does not make a big difference in terms of water parameters?
I've been splitting the batch I just got, and there's so much mud I can't imagine if I'd put them in whole. Gosh I hope they're inert enough. I was going to have a few corys in that tank and my water is hard and base enough already.
Usually it will raise tds 50 points over 6 months to year (even the good stuff)...but that's small enough it isnt significant unless you're doing caridina shrimp
So would neos be alrite then?
Oh hi fishkeeper me of two years ago lol, a couple days ago I succumbed to a clearance box at PetSmart and here I am poking and scrubbing again. Did I ever have any issues with TDS with my thoroughly purged dragonstone? Nope, I clystered it pretty hard, my issue was trying to construct a *volcano* out of it- in a *Biorb* . A Biorb! 😅 (I have been watching advanced aquascapers apparently putting the muddiest, dirtiest ohko in their 10k show tanks and boggling, @FatherFish would probably tell us to wait till the mud settles and cap it with sand, but I don't think I'm confident enough to do anything but keep cleaning, and the mud water is at least going to my garden 🤷♀️).
A story: I had had my first Neocaridina shrimp tank for almost 8 months, and it's been a learning curve but I've finally got a ton of happy plants and a beautiful scape and thought I was doing great- but my shrimp still weren't doing well. Finally got a hardness tester: my tap water was at 10 degrees hardness (a little high but fine) but my tank was at 18 degrees, almost 320 PPM.
I actually snapped at the first person to suggest that the dragon stone that made up my entire hardscape was causing it because I loved so much how the red rock contrasted with my blue shrimp. Now after doing more research (this video and others) I feel more than a little silly.
I'm slowly trying to remove it and replace it with driftwood and inert stone, but so many of my anubias and java ferns are secured to bits of dragon stone that it's a process.
When I started the aquarium I didn't even know the type of rocks mattered! It does! Don't be me! Check your rocks!
I hope that fixes it for you! Some water changes..little ones frequently, should also help knock that tds down. Ive done 50 or 60% changes before but my tap water is 20-30ppm so there's nothing in there to really shock the shrimp...most places , that big of a change is risky.
Best of luck!
@@Fishtory Yeah I've been dipping a little out and replacing it with distilled water every day or so for a couple of weeks now! It's currently down from 18 to 13 degrees, and if I can get it down to 10 it's level with my tap water. At that point I'll watch and see if I have to remove the stone and re-attach the plants or if it'll maintain itself there.
I had purchased dragon stone from a couple different sources and when I received the batch of dragon stones from one of the sources the quality seemed to be off compared to the first seller. I think this might have helped me further understand what could possibly have been happening in my tank. I do 25-50% water changes weekly and like to check my filters to see if I'm getting close to having to clean them. The tank with the dragon stones (both sellers rocks are in the same tank) seem to be letting off orangish particles and getting into the filters where everything seems to be covered completely with a coat of slime that's dark and different then when the fish just poop or uneaten food makes it's way into the filter. I tried my best to feel the rocks and take out the softer ones that I strictly remember opening and thinking the quality wasnt there compared to the last couple batches I got from the other source. Plus I did a filter cleaning and a 50%water change. Added bacteria to make sure the bacteria colony wasnt disrupted by doing this, but do you think this should help? Taking out the stones I thought were disrupting my water colony and making sure all is clean in the filters plus the water change? I lost 2 african cichlids in past couple days and I think this was the cause. And I say this because I have had no problems with the tank or the fish's health until after that dragon stone purchase. Thank you for the good information in this video! Cheers!
So they let off clay and raise the tds ...even the good types...cichlids generally favor water with some tds...you may have dropped that tds by removing stones...you could add some crushed coral (1 cup per 10 gallons or so helps calcium etc)...if it was a west african river cichlid...they like more clean, low tds water and slightly acidic water generally speaking...so add some catapa leaves if you have kribs or something other than the lake cichlids...if you have the lake cichlids id add the coral or some crushed shells...and just keep up on 30% water changes a week for a bit... the bacteria is helpful if you lack bacteria completely, however it may be different than the exact strain you had, and it could have caused a slight battle between the bacterias...thus spiking ammonia, or nitrites...in the future, id leave a sponge in the tank hidden in a corner- so you can re-colonize any tank quickly by tossing that in a filter.
Good luck! Sometimes waiting is the best policy
Did you properly clean them?! First you have to soak them in boiling water for an hour or two, clean them with an old toothbrush and a bottlepipe (ideally in a creek or river, in a source of running water, that isn't a sick - no mess that way and no clogged pipes), maybe repeat the cooked water step if there still are big chunks of mud in it. Cleaning one Stone the size of a football can easily take an hour of manual cleaning or longer!
Hey i got a little a trick that worked for me amazingly but before i tell you that. Let me ask you something because i have no tools to test the water parameters:
A) if it does not bubble i reaction to vinegar then its safe to use with shrimps and etc?
B) japanes has no reaction but the rest do?
C) so the TDS that you saw is related to the minerals of the stone itself even if fully clean without dirt and soil even if does not have bubbles in contact with winger?
Or the TDS reading is related to the stone that reacts with winger or TDS is related to the dirts that come on stone?
Wow I just checked my TDS after putting in 1 piece of dragon stone. My TDS is doubled. Very frustrating because I bought my dragonstone from Craigslist.
Yeah .... its hard to know until you try the darn thing. I recommend the bucket of water for 3 days- test
I just bought a piece of this type of stone myself and it ended up raising my tds by 30 in a 20 gallon designed for shrimp. My GH went up by 2 degrees and my KH by 1, even though the stone is nice and compact and mostly inert. Definitely won’t be using it for a shrimp tank again.
Thanks for sharing the details my friend, but sorry that's a pain
@@Fishtory Thanks for the concern! I just wanted to share my experience so that others are aware. This piece was scrubbed with a toothbrush and in a tank previously, so it should hopefully give others some caution.
Dragon stone needs serious washing before use. Like a few hours of poking all the clay out, spraying high pressure water in the holes, soaking and repeat many times until there is no clay left. Do this and there should be no issues but like I said its a lot of work. If all you do is rinse and a quick scrub/soak you will miss 80% of the clay inside the rock. You need to loosen the clay inside with a skewer or something like that then spray a garden hose with jet into the holes to get it out. Its amazing how much clay this stuff can hold, sometimes nearly half of what you buy is clay. After it has soaked for a few days and you start poking at it you realize how much clay there is that you thought was actually rock when it was dry.
While I agree, the "rock" itself is actually just super dense clay also, it is not a crystalline matrix like stone
Do ypu know is dragon stone increase ph?
Some forms can a little bit, but the japanese and chinese original stone quarries and they are just neutral clay. However, there are some on the market that are more grey to brown in color which have calcium carbonates in them and over time, ph can increase a little and the kg,gh and tds
Did any of you guys actually take the time to clean their dragon stones?!
Have spent $200 dollars trying to mould dragon stone to mass produce the stone into a latex mould for a vivarium
Sounds awesome
Whew I was about to buy 30lbs of this stuff. Ugh. I'm setting up a 75 gallon and just bought sand and filters. Im thinking I want some type of Cichlid or Agaras. I think lol. I know I need to just get the tank up and get it cycling but I am thinking ahead. What type of rock should I buy? I liked the dragon stone but Seirya stone caught my eye too. I like the way if you slant it the lines almost go sideways, if that makes sense. I know your talking shrimp tank but I dont want any issues.
I highly recommend granite with quartz banding and inclusions (it allows you to show the grain, like ive done in some of my tanks.) However, dragonstone that is from southern China or Japan is okay...but over time water changes are needed... so if you have a local store, buy a tiny piece and place it in a bucket for a couple days and test the ph or TDS before and after... the problem is the market is flooded with silty, clay crumble.
@@Fishtory I'll have to check out the granite! I dont have a local fish store (closest one is over 2 hrs away, petco) but maybe I'll just buy 5lbs of the ones I like and soak and test all. I'm ok with it raising the ph slightly. Thanks for the reply :)
Yes, be very careful I recently bought some dragons on Amazon. It came so dirty. It took me four hours to scrub it all off and kind of take it out with a Fork I believe it to be real Japanese Trans Am. It just was not cleaned at all and the difference was insane. I bought a 10 pound bag and about 5 pounds of it was just dirt. Also had a smooth it down a little bit so whenever my fish, and it was extremely sharp and cut my hands apart. Be careful because it also stained my bathtub so I recommend washing it outside, but plan a day for this because it took me forever to do it just be aware out there I would not recommend putting this in a tank with catfish because he might hurt themselves on unless you send it down like I did to make it smoother.
Thanks for sharing.
Took 11 minutes to say that some types of Dragon stone might not be what it is. Clean and scrub the stone then test the values of the stone in a separate bucket.
Job done and that took less than a minute.
Yup but you didn't get any ad revenue (gotta get that .02 cents a view - ballin)
So what’s a good safe source to buy dragon stone ? I know they sell it at petco, I’ve looked online as well
Well it's honestly hard to know, but as a general rule, if you see it first hand and you can snap all sorts of pieces off or the bag has a bunch of dust, then it is more likely to be the less than ideal types.
That being said, If you need some gh or tds, you can use that stuff and it slowly releases both
No one is going to sell you thoroughly cleaned ohko, you'd have to pay me $100 an hour to do it for anyone but myself 😄 I love the process, but not that much
If you’ve been medicating the tank, wouldn’t that explain the increase in tds?
yes it would have, so I tested the stone in a bucket
@@Fishtory boss do akadama soil and the how the different types affect shrimp tanks ect.
@@talonabuser1072 It's pricey, so I was actually going to try writing them and see if they'd sponsor a video
Could you check your rocks with muriatic acid? If it bubbles then it's no good.
John Zimm i did that, also vinegar, no reaction...its ph must be around 7.5 in guessing since no major reaction. But more so the TDS is what is the issue off this batch
The Secret History Living in Your Aquarium so the TDS is related to the stone it self even if fully clean without any dirt and soil or its related to the extra stuff that is attached to the stone?
What brand of TDS monitor does everyone recommend?
I've been using Hone Forest TDS meter from Amazon and for the past 2 months and it's been pretty accurate for me
heavy from-the-soul sigh. My PH shot through the roof overnight and trying to figure out what (brand new tank so no plants or fish at least). Tore it all down, I'm trying to figure out what it is. Tested the stagnant bucket with silt from my dragonstones and 8.0. I'm going to take some samples to the fish store to see what happened. Hopefully if it's the dragonstone they'll take it back; I know some people WANT to raise PH they may be able to sell it separate with a note it raises ph lol.
If its not tap water... or a water additive like equilibrium by seachem... it could very well be the stone
I just bought some at petco and it started disolvin :/
Bummer. You probably have pretty acidic water too, then. It should settle out eventually, but maybe soak it a week or two in a bucket with some leaves first. Best of luck
good work.
Just watch this, my tank already with dragon stone for almost a year with my tds often 110-115 . The stone easy to break, mean it can effect the ph? I check all ph everything in normal.
Then you probably have the good quality stone that doesnt just disolve
No but if it's easy to turn to mud/ silt by rubbing it between your fingers or hands...then it likely will
Do you think the imagitarium dragon rock, would raise pH for my betta or evem KH and GH? i am ordering them for PetCo mainly cause they are way cheaper than your standard fish store rocks.
No theirs seems to be fairly neutral. It may raise the TDS as clay or silt stones sort of dissolve slowly, but The stuff I've used from the big box stores, actually seems decent. Cheers!
Great information! Thank you.
thank you for watching and liking it! We're near 1000 subs, pretty exciting for me. I appreciate every viewer!
The Secret History Living in Your Aquarium no problem! Early congrats on 1000 subs!! I'm nearing 500 on my channel. It's hard for me to believe I have that many. Lol.
My (reputable) LFS said dragon stone would be inert and not impact water parameters. I couldn’t figure out why my TDS kept rising/stayed at 200-280ppm. I kept adding in RO water and my pH kept lowering, but I thought it was bc my KH was 0, but didn’t account for the TDS. I’m going to remove the dragon stone. Mine is chalky and breaks apart easily. Must be bad dragon stone
There are tiny little white things (sediments) getting bumped around from my filter outflow. I couldn’t figure out where it was coming from. Thought it was from too many minerals precipitating from my water/conditioner. My shrimp seem to be fine (except for pH swings), but my Pygmy cories seemed lethargic
Seiryu Stone is Not inert it can change the water chemistry
The Chinese stuff, yes... it can be siltstone but the original seiryu years ago was a metamorphic rock 🪨 igneous with quartz crystalline banding... then they started using rock from china ans mongolia that looks the same but is alkali potentially. So thanks for pointing that out! Its true of the non japanese dragon stone too
Mine is discoloring my water
Yes it can do that as well... hopefully they didn't just paint or dye it... I've seen that from China sadly. But it'll be obvious as the stone under it will be gray
So where's the best place to get real dragonstone online?
It WAS lowes .. but I don't know anymore unfortunately
@@Fishtory I just took the hit and bought ADA ouko stone from a retailer. 10lbs for 80$ canadian
510 ppm oh wowwy could have been clay buildup... make sure not to change ppm by more than 100 every water change, rapid change can be harmful
Yeah, well my fish were in 182-258 prior... so jumping to over 620 at one point, I took the nuclear course and took out all substrate that was active, all dragon stone (clearly one of the types was falling apart even from the water change turbulence. So i drained it about 70% in all within 8 hours , now it's back to 217 ... but one of the rocks in a bowl of water sent the TDS from 27 tap to 900 as I shook it up a bit... where as the other sources changed maybe 40 TDS and no PH.... and like a steroid shot, my kribs were finally swimming together in the open about 3 hours later
Lets epoxy resin coat the damn rocks 😂
Lol .believe it or not, a ton of professional scapers at competitive aquascaping events do that...and chicken wire /cement and resin or even fiber glass scaffold stones and wood in place
So how did you figure out which ones were bad and which ones could stay?
I took a small piece of all of them and soaked it in water in a jar (shook them a few seconds a couple times a day to simulate long term waves and wayer change currents...then kept them next to the radiator for 3 days and checked ph and tds. Not super scientific but it's always smart to keep new stone in a bucket for a week at temp and tale readings before and after if you can
The Secret History Living in Your Aquarium so did you finally realise which was safe and which not?
Am I the only one who hears Ryan Reynolds voice?
People have said that 4x this week haha. So thanks? I'll take it as a win
ohko stone will raise hardness to the water
it can, yes, some of that depends on ph and time....but mostly, if it's true Ohko ...which most is not, and then folks should really test If a metamorphic lime or silestone is highly reactive.... vinegar will bubble slightly on really intense pieces, mohs hardness test and an acid test is recommended.... but beyond that, I simply put it in my QT tank at temp for 3 days and measure the water before and after...that'll rule out extreme cases
The Secret History Living in Your Aquarium so if it bubbles its bad right?
For the algorithm!
wow :P